Indo-UK News and Discussion - April 2013

disha · Post by **disha** » 25 Jun 2016 09:12

Avarachan wrote: By the way, with respect to India and China, I think the Anglo-Americans are up to their old tricks. I think they want to engineer war between both countries as a way of eliminating them as rivals to the West. That's why there must not be any compromise regarding CISMOA.

If that is the case., then Chinese have been really stupid to fall into that trap! That is they have not learnt from history.

Avarachan · Post by **Avarachan** » 25 Jun 2016 09:27

Yes, China is being stupid with the NSG, etc.

It is increasingly clear that the Chinese have been stupid regarding their economic model. Intellectual-property theft and copycat manufacturing will only take a country so far. No country can lead that way. But that is exactly what China has done, and I don't think they'll be able make a successful transition away from that.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 25 Jun 2016 10:22

Rahul Goma Phulore ‏@missingfaktor Jun 21 Kingston upon Thames, London

Brexit. Grexit. Departugal. Italeave. Fruckoff. Czechout. Oustria. Finish. Slovakout. Latervia. Byegium.

12,695 retweets 12,145 likes

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 25 Jun 2016 10:45

Neela · Post by **Neela** » 25 Jun 2016 11:33

srin wrote:I hear that Scotland can re-vote on independence and perhaps Norther Ireland as well. I think we should pay them a few billion to purchase BIOT - the most important Brit real estate that we care about.

Scots voted overwhelmingly to stay with EU.
Now they are saying they've been dragged out against their will.
A second Scottish independence referendum appears to now be inevitable.

Jean-Claude Junckers , EU commission president says he cannot wait for October and wants to start negotiating the exit now.
This will force Scotland's hand.

Things might unravel quite quickly.

ldev · Post by **ldev** » 25 Jun 2016 11:33

KLP Dubey wrote:
UlanBatori wrote:Quite the opposite. BREXIT happened too soon. Had this happened in the 3rd week of October, Trump may have ridden the wave of excitement about Liberation From PC Bureaucratic Oppression.
Now there are 5 terrible months of news to come.
I must agree with the Mongol shaman Enqyubaatar on this one. The next few months will scare the shizzle outta ordinary peeps in the western world. Billary will suddenly appear a much safer bet than a Trump presidency.

The US elections are in November. The UK will not even begin to negotiate anything until there is a new PM which is likely only in October. So nothing much will happen between now and the US elections other than that people will have time to get used to it. In any event after this vote the formal British decision to leave will have to come via a resolution in the British Parliament invoking Article 50 of the Treaty of Lisbon. I dont see this process even beginning to happen until around the US elections. So Trump has a real chance of milking this for the rest of the campaign.

rahulm · Post by **rahulm** » 25 Jun 2016 11:35

I have not studied the EU treaty but if there is no time limit to trigger Article 50, then potentially, EU statements notwithstanding, UK could just delay invoking article 50 or if If the UK parliament does not ratify or delay - That would make it very interesting.

Maybe, delay invoking Article 50 for a a year or so and then another referendum that asks "Do you still support Brexit if it means the splitting of the UK.?". i suspect, people will vote for territorial integrity.

For all their faults, historically, the Brits have a history of safe guarding their interests quite successfully. They are not infallible but I wouldn't write them off so quickly. This vote took everybody by surprise including the leavers.

ldev · Post by **ldev** » 25 Jun 2016 11:37

rahulm wrote:I have not studied the EU treaty but if there is no time limit to trigger Article 50, then potentially, EU statements notwithstanding, UK could just delay invoking article 50.That would make it very interesting

Was reading somewhere that the process is allowed to take upto 2 years. And the Brits are already saying that given the complexities of resolving post exit trade/service agreements, rights of other citizens already resident in each other's countries, that this process in this case may take more than 2 years.

SanjayC · Post by **SanjayC** » 25 Jun 2016 11:53

disha wrote:
Avarachan wrote: By the way, with respect to India and China, I think the Anglo-Americans are up to their old tricks. I think they want to engineer war between both countries as a way of eliminating them as rivals to the West. That's why there must not be any compromise regarding CISMOA.
If that is the case., then Chinese have been really stupid to fall into that trap! That is they have not learnt from history.

Chinese think differently. They want to be only one in the world as rivals to the West. They don't want to share that honor with India. China is perfectly OK to crush India and become the only Eastern superpower to rival the Goras. This is their thinking. They have a dog in the manger attitude, and a superiority complex. Sooner or later, India will have to go to war with China to cure Chinese of their attitude permanently. Chinese won't change their behaviour towards India till they get a bloody nose.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 25 Jun 2016 12:21

As a lifelong English European, this is the biggest defeat of my political life: Timothy Garton Ash

nawabs · Post by **nawabs** » 25 Jun 2016 14:38

The Int'l Spectator ‏@intlspectator 33m33 minutes ago

BREAKING: Petition to London's Mayor Sadiq Khan to 'declare London independent and apply to join the EU' crossed 100,000 signatures

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 25 Jun 2016 16:15

Negotiating London is out of question, even Labour party leaders have declared.

Lisa · Post by **Lisa** » 25 Jun 2016 16:47

Singha wrote:do uk citizens get free movement and work without visa in EU? but not other way around ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_o ... pean_Union

The concept of a national citizenship for a worker in the EU has ceased to exist, ie you may go, live, work and accrue benefits from anywhere in the EU. This flexibility has lead to over a million new residents in the UK, and it has become overnight, the responsibility of the UK, to accommodate all their social obligations, both with regards to benefits and services, eg, school, health, etc. The structures cannot cope.

They have by this input also destroyed low cost labour inflation that has had a very significant impact upon lower rung incomes.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 25 Jun 2016 16:49

UK is a past master at keeping tax havens and money laundering facilities like channel islands and city of london ticking over smoothly within the beehive but economically beyond the justice they proclaim from the rooftoops. something similar could be arranged for EU access.

Scottish PM today:

As I said yesterday, a second independence referendum is clearly an option that requires to be on the table and is very much on the table," Sturgeon said in Edinburgh, as quoted by Sky News channel.

Pro-EU rallies held throughout Scotland as rest of the UK votes for Brexit

She added that, "steps will be taken now to ensure that the necessary legislation is in place. Cabinet this morning formally agreed that work."
The Scottish minister underscored that her government will start discussions with EU nations in order to "protect Scotland's place" in the European Union.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 25 Jun 2016 17:06

^^^^^^^

She is going to have a big jehadi migration problem, if she provides free access to europe.

And the queen of England, cut off from her scottish estates??

eklavya · Post by **eklavya** » 25 Jun 2016 17:14

The Scots will have to negotiate accession to the EU after they split from the UK. One question is if all this happens sequentially (Brexit, break-up of the U.K., Scots accession to the EU), all of which could take a few years, or simulataneously. The issue for the Scots is that even if they leave the UK, there is no certainty that Spain will allow them to join the EU, as Spain is quite worried about Catalan and Basque separatism. Scotland outside the UK and the EU at $50/bbl would have it challenges. At $70-80+/bbl, they could take it in their stride.

gakakkad · Post by **gakakkad** » 25 Jun 2016 17:23

nawabs wrote:The Int'l Spectator ‏@intlspectator 33m33 minutes ago

BREAKING: Petition to London's Mayor Sadiq Khan to 'declare London independent and apply to join the EU' crossed 100,000 signatures

IndraD wrote: Negotiating London is out of question, even Labour party leaders have declared.

schadenfreude.... the erstwhile global trouble maker is broken into bits and pieces and now even has to fight for its own capital...

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 25 Jun 2016 17:37

the petition to have a 2nd referendum has now crossed 1m signatures (in 24 hrs!)

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 25 Jun 2016 18:00

Lalmohan wrote:the petition to have a 2nd referendum has now crossed 1m signatures (in 24 hrs!)

Is the sun setting on their bloody empire or what??

more like the death throes onlee

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 25 Jun 2016 18:03

Brexit gives India the break to hunt for new opportunities in UK.

UKIP (UK Independent Party) leader Nigel Farage is anyone to go by, Indians might find the UK more welcoming . In a recent interview he was quoted as saying, "I have to confess I do have a slight preference. I do think, naturally, that people from India and Australia are in some ways more likely to speak English, understand common law and have a connection with this country than some people that come perhaps from countries that haven't fully recovered from being behind the Iron Curtain."

Even Farage does not dare to talk about the Malsi virus carrying parasites in the UK even if they do not believe in common law and do not have a connection with the value system in Bartania.

srin · Post by **srin** » 25 Jun 2016 18:03

Mind boggling that a simple majority was enough to declare winner and just two choices. For something of this magnitude and esp with a PM who supported the "remain", you'd expect that winning criteria would be two-thirds majority and also more "grey" choices to split the opposition votes.

For this reason alone, the PM deserved to resign.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 25 Jun 2016 18:07

As someone said in the case of the California judge who gave a 6mo probation to the wasp Stanford rapist, Petitions have news and aggravation value, but no legal force.

However, this is interesting:

If the UK parliament does not ratify or delay

Suppose they have 10M signatures on this petition, plus the Londonistan, Scotchistan and NEireistan secession petitions, what does the Parliament have to lose by voting STAY, or not ratifying at all? They have everything to lose by ratifying.

I assume that rural England does not have an overwhelming majority. Trouble with the Referendum is that the Don't Cares don't vote - which significantly affects the STAY vote because those are the Ejjikated Self-Important Pompous Asses. The Angry Englander would have gone and voted LEAVE.

In Parliament, however, all are represented, and u can bet the Chief Whip will whip their Honorable butts if they don't vote.

Question then is: Will EU give them the middle finger? Can they afford to? If u were a German executive of EU and u saw that by accommodating Scotchstan and NEirestan u can in one little push, break the long-hated UNITED queendom - what would u do? Lets see now.. I gotta think about it - 4 a microsecond...

Deutschland Uber Alles! Heil 2 da Fourth Reich!

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 25 Jun 2016 18:28

^^
Numbers in Parliament must not be that simple. Because if they were, all the PM had to do was call a round of general elections. Which would then provide justification for the new Parliament to do something different as the wishes of the people had been tested again.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 25 Jun 2016 18:31

You can have as man referendums as you want, it is going to be Brexit. London is over 50% migrants so such a churning is expected.

In other news, France may not stop migrants from Calais to moving into UK http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... l#comments

Several hotels across Europe refuse to swap Pound for local currency leading to chaos

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 25 Jun 2016 18:48

Wilbur Ross is unlikely to pursue a takeover of Tata Steel's UK business in the wake of the EU referendum

http://news.sky.com/story/1717499/tata- ... ver-brexit

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 25 Jun 2016 18:58

this is a good read on how the younger better educated brits feel
I want my country back

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 25 Jun 2016 19:00

Vipul wrote:
Even Farage does not dare to talk about the Malsi virus carrying parasites in the UK even if they do not believe in common law and do not have a connection with the value system in Bartania.

the jihadi problem is indeed talked about but in round about ways. the 'indians are ok its the others' line is just BS. fascists end up coming after everyone.. remember what bonhofer said about the nazis

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 25 Jun 2016 19:03

yakherdersan

ratification by parliament will be the most interesting horse race on the steppe this year. as you say, many a thing can happen between now and then...

baris jonsonivich doesn't want to be the hero of independence din and then be the villain of the uk breakup

make no mistake - he and gove have just realised that they are sitting on top of the tiger, there is a big uh-oh moment going on here

re ze germans - they are the most enthusiastic proponents of the european project. they love the brits and are feeling very very rejected at the moment. merkel will now be the key player here. unlike france and holland where lots of people want out, the germans want in in in and more in. they would rather hug and kiss than give ungli

rgosain · Post by **rgosain** » 25 Jun 2016 19:23

Many Britons are not convinced that the EU freedom of movement benefits them as there are many hurdles placed in their paths by the continental authorities. For instance many European european employers demand that skilled traders, hairdressers and mechanics from the UK show paper-based qualifications as a way of protecting local markets. This effect is felt by many non-white UK citizens travelling and working in the EU, who are subjected to onerous questioning by EU police or immigration. For EU citizens travelling to the UK to work and settle there are no such hurdles.

Sad to see Sadiq Khan trying to carve out an enclave around his london fiefdom (shades of Hyderabad).

Finally one of the unsung heroes of the Brexit campaign, is Barack Obama who chose to lecture the UK population on the virtues of diversity, tolerance and taqiyaa whilst standing in front a hand-picked hijab attired audience. This had the effect of galvanising swathes of the non-muslim British population of all ethnicities to vote leave. This is indeed karma for his lectures to India on tolerance.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... eorge.html

gakakkad · Post by **gakakkad** » 25 Jun 2016 19:35

>>In other news, France may not stop migrants from Calais to moving into UK

france seems to be showing its centuries old animosity with the brits...their inaction against the ruskies and now letting refuges go to uq...

JwalaMukhi · Post by **JwalaMukhi** » 25 Jun 2016 19:37

EU should respect the wishes of UK and be gracious in its acceptance. EU should expel UK and help the situation stabilize, so EU can concentrate on working all important EU constituents. It cannot be held hostage to the drama created due to UK. Wish them well and move on. Alhough it is fun to watch rudaali rhona articles, as to second guessing the wisdom of UK voters.
But show must go on. EU has to march on ASAP. How fast can EU expel UK?

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 25 Jun 2016 19:45

eklavya wrote:The Scots will have to negotiate accession to the EU after they split from the UK. One question is if all this happens sequentially (Brexit, break-up of the U.K., Scots accession to the EU), all of which could take a few years, or simulataneously. The issue for the Scots is that even if they leave the UK, there is no certainty that Spain will allow them to join the EU, as Spain is quite worried about Catalan and Basque separatism. Scotland outside the UK and the EU at $50/bbl would have it challenges. At $70-80+/bbl, they could take it in their stride.

The Spaniards had an issue with the earlier Scottish referendum because of parallels to Catalan/Basque separatism. Therefore they refuse to support admission to any nation that split off from a current EU member.

Guess what just happened ? UK quit as a member, so that problem no longer applies. Scotland can therefore theoretically gain quick admission as a successor state to UK within EU. Even Spain does not want to encourage countries leaving EU.

Also, regarding Article 50, it's not necessarily upto UK alone to decide. While UK wants to wait until October, none of the main EU countries want to wait so long. They can also force exit proceedings sooner.

nirav · Post by **nirav** » 25 Jun 2016 19:51

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36618317

EU telling UK, chal nikal.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 25 Jun 2016 19:55

JwalaMukhi wrote:EU should respect the wishes of UK and be gracious in its acceptance. EU should expel UK and help the situation stabilize, so EU can concentrate on working all important EU constituents. It cannot be held hostage to the drama created due to UK. Wish them well and move on. Alhough it is fun to watch rudaali rhona articles, as to second guessing the wisdom of UK voters.
But show must go on. EU has to march on ASAP. How fast can EU expel UK?

looking at the panicked new signature campaigns going on for a re referendum or for london to join the UU separately, it looks like the leaves never thought that they would make it and just wanted to throw a good scare into their recalcitrant politicians and get them to legislate on some of the important things bothering them.

It is a nightmare scenario for them now. The horrible implications of the leave vote is just now beginning to sink in and they really do not know what to do. Of course, there are some die hard leaves who are rejoicing but they don't have much to lose. The older leaves are in real danger of uncertainty in their placid lives and and the prospect of taking the bigger hit in their sunset years is appalling to them, to say the least.

The virulent hostility of the Europeans is rising by the minute and that is another big factor.

rsingh · Post by **rsingh** » 25 Jun 2016 19:56

If they are so happy to be out of mess then why cry to come back?
-Petition for second referendum........EU says big NO
-Delaying tactics by UK (till Oct blabla)..........EU says NO do it NOW!
-Scots willing to go out
-Pound taking hit not EURO
-UK rating -IVE, Not Euro
-All those talks of many countries willing to be out of EU are false stories planted by UK newspapers to justify their action. Right groups are in every country. It is not a new phenomena. They can make noise but Europeans are educated people they make smart choice. So sorry UK nobody is buying this on continent except some free tabloids.
- False information about UK's contribution to EU. actually it got lot more. Agricultural subsidy of 2 billion pound /year since 1982. UK was poor at that time and EC decided to help them. How many of you know that Northern Ireland's reconstruction was funded by EU (most of it). UK never talks about this.
-City of London is going to be the biggest looser. Lot of MNs are going to shit to continent.
In all mood here in Brusselabad is that UK is in mess because of its inflated ego. DU leaders are relieved and happy to do away with noisemakers;

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 25 Jun 2016 20:01

I am followed by a UKIP leader on twitter who actively campaigned for out and I asked him & Farage last night if they are prepared for contingency plan to retain Scot & prevent UK disintegration, he did not respond when earlier he used to respond quickly.

JwalaMukhi · Post by **JwalaMukhi** » 25 Jun 2016 20:04

It is like under-age yob gets married in a hurry.
Proclaims triple-talaq.
Again wants sugar daddy to keep the marriage intact.
One way or the other, if under-age yob wants to be in the marriage (perceived abusive), it will be treated as demented juvenile if sugar daddy relents in the partnership. Sigh! the stiff upper lip.

rsingh · Post by **rsingh** » 25 Jun 2016 20:04

chetak wrote:
JwalaMukhi wrote:EU should respect the wishes of UK and be gracious in its acceptance. EU should expel UK and help the situation stabilize, so EU can concentrate on working all important EU constituents. It cannot be held hostage to the drama created due to UK. Wish them well and move on. Alhough it is fun to watch rudaali rhona articles, as to second guessing the wisdom of UK voters.
But show must go on. EU has to march on ASAP. How fast can EU expel UK?
looking at the panicked new signature campaigns going on for a re referendum or for london to join the UU separately, it looks like the leaves never thought that they would make it and just wanted to throw a good scare into their recalcitrant politicians and get them to legislate on some of the important things bothering them.

It is a nightmare scenario for them now. The horrible implications of the leave vote is just now beginning to sink in and they really do not know what to do. Of course, there are some die hard leaves who are rejoicing but they don't have much to lose. The older leaves are in real danger of uncertainty in their placid lives and and the prospect of taking the bigger hit in their sunset years is appalling to them, to say the least.

The virulent hostility of the Europeans is rising by the minute and that is another big factor.

No Saar. Not the people. It was UK govt's tactic to arm -twist EU in order to extract concessions. We Indian may think they have ruled the world and they are right but old Europe has completely other view. EU leaders were waiting for this opportunity. NO going back. Under any circumstances. They are happy to get rid of UK.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 25 Jun 2016 20:10

Sadiq Khan is in no position to negotiate referendum in fact London mayor has very limited role:

Changing London for the better
Setting the vision for London
Setting budgets to realise his vision
Working in partnership to improve the capital
Championing London and Londoners

Not long back Cameroon was pissed about Boris and said on TV: Let him (mayor) come around with a begging bowl (budget) and he will be shown his position.

KLP Dubey · Post by **KLP Dubey** » 25 Jun 2016 20:23

ldev wrote:The US elections are in November. The UK will not even begin to negotiate anything until there is a new PM which is likely only in October.

The UK is no "laat sahib" to decide when to start negotiating. The EU leadership is planning to move forward to get rid of them ASAP....or so it seems. There will be lots of rhetoric, political intrigues, economic scares, etc. Aam aadmi of the western world will be spooked.