Indo-UK News and Discussion - April 2013

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 27 Jun 2016 21:38

Absolutely. Violence against minorities, religious discrimination, denial of civil rights, denial of human rights, suppression of right to free speech... overall, the deteriorating situation in the (ex)United Queendom causes deep concern around the world. We URGE the British government (or what passes for that) to take all necessary steps to ensure the rights of minorities. Immediately.

In fact isn't UQ still a member of EU? We are SHOCKED

by the failure of the EU to ensure elementary freedoms and fundamental rights that all right(or left) minded humanity must insist upon in the strongest and most emphatic and urgent terms.

rgosain · Post by **rgosain** » 27 Jun 2016 22:57

Looks as if there is a rising tide of intolerance prior and after the campaign for brexit. The campaign was characterised by the violent murder of a female MP by a white right wing extremist radicalised and motivated online. There are now reports of racist and anti-islamic violence in the press.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 06056.html

In view of this I wonder if India's pseudo secularists and faux intellectuals who pander to the West are planning on returning their Booker, Pulitzer, Nobel prizes and Knighthoods accorded to them by the UK establishment.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 27 Jun 2016 23:17

In view of this I wonder if India's pseudo secularists and faux intellectuals who pander to the West are planning on returning their Booker, Pulitzer, Nobel prizes and Knighthoods accorded to them by the UK establishment.

Touche.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 27 Jun 2016 23:48

Karan M wrote:Suraj and SriKumar
This supports your points.
http://indy100.independent.co.uk/articl ... paign=i100
6. We won't remain a world leader in research and development

Of course they won't keep up with their earlier levels of capability. The Leave folks are completely delusional if they think they can keep being at the forefront. UK wasn't hurt much after the 2008 crash because EU funds provide stability. Considering that immigration, not economic choices, was the primary voting basis, there are other countries with far greater cause to leave, like Hungary or Austria.

The UK did something phenomenally stupid. They had a *great* deal within the EU - easily the best of any non-Eurozone member. They were just too stupid to realize it. Tariff free access to a common market. The ability to run Euro clearinghouses in London despite refusing to join Eurozone, and in fact being the world's pre-eminent Euro trading center far larger than all the continental/Eurozone centers combined. They negotiated a lot of those deals in the 1960s-80s when UK was relatively much stronger than continental EU states. That's not the case anymore. Germany and now France both have larger GDPs. BoJo and co were claiming they could negotiate access to the common market after exiting EU. The EU just showed them several pairs of middle fingers in response. Basic game theory suggests you never walk away from what you negotiated when you were stronger, and if you do walk away, it's quite stupid to imagine you'd get the same thing back. EU has no incentive to give UK a good deal; it tells any would be exiter that they can get the same deal from outside.

UK's immigrant issue it its own demon. They gutted their entire manufacturing and low end services business, and went all in for services and financial industry as the basis of their economy. The Germans were not that stupid. They remain a manufacturing powerhouse, and have a large organized high skill vocational training system , and standards for those working in that industry. The average Romanian can't just waltz inside and get jobs there. For all the talk of high end Rolls Royce and Cobham, UK and in particular England has an entire BIMARU area running from north of London to the Scotland border - an industrial wasteland that overwhelmingly voted Leave.

UK gutted its working class and when the Poles and Romanians flowed in, that beaten down class voted 'kick em out'. I have no sympathy for UK today. Their EU argument is a bogeyman. The whole reason immigration is such an issue for them is that their immigration system is broken, on top of having a working class that's been squeezed dry and inured to the government's dole. That is a creation of their own establishment. They screwed over their working class and then were stupid enough to ask them what they wanted, and then are surprised that those people hollered 'Leave!'

The UK is broken from within. The Brexit vote is merely a symptom of a wider malaise of a society in decline , that when presented a vote that was twisted out of shape by demagogues, they simply stabbed themselves in the gut instead.

Latest update: S&P downgraded their AAA rating. Some of that extra money 'they no longer have to send to Brussels' is going to pay for the additional interest payments instead.

My guess is that Article 50 proceedings will start very soon. There's been grand talk that 'it's entirely upto UK to decide when', but the fact is the Lisbon Treaty provides no specific description of how the notification is to be made. The EU can use anything, even Cameron's presence at the next EU gathering, as basis to proceed. It's UK that's a member, and EU that's the organization, not the other way around. The organization can do whatever it likes. UK then has 2 years to negotiate all carry forward agreements. If they fail, they simply fall back to being just another WTO member, losing all of the preferential EU access.

ManishC · Post by **ManishC** » 28 Jun 2016 00:07

They should have a referendum on WTO, NATO and UN next. Why stop at just EU?

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 28 Jun 2016 00:15

In Germany today, there was a meeting of Germany, France and Italy. There has always been an axis between Germany and France. This time the PM of Italy was standing beside the big two. So Italy is enjoying its increased standing. Both France and Italy are calling for a quick Brexit for UK.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 28 Jun 2016 01:30

BREXIT FIFA!!!

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 28 Jun 2016 02:00

UlanBatori wrote:BREXIT FIFA!!!

Against Outside-EU-Brother smallest country Iceland!

It is best not to allow frivolous things like UEFA to distract one from feeling the Brexit pain in all its fullness.

KLP Dubey · Post by **KLP Dubey** » 28 Jun 2016 02:10

RajeshA wrote:Racism and Racial Discrimination whether against Indian citizens or PIOs is an issue on which Indian Government should speak out.

India goremint can feel free to "speak out" on discrimination against anyone in the world, why only Indians and PIOs.

I am specifically talking about standing by to deliver real help to Indians abroad that find themselves under threat. Anything from engaging the local agencies for specific action, to evacuations or other interventions.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 28 Jun 2016 02:33

Suraj does this offer indian firms opportunity to snap up those brit firms ashish is so proud of? Run them from India, truly and even acquire tech, facilities - Kalyani shipped an arty plant.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 28 Jun 2016 02:36

Karan M wrote:Suraj does this offer indian firms opportunity to snap up those brit firms ashish is so proud of? Run them from India, truly and even acquire tech, facilities - Kalyani shipped an arty plant.

The Chinese will be there with bags of money too.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 28 Jun 2016 02:40

Great Britain With No Brian became Little Britain
Enjoyed The Benefits 4 Long, Taking Small Pain
Perfidious Played with Feet of Clay now come to Dismay

Wheel of Karma moves so Slow,Gone Up will come down low
This is what have nature Ordained
Unrighteous's Loss is Righteous' Gain
This is how balanced is attained
Great Britain become Little Britain.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 28 Jun 2016 02:51

US-UK relation shaky after Brexit, US will invest more in Germany & France http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/0c71dc88-3b8b ... z4Coxm1kfo

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 28 Jun 2016 02:55

Suraj wrote:
Karan M wrote:Suraj does this offer indian firms opportunity to snap up those brit firms ashish is so proud of? Run them from India, truly and even acquire tech, facilities - Kalyani shipped an arty plant.
The Chinese will be there with bags of money too.

I hope Modi and co look at this seriously or help pvt industry doing it.

SriKumar · Post by **SriKumar** » 28 Jun 2016 03:56

Karan M wrote:Suraj and SriKumar
This supports your points.
http://indy100.independent.co.uk/articl ... paign=i100

6. We won't remain a world leader in research and development

UK investment in science and universities has dried up since the recession, whereas the EU gave us £7bn in science funding alone between 2007 - 2013.

We're also going to face new barriers to collaboration with European universities and research centres.

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/he ... exit-myths

Interesting. The second link quotes a survey in the British journal 'Nature' that 83% of scientists in UK preferred to stay with the EU. I am sure they know a bit more about the practice of science than what I know.

Every single UK minister for universities and science in the past 25 years has said UK science would be damaged by leaving the EU.

The author of the article (supporting integration with EU) is the ex-chief executive of Francis Crick Institute.

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 28 Jun 2016 04:09

RajeshA wrote:

Racism and Racial Discrimination whether against Indian citizens or PIOs is an issue on which Indian Government should speak out.

Make it broader: People of color, ethnicity, national origin or creed. We can repay their high horse after 2002.

Abhay_S · Post by **Abhay_S** » 28 Jun 2016 04:30

John Oliver on brexit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ikd7A2VuHs

@5:40 a girl who voted Leave thinking they wont win.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 28 Jun 2016 04:40

Gold went UP these past 2 dins. But for how long? I hope the panic is over because I sold all 3 of my paise's worth. As they say, downside risk >> upside potential.

Japan stocks have recovered smartly, almost up to where they were b4 the BREXIT loomed.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 28 Jun 2016 05:20

Fears are receding IMHO because the market is sensing that no one in the British political establishment has the balls to carry forward the referendum mandate. Far from Brexit, I think this will turn into EU forcing them out on EU terms, if at all.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 28 Jun 2016 06:08

Uk labour party is split on the matter.

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 28 Jun 2016 06:10

Karan M wrote:Suraj does this offer indian firms opportunity to snap up those brit firms ashish is so proud of? Run them from India, truly and even acquire tech, facilities - Kalyani shipped an arty plant.

TATA seemed to have shipped home nothing from Corus/British Steel or Jaguar-Land Rover plants.

KLP Dubey · Post by **KLP Dubey** » 28 Jun 2016 06:41

^^^
Jus' a CKD assembly joint faw JLRs in Poon-ay.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 28 Jun 2016 07:02

Pathetic. China would have shipped Home the office tea bags as well to learn something useful about Earl grey tea.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 28 Jun 2016 07:16

A second vote.

This time to apply for EU membership.

Avarachan · Post by **Avarachan** » 28 Jun 2016 07:57

The military implications of Brexit are interesting. As is well known, the British military is running out of money. (Their Astute-class SSN's use the same reactors as their Vanguard-class SSBN's as a cost-saving measure. Because SSN's have to be much faster than SSBN's to fulfill their role, this creates obvious problems.)

Can the British Navy sustain its current nuclear deterrent if the UK loses Scotland and 10% of its GNP? I doubt it.

Yayavar · Post by **Yayavar** » 28 Jun 2016 08:32

rgosain wrote:
In view of this I wonder if India's pseudo secularists and faux intellectuals who pander to the West are planning on returning their Booker, Pulitzer, Nobel prizes and Knighthoods accorded to them by the UK establishment.

someone should tweet that and specifically send to Roy and her ilk...

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 28 Jun 2016 11:35

Kashi wrote:
Karan M wrote:Suraj does this offer indian firms opportunity to snap up those brit firms ashish is so proud of? Run them from India, truly and even acquire tech, facilities - Kalyani shipped an arty plant.
TATA seemed to have shipped home nothing from Corus/British Steel or Jaguar-Land Rover plants.

Notwithstanding who ever owns the company, british and other country specific patents etc are protected by local laws that prevent their "shipping" to other countries without govt approvals.

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 28 Jun 2016 12:07

chetak wrote:Notwithstanding who ever owns the company, british and other country specific patents etc are protected by local laws that prevent their "shipping" to other countries without govt approvals.

I believe, there should be other ways of "absorbing" the knowledge. Hypothetically speaking, if TATA were to depute some of their best engineers to the JLR/Rover set ups, get them to "imbibe" the knowledge pertaining to designs and operations and then bring them back to India to try and replicate that set up as much as possible.

Is such a thing achievable?

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 28 Jun 2016 12:33

there are a lot more dynamics coming in to play. on one hand EU has been urging UK to get on with leaving, on the other hand merkel and now flanked by france and italy are saying - lets not rush. poland is starting its own drive for reform
i get the feeling that no one wants the UK to actually leave (sure sure the english are insufferable, but the collective pain if they actually go is worse) and the UK itself is now trying to wriggle out of having to leave - probably this will precipitate a general election in the next few months.
given the state of the tories and labour parties - this may mean a total fracturing of both parties and we will have a tory-right (not quite ukip) a tory right of centre, a labour left of centre, a labour far left but not quite marxist group and then increased street violence from both the far right and the far left.

this recasting of the political landscape is probably what should have been the natural outcome of globalisation and the response to it, but had been suppressed one way or the other. baron von trump is leading the same charge in the US, except (Like Boris and Gove) he is also an establishment man faking being a radical

a less federal states of europe model will be acceptable to most european nations (only the germans will be left wondering why no one loves them even after every thing they have done to say sorry for hitler)

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 28 Jun 2016 12:37

RajeshA wrote:
I would suggest that it makes eminent sense to shift some of the investment and domicile to Scotland. Then get a double citizenship - British and Scottish/Euro and everything would be fine.

in theory yes, but in practice this may take decades (UK really is very very london centric economically) and if scotland leaves then the UK will be quite messed up and the rest of europe will suddenly find itself fighting off another 20 secessions - and things may get an awful lot worse

ireland on the other hand offers a more viable and simpler option

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 28 Jun 2016 12:47

Kashi wrote:
chetak wrote:Notwithstanding who ever owns the company, british and other country specific patents etc are protected by local laws that prevent their "shipping" to other countries without govt approvals.
I believe, there should be other ways of "absorbing" the knowledge. Hypothetically speaking, if TATA were to depute some of their best engineers to the JLR/Rover set ups, get them to "imbibe" the knowledge pertaining to designs and operations and then bring them back to India to try and replicate that set up as much as possible.

Is such a thing achievable?

speaking in a radia kind of way, some businessmen are more "honorable" than others, no??

we really don't know how to get ahead in life, damn the consequences.

SanjayC · Post by **SanjayC** » 28 Jun 2016 12:55

^^ The Chinese would have hosed off all technology by now through a variety of ways if they owned these companies.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 28 Jun 2016 13:14

emotional scenes in EU parliament where session in progress and Farage is sitting with a UK flag. Sr EU heads commenting straight forward there should be no secret informal negotiation with UK.
Usual chai biskoot on board like 'we are linked in humanity with UK' 'UK has been great ally' 'our wing is cut but we have to fly' but UK now must decide quickly what it wants to do

kmkraoind · Post by **kmkraoind** » 28 Jun 2016 13:20

Merkel Says EU Won’t Tolerate Cherry Picking in U.K. Exit Talks - Bloomberg
------

BBC News (UK) Verified @BBCNews
"Why are you here?" - European Commission chief @JunckerEU challenges @UKIP MEPs http://bbc.in/264XBZu #Brexit

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 28 Jun 2016 13:24

EU is no mood of being cowered down. No negotiation is the buzz word. UK in real mess. And EU wants no uncertainty, quick decision.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 28 Jun 2016 13:35

and yes the irony is that the working language of the EU is... english!

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 28 Jun 2016 14:28

But I heard them speaking in many language in EU parliament.

Jaspreet · Post by **Jaspreet** » 28 Jun 2016 14:29

and yes the irony is that the working language of the EU is... english!

English will not be an official EU language after Brexit, says senior MEP

http://www.politico.eu/article/english- ... enior-mep/

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 28 Jun 2016 14:31

Lalmohan wrote:
RajeshA wrote:
I would suggest that it makes eminent sense to shift some of the investment and domicile to Scotland. Then get a double citizenship - British and Scottish/Euro and everything would be fine.
in theory yes, but in practice this may take decades (UK really is very very london centric economically) and if scotland leaves then the UK will be quite messed up and the rest of europe will suddenly find itself fighting off another 20 secessions - and things may get an awful lot worse

ireland on the other hand offers a more viable and simpler option

Brits, very recently, extracted a protection clause from the EU, for their financials in London.

Well, so much for extractions.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 28 Jun 2016 14:32

Nigel Farage laughed at in EU parliament, where he was asked what is he doing there (rather than mobilising support for article 50 back in his country)?