Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

All threads that are locked or marked for deletion will be moved to this forum. The topics will be cleared from this archive on the 1st and 16th of each month.
Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 10271
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby Rakesh » 01 May 2015 19:58

Air Chief Marshal Arup Raha, who is believed to have expressed interest in the Scorpion, believes the twin-seat platform can double as an intermediate jet trainer (IJT). The IAF badly needs an IJT due to delays to the Sitara (Star) platform, which Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) has been developing since 2005.

So rather than partner with HAL to rectify the IJT`s faults, we will go and purchase a trainer that even the USAF does not want. WOW!!! With our ability to shoot ourselves in the foot, enemies like China and Pakistan are not needed. I hope the article is not true.

kmkraoind
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3908
Joined: 27 Jun 2008 00:24

Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby kmkraoind » 01 May 2015 20:22

Sitanshu Kar ‏@SpokespersonMoD

#NepalEarthquake Despite terrain limitations, 5 Army ALH r carrying out rescue & relief work @ Pokhara & nearby areas


Image
Unbelievable landing site. Really Sathakoti Pranamaas to our pilots.

shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34982
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby shiv » 01 May 2015 21:16

^^Wow!!!
:eek:

Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 19862
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby Karan M » 01 May 2015 21:59

The blades are whirring, so the pilot hasn't done a full stop.. and makes sense why!

deejay
Forum Moderator
Posts: 4009
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby deejay » 01 May 2015 22:24

kmkraoind wrote:
Sitanshu Kar ‏@SpokespersonMoD

#NepalEarthquake Despite terrain limitations, 5 Army ALH r carrying out rescue & relief work @ Pokhara & nearby areas


Image
Unbelievable landing site. Really Sathakoti Pranamaas to our pilots.


Unbelievable. Just no space. All judgement too - no approach aids!!!. This is as tough as it gets short of the glacier. Some serious effort this. Happy landings folks. Happy Landings.

And, not switching off is a common practice. Not surprised there.

Look at the valley behind. There is no way folks can reach these parts in time on foot. Helicopters are the only way for quick relief.

ravip
BRFite
Posts: 270
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby ravip » 01 May 2015 22:44

kmkraoind wrote:
Sitanshu Kar ‏@SpokespersonMoD

#NepalEarthquake Despite terrain limitations, 5 Army ALH r carrying out rescue & relief work @ Pokhara & nearby areas



Unbelievable landing site. Really Sathakoti Pranamaas to our pilots.


This type of landing is nothing new, Once Nat Geo video had showed a clip where ALH just skid's over grass while para commandos jump swiftly from ALH. But none the less versatile aircraft with decent payload when compared to russi mi-17 which requires prepared or hard surface to land.

deejay
Forum Moderator
Posts: 4009
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby deejay » 01 May 2015 23:04

ravip wrote:
This type of landing is nothing new, Once Nat Geo video had showed a clip where ALH just skid's over grass while para commandos jump swiftly from ALH. But none the less versatile aircraft with decent payload when compared to russi mi-17 which requires prepared or hard surface to land.


You know, You are right about ALH. You have no idea about Mi 17's. They can land and do land like ALH. They are bigger and certainly won't fit in that small ledge of a terrace farm where the ALH sat down.

I hope, you understand that more than the machine here it is purely pilot's 'will' to land there. Also, ALH is capable of much higher landings as this does not seem above 04 kms. The grass and farming is indicative. So is the absence of snow line in the background.

Plus, there is difference in landing on the plains over grass and on hills. In the hills -the winds are absolutely having a blast. The poor helicopter usually gets in the way.

Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 19862
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby Karan M » 01 May 2015 23:14

The IAF short of pilots stuff is just rubbish alarmism. IIRC the IAF itself had cut down pilot intake on account of declining fleet numbers. They can & will ramp up fast the other way. Looks like the media is playing up all this either for TRP as usual.

member_28911
BRFite
Posts: 537
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby member_28911 » 01 May 2015 23:29

Karan M wrote:The IAF short of pilots stuff is just rubbish alarmism. IIRC the IAF itself had cut down pilot intake on account of declining fleet numbers. They can & will ramp up fast the other way. Looks like the media is playing up all this either for TRP as usual.


#Presstitutes will now link this to delay in IJT and why IAF needs to buy Textron Scorpion.

Air Chief Marshal Arup Raha :x :x , who is believed to have expressed interest in the Scorpion, believes the twin-seat platform can double as an intermediate jet trainer (IJT). The IAF badly needs an IJT due to delays to the Sitara (Star) platform, which Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) has been developing since 2005.


Carter to offer Scorpion to India under joint development plan

Prem
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21182
Joined: 01 Jul 1999 11:31
Location: Weighing and Waiting 8T Yconomy

Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby Prem » 01 May 2015 23:40

Booroucher on Youtube

Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 19862
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby Karan M » 02 May 2015 01:33

If this is chosen, then HAL management and design guys should really really take a deep look at what went on with the IJT. They really can't escape their share of the blame.
A decade and a half of blundering about, with a relatively simple program while fiddling their fingers on the far more complex LCA and bragging about how great they were, how speedy the program was because they outsourced everything to world class suppliers, blah blah including the relatively basic avionics.. and today, its nowhere near ready. And LCA has had many years of slippages baked into it thanks to the go slow attitude shown by several HAL bosses. Its too bizarre but its what it is.

Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 19862
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby Karan M » 02 May 2015 01:39

TACTICAL JET TRAINING
Complex, multi-faceted training of future tactical aircrews demands an aircraft that
effectively transitions pilots from Intermediate through Advanced Jet Training and also
affordably “downloads” 4th and 5th generation training tasks. With dual cockpits and a
modular adaptable mission system, Scorpion is the ideal platform to train tomorrow’s
tactical aviators in multiple platform and operational employment disciplines from the
basics of jet operations to employing multi-spectral sensors and precision guided weapons.
50 NM | FLEXIBLE TRAINING PROFILE | 50 NM RTB

http://www.scorpionjet.com/files/TAL-2014-MISSIONS.pdf

brar_w
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9523
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby brar_w » 02 May 2015 01:39

So rather than partner with HAL to rectify the IJT`s faults, we will go and purchase a trainer that even the USAF does not want. WOW!!!


The USAF aren't looking for a Scorpion as a trainer (Although Textron can still compete but with a highly modified design, which has no bearing for the IJT) because they are planning on replacing their T-38's and the performance is to mimic that of 5th generation aircraft. But the ACC is very much interested in the Scorpion for ISR and light strike..and will most likely get some in a few years. UAE is also interested!. Its a neat little concept provided if you have a need for it with advantages being very high availability, commercial level operating costs and high time on station in the ISR profile !!
Last edited by brar_w on 02 May 2015 01:45, edited 1 time in total.

Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 19862
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby Karan M » 02 May 2015 01:40

This program was HALs to win. Everything was tailor made for them. They didn't do what was necessary.

brar_w
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9523
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby brar_w » 02 May 2015 02:27

Image


Cain Marko
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4676
Joined: 26 Jun 2005 10:26

Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby Cain Marko » 02 May 2015 06:46

^ that is some range! Is it with some EFTs or just internal - either way, very impressive. Is that because of the straight wings?

shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34982
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby shiv » 02 May 2015 06:59

Cain Marko wrote:^ that is some range! Is it with some EFTs or just internal - either way, very impressive. Is that because of the straight wings?

That is the brochure range.

Cain Marko
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4676
Joined: 26 Jun 2005 10:26

Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby Cain Marko » 02 May 2015 07:23

No doubt there is much hikmat in what you say Saar, but even on broucher, that is v.impressive for a rather small bird.

brar_w
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9523
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby brar_w » 02 May 2015 07:50

that is some range! Is it with some EFTs or just internal - either way, very impressive. Is that because of the straight wings?


It is the Ferry range but then it carries 6000+ pounds of fuel and has dual Honeywell TFE731 engines which are very very efficient. They have basically designed the aircraft for 30K+ feet loiter..The main objective has been ISR with very light strike but the main design driver has been Range and Time on Station. So think of its optimum performance as 100-200nm from base but very high TOS rather than 800-1000nm from base, drop a few bombs, do a bit of combat and come back as we do with conventional multi-role fighters. Its not a multi-role fighter so one must stop thinking of it as such. It can be converted to a Strike aircraft for non defended targets relatively easily but they market it for ISR (and training) primary because they smartly see all the anti terrorist missions around ME and Africa where the fast jet fleets have the bombs but cant stay at station for very long (Mig 29 and F-16 types)..and this is where they wish to fill a gap since all you need is TOS, a human in the loop and you can call in strike, r drop your own weapons that it carries. .

http://aviationweek.com/farnborough-201 ... mbat-niche

That is the brochure range


In one of their videos they even state that its at medium-high altitude in ISR profile. They have designed the aircraft around a mission. The design is not driven by "customer requirements" but what the company thought would be valuable since its a 100% internal company funded project. They went in for a straight wing to get maximum range, loiter and TOS.

So the range should be doable as long as they state their assumptions. If a user wishes to use this thing for a nap of the earth ground bombing missions (which it is not designed for) then of course it will have a significantly reduced range since the wing hasn't been designed for that.

Detailing a typical mission performance for the Scorpion, Anderson said: "We can fly out 150 miles with a combat load, stay on station for five hours, return to base and land with reserve fuel, all with no in-flight refuelling."

http://www.janes.com/article/40821/farn ... onal-debut

They now have "half a customer" in the USAF, Air Combat Command. The "payload demonstration for a customer" mentioned in the IHS Janes video I posted earlier was the Air Combat Combat which leased some time on this jet, put a sensor payload and used it for ISR on one of the exercises (may have been the last Red Flag but I am not sure).

Here's a textron write up on it -

http://www.scorpionjet.com/wp-content/u ... orpion.pdf
Last edited by brar_w on 02 May 2015 09:43, edited 10 times in total.

sunilUpa
BRFite
Posts: 1795
Joined: 25 Sep 2006 04:16

Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby sunilUpa » 02 May 2015 07:51

This is just sad, HAL has to step up.

shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34982
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby shiv » 02 May 2015 09:35

Cain Marko wrote:No doubt there is much hikmat in what you say Saar, but even on broucher, that is v.impressive for a rather small bird.

Of course - but all brochures are meant to be impressive. They are meant to make people feel that they are looking at something they need. Compare that brochure with our useless HAL, DRDO, IJT, LCA, Arjun, INSAS etc and we know the way to superpower status and a trillion dollar economy for someone or other.

brar_w
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9523
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby brar_w » 02 May 2015 09:40

Brochures are just that, any potential customer evaluates the thing in the first place and clearly demands assumptions and validation of the claims. At least one hopes so. The ranges they mention are reasonable given the profile they mention (30+K feet, ISR mission)...The reason why they can get that much range is simple, 6000 lb of fuel, large straight wing, and Low Thrust to Weight Ratio. Thats how you get a high loiter aircraft. Keep in mind that its a Ferry Range..It is likely carrying a minimal payload and flying an optimum ferry flight type of profile.

This isn't a fighter folks, its a Trainer/ISR/Light-Strike jet with a business jet engine, and an ISR payload with a wing specifically designed around loiter and the choice of engine determined by fuel efficiency and cost of operations.

Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21166
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby Philip » 02 May 2015 10:29

When the IJT first came out in record time,it was applause all round. Then came the crashes and problems,but HAL never got down to correcting the defects on a war footing.They have little idea of the time factor and have kept on thinking that the IAF has to adhere to "IST" and is beholden to HAL. The BTT too has been a fiasco.Babudom and the MOD have forced the IAF to accept a paper plane for the future,which hasn't even flown unlike the IJT.I predict that HAL's BTT will meet the same fate and eventually we will buy more PC-7s,instead of having had them built TOT in India by either HAL or the IAF!

Frankly,on this issue/programme, I have little sympathy for HAL who are snatching defeat from a simple "no-contest" walkover,a project which was handed to them on a plate. I suggest that as a "golden handshake" for the outgoing Chairman and project head of the IJT when they retire,a gold painted model of the IJT be given to them in lieu of their gratuity as grateful thanks from the nation for the crores of taxpayer's money wasted!

The Scorpion design and specs looks v.interesting and we do have a need for a COIN aircraft,Tucanos have performed that duty as a turboprop in oither air forces. A combination of trainer-ISR-cum-COIN aircraft would be ideal for the IAF/AAC. being twin-engine is also great for survival of the aircraft and pilots in the event of an engine failure. With MB seats,added safety. A swift comparison of other similar
options available,cost/performance factors,etc., and a quick decision too.

Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 23387
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby Austin » 02 May 2015 10:38

Hmm so IAF are planning to now import Scorpion for IJT without putting any effort to fix the IJT or accepting it in N-1 configuration , Scorpion should help in making IAF 3 stage training fully on Foreign Designed/Imported aircraft.

Coupled with IAF desire to even get Gripen as a sustitute for Light Fighter Tejas and Rafale just procured for MMRCA and FGFA in pipeline.......IAF might well change its name from Indian Airforce to Imported Airforce an apt tag for them to have with the thought process and planning in mind.

This import graph would always remain high for the next two decade

http://www.janes.com/article/50962/indi ... hree-years

Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21166
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby Philip » 02 May 2015 11:17

"Imported Air Farce" :rotfl:

pankajs
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14740
Joined: 13 Aug 2009 20:56

Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby pankajs » 02 May 2015 11:48

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/City ... 126318.cms
IAF may involve pvt cos in modifying aircraft accessories
NAGPUR: After recently opening up aircraft overhaul works for private sector, maintenance command of Indian Air Force (IAF) is expected to invite bids for modification of certain accessories in transport and fighter aircraft.

It may start with AN-32, the transport aircraft procured from the erstwhile USSR. This may be followed by that for the Sukhoi-30 fighters. The matter is still under consideration for the second aircraft. Though not a critical component, the equipment was still an important add-on to the aircraft, said Air Marshal Jagjit Singh, Air-Officer-Commanding-in-Chief of the maintenance command, during an informal interaction with TOI.

The job was currently being carried out by Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL), but the PSU already had its hands full. So the IAF planned to share the burden. First the know-how will be taken from HAL, then the job will be carried out in-house initially before being passed on to private sector. Tenders were expected to be issued in a few months, said the officer.

Singh stated IAF had already outsourced a part of life cycle extension work for AN-32 and MIG-29 to a private company. The tenders for it were floated last year. Certain jobs that are manpower intensive could be easily outsourced to the private sector that has also developed the know-how. This helped in speeding up the process, he said.

The maintenance command will also be taking up the job of overhauling of Sukhoi-30 by July this year. Again, this will ease the load on HAL, which has been doing the job. The Sukhoi fleet will eventually touch 300 from around 180 at present. HAL overhauls around 25 aircraft in a year. If the maintenance command took up the work too, the time lag could be reduced by 3-4 years, he informed. The maintenance command had also been steadily working on indigenization of spares. Recently it achieved success in making certain major spares at home through reverse engineering, said Singh.

Sources stated air headquarters had also invited bids for mordernization of base repair depots (BRDs). BRDs were functional units under the command and were spread located all across the country. Recently a request for proposal was floated for the contract to modernize the 16 BRDs. The bids would be received in the next month, said a source. The entire contract may be worth close to Rs 400 crore, said a source.

pankajs
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14740
Joined: 13 Aug 2009 20:56

Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby pankajs » 02 May 2015 11:52

✈Anantha Krishnan M✈ @writetake · 2h 2 hours ago

An MoD official confirms committee looking into tweaking India's Defence Procurement Policy #DPP expected to submit report soon.
✈Anantha Krishnan M✈ @writetake · 2h 2 hours ago

An MoD official confirms that DPSUs will be left with no option but to revamp their strategies for survival.

pragnya
BRFite
Posts: 728
Joined: 20 Feb 2011 18:41

Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby pragnya » 02 May 2015 13:13

pankajs wrote:http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/City/Nagpur/IAF-may-involve-pvt-cos-in-modifying-aircraft-accessories/articleshow/47126318.cms
IAF may involve pvt cos in modifying aircraft accessories
NAGPUR: After recently opening up aircraft overhaul works for private sector, maintenance command of Indian Air Force (IAF) is expected to invite bids for modification of certain accessories in transport and fighter aircraft.

It may start with AN-32, the transport aircraft procured from the erstwhile USSR. This may be followed by that for the Sukhoi-30 fighters. The matter is still under consideration for the second aircraft. Though not a critical component, the equipment was still an important add-on to the aircraft, said Air Marshal Jagjit Singh, Air-Officer-Commanding-in-Chief of the maintenance command, during an informal interaction with TOI.

The job was currently being carried out by Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL), but the PSU already had its hands full. So the IAF planned to share the burden. First the know-how will be taken from HAL, then the job will be carried out in-house initially before being passed on to private sector. Tenders were expected to be issued in a few months, said the officer.

Singh stated IAF had already outsourced a part of life cycle extension work for AN-32 and MIG-29 to a private company. The tenders for it were floated last year. Certain jobs that are manpower intensive could be easily outsourced to the private sector that has also developed the know-how. This helped in speeding up the process, he said.

The maintenance command will also be taking up the job of overhauling of Sukhoi-30 by July this year. Again, this will ease the load on HAL, which has been doing the job. The Sukhoi fleet will eventually touch 300 from around 180 at present. HAL overhauls around 25 aircraft in a year. If the maintenance command took up the work too, the time lag could be reduced by 3-4 years, he informed. The maintenance command had also been steadily working on indigenization of spares. Recently it achieved success in making certain major spares at home through reverse engineering, said Singh.

Sources stated air headquarters had also invited bids for mordernization of base repair depots (BRDs). BRDs were functional units under the command and were spread located all across the country. Recently a request for proposal was floated for the contract to modernize the 16 BRDs. The bids would be received in the next month, said a source. The entire contract may be worth close to Rs 400 crore, said a source.


IAF is acting faster on 'privatisation' than the GOI.

they wanted the pvt sector for AVROs, Pilatus manufacture. they are outsourcing overhauls, maintainence now.

what next? outsource BRDs? maintainence commands? :idea:

seems they want to be only 'operations' force!!

arun
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10248
Joined: 28 Nov 2002 12:31

Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby arun » 02 May 2015 13:34

X Posted.

This picture of an Indian Army Aviation ALH Dhruv parked on a narrow terraced field up the side of a mountain in Pokhara shows the difficult terrain conditions that our Military has had to face in delivering aid in Nepal:

Image

From here:

Twitter

wig
BRFite
Posts: 1907
Joined: 09 Feb 2009 16:58

Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby wig » 02 May 2015 16:01

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1150502/j ... USyhtnrbmI
The mysterious Rafale riddle
excerpts
very few combat aircraft out of the original numbers procured seem to be flying
Printed open source information like that of the (latest) Jane's All the World's Aircraft shows that India has nine types of combat aircraft, the breakup of which gives a rather dismal scenario as on date. Of the "original total of 29 year old 70 MiG-29" (1986) only 53 are flying. The strength of 30-year-old (1985) "46 Mirage 2000H is down to 38". Also 30-year-old (1985) "165 MiG-27ML number has dwindled to 89". The 1979-inducted "125 Jaguar IS number stands at 89". The strength of "14 (original) maritime version Jaguar" (1986) too has come down to 10 after 29 years. Upgraded since 1999, the strength of MiG-21 Bis stands at 117. The other version of MiGs which has completed its golden jubilee in the IAF still flies with its 78 aircraft. The only exception fighter aircraft is 200 Sukhoi-30MKI, which has been operational for the last 13 years, from 2002. The other new (limited combat capable) flying machine is the BAE Systems manufactured Hawk Mark-132 advanced jet trainer (AJT), 66 of which, covered by the original contract, were delivered by mid-2012. Interestingly, it was only after a 21-year wait that the Indian government completed negotiations concerning the purchase of 66 BAE Systems aircraft. Delivery began in 2007. What sort of cost overrun had resulted owing to the time overrun, in turn resulting in the loss of public money and adversely affecting the IAF's operational preparedness and morale?

further excerpts
Almost 30 per cent of air force operational squadrons were virtually non-operational owing to the under-strength fleet. Cost escalation had reached alarming proportions. Defeated rivals were up in arms to make ano-ther desperate attempt to push out the Rafale. Foreign ambassadors were giving audacious press statements castigating the Indian choice of an 'inferior' flying machine. The cancellation of the Rafale contract would put the clock back. Again another request-for-proposal to selection of the aircraft would mean an additional 4-5 years. And by that time the IAF would emerge as a force on paper. Not a very pleasant situation to be faced by any Indian prime minister when his foreign visit is meant to be for capital infusion, trade collaboration, favourable investment environment and industrial co-development. It was an unthinkably adverse climate. The IAF compelled India to go for a deal which is bound to be raised by critics and cynics alike in the future, especially by those who had a high stake (legal or illegal) in the continuation of the original deal which had begun in 2007

Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21166
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby Philip » 03 May 2015 18:43

IJT alternatives:

The Aermacchi 345/346 aircraft offer good alternatives to the Scorpion.costs should be compared as well as performance.It is being evaluated by the French as well.

http://globalaviationreport.com/2014/09 ... t-trainer/
France appears to have begun the process of seeking a replacement for its air force’s fleet of aged Dassault-Breguet/Dornier Alpha Jet trainers – and Alenia Aermacchi’s M-345 is in the frame. Officials will later this month travel to Alenia Aermacchi’s plant in Venegono, Italy, to evaluate the M-345 high-efficiency trainer.

Editor’s note: Given the Alenia M-345/346, BAE Systems Hawk, KAI T-50, Boeing/Saab’s T-X – there are others – it’s hard to see where Textron Air Land’s Scorpion Jet can fit in to this niche. But they have announced their intention to try.


http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/ ... ed-trainer

Alenia Aermacchi and Italy’s Ministry of Defense signed an agreement at the Paris Air Show to jointly define specifications and collaborate on a new “basic-advanced” jet trainer, the M-345 HET (high-efficiency trainer). The new trainer would be a further development of the company’s M-311 design, with entry into service between 2017 and 2020.

The M-345 would replace the Italian air force’s older MB-339s and compete on the international market against advanced turboprop trainers such as the Embraer Super Tucano. It would serve for basic pilot training, with Alenia Aermacchi’s M-346 fulfilling the role of a lead-in fighter trainer. Meanwhile, the fielded M-346 fleet remained grounded following the May 11 crash of a prototype used for testing at Val Bormida, Italy.

“It is a sort of renaissance for the jet ab initio training philosophy,” said Marco Valerio Bonelli, Alenia Aermacchi head of media relations and export campaigns support. “Today most air forces are replacing the [current] generation of training turboprops, and the turboprops have become very powerful, costly to operate and costly to buy. The solution we will offer on the market will be less costly to buy than an advanced turboprop…with the same operational costs.”

The M-345 HET will be equipped with a turbofan in the 3,500-pound-thrust category, the company said. It will feature “state-of-the-art” avionics, including a head-up display in the front cockpit, with a repeater display in the rear cockpit; three 5- by 7-inch multifunction displays for both pilots and hands on throttle-and-stick (Hotas) controls. “The new trainer will be designed to guarantee a training syllabus perfectly aligned” with that of the M-346. The two trainers will have similar cockpits, enabling interoperability in joint training missions.

Alenia Macchi has orders for 57 M-346s, comprising 30 for Israel, 15 for the Italian air force and 12 for Singapore, the first export customer. Bonelli declined to comment on the number of deliveries; however, AIN understands that six of the advanced trainers have been delivered to the Republic of Singapore Air Force 150 Squadron, which is based at Cazaux, France.


For the record:
http://globalaviationreport.com/2014/06 ... 15s-f-16s/

The day Israel obtained MiG-29s and discovered they were a match for their F-15s, F-16s

June 23, 2014 · by globalaviationreport ·
Credit: Israeli Air Force – MiG-29 fighter jet

The “Sting” has landed

. Last year, Russia negotiated the sale of MIG-29 fighter jets to Syria. This is a good time to recall that in 1997, under a heavy cloud of secrecy, three MIG-29 “Fulcrum” (“Sting” in Russian) landed in Israel. For several weeks, Israeli test pilots learned the plane and its weapon systems inside and out, flown numerous hours, and tested the jet’s abilities when facing Israeli fighter jets

“In terms of its abilities, the MIG-29 equals those of the F-15 and F-16 jets. In some respects it even surpasses the two”, said Major N, Chief Experimental Pilot of the MIG.

Three single seat MIG-29s stayed at one of the Israeli Air Force bases for a few weeks. The MIGs were secretly brought to Israel, and it was a rare opportunity for the air force to study up close what of the main interception jets used by Iran and Syria.

Lieut. Col. M was in charge of the test centre of the air force, and one of the few Israeli pilots to fly the MIG: “We are used to test foreign aircraft, as part of our purchasing procedure, but the MIG-29 was an out of the ordinary kind of test flight”, he said. “Not even for a moment did we forget that this aircraft is the most advanced strategic threat that exists at the arena today”.

In order to fly the MIG-29s, the test-pilots had to undergo a special course. At the first stage, the crew learned of the special structure and systems of the jet. The language barrier was the main difficulty: the study material was all written in Russian, forcing the Israeli pilots to use a translator, and at times to improvise.

“The language post a great challenge, as the voice warning system in the aircraft, who alerts the pilot of potential malfunctions, spoke Russian”, says Lieut. Col. M. “The visual warning, that appear on screen, were all displayed in Cyrillic script as well”.

Upon successful completion of the theoretical part, each pilot performed three flights with the jet.

“Since we are used to fly unfamiliar aircraft, it wasn’t a great challenge to fly the MIG-29 by ourselves right from the first time”, says Lieut. Col. M. “Within minutes sitting in the cockpit, I was comfortable. While everything around me was written in Russian, we labelled most of the instruments with English translation”.

One of the things that caught the pilot’s attention was the difference in the Eastern approach to jet construction, characterising the MIG, and the western kind, typical of the F-15 and F-16. “One of the greatest tools available to the pilot in this jet, is its ability to land by itself, without the need for pilot’s involvement”, Says Major N. “Landing destination is entered into the computer before takeoff. In case of bad weather, or any other difficulty, hampering pilot’s ability to land, he simply needs to press a button, and the jet will land by itself. When testing the jet, we did not use this system for several reasons, but no doubt, it is a nice system. Another system worth of mentioning, is the one that stabilises the jet in case the pilot is affected by Vertigo disease, and loses his orientation in space. Such systems do not exist in western aircraft, counting on the pilot to handle such situations independently”.
Credit: Israeli Air Force – F-16I, F-15I, MiG-29

A serious opponent

The three jets were received at one of the air force bases, where they were thoroughly studied, and the first solo flights conducted. “I wasn’t too excited about the first solo flight on the MIG”, describes Lieut. Col. M. “What exciting, is the fact that so many people watched that premiere flight. It’s not every day that a MIG takes off the squadron’s runway. Everyone at the base stopped what they were doing to watch that jet fly”.

There were several flights every day at which the weapon systems of the jets were tested. Each test flight began with a brief on the expected simulation, and each flight concluded by a thorough debrief, where both MIG pilots and those who simulated the “enemy” in Israeli jets.

“The debrief is the most serious part”, tells Lieut. Gen. G, one of the MIG-29 pilots. “This time, they were even more serious. After each flight, which last an hour, there was a two to three hours de-brief, sometimes even more”. Each of the test pilots accumulated 20 flight hours, gaining significant experience in operating the aircraft.

Studies of the aircraft confirmed it as a serious opponent in air combat. “MIG’s abilities equals and sometimes even exceeds those of the F-15 and F-16 jets”, says Major N, a test pilot. “The aircraft is highly manoeuvrable, and its engines provide higher weight to thrust ratio. Our pilots must be careful with this aircraft in air combat. Flown by a well trained professional, it is a worthy opponent”.

Lieut. Gen. M shares the appreciation for the Russian aircraft: “Flying the MIG was one of a kind type of experience for a test pilot. Now I know that the result of an air combat between the MIG and an Israeli fighter jet depends on how the combat develops. In a tight battle, it is a real threat. It’s an advanced aircraft, and in close manoeuvring engagements it is absolutely terrific. It makes sharp turns, it’s quick, and to my opinion, as a platform, it does not fall short of our advanced fighter jets”.
Credit: Israeli Air Force – MiG-29 fighter jet

Advantages and disadvantages

Test-Flying the MIG provided a lot of useful information regarding its weapon systems. “I was positively surprised by its systems”, says Lieut. Gen. G. “The different parts (Radar, helmet mounted display, and the missiles) are very well combined. The jet is equipped with an advanced air-to-air guided missiles, as well as radar guided missiles. The jet features an IRST (Infra Red Search and Track) system, which identifying targets by their heat signature, without using radar. All these, combined on a relatively good platform, result in an advanced weapons system. The MIG turned out to be an advanced fighter jet, similar to the F-15 and F-16 aircraft”.

“The MIG has an excellent radar system”, says Major N. “I was also very impressed with the IRST system. The missile systems provide the jet with significant advantage. I made a good use of the Russian helmet, and I can say that it works fairly well. Having said that, it is less convenient than the Israeli system, and in some ways it falls short of it. Overall it works well”.

There is a major disadvantage: difficulty to fully utilize the jet’s abilities. “One of the greatest problems of the MIG is its human engineering”, explains Major N. “Most of the systems installed are good overall, but their combination, and the user interface is cumbersome, and begs for an improvement. On several occasions, I needed a certain piece of information which was not showing on any of the cockpit instruments”.

Trustworthy, Strong, Massive

Major H., an F-16 pilot underwent the MIG training course along with the test pilots, so in case of an emergency or a malfunction, he could guide the pilots over the radio on how to proceed. During the course, he also had flown the plane.

“It is a great experience for an Israeli jet pilot”, he says. “I was positively impressed with the overall simplicity of the jet. The important things are proper and simple. The ignition for example, is done with a single push of a button, following which there are only a few tests the pilot needs to perform. Its manoeuvrability was also very impressive”.

For a long time, the MIG was regarded a replica of the American F-18. Major N. Had an opportunity to fly both, and to compare:

“You can see from the first glance, that there is a great resemblance between the two”, he says. “They both have a twin engine, a double tail, and an IRST system. But in contrast to the American jet, the MIG was designed with air combat as its main mission in mind. According to its designers, it can also serve as an attack aircraft as a secondary role, and it cannot carry a large amount of air-to-surface ammunition”.

Lieut. Col. G. Concludes: “The jets had very few malfunctions, and like other Russian products the MIG-29 is trustworthy, strong, and massive. The F-15 and F-16 are much more delicate, compared”.

Story courtesy of Noam Ofir | Udi Ezion | Nikolai Avrutov – IAF


RKumar
BRFite
Posts: 1302
Joined: 26 Jul 2009 12:29
Location: Evolution is invention, explosion is destruction.

Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby RKumar » 06 May 2015 00:21

I hope MoD(i) only sign for 15 CH-47F Chinook heavy-lift helicopters. I know army and IAF are fighting for AH-64E Apache, better MoD should skip this deal. Invest saved money in border infrastructure, which is far more important and will also avoid inter services fight.

NRao
BRF Oldie
Posts: 16888
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Illini Nation

Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby NRao » 06 May 2015 01:50

Slow day.

I hope MoD(i) only sign for 15 CH-47F Chinook heavy-lift helicopters. I know army and IAF are fighting for AH-64E Apache, better MoD should skip this deal. Invest saved money in border infrastructure, which is far more important and will also avoid inter services fight.


Done!!

http://in.reuters.com/article/2014/08/0 ... OW20140807

India has offered a follow-on order of 39 AH-64D Apache helicopters in addition to the 22 now being negotiated, a Defence Ministry official said


The initial batch of Apache helicopters is meant to replace the Indian Air Force's ageing fleet of Soviet-era aircraft and will be armed with Hellfire and Stinger missiles.

The Indian Army has separately requested a fleet of at least 39 of these attack aircraft, some of which will be deployed as part of a new mountain division it is raising along the disputed border with China, an army official said.

Karthik S
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5380
Joined: 18 Sep 2009 12:12

Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby Karthik S » 06 May 2015 03:25



3 additional c 17s not confirmed yet?

member_29068
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 7
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby member_29068 » 07 May 2015 00:14

can anyone tell me why IAF is running for AH64D,when AH64E is already out and performimg? :?:

brar_w
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9523
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby brar_w » 07 May 2015 01:12

They are getting AH-64E's. The Delta is not in production but the current E version was earlier referred to as the AH-64 D Blk III and later given the Echo designation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_lru9On2u4

Shalav
BRFite
Posts: 589
Joined: 17 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby Shalav » 07 May 2015 02:25

arun wrote:Image

From here:

Twitter



That's some amazing piloting.

It looks to me that the rotor disks would be close to within a 1-2 metres of the higher terrace where the LCH landed, that too in mountainous terrain with unpredictable winds. That pilot should be lauded for his/her disregard of danger to help our Nepali cousins.

Well done!

Shreeman
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3762
Joined: 17 Jan 2007 15:31
Location: bositiveneuj.blogspot.com
Contact:

Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby Shreeman » 07 May 2015 03:22

ALH, not LCH.

Shalav
BRFite
Posts: 589
Joined: 17 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby Shalav » 07 May 2015 04:21

Oopsieee my bad only!


Return to “Trash Can Archive”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 17 guests