Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

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Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Atri » 05 Jun 2014 17:00

Starting New Thread as old one is more than 100 pages.

Last Post from old thread is here -
Last Page

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby AbhiJ » 05 Jun 2014 17:48

When is Nirbhay launch?

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby shiv » 06 Jun 2014 16:18

Akash tests held up because of malfunction of British built Banshee drone
Akash Test Held up, PTA under Scanner

By Express News Service

Published: 06th June 2014 07:41 AM

Last Updated: 06th June 2014 09:52 AM
Email 2

BALASORE: Defence experts have raised doubt over the efficiency of UK-made unmanned aircraft Banshee which was to be used as a target against surface-to-air medium range missile Akash, but failed to perform twice in the last couple of days.

While on Tuesday the aerial target fell down in the sea nearly three minutes after taking off from the Integrated Test Range (ITR) at Chandipur off the Odisha coast, on Wednesday the pilot-less target aircraft (PTA) failed to take off due to technical glitches in its lifting support system.

The mission team of Akash had to postpone the missile test till June 20. Defence sources said there was technical snag in the motor of the aircraft.

Though on earlier occasions, the Lakshya target has performed below the expectations, the experts claimed that indigenously built Lakshya PTA is performing better than British-made multi-functional target aircraft Banshee even as the latter’s flight duration is more.

Lakshya is a remotely piloted high speed target drone system developed by the Aeronautical Development Establishment (ADE) of DRDO. It has two variants - Lakshya-I and Lakshya-II. The Lakshya-I is used to perform discreet aerial reconnaissance of battlefield and target acquisition.

The drone, remotely piloted by a ground control station, provides realistic towed aerial sub-targets for live fire training. This unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) is ground or ship launched from a zero length launcher and recovery is by a two stage parachute system developed by ADE for land or sea based recovery.

Defence scientists said the Lakshya drone had a crushable nose cone which absorbs the impact of landing, minimising damage. Its flight path, they said, may be controlled or pre-programmed based on the type of mission.

On the other hand, the Banshee is an aerial target for surface-to-air and air-to-air weapon systems. The aircraft is designed to float for over-water operations recovery. Its installable options include radar enhancement devices and target sleeves. It can simulate a sea-skimming missile or serve as a scouting UAV with a camera.

Moreover, Lakshya is a more sophisticated PTA powered by a turbojet while Banshee is powered by rotary engine. Lakshya is much heavier (nearly 10 times) than Banshee and flies much faster than the British drone.

Justifying the use of Banshee target during training exercises instead of Lakshya, defence scientists said the latter was cheaper than the former. Banshee is also easily retrievable as it weighs less.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby deejay » 06 Jun 2014 16:32

from previous thread, last page:

Akash is "nuclear capable" as per Indian Express

http://www.newindianexpress.com/states/ ... 262026.ece


Really? For what purpose? Or should we just accept it as standard 'IE' report with bugs?

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby vic » 06 Jun 2014 16:35

Nobody should criticize foreign maal, we should only kick around DRDO with our keyboards.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby SSridhar » 09 Jun 2014 17:38

BrahMos test fired from INS Kolkatta - PTI
India on Monday successfully test- fired the 290 km-range BrahMos supersonic anti-ship cruise missile from the country's largest indigenous warship INS Kolkata off the coast of Karwar in Karnataka.

The Mazagon Dockyards Limited-built INS Kolkata is yet to be formally inducted into the Navy and will have the capability to launch 16 BrahMos missiles in one go when it enters operational service.

The missile was test-fired from INS Kolkata, which is a new ship under Project 15-Alpha series, off the coast of Karwar on Monday morning and all the parameters were met during the test, defence officials told PTI here.

INS Kolkata is the first of its class of warships in the country and is undergoing extensive trials before its planned induction into the Navy in July, they said.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby member_28108 » 09 Jun 2014 23:24

http://www.deccanherald.com/content/412 ... rship.html
You are here: Home » National » Brahmos missile test-fired from new warship
Brahmos missile test-fired from new warship
Karwar (Karnataka), June 9, 2014, (IANS):
Indian-Russian joint venture Brahmos Aerospace Monday test-fired its 290-km range supersonic missile from the yet-to-be commissioned stealth destroyer INS Kolkata off India's west coast here in Karnataka, officials said. PTI file photo for representation only
Indian-Russian joint venture Brahmos Aerospace Monday test-fired its 290-km range supersonic missile from the yet-to-be commissioned stealth destroyer INS Kolkata off India's west coast here in Karnataka, officials said.

"Brahmos' representatives successfully conducted the installation test-firing of the cruise missile from the launcher in coordination with the Mumbai-based Mazagon Dockyard Ltd, which built the warship," a senior naval official told IANS here, about 500 km from Bangalore and 660 km from Mumbai.

Though the lead ship in its class was launched in 2006, it has been undergoing sea trials for its commissioning into Indian Navy later this year.

"The dockyard will hand over the 6,800-tonne guided missile ship to the navy over the next two-three months after completing all trials for commissioning later this year," the official said.

A naval officer, Commander Kuntal Wadhwa, was killed and many workers injured March 7 when a valve on a carbon dioxide bottle malfunctioned during a test of the vessel's fire-fighting unit at the dockyard.

"It is a standard procedure to test-fire any weapon onboard the warship to assess its capabilities and operational parameters during trials," the official noted.

The destroyer is part of the navy's ambitious Rs.15,000-crore project 15-Alpha series, in which two more warships - INS Kochi and INS Chennai - are being built at the dockyard despite cost overruns and deliveries behind schedule.

"The cruise missile has been deployed in many of our warships, including frigates and Russian-made Talwar class vessels," the official added.

Brahmos has also developed aerial and land variants of the weapon system for deployment by Indian Air Force and Indian Army.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby ramana » 10 Jun 2014 02:16

deejay wrote:from previous thread, last page:

Akash is "nuclear capable" as per Indian Express

http://www.newindianexpress.com/states/ ... 262026.ece


Really? For what purpose? Or should we just accept it as standard 'IE' report with bugs?



Not the first report. Many previous times. Check google.

Early on might have been concieved as last ditch against Fizzleya's F solahs carrying clown jewels.

Might be not valid anymore but reporters dutifully dredge it every time.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Indranil » 10 Jun 2014 03:01

I don't think Aakash was ever meant to carry a nuclear warhead. The scribes got it all wrong. Which nuclear warhead can be packed in a 60 kg payload? And why would you go kaboom on your own land?

Personally, I am waiting for the SAM version of AAD on Tata 8X8s.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Cain Marko » 10 Jun 2014 03:25

indranilroy wrote:Personally, I am waiting for the SAM version of AAD on Tata 8X8s.

+1. Would love to see such versions on a larger sized DDG.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby nikhil_p » 10 Jun 2014 11:54

AbhiJ wrote:When is Nirbhay launch?


Paanwallah says that it is in final stages of pre launch validation. There are two mijjiles being made ready. Newer updated guidance module is being ground tested. Launch expected post monsoon (though all attempts being made to get it ready pre monsoon).

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby vic » 10 Jun 2014 11:58

Akash with active seeker from Astra can easily have range of 100km+ but it was killed for imported LRSAM. Read about range enhancement of British Ramjet Sea Dart missile with active seeker.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby SSridhar » 16 Jun 2014 07:33

Canister-based trial of Agni-V after monsoon - Y.Mallikarjun, The Hindu
The first canister-based trial of the 5,000 km-plus, nuclear weapons-capable Inter-Continental Ballistic Missile, Agni-V, “in final induction configuration” is to be conducted after the monsoon season from Wheeler Island, off the Odisha coast.

As a prelude to the actual firing, Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) technologists successfully carried out the final ‘Missile Ejection Test’ from a canister in simulated conditions on Saturday, according to Scientific Adviser to the Defence Minister and DRDO Chief, Avinash Chander.

The test validated all the parameters that would have to be met during the actual launch. The final test was completed, he said, and added that the launch from the canister would now be carried out from Wheeler Island after monsoon.

During the actual launch, the first stage of Agni-V would be ignited at a height of 25-30 metres after its ejection from the canister, DRDO sources said. The solid propellant-based gas generator at the bottom of the canister would provide a force equivalent to 300-370 tonnes to push Agni-V to a height of 30 metres when the first of the three stages gets ignited.

Ensuring mid-air ignition of the first stage would eliminate the need to use jet deflectors when the flames erupt as the missile takes off. Also, canister launch would provide operational flexibility to the user to fire the missile from anywhere and makes the transportation of the weapon system much easier and safer. “It is better to carry the missile in a canister than in an open vehicle,” say the sources.


The original date was end of Dec. 2012 which got postponed to June 2013 and now it is the last quarter of 2014. After this must come MIRV whose deadline originally was end of 2015.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby John » 16 Jun 2014 08:41

Vic, we discussed this earlier back max range of Akash is only 30 km since motor burn time is no more than 20 sec. If the range was any greater the Russians would have never dropped the ramjet for Buk SAM.

Liquid fueled Ramjet for sea dart is superior to what is used for Akash and precursor to what is used by Brahmos.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby SSridhar » 18 Jun 2014 18:16

Business Line says Akash missile was test-fired against a low-altitude target, but the URL does not open.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby sum » 18 Jun 2014 18:32

^^ Video available on Tarmak007

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby member_28108 » 18 Jun 2014 19:02

deleted

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Ankit Desai » 18 Jun 2014 19:17

SSridhar wrote:Business Line says Akash missile was test-fired against a low-altitude target, but the URL does not open.



Akash missile test fired at low altitude

The trial flight was the last among the validation trials being carried out by the Army, on the first-off production models of the Akash supersonic missile.


The supersonic missile intercepted a very small unmanned, fast moving Banshee aerial vehicle at 30 m altitude above sea level, proving the system capability against subsonic cruise missile. The sophisticated multi function radar, with built in features, tracked the low flying target continuously throughout its course.


-Ankit

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby partha » 18 Jun 2014 19:37


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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Bhaskar_T » 18 Jun 2014 22:24

At such an important test-launch, why cow-mata have not been asked to leave the premises, especially being few meters from the launch? :roll: She could have given her blessings from far distance.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Austin » 18 Jun 2014 22:50

30 m is good and Akash is quite fast in air post booster separation , Good Job DRDO.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Picklu » 18 Jun 2014 23:40

Don't remember seeing this video before, looks like a merge of quite a few other videos. The mobility test shots for the entire system is there, absolutely a keeper. The launcher can simultaneously slew in elevation and azimuth even when the vehicle is manoeuvring :eek:

The AF launcher version might be a tad bit longer for the Himalayan roads though.


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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Indranil » 19 Jun 2014 00:08

Somehow I never liked the trailer version for the IAF. But I love it on the Tatra 8X8. Time for DRDO to base all future developments on the Tata/Ashok Leyland 8X8s.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Picklu » 19 Jun 2014 02:45

^^ As far as I know, there are only two versions - AAFL which is the trailer one and AASL which is the tracked version. Where is it on Tatra 8X8, isn't that the same as the trailer one?

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby srai » 19 Jun 2014 03:24

Picklu wrote:^^ As far as I know, there are only two versions - AAFL which is the trailer one and AASL which is the tracked version. Where is it on Tatra 8X8, isn't that the same as the trailer one?


Tatra 8x8 AAL a relatively new development for the IA:

Image

Check out around 20 sec:

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Karan M » 19 Jun 2014 04:10

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/a ... 126891.ece

Guys this is *big* news. Basically, DRDO/LRDE have worked out the multipath reflection issue which was what scuppered Trishul-Naval version as well. It was the last "holdout" of the Trishul program, in that while the IA/IAF version were deemed ok, the Naval one kept running into this issue & was ultimately dropped in favor of Barak-1
Expect the learnings to be leveraged for the SRSAM & other programs.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Manish_Sharma » 19 Jun 2014 04:55

^^ Karan is there any chance of restart 'Trishul' programme again?

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Karan M » 19 Jun 2014 12:08

Doubt it sir.. SRSAM all the way.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby srai » 19 Jun 2014 12:23

partha wrote:


Great video! This is the first video I have seen that shows complete Akash interception from launch to target destruction all caught in one continuos action.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Aditya_V » 19 Jun 2014 13:31

Bhaskar_T wrote:At such an important test-launch, why cow-mata have not been asked to leave the premises, especially being few meters from the launch? :roll: She could have given her blessings from far distance.


To keep conditions realistic as possible, wouldn't there be tray cows during wartime :cry: :-? :-?

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby SSridhar » 19 Jun 2014 13:41

partha wrote:Video link

Allah-o-Akbar.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby sum » 19 Jun 2014 13:45

Bhaskar_T wrote:At such an important test-launch, why cow-mata have not been asked to leave the premises, especially being few meters from the launch? :roll: She could have given her blessings from far distance.

Poor calf seems to have got the scare of its life.

True meaning of real life simulation here! Only few aam abduls nonchalant roaming around near the launcher were missing :D

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby member_20453 » 19 Jun 2014 13:51

wicked Video :)

Made my day, I think with proper employment, Babur can be knocked out of the air with this, however, I wonder what the terminal altitude for Babur is and if Akash can go below 30m to let's say 10m. I think an experimental test at 10m should be done.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Karan M » 19 Jun 2014 14:20

Think of typical mission profiles and then see if 10m even makes sense.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Picklu » 19 Jun 2014 15:20

srai wrote:
Picklu wrote:^^ As far as I know, there are only two versions - AAFL which is the trailer one and AASL which is the tracked version. Where is it on Tatra 8X8, isn't that the same as the trailer one?


Tatra 8x8 AAL a relatively new development for the IA:
..
Check out around 20 sec:
..


Thanks srai.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby member_20453 » 19 Jun 2014 16:47

Karan M wrote:Think of typical mission profiles and then see if 10m even makes sense.


Not sure if Babur has such a slow level flight, I am sure in moutainous areas, 30m is good enough but at sea level perhaps 10m is possible, even if not Babur but certainly some of the new chinese missiles

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Karan M » 19 Jun 2014 17:40

10mtr @ even subsonic speeds is liable to result in loss of missile/airframe. Highly experienced crew train at 200-300 ft (60-90 mtrs) peacetime & move to 30 mtrs etc at wartime - even that is considered too risky, ergo TFR.

Rafale switches to TFR @ 100 feet.
http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/thund ... ter-250710

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby vic » 19 Jun 2014 22:35

Please use common sense, if Akash can fly at 30m then 60kg warhead will cover anything between 0-30m if at all required.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby srai » 20 Jun 2014 04:17


Sumeet
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Sumeet » 20 Jun 2014 10:57

Akash's progress is good news. I sincerely hope that because of LR SAM etc.. we don't end up cancelling further progress of this.

We should develop it further to so that our LR/MR SAM eventually ends up using Akash instead of Barak-8. It could be offered to Israelis as well when its mature enough. Also, parallely slowly indiginize long range Search & Track Radar, FCR, ELINT/ESM, Passive systems slowly by building next generation of these systems as we develop Akash further.


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