Indo-UK News and Discussion - April 2013

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 25 Jun 2016 20:30

these posters were used by UKIP to vote out, now they accept it was a mistake.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/matthewchampio ... .bsaxzeAdx

UKIP back tracks on vote out promises one after another

It appears most of the money paid to EU as claimed by Farage came back to UK from EU for research & advanced studies.

sudarshan · Post by **sudarshan** » 25 Jun 2016 20:37

If the EU moves rapidly to kick the UK out, we're looking at a Soviet Union style collapse of the UK. If it's more long-drawn, it will be more like Yugoslavia. But break-up seems highly likely.

Looks like some areas of N. Ireland actually voted to leave, but the entire region was lumped into the remain category.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 25 Jun 2016 20:38

Brian Klaas ‏@brianklaas 2h2 hours ago
#Brexit turnout data for young people.

18-24: 36%
25-34: 58%

Turnout total: 72%

Elections are won by those that show up.

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 25 Jun 2016 20:42

How fast does the EU breakup - what will be the next country to leave ?

I wonder how much additional contribution Germany can make given they couldn't manage relief for Greece.

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 25 Jun 2016 20:45

now they accept it was a mistake.
..
UKIP back tracks on vote out promises one after another

But the UK's PM had to resign! The Europeans are supposed to have brought order in bad bad heathen pagan world and the Sun never set on the empire for quite a while.. and all that!

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 25 Jun 2016 20:47

vera_k wrote:How fast does the EU breakup - what will be the next country to leave ?

I wonder how much additional contribution Germany can make given they couldn't manage relief for Greece.

Not couldn't but didn't.

Why would the germans pay for some free loading, ouzo swilling blowhards who think that they are by right, freely entitled to other people's money??

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 25 Jun 2016 21:02

Exactly. That indicates that desire for the EU project is waning in Germany itself.

SaraLax · Post by **SaraLax** » 25 Jun 2016 21:05

Indian Exporters getting hit by BREXIT ... but should be able to recover once currency markets stabilize

Britain’s decision to leave European Union following a referendum, is leaving the garment exporters from Tirupur knitwear cluster with the possibilities of facing losses due to the consequent emergence of currency volatility.

The currency volatility comes mainly as knee-jerk reactions to the decision of UK to quit.

On Friday, the British pound plummeted by more than 10 per cent within six hours on the concerns that severing ties with the EU would have a cascading effect on the UK economy.

“Presently, around Rs. 2,000 crore worth of garments are exported per annum from Tirupur to Britain. Losses will be suffered on the orders that are now in the process of execution/delivery since many of the garment exporters have not opted for forward contracts”, pointed out T.R. Vijayakumar, who exports garments to UK, and also the current vice-chairman of Confederation of Indian Industry (Tirupur district council)..
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“They have not been hedging much till now when comes to the trade in British Pound as it was steadier."
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ricky_v · Post by **ricky_v** » 25 Jun 2016 21:12

on the topic being discussed about jews being behind the destruction/subversion of white mores, many identifycaudenhove kalergi as a key member.
On his views of race:

The man of the future will be of mixed race. The races and classes of today will gradually disappear due to the elimination of space, time, and prejudice. The Eurasian-negroid race of the future, similar in appearance to the Ancient Egyptians, will replace the current diversity of peoples and the diversity of individuals. Instead of destroying European Judaism, Europe, against her will, refined and educated this people, driving them to their future status as a leading nation through this artificial evolutionary process. It’s not surprising that the people that escaped from the Ghetto-Prison, became the spiritual nobility of Europe. Thus, the compassionate care given by Europe created a new breed of aristocrats. This happened when the European feudal aristocracy crashed because of the emancipation of the Jews [due to the actions taken by the French Revolution]

There is an award in his honour given to entities furthering the cause of tighter integration.
Interesting fact from wiki regarding his nobel peace prize nominations:

Nobel Peace Prize nominee in 42 nominations, known by 1963 so far.[64] 1964–1972 period is still concealed.

nawabs · Post by **nawabs** » 25 Jun 2016 21:13

rsingh wrote:If they are so happy to be out of mess then why cry to come back?
-Petition for second referendum........EU says big NO

Any link for this?

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 25 Jun 2016 21:19

SaraLax wrote:Indian Exporters getting hit by BREXIT ... but should be able to recover once currency markets stabilize

These kinds of articles are quite silly actually. It's been one day. Everyone with any sort of economic stake in the global world has been hit. That's to be expected - there was a brainless economic soosai by one major economy that the global economy did not expect. It'll take some time for dust to settle. Doesn't really affect us long term. The UK was important because they were a major EU gateway for us. That's no longer true. We should instead engage Scotland and NI+Ireland as EU gateways. England can go back to being the little guy who walked away. It's entirely a question of how much further self inflicted harm the UK will cause itself, having accidentally stabbed itself in the gut with a knife on a dare.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 25 Jun 2016 21:23

nawabs wrote:
rsingh wrote:If they are so happy to be out of mess then why cry to come back?
-Petition for second referendum........EU says big NO
Any link for this?

NewsUK
EU referendum: No chance of a second referendum, says Britain's top elections expert
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/eu-re ... 80921.html

nawabs · Post by **nawabs** » 25 Jun 2016 21:27

^ Thanks.

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 25 Jun 2016 21:35

Now it is understandable why EU did not go all out QE when US was doing it. If they went all out and ran out of gun powder, this UK machination (which they may have suspected from get go) would have been fatal in the extreme.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 25 Jun 2016 21:49

Great Britain has become Little England says Alexander Stubb, former EU Finance chief. On Bloomberg news

nawabs · Post by **nawabs** » 25 Jun 2016 21:52

Curtis seems to have added further :

Curtice added: "The only way a second referendum will take place is if in the intervening period before we actually exit, a general election is held and a poll shows that people want to reverse the decision of Britain leaving the EU.

In that scenario, the party in the opposition could demand a second referendum. Otherwise, it's not happening."

rsingh · Post by **rsingh** » 25 Jun 2016 21:54

It is funny. You can have 2nd or third referendum until you get desired result. It is not done. What kind of joke it is. Never Never Never .

rsingh · Post by **rsingh** » 25 Jun 2016 21:56

nawabs wrote:Curtis seems to have added further :
Curtice added: "The only way a second referendum will take place is if in the intervening period before we actually exit, a general election is held and a poll shows that people want to reverse the decision of Britain leaving the EU.

In that scenario, the party in the opposition could demand a second referendum. Otherwise, it's not happening."

Baap ka maal hei ? EU doesn't care about internal politics. UK ha as PM and he has to decide quickly. Uncertainty is not good for business. Nobody is going to wait for Lords here.

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 25 Jun 2016 22:04

Satya_anveshi wrote:Now it is understandable why EU did not go all out QE when US was doing it. If they went all out and ran out of gun powder, this UK machination (which they may have suspected from get go) would have been fatal in the extreme.

That's not it. The EU doesn't have the underpinnings that nation states have. There is therefore not as much a sense of shared responsibility.

Europe's QE quandary

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 25 Jun 2016 22:07

Why is D KMoron staying until Oct and not leaving now? After proving himself to be a pappu equivalent of UK, what good is he going to do to UK in the interim or is UK devoid of any leader with greater intellect than their pappu equivalent?

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 25 Jun 2016 22:28

vera_k wrote:That's not it. The EU doesn't have the underpinnings that nation states have. There is therefore not as much a sense of shared responsibility.

But that did not stop them from recent QE launch of significant proportion ($1.3T) and they are (and ready to) buying junk rated Greece bonds as part of that program. So the emotional part of shared responsibility is overcome by the monitoring program as their collective fates are tied to the recovery (or at least not going down the recessionary path).

My pt was the timing of EU QE (with the US QE) and the extent of the QE.

eklavya · Post by **eklavya** » 25 Jun 2016 23:03

Suraj wrote:
eklavya wrote:The Scots will have to negotiate accession to the EU after they split from the UK. One question is if all this happens sequentially (Brexit, break-up of the U.K., Scots accession to the EU), all of which could take a few years, or simulataneously. The issue for the Scots is that even if they leave the UK, there is no certainty that Spain will allow them to join the EU, as Spain is quite worried about Catalan and Basque separatism. Scotland outside the UK and the EU at $50/bbl would have it challenges. At $70-80+/bbl, they could take it in their stride.
The Spaniards had an issue with the earlier Scottish referendum because of parallels to Catalan/Basque separatism. Therefore they refuse to support admission to any nation that split off from a current EU member.

Guess what just happened ? UK quit as a member, so that problem no longer applies. Scotland can therefore theoretically gain quick admission as a successor state to UK within EU. Even Spain does not want to encourage countries leaving EU.

Also, regarding Article 50, it's not necessarily upto UK alone to decide. While UK wants to wait until October, none of the main EU countries want to wait so long. They can also force exit proceedings sooner.

Under which provision can the EU force the exit proceedings sooner than October? In any case, Angela Merkel is not in favour of a nasty or a hasty exit.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36630326

Brexit: Merkel says 'no need to be nasty' in leaving talks

Angela Merkel: "No need to be particularly nasty"
German Chancellor Angela Merkel has said the European Union has "no need to be particularly nasty in any way" in the negotiations with Britain about its exit from the bloc.

She insisted that deterring other countries from leaving the EU should not be a priority in the talks.

And she added she was not in favour of pushing for a speedy withdrawal.

Britain narrowly voted to end its membership in a historic referendum last Thursday.

Mrs Merkel was speaking after several EU foreign ministers - including Germany's - had urged Britain to quickly implement its exit.

"It shouldn't take forever, that's right, but I would not fight for a short timeframe," she said.

She added that she was seeking an "objective, good" climate in the talks with Britain, which "must be conducted properly".

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 25 Jun 2016 23:07

ramana wrote:Great Britain has become Little England says Alexander Stubb, former EU Finance chief. On Bloomberg news

This was the Britain what it was before they entered Indian subcontinent

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 26 Jun 2016 00:10

eklavya wrote:Under which provision can the EU force the exit proceedings sooner than October? In any case, Angela Merkel is not in favour of a nasty or a hasty exit.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36630326

Technically, UK has to initiate Article 50 proceedings. In real life, they can't sit around and wait at their convenience because they're the dog that chased the car and the car stopped without warning. They do not have the luxury of sitting back to contemplate the unexpected situation over the course of weeks or months.

What happens in real life is all the financial entities who account for 15% of UK GDP in the services sector want to know right away what a timeline will be. The EU wants to know right away, so France, Germany etc can plan what to tell their electorates in the elections due there within the next year or so. EU have no patience anymore, and the UK-EU engagement was always a tenuous one. Frankfurt and Paris want all the financial business London gets from their EU passport, which will soon be revoked. We're talking hundreds of billions, if not trillions, in money. What Merkel says and what they do are different matters. Clearly they want to ensure UK-German trade remains good. But France is not on the same bus, and will be more punitive.

They're not going to sit around patiently for 4 months while BoJo and co go "Blimey, we didn't quite expect to be in this position, mates. What now ?" over tea and crumpets.

Also, remember, the British establishment (and news) sources will deliberately state that 'lets do this slow and easy'. We need counterfactual news from the continent, rather than go by BBC alone. BBC and co are going to do their best to present a 'it's all under control. calm down, it'll take years' point of view.

The bottomline is that BoJo and co will face pressure from within and outside, and the timeline is not theirs to set. They're already squeezed into a corner they never expected to be in. Having already shown themselves to be incompetent idiots, they will not also be given the luxury of setting a timeline at their own leisure. The people who hold the $$ make the timelines, now that UK chose to shoot itself in the foot.

Longer wait = less favorable terms for UK. The whole argument for quitting was being able to negotiate as well as the Swiss have. It's not that simple. The Swiss could get good terms because UK for them. Now UK and Swiss are both out of EU, and EU has no incentive to offer either of them a patient ear.

prahaar · Post by **prahaar** » 26 Jun 2016 00:17

Alexander Stubb is a motormouth. In the past he has lectured India on 3rd party mediation in Cashmere! Finland will be in trouble if EU breaks up, since EU is the only cover for them to be in the Western security umbrella. Russia will become openly hostile if Finland attempts to enter NATO. So all these statements from Stubb is helpless flailing in vacuum.

eklavya · Post by **eklavya** » 26 Jun 2016 00:25

Suraj wrote:
eklavya wrote:Under which provision can the EU force the exit proceedings sooner than October? In any case, Angela Merkel is not in favour of a nasty or a hasty exit.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36630326
Technically, UK has to initiate Article 50 proceedings.

Is there any way around this legal provision, to which every EU state is a signatory?

Reuters: Merkel sees no need to rush Britain into quick EU divorce

German Chancellor Angela Merkel sought on Saturday to temper pressure from Paris, Brussels and her own government to force Britain into negotiating a quick divorce from the EU, despite warnings that hesitation will let populism take hold.

Eurosceptics in other member states applauded Britons' decision to leave the European Union in a referendum that sent shockwaves around the world, with far-right demands for a similar vote in Slovakia underlining the risk of a domino effect.

With the referendum decision finally made on Thursday and Prime Minister David Cameron having announced his resignation, European politicians and institutions felt free to shower demands on Britain over its future outside the world's largest trading bloc.

The European Central Bank said Britain's financial industry, which employs 2.2 million people, would lose the right to serve clients in the EU unless the country signed up to its single market - anathema to "leave" campaigners who are set to lead the next government in London.

Almost alone in continental Europe, Merkel tried to slow the rush to get Britain out of the EU door. Europe's most powerful leader made clear she would not press Cameron after he indicated Britain would not seek formal exit negotiations until October at least.

"Quite honestly, it should not take ages, that is true, but I would not fight now for a short time frame," Merkel told a news conference.

"The negotiations must take place in a businesslike, good climate," she said. "Britain will remain a close partner, with which we are linked economically."

The big money, including the US banks, whose government is the guarantor of Europe's security, are also not in favour of a disorderly exit.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 26 Jun 2016 00:26

Now UK and Swiss are both out of EU

Hain?

When did Switzerland exit? I thought their recent referendum on sitting idle and having the guvrmand give $30K /yr to every idle person, was quintessential EU thinking?

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 26 Jun 2016 01:27

The big banks have offices in Edinburgh, Dublin and the continent. They benefited from London's long history as a financial center, and early negotiation to have access to EU capital markets. They are going to lose that, and the banks want to know when. At this point, the politicians have shown them selves to be incompetent enough that they will no longer get the luxury of setting timelines. BoJo and co will have a gun to his head. That's exactly why Dawood Kamran quit - he doesn't want to stomach the insult of having to be forced to do the dirty work after having this stupid referendum blow up in his face.

Yakherder-san : Swiss were never in EU or Eurozone. Their deals with EU are negotiated on the back of the deals the British got. Now that the British are out, the Swiss are worried they'll not get a patient ear in Brussels anymore. Ask rsingh - I'm sure as a local there he can confirm.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 26 Jun 2016 01:46

Suraj ji thanks for valuable insights . +1

eklavya · Post by **eklavya** » 26 Jun 2016 01:49

UlanBatori wrote:
Now UK and Swiss are both out of EU
Hain? When did Switzerland exit? I thought their recent referendum on sitting idle and having the guvrmand give $30K /yr to every idle person, was quintessential EU thinking?

Norway and Switzerland have never been members of the EU.

However, as members of the EEA (Norway) and EFTA (Switzerland), they get access to the single market, but in return they have to contribute to the EU budget, accept the EU's trading rules (while playing no part in their formulation), and (crucially, in the context of the Brexit vote) they have to provide unimpeded access to their labour markets to EU citizens.

The British financial and industrial establishment will of course wish to maintain tariff free access to the EU single market, but this may not accord with the wishes of the Brexit voters to deny free access to the UK labour market to EU citizens. Some sort of messy compromise will be worked out over the next couple of years, which may involve reciprocal access to the job market, but not to social benefits e.g. unemployment benefit, social housing, etc. Some of the options for a post Brexit relationship with the EU are laid out in this report:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... ssible.pdf

77% of Swiss voters rejected the Basic Income proposal.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 26 Jun 2016 02:11

China Xinhua NewsVerified account
‏@XHNews
Brussels reports surge in Britons applying for Belgian nationality following #Brexit vote http://xhne.ws/Uepma

Muslim woman in Welsh asked to pack bags& leave after she campaigned for Remain. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 01491.html

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 26 Jun 2016 02:48

article 50 can only be invoked by the leaver, not by anyone else
both houses of the british parliament have to ratify the leave referendum recommendation before article 50 can be invoked
with cameron loyalists working hard to deny johnson (theresa may emerging as the chosen one) and the labour party defenestrating corbyn - there is a lot of house clearing to do before parliament can even make a sensible decision on this...
most likely a general election may be triggered with various lack of confidence motions flying around
any petition over 100,000 signatures has to be debated by parliament - current tally for 2nd referendum is 2.5m signatures
all leave politicians are now denying the 'facts' that they used to present their case... 'oh we never said that this is actually true...' type of language
ALL politicians revealing their true colours here...

to be honest these conditions are rife for a far right and far left resurgence and street wars...
just when i thought politics was getting boring!

ashish raval · Post by **ashish raval** » 26 Jun 2016 03:13

Switzerland has cancelled it's proposal to join EU just a sometimes back.
https://www.rt.com/news/346884-switzerl ... n-rejected
No sane country would want to join EU which is fundamentally a massive protectionist block trading among themselves. They club together to keep world class product out of market in name of barriers and maze of rules. EU tried bazooka of buying junk but you know what - every country in EU will pay price for it. No wonder they have failed in everything they did so far from Ukraine, Syria, Libya, refugee crisis, Greek crisis,yada yada ..fishing industry in UK had been wiped out because of EU rules so as other manufacturers who had to comply with strange set of rules..can you imagine milk has 10000 plus rules..it is defunct cold war relic where everything happens are France and Germans want because they are paymasters.

Uk does pay 350 million a week..out of which something comes back via research and investment and still it pays 10 billion in net contribution for special seat on the table..increasingly an non euro currency countries will become insignificant and will be just drag along. UK would rather get out of those cabal and chart it's course as successful trading nation.

As for threat by multinational companies do you really think Japanese, Koreans, Chinese,americans will be based in Frankfurt or Paris (where) and speak in English? They will be happily used by EU for advancing their goal and raking billions out of them in name of regulation, privacy etc and these companies will not even know from where to start crying from..

UK will go ahead with commonwealth bloc to make it free trade and guess what it is actually bigger than EU in terms of global trade contribution..

As of price rises for food - Brazil will be more than happy to send oranges at half the price to UK now they can strike deal with a nation and not a faceless organisation like EU which is corrupt to its core..and oh yeah cheaters does include so called moral high ground nation whose companies cheat emission tests..

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 26 Jun 2016 03:14

The big banks have offices in Edinburgh, Dublin and the continent. They benefited from London's long history as a financial center, and early negotiation to have access to EU capital markets. They are going to lose that, and the banks want to know when. At this point, the politicians have shown them selves to be incompetent enough that they will no longer get the luxury of setting timelines. BoJo and co will have a gun to his head. That's exactly why Dawood Kamran quit - he doesn't want to stomach the insult of having to be forced to do the dirty work after having this stupid referendum blow up in his face.

Yakherder-san : Swiss were never in EU or Eurozone. Their deals with EU are negotiated on the back of the deals the British got. Now that the British are out, the Swiss are worried they'll not get a patient ear in Brussels anymore. Ask rsingh - I'm sure as a local there he can confirm.

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 26 Jun 2016 03:17

Merkel is for sure wrecking EU from the inside.

First the Greek(PIGS) crisis handling.
Next the welcome mat to jihadis from Levant and middleeast.
Now the mollycoddling of Brishits on face of across the board anger in EU against them.

Note how in her handling of each stage the net result was that a new stake was driven into the EU bodypolitic.

Most of Germany was seething with resentment particularly during the refugee flood but she didn't even budge an inch - forgetting EU for a sec, there is zero political logic even with respect to Germany in her actions.

eklavya · Post by **eklavya** » 26 Jun 2016 03:24

^^^^
The Tory rank and file was always for leaving the EU, and May campaigned for Remain. Either Boris, or Gove, will get the top job in the Tory party. Ironically, notwithstanding his Brutish ways, Boris is the best bet for the pro EU camp, as he is actually pro EU himself; he simply put his personal interests ahead of his country's interests. He thought the Remain campaign would win, but his profile with the Tory rank and file would rise enough to enable him to get the top job in 2020. Now he has to potentially negotiate a Brexit that he doesn't really want! Having bitten off more than he can chew, he might just call a general election, and this time lose properly.

If the Labour party elects a new pro EU leader, a general election is called, and Labour and SNP campaign on a Remain platform, some very strange combinations could emerge, with the white working class voting for UKIP, and many pro EU Tory voters backing Labour in England. Some form of Labour-SNP coalition could emerge, whereby Scotland gains further autonomy (and importantly, subsidies).

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 26 Jun 2016 03:26

Anti Polish flyers distributed in London

it seems Brexit was all about xenophobia!

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 26 Jun 2016 03:33

Anyway Cameron should told to go ASAP. Why wait for October.

He destroyed 800 years of history.

and Britsh have become Nazis.

ashish raval · Post by **ashish raval** » 26 Jun 2016 03:41

They are there to prolong the pain for EU so that more countries move out eventually euro is destroyed and Anglo American project of destroying euro which is counter to usd is complete..

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 26 Jun 2016 03:49

While we may not agree on many points - the words people not just angry, they feel betrayed critical words. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgSm0co ... =61.651862
rt
I do not think Brits now became Nazis. They were soft Nazis to start with. Most EU nations are to start with. For few decades, they tried to do something, and now they want to go back. We can call people anything. But if the nation is a soft Nazi nation, then let it be.

It is also a fact that EU top bosses failed to listen to people. If people are wrong, their leadership need to convince people. They failed in that. So who are responsible for this? The super babus and politicos.