LCA News and Discussions, 22-Oct-2013

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Re: LCA News and Discussions, 22-Oct-2013

Postby Shalav » 01 Feb 2014 04:41

OK - no problem. Kindly carry on then! :)

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Re: LCA News and Discussions, 22-Oct-2013

Postby Karan M » 01 Feb 2014 05:18

So....:mrgreen:....why cant we fit in an AL-31 derivative into the LCA and make a MK3 variant? Any significant issue, engineering resources and time apart (and the fact it'd be more of a MCA)?

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Re: LCA News and Discussions, 22-Oct-2013

Postby member_22605 » 01 Feb 2014 07:23

If its a saturn 117 and also if the aircraft's weight increase is within 500kgs without significant change in aerodynamic profile, then we would have a manned rocket :P

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Re: LCA News and Discussions, 22-Oct-2013

Postby vasu raya » 01 Feb 2014 07:41

Viv S wrote:1.Time: The USAF took its last F-16 delivery in 2005. The EPE became available only around 2011.


The F-16s UAE received or the ones offered in the MMRCA aren't brand new?

Viv S wrote:Also, we've ordered the 100kN variant of the F414. If excess thrust was prioritized over fuel burn/durability, wey'd have opted for the EPE variant instead.


having CFTs would help a F414-EPE even with slightly higher fuel consumption

--------------

the MMRCA selection was also a political smokescreen to get the teens out just so the strategic independence is retained, now why would IAF put its full weight behind the LCA whose design is American engine centric and totally forgo the MMRCA option? however, in taking such a position it probably dug itself a hole that Dassault is taking full advantage of

maybe the LCA has to make a transition at some point to weather sanctions to be seriously considered as the mainstream fighter

Then the Americans set the bar pretty high that GTRE would find itself in a deeper hole

btw, the above is a layman's reading

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Re: LCA News and Discussions, 22-Oct-2013

Postby member_20292 » 01 Feb 2014 09:30

raghuk wrote:If its a saturn 117 and also if the aircraft's weight increase is within 500kgs without significant change in aerodynamic profile, then we would have a manned rocket :P


I vote for Saturn 5 rocket in LCA. Even better :twisted: :P

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Re: LCA News and Discussions, 22-Oct-2013

Postby member_20292 » 01 Feb 2014 09:32

OT:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturn_AL-31

When we build the Su30 in India, aren't we also building the engines completely here in India as well?

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Re: LCA News and Discussions, 22-Oct-2013

Postby Shalav » 01 Feb 2014 11:01

No

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Re: LCA News and Discussions, 22-Oct-2013

Postby Austin » 01 Feb 2014 13:12

They were building MKI and Engine from locally sourced material for some time now , Atleast HAL says its 100 % indeginous

http://www.hindu.com/2009/08/20/stories ... 901100.htm

http://ajaishukla.blogspot.in/2011/10/b ... k-cmd.html

The Su-30 MKI’s engine, the AL-31FP that we build at Koraput, is in a class of its own in complexity.

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Re: LCA News and Discussions, 22-Oct-2013

Postby member_20292 » 01 Feb 2014 16:11

inadvertent help is thus being given to the kaveri program of the lca?

if the al 31 p is industry leading thrust specs, then kaveri should be quickly there as well, no? why is it so tough to copy the blade manufacturing, if you are doing it already?

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Re: LCA News and Discussions, 22-Oct-2013

Postby maitya » 01 Feb 2014 16:48

Austin wrote:They were building MKI and Engine from locally sourced material for some time now , Atleast HAL says its 100 % indeginous

http://www.hindu.com/2009/08/20/stories ... 901100.htm

http://ajaishukla.blogspot.in/2011/10/b ... k-cmd.html

The Su-30 MKI’s engine, the AL-31FP that we build at Koraput, is in a class of its own in complexity.

Nope ... Nah!!
We do NOT build anything like AL-31FP indigenously - we got tricked into it by the Ruskies, believing we would though!! And these claims are nothing but face-saving gestures that one does when the realization dawns that he's been tricked into paying-up for something which he is not going to get anytime soon.

But to be fair, if somebody is thick enough to be led on a garden-path thinking a global major Turbofan R&D and Manufacturer house would just hand-over (or sell) decades-worth of IP, this is exactly what will happen.
(in this case it happens to be the Russians - but hey, I'd stick my neck out and claim any Turbofan R&D and Manufacturing house of some repute from any country would have done it anyway).

So we do NOT build any major component of Al-32FP i.e. we do NOT build/manufacture the HPT Disks or Blades, LPR Disks or Blades, HPC Disk/Blades (not sure if they use blisks), Compressor Stators, IGV, Combustor or even the shafts. So what's left to manufacture - ah, the casings maybe (helps also put the "made in ..." sticker).

This poser of mine to Philipji should help in asking more precise to questions to understand what we manufacture and what we don't - AL-31FP "Manufacturing" in HAL.

We are not TFTA enough to "absorb" this level of technology, is what will be said by our all-weather friends.

So are the HAL folks lying ... nope again - it's classic case of "Ashwathama hatha, iti gaja ..." scenario from the Mahabharatha.

Yes we do manufacture AL-31FP - we do import the HPT adn LPT disks and blades and weld them together (or rivet them together) to form the HPT and LPT stages, import the compressor blisks all full stage and then affix/screw them to the shaft (which incidentally are also imported) and yes the combustor comes one full piece.
The casing is manufactured in-house after our Russian friends whispered the exact composition of the alloy in our years and how to manufacture it and then gave the required castings, moulds and furnaces etc.

Between discerning and interested folks can compare (wrt my poser to Philip-ji) this with what we do wrt Adour from not-so-all-weather-friend ... good place to start is here - Techfocus - 2011

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Re: LCA News and Discussions, 22-Oct-2013

Postby Singha » 01 Feb 2014 17:07

people may sometimes part with the low pressure section but the afterburner and esp the hot & high pressure section are guarded with ten layers of security.

and nobody will part with exotic materials tech whether fair or foul weather friends.

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Re: LCA News and Discussions, 22-Oct-2013

Postby Austin » 01 Feb 2014 17:19

maitya , TOT means that you build Engines or Aircraft from locally sourced material based on composition provided by OEM........so we do make engines or aircraft based on imported machinery and composition provided by OEM ......it is not always possible to make 100 % stuff from any aircraft in India because it requires huge investement and it would turn to be expensive than directly importing them

http://ajaishukla.blogspot.in/2011/10/b ... k-cmd.html

Our basic plan is to raise our manufacturing capabilities by sub-contracting and outsourcing many more components to private vendors. In fact, we are trying to graduate into the outsourcing of entire sub-assemblies. For the Sukhoi-30 MKI line at Nashik, we have sub-contracted larger components, including the empennage and the control surfaces. But, there are limitations — this requires more investment from the sub-contractors and a longer-term commitment from them.


http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/com ... 455755.ece

So we do NOT build any major component of Al-32FP i.e. we do NOT build/manufacture the HPT Disks or Blades, LPR Disks or Blades, HPC Disk/Blades (not sure if they use blisks), Compressor Stators, IGV, Combustor or even the shafts. So what's left to manufacture - ah, the casings maybe (helps also put the "made in ..." sticker).


Any source for this ? because it goes contrary to what I have heard from HAL Chief over the years in interview to FORCE and other reports quoting him.

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Re: LCA News and Discussions, 22-Oct-2013

Postby abhik » 01 Feb 2014 19:23

HAL says that the engines are made completely locally from raw materials, these "raw materials" might as well be kits to be screw-drivered together. Some time back we signed a deal to import close to a thousand AL-31 engine (kits?)
UMPO starts the delivery of 920 AL-31FP engines to India
UMPO starts the delivery of 920 AL-31FP engines via Rosoboronexport to India. It is the largest contract signed with a foreign customer during post-Soviet era, the enterprise’s press-service reports.

"Under the conditions of general contract on launching the licensed production of Su-30MKI aircraft and AL-31FP engines in India signed in 2000, the Indian party had a right to purchase a number of additional kits for AL-31FP engines as an option", - UMPO reminded.

The abovementioned option was exercised in October 2012. Following the agreement signed the deliveries will be continued over the next ten years and the first batch of kits will be delivered to India in the first quarter of 2013, UMPO noted.

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Re: LCA News and Discussions, 22-Oct-2013

Postby vasu raya » 01 Feb 2014 20:25

if the selling party doesn't stick to Contract provisions, maybe we should apply the Chinese medicine of reverse engineering, its an art anyways

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Re: LCA News and Discussions, 22-Oct-2013

Postby Austin » 01 Feb 2014 20:52

abhik wrote:HAL says that the engines are made completely locally from raw materials, these "raw materials" might as well be kits to be screw-drivered together. Some time back we signed a deal to import close to a thousand AL-31 engine (kits?)
UMPO starts the delivery of 920 AL-31FP engines to India
UMPO starts the delivery of 920 AL-31FP engines via Rosoboronexport to India. It is the largest contract signed with a foreign customer during post-Soviet era, the enterprise’s press-service reports.

"Under the conditions of general contract on launching the licensed production of Su-30MKI aircraft and AL-31FP engines in India signed in 2000, the Indian party had a right to purchase a number of additional kits for AL-31FP engines as an option", - UMPO reminded.

The abovementioned option was exercised in October 2012. Following the agreement signed the deliveries will be continued over the next ten years and the first batch of kits will be delivered to India in the first quarter of 2013, UMPO noted.


Even if these were true and that additional kits are to be purchased , they would still have to sign the deal for the engine even if most if not all of the raw materials are sourced in India to build the engine ... Reason being they will have to sign the lic deal for additional engines much like they purchased additional deal for 40 MKI but these are to be made at HAL.

In the end they would never build all the components in India be it for MKI or for Rafale no matter what TOT they sign ...it wont be economical to have a 100 % duplicate complex in India to make the MKI and its engine or Rafale and its engine .. the local component will rise with time but they will still have to import what is not economically feseable to be made in India.

More ever TOT deal is done just to have better support for the aircraft and spares .... the IP is still owned by OEM and we still have to pay the Lic fee ....and we cant cross use those TOT for other programs except for the one we have bought for.

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Re: LCA News and Discussions, 22-Oct-2013

Postby vasu raya » 01 Feb 2014 21:03

Here's a different deal, buyoff second hand F-16 airframes say from USAF, stick in the AL-31F, LCA's control laws and all components that let Americans not to have any control over their usage, and quickly build few squadrons, dump MMRCA

you have got the logistics of LCA and a fighter as good as an upgraded Mirage

there is a precedence of Iranian F-14 tomcats being re-engined by the Russians, we have the Israeli connection, the feasibility study can be done parallel to the MMRCA negotiations, we can expect the Yanks, Russians and Israelis to gang up against the French, at any rate it creates leverage

And we get to focus on the AMCA
Last edited by vasu raya on 01 Feb 2014 22:25, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: LCA News and Discussions, 22-Oct-2013

Postby member_20292 » 01 Feb 2014 21:06

vasu raya wrote:if the selling party doesn't stick to Contract provisions, maybe we should apply the Chinese medicine of reverse engineering, its an art anyways


Let's say you look at a steel cross section metallograph of a certain composition. You see martensite, ferrite and some other phases.

Then you mechanically test it and find that it is prettay darn awesome for your thingamajig.

Problem is, you still can't figure out , without a lot of luck and man-hours of sweat in a hot laboratory , how the hell the particular steel was created.

And Indian Metallurgy, is fabulous, *I know* for a fact, that we have some of the best metallurgists in the world, but our techniques of industry and applications are very far from the cutting edge, leading to the situation which is under discussion right now.

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Re: LCA News and Discussions, 22-Oct-2013

Postby member_20292 » 01 Feb 2014 21:08

Singha wrote:people may sometimes part with the low pressure section but the afterburner and esp the hot & high pressure section are guarded with ten layers of security.

and nobody will part with exotic materials tech whether fair or foul weather friends.


Some amount of strategic minded needs to come in now, and look at actively purchasing stakes in UAC, and other Russian companies. Also, purchasing stakes in other vendors and suppliers that we take our arms from .

BE ON THE LOOKOUT, is the first attitudinal shift that needs to take place.

Any babu reading this- kindly note!

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Re: LCA News and Discussions, 22-Oct-2013

Postby vasu raya » 01 Feb 2014 22:26

mahadevbhu wrote:Problem is, you still can't figure out , without a lot of luck and man-hours of sweat in a hot laboratory , how the hell the particular steel was created.


Agree with you

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Re: LCA News and Discussions, 22-Oct-2013

Postby Philip » 02 Feb 2014 03:44

It has been argued countless times by pro-indigenous advocates (when pointed out the actual %/cost content of firang vs indigenous products and their components) that even with developed nations,almost all manufacturers import some components.In which case what is the major grouse about the manufacture of Russian engines in India,albeit with a % of imported components? We are now manufacturing engines successfully for both the SU-30 and the MIG-29.As long as the supply chain for these components is not disturbed and according to contract,we will be considerably better off self-sufficient in building them locally using local raw material too.In time one hopes that the % of imported components also comes down. The second point is that Russia has been a country that has not imposed sanctions against us and will be able to provide support for systems in the future.The chaos of the post-Soviet days are over.I was just watching a BBC programme about the revolution in Russian auto production with global majors from the Germans to the Koreans setting up huge plants in the country,while the Lada plant ,still the largest in E.Europe,is still able to compete with western products and making a healthy profit .

However,this does not eliminate the need for a dedicated engine R&D establishment far more ambitious than the GTRE which can in the future meet any engine requirement ,aircraft or helo ,from trainers to advanced fighters.Existing engine manufacturing projects under licence can be assimilated into the entity.The Jaguar engine is another missed opportunity.Over decades,we should've attempted to design and manufacture a more powerful variant of the Adour ourselves ,surely with the years of Kaveri development,and are now dependent upon Honywell,with the upgrade nowhere in sight.The LCA is going to be captive to just one engine in the future.As said before,no harm in developing prototypes with alternatives like the EJ.

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Re: LCA News and Discussions, 22-Oct-2013

Postby maitya » 02 Feb 2014 11:39

Folks, apologies as I'm unable to participate in any meaningful exchanges due to my pre-occupation in the Kaveri saga thread (and it will remain that way for atleast a moth or two more, as I need to complete that series and give it a meaningful closure).

But know this ... we do NOT manufacture any engine - be it RD33 Series (a gen not even contemporary to Kaveri) or AL-31FP (a next gen to Kaveri - around GE F414 gen). We do some meaningful manufacturing of Adour MKII series etc ... but that's contemporary a gen below Kaveri.

To understand on technological scale where an engine can be slotted - look no further than the HPT blades (this is way too generic, I admit, and there many more finer aspects which will be bought out the Kaveri saga thread - but for the current discussion this level of generalisation will do).

HPT Blades gen decides the gen of that engine - so based on the method of manufacturing the HPT blades, following classification can be done:
Material ------------------------------- Casting tech ------------------Gen
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ni-Fe or Co Based--------------------- Polycrystalline ---------------Gen-1
Ni Based--------------------------------Polycrystalline ----------------Gen-2
Ni Based--------------------------------Directionally Solidified -------Gen-3
Ni Based--------------------------------Directionally Solidified*-------Gen-3+
Ni-Based (with 3% Re)----------------Mono-crystalline (aka SC) ---Gen-4
Ni-Based (with upto 6% Re)----------Mono-crystalline (aka SC) ----Gen-5
.... and I'll stop here.
* With better cooling (Serpentine cooling channels etc)

Gen 3+ is where Kaveri is while Gen-4 is where F414 is (atleast was, maybe they have gone to Gen-5 with the EPE series - need to check).

So, anyway if anytime you hear such bombastic claims of manufacture etc the following questions needs asking:
1) Do we manufacture in India the basic Ni-based superalloy in their ingot form or not?
2) If yes, do we have the capability to cast them DS or SC forms (aka do we know how to use investment casting process of that alloy)?
3) If yes, do we need to import the silica-based dye or do we have the capability of even designing and more importantly manufacturing them?

You will surprisingly find the answer to 2 and 3 will almost always "No" and to 1 it will be sometimes "Yes" and sometimes "No". With Adour MK-II the answer would be "Yes" to all 3, betw. :x

Problem is Kaveri is not flight qualified yet - so it is convenient (for some) to not bring it into consideration wrt tech-maturity perspective. Once that happens, suddenly M53 and RD-33 stuff etc passé and there's serious threat to AL-31FP and F414 series (not expanding it here, for understanding you need to go thru the Kaveri saga thread and analyse what technology is being talked there).
But by conveniently ignoring Kaveri (by facile adjectives like "not flight tested" etc), it helps to peddle the RD-33 and M53 import-based-screwdrivergiri-manufacturing (failure in overall Kaveri dynamics has nothing to do with, for example, the HPT blade performance, combustor efficiency etc) - but then that is too much to expect from Animal-Husbandry, Pisci-culture, medieval History etc degree-wielding assorted MoD babus etc. :cry:

Rest is all (manufacture from raw-materials - who defines what constitutes "Raw Material" betw - hey, even the wholly imported turbine blade can be called a "Raw Material"), is as the say, pure balderdash ... :roll:

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Re: LCA News and Discussions, 22-Oct-2013

Postby Karan M » 02 Feb 2014 15:05

Maitya, any definitive stuff you may have dug up on India not making the core stuff of the AL-31FP or is it deductive based on filling in the blanks and trying to see the available evidence...

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Re: LCA News and Discussions, 22-Oct-2013

Postby member_20292 » 02 Feb 2014 15:29

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 5403007663

Maitya, is this a relevant article ?

Mods, would you like me to take this to the Kaveri thread?

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Re: LCA News and Discussions, 22-Oct-2013

Postby Austin » 02 Feb 2014 16:19

Karan M wrote:Maitya, any definitive stuff you may have dug up on India not making the core stuff of the AL-31FP or is it deductive based on filling in the blanks and trying to see the available evidence...


Karan , Maitya ......I found a FORCE interview which Details most of the aspect of MKI for India .....will most in MKI dhaga

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Re: LCA News and Discussions, 22-Oct-2013

Postby vasu raya » 02 Feb 2014 22:25

Wonder if France has plans for 5th generation aircraft, wouldn't it make more sense to JV the AMCA with them than trying to buy technologies through MMRCA? given that the timelines have slipped wrt Chinese programs and 4th generation planes would be sunset in the next decade, a 4.5 gen would perhaps buy time of another 5 years.

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Re: LCA News and Discussions, 22-Oct-2013

Postby SaiK » 03 Feb 2014 00:32

not human controlled, but neuron would be a 5th gen ucav. all human controlled jets will be using their current rafale platforms. I don't think they will have the budget and drive like to match the raptors or jasoofs.

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Re: LCA News and Discussions, 22-Oct-2013

Postby srai » 03 Feb 2014 01:01

^^^

Other than VLO, all other so-called 5th Gen technological features, such as TVC, super cruise, sensor fusion, HMD and AESA radar, are (or can be) incorporated into 4.5 Gen aircrafts.

In order to catchup with "limited" resources, EU (France, UK in particular) countries are trying to by-pass 5th-Gen manned aircraft and jump straight into "6-th" Gen unmanned systems. One catch here is no one has yet defined what "6-th" Gen is ;)

With AMCA, India would jump into 5.5 Gen with features such as FBL and Electrical hydraulics on top of so-called 5th Gen technologies.

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Re: LCA News and Discussions, 22-Oct-2013

Postby NRao » 03 Feb 2014 01:19

Not the biggest of deal, however

One catch here is no one has yet defined what "6-th" Gen is


Apr, 2013 :: Boeing unveils updated F/A-XX sixth-gen fighter concept

The Boeing F/A-XX concept is a response to a USN request for information (RFI) from April 2012 soliciting data for a replacement for the service's Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet and EA-18G Growler fleets in the 2030s.


Remove the canards and it and the original Indian MCA have somethings in common!!!

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Re: LCA News and Discussions, 22-Oct-2013

Postby srai » 03 Feb 2014 01:24

^^^

I have seen that article before. It doesn't say what technologies will make up a 6th-Gen aircraft other than Boeing working on it.

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Re: LCA News and Discussions, 22-Oct-2013

Postby vasu raya » 03 Feb 2014 09:01

Few 4.5 gen choices,

1) Tejas

TVC - ?
super cruise - WIP
sensor fusion - WIP
HMD - Yes
AESA radar - WIP

pros: design changes are easy, inexpensive
cons: light fighter, American engine

2) LCA tech in F-16 airframe

TVC - using Al-31F yes
super cruise - ?
sensor fusion - As with LCA
HMD - As with LCA
AESA radar - As with LCA

pros: readymade 2nd hand airframes available, medium weight
cons: feasibility of such 'deep upgrade'

3) Rafale

TVC - ?
super cruise - Yes
sensor fusion - Yes
HMD - Yes
AESA radar - Yes

pros: medium weight, manufacturing quality?
cons: Expensive, upgrades are bloody expensive

Contribution to AMCA from any of the above paths,

TVC - 2 (provided we fully indigenize the AL-31F?)
super cruise - ?
sensor fusion - 1,3
HMD - 1,3
AESA radar - 1,3
VLO - 3 (due to improved manufacturing? or maybe FGFA can help)
FBL - zilch
Electrical hydraulics - zilch

this is just a snippet from previous posts, and as far as manufacturing goes Japan has expertise too. Any which way with MMRCA we are funding other's next gen projects, yet we want to support AMCA, FGFA and AURA locally while first world France has just NEURON due to limited resources.

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Re: LCA News and Discussions, 22-Oct-2013

Postby sattili » 03 Feb 2014 12:12

vasu raya wrote:Here's a different deal, buyoff second hand F-16 airframes say from USAF, stick in the AL-31F, LCA's control laws and all components that let Americans not to have any control over their usage, and quickly build few squadrons, dump MMRCA

you have got the logistics of LCA and a fighter as good as an upgraded Mirage

there is a precedence of Iranian F-14 tomcats being re-engined by the Russians, we have the Israeli connection, the feasibility study can be done parallel to the MMRCA negotiations, we can expect the Yanks, Russians and Israelis to gang up against the French, at any rate it creates leverage

And we get to focus on the AMCA

And how we can get F-16 airframes without uncle using all means to stop us? Why do we even need to try this Jugaad? If talks with Dassault fail then go to the next shortlist - Eurofighter, why bring Americans into the game with F-35 or F-16 Jugaad etc?

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Re: LCA News and Discussions, 22-Oct-2013

Postby symontk » 03 Feb 2014 14:21

Saw a yellow / green aircraft landing from marathahalli side at 12PM today. Should be LCA. its wings were glistening in sun's rays. But could only see the tail side. But it looked like delta wings

Anyone know some news? or was it only a hawk?

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Re: LCA News and Discussions, 22-Oct-2013

Postby SaiK » 04 Feb 2014 05:31

^should go into mmrca /amca competition thread. who knows? rafale tie up can be challenged by japanese tie up.

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Re: LCA News and Discussions, 22-Oct-2013

Postby vasu raya » 04 Feb 2014 09:12

sattili wrote:And how we can get F-16 airframes without uncle using all means to stop us? Why do we even need to try this Jugaad? If talks with Dassault fail then go to the next shortlist - Eurofighter, why bring Americans into the game with F-35 or F-16 Jugaad etc?


Uncle wanted to sell during the MMRCA competition, I don't think anything changed in their position and now IAF already has C-17, C-130 etc., so if needed we can tie the rest of the purchases to the acquisition of the F-16 airframes, he could still make money at the level of one of these side deals rather than full MMRCA cost.

In this thread, the often voiced opinion is that LCA is a light fighter and cannot fill the shoes of a MMRCA, which should be a medium fighter so an F-16 was brought in, since the LCA control laws were initially flight tested on it and with Uncle having a huge inventory of those we could quickly build squadron nos

Say we go the EF route, Britian, Italy perhaps have more interest in buying the F-35 than the French which would mean the price of EF also wouldn't be to our expectations. Only good thing would be we get another few years of continued negotiations which buys time for LCA Mk2 and the F-16 Jugaad.

However if we manage to go for EF, it actually helps US sell the F-35 to the EF consortium nations so perhaps Uncle would delay the sale of F-35 to us (as we can afford only smaller nos anyways) and forces us to go through the interim MMRCA purchase. From a technology perspective we are already in the seconds market by tendering for one generation behind tech even then TOT is hard to get.

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Re: LCA News and Discussions, 22-Oct-2013

Postby putnanja » 05 Feb 2014 10:38

Tejas set to begin high-altitude trials in Leh

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The Final Operational Clearance (FOC) campaign of Light Combat Aircraft Tejas is set to gain momentum with the high altitude trials scheduled this week in Leh. Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) Director P.S. Subramanyam told Express on Tuesday that during the Leh trials, the aircraft engine will be started at lower than -10 (minus Ten) degree Celsius. "We will also evaluate the aircraft performance at low temperature and high altitude. This time, we need to also test the performance of various sensors at the hilly terrain," Subramanyam said.
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"These trails will not exceed more than a week. We have the next phase of weapon trials in Jamnagar, scheduled in March," the ADA chief said. He said the number of test flights of Tejas dipped in January owing to the preparatory phase for the FOC campaign.
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Currently the aircraft from the Tejas flight-line are being upgraded to FOC configuration to undertake flight trials.
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"The project progress is being monitored on a daily basis now. We have completed the wings of the first series production (SP-1) aircraft and it has come out with nil deviations," Tyagi said. HAL is mandated to deliver SP-1 in the next three months.
In the FOC phase so far, the aircraft engine was switched on using a jet fuel starter three consecutive times (three times in a row), as mandated by the Indian Air Force (IAF). A rain-proof test was done on the limited series production (LSP-7) aircraft. The aircraft also was subjected to brake tests, while the integration work of the underbelly drop tank has begun at the HAL facility. HAL has also begun training of IAF technicians on the aircraft ahead of the Tejas squadron formation.
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Philip
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Re: LCA News and Discussions, 22-Oct-2013

Postby Philip » 05 Feb 2014 17:19

Is there any info reg. MIG-21s or Bisons operating/tests from Leh ? Given that the LCA is replacing the vintage MIG-21s,it would be interesting to see from which bases they will eventually operate from.

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Re: LCA News and Discussions, 22-Oct-2013

Postby rohitvats » 05 Feb 2014 20:07

^^^AFAIK, only Hunters and thereafter Mig-23BN/MF and Mig-29 have operated out of Leh. Mig-23 from 224 Squadron even operated a detachment from THOISE.

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Re: LCA News and Discussions, 22-Oct-2013

Postby Singha » 05 Feb 2014 20:15

at present I believe a single Mig29 sqdn is spread out across Leh and Thoise as permanent basing? with a second Mig29 sqdn at Avantipur(Srinagar)? or is it a single sqdn primarily based in Leh and Srinagar but sometimes rotating through Thoise also?

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Re: LCA News and Discussions, 22-Oct-2013

Postby Indranil » 05 Feb 2014 21:32


Clears 3 points:
1. Why the testing has dropped in Jan. I hope all the trials are well photographed and presented for jingo pleasure.
2. LSP-7/8 is the SP standard, hence LSP-8 is the only one flying, and LSP-7 undergoes ground trials while all others undergo changes.
3. Why we havn't seen the centerline pylon being used till now. The integration of underbelly drop tank is being completed now.

I am impatient to see the supersonic tanks (Ajai Shukla said even 1200 ltr supersonic tanks will be tested), WVR AAM, sharp pylons and tandem ejector racks. Come on team Tejas.

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Re: LCA News and Discussions, 22-Oct-2013

Postby Karan M » 06 Feb 2014 02:32

He he with delay in procurement of shri shri shri Rafale, humble dal chawal eating SDRE (and protein packed) Tejas is likely to soar higher. Something tells me the classic three way bungle between Dassault-HAL-IAF with each pointing fingers at each other & MOD sitting on top groaning yeh sab kya ho rahan hain, bodes well for more focus on getting Tejas inducted asap and in greater numbers.


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