Indian Naval News & Discussion - 12 Oct 2013

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Rahul M
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Rahul M » 03 Mar 2014 14:12

who is 'lolife' ?

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby vina » 03 Mar 2014 15:09

Rahul M wrote:who is 'lolife' ?

One who is NOT HiLife ?

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Rahul M » 03 Mar 2014 16:16

ah. thx.

btw, IN subs are commanded by Commanders (and not captains) ? could anyone enlighten me why ?
TIA.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby chackojoseph » 03 Mar 2014 17:19

Fire in cables led to accident in submarine INS Sindhuratna, Navy says

Cable fault in INS Sindhuratna caused fire and she was tied next to Sindhurakshak when she exploded, resulting in minor fire. It was not batteries.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby kvraghav » 03 Mar 2014 17:24

Isint Amaron owned by one of the congress Andhra ministers who recently joined TDP ?

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Philip » 03 Mar 2014 18:03

Is that the MOD spin to protect the fallen angel,"Nero" over his battery replacement dereliction of duty? It would also absolve the local manufacturer of sub batteries which an above post say failed to meet requirements.

We now also have the news that the MOD is tilting towards HAL over the BT issue,now that ACM Browne has departed.He was dead against HAL's "paper plane" ,yet to fly ,to kill more Indian trainee pilots-given HAL's grand track record with the HT-32.Unfortunately the HAL/Hawk engine scam has hit the headlines simultaneously.Hopefully this will scuttle HAL's "paper plane" and expose the rotten apples within that establishment.

With daily exposes and revelations about the batteries and the condition of the sub,"a ticking bomb",reported to have been said by one of the deceased officers to another senior officer at the Navy Mess just a few days before the tragedy,it is going to be very difficult for the MOD to cover up its dereliction of duty. in the sub tragedies and the utter chaos and crisis within the Indian armed forces.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby chackojoseph » 03 Mar 2014 20:36

The board of inquiry is headed by Rear Admiral S.V. Bhokare, Flag Officer Submarines. He is based in Vizag, which is working and operating nuclear submarines. He was in WNC for some reason during the accident and was asked to stay on for BOI.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Philip » 04 Mar 2014 19:20

I don't know if this was picked up earlier,an AWST report on BMos. Feb. 17th issue.Second production plant nearing completion.$6B orders,"thousands" to be made,both JV partners have come to an agreement on exporting the same to "friendly countries".BMos-M,the smaller lighter version will be 6m long and 20in in dia.,therefore will fit in std. TTs on our subs.Rubin is developing a new Amur variant for the same on offer to the IN for the 75I project. Bmos-M will be carried by the IN's MIGs ,carrier landings capable,as well as other aircraft like Rafales,etc., and The Mach 7 hypersonic BMos-2 reusable missile,which will deliver its payload,assess damage and return, is also being developed.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Kapil » 06 Mar 2014 04:06

Rahul,

Submarines=the Sindhus and the U-Boats, on account of their crewing numbers and tonnage fall into Cdr level CO appointments.
Typically, a submarine CO will command as a commander, then may go onto command a larger surface ship as a Captain or may get to command a Submarine sqn as a Captain.
Typical surface fleet commands for submariners are the Talwars/Tegs/Godavaris/Brahmaputras and in some cases also the Delhis.
Admiral Ravi Ganesh remains the only officer in history to have commanded a nuclear powered submarine, the old Chakra as well as an aircraft carrier.

CO Chakra and CO Arihant are Captain level appointments.

Regardless of rank, all commanding officers are addressed as 'Captain' when on board their ships.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Singha » 06 Mar 2014 07:10

a ex-serviceman has filed a lawsuit in TN againt actor Vijaykanth how he can use the name Captain without ever being in services!

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby NRao » 06 Mar 2014 08:53

Private boats have Captains too.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby ArmenT » 06 Mar 2014 11:02

Singha wrote:a ex-serviceman has filed a lawsuit in TN againt actor Vijaykanth how he can use the name Captain without ever being in services!

Is he going to sue MS Dhoni next? :D

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby SSridhar » 06 Mar 2014 11:07

Singha wrote:a ex-serviceman has filed a lawsuit in TN againt actor Vijaykanth how he can use the name Captain without ever being in services!

That Captain tag stuck to the actor after he portrayed as Veluppillai Prabhakaran in one of his movies.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby chetak » 06 Mar 2014 11:23

Rahul M wrote:who is 'lolife' ?


The entire politico babu gang

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Yogi_G » 06 Mar 2014 11:29

SSridhar wrote:
Singha wrote:a ex-serviceman has filed a lawsuit in TN againt actor Vijaykanth how he can use the name Captain without ever being in services!

That Captain tag stuck to the actor after he portrayed as Veluppillai Prabhakaran in one of his movies.


OT and nitpick, but Vijayakanth doesnt play the role of Velupillai Prabhakaran, he plays the role of a forest officer going after a brigand played by Mansoor Ali Khan. The movie name was however a tribute to Velupillai Prabhakaran.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby maitya » 06 Mar 2014 11:40

Philip wrote:RAdm. Menon is echoing what we've been saying on BR for aeons,that we should concentrate upon building more N-subs,while augmenting our weakened numbers with extra subs from Russia.That is if our myopic mannquins in the NEA/MOD can think beyond the beaches and islands of India.

http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/lead/si ... 743661.ece
Sindhuratna and beyond

Raja Menon

Submarining has always been a dangerous profession, meant only for volunteers drawn from serving navy personnel. It is also a relatively young man’s profession, with commanding officers of conventional submarines going “over the top” in their late thirties, into staff jobs. The selection is strict and the training rigorous. New entrants are carefully screened in psychological tests to survive in close proximity, under difficult conditions, with other human beings, for long periods of time. Not surprisingly, the camaraderie is close and submariners make friends for life.
...
...
In the decades to come, the Navy will become the prime service as India dumps its anxieties over territorial integrity and pursues its global self-interest. The Navy must also shift its strategic thinking from antiquated ideas of coastal defence and a Karachi blockade to an oceanic maritime strategy that is in line with India’s status in the region and its interests overseas. A good beginning was the seminar on nuclear submarines conducted in Visakhapatnam by the Commander-in-Chief to help the submarine community come to grips with future submarine policy. The Navy must now speak with one voice in favour of nuclear submarines.

(Raja Menon retired as Rear Admiral in the Indian Navy.)


"A far more elegant solution is the nuclear propelled SSN, which is normally twice as expensive as a conventional submarine but is far more effective than two conventional boats."
The point I continue to make about the cost of a (non-AIP) Scorpene,(whose price escalates at the cost of 1 crore per day!)-almost equal to that of an Akula-2!


Well, talking about costs, can you pls do the math and let us know how much per-day cost escalation was there for,

1. Vikramaditya/Groshkov refit/money-spinning, considering that it was $974mil 2004 refit-and-free-ship deal which turned out be a pay-out of $2.35b in 2013?

2. What exactly is the cost of additional $3.1B ($1.5b + $1.6b) for 45 (16+29) Mig-29Ks blackmailing? I mean, what would a comparable aircraft cost had the parent deal predicated the buy to a specific aircraft? In which way is this not a single-vendor deal? And how is this predicating-price different from "anti-corruption"-service-charge that we pay to the US govt in the FMS deals?

3. What is the opportunity cost of the time lost in the additional time the Russikies took to complete this work (over and beyond the contracted time they had agreed to)? Between, if real opprtunity cost related comparison is required, do try to contrast that with, say, the C-17s (and the) delivery meeting the exact schedule, agreed for in the corresponding contract?

After all we can't cherry-pick in such vital matters of national defence, don't you think? :roll:


Betw, no quarrels with Adm Raja Menon is saying i.e need for more SSNs and since nobody would be willing to lease or sell those except the Russians, by all means let's go for it. Though $1bil/10year per boat (so $100mil/year) is tad-too high - need to compare against the AIP-equipped boat costs of the Scorpene class over a 30year life, though!!

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Gagan » 06 Mar 2014 18:09

Feel bad posting this.
Google's updated images now show the Sindhuratna's sail as it sits underwater in Mumbai
Image

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Singha » 06 Mar 2014 18:26

is is months now and no word on even awarding the contract for someone to build a caisson and raise the boat for investigation.

perhaps like pearl harbour, it will left in sunken state as a memorial .... unpleasant secrets are always kept submerged in indian env.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby tushar_m » 06 Mar 2014 19:13

System to keep eye on activities in Indian Ocean region
http://newz.defenceradar.com/system-eye ... an-region/

Seeking to enhance its influence in the Indian Ocean Region,India today said it has put in place a system along with Sri Lanka and Maldives to keep an eye on the activities there and work together for enhancing maritime security.

“We have a platform in place which will enhance concrete response to situation whether it is piracy, counter terrorism, drug trafficking or human trafficking… We will pool our capability. This is useful and wanted to join forward,” National Security Advisor Shiv Shankar Menon told reporters.

“We can put in place systems so that we can see and share what we see what is going on in the maritime area around us. We have trained our people. We have put in hardware so that we can share that information,” he said.
He was briefing on the third NSA-level Meeting on Maritime Security Cooperation between Maldives, Sri Lanka and India held here.
The NSA said while assessing the cooperation and joint activities in field of counter-terrorism, anti-piracy and trafficking, the three sides were satisfied with the work in progress.

Menon said the three sides have also held a trilateral exercise called ‘Dosti’ also in the recent past.
At the meeting, the Maldivian delegation was led by its Defence Minister Col (Retd) Mohamed Nazim while the Sri Lankan side was represented by its Defence Secretary Gotabaya Rajapaksa.

On the part of the new platform, the three countries will share data of the newly-developed Automatic Identification System, which has been built by India for enhancing coastal security.

Menon said the three countries had invited Mauritius and the Seychelles as observer countries for this meeting and they have shown interest in participate in it and “we may have to change the name of the meeting”.

Source: indiatimes

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Lalmohan » 06 Mar 2014 19:17

Singha wrote:is is months now and no word on even awarding the contract for someone to build a caisson and raise the boat for investigation.

perhaps like pearl harbour, it will left in sunken state as a memorial .... unpleasant secrets are always kept submerged in indian env.


the USS Arizona still leaks oil to this day... as a reminder

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby ShauryaT » 07 Mar 2014 07:08

Indian Navy Cast Adrift

Admiral D K Joshi’s resigning and the succession crisis it triggered are ultimately minor issues. More basic problems afflict the navy.

For instance, the Indian Navy’s high reputation for seamanship and ship-handling has been sullied somewhat by the spate of accidents involving frigates and destroyers ramming into docks and passing vessels. In a recent conversation with this analyst, Joshi dismissed these mishaps as “tire punctures”. At a minimum, it indicates a decline in ship-handling skills.

I recall, in this respect, the late Admiral S M Nanda, the country’s eighth Naval Chief, telling me of an incident from the 1950s when the navy annually exercised with the Royal Navy’s Mediterranean Fleet. In one such exercise, as commander of the cruiser, Mysore, he was asked by the host, who was testing his mettle, to squeeze his large ship into a tight berth alongside British warships in the harbour in Malta. It required intricate docking manoeuvres the British fleet commander was certain Nanda could not pull off and, in trying to bring his ship in unaided crash it into the jetty. But Nanda deftly slid Mysore into the slot without a hitch. The surprised Briton didn’t know, the Admiral told me with a chuckle, that he had captained pilot boats in Karachi harbour in the pre-Second World War days.

The point is that ship-handling skills are learned and the “sea eye” acquired hands-on by subaltern officers (in the rank of sub-Lieutenant and Lieutenant) steering small craft on coastal security duties and skimming in and about crowded harbours, something naval stalwarts will vouch for. It is a hard job, they say, to bring in a 6,000 ton-plus missile destroyer coasting in at 4-6 knots to the quay, and ship commanders lacking sufficient small boat-derived experience often flub this test. Lack of such skills is also reflected in ships running aground, which too has happened lately. Diffident captains opting to have tug-boats escort their vessels in and out of harbours will lack the experience in crisis when ships have to get out to sea in a hurry under their own power.

The trouble is small ship command billets are in short supply because the navy has no more than 20 offshore patrol craft and coastal combatants in its inventory, smaller vessels being monopolised by the Coast Guard (CG) tasked with the coastal security mission. In this respect, the navy has failed to respond to a 10-year-old offer by the CG director-general to sequester six of his vessels exclusively for junior naval officers to command. The skills differential is thus set to widen considering the CG is growing faster with induction of new patrol boats every two-three weeks and, in time, its officers could potentially be better in handling bigger ships than their naval counterparts.

Familiarisation with ships comes, moreover, from pulling time in them. More and more naval officers, however, have ever shorter tenures in rotational posts at sea, affording them insufficient time to familiarise themselves with the ships. It has resulted in an echelon of mid-level officers not quite capable, when commanding ships, of manoeuvring them well or tackling on-board crises and contingencies involving machinery and equipment.

Huge bunches of the navy’s 10,000-strong officer cadre, the smallest of any armed service, moreover, are sucked up for duty in large ships. The first fleet aircraft carrier, Vikramaditya, has 200 officers assigned to it. Because the ministry of defence (MoD) sanctions crew strength virtually at the point of commissioning ships, increases in personnel cannot be schemed too much in advance, making nonsense of manpower planning and compounding the problem of inexperienced officers assuming command of battleships.

The depletion of the submarine arm is especially alarming. In the wake of the Sindhuratna accident, the turgid pace of decision-making in the ministry of defence (MoD) will quicken for a while and bureaucrats, who often wilfully retard military procurement and indigenous production programmes, will frantically clear everything to avoid blame. It is an opportune time for the naval brass to take the seriously big step of embarking on an all-nuclear submarine arm as advocated by the veteran submariner, retired Rear Admiral Raja Menon, and secure two additional Russian Akula nuclear hunter-killer submersibles (SSNs) on lease, including the Iribis already offered to India, to fill the immediate void in sea denial capability. The lesser option is to build a conventional hunter-killer submarine (SSK) from scratch.

To achieve this grand aim, Project 75i, a programme to buy yet another foreign conventional sub at a mind-boggling `55,000 crore, should be altered to obtain an SSK, or SSN, with a production line to complement the one manufacturing the Arihant-class nuclear-powered nuclear missile firing submarines (SSBNs). In either case, it will be a daunting project considering the navy’s design directorate still lacks basic competence. It hasn’t developed the tools and the metrics to validate its own designs. But rather than be deterred by the enormity of this enterprise, the government should sanction this SSK/SSN project in mission-mode, affording it priority and autonomy as was done in the case of the Agni missile and Arihant projects. After all, the country had no experience in producing missiles and SSBNs either.

The navy’s submarine design group has enough insights from the German HDW and French Scorpene projects and long acquaintance with the Russian design philosophy to shake off self-doubt. It is imperative the navy goes all out on this option, seeding a comprehensive submarine and ship-building industry in the process. To ensure its success, it should insist on a private sector combine of majors, such as Larsen & Toubro and Pipavav Shipyard involved in making the Arihant, as prime contractor. This being no time for ethical niceties, the combine should be incentivised to reverse-engineer to the maximum, to rely on indigenous sources and resources, and to obtain the really critical technology and technical assistance from wherever and however it can get it. Commercial-minded corporates, espying nationalism-laced profit, will find a way.

Committed to shrinking the government and the public sector, the likely new prime minister Narendra Modi will welcome such an ambitious and freewheeling initiative to render the country genuinely self-reliant in armaments.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Philip » 07 Mar 2014 09:26

While the quest for a "nuclear navy" has to be pursued apace,acquiring more Akulas as well as accelerating the manufacture of indigenous N-boats,the "assymetry"- as another media report describes vis-a-vis China,is only widening.The number of suns in the IN's inventory do matter very much.A decade ago we had 18 subs operational.10 Kilos,4-U-209s and 4 still serving aged Foxtrots.Adm. Bhagwat proposed a sub fleet of at least 24 when he was chief,with two lines of subs built at home,one western and one Russian.This was aaper from wahtever progress was made on the indigenous ATV N-boat programme.After spending massive amounts of money and time,with navy funding as well, with no results,Adm.Bhgwat demanded an auid.That was the excuse with which he was unceremoniously sacked by Uncle George-the most prominent black mark against his otherwise good handling of his responsibility as DM.Bhagwat stood firm on promotions,and refused to bow to political pressure and was sacked

Nevertheless,his visionary sub building/acquisition programme was abandoned by the MOD,especially after the St.Anthony took over.he wanted the Navy to have "faith",and that miracles would enable the IN's aging subs to sail on with inadequate maintenance.Like a Pentecostal believer,who do not go to hospitals,the IN's subs were expected to heal themselves.year after year the IN pleaded with the MOD,DM,PM and all the cats,dogs,rats,insects in South Block to no avail.The Saint could not be disturbed from his prayers.Remember how he folded his hands in prayer when told by Gen.VKS about the Tatra scam,"praying" for it to go away by itself for a whole year!

So today the IN possesses 8 Kilos,half of which are held together by scavenging from her and there,4 U-boats which are undergoing yet another refit to keep them afloat,1 Akula-2 SSGN recently acquired ,which will take some time for our submariners to be able to fully exploit,and 1 ATV,which has yet to begin its sea trials,which will take around a year,and is meant to hide somewhere in the IOR,to be used only for our strategic defence,not regular naval ops,which have almost doubled during the last decade with anti-piracy off the African coast,our look east policy where the IN is n=venturing into the Indo-China Sea,etc. In real terms,it has lost almost 1/3rd of its earlier capability,at a time when Pak is expanding its sub fleet to around 10-12 subs and the PLAN racing towards 60-80 new subs by 2020!

The Scorpene programme has been a disaster thus far.When these subs arrive,a decade late,they will as one IN submariner put it some time ago,be almost "obsolete".They also lack the IN's supersonic (terminal warhead) Klub missile with its 300km range,the Exocet has only about half that at its max range.These Scorpenes too are non-AIP when Pak already possesses earlier model French Agosta 90-B AIP subs!
WE thus have to rapidly augment both the conventional sub inventory mainly for IOR littoral duties,as well as extra N-subs for multi-ocean ops.Conventional AIP subs in exercises in the US have been found superior to the US's SSN attack subs in littoral warfare/shallow waters. The Kilo class therefore is the first that has to be swiftly replaced.The easiest and most cost-effective is with the Amur class,supposed to be even cheaper than the Kilo,where a variant to accommodate the BMos-M smaller version of BMos,which can be fired from the tubes,is being developed and on offer to the IN.We will be able to operate and evaluate the Scorpenes only around 2020.Our sub-design and building capability of conventional AIP boats has yet to be perfected and is far from satisfactory.Just examine MDLs track record.Just assembling 2 U-209s took aeons.The Scorpenes are taking even longer ! None of our pvt. yards have built even one foreign designed sub.L&T have the best capability,but are needed for the N-sub manufacture.

Even if we obtain the 6 Scorpenes,6-8 Amurs to replace Kikos,and stretch the lifespan of the German U-boats,we would still possess only around 16-18 conventional subs ,the number we had decades ago!

Under the great stewardship of the UPA,

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Will » 07 Mar 2014 13:13

If the NDA comes to power maybe Jaswant Singh would make a good DM.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Pratyush » 07 Mar 2014 14:09

jaswant singh while a good man is not a hard core politician. we need a hard core politition of good standing to sort both home and defense ministries.

IMO, foriegn ministry will be a good spot for him. He is both gentle and articulate enough to diliver in the brief given to him.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Chandragupta » 07 Mar 2014 15:12

Explosion in INS Kolkata being reported right now.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby member_20317 » 07 Mar 2014 15:22

Indian Navy is sloppy excuse will be trotted out.

You ask me somebody is targeting IN for what it has done lately and what it is not doing lately. Got to fish out the later.

One commander level person dead. Its INS Kolkata-under construction.

Who would be responsible for what aspect of its safety - Western Command or MoD? - But I guess that would only be the wrong question.

How can the same establishment that does not get accident-ed for long long times suddenly get into so much trouble for so long.
Last edited by member_20317 on 07 Mar 2014 15:32, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby chetak » 07 Mar 2014 15:28

Will wrote:If the NDA comes to power maybe Jaswant Singh would make a good DM.


This guys plummy upper class british accent is a constant source of great irritation for the pakis. For this one very great attribute, if nothing else, we should have him in the Foreign ministry onlee. :wink:

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Peregrine » 07 Mar 2014 15:32

Another naval accident, one officer killed on board INS Kolkata

The accident comes days after Admiral DK Joshi resigned as Navy chief, owning moral responsibility for a series of accidents including two aboard submarines.
NEW DELHI: A naval officer has been killed in an accident on board in yet to be operational warship, in a sensation new twist to Navy's ongoing tryst with accidents.

Sources said a commander rank officer of the Kolkata class destroyer was killed around 1pm on Friday in the accident.

Sources said he was killed because of possible malfunctioning of the firefighting system in the engine room of the destroyer.

The valve on top of the carbon-dioxide cylinder burst, hitting the officer on his chest, and he collapsed. The leaking CO2 would have further added to the confusion, it is believed.

INS Kolkata (officially now called Yard 701) is the most modern destroyer of India, set for commissioning in a few weeks time. It is now at the Bombay Port Trust undergoing trials.

The accident comes days after Admiral DK Joshi resigned as Navy chief, owning moral responsibility for a series of accidents including two aboard submarines. The latest accident would raise serious questions over the quality of MDL worksmanship and supplies.

INS Kolkata is the lead ship in the guided class destroyers India is building now. The other two would be INS Kochi and INS Chennai.

May his Soul Rest in Eternal Peace.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Pratyush » 07 Mar 2014 15:35

The accident seems to be a case of unbilivible bad luck.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby anchal » 07 Mar 2014 15:47

Can it be that IN has been penetrated heavily by hostile agencies? Too many coincidences

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby JE Menon » 07 Mar 2014 15:55

Certainly the series of accidents suggests more than just run of the mill incompetence.

It could also be a distraction exercise while the focus is on penetration elsewhere.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby nishu » 07 Mar 2014 16:03

Recent incidents have happened mostly in mumbai naval dockyard . We could guess whether it has been infiltrated .

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Philip » 07 Mar 2014 16:25

"Something is rotten in the state of Bombay/Mumbai...." naval dockyard/MDL!

If we analyse the many accidents that have befallen the IN in the last year or so,some are trivial,dredging not done resulting in ships running aground,etc.Others have been of a more serious affair,collisions at sea-pointing to poor seamanship by either the IN's sailors or the merchantmen/fishing bumboats involved.Those involving the SRakshak/SRatna are of a catastrophic nature.The complete loss of a sub and accidents involving fatalities.Ancient warships and subs,like our Kilos and the Trenton/Jalashwa ,being old vessels,appear to be the fault of faulty/expired eqpt.This narrows down the cause of the more serious accidents to either human error or poor quality of refits/maintenance.

Now in the latest incident,the destroyer hasn't even been handed over to the IN! It is still under trials,]machinery trials reported, at MDL and therefore clearly its direct responsibility.This accident is not primarily the fault of the IN. Whether this was due to faulty eqpt. and the MOD is ridden with scam after scam regarding procurement,quality issues,etc.,poor installation,or the Dear Lord forbid,sabotage,which in the current circumstances though remote has to be looked at in view that all these major accidents involving loss of life were at Bombay,that too involving subs and vessels that had just undergone refits/maintenance/upgrades at the very same dockyard!
If MDL is the culprit,then heads should roll in that DPSU.There were hints that the SRakshak was an act of sabotage on the eve of Republic Day.

But what about the politicos at the helm and the babus of the MOD? They call the shots.They treat the chiefs like beggars with their casual insensitive remarks forcing them to grovel.Now one grudging admission came from the FM,PC,when he said that perhaps the aspect of maintenance of old weapon systems had been given its due importance.That is an astonishing admission,as the IN and various Navy chiefs have been pleading with the MOD/DM for years! Other nations have "Defence Ministers",India has it unique "Deaf Minister".


St.Anthony,can you at least lip read? If so then "by the grace of God GO!"

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby chackojoseph » 07 Mar 2014 16:43


chackojoseph
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby chackojoseph » 07 Mar 2014 16:51


uddu
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby uddu » 07 Mar 2014 17:00

The Kolkata incident proves corruption even in procuring fire fighting equipments. Substandard equipments that go off killing soldiers explains a lot about the procurement process and the equipment supplied. Corruption within the MOD is the main reason for all kinds of accidents happening today. It starts at MOD and it ends with death of our soldiers.

Ajit.C
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Ajit.C » 07 Mar 2014 17:03

Gagan wrote:Feel bad posting this.
Google's updated images now show the Sindhuratna's sail as it sits underwater in Mumbai
Image


Thought is was Sindhurakshak that has sits at the bottom of Mumbai Harbour.

Austin
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Austin » 07 Mar 2014 17:16

Yet another Navy mishap, a commander dies
An Indian Navy officer has been killed in a gas leak on a ship under construction at the Mazagaon dock in Mumbai.

The officer, Commander Kuntal Wadhwa, died today after a malfunction in the ship's carbon dioxide unit caused gas to leak during machinery trials. The yet to be commissioned ship is one of three Kolkata class destroyers being built under the Navy's Project 15 A.

A Navy press release said the officer and some other personnel were affected and had been hospitalised. It was later confirmed that the officer had died.

The warship is one of the most advanced vessels made in India and is fitted with state of the art weaponry and sensors.

Only last week, two officers were killed in a fire aboard a Navy submarine INS Sindhuratna, which had been refitted and was being sea-tested.

Navy chief Admiral DK Joshi had resigned owning moral responsibility for that and several other accidents in the last few months, including the blast that sank another submarine INS Sindhurakshak in August last year, killing all 18 sailors and officers on board.

Philip
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Philip » 07 Mar 2014 17:34

Too true Uddu.Rampant corruption under "Corruption King",Mouse Moham Singh.With his sidekick "the Saint",made in similar mould,and a cast of thousands of corrupt and inefficient babus,the Indian armed farces ...sorry forces,have been reduced to a comedy show entertaining our mortal enemies around the globe.

The latest joke from the MOD! The officer "tripped" ,fell and inhaled CO2! But where did the lethal gas come from?! Earlier statements said that there was an explosion of the CO2 cylinder/device.Is the eqpt. aboard our desi DDGHs so delicate that if a sailor merely "trips",he falls upon something that kills him.?Wow! Just imagine the situ during stormy weather.Who need the enemy then? Latest news,that 5 officers and sailors were working on this piece of eqpt. and whether they were equipped with the required safety eqpt. there was no eqpt. to revive the Commander who died.More news..that the eqpt, had malfunctioned and that the Cdr. and other officers were there to attend to it. No "tripping" in this other report.

That too,the DDG is 3 years late,supposed to have been commissioned in 2010,plus will be commissioned without its principal air defence SAM,the Barak 8,also a few years late!


This says the dockyard/MOD,is only a "minor incident" which will not delay the commissioning of the warship! Well,I'm not sure how the officers and sailors in the IN will enjoy being described as such. I don't think that the Saint will be boarding a warship or sub for a very,very long time to come,and if he does in full bulletproof jacket,gas masks,helmet and accompanied by a battallion of black cats! Who knows,he might also trip ,lose his dhoti in the process,expose his shockings to all and sundry and inhale,or exhale embarrassingly as the case may be!

The same spin is now being put on the SRatna tragedy,that it was "human error".This "minor incident" will also be put down to "human error". The error? Joining the IN and serving at a time when we have the worst ever DM in charge and babus,totally insensitive to the loss of priceless lives of our uniformed men and women of the armed forces.So St.Anthony's dhoti will remain spotless and whiter than white.

PS:Latest spin.The officer tripped in the engine room inhaled CO2 and was taken to hospital "where he was found dead"!

Chidambaram fires a shot across the MOD's bows,by saying that "we have provided the max. money poss. and a little more", "sincerely sorry" about the negligence in the sub's maintenance and that it (MOD) should spend the money allotted to it,more wisely and more efficiently,looking into maintenance ,etc.

Fresh documents says Times Now says that the Kilo class had many more shortcomings of spares,etc.well known to the MOD.Documents classified say delays in getting batteries,sonars,navigation eqpt,fire control system,weapon control system,etc. SGosh,in bad shape,problems in pumps,etc. Now all these deficiencies are supposedly being rectified in our local dockyards which shows up the quality and the delays in the repairs and maintenance.If PC says that funds have been allotted to the I,where have they been allocated,as it appears that INS Indian Navy,is springing leaks in its hull by the day.The skipper has "walked the plank",the XOs are falling victim to mysterious accidents and the fleet's "Patron Saint",is more interested in retaining his halo of purity and the whiteness of his robes and plucking at the strings of his harp,while the fleet falls apart.
Last edited by Philip on 07 Mar 2014 18:11, edited 1 time in total.

Singha
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Singha » 07 Mar 2014 17:55

there was a some gas leak fatality even in the Jalashwa iirc. took out a few good men too.

in contrast the coast guard despite its very rapid growth in ships seems to be keeping a low profile and a clean slate.


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