Indian Naval News & Discussion - 12 Oct 2013

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Singha » 09 Jun 2014 16:39

New Delhi: India on Monday successfully test-fired the 290 km-range BrahMos supersonic anti-ship cruise missile from the country's largest indigenous warship INS Kolkata off the coast of Karwar in Karnataka.

The Mazagon Dockyards Limited-built INS Kolkata is yet to be formally inducted into the Navy and will have the capability to launch 16 BrahMos missiles in one go when it enters operational service.

The missile was test-fired from INS Kolkata, which is a new ship under Project 15-Alpha series, off the coast of Karwar this morning and all the parameters were met during the test, defence officials said.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Singha » 09 Jun 2014 16:41

on June14 , Namo is going to sail onboard the INS Vikramaditya also based in karwar. hopefully and surely a big lineup of ships and firepower demo will greet him incl another brahmos test from the Kolkata.

would have been awesome to see a ripple fire of 2 Barak8s fore and aft arrays from the Kolkata steaming through the monsoon rain banks at full speed through the swells....dark grey outline of the ship and then the twin orbs of flame arcing up into the clouds...but we will get there soon.

there is haunting gameplay footage of this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-3foCU2Cnk
start from around 1:00 as the pilot climbs up on the deck to take his f-18 out. observe the task force of destroyers on the left.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby NRao » 09 Jun 2014 21:18


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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby John » 10 Jun 2014 01:14

Singha wrote:btw when is she being inducted into service?

July i believe.

Speaking of P-15A, MDL right now has nothing in pipeline other than P-15B. IMO we should be cranking out P-17s while P-17A takes shape. Shouldn't be too hard to modify the current design to have 32 Cell Barak-8 in place of Shtil and replace Klub with Brahmos.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby putnanja » 10 Jun 2014 04:11

Seabird flies, other bird’s fate at stake

...
Union minister for environment and forests, Prakash Javadekar, said here today that the government had given the go-ahead to the expansion of Project Seabird, a naval station in Karwar, on the north Karnataka coast, where the Western Ghats roll into the Arabian Sea.

Phase I of the naval base, which will eventually be the largest on the west coast, has already been completed. Karwar is the only port where the Indian Navy’s largest vessel — the aircraft carrier INS Vikramaditya, that Prime Minister Narendra Modi is expected to visit on Saturday — can be berthed.

Javadekar also said his ministry was looking at a proposal for setting up of a radar station in an island in the Bay of Bengal that is the only home to a rare species of bird — the Narcondam Hornbill.

It is also considering another proposal to set up a chain of security stations, listening posts and monitoring centres on the west and east coasts for the Coast Guard and maritime security agencies.
...

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Singha » 10 Jun 2014 07:58

sure John . this circus of building ships in blocks of 3 to account for obsolescence due to the 10 yr build times has to stop.
it can happen if like japan or soko or spain we go from keel laying to IOC in 5 yrs for large warship hulls.
and better funding needed to build more ships in parallel.

our build times are ridiculously bad. thats the root cause of this 3 fetish.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby SaiK » 10 Jun 2014 22:13

must ensure locals are given priority and made happy. after all, we are in modi Sarkar times.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby member_26622 » 10 Jun 2014 22:34

John wrote: Shouldn't be too hard to modify the current design to have 32 Cell Barak-8 in place of Shtil and replace Klub with Brahmos.


Replacing Brahmos with anything else is like going to battle with a dagger instead of a sword. This is a superstar of a weapon!

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Singha » 11 Jun 2014 08:17

the hypersonic brahmos 2 might be fatter & shorter with a wedge shaped nose like the hypersonic test vehicles we see. might need a bigger volume tube inside the UVLS system. so could be carried in the largest ships like P15A+ I suppose.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby John » 11 Jun 2014 08:27

nik wrote:
John wrote: Shouldn't be too hard to modify the current design to have 32 Cell Barak-8 in place of Shtil and replace Klub with Brahmos.


Replacing Brahmos with anything else is like going to battle with a dagger instead of a sword. This is a superstar of a weapon!

Nik, i am not following you? Did you mistype Brahmos in place of Klub?

Singha, it is unknown if Brahmos VLS cells installed in P-15A are Russian UVLS (which can fire Klub) or L&T Brahmos Vertical Launchers.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Philip » 11 Jun 2014 21:08

It would be curious if L&T's VLS cell could not fire different missile types,as the ATV's silos can launch both the K-15 and K-5 missiles.Fielding a UML should be mandatory,as new missiles will in time replace old ones.The std. torpedo tube size have not changed for decades.They can fire a variety of differing missile types both east and west without any modification.
I earlier referred to VLS silos in the flight deck of the Kiev carriers,sorry,it should've been the Kuznetsov instead.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Ankit Desai » 12 Jun 2014 02:23

I am watching project seabird from long time and a keen observer of it. I visited google map time to time. After reading Naval air station's clearance in part of Phase II, I was looking at Karwar base on google map. It will be interesting to see where naval air station will come up ?! There is definitely scope to expand naval base in term of jetty, dock but tough to find place to develop a naval air station which can act as major air station.

The primary concern is electricity line running very close from east of the base, form the north to south direction. It doesn't look like electricity line we see on streets but more of high high towers which carry electricity between states or cities.

I am not sure if they would like to build air station further east of that electricity line !

It is just observation. further discussion is welcome.

-Ankit

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby NRao » 12 Jun 2014 02:49

They could bury those lines. Is that a big deal? And, today there are very non-intrusive ways to "dig".

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Ankit Desai » 12 Jun 2014 06:33

If that is the only solution than yes, they will do it. It is not a big deal.

I saw the street line I talked about going under ground and it was neat. But here the east side line is high voltage carry one. I didn't come through any example which describe such line going underground.

I don't want to restrict view to just east side electricity line.

On south of naval base there is a river called naval base river and north side there are Oil storage like structure area and fishing town with deep karwar port. So more restrictions to build air station.

So far I can think of only two spots where they can build it.
1. There is an area big enough further north of Oil storage but I am not see space enough to build road through it. Again if they want than they can dig tunnel there !
2. South of the Karwar town towards to naval base. That is the only good spot I can think of. If Javdekar can clear Narcondam island radar station than he can clear forest land for sure.

-Ankit

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby NRao » 12 Jun 2014 06:59

were they not thinking of Panjim or some other place in Goa as an alternative?

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Ankit Desai » 12 Jun 2014 07:06

A Naval air station at Panjim is for the plan to move existing naval air station INS Hansa at Dabolim. IIRC the plan is to move from Dabolim,Goa air port to free it for civilian air traffic.

While in Phase II of Project Seabird Navay is going to build an air field at Karwar base for Naval air operations.

Seabird Phase II: Nation’s Naval might gets a fillip

Under Phase II, the Naval station will get an airbase, armament depot, dockyard complex and missile silos, apart from additional jetties, berthing and anchorage facilities in addition to base around 30 major warships including INS Vikramaditya, Scorpene submarines and a number of surface ships, almost on a par with US Navy's mammoth Norfolk naval base in Virginia. The base, expected to harbour about 60 major warships by 2020, will become Asia's largest naval base, say Indian Navy sources.


-Ankit

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Singha » 12 Jun 2014 08:01

NRao wrote:were they not thinking of Panjim or some other place in Goa as an alternative?


I dont think there is enough free coastal land in goa. coastal belt in goa is like gold - owned by influential people or protected beaches.
land aquisition cost would be way higher.

Dabolim naval ops has been a real pain point - civilian flights only get to operate in a small window in morning and afternoon, rest of time is for navy. it hurts both.
plus its small terminal and I guess no permission to expand.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Philip » 12 Jun 2014 14:36

The Russian PM is accoridng to media reports also going to be in Karawar on the Vik-A along with PM Modiji.An excellent opportunity for both PMs to exchange notes on Indo-Russian defence cooperation,pluses and minuses.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby John » 12 Jun 2014 19:06

Philip wrote:It would be curious if L&T's VLS cell could not fire different missile types,as the ATV's silos can launch both the K-15 and K-5 missiles.Fielding a UML should be mandatory,as new missiles will in time replace old ones.The std. torpedo tube size have not changed for decades.They can fire a variety of differing missile types both east and west without any modification.
I earlier referred to VLS silos in the flight deck of the Kiev carriers,sorry,it should've been the Kuznetsov instead.

L&T Cells seem to be marketed solely for use with Brahmos, it might be compatible with Klub but perhaps it hasn't been integrated with latter due to license issues. I know that is big obstacle with integrating American made weapons systems with Sylver VLS.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby member_23364 » 12 Jun 2014 21:58

Any news on when the Kamorta will be commissioned? I know the Kolkata class is having some issues but what happened to the Kamorta? 8 years+ to build a 3000 ton ship...

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby member_23370 » 12 Jun 2014 22:26

Should be commissioned in July.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby maz » 12 Jun 2014 23:54

First of 8 new Mk. 4 LCU (YN 2092) L 51 was launched at Rajabagan o on Mar 12, 2014. Sadly, there was no announcement from GRSE. However, we are lucky that someone took a video of the event.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1muR-EMHv4

Notice that the vessel is not really complete. for instance, the bow ramp is missing. This requires severla months of outfitting. Current practice is build the vessel completely prior to launch. However, I suspect a lack of a shiplift facility at Rajabagan (and possibly at GRSE Main yard too) leads to this state of affairs.

See Colombian LCU built by COTECMAR for comparison
http://www.webinfomil.com/2014/02/arc-g ... ecmar.html


That said, GRSE is looking for pvt yards to partner with.


http://www.grse.nic.in/eoi/Invitation_o ... for_JV.pdf

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby John » 13 Jun 2014 02:17

Thanks Maz for that info forgot about those vessels. Ironically even COTECMAR is state owned SY.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Sanjay » 13 Jun 2014 06:42

Been to COTECMAR (Feb 2014), seen the ship in question. Let's just say looks can be deceiving ! Also, the kind of support COTECMAR has from the navy (which runs COTECMAR for all practical purposes) is incredible. Can't say more here. The COTECMAR shiplift facility in Cartagena though is the envy of Latin America.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Singha » 13 Jun 2014 21:45

Goa: The Prime Minister Narendra Modi is scheduled to embark INS Vikramaditya, the latest aircraft carrier inducted into the Indian Navy, for a 'Day at Sea' with the Western Fleet on Saturday. The Prime Minister would be embarking the 'carrier at sea' by helicopter and is likely to witness a host of exercises by the frontline warships and aircraft of the Indian Navy.
He would be received at INS Hansa (Naval Air Station at Goa) by the Chief of Naval Staff Admiral RK Dhowan and a 150 men ceremonial 'Guard of Honour' would be presented to him on arrival.
During the day, the Prime Minister would witness 'Air Power Demonstration' by various naval aircraft including MiG 29K, Sea Harriers, P 8 I Long Range Maritime Patrol Anti-Submarine Warfare aircraft, TU 142M, IL 38 SD, Dorniers, Kamov and Sea King helicopters. He will also watch high speed manoeuvres by Western Fleet ships including aircraft carrier INS Viraat, Delhi class destroyers, Talwar class frigates etc. The Prime minister shall also witness the take-off and 'arrestor wire landing operations' and high speed low level operations of MiG29 K integral fighters onboard the flight deck of INS Vikramaditya.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Austin » 14 Jun 2014 09:45

Live webcast of NaMo visit to Vikramaditya , He just landed on the aircraft carrier

http://webcast.gov.in/live/

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby negi » 14 Jun 2014 09:57

Singha wrote:imo why not move 8 brahmos (reduce down from 16) to between the funnel and hangar in the back? has been done in one rajput class.

May be because of a higher risk of missile colliding with the raised superstructure .

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Manish_Sharma » 14 Jun 2014 12:21

NaMo:

"I don't know why the previous govts didn't do it, may be this pavitra work had to happen by myself, so our govt. has already taken a decision to make a war memorial for our soldiers........"

8)

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Hari Seldon » 14 Jun 2014 13:26


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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Manish_Sharma » 14 Jun 2014 14:10


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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Kakkaji » 15 Jun 2014 07:46

Modi sees what no PM has in 30 years

For a powerful Prime Minister, the view is stunning: not in 30 years has an Indian Prime Minister assumed office when India’s navy is operating two aircraft carriers, each capable of multiplying fire-and-surveillance power by over a thousand miles.

The moment is barely lost on Modi. On landing, he heads straight to a MiG29K fighter aircraft – the main combat arm of the Vikramaditya – that is lashed to the deck with its canopy open.

The chief of naval staff, Admiral Robin Dhowan, and a pilot brief him as Modi, his kurta, pyjamas and blue waistcoat contrasting with the pilot’s G-suit, climbs up a ladder into the cockpit without assistance.

He takes off the naval cap he is wearing, looks at the cameras and waves the cap. It’s power projection’s snapshot moment: a brand new PM in a brand new fighter aircraft on a brand new aircraft carrier. Pose over, he goes for another: he pats the pilot.

The Prime Minister’s actions did the talking. A scheduled media interaction was cancelled. But Modi used a meeting with the ship’s company to emphasise what had brought him here.

In his brief speech to the officers and sailors, Modi began by underlining the importance of his visit. “I came directly to you after assuming office. This shows my priority and the government’s priority of doing something for the sacrifices you have made.”

The event was marred by rain. Also, not enough naval pilots have been trained yet to be “carrier qualified”. Only 12 pilots have been certified to land and take off from the ship so far. Earlier this month, one made a “hard-landing” that damaged the nose wheel of the plane.

Modi was given a demonstration, though, of the assets of the navy’s Western Fleet (barring submarines) --– its “sword arm” ---- when 14 ships steamed past as he took a salute from the flag deck after two warships, the Tegh and the Tarkash, had fired four anti-submarine missiles to mark the beginning of the show.

Among them were the Viraat, of course, Delhi-class destroyers, four frigates and surveillance aircraft --- including the most recently acquired, US-made P8i --- that flew past.

Inside the VKD, speaking to the sailors, Modi said: “Hum vaade nahin, iraade leke aae hain (I’ve come not with promises but with intent).”

Part of his intent, he said, was to look after the welfare of soldiers by implementing a long-demanded “one rank, one pension” scheme and by finding job opportunities for skilled soldiers who retire early (often as early as 40 years of age).

Much of his intent, he said, though, was to upgrade the technology of the military. One senior naval officer who was at the meeting said he was impressed “with the way Modi linked the importance of maritime security with economic growth”.

Modi emphasised that India’s sea lanes of communication depended on the security of maritime trade that the Indian Navy must guarantee.

“I believe that a country’s security should be at its best for the people to live in ease. New technologies have come, which would add to the strength of the psyche of the defence personnel. INS Vikramaditya is an example of that,” Modi said.


He emphasised too the need to reduce dependence on imports. Nearly 80 per cent of India’s military equipment is imported. The Vikramaditya still has Russian crew on board who have to certify that the Indians are maintaining its systems well and certify the carrier qualification of the MiG29K pilots.

“We are not here to give challenges to anyone, but we will also not take challenges casually. Our defence mechanisms would be the best in the world,” Modi said, referring to delays in procurement and complaints that the armed forces were using outdated technology.

The naval base where the VKD is to be home-ported -– Karwar, also called “Project Seabird”, on the north Karnataka coast ---- is also a work in progress, more than 30 years after its execution began. Seabird has yet to conclude its Phase I. Last week, the Centre said it was granting it the approvals for Phase II.

The 44,500-tonne Vikramaditya -– named not after the kings who ruled in ancient and medieval India but because of the word’s Sanskrit meaning, “brave and powerful as the shining sun” --- can be berthed only in Karwar because no other naval dockyard has enough space for a warship its size.

Modi told its crew: “May you shine like the aditya (the sun). May you outshine everything that comes your way.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Ajit.C » 15 Jun 2014 10:52

Vikrant was decommissioned in 1997. So how can it be 30 years?

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby sum » 15 Jun 2014 11:24

^^ Maybe no PM visited and spent time on a AC till now in 30 years?

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Will » 16 Jun 2014 11:37

There have been reports around these past few days that the people that had to give up their land for the Seabird project have still not been compensated. This is pathetic. Then you blame foreign funded NGO's for fishing in troubled waters. When will the govt realize that people that make sacrifices for the nation have the right to a life of dignity too.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby chetak » 16 Jun 2014 11:45

Will wrote:There have been reports around these past few days that the people that had to give up their land for the Seabird project have still not been compensated. This is pathetic. Then you blame foreign funded NGO's for fishing in troubled waters. When will the govt realize that people that make sacrifices for the nation have the right to a life of dignity too.


Will, old chap,

Are there are enough Indian NGOs around to agitate for the rights of such displaced persons, if needed??.

Why should foreign NGOs enter the fray??

Why foreign funding for such agitations??

What are their motives??

WHY SHOULD FOREIGN NGOs AGITATE AGAINST AN INDIAN MILITARY PROJECT IN INDIA?? whose father, what goes??

ARE INDIANs ALLOWED TO DO SO IN OTHER COUNTRIES??

Do we need Dutch, Canadian, American and a whole host of other plantation oriented and crossly motivated morons to fish in troubled Indian waters, like they did in troubled Lankan waters during the LTTE fiasco?? Did we not learn a lesson from that episode or even the east timor episode??

or are we just third world no hope idiots who need to be colonized all over again by the great white massas and their plantation politics??

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Will » 16 Jun 2014 12:07

chetak wrote:
Will wrote:There have been reports around these past few days that the people that had to give up their land for the Seabird project have still not been compensated. This is pathetic. Then you blame foreign funded NGO's for fishing in troubled waters. When will the govt realize that people that make sacrifices for the nation have the right to a life of dignity too.


There are enough Indian NGOs around to agitate for the rights of such displaced persons, if needed.

Why should foreign NGOs enter the fray??

Why foreign funding for such agitations??

What are their motives??

WHY SHOULD FOREIGN NGOs AGITATE AGAINST AN INDIAN MILITARY PROJECT IN INDIA?? whose father, what goes??

ARE INDIANs ALLOWED TO DO SO IN OTHER COUNTRIES??

Do we need Dutch morons to fish in troubled Indian waters, like they did in troubled Lankan waters during the LTTE fiasco?? Did we not learn a lesson from that episode or even the east timor episode??

or are we just third world no hope idiots who need to be colonized all over again by the great white massas and their plantation politics??



Exactly!!!Foreign or Indian, why give a chance to anyone to agitate and why should there be any agitation. People have to file contempt proceedings against the govt to get what is rightfully theirs? Don't get me wrong . Seabird is vital for the country's defense. But how many decades since the land was taken. It's easy for someone to sit in an arm chair and preach how everyone should make sacrifices for the nation. Those who preach that should put themselves in the shoes of the displaced people. The compensation is peanuts anyway. It won't bankrupt the nation to be a bit more sensitive to the ones that make sacrifices.

It's the same with retired , disabled service men or families of martyred soldiers. Everyone preaches to them how they are expected to make supreme sacrifices. But when the time comes for them to be taken care of no one gives a cats eye to their plight. They are just thrown to the dogs.

We as a nation need to wakeup and make an effort to ensure the ones that make sacrifices and their families are provided with a life of dignity.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby chetak » 17 Jun 2014 10:11

Will wrote:
chetak wrote:
{quote="Will"}There have been reports around these past few days that the people that had to give up their land for the Seabird project have still not been compensated. This is pathetic. Then you blame foreign funded NGO's for fishing in troubled waters. When will the govt realize that people that make sacrifices for the nation have the right to a life of dignity too.{/quote}

There are enough Indian NGOs around to agitate for the rights of such displaced persons, if needed.

Why should foreign NGOs enter the fray??

Why foreign funding for such agitations??

What are their motives??

WHY SHOULD FOREIGN NGOs AGITATE AGAINST AN INDIAN MILITARY PROJECT IN INDIA?? whose father, what goes??

ARE INDIANs ALLOWED TO DO SO IN OTHER COUNTRIES??

Do we need Dutch morons to fish in troubled Indian waters, like they did in troubled Lankan waters during the LTTE fiasco?? Did we not learn a lesson from that episode or even the east timor episode??

or are we just third world no hope idiots who need to be colonized all over again by the great white massas and their plantation politics??



Exactly!!!Foreign or Indian, why give a chance to anyone to agitate and why should there be any agitation. People have to file contempt proceedings against the govt to get what is rightfully theirs? Don't get me wrong . Seabird is vital for the country's defense. But how many decades since the land was taken. It's easy for someone to sit in an arm chair and preach how everyone should make sacrifices for the nation. Those who preach that should put themselves in the shoes of the displaced people. The compensation is peanuts anyway. It won't bankrupt the nation to be a bit more sensitive to the ones that make sacrifices.

It's the same with retired , disabled service men or families of martyred soldiers. Everyone preaches to them how they are expected to make supreme sacrifices. But when the time comes for them to be taken care of no one gives a cats eye to their plight. They are just thrown to the dogs.

We as a nation need to wakeup and make an effort to ensure the ones that make sacrifices and their families are provided with a life of dignity.



Why are foreign NGOs getting involved in Indian Military projects??

Their only motivation is an anti national agenda, slice it any which way you like.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Sid » 17 Jun 2014 19:59

Main gun from INS Talwal seems to be missing?? Picture from recent Modi tour for duty.

http://www.livefistdefence.com/2014/06/ ... still.html

Image

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby titash » 17 Jun 2014 23:12

F40 also doesn't have the rukmini SATCOM atop the hanger unlike F50 and F45. Perhaps all these are installed only during yearly refits?

I heard that the russian 100mm guns have major serviceability issues, which is why the INS Kolkata had a license manufactured 76mm SRGM instead

Or Mashallah - perhaps the 100mm gun is gone and there is a 8 cell Brahmos launcher in its place :-) :-)

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby maz » 18 Jun 2014 10:05

Good catch on the missing main gun on F40. I am wondering if the ship was pulled out from a refit to make up numbers for the DAS event.

The 8 cell Klub UVLM launcher should be compatible with Brahmos unless I am mistaken.


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