Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

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Multatuli
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Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby Multatuli » 27 Jul 2014 02:16

Folks, this back and forth is unnecessary. Obviously, Rohit Vats didn't call anyone stupid, I also agree that Vic's post didn't add anything useful.

But enough about that.

What I take umbrage to, is any insinuation that there is something wrong with the Dhruva, that it's not safe.

If any forum member has reason to think that the Dhruva has a higher crash rate/needs disproportionate maintenance (compared with other heli's)/whatever, then say it like that. But don't just insinuate and bring in our only export success. Why be our own worst enemy?

Such post will draw sharp reactions. And I am truly sorry to respond like that to a senior member. Perhaps Philip didn't mean it like that: in that case I'll be happy to apologize and retract my above post.

Now please let's stop this unnecessary discussion and move on to the subject this thread is meant for.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby member_22539 » 27 Jul 2014 08:37

^EVERYONE knows what Philip meant, there is no need to apologize. I can honestly say there is no one stupid enough to fall for his silly games on this forum, but there may be some sympathetic fanboys who want to go with him despite the dirty games that are played.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby abhik » 27 Jul 2014 09:49

^^^
One must also keep in mind that the forum is visited by a lot of impressionable newbies and casual visitors.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby arun » 27 Jul 2014 16:37

Something for historical aviation buffs.

Brand new C-17 Globemaster III of the IAF, the 6th, will stop off in the UK en-route to India and haul back a North American T-6 G Harvard trainer that was restored there. The Harvard joins a previously restored De Havilland Tiger Moth and in future will be joined by a Hawker Hurricane, a Supermarine Spitfire, a Westland Lysander, a Hawker Tempest and a Westland Wapiti :

When a brand new C-17 III Globemaster super heavy transport aircraft lands at Delhi's Palam airport from the US to join the IAF fleet next week, it will be carrying in its belly a vintage Harvard trainer that will fly in the Indian skies again after more than four decades.

The Harvard, a design that dates back to the 1930s, is being brought to India after being restored in Britain. It is the second vintage IAF aircraft to be restored after a Tiger Moth of 1930s vintage that has been flying regularly at air events.

India has a rich aviation heritage and restoration of the Tiger Moth and Harvard is part of the IAF's efforts to preserve these magnificent flying machines.

The delivery of the Harvard will mark the culmination of the first phase of a vintage aircraft restoration programme being undertaken with the help of Britain-based Re-Flight. Six more aircraft will follow this.

The second phase will see a Hurricane, a Spitfire, a Lysander and a Tempest being brought back to life. In the final phase, a Wapiti, the aircraft with which the IAF was born, will be restored.



See here:

Super heavy aircraft C-17 III Globemaster brings along vintage plane to India after being restored in Britain

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby rohitvats » 27 Jul 2014 19:31

nik wrote:@ Rohitvats - In most developed parts of the world - been called 'stupid' is like been trampled over and saying that your genes are below par. I am sure you are unaware but please refrain when going after individual posters with inappropriate language. It's the post not the person you need to moderate. Some individuals engage in a bit of humor which is necessary given the ludicrous situation. Please refrain from using strong language like 'nonsense' or use synonyms (aka Google search) to move focus on post - not person. My 'humble' suggestions!


First, I don't think I called anybody stupid or nonsensical. Content of the post, Yes, but not the poster.

The focus has been only the content of the post. In an internet forum with anonymous handles, it matters not who you are or what you are. Only thing visible is the post(s) that you make. So, it's the post that gets called out. And that is what happened in this case.

And I'm sorry, I don't see anything humorous in that post. That posts adds nothing to the topic of discussion at hand. Nobody here gets to sit on judgement on another poster.

Let me tell you something - It is not a crime or 'no-go' area on this forum if someone supports imports. Or any other POV contrary to opinion seemingly held by majority. You cannot gang-up on anyone who you disagree with by resorting to such tactics. Please feel free to refute him/them with some fact based posts - but not this labeling bit. The idea is not to have a shouting match but exchange information. A little cussing or strong language never hurt anyone but not this labeling bit. If him/they still don't agree with what you say, please ignore them. But don't indulge in these antics.

Tangentially, if you persist with a certain behavior, it becomes synonymous with you or better still, your handle. And it becomes a marker to keep tab on those likely to breach forum rules.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby vic » 27 Jul 2014 21:11

Admin note - I have deleted this post but not handed out a warning as a last attempt to keep some sanity on this and other threads.

any more personal attacks, will result in me summarily deleting the threads instantly...its your loss.


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Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby Karan M » 28 Jul 2014 03:48

There is a revealing snippet in one of the Std Committee Reports where an IAF person indirectly notes usual serviceability is only at 60-70% thanks to funding limitations and only if GOI funds more can it be raised to 80-85%. While we know all about the UPA idiocy and Antonys misrule, its worth noting that the IAF seems eager to acquire platforms perhaps in the hope that funds will be available in the future to raise serviceability. The older MiGs etc are clearly maintenance hogs.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby merlin » 28 Jul 2014 13:52

That Dhruv crash is, IIRC, the first crash in India with people killed. Not good news at all. I hope the cause is localized to that particular Dhruv and doesn't turn out to be a system wide problem requiring the fleet to be grounded until fixed. Dhruvs are now in widespread use and a grounding will effect things quite a bit (a "good" situation to have, the widespread use bit).

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby Pratyush » 28 Jul 2014 14:03

How do we know that the issue is with the machine and not the condition in which it was flying?

Hell, the black hawk crashed during the Osama operation. Doesn't mean that the black hawk suffers from issues.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby sankum » 28 Jul 2014 14:15

This was Dhruv 9th crash leading to total write off and not the first in which the lives were lost. One army Dhruv with 4 lives lost, 2 IAF DHRUV with 9 lives lost and 1 BSF with 3 lives lost. 1 Ecuador with 3 live lost.

The crash rate of Dhruv is high with estimated 1 total loss per 15000 hours of flying but this is only the second were technical malfunction is suspected and the rest were human error or weather.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby chackojoseph » 28 Jul 2014 19:29


rohitvats
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Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby rohitvats » 28 Jul 2014 20:05

I flew out of IGI Airport some days back. For some reason, the IAF side of the airport had 3 x C-17 a/c along with Hercules. May be for the ceremony associated with latest arrival or some sort of maintenance work going on in Hindon or I'm simply thinking too much...

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby vic » 28 Jul 2014 20:06

Can somebody indicate how many Dhruvs are flying and how many more are on order?

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby rohitvats » 28 Jul 2014 20:18

vic wrote:Can somebody indicate how many Dhruvs are flying and how many more are on order?


As per a 2012 Report, Indian Army has a sanctioned strength of 126 Dhruv helicopters and I think 60+ are already in service. In addition to that, IA also has sanctioned strength of 60 WSI Dhruv.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby member_23694 » 28 Jul 2014 20:43

rohitvats wrote:I flew out of IGI Airport some days back. For some reason, the IAF side of the airport had 3 x C-17 a/c along with Hercules. May be for the ceremony associated with latest arrival or some sort of maintenance work going on in Hindon or I'm simply thinking too much...


I saw it on 26th May too (remember the date since it was the oath taking ceremony of the new government)

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby SanjayC » 28 Jul 2014 21:36

sankum wrote:This was Dhruv 9th crash leading to total write off and not the first in which the lives were lost. One army Dhruv with 4 lives lost, 2 IAF DHRUV with 9 lives lost and 1 BSF with 3 lives lost. 1 Ecuador with 3 live lost.

The crash rate of Dhruv is high with estimated 1 total loss per 15000 hours of flying but this is only the second were technical malfunction is suspected and the rest were human error or weather.


What cause was assigned to the second dhruv crash in Ecuador where three lives were lost?

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby sankum » 28 Jul 2014 23:07

According to news reports it was pilot error.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby Viv S » 28 Jul 2014 23:20

sankum wrote:According to news reports it was pilot error.


Do you have a link or source for that?

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby sankum » 28 Jul 2014 23:20

IA orders for Dhruv were initial 40. Then 105 were ordered(of 159 order of which 54 for IAF) of which 60 were Rudra WSI versions. In Dec 2012 DAC order for 45 Dhruv for Rs 3310 Cr and Dec 2013 order for 41 for 3000 Cr of which 40 were for IA and one for IN.

Don't know whether this orders were subset of 105 nos order or new orders.

Taking this as new orders total IA order is for 40+105+45+40=230 Dhruvs.

Dhruv for IA @20/yr around 90 nos may be present strength with 140nos more in next 7 years.

So much misinformation by lobbies in news paper reports. Cant trust or say with surety for cause of Ecuador crash.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby sankum » 28 Jul 2014 23:54

IAF Dhruv order is for initial 22+54=76 of which 16 is WSI version.

IN is 8+16 recent order=24

CG is 4+16 recent order=20

TOTAL order is for IA 230+ IAF 76+ IN 24+ CG 20=350 Dhruvs.

Of which presently roughly estimated 150 are in defence service IA 90+ IAF 50 +IN 8+ CG 4.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby Karan M » 29 Jul 2014 04:51

Thanks for the effort Sankum.

The Dhruv is one of the rare HAL successes & it has been a worthy one, due credit to them. The occasional crash is sad news, but it is what it is given our frequency of utilization.

One only wishes HAL shows the same focus with the LCA & the IJT.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby rkhanna » 29 Jul 2014 11:47

*deleted*

Apologies - the link i posted of the Pilot Error Crash was for the first crash in 2009..

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby member_23694 » 29 Jul 2014 21:47

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 246150.cms

Defence Ministry inducts IAF Deputy Chief Air Marshal S B Sinha in HAL board

Meeting a long-pending demand of Indian Air Force, the government has inducted one of its senior officer in the board of state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Limited.

The move to induct IAF Deputy Chief Air Marshal S B Sinha will help the force to have more say in the functioning of country's only aerospace firm and force's largest supplier, Defence Ministry officials told PTI here.

The IAF, which is the largest customer of HAL, had been demanding for a long time to have its representatives in the HAL Board of Directors headed by its Chairman R K Tyagi, they said.

The government is also going ahead with its plans to disinvest 10 per cent stakes from the aerospace PSU with order books worth over 1 lakh crore.


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Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby sankum » 30 Jul 2014 03:36

The HAL official said that the inquiry into the second Ecuadoran ALH crash is on, and that the preliminarily findings have hinted that it could be due to an error by the pilot.

Ill-fated IAF chopper was serviced a few days before crash

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby Philip » 30 Jul 2014 09:34

Where was I advocating the import of helos using the Dhruv crash? Some do have a vivid imagination! The point is that if we want to be a successful global exporter of defence eqpt. we must have the highest standards of build quality. Why are German luxury cars the most sought after in India if one can afford it? In our desire to maximise import substitution through indigenous efforts and products,we cannot employ shortcuts.The same yardsticks that we use to buy foreign wares must be employed for Indian wares.Please remember how many rookie pilots we lost thanks to HAL's failed basic trainer and why we had to import.

One is advocating using Russian eqpt. only where it suits us,both technologically and economically.No one is providing us with N-subs or N-sub tech.BMos has no global equivalent and the Su-30MKIs are the best aircraft in the IAF's inventory,the backbone of its capability along with the numbers of MIG-21 variants.So pl. don't bite the hand...

Coming back to Dhruv,a great overall success,but glitches if existing,have to be ironed out considering the large numbers that have been inducted and will be inducted for our armed forces.

Now wonder of wonders! Finmeccanica have been absolved of any wrongdoing in the Augusta-Westland scandal in Italy. So according to Italian courts,there was no bribing in the India VVIP helo deal. recently,"Bunga Bunga" Berlousconi was amazingly found not guilty in an Italian court of procuring underaged girls for his "pleasure". A well known madam who had provided him with girls reportedly said that she was surprised that he got off as it was a well known fact that Bunga Bunga boy Berlo paid handsomely for the bedroom favours of girls on the make. Italian courts! What effect this will have on the case in India where former air chief ACM Tyagi is one of the accused along with his relatives is another Q.Let's see how this plays out.

One development may be that the NH-90 may now be back on the list of ASW helos in the IN's contest.It was recently shelved again due to the AW alleged scandal as Finmeccanica was allegedly involved.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby sankum » 30 Jul 2014 12:51

Some news reports by lobbies are shouting hoarse about drawbacks of Dhruv and importing 197 LUH.

With HAL luh coming up fast and 30 cheetals on anvil there is no dire necessity.

Present Chetak/Cheetah are still around and will be progressively replaced in next 10-15 years.

If case of dire emergency 40 to 60 Luh can be imported and allow HAL LUH to fructify.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby vic » 30 Jul 2014 14:41

Thanks to posters for their answers.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby Philip » 30 Jul 2014 16:30

The LCH and LUH have the potential to be HAL's next successes after Dhruv.The LCH was rolled out some time ago. It is required in large number for the IA and IAF too.For the moment the IAF should as an interim measure import either of the two LUH contenders,as maintaining Chetaks is becoming problematic due to their age and are also accident prone.We will need by 2030 at least 300-400LUHs for both mil and civil use.There is a huge market and we can afford to use more than one type given the large numbers required.In Vietnam the "Huey" became he most indispensable helo asset and the LUH will have to perform much the same roles.Armed LUHs will also be ideal for counter-insurgency ops,for tackling Naxals/Maoists,etc.There should be a v. good export market for it too after the success and large scale induction of Dhruv in the armed forces.If the naval version performs well,it too will have export potential mainly due to the low cost.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby titash » 30 Jul 2014 20:06

Philip wrote:Now wonder of wonders! Finmeccanica have been absolved of any wrongdoing in the Augusta-Westland scandal in Italy. So according to Italian courts,there was no bribing in the India VVIP helo deal. recently,"Bunga Bunga" Berlousconi was amazingly found not guilty in an Italian court of procuring underaged girls for his "pleasure". A well known madam who had provided him with girls reportedly said that she was surprised that he got off as it was a well known fact that Bunga Bunga boy Berlo paid handsomely for the bedroom favours of girls on the make. Italian courts! What effect this will have on the case in India where former air chief ACM Tyagi is one of the accused along with his relatives is another Q.Let's see how this plays out.


Completely OT, but I for one am extremely impressed with Berlo's "maneuvers". For all that talk about India being a corrupt nation, the Italians do take the cake when it comes to an exemplary display of western values such as "democracy", "open government", "freedom of the press", "eradicating corruption" etc. Must've mixed with the desi gene pool at some point in the past :lol:

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby member_26622 » 30 Jul 2014 22:00

Jokes apart - Importing LUH is kind of dumb, simply because the cost of an import 'Light' helicopter will be more or at par with 'medium' Dhruv. Lifetime servicing costs will make it 2 to 3x more expensive. So just buy more Dhruv's and enjoy a bigger ride until HAL comes around with desi LUH.

All this just shows how much the Import lobby is in control of media - less than 48 hours of a Dhruv crash, LUH proposal becomes hot topic.

We should explore sabotage angle given the huge $$$ deals or just explode a nuke to welcome sanctions.
Last edited by member_26622 on 30 Jul 2014 22:40, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby Karan M » 30 Jul 2014 22:07

Re: import lobbies, I was actually told sometime back, that the entire smear campaign run on DRDO etc by several "national papers", was, after the latter org started playing hardball on TOT & offsets in the new DPP and was forcing their inclusion. Many foreign arms cartels hated that.
The media is completely sold out for the most part. Whether it be coup by IA or stuff like the above, its par for the course.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby member_26622 » 30 Jul 2014 22:12

@ Karan M - Coup by Army is impossible. Only way that can happen is if we force Army to swallow indigenous stuff (and close their $ cash flow).

Hard to get rid of an addiction honestly - it's like heroin, you have to die to get rid of it!

I am betting on the Maoists to show the way - just showing desperation here.
Last edited by Indranil on 31 Jul 2014 01:37, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: Take your desperation elsewhere.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby Karan M » 31 Jul 2014 00:21

Nik, i meant the media ran claims of coup by army etc for similar reasons. As they are completely sold out.
I dont think IA will stage a coup if imports are stopped - though I know you were being sardonic - but yes, agree its addiction and only policy at MOD/IA internal level (while meeting service needs) can address this over long term.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby member_22906 » 31 Jul 2014 00:22

Nik... I have reported your post. You may disagree with lots of decisions that IA has taken, but for God's sake stop this nonsensical rant about addictions, coups and Maoist (even if you are showing desperation)

The men in Services deserve respect. These are the guys who are ready to lay their lives for the country so that people like you and me can live in peace

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby d_berwal » 31 Jul 2014 01:07

nik wrote:@ Karan M - Coup by Army is impossible. Only way that can happen is if we force Army to swallow indigenous stuff (and close their $ cash flow).


it will never happen ... because $ cash flow is only outside of forces circle.... its only people like us .. you and me who can have a cash flow... people in forces cannot .... they have the mis-fortune not to be part of us.

Hard to get rid of an addiction honestly - it's like heroin, you have to die to get rid of it!

there is a cure for y_u, even if y_o are herion addict--shift to Yoga and BHANG both are none addictive and better in result and perception and for body :wink: :wink:

I am betting on the Maoists to show the way - just showing desperation here.


maoists are like western sponsored terrorism.. but behind a curtain.... to kill our heritage.... never even in desperation lose your thoughts and be anti-INDIA

we all know pak- terrorism thats is_l_m_c in nature
and we now see cris_ian terrorism in maoists......

better choose your words .....
Last edited by Indranil on 31 Jul 2014 01:40, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: Why shouldn't I warn you for thread derailment?

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby Indranil » 31 Jul 2014 01:40

MODERATOR TALK

Are you guys craving for warnings? I would be happy to hand them out.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby member_26622 » 31 Jul 2014 01:43

@ Ajay Sharma and d_berwal - I wrote a sarcastic comment - not to be taken literally. Will delete sarcastic part of my post since it was perceived as objectionable/going overboard.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby Philip » 31 Jul 2014 03:10

These two recent reports give a clearer picture about the urgent need for an LUH and why Dhruv may not be ideal for such high alt ops where lighter helos are preferred.

http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report-ar ... ed-2006488
Army's High altitude operations suffer as Advanced Light Helicopter 'Dhruv' grounded
Wednesday, 30 July 2014

Army's high altitude operations have taken in hit as the fleet of Advanced Light Helicopter- Dhruv, has been grounded after Friday's crash involving seven IAF personnel including two pilots in Sitapur in Uttar Pradesh. These recently inducted ALH have been operating as the lifeline for troops deployed in the high altitude posts in North Kashmir, Siachen, Ladakh and parts of North-East, alongwith ageing vintage fleet of Cheetah and Chetak helicopters.

These choppers are considered as the lifeline for high altitude posts, which are inaccessible by roads to supply ration, equipment, weapons and casualty evacuation missions.

According to sources, HAL, which manufacturers Dhruv, were taken aback by the Dhruv crash, as the copter was cleared by the IAF itself for flying a week before the accident. The black box of the chopper has been sent to Bangalore for detailed examination and the entire fleet of ALH has been grounded for now. Meanwhile, defence minister Arun Jaitely is also considering Army's long pending demand of Light Utility helicopters (LUH). The Rs3,000 crore deal to procure 197 Light utility helicopters has been pending since 2007 over bribery allegations.

Considering army's demand, the Defence Acquisition Council, headed by Jaitely is expected to the take up the matter of 197 helicopters in its next scheduled meeting on August 7. Of the 197 choppers, 130 odd will be given to the Army aviation and remaining will be with the IAF.


http://www.janes.com/article/39560/dela ... ap-crashes
Delays to India's LUH procurement 'leading to capability gap, crashes'
Rahul Bedi, New Delhi - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly
18 June 2014

Attempts to replace the Cheetah in Indian service have been repeatedly delayed. Source: IHS/Patrick Allen

Recurring delays to the Indian Army's acquisition of 197 light utility helicopters (LUHs) to replace its fleet of 1960s-era French platforms have created a crisis in sustaining its formations in the Himalayas, according to a retired army official.

The postponements have been blamed for accidents involving Dhruv Advanced Light Helicopters (ALHs), the first in August 2013 and a second in March. Both crashes took place while the helicopters were ferrying supplies to soldiers deployed in Ladakh and on the Siachen Glacier, which borders Pakistan and China, at heights above 5000 m.

"The heavy ALHs have not yet been stabilised for such high altitudes and should never be employed there," Lieutenant General BS Pawar (retd), a former head of the Army Aviation Corps (AAC), told IHS Jane's .

"However, the continuing shortage of LUHs is compelling the army to use ALHs in Siachen with disastrous consequences," he added.


The LUH programme, under which 133 platforms would be bought for the AAC and 64 for the Indian Air Force (IAF), is intended to replace the licence-built Chetak (Aerospatiale Alouette III) and Cheetah (Aerospatiale SA-315B Lama) helicopters inducted into service more than four decades ago.

However, defence industry officials have told IHS Jane's that commercial bids to replace them submitted in 2008 by Eurocopter for its AS550 Fennec and Kamov with its Ka-226 Sergei expire on 30 June.

This deadline follows a six-month extension granted in January by India's Ministry of Defence (MoD) to the helicopter manufacturers to resolve complex corruption allegations in the LUH tender, field trials for which concluded in 2010.

On 4 January the Central Bureau of Investigation (CBI) charged a serving one-star Indian Army officer with offering to favour AgustaWestland's AW119 Koala helicopter, which competed in the LUH tender, for a EUR5 million (USD6.68 million) bribe.

The AW119 helicopter was eliminated from the competition following the first round of winter trials in 2009-10 on technical grounds, but the allegations persisted, culminating in the CBI registering a case despite an internal Indian Army inquiry revealing no wrongdoing.

At this point, it is unclear whether India's newly installed BJP government will permit Eurocopter and Kamov to extend their commercial bids to enable the CBI to conclude its inquiries and keep the LUH tender active.

It is also considering issuing a fresh request for proposals - the third for the LUH programme since 2002-03 - a development that would add another three-to-four years of trials and negotiations.

The LUH procurement was first terminated in late 2007 after the MoD revealed discrepancies in the evaluation process that had shortlisted the AS550 C3 Fennec model over the Bell 407 platform.
COMMENT

Repeated delays in procuring new LUHs resulted in the AAC and the IAF opting for 30-35 stopgap Cheetals from Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) three years ago.

A Cheetah derivative, the Cheetal is powered by the more powerful Turbomeca TM-333-2M2 free turbine turboshaft engine and equipped with marginally better avionics. However, it also faces problems as HAL has procured outdated Series 85 high-altitude rotor blades for only 20 helicopters for the AAC - with no spares - and none for the IAF as the blades are no longer manufactured.

HAL tried to substitute Type 30 rotor blades, which failed to meet not only the high-altitude requirements of its own test pilots but also those of the IAF as they generated excessive vibration and provided inadequate lift
.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby member_26622 » 31 Jul 2014 04:04

@ Phillip -
"The heavy ALHs have not yet been stabilised for such high altitudes and should never be employed there," Lieutenant General BS Pawar (retd), a former head of the Army Aviation Corps (AAC), told IHS Jane's .


Not sure how much faith to put in a retired army officer quoted by a foreign publication. Foreign news services have never written anything good about India, for any kind of achievement - for their own domestic reasons obviously.

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Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby member_22539 » 31 Jul 2014 07:43

^If that general really did say that, then we know why there is so much import addiction in the IA. It starts right from the top.


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