Indo-UK News and Discussion - April 2013

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 24 May 2017 18:54

UK upset with US on making name of terrorist public when they had not completed investigation, also upset with France on their minister disclosing he travelled to Syria...http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ailymailUK

Deans · Post by **Deans** » 24 May 2017 19:15

UlanBatori wrote: Stay tuned and do not despair, birathers. 10 saal in Manchesterstan, surely parents could have afforded to send Salman baccha to LaHore for a propah binori ejjikashun. Let's see how long it takes for the link to turn up.

Yes, I'm waiting for the `South Asian miscreant' to be nabbed.

rsingh · Post by **rsingh** » 24 May 2017 19:25

Funny that one of the bargaining chip (for negotiation with Europe) was that they will not share information about terrorist threats. Yes they are right. They have all terrorists residing .

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 24 May 2017 21:28

"Hashem Abedi, younger brother of Manchester attacker, arrested in Tripoli on suspicion of Islamic State links" -

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 24 May 2017 21:40

sounds maghrebi...
possibly iraqi?
not purelander from my limited knowledge...

updated - bbc reports that he is libyan but born and bred in manchester. his psychological profile seems to be similar to other recent attackers... unstable, prone to anger, isolation, gullible, easily led, etc., etc.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 24 May 2017 22:51

There are now reports police believe the 22-year-old terrorist had been given the explosive - packed with nuts and bolts - by a bomb maker who is still at large and preparing to mastermind further attacks.
It is thought that experts found no traces of explosives or equipment at Abedi's house.
According to NBC, a senior US intelligence official said Abedi had used a 'big and sophisticated bomb' made of materials not widely available in Britain.
It is understood that bomb making equipment and traces of materials needed to make the type of device used on Monday night were not found at Abedi's home following the raid by armed police in Manchester hours after the outrage.
Military specialists had made an electronic sweep of the property to show there was no IED booby trap waiting for the police assault team who raided it.
Intelligence officials say they believe the 22 year-old terrorist either made the bomb elsewhere with the help of others or was given the device and trigger mechanism by someone else, possibly during his visit to London in the days before the attack.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 25 May 2017 00:33

IN the Brussels airport attack there was a bomb maker and a couple of mules carrying the bombs to target locations.

Also don't understand the US urge to share intelligence when the UK is still investigating the terrorist incident.
its not like the US developed the leads and intel themselves.

And during Obama times the US was doing its outmost to deny ISIS is a threat!!!!

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 25 May 2017 02:40

Yvette Cooper ✔ @YvetteCooperMP
V troubled by US leaking intelligence UK has given them in middle of live investigation where public safety at risk. What is going on?
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/n ... 8df2a12545
Anger As New York Times Publishes Photos Of Manchester Bomb Parts

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 25 May 2017 06:32

born and bred in manchester. his psychological profile seems to be similar to other recent attackers... unstable, prone to anger, isolation, gullible, easily led, etc., etc.

Describes most of the British Army officers in colonial Inja, and "modern" British citjen graduates of Binori madarssa. Be patient, link will surface in due course. Like 2 days when a British policeman leaks what they are suppressing to keep Indians and BRF from

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 25 May 2017 09:14

Might be fallout between brits and usa. Brits would want to paper things over while usa france suspect the octopus reaches them as well and preempted

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 25 May 2017 09:22

Daniele Raineri‏ @DanieleRaineri 11h11 hours ago
Brother of Salman Abedi, caught yesterday in Tripoli, allegedly confessed they both were Islamic State – was aware of attack since weeks

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 25 May 2017 10:46

Singha wrote:Might be fallout between brits and usa. Brits would want to paper things over while usa france suspect the octopus reaches them as well and preempted

Or just leak to BUT as SOP.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 25 May 2017 11:17

From this report by the author of a topical book on the ME,the Brit/Cameron decision to bomb Libya brought the war home to ...Manchester.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/artic ... Libya.html

JOHN R. BRADLEY: Are we now paying the price for the chaos Cameron unleashed in Libya?
By John R. Bradley For The Daily Mail
PUBLISHED: 00:10 BST, 25 May 2017

NATO’s decision to launch a ferocious bombing campaign to help Islamist rebels overthrow Colonel Gaddafi in 2011 hangs over Britain today like a toxic cloud. For the Manchester bomber, Salman Abedi, hailed from a Libyan family accused of being aligned to one of the many jihadist movements in that country.

The strategy to send in the RAF against Gaddafi’s forces was most enthusiastically promoted, to his eternal shame, by then Prime Minister David Cameron. His reckless policy brought about regime change as the Islamists came to power, along with their violent henchmen.

As was the case with opposition groups in Tunisia, Egypt and Syria before the so-called Arab Spring, those who were set against Gaddafi’s rule were extreme in their ideology, blinded by a hatred of secularist, non-religious governments.

Clueless: Beaming David Cameron in Libya after the fall of Gaddafi in 2011

But despite all evidence to the contrary, Cameron and his deluded European partners lied to us that they were actually pro-democracy Western allies, champions of tolerance and plurality.

Some of us — including me and other Middle East experts writing for this paper — warned repeatedly that their agenda was far more sinister, and we would pay a terrible price for Cameron’s naivety.

For those of us who had studied the history and lived in the region, it was obvious that, despite their internal divisions and rivalries, all those disparate jihadist groups in Libya had one overriding and very dark ambition: to replace Gaddafi’s secular regime with one based on their own mercilessly hardline interpretation of Sharia law, before seizing the country’s oilfields and finally cutting all ties with Western countries they openly despised.

For this reason, the groups had been banned and their members ruthlessly persecuted by Gaddafi and other secular Arab leaders, and they were viewed with deep suspicion in the West — with one notable exception.

The British government welcomed Salman Abedi’s father Ramadan into our country with open arms in 1993 as part of a reckless liberal policy of granting political sanctuary to Islamist activists from Libya and other Arab nations.

'Mr Cameron had neither understood nor considered the aftermath of enforced regime change' +3
'Mr Cameron had neither understood nor considered the aftermath of enforced regime change'

The misguided belief was that they would warm to the host nation that offered them sanctuary, and modify their opinions through the new experience of living in an open democracy.

Instead, many of them not only continued stirring up rebellion in the countries they came from, but called openly for Islamist rule in their adopted homeland. Successive British governments turned a blind eye to this treachery.

And finally, after being given refuge here to cultivate their hatred of everything we hold dear, the Islamists found the perfect dupe in David Cameron as they sought to fulfil their dream of creating an Islamist state in Libya.

Salman Abedi’s father returned to Libya in 2011 to fight alongside Al-Qaeda-affiliated forces against Gaddafi, supported by Nato airstrikes. After Gaddafi was killed, the Abedi family spent more time in Libya.

Thanks to Cameron, they could at last immerse themselves in what was now a blood-soaked, chaotic country with no functioning government, awash with arms seized from abandoned Libyan Army depots and mired in tribal and religious upheaval which each day left hundreds of corpses lining the streets. And it was one where the Islamists were about to emerge triumphant.

Astonishingly, it was at this juncture that Cameron travelled to Libya to glory in his great ‘victory’, hailing the dawn of a new democratic era before abandoning it to a chaotic, impoverished and blood-soaked fate.

Like Tony Blair in Iraq, he had neither understood nor considered the aftermath of enforced regime change.

Shell-shocked Libyans were bequeathed a new and terrifying reality by Cameron and his Nato allies, as Libya became a breeding ground for Islamist terror.

In some ways, the consequences of that have culminated in the Manchester bombing. For this insanely ungovernable Libya is where Salman Abedi, paying frequent visits to his family, was able to cultivate his murderous hatred of the West.

(We now learn, too, that his father is said to have fought with a group linked to Al-Qaeda, and his younger brother is alleged to have Islamic State connections.)

That loathing for our values came to a horrifying climax this week, just days after he travelled back to Manchester from Libya.

The benighted country has taken on a growing significance for Islamist jihadis as the self-declared caliphate of Islamic State in Syria, and Iraq has gradually been overwhelmed by a Western coalition. Islamic State hoped to establish a new base in Libya, where Al-Qaeda also has a strong presence.

As Islamic State territory elsewhere shrank, thousands of jihadis fled towards Libya in the hope of establishing another Islamist redoubt, from where murderous attacks — like that which took place in Manchester — could be launched against Europe.

Jihadist leaders sought to forge a sort of corridor between Libya and Syria — where Cameron, as Prime Minister, was also itching to overthrow secular dictator Bashar Al-Assad, while championing the cause of non-existent ‘moderate’ rebels.

This corridor facilitated the flow of money, men and weapons between Syria and Libya.

'Manchester bomber Salman Abedi found himself immersed in a Libya fast becoming the new crucible of terror on Europe’s doorstep' +3
'Manchester bomber Salman Abedi found himself immersed in a Libya fast becoming the new crucible of terror on Europe’s doorstep'

So it was that the Manchester bomber, Salman Abedi, found himself immersed in a Libya fast becoming the new crucible of terror on Europe’s doorstep.

Abedi — as part, it now appears, of a wider British-Libyan jihadi cell — was able to use the ‘jihadi corridor’ to travel between Libya and Syria and receive additional and extensive training in Syrian terror camps.

And his get-of-out-jail-free card? A prized British passport, which meant he could fly back to this country from Libya whenever he chose, free to unleash death upon his fellow citizens.

As well as the terrorists who now operate with impunity in Libya, the country has become a major arms-dealing hub and the centre of a massive smuggling operation in which hundreds of thousands of migrants have been sent across the Mediterranean in boats to flood into Europe virtually unchecked.

This, then, is Mr Cameron’s legacy — though Tony Blair must take some of the responsibility for unleashing chaos in Iraq by helping to topple Saddam Hussein, whose old generals were involved in the creation of Islamic State.

These revelations are a huge embarrassment for the political leaders and military strategists who orchestrated the Libya debacle in 2011. Our current Government and intelligence leaders should be furious they have been left to face the terrible consequences.

To say Cameron has the blood of the Manchester victims on his hands may be too stark a conclusion. What is indisputable, though, as our country remains on its highest state of terror alert and the remaining jihadi cell members are hunted down, is that if wiser heads than David Cameron’s had prevailed six years ago, the suicide bombing in Manchester would probably not have taken place.

John R. Bradley’s latest book is After the Arab Spring: How Islamists Hijacked The Middle East Revolts.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/artic ... z4i4BlHfgX
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 25 May 2017 13:26

green vs green.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-brita ... SKBN18L0QU
brits angry with sugar daddy for intel leaks

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 25 May 2017 13:54

Is it possible US intel deliberately leaked info to embarass Trump?^

Father of attacker is a well known Al Nusra supporter and fighter from a group opposed to Gaddafi: what are chances he was given asylum on basis he works as agent in Libya for British? He was freely making trips to ME/Saudi/Libya while being in UK is worrisome and suspicious..
how come his younger son (younger bro of attacker was still in Libya training as Lion Hasm?)

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 25 May 2017 14:10

http://news.sky.com/story/expensive-and ... s-10891865

If Manchester bomber Salman Abedi was known to the intelligence services, why wasn't he under surveillance and stopped before he could carry out his deadly attack?

Home Secretary Amber Rudd said he was "known, up to a point", whatever that means, but it certainly suggests that he was not deemed a serious threat; just one of the 3,000 or so people on the official counter-terror radar.

But it is impractical to keep a constant eye on more than a fraction of such suspects. And here's why.

Full, 24-hour surveillance of a suspect typically involves at least two teams of 15 specialists, each working a 12-hour shift which must include time for travel, debrief, evidence log and meals.

If they are lucky they will get six hours sleep, so already their capability is being reduced.

They might maintain their level of sharpness for a few days, but then fatigue and boredom sets in, or they get spotted by those they are watching and have to be replaced.

So, for longer-term surveillance you need a third team of another 15 specialists to supplement those who drop out of the first two.

Police believe this CCTV footage shows Salman Abedi in Manchester's Arndale Centre in the days before the attack
As time and the surveillance goes on team members get ill, or need a day off, or have to sit promotion exams, or have family issues, or need to attend vital training days, or special skills or safety update sessions. After only a few weeks you need a fourth team and suddenly it's a surveillance operation that involves 60 people.

Sixty people for each of the 3,000 terror suspects adds up to 180,000 individuals, a number far greater than the combined staff of all UK police and MI5.

And then there is the hardware. Each team will have half-a-dozen cars, as well as a large and a small van, essentially for static observation through tiny bored holes in doors and panels.
The cars will be ordinary looking, so they don't stand out in any location. So much about surveillance is looking normal to avoid attracting attention.

But the cars will have hidden microphones and recorders and often something unusual, such as headlights with changeable configurations. If a target might think the distant headlights in his rear-view mirror have been following him for a while, the surveillance team can switch one off, so the suspect believes he now has a motorbike behind him.

The Manchester suicide bomber has been named as Salman Abedi
But a motorbike rider will be part of the team, essentially to locate and catch up with targets who manage to "lose" their tails.

The vans could carry fluorescent yellow jackets, hard hats and magnetic stickers that might show gas, electric or water board logos.

Once, a van surveillance team was following a target who suddenly stopped and didn't move for hours. Posing as a group of workmen the team got out, opened a manhole and sat around it whiling away the time.

They were soon berated by a passer-by who shouted: "No wonder my water bills are so high with you lot sitting around doing nothing, who is your gaffer?" They simply had to take the abuse, or blow their cover.

Hashem Abedi, the brother of the Manchester bomber, following his arrest in Libya
A team might carry uniforms for members to wear in certain situations. If the target is meeting someone in a big hotel, who would blink at an air stewardess wandering by?

Or even a traffic cop uniform for keeping an eye on a target meeting in a motorway service station. Nobody would suspect the ordinary, uniformed cop in a yellow coat is really an undercover surveillance officer.

Not everything goes as planned. One team member who posed as a blind man with a white stick found that often when he stopped to 'look' at a target building someone would insist on helping him cross the road.

It's a fascinating part of policing, but it sucks up manpower and costs. That is why only the most serious of the terror suspects is put under full surveillance.

Whether Salman Abedi should have been one of them is an issue that will be the subject of debate for a long time.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 25 May 2017 17:23

dailymail.co.uk

LokeshC · Post by **LokeshC** » 25 May 2017 17:55

Hope he does not get shot in the neck.

With all due respect to all those who were killed and their families. The britshits should be very careful and vigilant of their establishment and its policies. The shits on the top dont give a shit about the shits on the bottom.

The establishment lives in a protected cocoon. As long as they are protected, they will not care about the consequences such as what happened.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 25 May 2017 17:59

The bomb that killed 22 people in Manchester on Monday was the most sophisticated device set off in Britain since attacks by the IRA

The explosive, which was packed in a £20 Karrimor backpack and taken to the Manchester Arena by suicide bomber Salman Abedi, was probably made by a team of professionals and could have been triggered remotely, investigators believe.
Experts who have analysed the pictures believe the bomb could have been detonated by somebody else - a technique used by terror groups to avoid suicide bombers losing their nerve before blowing themselves up.
Circuit boards found at the scene suggest the makers may have included a fail-safe mechanism, allowing it to be detonated remotely if not set off by Abedi.
The newspaper reported that screws and shrapnel dispersed by the bomb were found deeply embedded in brick walls and metal doors, suggesting a very powerful blast
Also leaked was a diagram showing the location of the bodies of those killed. The fact that they were found in a circle around where the bomb is believed to have gone off suggests the bomb was evenly-packed.
A 12-volt lead acid battery found at the scene suggest the makers were careful to reduce the risk of it not going off, experts say. It is more powerful than most seen in backpack bombs

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z4i5nqUrg8

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 25 May 2017 18:08

https://twitter.com/Shubhamdoneria/stat ... 7619699712 omg

rsingh · Post by **rsingh** » 25 May 2017 18:44

Singha wrote:Daniele Raineri‏ @DanieleRaineri 11h11 hours ago
Brother of Salman Abedi, caught yesterday in Tripoli, allegedly confessed they both were Islamic State – was aware of attack since weeks

That was quick. I wonder which interrogation takniki was used. It seems they had no option of remaining silent. Where are human right rioters now?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 25 May 2017 19:03

root causes coming out.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... omber.html

Jomana Abedi, 18, described her older brother Salman as kind and loving and said she was surprised that he had detonated a suicide bomb, killing 22 people after an Ariana Grande concert at Manchester Arena on Monday.

Speaking to the Wall Street Journal she said she thought he was driven by what he saw as injustices.

His sister said she thought he was driven by what he saw as injustices
Salman Abedi (pictured) had only just returned from war-torn Libya before launching his horrific attack.

His sister said she thought he was driven by what he saw as injustices
'I think he saw children—Muslim children—dying everywhere, and wanted revenge', Miss Abedi told the paper.

'He saw the explosives America drops on children in Syria, and he wanted revenge. Whether he got that is between him and God,' she added.

A family friend also alleged that it was the murder of Abedi's teenage friend that caused him to kill.
The teenager was run over and stabbed in Manchester in May 2016 in what is believed to have been a gangland killing.

An unnamed family friend said Abedi was 'vowing revenge' at the funeral and he viewed the murder as a hate crime.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z4i65f7ZiL
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 25 May 2017 19:46

Abedi's family belongs to same LIFG militant group which UK backed in 90s. Fighters of this militant group were allowed asylum into UK in name of persecution by Gaddafi, many of them kept going to Libya for purposes best known to UK police. Abedi father after living fro 25 years in UK went back to Libya and was still fighting there allied to an AQ group.

jagga · Post by **jagga** » 25 May 2017 21:25

Not sure if Abidi or Abedi or Abadi are all same. These surnames are even in somali, pakis and Iranians community.
~~my friend was doing sharam sharam with one somali abadi~~

Bhurishravas · Post by **Bhurishravas** » 25 May 2017 22:30

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-brita ... 8L236?il=0

Turkey says no record of Manchester bomber traveling to Syria.

Describing Abedi's movements before the attack, one of the Turkish officials said: "There is flight traffic before his arrival to Europe. He travels first to Europe, then to a third country and then to Istanbul and back to Europe."
He said the "third country" was not Syria.

Sky News, citing German intelligence, said on Thursday Abedi had been in the German city of Duesseldorf four days before the attack. Investigators have said they believe he was part of a wider network of militants.

Bhurishravas · Post by **Bhurishravas** » 25 May 2017 22:34

Singha wrote:root causes coming out.

The root causes dont seem to be much different than the Ankara fellow who shot the Russian ambassador dead. Or the Petersburg bomber.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 26 May 2017 00:48

X-Posting...

shiv wrote:There is an algorithm that must be applied to all statements that mention the name of any nation with Pakistan - like "India and Pakistan" or "China and Pakistan" or "US and Pakistan"

When you see the name combination <name of nation> and Pakistan you must first ask if the names are mentioned in a positive context or negative context.

That is - if both nations are stated to "gain" from something "This move will be good for "<name of nation> and Pakistan" the statement means that it will be good for Pakistan and the Pakis are hoping to interest the other nation into supporting them for Pakistan's good.

If the statement is "negative" - that is to say "Both nations need to learn something" or "Both nations are suffering" or "Both nations are responsible" - it usually means that Pakistan is responsible and the mention of two nations "<name of nation> and Pakistan" is simply to spread the blame and negativity.

The word combination "<name of nation> and Pakistan" should always turn a warning light on. It is a Pakistani construct. Sorry to go OT

In UK context the replace India with South Asia.

It means Pakistani immigrants have done something reprehensible and I+UK elite is covering up by saying South Asia or even more broader Asian immigrants.

If Abedi were not Libyan willing to bet a dollar to a donut hole he would have been termed South Asian to cover up Paki malfeasance..

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 26 May 2017 13:34

over the past couple of years the UK media have been much more explicit in their use of the term "pakistani" rather than "asian"
e.g. rotherham child abuse case(s), etc.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 26 May 2017 15:48

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ailymailUK
Russia issues travel advisory against visit to Britain

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 26 May 2017 20:01

One more arrest bringing total to ten for #ManchesterAttack.

Looks like a big gang or cell as the new language is.

Akshay Kapoor · Post by **Akshay Kapoor** » 26 May 2017 20:13

IndraD wrote:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ailymailUK
Russia issues travel advisory against visit to Britain

Usually its the other way round. Maybe India and other non western countries should also think of doing this...

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 26 May 2017 20:27

ramana wrote:One more arrest bringing total to ten for #ManchesterAttack.

Looks like a big gang or cell as the new language is.

no channel in UK discussing why was guy & family allowed so many travels to & fro to Libya..

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 26 May 2017 21:12

what is there to allow? they didn't have any travel restrictions on them... passports were not confiscated (except by the mother)

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 26 May 2017 21:16

We have quite a few members in UK.
And we should be getting in country reports about the incident.

Yet its remarkable by the absence and one line posts on a issue close to heart.

BRF is getting reduced to Twitter.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 26 May 2017 21:28

there is not much to discuss. its a now routine terror attack, shoulders have been shrugged and people are moving on with life. there have also been bomb attacks in jakarta and syria in the past few days and news that >100 civilians killed in US bombing in mosul over past few months - very few people reporting on those or condemning them. the focus has shifted back to the politicians and their point scoring off the tragedy

details on the suspects are few and far between in the press. the security services are no doubt busy. no point in speculating

jagga · Post by **jagga** » 26 May 2017 21:34

Recently BBC broadcasted Three Girls - Drama based on the true stories of victims of grooming and sexual abuse in Rochdale. Drama was quite open that Pakistanis are the culprits.

Bhurishravas · Post by **Bhurishravas** » 26 May 2017 22:03

ramana wrote:We have quite a few members in UK.
And we should be getting in country reports about the incident.

Yet its remarkable by the absence and one line posts on a issue close to heart.

BRF is getting reduced to Twitter.

People are getting desensitised. Terrorists attacks have become like walmart shopping days. Together with political correctness, the sense of helplessness has taken over. When you cant do anything about it, then it is best to ignore and move on.
What can be done is politically incorrect and cannot be mentioned.

jagga · Post by **jagga** » 26 May 2017 22:08

ramana wrote:We have quite a few members in UK.
And we should be getting in country reports about the incident.

Yet its remarkable by the absence and one line posts on a issue close to heart.

BRF is getting reduced to Twitter.

My workplace is in city. Since the attacks I have seen some (including myself) preferring to WFH. I was planning to take family to Windsor today but saw news images of armed police patrolling in Windsor. It just put me off and dropped the idea. I guess there might be many like me (although in minority).

Lisa · Post by **Lisa** » 26 May 2017 22:49

ramana wrote:We have quite a few members in UK.
And we should be getting in country reports about the incident.

Yet its remarkable by the absence and one line posts on a issue close to heart.

BRF is getting reduced to Twitter.

Personally speaking, its a small matter. Altogether the security forces have done an extraordinary job in keeping the UK safe. Will not explain any more but show a link,

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/0/many- ... ttacks-uk/

See the graph and some might agree. I both live and work virtually next to the primary/largest military communication nodal point in the UK. Not so much as one visible change since Monday.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 27 May 2017 00:59

Very good article and gives proper perspective.

Thanks, ramana