India-China War 2013 - Trigger: Incursion into India

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abhijitm
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Re: India-China War 2013 - Trigger: Incursion into India

Post by abhijitm »

RamaY,

May I give my opinion to your question?
1. Army did not act effectively when few Pakis crossed the border, fired at them and took the head of their fellow soldier. It was allowed to be escalated to PM's level, knowing well how it would end.
I agree.
Looks like Army is more interested in saving their properties within India than protecting India. I hope Army men show this kind of attitude against enemy soldiers/citizens and not fellow Indians.

1. http://www.rediff.com/news/1999/may/12army.htm
2. http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes ... rmy-jawans
irrelevant here IMO

Now...
2. ITBP did not act effectively when Chinese came 19km inside India and put a tent.
Lets first understand the whole context. Crossing LAC and wandering each other's territory is a common affair between the two armies. There are reports of numerous chinese intrusions in the past and like wise ours on their side. Which means meeting enemy while patrolling is a common sight and both sides are used to it. Nobody will be in a shock of their life seeing other army. When ITBP discovered chinese presence they must have taken it as any other incident and as 'business as usual' asked them to leave. Chinese did not oblige. Now what do you expect them to do? shoot? I simply do not believe they had orders of shooting free if chinese refused to leave. I believe the standard protocol set by the two armies is to escalate the matter to the seniors and have a flag meeting. Which I supposed has duly happened. Now from this point onwards the story takes serious turn. Chinese still did not oblige. We are caught surprised. This is a one off out of the blue episode. Do you think we were prepared for this? As a senior military leader what will you do? shoot? use force? I don't think that is the protocol set by GoI against the chinese. For pakis Yes, but I believe for chinese No. What is the option then for Army? Obviously ask MoD to provide clear orders. When the matter reaches MoD what do you think AKA should do? Order IA to shoot? I don't think MoD is allowed to give order like that against chinese without due diligence. What will AKA should do? He involved MEA. Meanwhile Army formulates the plan and options simply because there was no plan or options for this situation. I know this is stupid but this is the way it is. We are reactive and we all have to live with that fact. The ball is set rolling since then and I think we have to patiently wait.

May be what all you and many others are saying is right that GoI is coward and there is no plan to kick the chinese a$$ etc. I also think this almost most of the time. But may be, just may be there is a plan in making. I want to give benefit of doubt to GoI, at least for now.
Last edited by abhijitm on 03 May 2013 19:43, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: India-China War 2013 - Trigger: Incursion into India

Post by harbans »

Shiv Ji, there is another option and IMO is the most important. Whether the present day Institutions that Govern us consider it a part of our territory at all. The vacillation/ delays/ hand wringing may be emerging from that consideration at the highest levels of our institutions.
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Re: India-China War 2013 - Trigger: Incursion into India

Post by sohels »

Xi's War Drums - foreignpolicy.com
China's new leader is using the military to consolidate his power. But has he unleashed forces beyond his control?
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Re: India-China War 2013 - Trigger: Incursion into India

Post by abhijitm »

Oppn has to keep up the pressure.
Chinese incursion: BJP Parliamentarians to meet President
BJP MPs from both Houses of Parliament will meet President Pranab Mukherjee tomorrow in the Rashtrapati Bhavan to demand appropriate action against Chinese incursion in the Ladakh region.

All BJP MPs from Lok Sabha and Rajya Sabha have been asked by the party top brass to be a part of the delegation that will meet Mukherjee in afternoon.

BJP Parliamentary Party Chief L K Advani, Leader of the Opposition in Lok Sabha Sushma Swaraj, her Rajya Sabha counterpart Arun Jaitley and party president Rajnath Singh will lead the delegation.

The main opposition party has been demanding tough action against Chinese incursion and even cautioned that this could escalate into a "Kargil-like" situation. Pakistani incursions into Indian territory in Kargil in 1999 had resulted in a war between the two neighbours.

BJP had discussed Chinese incursions in its Parliamentary Party meeting on April 30. It had asked the government to come clear on the kind of equipment and weapons being used by the Indian forces to face the Chinese threat.

BJP MPs Prakash Javadekar and Mukhtar Abbas Naqvi, who are part of the Parliamentary Standing Committee on Defence, had written to the panel chairperson Raj Babbar demanding that defence officials posted at the Ladakh border and other senior personnel be called to get detailed reports from the ground.

The Committee's meeting was cancelled and the issue could not be taken up.why cancelled? Is GoI hiding something?

In the latest instance in Ladakh region, Chinese troops have reportedly entered 19 km inside the Indian territory.
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Re: India-China War 2013 - Trigger: Incursion into India

Post by Singha »

sohels wrote:Xi's War Drums - foreignpolicy.com
China's new leader is using the military to consolidate his power. But has he unleashed forces beyond his control?

Western military officials and diplomats have told me that they have evidence, including from electronic intercepts, that shows that the movements of Chinese boats and ships were micromanaged by the new task force chaired by Xi.


and so too is the land incursion. all part of the grand "fire dragon on the march to the four corners" plan.

given that vast oil and gas deposits have been found in caspian basin (azerbaijan, kazakhstan,iran) and now turkmenistan, one would not be surprised if in future sinkiang, tibet and aksai chin also turn out to have rich hydrocarbon deposits, proving Mao's masterstroke of the 1950s really paid off. places like north dakota who nobody considered economically viable are the new motherlode of oil for khan, so never underestimate what lies beneath the sands "where not a blade of grass grows"
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Re: India-China War 2013 - Trigger: Incursion into India

Post by Prem »

shiv wrote:Why is there no war?

a. We are scared
b. We have already lost
c. Cowardly Congress government
GOI will behave brave if we let them know that Chinese have killed few Vote Bank Minority VBM people in the area. Suddenly the old bowled cold men of ruling dispensation will be as energetic and hot as 19 year old Brahmchari.
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Re: India-China War 2013 - Trigger: Incursion into India

Post by abhik »

RajeshA wrote: We Indians should thank Mr. Salman Arshaf Khurshid that through his insistence to go to China for talks, he gave the Chinese a chance to reiterate their moral right to have their tents at DBO and to show their justified anger at Indian brinkmanship, and they could do so by refusing to confirm his trip!

May be somebody can give our FM some medal for his achievement!
Why blame Mr Salman Arshaf Khurshid, when it is well known that the foreign policy of this country is completely
decided by MMS. Khurshid is nothing more than a glorified clerk.
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Re: India-China War 2013 - Trigger: Incursion into India

Post by pentaiah »

what has BJP got to do with Chinese intrusion?

If it is to prove BJP is equally incompetent, one does not have to go far, it is axiomatic, otherwise they would be in power,

Unlike the Chinese mango man who protested in droves against Japanese recently, where is Indian aam janata on the incursion, actually our whole cabinet wants to go Bejing for excursion where they order Chinese every day?

any kandil vigil for Sarabjit Singh in any town outside of Punjab in India?

The problem is
In every Chinese General there is a big Mao and will do anything including cultural revolution all over again
In every Indian general in general there is small Gandhi ji

I was waiting for Shiv ji to bring uncle and aunty also a cause for our no action,

with MMS like leaders all the neutral umpires will always call no ball(s) on any balls
Why blame Mr Salman Arshaf Khurshid, when it is well known that the foreign policy of this country is completely
decided by MMS. Khurshid is nothing more than a glorified clerk.
why blame blemish less MMS when Indian people elected him, sorry ok Indian elected MPs nominated him to Rajya Sabha and Sonia G ji selected him no?
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Re: India-China War 2013 - Trigger: Incursion into India

Post by Philip »

From the latest mutterings,it appears that the "Cursed",is scared stiff into going to Beijing and get a carrot shoved up his nether end.The statement is being put put that he is "not satisfied" with China's response to return to the status quo.What is probably closer to the truth is that the Congress has been shocked at the damage its supine foreign policy has done to its reputation,both on the Paki and Chinese front,the Sarabjit slaughter by Pak uniting the nation as never after decades.

All these years of appeasement of Pak,for a decade+,with cross-border terror,26/11,Headley,Sayed,etc.,still not a soul found guilty in Pak for their terror acts,the entire "investment" that the Congress has put into this "piss with Pak",has completely evaporated! The mad rush by Congress leaders including the "clown prince" to Sarabjit's funeral,is so disgusting and shameful,as the people of India have seen through this tamasha with Pak,and have realised that the Cong/UPA-2 is insincere about a real peace and only wants a status quo to continue,where both leaderships can stay in power and loot their respective nations.

Seen through on Pak after the Sarabjit murder,a further denouement with respect to our diplomacy with China will seal the Congress' fate in the upcoming elections.The big Q now is that it is abundantly clear that unless there is considerable international pressure upon China from the two superpowers, there is no way that China is going to withdraw and that a military spat is now inevitable.How India prepares for this spat ,which should be at a place of our time and choosing,is a matter for debate.
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Re: India-China War 2013 - Trigger: Incursion into India

Post by Lalmohan »

^^^ how did they back of from the confrontation with japan last month? what happenend? who did what?
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Re: India-China War 2013 - Trigger: Incursion into India

Post by shiv »

harbans wrote:Shiv Ji, there is another option and IMO is the most important. Whether the present day Institutions that Govern us consider it a part of our territory at all. The vacillation/ delays/ hand wringing may be emerging from that consideration at the highest levels of our institutions.
Of course. But why have any soldiers at all? Just pull them out.

If war must be fought, it must be fought to win. That means preparation. mobilization, force build up, to be matched by reports of similar build up on the other side along with shrill warnings that each side must back down. Aggressive patrolling, firing incidents. Cancellation of leave. Western intel picking up war activity and diplomatic parleys. None of this has started yet. It may start, I don't know but until something happens we will never be able to tell.
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Re: India-China War 2013 - Trigger: Incursion into India

Post by sanjaykumar »

India Japan Vietnam Malaysia and Phillipines need to mount a coordinated limited show of force. As a political statement.
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Re: India-China War 2013 - Trigger: Incursion into India

Post by shiv »

The other thing is that if any action starts it need not be near DBO. it may be some place far away.

What I find interesting is the way we look at India:
  • India is always innocent and naive
    Always reactive
    We are never patrolling into territory the control as they do in ours
Only we believe this no one else in the world believes this about india.
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Re: India-China War 2013 - Trigger: Incursion into India

Post by RajeshA »

shiv wrote:Why have our tigers become kittens? Are we on BRF the only brave and sensible ones left?

*;;O[[\\ ..sorry - I banged the keyboard so hard that it broke and I had to replace it. I could knock out 5 tents with my left hand. The Chinese would then learn a lesson and never dare to enter again.
As long as we don't take the red pill, we will remain brave! :wink:
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Re: India-China War 2013 - Trigger: Incursion into India

Post by shiv »

BJP will have to crap in their pants now because if Congress play their cards right they can pull a trick against China just before the elections and make it look like they are the most patriotic party. We are getting to the end of the slog overs and are approaching the final overs where scintillating batting is possible.

In fact what better way to postpone general elections than to declare emergency and enter into a war. At that time every party will want peace because they will have huge KLPDs. Advani's last chance gone. Modi stuck in Gujarat with no US visa. Early inconclusive war will be bad for Congress. Pre election action to achieve results could turn the tables.

And if a few defence deals are signed in a hurry which party will question that now? The people who protest will be the unpatriotic guys. After all we don't have artillery, we don't have aircraft we don't have helos, we don't have bla bla no? We can't fight now. Sue for peace and import. Only anti national people will protest.

So soooo many cards to play
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Re: India-China War 2013 - Trigger: Incursion into India

Post by Singha »

If we want to keep dbo we better make arrangements to defend it, because even if start a fire someplace else, the dragon will strike at our most exposed place...which is dbo.
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Re: India-China War 2013 - Trigger: Incursion into India

Post by pentaiah »

what happened to all that operations where we practiced quick mobilization rapid deployment two front wars seminars, simulations exercises, live fire, live fist. Think Tanks, real tanks, Rambhas Katrinas ....

The days of months of mobilztion years of wars is over, but we are still clinging to Battle royal of Tank duels, Artillery bombardments, Naval blockades Naval Bombardments, even the super duper power has bankrupted itself....

wars will be short quick like rapid chess

Oh well chalo the big wigs any way make money war or no war,
Like Dandi March MMS should lead Ladakh march even if he cant walk he can use wasteland helicopter, ok didnt buy then charter one they are economical.


precisely if Congis have any brain they should start a firing war not war talks...

Its ok if elections are won on the bodies of soldiers, as BRawman had said on this forum Soldiers are paid to die
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Re: India-China War 2013 - Trigger: Incursion into India

Post by pentaiah »

is dbo a database object thinking like doo (desi oracle operator) I ask
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Re: India-China War 2013 - Trigger: Incursion into India

Post by shiv »

pentaiah wrote:is dbo a database object thinking like doo (desi oracle operator) I ask
It is dabba oispois. A game in which a dabba is thrown and everyone hides while the den counts to ten and when he opens his eyes five made in China tents appear.
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Re: India-China War 2013 - Trigger: Incursion into India

Post by Austin »

pentaiah wrote:what happened to all that operations where we practiced quick mobilization rapid deployment two front wars seminars, simulations exercises, live fire, live fist. Think Tanks, real tanks, Rambhas Katrinas ....
Those stuff are good for peace time work keeps Generals , Intellectuals , Dink Dank ,Import Lobby and Trade Magazine busy and gainfully employed else how will the money flow haaan jeeee . End result is you get high score in Redflag and Bilateral exercises.

For real war you need real leadership with balls harder then the hardest known metal ....pity they cant import those else we would have seen a new RFI .... labelled as Mother of all Deals.

Salman is unhappy with the talks , looks like they were expecting Samosas and Chai but got Noodles and Chopstick
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Re: India-China War 2013 - Trigger: Incursion into India

Post by harbans »

That means preparation. mobilization, force build up, to be matched by reports of similar build up on the other side along with shrill warnings that each side must back down. Aggressive patrolling, firing incidents.
The 2005 Border Management Instrument and agreement disallows firing and confrontational engagement. This agreement was signed during the visit of Wen Jiabao at the time and lays out procedures how to deal with different issues arising at the border. Artilce 4 of the protocol states 'That if the border personnel come to a face to face situation due to differences in the alignment of the LAC or any other reason, they shall exercise self restraint and take all necessary steps to avoid escalation of the situation" Additionally it says that "both sides should cease activities in the area and return to their bases".

This makes the Chinese able to slip in where we are not looking and when discovered not move back, while we do everything not to escalate. Our hands are tied down by some clauses in these agreements and mechanisms.
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Re: India-China War 2013 - Trigger: Incursion into India

Post by RajeshA »

harbans wrote:
That means preparation. mobilization, force build up, to be matched by reports of similar build up on the other side along with shrill warnings that each side must back down. Aggressive patrolling, firing incidents.
The 2005 Border Management Instrument and agreement disallows firing and confrontational engagement. This agreement was signed during the visit of Wen Jiabao at the time and lays out procedures how to deal with different issues arising at the border. Artilce 4 of the protocol states 'That if the border personnel come to a face to face situation due to differences in the alignment of the LAC or any other reason, they shall exercise self restraint and take all necessary steps to avoid escalation of the situation" Additionally it says that "both sides should cease activities in the area and return to their bases".

This makes the Chinese able to slip in where we are not looking and when discovered not move back, while we do everything not to escalate. Our hands are tied down by some clauses in these agreements and mechanisms.
I mentioned this earlier also, agreements for India is Poison! We should really avoid any border demarcation and border agreements. Nobody else would really give a damn about these agreements and we would tie ourselves in knots.
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Re: India-China War 2013 - Trigger: Incursion into India

Post by Austin »

Ofcourse unless China is in Mars , Any war will affect both countries equally and if China is in trouble the world economy will experience another recession not that we are even out of the first ....so world wont allow any war that involves China atleast.

Experts were predicting war ever year since late 90's when Chinese started growing strong , the last best date i came across was 2012 and then 2013 ..... Wars happen when its least expected and far less predicted.

Hmm so after 3 years we grow big that China wont attack us , not unless we grow in the next 3 year at rate of 100 % GDP that we can over take china atleast economically.
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Re: India-China War 2013 - Trigger: Incursion into India

Post by harbans »

I mentioned this earlier also, agreements for India is Poison! We should really avoid any border demarcation and border agreements. Nobody else would really give a damn about these agreements and we would tie ourselves in knots.
Rajesh Ji, that is why i had earlier mentioned the GoI at the highest levels is hardly looking into the incident. Remember MMS said "i think talks are on", and this was just 3/4 days ago. So in a way these mechanisms have indeed become a way to devolve responsibility and blame for any loss of territory. The only way we can go with these kind of agreements in place is by questioning Tibet itself, claiming KM and so on. That gives us the freedoms to move 10 kms inside zones that we may make up to be the LAC. By giving in to Han claims on Tibet we hamstring our offensive options in these situations and simultaneously be on the backfoot in such situations where the Chinese ingress.
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Re: India-China War 2013 - Trigger: Incursion into India

Post by RajeshA »

harbans ji,

NaMo speaks often about institutionalizing ideas. I think the wrong ones have been institutionalized at the Central level. One would need to redesign the whole policy system.
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Re: India-China War 2013 - Trigger: Incursion into India

Post by harbans »

NaMo speaks often about institutionalizing ideas. I think the wrong ones have been institutionalized at the Central level. One would need to redesign the whole policy system.
Precisely. And i too agree on institutionalizing mechanisms. Every small thing/ incident need not and should not require a top level intervention to sort out. But in the border management case, we are absolutely right in assuming that the wrong basic policy at the core has been institutionalized. In this case i see it as India accepting Han presence in Tibet for titbits as solace and even less. But here all the Chinese have to do is claim Tibet included this area and that, (remember they have 13 map producing departments). It's a factory that have set up. When they thus say ArP is there's they have historical evidence that indeed ArP was South Tibet. The left liberal and the average person disassociated from Dharmic brotherhood will say hey what the hell..these people are not 'Indian','who cares, not a blade of grass grows there' etc. That is a mindset that is predominating the governing and bureaucratic elite. The Chinese have read the nature of the elite right. They have certified and signed copies of our acknowledgements. We have to reverse that. We have to, we have no choice. There are no permanent solutions to the problems with the Han on our borders except propping the Tibet independence solution. That is why it is important we also have an agreement with HH DL that we will change our stance and maybe shed blood, but we need also an agreement with the Real Govt of Tibet, that Kailash-Mansarover be made a part of India, with complete visa free rights for Tibetans and Nepalese. To do this we need not fire a shot. We need not end trade with China. We just have to take a policy decision and say JLN and ABV were wrong. We need not even change the rules of engagement of the 2005 Border Management Mechanism as proposed By Wen Jiabao. All we have done, is stake our claims. Then the Border Management mechanism works in our favor..and we would have hit China a slap 10 times harder than 1962 and worth a dozen TN devices..
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Re: India-China War 2013 - Trigger: Incursion into India

Post by ramana »

Pentiah et al, Please stay on topic. There are many threads for shwoinng wit and pisko replies.
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Re: India-China War 2013 - Trigger: Incursion into India

Post by RajeshA »

harbans ji,

besides staking claim, we should swear to train every willing Tibetan male and give him first class military training. Not just the land of Tibet belongs to Āryāvarta but the people of Tibet belong to Āryāvarta too.

Āryāvarta would have one Army fighting for Dharma and Āryātva!

These borders mean nothing. Āryāvarta's borders run all the way till the Gansu-Shanxii border. What China claims means nothing. They are a fascist force, and would be put down in due time!
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Re: India-China War 2013 - Trigger: Incursion into India

Post by harbans »

+1 Rajesh Ji!
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Re: India-China War 2013 - Trigger: Incursion into India

Post by RamaY »

http://newsinsight.net/CrisisinLadakh.aspx#page=page-1

CRISIS IN LADAKH
Manmohan Singh is giving in to the Chinese aggression.
By N.V. Subramanian (3 May 2013)

New Delhi: What defines a great power, what makes China a strange and brutal one, and how must India deal with its incursion in Ladakh? Not the way of Manmohan Singh and his joke United Progressive Alliance government, whose clownish foreign minister, Salman Khursheed, compares India to Mohammed Ali the boxer. This looks like the buildup to the tragedy of 1962 all over again, the year the country lost its first war with China, thanks to the colossal blunders of Jawaharlal Nehru.

Great powers have overwhelming strategic political and military strength. They also command vast strategic resources. But what really puts them apart from others is their ability and capacity to take independent decisions about peace and war. What marks them out is the possession of extraordinary political will to bring triumph to their strategic vision. Till ideology played a role, it joined with national aims to advance strategic designs, but this is less the case in a post-Cold War world. But for the rest, the defining characteristics of a great power haven’t changed very much.

Throughout the Cold War, the warring United States and the Soviet Union engaged one another directly. There was no question of third countries playing a seminal role. This is a set and standard great-power dynamic. With Europe and to a smaller extent Japan, China was the third player in the Cold War. But of this group, the first two parties had been exhausted by the Second World War, and decided to play second fiddle to the United States. So even if they had considerable military and economic power amongst themselves, they lost the appetite for world leadership, and so did not qualify for great power status. To China’s particular satisfaction, Japan didn’t seek or get that status, which showed the worst burn-out after the defeat in the world war, further aggravated by the horrific consequences of the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings.

China should also have been recuperating after World War II and the victory of the communists in the long-drawn civil war but for Mao Zedong. He forced China into “continuous revolution” which ended only at his death. But by that time, he had put China’s unity and integrity on rock-solid foundations, and he gave the country the identifiable will and sinews of a great power. Within a year of the constitution of communist China, the country was at war with the United States in Korea. Militarily incomparably weaker, it still sought to give a psychological buffeting to the United States, as a warning to stay off its sphere of interest and influence. Similarly inferior to the Soviet Union in war-fighting, it did not prevent China from prosecuting a border conflict with its giant neighbour, taking considerable punishment in the process, but unwilling to give up its self-perceived psychological first-strike advantage. The 1962 and 1979 wars with India and Vietnam were also psychological in nature. The aim of it all was to tell the world that regardless of whether it was in a position of strength or weakness, it would not hesitate to seek to alter the military balance on its borders to its advantage. Such historic display of will and capacity for independent action, regardless of the consequences, supplemented by other more traditional requisites, makes China a great power.

This willingness to act independently is not a trait unique to communist China or its later pragmatic avatar. In imperial times, China showed like independent and indomitable spirit, but its outward manifestation may have been unorthodox. All of China’s imperial conquerors were absorbed within Chinese culture. The European powers, the US and Japan could not be so assimilated, but China retained its centrality throughout their imperialism, keeping intact the core psyche of the Middle Kingdom, which permitted it to overcome its vicissitudes in time, and against great odds. You could say that China practiced a sort of strategic introversion or retreat when the inimical external situation was beyond remedy. This happened in lesser or greater degree during imperial times, and even the Long March, where Mao won his leadership spurs, was a variety of it. From similar stock came Mao’s appalling idea of nuclear war-fighting, entailing a strategic withdrawal to the interiors, leaving an empty periphery for the invaders, who would then be put to flight. That this involved the fate of millions of people meant nothing to him, having consigned equal numbers to the fires of the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution.

All of this and more makes China a bizarre and horrid great power, and the Indian response to the Ladakh incursion must take this into full account. China is not Pakistan that India can seek the good offices of an outside power to bring to its senses. China does not tolerate mediation in its disputes with its neighbours because of its Middle Kingdom mindset that visualizes other states as tributaries or vassals. For the Ladakh crisis, therefore, India has to deal bluntly and squarely with China, and it won’t assist to be circumlocutory and unserious. Diplomacy will not resolve the matter. Salman Khursheed’s tom-tommed 9 May visit to Beijing is in jeopardy from the Chinese side. What is there any way to negotiate except an unconditional Chinese withdrawal? India, instead, must pay special attention to the military options and embrace its consequences in its entirety.

The first option is to evict the incursive Chinese soldiers, the second is to cut off their logistic support, and the third is to do copycat incursions in Chinese territory. In all cases, whether with promptness or delay, there will be a Chinese response, which the Indian Army is supremely confident of containing. Contrary to the media commentaries, the army is absolutely certain of being able to repulse the Chinese, and the military as a whole is prepared for a war on all fronts. The officer corps is more than eager to avenge 1962. The trouble comes from the political leadership. Manmohan Singh is not prepared for military risks. The government has set about reining in media coverage of the incursion and the aim appears to avoid proaction and hope that the Chinese go away, which they won’t. The prime minister may be procrastinating so that his successor inherits the crisis. Knowing China, it will not stop at eastern Ladakh, and every hour of delay becomes too late to expel the intruders.

In November of last year, to the deep chagrin of the dynastic Congress party, Manmohan Singh compared himself to Jawaharlal Nehru. :mrgreen: That comparison will come to haunt him. Nehru died a broken man after the 1962 Chinese aggression. Such a fate stares Manmohan Singh in the face, and for his pusillanimity, the nation pays.
RajeshA
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Re: India-China War 2013 - Trigger: Incursion into India

Post by RajeshA »

shiv wrote:BJP will have to crap in their pants now because if Congress play their cards right they can pull a trick against China just before the elections and make it look like they are the most patriotic party. We are getting to the end of the slog overs and are approaching the final overs where scintillating batting is possible.

In fact what better way to postpone general elections than to declare emergency and enter into a war. At that time every party will want peace because they will have huge KLPDs. Advani's last chance gone. Modi stuck in Gujarat with no US visa. Early inconclusive war will be bad for Congress. Pre election action to achieve results could turn the tables.

And if a few defence deals are signed in a hurry which party will question that now? The people who protest will be the unpatriotic guys. After all we don't have artillery, we don't have aircraft we don't have helos, we don't have bla bla no? We can't fight now. Sue for peace and import. Only anti national people will protest.

So soooo many cards to play
shiv saar,

By not letting the IA do its job when the first time tents were sighted, MMS has in fact increased the danger to the lives of the army-men who would eventually have to fight this war. MMS dillydallying would cost more lives.

His only positive contribution in the whole affair would have been to belatedly give the Army the go-ahead. MSM would cheer MMS, but Twitter would still tear him apart!
Prem Kumar
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Re: India-China War 2013 - Trigger: Incursion into India

Post by Prem Kumar »

The Chindu douche-bags at it again. Latest drivel from Ananth Krishnan:

China says Khurshid visit will ‘boost’ ties amid strains
Three flag-meetings failed to diffuse the stand-off, which was sparked on April 15 when Chinese troops put up tents 19 km into what India sees as its territory.
Why not just say "Indian territory"? No sir - the slimeballs have to play with words

China has not just invaded 19 Km into India. Their incursion is 2353 Km deep into Indian territory - all the way to Kasturi Building, Mount Road, Chennai (Chindu's head-quarters)
Philip
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Re: India-China War 2013 - Trigger: Incursion into India

Post by Philip »

From Chacha Nehru to "Chee-Chee" Maun Mohan! From the sublime to the ridiculous.At least in his defence Nehru,part of a generation of freedom fighters who had won Independence non-violently ,was the victim of and the "first betrayal" by the red Chinese.Chee-Chee Singh had had decade of history of Chinese duplicity staring at him in the face,from the Chinese attack against Russia,Vietnam,S-Chu,the Spratlys fishing expeditions,Arunachal Pradesh (S,Tibet) gambit,and the Japanese islands "takeaway".It was the strong reaction by the japanes e,sending in their navy and "buying" the disputed islands from private citizens that reinforced their legitimacy of the islands and underscored their will to die fighting for it.The Japanese have their "Banzai" spirit still,but Chee-Chee Singh is displaying a "bonsai" (Lilliput) spirit! How our nation has fallen...from the days of Bhagat Singh to be led by Chee-Chee Singh.
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Re: India-China War 2013 - Trigger: Incursion into India

Post by Karan Dixit »

Prem Kumar wrote:The Chindu douche-bags at it again. Latest drivel from Ananth Krishnan:

China says Khurshid visit will ‘boost’ ties amid strains
Three flag-meetings failed to diffuse the stand-off, which was sparked on April 15 when Chinese troops put up tents 19 km into what India sees as its territory.
Why not just say "Indian territory"? No sir - the slimeballs have to play with words

China has not just invaded 19 Km into India. Their incursion is 2353 Km deep into Indian territory - all the way to Kasturi Building, Mount Road, Chennai (Chindu's head-quarters)
If Hindu's editor were its Chinese counterpart, he would have been blindfolded and shot in the back of the head for writing a nonsense like that. This would not have required any trial or jury either. People who own The Hindu they are corrupt. They do not care that they are being an advocate of dark force (Chinese Leadership) which threatens humanity.
shiv
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Re: India-China War 2013 - Trigger: Incursion into India

Post by shiv »

RajeshA wrote:
By not letting the IA do its job when the first time tents were sighted, MMS has in fact increased the danger to the lives of the army-men who would eventually have to fight this war. MMS dillydallying would cost more lives.

!
Rajesh BRF is no longer the place in which a discussion of how a military decision might be taken can occur. That era is gone so you are as accurate as RamaY in talking about what shape a military response might take. On this thread anything anyone says about how to tackle the issue is correct and not debatable.

So yes. I am sure you are right.
ramana
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Re: India-China War 2013 - Trigger: Incursion into India

Post by ramana »

Philip
With enemy at gates and paralysis at the top its time to rally round the troops and show support. Lets put croticising politicians till aftrer the crisis is over. I suggest others also do the same and not talk about theirs grandma's shorts.
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Re: India-China War 2013 - Trigger: Incursion into India

Post by Singha »

one good thing is kurshid will be shown his place and treated like a clerk there. he is unlikely to meet more than a junior foreign minister over there, be given a cup of cold jasmine tea and sent home, tail between legs to ponder his next move.

this might discredit the MEA thoroughly if the media takes up his obstructionist diplomacy first attitude and smears him, while giving a lifeline to the hawks in MOD and IA.

atleast thats my fond hope.....MMS has no spine, he cannot stamp his fist on the table and dare to take a call....he is waiting to see which way winds will blow...
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Re: India-China War 2013 - Trigger: Incursion into India

Post by merlin »

ramana wrote:Philip
With enemy at gates and paralysis at the top its time to rally round the troops and show support. Lets put croticising politicians till aftrer the crisis is over. I suggest others also do the same and not talk about theirs grandma's shorts.
Rally the troops around what? Last time I checked the current dispensation at the centre has taken the stand that this is a localized intrusion and not a cause for concern. You want BRF to back that?
ramana
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Re: India-China War 2013 - Trigger: Incursion into India

Post by ramana »

Merlin Read my message again. Its not the time to be divided. Let the crisis be over.
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Re: India-China War 2013 - Trigger: Incursion into India

Post by Vayutuvan »

Lalmohan wrote:^^^ how did they back of from the confrontation with japan last month? what happenend? who did what?
Two differences between Japan and India i can think of and may be you can of think of more

- Japan invested in China massively
- Obama might have had a little chat with Cinese on behalf of Japan - an US ally
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