Indian Space Programme Discussion

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby member_28108 » 22 Sep 2015 14:41

I think that they may not try to make the orbit less elliptical for two reasons - reduction of fuel and two - they have a unique orbit that gives both closeup and full disc images (These are supposed to be the best full disc images obtained so far)- so when having best of two worlds and the time - they may choose to adjust the science and data collection to their advantage.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby Neela » 22 Sep 2015 14:46

Singha wrote:I wuz thinking the could make the fab ops more commercially viable by supplying chips to automotive, electrical and other industries in india.


Indeed this too, is a possibility. Slap RAM,ROM,Gen purpose IOs ( GPIO ) onto the main die and you have a microcontroller.
Make instructions avaialble to electrical appliance producers and you have a start.

Automotive - Completely completely different ball game sir. Firstly device failure is not an option.
Several redundancies builtin. And environment testing takes years to complete. Huge investments needed and without firm orders its a very risky proposition.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby SSSalvi » 22 Sep 2015 14:59

Come 28th September 2015, India's workhorse rocket PSLV will carry 8 satellites to space.
This is an interesting launch to watch, especially, how the vehicle will be maneuvered to release these satellites because, 7 satellites will be placed in polar orbit ( Inclinations between 97 and 98 degrees ), while the ASTROSAT will be placed in near Equatorial orbit ( with an inclination of 6 degrees ).

ISRO is yet to publish details of Launch methodology.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby SSSalvi » 22 Sep 2015 15:13

srin wrote:Is there a possibility to do a trade-off ? Use the remaining fuel to make it a less elliptical orbit and get it closer, so it can complete orbits faster and get close up pics ?


Currently the orbit is such that the apogee is fixed towards Sun giving no chance to obtain image at its closest approach where there is a night time darkness.

So just a small push to come out of sun synchronicity will provide ample chances to obtain close observations with good sun illumination while retaining the advantage of current high elliptical orbit.

Of course we do not know the implications of such orbit on solar power generation or thermal balance of satellite.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby prashanth » 22 Sep 2015 17:29

Neela wrote:Automotive - Completely completely different ball game sir. Firstly device failure is not an option.
Several redundancies builtin. And environment testing takes years to complete. Huge investments needed and without firm orders its a very risky proposition.


Aren't all these requirements met if Vikram 1601 is to be used inside a satellite. Low failure probability, redundancy and robustness to withstand environmental variations in space, mechanical vibrations during launch. I thought the main obstacle for entering automotive sector is the production capability to support huge market.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby Neela » 22 Sep 2015 17:50

prashanth wrote:
Neela wrote:Automotive - Completely completely different ball game sir. Firstly device failure is not an option.
Several redundancies builtin. And environment testing takes years to complete. Huge investments needed and without firm orders its a very risky proposition.


Aren't all these requirements met if Vikram 1601 is to be used inside a satellite. Low failure probability, redundancy and robustness to withstand environmental variations in space, mechanical vibrations during launch. I thought the main obstacle for entering automotive sector is the production capability to support huge market.


Passenger safety Sir. if you have a micrcontroller that decides when airbags should be deployed or another which controls stability in a 2-wheel drive vehicle, it should work under all sorts of environment conditions.
I recall one example vividly given by someone: if the car is driven below a HV electric cables (large electric/magnetifc fields -> electro-magnetic intereference) , no change should be seen on any of the operating parameters.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby Varoon Shekhar » 22 Sep 2015 17:55

[quote="SSSalvi"]"Come 28th September 2015, India's workhorse rocket PSLV will carry 8 satellites to space.
7 satellites will be placed in polar orbit ( Inclinations between 97 and 98 degrees ), while the ASTROSAT will be placed in near Equatorial orbit ( with an inclination of 6 degrees )."

It looks like 7 satellites after all. I posted 8 a few days back, because I thought there would be 2 Canadian sats on board. Only one.

That's really interesting about the launch or trajectory variation! Where is the info on this? The one time ISRO placed satellites in different orbits was in Oct 2001, where an Indian and German satellite were sent into the same orbit, while the Belgian satellite
"PROBA" was sent into a higher orbit, by extra firing of the thrusters of the fourth stage of the PSLV.


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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby prashanth » 22 Sep 2015 19:26

Neela wrote:Passenger safety Sir.


No 'Sir' please.
You have a point here. This requirement too must be met, if not already done, by the time ISRO attempts manned space missions.
For now, I am happy that the first indigenous processor has been put to use.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby SSSalvi » 22 Sep 2015 20:35

^^^
^^^
^^^

Unlike the other missions ISRO has not given sat release maneuvers this time.

We only know that 1st sat to be released is ASTROSAT , to be released about 35 seconds after 4th stage closure at 650 kms altitude.

Then LAPAN, NLS and 4 LEMURs will be released.
====

Here all know about ASTROSAT payloads, still I have made a short compilation here.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby JTull » 22 Sep 2015 21:41

prashanth wrote:
Neela wrote:Passenger safety Sir.


No 'Sir' please.
You have a point here. This requirement too must be met, if not already done, by the time ISRO attempts manned space missions.
For now, I am happy that the first indigenous processor has been put to use.


I think the article implied that the processor already existed using 800nm wafers, just that first samples have been successfully produced using the new lot of 180nm wafers.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby Vayutuvan » 22 Sep 2015 22:20

Neela wrote: Which means you need special compilers which translate high level code to these instruction sets.

Neela: No special compilers needed. Today's compiler technology is all table driven through out all the stages. Front ends can be separated from the back ends cleanly. Even some architecture independent optimization can be done on intermediate code which can then be used to generate machine code from after which another pass of optimization can be done.

Essentially one has as many front ends as the high level languages to be supported (actually they are all captured in the BNF and fed to same a parser generator) and one back end to xlate to an intermediate representation some high level optimizations performed and then code generators for different instructions sets.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby vasu raya » 23 Sep 2015 08:25

if govt. got a foundry, Private companies can have their designs realized in bulk with it or you could outsource some base designs to be taken over by them for commercial purposes.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby Hiten » 23 Sep 2015 16:40

how can India's RLV be termed as a TSTO vehicle?
Stage 1 - It would lift off from the ground using a Booster Rocket
Stage 2 - It would switch to an Air breathing propulsion engine, be powered by it as long as it has the atmosphere
Stage 3 - Switch to SCE once it no longer has atmosphere for Oxygen requirement

If Stage 1 is not to be considered as a Stage for the RLV, why not?
What am I missing?


okay, realised, i think.
For 1 to be considered a stage, it must get separated from the STS following completion of operation. Here, the Air Breathing engine & SCE will continue to be fixed to the RLV. So, they would both constitute Stage 2 of the RLV.

correct me if i'm wrong.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby member_28108 » 23 Sep 2015 19:56

The Semicryogenic Booster rocket is the first stage . The air breathing engine is to return it back to earth.The second stage is the cryogenic stage.

The first stage will be powered by a semi cryogenic winged booster capable of flying back and landing on a runway near the launch site like a conventional aircraft after burnout.

The second stage will be cryogenic. It will deliver the satellite into orbit, de-orbit and re-enter the atmosphere and parachute down to a soft landing on balloons.


Image

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby SSridhar » 24 Sep 2015 09:00

‘It has lifted brand of India, ISRO’ - Madhumitha, The Hindu
The historic first Indian Mars Orbiter Mission, which completes a year around Mars on September 24, may be propelling India and ISRO to be the big daddy of space in this region.

It has significantly lifted the brand of India and ISRO abroad and spurred planetary aspirations of many countries, according to ISRO Chairman A.S. Kiran Kumar.

“Many countries now want to work with us and fund their own Mars and other missions,” he told The Hindu on the eve of MOM’s first anniversary in the Mars orbit.

Without naming any agency, he said at least one Gulf country wants to kick-start its space activities by launching a Mars mission with ISRO’s help {We know that is UAE}. A few other Asian nations are also sharpening their space plans, purely egged on by the MOM effect.

South Korea plans to consult and involve ISRO in a proposed lunar mission.

It may take many months to draft blueprints of some of these collaborations. ISRO may be involved in planning and technical advice. It would prefer to pass on the building of spacecraft and sub-systems to a capable domestic industry while doing the launch itself, he said. sThe mission has also “advertised” the PSLV launch vehicle which launched MOM.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby SSridhar » 24 Sep 2015 09:06

MOM’s one year in space: ISRO to rejoice quietly - Madhumathi D.S., The Hindu
A year back on September 24, the country’s space scientists made history by precisely slotting the first Indian Mars spacecraft around the red planet — with just a long-haul ‘nudge’ to it.

As the Mars Orbiter Mission (MOM) completes one year of orbiting around Mars, its parent, the Indian Space Research Organisation, millions of kilometres away on Earth, soberly marks MOM’s first Martian birthday as a low-key internal affair.

Right from building the spacecraft to its 10-month space journey in a watertight schedule, the unprecedented one-shot success of MOM has gone down more as a management marvel than an engineering one. For, opportunities to send missions to Mars come up once in about 26 months. If ISRO had missed launching it on November 5, 2013 and reaching it to Mars on September 24, 2014, the next best date would have been in 2017–18.

“It is a happy occasion. On this day we are only releasing an atlas of new and old colour pictures sent by the Mars Colour Camera on the spacecraft,” said ISRO Chairman A.S. Kiran Kumar.

When the mission was on, he was the Director of Space Applications Centre, Ahmedabad, which built the instruments on MOM.

As the low-profile Chairman of the Mission Review Committee, he is also credited by MOM’s many teams as the man who quietly steered the Rs. 450-crore mission to success with frequent brainstorming, meticulous reviews and conjuring up critical alternative plans.

Mr. Kiran Kumar, who is also Secretary, Department of Space, told The Hindu , “MOM was a great programme that surpassed all our initial expectations, outlived its intended life of six months and survived solar [blackout in June]. The experience was stimulating as it showed us so many possibilities of doing things. It adds to our confidence as it [validated] all the plans to build a spacecraft [that can] survive difficult conditions on the way to Mars and near it.”

Attributing the success to good planning, he said, “All that we visualised has come true. We now look forward to seeing its data coming in for a long time about both the Martian surface and atmosphere.”

No other country or agency has achieved the feat in its first attempt although Soviet Russia, the U.S. and the European Space Agency have sent 52 missions to Mars, including failures, since the 1960s. NASA sent MAVEN around the same time as MOM.

With 35 kg of fuel still left, MOM is expected to go elliptically around Mars for many years.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby Hiten » 24 Sep 2015 09:09

prasannasimha wrote:The Semicryogenic Booster rocket is the first stage . The air breathing engine is to return it back to earth.The second stage is the cryogenic stage.

The first stage will be powered by a semi cryogenic winged booster capable of flying back and landing on a runway near the launch site like a conventional aircraft after burnout.

The second stage will be cryogenic. It will deliver the satellite into orbit, de-orbit and re-enter the atmosphere and parachute down to a soft landing on balloons.


https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-TvP9 ... oncept.jpg


there seems to be a lack of clarity on the Air-breathing stage of the RLV.
Only source stating it is this


moreover, Scramjet engines would accelerate the STS. During return flight, shouldn't the thrust be on decelerating it?

Also, could someone weigh in on this
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6511&start=40#p1904683

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby kvraghavaiah » 24 Sep 2015 11:06

Does anyone here know if there are any IRNS satellite launches before the end of 2015?

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby SSSalvi » 24 Sep 2015 11:35

^^^

Feb'16 IRNSS 1E
March '16 1F

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby member_28108 » 24 Sep 2015 13:02

^^^The DMRJ project is a different one and is being developed.


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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby Varoon Shekhar » 24 Sep 2015 19:13

http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/o ... 685529.ece
[size=85]
Another article, this one by Pallava Bagla. Refers to Mangalyaan lasting possibly a decade! What the...? They were originally projecting a 6 month life for MOM. It's really nice to be 'wrong' in the right direction!
[/size]

A red-letter day for India’s space history as the country’s first foray to the Red Planet through the Mangalyaan satellite successfully completes one year of its life around Mars on September 24, 2015, where it is ‘fully fit and healthy’. Made to last just six months, surprisingly it still has enough punch left to last for more than a decade in the Martian orbit.

The Mangalyaan has been a 100-per-cent success after it was injected into the Martian orbit, where it has already completed some 120 orbits. Meanwhile on Earth, the country struggles with an ailing health sector that fails to vaccinate infants, leaving every third child un-protected, and an outbreak of dengue in Delhi creates a frenzy that leaves hospitals brimming with patients. The contrast is appalling.

In this hard-fought Asian race to Mars between regional rivals China and India, New Delhi undoubtedly beat Beijing! There is no doubt that the Mars mission has enhanced the national image: U.S. President Barack Obama acknowledged that “India and America are both countries that have reached Mars”; even China sheepishly termed the success of Mangalyaan as “Asia’s pride”.

The Mangalyaan mission also made the world leader in space, U.S., take note of the Indian Space Research Organisation’s capabilities. The United States, a country that tried hard to scuttle the ISRO in its early stages, now seeks to make it a partner. On September 28, 2015 the world will come full circle when, for the first time, India launches four tiny satellites called LEMUR on a commercial basis for an American company for which, till recently, ISRO was no-go. Mangalyaan helped break the shackle
Last edited by Varoon Shekhar on 24 Sep 2015 19:18, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby Varoon Shekhar » 24 Sep 2015 19:17

Question: There are five instruments on board Mangalyaan. We are getting quite a few images from the Mars Colour Camera. What about the other 4 payloads, have any of them made any significant observations if not discoveries?

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby member_22539 » 24 Sep 2015 20:06

Varoon Shekhar wrote:The Mangalyaan has been a 100-per-cent success after it was injected into the Martian orbit, where it has already completed some 120 orbits. Meanwhile on Earth, the country struggles with an ailing health sector that fails to vaccinate infants, leaving every third child un-protected, and an outbreak of dengue in Delhi creates a frenzy that leaves hospitals brimming with patients. The contrast is appalling.


Why do one feel the need to do gutter inspection in an instance where mere acknowledgement of a success would do? What is this overpowering compulsion that some Indians feel that make them weigh down every success with the simultaneous vomiting of some failure?

Do our fellow developing nations not have their warts and failures, does china or the chinese feel the need for such "balancing" utterances? Do the so called advanced nations not have their problems? Is breast beating is hardly displayed by them during celebrations of successes?

Isn't such negativity one of the factors that holds back the Indian psyche, constantly pulling it back to the gutter, where it wrongly perceives itself as originating from?

Is such self-flagellation justified?

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby SriniY » 24 Sep 2015 20:17



Very nice.

Are there any new features that ISRO has uncovered which can be given Indic names.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby arshyam » 24 Sep 2015 20:51

Arun Menon wrote:Why do one feel the need to do gutter inspection in an instance where mere acknowledgement of a success would do? What is this overpowering compulsion that some Indians feel that make them weigh down every success with the simultaneous vomiting of some failure?

Saar, he is another 'dispassionate' and 'neutral' Indian 'journalist', which means he needs to sound like a BBC reporter, always looking at India from outside, as a specimen on a petri-dish. He is writing for an imaginary 'bhestern' audience whose approval he seems to seek, hence the so-called 'fairness'. Of course, no one really has the time, except us suckers who read The Hindu or any Indian newspaper, none of which want to hire people who will write for a real and existing Indian audience.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby symontk » 24 Sep 2015 21:02

[quote="Varoon Shekhar"]http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/on-mangalyaans-first-anniversary-understanding-the-gains-from-indias-foray-to-mars-and-the-moon/article7685529.ece
[size=85]
Another article, this one by Pallava Bagla. Refers to Mangalyaan lasting possibly a decade! What the...? They were originally projecting a 6 month life for MOM. It's really nice to be 'wrong' in the right direction!
[/size]

Its called risk planning, very few people do it, Kudos to ISRO on that. Technically braking to slow down the vehicle while approaching Mars would take most of the fuel, we saved a lot there

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby Prem Kumar » 24 Sep 2015 23:03

Varoon Shekhar wrote:We are getting quite a few images from the Mars Colour Camera. What about the other 4 payloads, have any of them made any significant observations if not discoveries?


One significant news yet to be released (I thought the due date was today) is whether MOM found evidence of Methane in Mars atmosphere. Everyone, including NASA, is waiting for that information to come

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby Varoon Shekhar » 25 Sep 2015 06:54

SSSalvi wrote:^^^

Feb'16 IRNSS 1E
March '16 1F


Will there be one more commercial launch by the end of the year? I vaguely recall a report of one.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby SSSalvi » 25 Sep 2015 09:05

^^^
The site that I follow to keep track of Indian launches is a foreign one ;) . :
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index. ... =1173.1140

Quoting from that:

Emergent schedule from India is

2015 performed Launches
March 28 1149UTC - PSLV(XL) C27 - IRNSS-1D
July 10 16:28 UTC - PSLV(XL) C28 FLP - 3 DMC3 + DeorbitSail-1 + CBNT-1
August 27 11:22 UTC - GSLV-D6 Mk II - GSAT-6 (military use)

Tentative launch schedule

2015
September 28 or 30 October - PSLV (XL) C30 SLP- AstroSat-1 + LAPAN-A2 (Indonesia) +NLS-14/Ev9 (Canada) + 4 x Lemur (UK)
October end NET November - RLV-TD HEX-01 (suborbital)
December PSLV(CA) C29 - TeLEOS-1 + KR 1 + VELOX C1 + 3 piggybacks (Singapore)

Nov - Ariane 5 - GSAT-15

2016
Feb- PSLV(XL) C31 - IRNSS-1E
March - PSLV(XL) C32 - IRNSS-1F
July - GSLV MkII D8 F09 F05- GSAT-9 (or GSAT-7A or INSAT-3DR
September - PSLV C33 - Cartosat-2C + SRE-2
NET Q4 - PSLV GSLV MkII- SAARC sat
December - PSLV C35 - Resourcesat-2A

piggybacked on PSLV : M3MSat (Canada), Nemo-AM, 9 nano/micro US sats (Q1)

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby member_28108 » 25 Sep 2015 19:47

PSLV-C30/ASTROSAT UPDATE
countdown to start at 08:00hr IST on Saturday, Sep 26, 2015 and the launch on MONDAY, Sep 28,2015 at 10:00 hr IST

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby Gagan » 25 Sep 2015 21:24

26 hr countdown onlee?
I thought in the past, this used to be twice as long

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby Shankas » 26 Sep 2015 05:04

One significant news yet to be released (I thought the due date was today) is whether MOM found evidence of Methane in Mars atmosphere. Everyone, including NASA, is waiting for that information to come


Perhaps we will know on Monday

NASA Will Announce A Major Mars Discovery On Monday

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby symontk » 26 Sep 2015 09:16

Gagan wrote:26 hr countdown onlee?
I thought in the past, this used to be twice as long


You missed a day, its 50 hours

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby Varoon Shekhar » 26 Sep 2015 14:10

So far, nothing that indicates that the launch is going to be televised. Not all launches are, I suppose.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby SSSalvi » 26 Sep 2015 15:53

symontk wrote:
Gagan wrote:26 hr countdown onlee?
I thought in the past, this used to be twice as long


You missed a day, its 50 hours


Not Gagan...

It is ISRO .. 1`st said 26 hrs and today says 50 hrs :).

Anyway ... the countdown can't be cut down .. same operations .. same time

^^^

ISRO has invited press to register to attend the launch.

Hopefully,Live Video Transmission will be there.
Last edited by SSSalvi on 26 Sep 2015 21:48, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby Gagan » 26 Sep 2015 16:54

Since massa satellites are being launched, one can expect gushing coverage by some of the pvt TV channels :lol:

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby member_28108 » 26 Sep 2015 17:41

PSLV-C30 / ASTROSAT MISSION UPDATE: MMH propellant filling operation has been completed by 12:00 hr IST. Preparations for Mixed Oxides of Nitrogen (MON-3) oxidiser filling operation of PS4 are under progress

PSLV-C30 / ASTROSAT MISSION UPDATE: MON-3, oxidiser filling operation of Fourth Stage (PS4) has been completed by 16:15 hr IST

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby Rahul M » 26 Sep 2015 18:39

I remember first seeing astrosat info-poster in a astro prof's office way back in 2006 IIRC. this is one really delayed project.


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