LCA News and Discussions, 22-Oct-2013

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putnanja
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Re: LCA News and Discussions, 22-Oct-2013

Postby putnanja » 05 Dec 2013 00:07

LCA Flight test update:

From :
LCA-Tejas has completed 2418 Test Flights Successfully. (25-Nov-2013).
(TD1-233,TD2-305,PV1-242,PV2-222,PV3-376,LSP1-74,LSP2-287,PV5-36,LSP3-171,LSP4-99,LSP5-236,LSP7-70,NP1-5,LSP8-62)


To:
LCA-Tejas has completed 2427 Test Flights Successfully. (03-Dec-2013).
(TD1-233,TD2-305,PV1-242,PV2-222,PV3-378,LSP1-74,LSP2-287,PV5-36,LSP3-173,LSP4-101,LSP5-236,LSP7-72,NP1-6,LSP8-62)

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Re: LCA News and Discussions, 22-Oct-2013

Postby shiv » 05 Dec 2013 09:14

Mihir wrote:Okay, found a link

The Soviet GSh-6-30 aircraft cannon - Denis Evstafyev, edited by Anthony G Williams

The first 25-round burst made in flight was ended by the failure of all of the avionics in the cockpit. In further test flights there were cases of deformation and even tearing away of the nose undercarriage door, and because of the strong vibrations the ammunition feed fell apart. Electronic equipment in an aft-of-cockpit compartment also failed.


:lol:

Slightly off topic, but a nation with a degree of engineering and design maturity prepares for and handles failures differently from India. Failure is part of all engineering and design innovations but the Indian population - the press, the funding body (government) and others have to understand that and not behave like a jury comparing Indian failures with foreign successes, being ignorant of how the "successful foreign team" faced failures in the past,

For example, in relation to the MiG 23
http://www.airvectors.net/avmig23_1.html
The MiG-23 represented not merely very new design concepts for Soviet aviation engineers, but also a new level of complexity for Soviet combat aircraft. The end results were serious design flaws, coupled with poor reliability and a weak airframe. Hydraulic systems proved a particular nuisance, and one obnoxious problem that took too long to fix was that the brake parachute had an inclination to deploy spontaneously in flight.<snip> The nastiest problem was ugly handling characteristics under certain conditions at high angles of attack (AOA), as well as unfortunate spin behavior and poor yaw stability. It was a handful on takeoffs and landings. The attrition rate was high, with a number of pilots being killed early in the evaluation program. On top of that, the narrow landing gear track was less than sure-footed on wet or icy runways, and the low stance of the aircraft also created problems with foreign object ingestion into the engine intakes. Firing AAMs from the fuselage pylons could cause engine surges and flameouts from rocket exhaust ingestion.


Countries with successful aviation design bureaus and industry have seen failures in the past and have not self flagellated like a technically under-informed Indian media and public. They have stuck with it and come up trumps. This is someting the media and Indian public need to know.

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Re: LCA News and Discussions, 22-Oct-2013

Postby vina » 05 Dec 2013 09:20

shiv wrote:Countries with successful aviation design bureaus and industry have seen failures in the past and have not self flagellated like a technically under-informed Indian media and public. They have stuck with it and come up trumps. This is someting the media and Indian public need to know.


Much of the idiotic bad press about Indian programs is about Natashas and their P*imps plying the paid DDM and Foreign Media with "toffees" . Safely ignore the entire rubbish. Our systems go through a literal "Agni Parkisha" and will work when the chips are down. Not so sure about the entire imported stuff in Indian conditions. And even if our stuff doesnt work, we can fix them. Not so with the furrin stuff.

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Re: LCA News and Discussions, 22-Oct-2013

Postby member_27847 » 05 Dec 2013 14:30

Criticism will fade away with visible success.

What we want to see is Services or MOD NOT publicly criticizing DRDO, and working TOGETHER, and removing hurdles.

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Re: LCA News and Discussions, 22-Oct-2013

Postby Karan M » 05 Dec 2013 15:28

+1. Work together.

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Re: LCA News and Discussions, 22-Oct-2013

Postby Paul » 05 Dec 2013 15:40

Slightly off topic, but a nation with a degree of engineering and design maturity prepares for and handles failures differently from India. Failure is part of all engineering and design innovations but the Indian population - the press, the funding body (government) and others have to understand that and not behave like a jury comparing Indian failures with foreign successes, being ignorant of how the "successful foreign team" faced failures in the past,


There was even an cartoon episode of Tenali Rama on youtube lampooning the LCA effort

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Re: LCA News and Discussions, 22-Oct-2013

Postby member_23360 » 06 Dec 2013 08:47

LCA Flight test update:

From :
LCA-Tejas has completed 2427 Test Flights Successfully. (03-Dec-2013).
(TD1-233,TD2-305,PV1-242,PV2-222,PV3-378,LSP1-74,LSP2-287,PV5-36,LSP3-173,LSP4-101,LSP5-236,LSP7-72,NP1-6,LSP8-62)

To:

2431th flight on 05 Dec
TD1 : 233
PV1: 242
PV3: 378
LSP1: 74
LSP3: 174
LSP5: 236
TD2 : 305
PV2: 222
PV5: 36
LSP2: 288
LSP4: 101
LSP7: 74
NP1: 6
LSP8 : 62

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Re: LCA News and Discussions, 22-Oct-2013

Postby member_23360 » 06 Dec 2013 08:51

putnanja wrote:LCA Flight test update:

From :
LCA-Tejas has completed 2418 Test Flights Successfully. (25-Nov-2013).
(TD1-233,TD2-305,PV1-242,PV2-222,PV3-376,LSP1-74,LSP2-287,PV5-36,LSP3-171,LSP4-99,LSP5-236,LSP7-70,NP1-5,LSP8-62)


To:
LCA-Tejas has completed 2427 Test Flights Successfully. (03-Dec-2013).
(TD1-233,TD2-305,PV1-242,PV2-222,PV3-378,LSP1-74,LSP2-287,PV5-36,LSP3-173,LSP4-101,LSP5-236,LSP7-72,NP1-6,LSP8-62)


was it pv3 fitted with electronic warfare (EW) systems ?, if so, its a great news that its flight testing started ...

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Re: LCA News and Discussions, 22-Oct-2013

Postby Kartik » 06 Dec 2013 09:17

nope, PV-1.

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Re: LCA News and Discussions, 22-Oct-2013

Postby SaiK » 06 Dec 2013 09:27

Karan M wrote:+1. Work together.

++1, however this continuous ddm harassment must end .. it significantly affects the long-term marketing to our international-friends. i'd encourage all information channelized via authorized legal, verifiable and valid news source /org who are essentially the folks to keep a tab on these ddm scumbags.

otoh, the spin game will lose a market too.. a dork media is ideal to play the game, where we need to do some catch up.


tushar_m

Re: LCA News and Discussions, 22-Oct-2013

Postby tushar_m » 07 Dec 2013 16:01

Any BVR related tests on the cards ???

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Re: LCA News and Discussions, 22-Oct-2013

Postby Aditya_V » 07 Dec 2013 19:53

Firing Derby or r-77 would really make our day,

But I like the comment from the article
As a prelude today, Gp Capt Suneet Krishna, flying the Tejas aircraft commanded Infrared seeker missile through the fire control radar of the aircraft to lock on to the target.


Which means the radar is working.


OT: I think you need in normal fighters unless you have an IRST you the FCR to talk to the missile. which means that the intergration of Aim-9B and AIM 9L on Chinese J-6, J-7 could not have happened with US-Chinese cooperation

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Re: LCA News and Discussions, 22-Oct-2013

Postby Karan M » 07 Dec 2013 20:04

tushar_m wrote:Any BVR related tests on the cards ???


BVR integration is part of FOC, due by 2014 end. It will follow next year.
At any rate, the A2A software on the radar is working.

http://daily.bhaskar.com/article/NAT-TO ... 0-NOR.html

Wonder how the towed target was - it would have had to reflect RF for Tejas to lock on, and also, it would have to have a heat signature for R73E to work.

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Re: LCA News and Discussions, 22-Oct-2013

Postby KrishG » 07 Dec 2013 20:33


tushar_m

Re: LCA News and Discussions, 22-Oct-2013

Postby tushar_m » 07 Dec 2013 22:18

NEW DELHI: After a delay of over two decades and several cost overruns, indigenously developed Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas will be inducted in the IAF later this month in Bangalore.

The under development aircraft achieved another significant milestone today with the launching of an infrared seeking air-to-air missile that hit the target with precision and destroyed the target, a DRDO statement said.

The Initial Operational Clearance-II of the aircraft will be done on December 20 at its home-base in Bangalore after which it will be inducted into the IAF by Defence Minister AK Antony, Defence officials said here.

The aircraft will be the LCA Mark 1 and 40 of them will be inducted by the IAF and the DRDO and HAL will continue to make improvements in it and that more powerful and capable version would be inducted later in the force, they said.

The IAF, if everything moves ahead as per the present plans, will have a total of seven squadrons of such aircraft which comes to about 140 aircraft.

The aircraft project was sanctioned in 1983 at a cost of Rs 560 crore, the project will be completed exactly 30 years after it was launched at an approximate overall cost of around Rs 25,000 crore.

Even after its induction into the IAF, the aircraft will undergo several tests in the force and will have to attain the Final Operational Clearance (FOC) for getting ready for full operational deployment.

Meanwhile, the missile firing test demonstrated the required parameters and was conducted off the coast of Goa in Arabian Sea, DRDO said.

DRDO chief Avinash Chander congratulated the missile testing team, saying that with "this launch of missile from Tejas and successfully hitting the target in the first shot, we have demonstrated the total weapon system capability of LCA Tejas."

The LCA has been undergoing weapon release flight tests, for its operational clearance and eliminated an aerial target towed by the pilotless target aircraft Lakshya using its infrared seeker air-to-air missile.

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Re: LCA News and Discussions, 22-Oct-2013

Postby Rahul M » 07 Dec 2013 22:22

Karan M wrote:
tushar_m wrote:Any BVR related tests on the cards ???


BVR integration is part of FOC, due by 2014 end. It will follow next year.
At any rate, the A2A software on the radar is working.

http://daily.bhaskar.com/article/NAT-TO ... 0-NOR.html

Wonder how the towed target was - it would have had to reflect RF for Tejas to lock on, and also, it would have to have a heat signature for R73E to work.

they usually use flares for that.

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Re: LCA News and Discussions, 22-Oct-2013

Postby Karan M » 07 Dec 2013 23:04

yes but r-73e is designed to avoid flares and even if there was a r73e specific flare it would fall behind the target and missile would go for it. so they must have made a special target with both attributes - RCS (probably one with luneberg lens) and with adequate heat signature.
otherwise lakshya would have been toast.

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Re: LCA News and Discussions, 22-Oct-2013

Postby Rahul M » 07 Dec 2013 23:43

karan I think the pilot can lock the R73 onto a flare if he wants. I distinctly remember one Su-30 targeting and destroying a flare with a R73, way back in vayushakti 99.

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Re: LCA News and Discussions, 22-Oct-2013

Postby Kersi D » 07 Dec 2013 23:59

Which is the first sqdn to have the Tejas, on 20 Dec 2013 ? Which will be the base this sqdn, Sulur ?

K

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Re: LCA News and Discussions, 22-Oct-2013

Postby suryag » 08 Dec 2013 00:00

Hope atleast after this induction the dulhan is taken by the dulha and not left at parents place like last time(because she didnt know how to make aloo ka paratha although she knew the plain roti and dal dish). Thanks ADA team

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Re: LCA News and Discussions, 22-Oct-2013

Postby tsarkar » 08 Dec 2013 00:31

In all probability, the target would have been a Chukar extensively used by IN & IAF. Typically fired from helicopter decks of OPV's and targeted by SAMs & fighters. Given the test was at Goa, this might be the case.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northrop_BQM-74_Chukar

Note the reflectors here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:BQM-74E_Diagram.gif and here http://www.northropgrumman.com/Capabili ... fault.aspx

Also simulates IR signature different from flares.

Ofcourse, could have also been a Lakshya, but I believe IN has not placed any orders for it so far.

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Re: LCA News and Discussions, 22-Oct-2013

Postby putnanja » 08 Dec 2013 02:22

The news reports say that the target was towed by Lakshya. Check out the tarmak link

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Re: LCA News and Discussions, 22-Oct-2013

Postby SaiK » 08 Dec 2013 02:34

great news.. i am sure abhyas one day soon be a target drone - the challenge there could be how to reuse the drone 'cause towing at mach 3-4 may not be an easy thing to do... perhaps a target acquisition so advanced that can narrow on certain segment of the target, and at near proximity instance, it can separate from the drone, and the drone returns.. now the cost factor determining, we might need to only test against other missiles as targets (mach 2++) rather.

i am expecting paki f16s, bandars etc at around mach 2 +/-

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Re: LCA News and Discussions, 22-Oct-2013

Postby Indranil » 08 Dec 2013 03:56

This must have been the "Air Target Imitator". It is one of the two kinds of payloads that Lakshya can tow. That is what is used for testing SAMs till now. It is produced in BDL and provides the IR signature with adequate consistency.

Saik sahab,
Nobody other than the pilots of Mig-25 and derivatives speed up to outrun a missile. Everybody stays subsonic and try to break lock through maneuvers which involve sudden change in directions and employment of counter measures. Therefore, neither the Lakshya nor Abhyas is designed to be supersonic. They are both quite agile and employ counter measures, though I would like to see Abhyas to be 9G capable.

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Re: LCA News and Discussions, 22-Oct-2013

Postby koti » 08 Dec 2013 03:57

Aditya_V wrote:Which means the radar is working.


How can a radar cue an IR missile? I think this was discussed a while ago but I don't remember the conclusions. Does the seeker of the missile get a lock for the fire control radar?

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Re: LCA News and Discussions, 22-Oct-2013

Postby Karan M » 08 Dec 2013 05:09

indranilroy wrote:Nobody other than the pilots of Mig-25 and derivatives speed up to outrun a missile. Everybody stays subsonic and try to break lock through maneuvers which involve sudden change in directions and employment of counter measures. Therefore, neither the Lakshya nor Abhyas is designed to be supersonic. They are both quite agile and employ counter measures, though I would like to see Abhyas to be 9G capable.


One of the standard tactics to avoid missiles, especially RF ones, is to accelerate and dive towards the ground - puts extra clutter for the seeker to work against, also by putting extra distance between the target and the missile provides safety & a rapid change of course wastes the more limited energy available to the missile. Of course, against WVR missiles, the question is whether you have time to do all this, hence the proliferation of MAWS.

For the Akash, supersonic targets (IIRC) were procured from Selex.

In this case, the LCAs, I believe the IAF would have asked for radar performance to be validated against supersonic targets, and in heavy EW. The missile performance would of course dip appreciably against such targets (kinematics) bu they would be aware of that, since the R73E has been in service for quite a while now.

This test was a follow on, basically (IMHO) a confirmation of the radar working in actual conditions, and the handoff (FCR to missile) working well.

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Re: LCA News and Discussions, 22-Oct-2013

Postby Karan M » 08 Dec 2013 05:10

Rahul M wrote:karan I think the pilot can lock the R73 onto a flare if he wants. I distinctly remember one Su-30 targeting and destroying a flare with a R73, way back in vayushakti 99.


I wonder if the Russians sell us flares particularly intended for the R73. There was a hilarious bit i read about Finn tests of Igla or other IR SAMs. They used parachute flares and the Iglas didnt work. Later on, they got to know the system was designed to reject flares.

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Re: LCA News and Discussions, 22-Oct-2013

Postby SaiK » 08 Dec 2013 06:59

indranilroy sahib, can we say, a test target below mach-1 destruction has the same probability of hit rate (or proximity fuse detonation rate that leads to mission success) as that of say anything about that speed.. may be not mach2+, but how about mach 1.8?

bottom: if v&v on subsonic target is enough for production acceptance for supersonic target? I don't know the answers, perhaps it is... but it should be within the missile range.

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Re: LCA News and Discussions, 22-Oct-2013

Postby Philip » 08 Dec 2013 07:08

Great news,at last! Dec. 20th will mark a turning point in our indigenous efforts.Gratters to all who have made this possible.

Snippet from the Ind.Exp.
Lakshya launched by a naval ship towed the target,destroyed the target locking on by the onboard FCR,not the HMD.The "onus post IOC-2 will shift to HAL rolling out the production version aircraft".

Sadly and nostalgically,the first MIG-21FLs will be giving us a final salute on Dec. 11th.,after 50 years of glorious service.
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/iaf-s ... e/1204683/

IAF's first supersonic jet to be aviation folklore

Express News Service : Pune, Sat Dec 07 2013,

Air ForceMig-21 FL afterburner, an iconic delta-wing fighter aircraft that heralded the 'supersonic era' in Indian Air Force (IAF) will no longer be heard after December 11. (AP)

Related
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The deafening roar of the Mikoyan-Gurevich Mig-21 FL afterburner, an iconic delta-wing fighter aircraft that heralded the 'supersonic era' in Indian Air Force (IAF) will no longer be heard after December 11, the day it is set to fly into the annals of military aviation history.

"Four Mig-21 FL aircraft flown by pilots from the Operational Conversion Unit (OCU), last abode of the venerable jets, will fly a 'box formation' as Chief of the Air Staff, Air Chief Marshal NAK Browne takes salute at the ceremonial parade to bid them adieu," said a press release issued by Press Information Bureau, Defence Wing.

Formations of Mig-27 ML and Sukhoi-30 MKI will also flypast the parade square in reverence to the legend of a fighter jet that remains the most widely exploited platform in IAF history. It also saw action in the Indo-Pak wars of 1965 and 1971.

"Being limited in numbers, the Mig-21s played a restricted role in the 1965 war. They, however, played a crucial role in the 1971 war giving IAF the air superiority over vital points and areas in the western theatre. In the first ever supersonic air combat that ensued over the sub-continent in 1971, an Indian Mig-21 FL claimed a PAF F-104 Starfighter with its internal twin-barrelled guns alone. By end of the hostilities the IAF Mig-21s had claimed four Pakistani F-104s, two F-6s, one F-86 Sabre and a Lockheed C-130 Hercules," the release said.

According to the release, the pin-point accurate attack on the Governor's House at Dhaka by IAF pilots flying the Mig-21s proved to be a turning point in the war forcing the adversary to negotiate an eventual surrender.

"The Mig-21 was also fielded in the Kargil war. It was often the first choice of commanders as it provided unmatched flexibility due its unique attributes of high agility, fast acceleration and quick turn-around. The versatility of all the Mig-21 variants have immensely shaped the IAF operational philosophy for decades. The pilots, engineers and technicians who flew and maintained the Mig-21 have been strong proponents of its exceptional combat worthiness. Besides accomplishing major operational feats, the Mig-21 also ushered a revolutionary enhancement in the technological and manufacturing capabilities of our indigenous aerospace industry. With the phasing out of the Mig-21 FL, an era of relentless performance, precision deliverance and intimidating performance will also come to an end," the release said.

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Re: LCA News and Discussions, 22-Oct-2013

Postby putnanja » 08 Dec 2013 07:18

Decks cleared for IOC-2 on Dec 20 in Bangalore | Most test points cleared ahead of D-Day: DRDO | SP plans on track: HAL

Bangalore: India's Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas cleared a critical test point on Saturday, for its much-awaited Initial Operational Clearance (IOC-2), by firing an infrared (IR) seeking air-to-air R-73 E missile. The missile destroyed a target being towed by a pilotless target aircraft Lakshya, launched by an Indian Navy ship. The test was conducted off the coast of Goa and the flight was piloted by Gp Capt Suneet Krishna (retd), a Test pilot working with the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA).

It was for the first time the Tejas proved its air defence role by firing a missile at a target using an onboard fire control radar, while the earlier tests were done using a helmet-mounted display (HMD) system. The test also paved the way for the IOC-2 declaration, now confirmed to be held in Bangalore on December 20. Defence Minister A K Antony will lead a power-packed delegation for the December 20 event, for which the preparations have already begun at the Old HAL airport.

K Tamilmani, Director-General (Aeronautical Systems), DRDO, told Express that the missile firing has almost closed all test points remaining in the programme, ahead of IOC-2. “The pilot took the aircraft to around 4.5 km above sea level, locked-on to the target (considered as an interceptor) and 'killed' it with pin-point precision. There are no major test points remaining and we are on track for the historic event on December 20,” Tamilmani said. The braking systems of Tejas (with maximum all-up weight) was also tested in Goa to ensure that they don't get excessively heated up, while landing.
...
...


More details at the link

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Re: LCA News and Discussions, 22-Oct-2013

Postby tsarkar » 08 Dec 2013 09:56

koti wrote:
Aditya_V wrote:Which means the radar is working.
How can a radar cue an IR missile? I think this was discussed a while ago but I don't remember the conclusions. Does the seeker of the missile get a lock for the fire control radar?


For short ranged IR guided missiles, and when the target is in visual range (dogfight), HMDS provides the initial bearing to the missile INS & slews the missile tracker in the direction of target & missile is launched.

For short ranged IR guided missiles, and when the target is between visual & beyond visual, or if the pilot loves his radar more than his HMDS, radar provides the initial bearing to the missile INS as well as probable course. Once missile INS believes its at the optimum distance, IR seeker takes over.

Then there is the Pakistani mode - missile as a sensor. No radar, IRST or HMDS required. The missile seeker is activated by the pilot when he "feels" or djinns prompt him that enemy is close by. If missile seeker detected the target, it would bleep to the pilot who would launch the missile. That is how they fitted Sidewinders to Sabres, F-6 & F-7.

Ofcourse, its the most inefficient process. The missile seeker range & FoV is very small. Also many seekers require cooling just prior to launch. It was a one time irreversible process, and if the seeker could not find the target, then the missile was wasted in its hardpoint, or launched blindly.

This also is how they integrate Brazilian MAR-1 ARM on their JF-17. Some cueing is provided by their onboard sensors, but nothing dedicated like our HADF High Accuracy Direction Finding pods.
Last edited by tsarkar on 08 Dec 2013 10:09, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: LCA News and Discussions, 22-Oct-2013

Postby tsarkar » 08 Dec 2013 10:09

Karan M wrote:
indranilroy wrote:Nobody other than the pilots of Mig-25 and derivatives speed up to outrun a missile. Everybody stays subsonic and try to break lock through maneuvers which involve sudden change in directions and employment of counter measures. Therefore, neither the Lakshya nor Abhyas is designed to be supersonic. They are both quite agile and employ counter measures, though I would like to see Abhyas to be 9G capable.


One of the standard tactics to avoid missiles, especially RF ones, is to accelerate and dive towards the ground - puts extra clutter for the seeker to work against, also by putting extra distance between the target and the missile provides safety & a rapid change of course wastes the more limited energy available to the missile. Of course, against WVR missiles, the question is whether you have time to do all this, hence the proliferation of MAWS.

For the Akash, supersonic targets (IIRC) were procured from Selex.

In this case, the LCAs, I believe the IAF would have asked for radar performance to be validated against supersonic targets, and in heavy EW. The missile performance would of course dip appreciably against such targets (kinematics) bu they would be aware of that, since the R73E has been in service for quite a while now.

This test was a follow on, basically (IMHO) a confirmation of the radar working in actual conditions, and the handoff (FCR to missile) working well.


One technique is diving to increase clutter, whose rejection was not built into many seekers believing the target would be against a deep blue sky.
Other technique is to accelerate, since BVR missiles have limited energy, the extra catch up distance will further reduce propellant. This is why the effective range of AMRAAM/R-77 is ~50 km and not advertised 80-120 km powered flight range. Older planes like MiG-21 could fly Mach 2 for few minutes, newer ones can fly Mach 1.6 sustained, read somewhere that PAKFA can fly half its range (1500 km of 3000) supersonic.
Another technology is to jink (violent evasive manoeuvers) since missile seeker has limited FoV and BVR missiles are built for efficient cruising & lesser manoeuverability lacking large control surfaces.

Above will soon be old school. These days, everything is electronic. Its not far when a standoff jammer inserts a STUNEXT disguised as radar returns, that shuts RC, MC & FC down, and fires the ejection seat.

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Re: LCA News and Discussions, 22-Oct-2013

Postby tsarkar » 08 Dec 2013 10:11

putnanja wrote:The news reports say that the target was towed by Lakshya. Check out the tarmak link
Thanks for the update, that's good news we're self sufficient in this space.

Indranil
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Re: LCA News and Discussions, 22-Oct-2013

Postby Indranil » 08 Dec 2013 10:55

Karan M wrote:One of the standard tactics to avoid missiles, especially RF ones, is to accelerate and dive towards the ground - puts extra clutter for the seeker to work against, also by putting extra distance between the target and the missile provides safety & a rapid change of course wastes the more limited energy available to the missile. Of course, against WVR missiles, the question is whether you have time to do all this, hence the proliferation of MAWS.

I am aware of this and and some other ones too. I was not trying to be exhaustive. My point was the end-game would always be at subsonic speeds. No plane is agile at supersonic speeds.

SaiK wrote:indranilroy sahib, can we say, a test target below mach-1 destruction has the same probability of hit rate (or proximity fuse detonation rate that leads to mission success) as that of say anything about that speed.. may be not mach2+, but how about mach 1.8?

Its all a game of energy. Either the plane fools the missiles, or it runs it out of energy. A missile's energy is the sum total of the chemical energy in its fuel + P.E. + K.E. at launch. So the plane being targeted will try to make the missile exhaust as much of its energy before it gets near the plane. If it does get near the plane with sufficient energy, the pilot has very little chance flying supersonic as the missile is much faster than him and the control surfaces of his plane are not very effective at those speeds. So, you can be quite sure that if there is an end-game, it would be subsonic.

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Re: LCA News and Discussions, 22-Oct-2013

Postby NRao » 08 Dec 2013 22:16

On Dec 21st can we start talking of starting two more LCA lines and getting rid of MMRCA?

Vivek K
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Re: LCA News and Discussions, 22-Oct-2013

Postby Vivek K » 08 Dec 2013 23:00

^^^ Some years ago Rao Sahab you and I argued when I had said that LCA is the defacto MMRCA. Glad to see you accepting it.

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Re: LCA News and Discussions, 22-Oct-2013

Postby Kersi D » 09 Dec 2013 00:06

Kersi D wrote:Which is the first sqdn to have the Tejas, on 20 Dec 2013 ? Which will be the base this sqdn, Sulur ?

K


Hey I am anxiuosly waiting fro an answer.

K

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Re: LCA News and Discussions, 22-Oct-2013

Postby abhik » 09 Dec 2013 00:11

[unnecessary mud-slinging and rant deleted and user warned - rohitvats]
Last edited by rohitvats on 09 Dec 2013 09:09, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: user warned for mud-slinging and ranting

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Re: LCA News and Discussions, 22-Oct-2013

Postby RKumar » 09 Dec 2013 00:14

Kersi D wrote:
Hey I am anxiuosly waiting fro an answer.

K


IAF begins establishing first LCA squadron

The first squadron of LCA will be the IAF’s 45th squadron, the Flying Daggers. They would first be based in Bangalore before being stationed at Sulur, near Coimbatore, where the IAF wants the first squadron positioned.


Cheers,


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