Indian Naval News & Discussion - 12 Oct 2013

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rohitvats
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby rohitvats » 21 Apr 2014 00:19

Ajit.C wrote:He was No.2 in seniority after WNC.ENC was no.3 and SNC no.4. Cannot understand what the fuss is about.


I don't have views on his appointment either ways; the article by RSN Singh would make sense only if MOD went out of way to promote him as CNS, which as per your input it did not. It simply went by the seniority criteria.

But what I don't understand is how come he became Vice-Chief w/o ever commanding a Naval Command? Is that OK as per IN way of doing things? Because IA simply cannot have someone as COAS w/o commanding one of the regional Commands or the Training Command.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby chackojoseph » 21 Apr 2014 08:33

If one reads reports soon after the resignation of Adm DK Joshi, it was clear that VADM Sinha was not in line for the top job. As per the reports, Adm Joshi had asked VADM Sinha to take responsibilities of the recent accidents under his watch, and then resigned after VADm refused. Appointment of VADM Dhowan was the next in line.

Atheist AK Antony (may be correct usage - instead of Saint Antony- as I don't know if Atheists can be saints or a ‎Mata Amritanandamayi follower can be a saint), is correct in this appointment.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby chetak » 21 Apr 2014 09:29

chackojoseph wrote:If one reads reports soon after the resignation of Adm DK Joshi, it was clear that VADM Sinha was not in line for the top job. As per the reports, Adm Joshi had asked VADM Sinha to take responsibilities of the recent accidents under his watch, and then resigned after VADm refused. Appointment of VADM Dhowan was the next in line.

Atheist AK Antony (may be correct usage - instead of Saint Antony- as I don't know if Atheists can be saints or a ‎Mata Amritanandamayi follower can be a saint), is correct in this appointment.


you are back again, defending the indefensible.

Don't try to divert issues by dragging Mata Amritanandamayi into this mess.

You, of all people should know how "reports" appear in the press. I do not believe a word of such motivated "reports" or the pressitutes and news traders who pimp out such reports.

Why would Adm Sinha resign??

He is not one to leave with the job unfinished.

Why the blind adoration for the shroud of turin?? What does antony bring to the table or has ever brought to any high table?? RSS remote controls can easily be traced but other hidden remote controls are devious and insidious, and infinitely more harming. Army without guns, Navy without subs and Air force without fighters and trainers, whose defence minister is this guy anyway?? He has brought such joy and comfort to our enemies. Talk about remote controls. Not opening this can of worms.

He is certainly hoping to replace the other supplicant mms, merely by sheer show of piety as this hollow husk of an emasculated politician has no other claim to fame, forsaking all national interest. As always, long on rhetoric and short on delivery. mms also chose this very tried and tested path to the utter ruination of this country

India simply cannot afford antony, in any form, saint or atheist, he is an unmitigated disaster. A lowly. petty regional hanger on, catapulted on to the national stage by the shroud, he has shown his utter incompetence and unsuitability for public office. He is only distinguished by his venal self interest and immoral disregard for those under his care, carefully packaging this pathetic performance as "honesty" and using other hanger on's to purvey his vile lies. His wanton meddling in the appointment of the next COAS and in the appointment of the present CNS is contemptible as it is motivated.

ps Your tribal slip is showing.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby chackojoseph » 21 Apr 2014 09:46

PS: you refuse to see the truth. Those are facts. Its in your face. He is an atheist and follower of Mata Amrita Devi and I doubt "saint" is right terminology.

The reports on VADM is also valid.

The point I am making is that don't flow with whats been dished out. There is nothing wrong with the above and the appointment.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby chetak » 21 Apr 2014 10:00

chackojoseph wrote:PS: you refuse to see the truth. Those are facts. Its in your face. He is an atheist and follower of Mata Amrita Devi and I doubt "saint" is right terminology.

The reports on VADM is also valid.

The point I am making is that don't flow with whats been dished out. There is nothing wrong with the above and the appointment.


That's a load of BS

I have personally known the VADM for over 35 years and the "reports" are biased and motivated. He is neither pliable nor remote controllable. He has a brain which any sinner (or saint) would fear.

He is not one to cut and run from ANY situation.

He has honorably resigned now, ( within barely a few hours of the new CNS's appointment ) belying all shady "reports"

The correct terminology would be sinner but saint works well as a sarcastic substitute and that's why it is so widely used. His (and your) desperate attempts to pull wool over the public's eyes have failed.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby chackojoseph » 21 Apr 2014 10:44

Its ok if you have known him and I have professionally interacted with him. You are misleading here, because you are trying to imply that I am trying to tarnish his impeccable record. I repeat "the accidents under his watch" is what I cited.

One can use Saint in sarcasm when its apt. Here, being spotless on account of his conduct is different from the definition of Saint as we know in multiple religions including Christianity, Islam, Sanatana Dharma ....

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby chackojoseph » 21 Apr 2014 10:56

and By the way, VADM Sinha's 'Honorable resignation' (as you put it) is also a myth. As one can read this situation of appointment of a junior as his superior, his position was made untenable so that he will have to resign.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby chetak » 21 Apr 2014 11:00

chackojoseph wrote:Its ok if you have known him and I have professionally interacted with him. You are misleading here, because you are trying to imply that I am trying to tarnish his impeccable record. I repeat "the accidents under his watch" is what I cited.

One can use Saint in sarcasm when its apt. Here, being spotless on account of his conduct is different from the definition of Saint as we know in multiple religions including Christianity, Islam, Sanatana Dharma ....


You ARE deliberately tarnishing his record.

the saint is not spotless. He is shamefully and deeply stained with the opprobrium of public spittle.

Accidents happened on the watch of the respective commanding officers, not the VADM's watch. If it happened on the VADM's watch so did it on the respective watches of the CNS, saint, Def Secretary, Prime minister, president and the whole cabinet.

How come no one else resigned?? How come it took the saint all of forty minutes to accept the resignation?? It takes a junior level Lt col a MIMIMUM of 90 days to resign. The saint obtained concurrence from the def Sec, prime minister, cabinet, and president in only 40 minutes?? Come on, cut the bullshit, even you don't believe it.

or are the pimping news traders and pressitutes, too concerned with crumbs from the table, afraid to ask??

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby chetak » 21 Apr 2014 11:05

chackojoseph wrote:and By the way, VADM Sinha's 'Honorable resignation' (as you put it) is also a myth. As one can read this situation of appointment of a junior as his superior, his position was made untenable so that he will have to resign.


My dear sir, there are many who do not resign, preferring the lure of the loaves and fishes of high office to "Honorable resignation"

Would ANYBODY have dared to ask the VADM, if he had not resigned??

The myth is in your own tribal mind.

How come no one else resigned?? How come it took the saint all of forty minutes to accept the resignation?? It takes a junior level Lt col a MIMIMUM of 90 days to resign. The saint obtained concurrence from the def Sec, prime minister, cabinet, and president in only 40 minutes?? Come on, cut the bullshit, even you don't believe it.

and took more than a month to appoint his successor??

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby chackojoseph » 21 Apr 2014 11:12

Since you are not putting forth any facts and your CEP is 180 degree from the point of impact on this case, what i am supposed to reply to?

Govt has taken the resignation from the post of CNS and treated it a voluntary retirement, so that he gets all his benefits.

The one month to decide for CNS came after sudden exit of the chief and then the EC permission which was sought. A navy should not be without chief for such a long time, but procedures were not circumvented here.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby chetak » 21 Apr 2014 11:22

chackojoseph wrote:Since you are not putting forth any facts and your CEP is 180 degree from the point of impact on this case, what i am supposed to reply to?

Govt has taken the resignation from the post of CNS and treated it a voluntary retirement, so that he gets all his benefits.

The one month to decide for CNS came after sudden exit of the chief and then the EC permission which was sought. A navy should not be without chief for such a long time, but procedures were not circumvented here.


What?

election commission took one month?? What was the super saint doing?? If he took forty minutes to accept the resignation, did he not get the EC's trivial opinion on such a vital national security matter??

A load of BS again

benefits are determined by the length of service and not on any saints sweet will and wish

benefits automatically accrue if the length of service exceeds twenty years.

Don't talk of my CEP, sirjee, talk about your own overarching tribal CEP.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby chackojoseph » 21 Apr 2014 11:27

Can you point out the actual procedure of taking resignation, then selection process and then the procedure for EC approval? I can comment only after that. lets see how much you know.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby chetak » 21 Apr 2014 11:38

The saint should have kept the resignation of the erstwhile CNS pending for the next government to handle and in the meanwhile requested Adm Joshi to continue pending decision. This is what an intelligent, patriotic DM would have done, especially during the run up to the elections.

But the saint was very keen to keep his mundu spotless, the country be damned, and he also saw a very good chance to shift all the blame on to the outgoing CNS, while keeping said mundu clean.

venal self interest triumphs over the country's interest.

and what the fc@k was the def sec doing??

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby chetak » 21 Apr 2014 11:45

chackojoseph wrote:Can you point out the actual procedure of taking resignation, then selection process and then the procedure for EC approval? I can comment only after that. lets see how much you know.


Nice try.

Go find out yourself.

I am not here to educate you, that would have been the primary responsibility of others when you were growing up. Mere semantics and rhetoric will not work in the real world.

you claim to be a "journalist", go do some "research" instead of mere tribal journalism.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby chackojoseph » 21 Apr 2014 11:51

Ok Sir!

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby chetak » 21 Apr 2014 11:55

chackojoseph wrote:Ok Sir!


chackojoseph ji,

Nothing personal.

sometimes discussions get emotionally charged. Not to take any of it to heart.

In the end and every time, the country must always come first.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby chackojoseph » 21 Apr 2014 11:58

Ok Sir!

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby member_20292 » 21 Apr 2014 13:40

chetak wrote:
... tribal CEP.


A rather unfortunate thing to happen - it is tough to remain neutral , but it should be done, as much as possible.


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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby chetak » 21 Apr 2014 14:08

Marten wrote:There's certainly history there. Kulkarni vs. Bhagwat vs. Singh; Ramdas vs. India; and so on.

When Adm Joshi decided to resign, most folks held Sinha responsible owing to the media reports that he refused to take responsibility and resign. In my unlearned and very humble opinion, the series of accidents and the media coverage was preparation and pressure for Adm Joshi to leave.

We've had many incidences - perhaps the oldies can tell us more about the day Singh was sacked and the relation to ABVs trip to Andaman that day.


I, like countless others, actually saw the unmarked RAW aircraft parked at the Cochin Naval terminal specially positioned to convey the chosen one to replace ADM Bhagwat. We only realized much later. Very strange to see a completely unmarked aircraft with not one identification mark on it. That itself is usually a give away that some dirty work at the cross roads is going down. The Armed forces were completely cut out of it.

Imagine, a civilian coup against the Armed Forces, ONLY in India. :)

Now, they have rearranged the succession plan for the IN also to suit themselves. The IAF is next. The Army is already done. This is what Gen VK Singh tried so hard to prevent but failed.

the saint has been complicit in all of the shenanigans. so much for the spotless mundu.
Last edited by chetak on 21 Apr 2014 14:14, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby chetak » 21 Apr 2014 14:20

Marten wrote:How about the adverse comments in Bhagwat's own CR by Adm Nadkarni?
Which of the CNSs was truly unbiased and professional? (Please don't say Ramdas though).



Adm Arun Prakash was truly unbiased and professional, there are others too. Not such a rare commodity as one would imagine.

the less said about ramdas the better.

unbiased and professional never applied throughout his career.

He is currently unbiased and professional with the ford foundation and thick as thieves with pakis of the virulently poisonous kind.

ford foundation types are not the jai Hind types anyway. kejriwal is a prime example of one and he was/ is only patronized by people who are unbiased and professional. :rotfl:

I fear greatly for the siachen and other issues, the resolution of which is primarily being driven by outside forces, greatly inimical to India.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby chetak » 21 Apr 2014 14:50

Ever since one retired chief moved very successfully into the arms business, the pathway he blazed opened the eyes of many to this wondrous world of power and pelf.

Many have followed since, some of them chiefs, many of them indians.

The first openly and forceful political interference in the IN Chief selection was done by good old Georgy boy who unfortunately let tribal considerations influence and vastly dilute the CNS appointment criteria.

This was also babu influenced aimed at reinforcing the "civilian control" the forces. All has been down hill since.

There were other efforts earlier in other services. The IN seemed relatively immune except for the normally accepted father in law, son, son in law situations.

Though he did some good, georgy boy damaged the control and command edifice of the higher echelons of the services by openly tolerating political parties lobbying for regional and caste considerations. Maybe this was coalition dharma before the word was invented.

Earlier such efforts by political parties were more covert and furtive. With georgy presiding, it became an accepted norm. Now a days caste and regional demands are in the open and often in written recommendations after open solicitations by prospective candidates. Quid pro quo is the demanded norm and none will escape payments in some form unless the seniority line is scrupulously followed.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby chackojoseph » 21 Apr 2014 17:45

Marten wrote:There's certainly history there. Kulkarni vs. Bhagwat vs. Singh; Ramdas vs. India; and so on.

When Adm Joshi decided to resign, most folks held Sinha responsible owing to the media reports that he refused to take responsibility and resign. In my unlearned and very humble opinion, the series of accidents and the media coverage was preparation and pressure for Adm Joshi to leave.

We've had many incidences - perhaps the oldies can tell us more about the day Singh was sacked and the relation to ABVs trip to Andaman that day.


Adm Joshi's exit and unease with VADM Sinha was sensed much before the press reports starting to build up on the number of accidents in IN. Actually, the press reports finally came up due to obvious temperatures rising.

Adm Joshi's handling of certain ship captains, whom's ships met with accident and then the build of onus on VADM Sinha was actually pointing to exit of both Adm Joshi and VADM Sinha. Appointment of VADM Robin D as acting chief served as a final confirmation of the same. Nothing was abrupt, except the last sub accident which became the last straw.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby chetak » 22 Apr 2014 01:22

Adm Sinha's resignation has been accepted by the GOI.

Govt approves voluntary retirement of superseded Vice Admiral in Navy

Time for saint mundu to go

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby chetak » 23 Apr 2014 08:55

X posted from Re: AK Antony's performance as Defence Minister - An assesment



Vipul wrote:Indian Defence: Sleaze, Subversion, Sabotage, Supersession and Succession.

It seems that the Defence Minister of India Mr Arackaparambil Kurien Antony was waiting for the din of the fifth and the biggest phase of elections to arrive so that the government could push its agenda of appointing a Naval Chief for which the powers that be had schemed for many months.

The appointment of Admiral RK Dhowan comes after 50 days of the resignation of Admiral DK Joshi. In any decent country the appointment of the next Naval Chief should have been immediate.

Admiral DK Joshi resigned on moral grounds, taking responsibility for series of accidents and mishaps, involving dozen vessels including two submarines. The government and most quarters in the Navy attributed these incidents to logistics, shipbuilding or age related problems. Even though, the indications of sabotage deserved serious consideration, it was disdainfully ruled out. It may be reiterated that all the accidents and mishaps had taken place on the shore. Only in February this year, the Navy conducted a massive Exercise TROPEX in which more than 70 vessels had participated, and there was not one accident / mishap in the mid-seas.

Many senior Indian Naval Officers that this author has interacted with are strong on the judgement that the accidents / mishaps are nothing unusual and are now coming to notice because of increasingly intrusive media.

If the accidents were ‘usual’, due to logistics problems or age related mishaps, then why did the Defence Minister accept the resignation of Admiral Joshi with amazing alacrity? When General VK Singh’s age issue was still with the MoD, there were babus who superciliously bandied that the General would not be allowed to resign and alter, the ‘succession plan’, as he served under the pleasure of the President. Why was Admiral Joshi’s resignation therefore not withheld by Mr Antony till his successor was found?

The resignation of a service chief by taking moral position or responsibility on any issue is huge symbolism. It is these gestures that provide impetus to integrity and moral muscle in the evolution of the organization. It does not in any way reflect any kind of guilt. The quality of inventory of the three services is more the responsibility of the government. To that extent, it was Mr AK Antony who should have resigned.

There are many stories in the air about the resignation of Admiral Joshi. Most of them portray the Defence Minister and his babus in conspiratorial roles. Admiral Joshi’s silence further deepens and fans the conspiracy theories.

The most robust theory was that the accidents and mishaps were used as a tool to compel Admiral to resign and to supersede the next claimant by Admiral RK Dhowan. This theory has now been vindicated. No upright officer would accept the position after so much of sleaze, manipulations and machinations. His appointment alters the entire ‘line of succession’, which vested interests, most significantly the ‘army lobby’ is now investing in a brazen manner.

Vice-Admiral Shekhar Sinha has been superseded. But for the fifth phase of the ongoing elections, this supersession story would have dominated the front page of newspapers and prime time television. The manipulators in government are advancing preposterous and bizarre logic for his supersession. They maintain that since most accidents took place in the Navy’s Western Command, Admiral Sinha as Flag Officer Commanding of that Command is also responsible. This argument nails the lie of Mr AK Antony that he did his level best to persuade Admiral DK Joshi against resigning. If Mr Antony did not find him guilty, how can he inflict that guilt on Admiral Sinha and supersede him. Moreover, why should this chain stop only at Admiral Sinha?

The moot question is: Will the new Chief Admiral RK Dhowan resign as and when the next accident takes place, or all logistics and age related problems of the naval inventory has been fixed forever?

From the sequence of events and the behaviour of principal protagonists the suspicion of subversion and sabotage becomes overwhelmingly strong. To people with Intelligence backgrounds, conversant with the machinations of ‘western arms lobby’ the sabotage angle behind the accidents was most plausible. If the accidents were not sabotage, the Ministry of Defence (MoD), the Indian Navy and other related organizations would have been impelled to meet the crisis on a war footing. Instead in the aftermath of these accidents increasing adversarial relationship was witnessed between the MoD and the Indian Navy. Some people in the MoD looked clearly happy, since the situation was now amenable for pursuance of their agenda.

I had followed General VK Singh’s age row case very intimately, and distinctly remember the vicissitudes. I was particularly intrigued by the machinery the ‘army lobby’ had assembled to ensure the exit of the General. This lobby included journalists, owners of television channels, some retired army officers, strangely one very senior Air Force Officer and even a former diplomat who had no locus standi on the issue. During that period, I was invited to many television channels.

To begin with, one prominent TV channel asked me whether I was ready to say on air that the General should resign. It also assured me that while taking this stand, the channel would vouch for the integrity of the General. I clearly understood the game-plan, being scripted by the government and carried forward by this particular news channel. Nevertheless, I did make myself available, but on the penultimate question on whether the General should resign or not, I said: “it is for the General to decide”. The anchor was aghast!

There were many occasions that a particular anchor of one channel while taking anti-General stand during debates, would prod me underneath the table to take on some of the worst detractors of the General. The anti-VK Singh industry also included a former national security advisor, who got himself invited to an interview by a TV channel, and during the course of which, and in an inebriated state, he led the journalist to the question: “Who has been India’s worst Army Chief?” Actually, given his own background, the answer was very simple for the anchor.

Even at that time Mr Antony could have resolved the age issue in respect of the General within hours. It may be mentioned here that the General while filing his nomination for Lok Sabha has mentioned his date of birth as maintained by him. Doesn’t it smite your conscience Mr Antony? Why is it that the names of recipients of kickbacks on AgustaWestland deal stop at the former Air Chief? Are you not interested in other names Mr Antony? How is it that most of the revelations regarding kickbacks on arms deals when they are at the verge of fruition are sabotage by some of the sleaziest countries in the world who dabble in arms business?

In reality, it did surprise everyone that why did the power behind your elevation as Defence Minister repose so much of faith in you? Going by precedence and proclivities of that power the reasons can be anything but ‘honesty and integrity’.

The extent of reach and influence that the ‘arms lobby’ has carved for itself under the present dispensation, can be gauzed by its ability to alter the ‘line of succession’ in the armed forces. Under you Mr Antony, the ‘succession plan’ has subverted the three services for posterity. This is your greatest gift to the Indian Armed Forces!

tushar_m

Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby tushar_m » 24 Apr 2014 00:02

INS Arihant the next generation Nuclear Submarine of India

INS Arihant , designed & developed in India is the next generation of nuclear submarine which will enter service by 2015-16 with the Indian Navy.The first glimpse of the submarine was shown on the report card of the Indian Government (UPA -2) puts it in the category of 6000 tons of submarine .This is well suited for the attack submarine but INS Arihant is a Ballastic missile submarine with nuclear propultion (SSBN) making it the lightest SSBN in service in the world. With only four Vertical launch tubes for the K-4 Class of submarine launched ballistic missile it fits well within the doctrine of “ No First use “ of nuclear weapons by India which was adopted in 1998.

This 6000 tons of nuclear submarine can only carry four k4 class ballistic missile or 12 k-15 ballastic missile’s with range of 750km with 1 tons warhead. This proves the existence of a soft policy on the nuclear matters by India , though a new government front runner have put a thought of abolishing this policy, but they were quick to retract from there statement.

The best possible use of this submarine by Indian Navy is to make it act like a hybrid Nuclear submarine which will act as a Nuclear attack submarine (SSN ) with an option to fire 4 of 3500km range ballistic missile with possible MIRV or 12 – K15 missiles with max range of 1900km with 180kg warhead.

There are news of three more of these class of submarines to be built with the second boat INS Aridhaman getting ready to be launched while the status of other two are not clear. All boat’s of this class will have one seven-blade propeller powered by an 83 MW (111,000 hp) pressurised water reactor .They can achieve a maximum speed of 12–15 knots when on surface and 24 knots when submerged. The Arihant class submarines are also fitted with a combination of two sonar systems – USHUS and Panchendriya making them a formidable enemy for the opposing forces at sea.

With the lead boat going through sea trials the Indian Navy is very excited to run the India made Nuclear submarine which will also boost the moral of the Indian Navy personals as some of the past months have bought some bad news of accidents & resignation of the Navy chief .

Finally what INS Arihant & the sister ships bring to the region is the power projection capability for the Indian navy. The Navy have in the past being operating the Kilo class & the Type 209 , but there operation’s are limited due to the limited capabilities of the both this submarines. But with the additions of INS Arihant with INS Chakra* these technical limitations are no bound for the Indian navy operations in the region.

INS Chakra (Akula 2 class submarine from Russia on lease for 10 years)

Source : Defenceradar.com

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby andy B » 24 Apr 2014 03:32

http://m.thehindu.com/news/international/japan-navy-chiefs-message-for-new-indian-govt/article5941398.ece/

Japan Navy chief’s message for new Indian govt.

Updated: Apr 24, 2014 02:11 AM , By Ananth Krishnan 

Admiral Kawano wants India to build closer ties with Japan

The new government that will take charge in New Delhi next month has been given a clear message from Japan’s top-most naval official: Tokyo hopes the Indian political establishment – which under two terms of the United Progressive Alliance (UPA) has generally been cautious on boosting military ties with Japan keeping China’s concerns in mind– will do “much more” to build closer relations.

Admiral Katsutoshi Kawano, Chief of Staff of Japan’s Maritime Self-Defense Force (MSDF), said his country has been “wanting very much” to re-join the bilateral Malabar sea exercises between the United States and India. Japan was last invited to join the exercise in 2007, but has subsequently been kept out after China protested the three-way exercises and suggested they were aimed at Beijing.

“We have been wanting very much to join the Malabar sea exercises, with United States and India,” Admiral Kawano said. “As I understand, the Indian Navy is keen and willing. But Indian politics is very complicated,” he said, speaking to The Hindu.

Admiral Kawano was among top naval officials from the U.S., China, Canada, France and New Zealand present at a reception Tuesday evening on board India's missile frigate INS Shivalik, which is in this northeastern Chinese port city – the headquarters of the Chinese Navy’s North Sea Fleet – to participate in multilateral maritime exercises to mark the 65th anniversary of the founding of the Chinese People’s Liberation Army Navy (PLAN).

“We very frequently hold exchanges with the Indian Navy, but we want to do much more,” Admiral Kawano said.

While he did not elaborate further, the Admiral appeared to be referencing the Indian government’s caution about going forward with the trilateral exercises. After a five-year hiatus, the Indian government told Japanese officials in January, when Prime Minister Shinzo Abe visited New Delhi, that Japan would be included in exercises later this year. The change in stance comes as the UPA’s second-term comes to an end.

The Admiral’s comments about the “complicated” politics in New Delhi however suggested that from the Japanese point of view, there was still some uncertainty about how committed the Indian government was to the idea amid different prevailing views in the government.

Some officials in New Delhi acknowledge that the government may have been excessively cautious in this regard. The policy now, they say, is to actively develop and improve ties with both Japan and China. One observer noted how “tabled have turned” in the past decade, when Japan was initially focused on mending ties with China and lukewarm towards India’s proposals to enhance then-limited naval drills between coast guards.

But under Mr. Abe, ties with China have plummeted over disputed East China Sea islands and questions of wartime history.

While Admiral Kawano was hosted as a member of the 21-country Western Pacific Naval Symposium (WPNS) which was held here this week, Japan was not invited to participated in maritime exercises held on Wednesday alongside the meeting to mark the PLA Navy’s anniversary.

While the PLAN’s commander Admiral Wu Shengli met with visiting naval chiefs – he also visited India’s INS Shivalik on Tuesday – he did not hold talks with Admiral Kawano. The Chinese Defence Ministry said the reason was “a series of inappropriate actions by the Japanese government and leaders”.

Admiral Kawano said he was “very concerned” and “worried” about the implications of China’s rapidly growing military strength on the region. But Japan, he said, was taking overdue steps to boost its military – which still is called a “self-defence force” in keeping with Japan’s post-war Pacifist Constitution.

Mr. Abe wants Japan to become a “normal country” with a proper military, citing China’s rise as a prime reason. China, however, has accused him of seeking to rewrite Japan’s wartime atrocities and post-war commitments.

On Saturday, Japan broke ground on a new radar station on an island close to those disputed with China – the first such move in four decades.

“Our Navy is not small,” Admiral Kawano said. “China has 1 billion people, so it will have a sizeable navy. We plan to expand a lot more.”

Japan also wanted to expand ties with India’s “very good navy” through more exchanges and port calls.

“We are very interested to help India develop its naval technology,” he added, pointing to the recent agreement for India to purchase 15 US-2 amphibious aircraft from Japan, which will mark the first instance of Japan selling major military hardware after the Second World War.




GD maybe just maybe a positive response to the above from the new Govt and IN combined with the export ban being lifted may yet see in the near future the Soryu MKI runnig amuck in the IOR in our near lifetime!!! :twisted:

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby uddu » 24 Apr 2014 07:57

In one area Japanese excel is the build time. We could learn and implement the same here so that the build time goes does and the numbers go up.

Philip
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Philip » 24 Apr 2014 12:28

USNI reports say that we seem to be happy with the lease of the Chakra and that another Akula may be under negotiations.

tushar_m

Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby tushar_m » 24 Apr 2014 19:20

Iribis is also expected to have VLS addition , according to some report i have read

but can't post direct links sorry

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby chetak » 25 Apr 2014 09:21

sunil-lamba-likely-to-be-vice-chief-of-navy

Vice Admiral Sunil Lamba, commandant of National Defence College, is expected to be appointed as Vice Chief of Naval Staff as part of a major rejig being undertaken at the top level in the maritime force.

Lamba, who is in line to be the Navy chief in 2016, will be taking the position of Admiral Robin Dhowan who took over as the head of the force a week back.

As part of the reshuffle, Eastern Command chief Vice Admiral Anil Chopra is expected to be moved to Mumbai-based Western Command, defence sources said.

Chopra will be succeeded by Vice Admiral Satish Soni, who is heading the Southern Command, the sources.

The Southern Command based in Kochi is now expected to be headed by Strategic Forces Commander Vice Admiral SPS Cheema, they said.

Deputy Chief of Naval Staff Pradeep Chatterjee is expected to head the tri-services Andaman and Nicobar Command in Port Blair.

The reshuffle at the top level was neccessiated by the sudden exit of former chief Admiral DK Joshi and Western commander Vice Admiral Shekhar Sinha.

As per seniority, Lamba is in line for being appointed as the next Navy chief in May 2016 after Dhowan's retirement.

Joshi resigned on February 26, taking moral responsibility after the Navy was hit by a series of mishaps involving its submarines and other assets over the last 10 months.

Soon after Dhowan was appointed as the Navy chief, superseded Sinha sought voluntary retirement, creating vacancies at the top level in the force.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Austin » 25 Apr 2014 09:32

Indian Navy refuses Chinese navy chief’s request
The Indian Navy had to politely refuse an unusual request from the Chinese navy chief, Wu Shengli, when he came aboard one of India’s frontline stealth warships, INS Shivalik this week and wanted to be shown the Combat Information Centre (CII) or the all-important tactical room of the frigate.

It was learnt that Indian officers declined Wu’s request–considered a major break from established protocol followed by navies around the world -- saying since the ship was in the harbour, the room was locked and was not open to outsiders.

But Wu insisted on seeing the room and his aides attempted to convince the Indian side that the Chinese admiral, member of the powerful Central Military Commission, headed by President Xi Jinping, was particularly keen to see the CIC.

At this, Wu was told that he was welcome to visit the CIC during the exercise, which was slated for the following day in the Yellow Sea.

Wu did not agree.

Soon after Wu and the rest of the PLA navy team left the Indian ship.

The incident occurred on Tuesday evening when Wu, flanked by 15 top Admirals from People’s Liberation Army (PLA) navy, marched on to Shivalik, docked in the eastern Chinese city of Qingdao where it had arrived took part in a naval exercise to mark People’s Liberation Army (PLA) navy’s 65th year of founding.

Wu was on the ship to attend the reception thrown by the 300-odd crew of the ship.

As Captain Puruvir Das, Shivalik’s commander and the Indian ambassador Ashok K Kantha escorted Wu and his officers to tour the vessel, Wu said he wanted to see a specific room – the CIC; the CIC is considered to be the “nerve centre” of any warship, a room with its equipment that could give a senior navy officer a sharp insight into the ship’s strengths and capabilities.

The Indian side were taken unawares by Wu’s request as it is unheard of for the chief of a navy to make a request to see the CIC of another country’s warship; China itself is not known to throw open its warship CICs to military officers from other countries.

Sources said Wu broke away from protocol by asking to see the CIC. It was learnt that Captain Das explained to Wu that he was not in a position to take him to the CIC but would gladly give him a tour of the rest of the ship.

Chinese officers were given more access to the Shivalik this time than in 2012 when it had come to Shanghai.

Sources said the Chinese officers were very interested in Shivalik and was surprised that it had sailed all the way from Port Blair without any escort vessel or any other supervisory officer on board other than Captain Das himself.

Das refused to comment on the Wu Shengli incident and instead said that the exercise went off smoothly and that he was looking forward to engaging with the Chinese navy more frequently and deeply.

“This was the highest engagement with the Chinese navy we have had so far. But we do not want to stop at this and every year the level should go higher and higher,” Das told HT.

“We brought a Chetak helicopter that was deployed during the exercise which was an anti-hijack operation. Three ships, one each from China, Indonesia and India took part in the exercise,” Das said.

Ships from Pakistan, Singapore, Brunei and Bangladesh participated in the exercise carried out in different groups.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Paul » 25 Apr 2014 09:32

http://www.samachar.com/An-unusual-requ ... bfhag.html

An unusual request from China’s Navy Chief
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China's Navy Chief Admiral Wu Shengli being received on the deck of INS Shivalik by its Captain Puruvir Das when he visited the ship at Qingdao on Tuesday.
PTI China's Navy Chief Admiral Wu Shengli being received on the deck of INS Shivalik by its Captain Puruvir Das when he visited the ship at Qingdao on Tuesday.

Admiral Wu Shengli, China’s Navy Chief, this week caught Indian officials off guard by asking for an impromptu tour of the most sensitive nerve centre of the advanced Indian missile frigate, INS Shivalik, while on a brief courtesy call on the visiting ship.

The Shivalik arrived at this eastern port city, which is the base of the PLAN (People’s Liberation Army Navy) North Sea Fleet, on Sunday to take part in exercises on Wednesday to mark the Chinese Navy’s 65th anniversary.

Indian officials told Admiral Wu that the ship’s operations room — the Combat Information Centre — was among the Indian Navy’s most advanced and was kept locked when the frigate was docked at harbour. Under standard operating procedures, it cannot be opened without exception.

The Admiral’s request surprised Indian officials as navy officials usually follow an unwritten protocol for visiting ships and refrain from asking to see areas regarded as sensitive. That the request came amid a goodwill visit aimed at boosting trust put officials in an awkward situation: they did not want any incident casting a shadow on maritime exercises that were described as positive and the most high-level ever between the navies.

Fortunately, sources said, the frigate’s Commanding Officer, the experienced Captain Puruvir Das, deftly handled the situation. He stood his ground and told the Admiral that operating procedures meant that the CIC had to remain closed at harbour with no exceptions, but told him that he would be welcome to visit the ship at sea during exercises, an unlikely prospect for China’s Navy Chief.

Notwithstanding the Admiral’s unexpected request, officials said the Shivalik visit would go a long way in boosting trust between the navies. Captain Das said “the exercises went very well,” but did not comment on Admiral Wu’s request. “There were no problems, despite the language barrier,” he said. “This was the highest engagement we have had so far with the Chinese Navy. But we do not want to stop at this and every year the level should go higher and higher.”

Mock hijack
In a three-way exercise involving China and Indonesia simulating an anti-hijack operation, the Shivalik deployed its Chetak helicopter as its crew raided the “hijacked” vessel.

The drill was the most advanced of three different exercises held on Wednesday. Seven countries were invited by China for the drills, including Bangladesh, Pakistan, Singapore and Brunei. The drill marked a rare instance of Indian and Pakistani ships at the same exercises, although they did not come into contact as they were involved in different drills.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby negi » 25 Apr 2014 13:23

Indians as usual think that a visit by Chipanda chief was meant for some good will measure or will improve so called relations ; kidhar se ate hain aise namoone ?

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby vishvak » 25 Apr 2014 13:38

negi wrote:Indians as usual think that a visit by Chipanda chief was meant for some good will measure or will improve so called relations ; kidhar se ate hain aise namoone ?

May be it is better have some new special ships tailored for exercises.. with latest radars of course.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Singha » 25 Apr 2014 13:40

we should keep 1 foxtrot and 1 leander in ready mode dockside for such exercises.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Ganesh_S » 28 Apr 2014 12:25


Ganesh_S
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Ganesh_S » 28 Apr 2014 12:28

The accused are reportedly working in the electronics department of the naval dockyard.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Kapil » 28 Apr 2014 12:40

Puruvir Das is the son of V Adm Premvir Das.
You bet he knows what to do in such situations.
Ambassador Kantha is also an old China hand and its good that both of them were on board.

chetak
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby chetak » 28 Apr 2014 12:44

Kapil wrote:Puruvir Das is the son of V Adm Premvir Das.
You bet he knows what to do in such situations.
Ambassador Kantha is also an old China hand and its good that both of them were on board.


The han admiral surely thought that he would overawe a mere SDRE junior Indian officer.


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