Indian Space Programme Discussion

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KrishG
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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby KrishG » 29 Apr 2015 23:23

Suraj wrote:Congrats to ISRO! Wiki also refers to an SCE-200 semi-cryogenic engine with 2MN thrust_vac . It's supposedly to be tested in 2016-17. I assuming this means ground testing, because I don't recall prior references to it ?


Full scale testing wont be possible by 2017 due to the following reasons.
1) Component fabrication/testing has just kicked off. It would not be possible to fabricate/assemble the engine within 1-2 years.
2) India as of now doesn't have the facilities required to test a 2MN engine. I believe such a facility is being/about to be constructed in Mahendragiri.

A good bet would be 2020 as the earliest date when the SC engine could be ready for testing.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby Suraj » 29 Apr 2015 23:24

Thanks, KrishG!

I found this interesting documentary while digging into the subject:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMbl_ofF3AM

The Engines That Came In From The Cold
This is a Channel 4 Equinox Documentary on the history of development of the NK-33 engines that were originally developed for the Soviet N1 moon rocket. The Atlas V RD-180 generation of rocket engines is now applying this 'closed cycle' or staged combustion principle in order to achieve much greater efficiency. Contains rare footage and interviews with veterans of the early Soviet Space program: including Vasily Mishin and Boris Chertok

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby arshyam » 30 Apr 2015 01:26

GSLV integrated test successful - P. Sudhakar, The Hindu

The fifth phase of the integrated test of Geosynchronous Satellite Launch Vehicle (GSLV) for 635 seconds in the atmospheric pressure conditions was successfully conducted at ISRO’s Propulsion Complex (IRPC) at Mahendragiri in the district on Tuesday evening.

A.S. Kiran Kumar, ISRO Chairman, witnessed the test that was conducted between 4.58 p.m. and 5.08 p.m. along with D. Karthikesan, director of IRPC , and a team of scientists. Since the fifth phase of GSLV’s integrated test has met all preset parameters, the ISRO might use this launch vehicle for taking heavier payloads into the geosynchronous orbit in December 2016 as planned.

Various stages of GSLV with the indigenously developed cryogenic engine are being tested in atmospheric and vacuum conditions for different durations ranging from a few seconds to a few minutes. On crossing these hurdles, the qualification tests of the launch vehicle would be conducted after integrating various stages of GSLV.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby Vipul » 30 Apr 2015 02:12

How ISRO developed the indigenous cryogenic engine.

This is from last year when GSLV II was launched.

The year was 1987. V Gnanagandhi, head of the cryogenic engine project at the Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO), wanted to set up a high­pressure hydrogen plant in Mahendragiri near Thiruvanathapuram. But an official from the supplier of the machinery, a German company called Messers Grieshem, suddenly threw a spanner in the works.

"There are snakes and elephants on the roads in India," he told them. "How can I come there?" Gnanagandhi reached a compromise with the Grieshem executive. He need come only as far as Mumbai the entire ISRO team would meet him there. He agreed. The German—his name is now forgotten—agreed to sell the machinery, but was also inquisitive. "Why do you need a high­pressure hydrogen facility?" he asked.

"We are using it to launch rockets," came the answer. "You cannot just fill an engine tank with high­pressure hydrogen," he told the ISRO team. "It will evaporate in no time." The ISRO engineers, thus, learned a thing or two about dealing with hydrogen at high pressure.

A few days ago, Gnanagandhi retired after watching his baby fly on a Geostationary Launch Vehicle (GSLV), marking the culmination of a journey that was shot through with frustrations, technology denials, quiet diplomacy and sheer hard work. After two decades of development, India developed the cryogenic technology, giving it the much­needed capability to launch medium­sized satellites in a geostationary orbit, and joined an exclusive club of six nations. But on that day in 1987, at their Mumbai Guest House, ISRO engineers, led by Gnanagandhi, were taught a thing or two about hydrogen under pressure by their German guest.

Obtaining The Engine Brought into the nascent cryogenic engine team in 1984, Gnanagandhi had begun his job with clean slate. He had not even heard about the cryogenic engine. He didn't know how to get liquid oxygen or liquid hydrogen, let alone how to use them in an engine. But he learned quickly, set up the facilities, and made a one­tonne prototype engine by 1988. It blew up during a test. "We had used liquid nitrogen to clean the nozzle," says Gnanagandhi. "And nitrogen solidifies and clogs the nozzle at liquid oxygen temperatures."

ISRO was led by UR Rao at that time. ISRO had been planning larger rockets. Cryogenic engines were absolutely essential to put satellites in geostationary orbit, but the technology was difficult and a closely guarded secret. India had offers of engines. US firm General Dynamics offered first at a high price, and so did the French. It was then that Russia, which was going through difficult times, offered it at a reasonable price. India signed a deal in 1991 for two engines and the technology.

Everything looked good, but soon wasn't. The Americans pressurised the Russians into reneging on the deal, saying its engines will be used for nuclear missiles. ISRO would get the engines but not the technology. UR Rao went to talk to the Americans, and to tell them something that everybody knew: cryogenic engines cannot be used in a missile. But the US had strong commercial interests in denying India the technology. Rao's meeting with vice­president Al Gore was futile.

Rao then negotiated with the Russians. "I told them that I had paid them too much money for just two engines," says Rao. "If you are not giving me the technology, give me six more engines." Eventually ISRO got seven engines. However, flying them was not a simple matter as there were no data about their performance. The engines that ISRO got hadn't been flown yet in any rocket. ISRO engineers discovered they had to work hard to make the engines fly in their launch vehicle. "We found that the Russian engines did not perform as well as we expected," says Vishnu Kartha, who now heads the cryogenic project.
If flying the Russian engines was hard, copying the engine design was harder. The Russians had designed these engines in the 1960s but not flown them, probably because they were still not flight ready. Moreover, they used a technology— called stage combustion—that was efficient but difficult. It made the engine a bit heavy but gave the highest efficiencies for a specific amount of propellant. The indigenous engines had to be exactly like the Russian engines: the GSLV has already been planned based on them.

The Indian government gave a formal approval to the Cryogenic Upper Stage (CUS) project in 1994. The budget was Rs 300 crore. ISRO then made a key decision quite in keeping with its tradition: involve the private industry from the beginning. "We didn't want to first develop the technology and then transfer it," says BN Suresh, now Vikram Sarabhai distinguished professor in ISRO.

The two major partners were Godrej and the MTAR Technologies. Godrej set up the rotary vacuum brazing facility in Mumbai. Brazing was a key and difficult technology, and setting up the facility took more than a year. MTAR made the turbo pump and some other components.The sophistication of the cryogenic engine would be obvious from a few simple facts. The liquid hydrogen is kept at ­253 degree centigrade. The turbo pump operates at 500 degree centigrade and rotates 40,000 times a minute. The combustion temperature is around 3,000 degree centigrade. The pressure inside the combustion chamber is 60 times the atmospheric pressure. The chamber wall has to withstand the high pressure and temperature. No material can withstand a temperature of 3,000 degree centigrade, and so the combustion chamber wall has to be cooled.

ISRO's cryogenic team made the first 7.5­tonne engine in 2000. It blew up while being tested. The hydrogen valve had prematurely closed, affecting the oxygenhydrogen ratio in the combustion chamber. "We became failure­hardened," says Mohammed Mulsim, head of the cryogenic project at that time. "After each failure we went back not to the Russian engines but to the drawing board." They succeeded finally in 2002. The indigenous cryogenic engine was qualified in 2003. It took another four years to integrate it with the GSLV.

But the first flight failed in 2010, as the engine shut down three seconds after ignition. ISRO then conducted a thorough review of the entire GSLV project. For the cryogenic engine, special vacuum testing facilities were created at Mahendragiri. By 2013 end, every likely cause of failure was looked into. A few days before the GSLV flew on January 5, ISRO officials conducted a review meeting to clear the vehicle for launch. Such meetings usually take several hours. This one ended in 45 minutes. Every possibility had been analysed, and project leaders were quietly confident.

When it flew, the GSLV put the satellite into orbit with a precision never possible with the Russian engines. "We took a long time to develop the engine," says ISRO chairman K Radhakrishnan, "but all countries took 10­15 years to develop cryogenic technology." ISRO now has to develop a more powerful engine, to put a 4­ tonne satellite into geosynchronous orbit. The older generation that led the first cryogenic engine development has retired. It has been such a long journey, it gave the younger generation now in command a deep understanding of cryogenic technology. And they have long stints left in ISRO.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby Vayutuvan » 30 Apr 2015 04:11

From the article linked by Vipul above:

The ISRO engineers, thus, learned a thing or two about dealing with hydrogen at high pressure.


What? Why would ISRO engineers learn this from some random German from some random German company? That too in 1987 :!:

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby ramana » 30 Apr 2015 04:48

VT Please look at the next few paras. The engineer did not have the knowledge yet. Awesome learning curve!!!

I always wondered about the 1988 engine failure. So it was the pre cleaning with liquid N2 that clogged the fuel path.

Good Failure Diagnosis.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby SSSalvi » 30 Apr 2015 21:18

^
^
Those were the days when Google was not there and hi-tec subjects were only available in the papers read at Conferences and the proceedings of these conferences were highly priced for a Govt organisation library to procure because you had to face the Foreign Exchange sanctioning authorities to explain why you want to spend FE for just 'a book' . ( e.g. Why do you want Kuo for Control Systems?? Tell us how many books are there in your library covering the subject of Control Systems? )

So every drop of knowledge from any source was a boon.

Imagine 1977 .. the first lot of the the 'wonder transistor' OC72 had started to trickle in market ... and you are given the task of making a GPS using a block diagram brought by the Director who attended a international conference. Or a Monopulse Tracking Receiver based on WW-II manual of a Monopulse Radar!!

[I can only quote from examples in communications deptt ( based on own experience ) .. which is not as secretive a subject as Rockets.]

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby Rahul M » 30 Apr 2015 21:42

Salvi Sir, you should think of penning your experiences for the future generations. BR would be proud to host it.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby raj-senthil » 30 Apr 2015 21:42

ECIL gives an indigenous boost to rocket fuel system

Hyderabad: The Satish Dhawan Space Centre in Sriharikota plans to completely indigenise critical automation technology in the coming years to avoid dependence on other countries for technology.

As part of the effort, Hyderabad-based Electronics Corporation of India Limited on Tuesday delivered an indigenous programmable logic controller to the SDSC for use in its propellant filling systems for launch vehicles.

Speaking to the media on Tuesday at the ECIL, SDSC director Dr M.Y.S. Prasad said the Centre intended to cut down its import bill and instead buy from Indian companies.

The SDSC currently spends Rs 100 crore out of its Rs 700 crore annual budget on technology imports. Dr Prasad said, “Reducing foreign dependency is important. Of our current systems, 30 to 40 % are based on imports. Over the next three to four years, we want to use ECIL equipment for all critical applications.”

Dr Prasad explained that after further tests, the ECIL-built PLC would be used in the Polar Satellite Launch Vehicle Stage 4 propellant filling automation systems.

About 40 tonne of propellant is filled in the PSLV while 210 tonne of propellant is filled in the GSLV. “It is a very critical application because the equipment will help fill 40 tonne of propellant in just two hours without spilling a single drop.

The first real-time use of this equipment will be for the September or October PSLV launch,” Dr Prasad said. ECIL chairman P. Sudhakar said it took nearly two years of collaborative efforts to build the PLC.

“It is a momentous occasion for us. The entire system is indigenous along with the software. There are no vulnerabilities. ”

“Many critical systems need such automation equipment. If we use imported equipment, there may not be complete satisfaction at all times. And then it becomes difficult to sort out issues and perform diagnostics,” Mr Sudhakar added.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby Vayutuvan » 01 May 2015 03:15

SSSalvi wrote:[I can only quote from examples in communications deptt ( based on own experience ) .. which is not as secretive a subject as Rockets.]

Nuke triggers may be even a more secretive area. I have some reason to believe that they are gamma ray pulse generators with very finely etched transmission lines in an MIC. Not sure about tyhe frequency range though. Are uwaves at high enough frequency to start a chain reaction?

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby Suraj » 01 May 2015 06:23

Rahul M wrote:Salvi Sir, you should think of penning your experiences for the future generations. BR would be proud to host it.

Absolutely. A history of past efforts to gain technological knowledge in the face of such odds would make for a GREAT BRM/SRR paper. SSalviji, if you are interested, as BRM/SRR editor I would like to request you to write such an article, or collaborate with others here to do so. Please feel free to contact me at suraj dot brf at gmail about it, if you wish.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby member_23694 » 02 May 2015 18:17

http://isro.gov.in/successful-testing-o ... nic-engine

Video!!
great going ISRO. Now just launch it, 2016 end is tooo looooong

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby SSSalvi » 07 May 2015 03:37

ISRO has given 3 hi-res images obtained by Mangalyaan on their facebook. Nice ones.

Image 1
Image 2
Image 3

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby Shreeman » 07 May 2015 04:06

SSSalvi wrote:^
^
Those were the days when Google was not there and hi-tec subjects were only available in the papers read at Conferences and the proceedings of these conferences were highly priced for a Govt organisation library to procure because you had to face the Foreign Exchange sanctioning authorities to explain why you want to spend FE for just 'a book' . ( e.g. Why do you want Kuo for Control Systems?? Tell us how many books are there in your library covering the subject of Control Systems? )

So every drop of knowledge from any source was a boon.

Imagine 1977 .. the first lot of the the 'wonder transistor' OC72 had started to trickle in market ... and you are given the task of making a GPS using a block diagram brought by the Director who attended a international conference. Or a Monopulse Tracking Receiver based on WW-II manual of a Monopulse Radar!!

[I can only quote from examples in communications deptt ( based on own experience ) .. which is not as secretive a subject as Rockets.]


This wasnt just limited to rocket-science. Communication is a very good example, actually. The whole Sam Pitroda episode is quite instructive to those jumping on the import wagon. And the denial or lack of ability to absorb by filling in the blanks or working around the mistakes remains just as acute today. May be worse, for lack of motivation. For example -- actuators.

Even in theoretical computer science, not even a proper subject until late 90s, publications were very hard to get. You sat around proving stuff only to later find out at an inopportune and late time that it was ancient history in western literature. Think about wanting to graduate under such conditions with a thesis.

Today the publications are easily accessible, in part, because they are mostly worthless.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby Vipul » 07 May 2015 07:03

Report criticizes funding cuts for India’s space programme.

Funding cuts in the revised estimate for the space department’s key polar satellite launch vehicle (PSLV) and geosynchronous satellite launch vehicle (GSLV) projects has drawn criticism from Parliament’s standing committee on science, technology, environment and forests.In a report released on Tuesday, the panel also pulled up the department for delays in implementing projects, including astronomy satellite Astrosat and a proposed human space flight programme.

The report identified technical hurdles and project delays as the reasons for India lagging behind China in many areas of space science. The report stressed the need for greater industry participation in space programme and promotion of indigenous capabilities in related manufacturing. The panel was also critical of the space department for not putting in place a national committee to enhance industry participation.

Although the space department is capable of using 100% of its allocated grants, it has faced cuts in grants at the revised estimate stage in successive financial years, the panel noted. “This would delay or disrupt some of its programmes of strategic importance to the country,” said the report.

The fund cuts come at a time when some important launches of PSLV are scheduled during 2015-16. For the PSLV project, the budgetary estimate allocation of Rs.390 crore was reduced to Rs.71.50 crore in 2014-15 in the revised estimate.

There were concerns regarding the GSLV project for which budgetary allocation of Rs.180.1 crore in 2014-15 was reduced to Rs.107 crore due to delay in buying hardware and sub-systems for the first developmental flight.

The committee recommended that the space department utilize the allocated amount efficiently and in time to have minimal cuts at the revised estimate stage so that PSLV and GSLV launches proceed smoothly.

Noting that the launch of RISAT-1A launch schedule had been revised from 2017-18 to 2019, the committee said that hardly any progress had been made in the development of RISAT-1A and the project report is yet to be submitted for necessary approvals. “It is unacceptable that such projects are being repeatedly delayed on account of stated challenges and reasons that can early be addressed,” the report said.

On the human spaceflight programme, the committee has sought reasons for the underutilization of the allocated funds during the last two years and the manner in which the allocated amount of Rs.21.50 crore was proposed to be utilized during 2015-16. “It is true that much more needs to be done, the government can change the way funds are allocated and provide more flexibility to organisations like Isro and DRDO regarding the way funds are utilized,” said Ajey Lele, research fellow at New Delhi-based Institute for Defence Studies and Analyses. “But one must understand technology development is not well-defined and if parameters of technology are not met, then just meeting deadlines is not enough,”

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby Vayutuvan » 09 May 2015 03:25

Somehow my UG university environment was different (around that time). We had several copies of Hayt and Hughes, Hayt and Kemmerly, Kuo, van Valkenburg, Jordan and Balmain, Balabanian, BP Lathi etc. as well as all the important IEEE Transactions in our college library - leave alone the main university library, which had a lot of journals in Physical and biological sciences along with humanities.

Probably it was because one professor who was teaching Circuits analysis, Signal processing, Controls was from Urbana (where Kuo, ME van Valkenburg were working and Hayt got his PhD). A couple more from Harvard, Cornell, and on from IISc and another from Tokyo.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby SSridhar » 11 May 2015 09:44

Amrita University students progress in Mars rover challenge competition - The Hindu
Amrita University students, who constitute ‘The Rover Boyz’ team, have made progress in the international competition to design and build a Mars rover.

According to a release from the institution, the students have cleared the ‘Critical Design Review Stage’ of the University Rover Challenge and will compete in the final competition, to be held from May 28 to 30 at the Mars Desert Research Station, Utah, US.

The students’ team is one among the 23 selected from the 44 teams from eight countries.

The competition judges reviewed technical reports and video submissions from each of the teams that passed the Test Proposal round, the press release added.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby pankajs » 11 May 2015 20:16

ISRO ‏@isro 2h2 hours ago

Cartosat-1 Completes a Decade in orbit (2005 – 2015) http://www.isro.gov.in/pslv-c6-cartosat ... 80%93-2015
Some of the major applications carried out using Cartosat-1 data include (i) generation of urban base map at 1:10,000 scale for National Urban Information System for 152 towns, (ii) Generation of large scale topographic map at 1:10,000 scale for cartographic applications, (iii) Generation of DTM with bare earth orthometric heights for the Indian coasts on vulnerability of inundation due to Tsunami and Cyclone for INCOIS, (iv) Estimating the status of irrigation potential created and in identification of critical gaps for 103 Irrigation projects under Accelerated Irrigation Benefit Programme (AIBP), (v) Generation of State level DEM and mosaic of ortho-images at State level under Space Based Information Support for Decentralised Planning (SIS-DP), (vi) Planning of watershed and its concurrent monitoring and evaluation at periodic intervals, (vii) India-water resource Information system (India-WRIS), etc

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby raj-senthil » 13 May 2015 20:24

Chandrayaan-2 to be ready for launch by 2017


Country’s first soft landing on any astronomical body, says ISRO scientist.

Preparations for Chandrayaan-2, the second lunar exploration mission of the country, is progressing well and is expected to be ready for launch by 2017, Anil Bhardwaj, Director, Space Physics Laboratory, Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO), has said.

Delivering the Technology Day address as part of the State-level inauguration of the National Technology Day celebrations at the Malabar Palace here on Monday, Dr. Bhardwaj said that the ambitious mission involving complex technologies comprised releasing of an orbiter, a lander and a rover.

“This will also be the first-ever soft landing (landing which does not result in the destruction of the payload vehicle) by any Indian spacecraft on an astronomical body,” he said. The lander, he said, was planned to touch down in the polar region of the moon, which would also be the first such attempt by any nation.

He showed the video footage of a replica of the rover moving on a simulated lunar surface at the ISRO laboratory. He said that the ambitious project would be another landmark in the history of the country’s space ventures.

Stating that the first-ever solar orbiter mission of the country Aditya - L 1, to study the solar corona, would also be ready for launch by the end of 2017 or early 2018, Dr. Bhardwaj said that this would be the maiden attempt by the nation to reach the Lagrangian point 1 (L1) between the Earth and Sun.

The Mars Orbiter Mission (MOM) which was successfully launched by the country in September last year was still going strong after six months and had fuel for a few more years. “We expect the orbiter to serve at least for one more year surmounting the celestial challenges,” he said. Nearly 150 participants, including students, scientists, and research scholars, attended the programme, organised jointly by the Kerala State Council for Science, Technology and Environment (KSCSTE) and the Centre for Water Resources Development and Management (CWRDM).

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby Vipul » 15 May 2015 19:01

The Indian space agency is set to test its sophisticated, indigenously-built, multi-object tracking radar (MOTR) on a rocket flight next month while formal commissioning is expected to take three months time, said a senior official.

"The MOTR designed and developed by Satish Dhawan Space Centre (SDSC) will be tested next month during a PSLV (Polar Satellite Launch Vehicle) rocket flight. The formal commissioning of the system is expected to happen three months down the line," SDSC director M.Y.S. Prasad told reporters here.

The space scientists with justifiable pride were showcasing the state-of-the art radar that can track 10 objects simultaneously objects up to 30cm by 30cm at distance of 800 km. In case of objects of 50cm by 50 cm size, the radar can track at a slant range of 1,000 km.

"The Rs.245 crore MOTR can be termed as the classic example of a 'Make in India' project," Prasad said. According to him, a similar radar would cost around Rs.800 crore in the international markets and is mainly used for defence purposes.

"The software for operating the system and analysing the data was developed in-house and around Rs.100 crore value could be put for that," said V.Seshagiri Rao, the former project director. To the best of his knowledge only select group of countries have the capacity to build such radars in the world, Prasad said.

Prasad said Raythaeon, Northrop Grumman, Lockheed Martin, of the US, Thales, Canada-Europe, Elta of Israel and NEC of Japan have the capability to make such systems.

With this radar, ISRO acquires the capacity to handle its future missions involving atmospheric re-entry of space modules, having a protective eye on its space assets and track space debris.

Currently ISRO uses the space debris data provided by US space agency NASA. The commissioning of MOTR would provide real time data for ISRO.

"The project got the green signal in 2012 with a target to get the radar ready by February 2015 which was achieved," Prasad said.Excepting the radome that houses the radar, all other systems were domestically sourced.

"The radome which is radio frequency transparent was not available in the country," said P. Vijaya Saradhi, group director, management system area.Elaborating on the features of the radar, S.V.Subba Rao said the phased array radar antenna is stationary while its beam generated by 4,608 radiating elements can be steered.

He said the radar weighing 35 ton, 12 metre long and 8 metre tall rectangular could be turned in different directions and will be used to meet the range safety purposes during a rocket launch here.

According to Subba Rao, it is important to track all the targets of a rocket simultaneously for which MOTR would be used. The radar can also be used for vertical wind profiling and also be used at airports.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby JTull » 15 May 2015 20:12

Excepting the radome that houses the radar, all other systems were domestically sourced.

"The radome which is radio frequency transparent was not available in the country," said P. Vijaya Saradhi, group director, management system area.Elaborating on the features of the radar, S.V.Subba Rao said the phased array radar antenna is stationary while its beam generated by 4,608 radiating elements can be steered.


This radome theme is recurrent.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby SSSalvi » 16 May 2015 07:42

^^^
Recurrent? For any other system?

Radome for this project definitely needs a specialist who has handled such things ... Sphere of at least 8 M Radius.
Mechnanical stability is one thing.
RF design is complex. It is a RADAR. Should provide same PHASE change in all directions for Tx and Rx combined.
For a conventional Parabolic antenna distance bet Radome and Feed is constant .. This is a planer array so dist changes.

A new designer would not be able to absorb expenditure on 2 or 3 rounds of design changes for such a huge structure.

Unfortunately it is a job only for a few suppliers who have already handled similar situations .. or some new entrant who would not mind absorbing monetary loss in view of anticipatory new orders based on experience gained. ( This is not a 'moving item' .. requirement may be once in while )

BTW .. we had to remove radome covering the feed on a few antennas because it created heavy loss and reflection problems. Supplier had given specs but he did not have facility to test it. Instead of facing legalities he preferred to take back the rejected items. After all the material cost is few hundreds of Rs but finished product is 50K+ for the lowest quote ;) .
Radome size for this? A cylinder of 0.5M dia * 1M length !!!
Last edited by SSSalvi on 16 May 2015 08:11, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby Vayutuvan » 16 May 2015 08:10

Congrats to the Amrita Univeristy team. Good luck in the later phases.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby Varoon Shekhar » 19 May 2015 16:43

http://isro.org/astrosat-crossed-major- ... -initiated

ASTROSAT is the first dedicated Indian astronomy mission aimed at studying distant celestial objects. The mission is capable of performing observations in Ultraviolet (UV), optical, low and high energy X-ray wavebands at the same time. The satellite is planned to be launched during the second half of 2015 by PSLV C-34 to a 650 km near equatorial orbit around the Earth. It is significant to note that ASTROSAT is the first mission to be operated as a space observatory by ISRO.

All the payloads and sub-systems are integrated to the satellite. Mechanical fit checks of the satellite with PSLV payload adaptor were performed successfully. Last week, the spacecraft was fully assembled and switched ON. S.....

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby Vipul » 20 May 2015 02:04

India's dedicated astronomy satellite ASTROSAT fully assembled.

Scheduled to be launched later this year, ASTROSAT, the first dedicated Indian astronomy mission aimed at studying distant celestial objects is now fully assembled, ISRO said Tuesday.

"All the payloads and sub-systems are integrated to the satellite. Mechanical fit checks of the satellite with PSLV payload adaptor were performed successfully," ISRO has posted on its website.

It said "last week, the spacecraft was fully assembled and switched ON. Spacecraft parameters are normal, which indicates everything is functioning well."

In the coming days, Spacecraft will undergo several environmental tests like Electromagnetic Interference, Electromagnetic Compatibility, Thermal Vacuum, Vibration, Acoustic tests before shipment to Satish Dhawan Space Centre, Sriharikota, for launch, it added.

According to ISRO, the mission is capable of performing observations in Ultraviolet (UV), optical, low and high energy X-ray wavebands at the same time.

The satellite is planned to be launched during the second half of 2015 by PSLV C-34 to a 650 km near equatorial orbit around the Earth.

It is significant to note that ASTROSAT is the first mission to be operated as a space observatory by ISRO.

The space research organisation said ASTROSAT carries four X-ray payloads, one UV telescope and a charge particle monitor.

Apart from ISRO, four other Indian institutions -- Tata Institute of Fundamental Research, Indian Institute of Astrophysics, Inter-University Centre for Astronomy and Astrophysics and Raman Research Institute-- are involved in payload development.

Two of the payloads are in collaboration with Canadian Space Agency and University of Leiscester, UK, ISRO added.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby SSSalvi » 20 May 2015 02:58

2005 > 2008 > 2010 > 2012 >2013 ..... now finally 2015 seems to be a reality for Astro Launch.

After an initial lock-in period of about a year the data will be available in public domain along with appropriate software.

Astrononical observations are done in various bands. A galaxy appears so differently in each waveband.

Image

ASTROSAT will be able to make observations simultaneously in Visible, UV and X-Ray bands with its 5 instrument complement.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby Sagar G » 20 May 2015 20:51

Hot on Mars, but short everywhere else by M Matheswaran

ISRO’s steadily killing India’s digital dreams with its inability to provide satellite support, even for television

While ISRO’s recent Mars mission was a superb success, the latest CAG report (2014) tells a different tale — about the organisation’s poor planning and shoddy execution. Is that the reason why 75 per cent of Indian television’s transponder requirements are hired from foreign satellites? Where does that leave the dream of Digital India?

Today, space services have become indispensable facets of everyday life. For example, television is critically dependent on satellite-based transponders. India should have had a majority of its TV channels beamed through its own satellites, for which it should have created the requisite space capabilities. However, as the CAG report points out, India has failed to emerge as a player in the global satellite market.

Below expectations

From 300-odd channels in 2008, the Indian television industry more than doubled to 821 licensed channels in 2012. This is expected to grow to 1600 channels by 2017, of which 1300 are expected to be operational. The channels operate on C band, extended-C and Ku-bands. DTH services operate on Ku-band, a rapidly growing segment.

In order to enable this growth, the government had to scrap the “closed sky” policy that prevented the hiring of foreign transponders. Despite stiff opposition from the department of space, the government, recognising the mismatch between ISRO’s ability to provide transponder capacity and the industry’s requirement, declared an “open sky” in January 2000. The TV industry was allowed to hire foreign transponders with a caveat that all hiring be done for short periods through ISRO (Antrix). The objective was to shift to Indian satellites at the earliest — but this has not materialised. The CAG report has rightly blamed ISRO for poor planning and execution. It had planned for a target of 500 transponders on domestic satellites in the 11th Plan period (2007-12) and further increasing it to 800 transponders in the 12th Plan period (2012-17). In practice, it has been able to operationalise only 187 transponders during the 11th Plan period. In the fast growing and strategically important Ku-band segment, ISRO has been able to provide only 48 Ku-band transponders as against the target of 218 transponders, forcing DTH operators to shift to foreign satellites. All this has translated into higher costs as well as a huge revenue loss. In C-band, only 160 channels out of 660 operational channels are carried by transponders on Indian satellites, which is barely 25 per cent. Similarly, out of 76 Ku-band transmitters used by DTH (as of July 2013), only 19 (25 per cent) are on Indian satellites. This shortfall is largely due to ISRO launching only three satellites as against the planned target of nine satellites in the 11th Plan period.

In the early 1990s, India was seen as a strong contender to capture the growing satellite launch market by virtue of its low cost and better success rate. But this has failed to materialise so far. To this day India’s launch capability is limited to its workhorse PSLV, which can place only up to 1.5-tonne satellites in orbit. The major launch market relates to geostationary orbits, which will require ISRO to cross the 4-tonne payload barrier in its GSLV launch capability.

Limited launch capability

ISRO’s attempts to achieve this through cryogenic engine development, with Russian cooperation, in the early 1990s were scuttled by the Americans citing MTCR provisions to force Russian withdrawal, thus, putting India out of the global satellite launch market as a strategic player. The successful launch of GSLV in January this year is just a preliminary step to prove its cryogenic development. It will need few more developmental launches over two-three years, before it can establish its payload launch capability of at least three tonnes. There is also the problem of poor reliability and longevity of INSAT satellites, which further reduces Indian transponder availability.

Therefore ISRO’s failure to effectively strategise its transponder availability has hurt Indian strategic interests. Not only have foreign satellite operators garnered more business, they have also occupied five orbital slots in Indian skies; it will difficult to evict them later. That Antrix has negotiated these contracts for its revenue generation is no consolation. ISRO could have addressed this issue by launching more of its Geo satellites through the EU. It needs to concentrate its efforts to accelerate India’s GSLV capability and satellite reliability. Clearly, relying on foreign satellites is not only a commercial loss but a security risk to our space capabilities.

The writer, a retired air marshal, was deputy chief of Integrated Defence Staff, and a test pilot. He is an advisor to HAL and the aerospace taskforce of Ficci

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby SSSalvi » 21 May 2015 01:26

^^^
India has a capability to make satellites. They work.
Quoting from ISRO website-
Currently operational communication satellites are INSAT-3A, INSAT-3C, INSAT-3E, INSAT-4A, INSAT-4B, INSAT-4CR, GSAT-8, GSAT-10 and GSAT-12.
The system with a total of 195 transponders in the C, Extended C and Ku-bands provides services to telecommunications, television broadcasting, satellite news gathering, societal applications, weather forecasting, disaster warning and Search and Rescue operations.

Some are small and and some large ones so we can say this is equivalent to 6 or 7 large satellites. ( still not as large as the latest technology ).
Report says this is only 25% of requirement so we need another 15 to 20 satellites.
What Would be better?
- Pay in foreign currency to launch such satellites using foreign launchers? or
- let users hire transponders on foreign satellites ? ( Users would have to pay ... either to ISRO or to other satellite owner )

CAG slamming ISRO for GSLV in 2014 is ( to some extent ) OK if we slam ourselves for things like Battle tank, Chip fabrication and similar things.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby ramana » 21 May 2015 02:52

So MM is now a space expert!!!!

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby member_22539 » 21 May 2015 06:20

^Hey, this is a well-paying gig, who cares of the MSM is stupid enough to ask him to write a hit piece on ISRO. They don't really see a difference between a SLV and a missile, or for that matter a fighter jet.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby SSridhar » 21 May 2015 08:42

India developing atomic clocks for use on satellites - The Hindu
The Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) is developing rubidium-based, high-precision atomic clocks for use in its next series of navigation satellites, ISRO Chairman A.S. Kiran Kumar said on Wednesday.

The ISRO is building the seven-satellite regional navigation constellation. The four that are up use European atomic clocks. These satellites, meant for civil and military uses, need to show the exact position and time of persons and objects on earth. So, they should keep extremely accurate time as they send signals.

The ISRO’s Space Applications Centre in Ahmedabad is developing prototypes of atomic clocks, along with the CSIR’s National Physical Laboratory in New Delhi, Dr. Kiran Kumar said on the sidelines of an event organised by the Metrology Society here.

“We still have to make qualified and flight-worthy versions. Our next generation navigation satellites will carry our own clocks” when they start replacing the IRNSS-1 series after their life of 10 years, he said. The IRNSS has commonly been called India’s own local ‘GPS.’

A senior scientist says the atomic clock figures among the top critical technologies to be developed indigenously.

Each navigation spacecraft carries an active and two stand-by clocks. The home-made ones need to be compact and fuel-efficient in space.

Dr. Kiran Kumar said the regional navigation fleet was expected to create many entrepreneurs and applications that would use position-based information.

The ISRO would drive navigation in the country with chipsets and other smart products.

A Hyderabad company was making a dongle-like tool that could be plugged to a laptop or a tablet PC.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby Philip » 21 May 2015 11:20

US's revolutionary space plane with a new propulsion system. Any idea whether we are also working on new propulsion systems apart from the Hyper-BMos?

http://www.theguardian.com/science/2015 ... ce-mission
Mysterious space plane blasts off for secretive US air force mission

X-37B craft launched from Cape Canaveral on Wednesday, its fourth long orbital flight in five years – but many details of the trip are being kept secret

Captain Christopher Hoyler, an air force spokesman, said that the vehicle’s mission ‘cannot be specified’ but that it will enhance ‘the development of the concept of operations for reusable space vehicles’. Photograph: EPA

Alan Yuhas in New York
Wednesday 20 May 2015 16.12 BST Last modified on Wednesday 20 May 2015 17.27 BST

A mysterious robotic space plane launched its secretive mission for the US air force on Wednesday, its fourth long orbital flight in five years.

The X-37B launched from Cape Canaveral, Florida, for the reusable spacecraft’s fourth mission. Its third mission lasted a record-breaking 675 days in space, and ended when it landed at an air force base in California in October 2014.

The spacecraft’s mission, including the technology on board and what its objectives are, are secret, but the air force has revealed at least one detail. In a statement, the air force said the X-37B will test a new electric engine called a Hall thruster, described as an “electric propulsion device that produces thrust by ionizing and accelerating a noble gas, usually xenon”.

A United Launch Alliance Atlas V rocket is rolled out Tuesday in Cape Canaveral, Florida. Photograph: United Launch Alliance/AP

Major General Tom Masiello, the commander of the air force research laboratory, space and missile systems center, said the X-37B mission would test a wide range of technologies. The higher-powered electric thruster could improve the efficiency of those technologies.

“Secure comms, [intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance], missile warning, weather prediction, precision navigation and timing all rely on [space science], and the domain is increasingly contested,” Masiello said in a statement. “Less fuel burn lowers the cost to get up there, plus it enhances spacecraft operational flexibility, survivability and longevity.”

Captain Christopher Hoyler, an air force spokesman, said that the vehicle’s mission “cannot be specified” but that it will enhance “the development of the concept of operations for reusable space vehicles”.

In a statement, the director of the air force rapid capabilities office, Randy Walden, said: “With the demonstrated success of the first three missions, we’re able to shift our focus from initial checkouts of the vehicle to testing of experimental payloads.”

The Pentagon has consistently denied over the years that X-37B missions test space weapon capabilities.

Built by Boeing’s Phantom Works division, the spacecraft resembles Nasa’s classic space shuttle design in miniature; it is a fourth of the size of the original shuttles, at about 9.5ft tall and 29ft long, and is operated robotically. It runs partially on solar power, and probably tests a wide range of avionics, advanced spacecraft design technology and experimental spy sensors.

Nasa has also joined the X-37B experiment, sending dozens of material samples, including thermal coatings, ink and window substitutes, up in the shuttle’s payload. The Nasa experiment will test how those materials withstand the hazards of space, such as radiation and extreme temperatures. The original X-37A shuttle was of Nasa’s design, but the program was cancelled in 2006, at which point the air force and the military technologists at Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (Darpa) adopted the program.

An X-37B orbital test vehicle is seen at Vandenberg air force base, California. Photograph: US air force via Nasa/AP

Also launched into space are 10 small satellites called CubeSats, including one known as the LightSail, developed by the nonprofit Planetary Society. The tiny satellite will unfurl four solar-powered Mylar sails after a month in space, for a first short test of solar sailing near Earth. Other CubeSats will perform propulsion and communication experiments for the US Naval Academy, California Polytechnic State University and the Aerospace Industries Association.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby akashganga » 21 May 2015 15:58

After Mars, Isro aims for Venus probe in 2-3 years http://www.asianage.com/india/after-mar ... -years-335
cool.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby Ramu » 21 May 2015 16:10

Matheswaran is kayani of IAF, who couldn't pull off a coup on HAL.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby RamaY » 21 May 2015 17:42

SSSalvi wrote:2005 > 2008 > 2010 > 2012 >2013 ..... now finally 2015 seems to be a reality for Astro Launch.

After an initial lock-in period of about a year the data will be available in public domain along with appropriate software.

Astrononical observations are done in various bands. A galaxy appears so differently in each waveband.

Image

ASTROSAT will be able to make observations simultaneously in Visible, UV and X-Ray bands with its 5 instrument complement.


Cool...

Is there any way to superimpose all these images into a single view to show the absolute existence of entire electromagnetic spectrum?

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby kit » 21 May 2015 18:06

Philip wrote:US's revolutionary space plane with a new propulsion system. Any idea whether we are also working on new propulsion systems apart from the Hyper-BMos?

http://www.theguardian.com/science/2015 ... ce-mission
Mysterious space plane blasts off for secretive US air force mission

X-37B craft launched from Cape Canaveral on Wednesday, its fourth long orbital flight in five years – but many details of the trip are being kept secret

Captain Christopher Hoyler, an air force spokesman, said that the vehicle’s mission ‘cannot be specified’ but that it will enhance ‘the development of the concept of operations for reusable space vehicles’. Photograph: EPA

Alan Yuhas in New York
Wednesday 20 May 2015 16.12 BST Last modified on Wednesday 20 May 2015 17.27 BST

A mysterious robotic space plane launched its secretive mission for the US air force on Wednesday, its fourth long orbital flight in five years.

The X-37B launched from Cape Canaveral, Florida, for the reusable spacecraft’s fourth mission. Its third mission lasted a record-breaking 675 days in space, and ended when it landed at an air force base in California in October 2014.

The spacecraft’s mission, including the technology on board and what its objectives are, are secret, but the air force has revealed at least one detail. In a statement, the air force said the X-37B will test a new electric engine called a Hall thruster, described as an “electric propulsion device that produces thrust by ionizing and accelerating a noble gas, usually xenon”.

A United Launch Alliance Atlas V rocket is rolled out Tuesday in Cape Canaveral, Florida. Photograph: United Launch Alliance/AP

Major General Tom Masiello, the commander of the air force research laboratory, space and missile systems center, said the X-37B mission would test a wide range of technologies. The higher-powered electric thruster could improve the efficiency of those technologies.

“Secure comms, [intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance], missile warning, weather prediction, precision navigation and timing all rely on [space science], and the domain is increasingly contested,” Masiello said in a statement. “Less fuel burn lowers the cost to get up there, plus it enhances spacecraft operational flexibility, survivability and longevity.”

Captain Christopher Hoyler, an air force spokesman, said that the vehicle’s mission “cannot be specified” but that it will enhance “the development of the concept of operations for reusable space vehicles”.

In a statement, the director of the air force rapid capabilities office, Randy Walden, said: “With the demonstrated success of the first three missions, we’re able to shift our focus from initial checkouts of the vehicle to testing of experimental payloads.”

The Pentagon has consistently denied over the years that X-37B missions test space weapon capabilities.

Built by Boeing’s Phantom Works division, the spacecraft resembles Nasa’s classic space shuttle design in miniature; it is a fourth of the size of the original shuttles, at about 9.5ft tall and 29ft long, and is operated robotically. It runs partially on solar power, and probably tests a wide range of avionics, advanced spacecraft design technology and experimental spy sensors.

Nasa has also joined the X-37B experiment, sending dozens of material samples, including thermal coatings, ink and window substitutes, up in the shuttle’s payload. The Nasa experiment will test how those materials withstand the hazards of space, such as radiation and extreme temperatures. The original X-37A shuttle was of Nasa’s design, but the program was cancelled in 2006, at which point the air force and the military technologists at Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (Darpa) adopted the program.

An X-37B orbital test vehicle is seen at Vandenberg air force base, California. Photograph: US air force via Nasa/AP

Also launched into space are 10 small satellites called CubeSats, including one known as the LightSail, developed by the nonprofit Planetary Society. The tiny satellite will unfurl four solar-powered Mylar sails after a month in space, for a first short test of solar sailing near Earth. Other CubeSats will perform propulsion and communication experiments for the US Naval Academy, California Polytechnic State University and the Aerospace Industries Association.



how are ion engines different from the one above ? i think they are in use for some time on spacecraft on a smaller scale ?

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby ramana » 21 May 2015 18:20

Philip, Ion engines are also called Hall effect thrusters in US.
Most likely this plane has a larger than usual ion engine.
Key words: Hall effect, electric & xenon

ISRO has a large xenon powered ion engine.

Please look up their website.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby Vipul » 21 May 2015 18:23

India to Launch Communications Satellite for Strategic Applications Soon.

India will launch an advanced communications satellite (GSAT-6) in July or August for strategic applications, its space agency chief said on Wednesday.
"We will launch GSAT-6 for strategic applications in July-end or August beginning, with a special antenna that will have a capability to use a handheld device to communicate from anywhere," Indian Space Research Organisation (Isro) chairman A.S. Kiran Kumar told reporters in Bengaluru.

Isro will use a heavy rocket - geosynchronous satellite launch vehicle (GSLVA Mark II) to launch the 2-tonne GSAT-6 with 10 special transponders from its spaceport at Sriharikota in Andhra Pradesh.

"The six-metre diameter antenna will be one of the scientific instruments onboard the satellite. We are making optical instruments for measurements using optimal techniques," Kiran Kumar said on the margins of a function here.

The instruments are also used in telescopes of 1.2 metre and 0.7 metre mirrors, which are measured to nanometre accuracy.

Though the space agency was to launch the satellite earlier for the city-based Devas Multimedia Services Ltd under a pact with its commercial arm Antrix Corporation, the government cancelled the $300 million deal in February 2011 invoking sovereignty and decided to use it for strategic needs.

Under the annulled deal, Antrix was to lease transponders of GSAT-6 and GSAT-6A to Devas for allowing it to offer digital multimedia services using S-band wavelength (spectrum), reserved for strategic use of the country.

Earlier, the Isro chief flagged off a three-day seminar, symposium and expo on metrology at the Central Manufacturing Technology Institute (CMTI), organised by the Metrology Society of India, southern region on the occasion of 'World Metrology Day', celebrated on May 20.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby Varoon Shekhar » 21 May 2015 19:59

"Quoting from ISRO website-
Quote:
Currently operational communication satellites are INSAT-3A, INSAT-3C, INSAT-3E, INSAT-4A, INSAT-4B, INSAT-4CR, GSAT-8, GSAT-10 and GSAT-12.
The system with a total of 195 transponders in the C, Extended C and Ku-b"

Why hasn't the site mentioned GSAT-14 and GSAT-16. Both of those satellites would be fully operational now.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby Varoon Shekhar » 21 May 2015 20:08

When the term "strategic applications" is used, does it mean that the satellite( GSAT-6) will only be used by the government and military/DRDO etc, or that some of the capacity will be strategic and some civilian i.e telecom, I&B.


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