Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 08 Nov 2014 09:23

Singha wrote:Airbase does not need large warheads but many small accurate ones due to huge area

Other option is b2 dropping off 80 jdams. That will work too.

But it will also need a recce sortie later to assess damage to see if a repeat raid is needed. Then recce sorties every day to see the state of repair and repeat raids. In the meantime planes will get shot down. So attrition.

negi · Post by **negi** » 08 Nov 2014 09:39

Well if the airstrip is say 3-5 km long (like the one for big airbases in Arakkonam or even Hansa) one will need to bomb it in more than one area to make sure it is out of operation as smaller jets which can manage within 1-1.5km of strip . Only the Bears , P8 and Ilyushins need longer tarmac .

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 08 Nov 2014 10:09

Singha wrote:Airbase does not need large warheads but many small accurate ones due to huge area

Other option is b2 dropping off 80 jdams. That will work too.

GD you have to kill them dead. Not patty cake them with runway busters.
Get the hanger so there are no planes to take off.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 08 Nov 2014 11:42

Bheeshma wrote:http://bharat-rakshak.com/NEWS/newsrf.php?newsid=21404
TSS report says that A-4 has been inducted? I thought it would be inducted after canisterization? What gives?

The third flight test was in Jan this year. Even at that time, the SFC was involved in "launch & preparation". Normally, only after three successful flight tests SFC gets involved. After the successful Jan test, Dr. Chander said that the missile was handed over to them and serial production would start. There is some urgency here, perhaps.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 08 Nov 2014 15:20

Hemant Rout ‏@Hemant_Rout 41m41 minutes ago

Indian #army likely to conduct a user trial of Agni-II missile from a #defence base off #Odisha coast Sunday. @NewIndianXpress @PrabhuChawla

member_23370 · Post by **member_23370** » 08 Nov 2014 20:10

Thanks Sridhar. Looks like then SFC may also be involved in the canisterized A-5 test (Third). Once successful hopefully should be inducted starting 2015.

member_28108 · Post by **member_28108** » 08 Nov 2014 20:25

it looks they are now using simultaneous testing and induction training to shorten development and acquisition times.

nash · Post by **nash** » 09 Nov 2014 10:45

Agni-II ballistic missile succesfully test-fired

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/a ... elatedNews

morem · Post by **morem** » 09 Nov 2014 10:58

This is becoming as regular as PSLV launches. One hopes to see a day when this is not even mentioned in news , it becomes so routine.

member_23370 · Post by **member_23370** » 09 Nov 2014 11:06

Yup all the agni series and K series should become routine.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 09 Nov 2014 18:49

nash wrote:Agni-II ballistic missile succesfully test-fired
http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/a ... elatedNews

From that report,

After a reaching an altitude about 600 km, the missile climbed down . . .

It means the range was close to 3000 Kms.

nash · Post by **nash** » 09 Nov 2014 19:14

SSridhar wrote:
nash wrote:Agni-II ballistic missile succesfully test-fired
http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/a ... elatedNews
From that report,
After a reaching an altitude about 600 km, the missile climbed down . . .
It means the range was close to 3000 Kms.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 086002.cms

The missile weighs 17 tonnes and its range can be increased to 3,000 km by reducing the payload. It can be fired from both rail and road mobile launchers. It takes only 15 minutes for the missile to be readied for firing.

may be, they have tested for 3K range.

member_28108 · Post by **member_28108** » 09 Nov 2014 20:59

If the release velocity as claimed is 3900 m/sec and best angle for a parabolic trajectory is 45 Deg and height is 600 Km How are you getting 3K range ?

I am getting 1550 Kms for a height of 678 Kms.

negi · Post by **negi** » 09 Nov 2014 22:05

Do we know if the missile was coasting or still under powered phase at ~600km altitude ?

member_28108 · Post by **member_28108** » 10 Nov 2014 07:01

pandyan wrote:why 45degrees saar? why not 22 degrees?

The maximum range of a parabolic trajectory is at 45 Deg.

Look up

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Projectile_motion

This is a standard problem in 11th standard Newtonian mechanics.

Though the assumption is that ballistic missiles are following a parabolic trajectory (truly ballistic and powered in the boost phase) and are not fractional orbital systems and we are not taking the second stage increase in velocity.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 10 Nov 2014 07:17

nash wrote:Agni-II ballistic missile succesfully test-fired

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/a ... elatedNews

Hits impact point in the Bay of Bengal with ‘two-digit accuracy’

India test-fired the nuclear weapon-capable Agni-II ballistic missile for its full strike range of 2,000 km from Wheeler Island off the Odisha Coast around 9.40 a.m. on Sunday. Personnel of the Strategic Forces Command (SFC) fired the surface-to-surface missile from a mobile launcher. The 20-metre-tall Agni-II zoomed to an altitude of 600 km and began its descent before splashing near its pre-designated impact point in the Bay of Bengal with “two-digit accuracy.”

A battery of sophisticated radars, electro-optical systems and telemetry stations along the east coast tracked the trajectory and monitored various parameters of the missile from the launch till the terminal phase during the 14-minute flight.{840secs. Booster flight(F/S and S/S) is most likely ~ 120 secs....} Two downrange ships recorded the final event as the dummy warhead detonated.

{So included fuze functioning. If the Rv had above picture geometry one can estimate the height of burst.

The exercise was carried out as regular user training under the supervision of missile scientists from the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO), which designed and developed the weapon system. The two-stage missile has been inducted for military use and can carry a one-tonne payload.

V.G. Sekaran, Director-General, DRDO (Missiles and Strategic Systems); M.V.K.V. Prasad, Director of Integrated Test Range; Lakshminarayana, Project Director; senior DRDO scientists; and Army officials were present.

Talking to The Hindu later, a top DRDO official lauded the SFC team for displaying clockwork precision. “This gives lot of confidence in a combat kind of situation,” he said.

Terming Agni-II a workhorse, the official said the overall mission objectives were met precisely. The navigation, guidance and control aspects of this class of missile were proven once again.

“It is an achievement by itself. Demonstrating it repeatedly gives a lot of confidence,” he said.

So two digit means from 10m to 99m. IOW about 33 feet accuracy.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 10 Nov 2014 07:19

Kanson garu, How many times as AII tested by SFC?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 10 Nov 2014 07:27

with ABM system proliferating, sacrificing some range with a depressed ballistic shot might become the norm to gain a few mins of quiet time before ABM radars light up.

ofcourse nothing can help with geostationary sats looking for heat plumes from above, as the P2 have.....the flames are just too hot to mask.......that screenshot of a russian system which Austin I think posted covered the entire indian landmass, some part of ASEAN and bay of bengal on one screen itself. it is ofcourse merely a early warning system and ABM radars would still have to track and scan to guide missiles out. having all 3 composite stages and higher energy fuel for faster transit speed and final dropdown speed is good to have.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 10 Nov 2014 08:13

Also for ballistic missile flights the path is an ellipse with one of the foci at the centre of the earth. Parabola won't give the theoretical flight path.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 10 Nov 2014 08:46

prasannasimha wrote:
pandyan wrote:why 45degrees saar? why not 22 degrees?
The maximum range of a parabolic trajectory is at 45 Deg.

Look up

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Projectile_motion

This is a standard problem in 11th standard Newtonian mechanics.

Though the assumption is that ballistic missiles are following a parabolic trajectory (truly ballistic and powered in the boost phase) and are not fractional orbital systems and we are not taking the second stage increase in velocity.

Central to that calculation are 3 things:
1. The initial velocity (u) is provided instantaneously,
2. The projectile thereafter is accelerated only by gravity, and
4. The value of this acceleration 'g' can be considered as constant throughout the flight.

Under these considerations the range is (u^2/g)sin(2*theta). If u and g are constant, then sin(2*theta) is maximized at theta=45 degrees.

member_28108 · Post by **member_28108** » 10 Nov 2014 12:47

ramana wrote:Also for ballistic missile flights the path is an ellipse with one of the foci at the centre of the earth. Parabola won't give the theoretical flight path.

Can you give me some references for that? . I would like to read about that since most references wrt ballistic missiles quote a parabolic trajectory.

Roperia · Post by **Roperia** » 10 Nov 2014 13:02

@DDNewsLive: Indo-#Israel joint project LR-SAM long range surface-air missile tested successfully in Israel;joint project of IAI Israel, Indian Navy,DRDO

https://twitter.com/ddnewslive/status/5 ... 0760275968

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 10 Nov 2014 13:07

awesome news!

vina · Post by **vina** » 10 Nov 2014 13:27

prasannasimha wrote: Though the assumption is that ballistic missiles are following a parabolic trajectory (truly ballistic and powered in the boost phase) and are not fractional orbital systems and we are not taking the second stage increase in velocity.

Well, some vague memories about the engg. mech of that thing, sort of like RedMulls rambling thoughts collected through a haze of smoke from "herbs". Something to do with injection angle wrt to the earth's plane, zero,+, and minus.. each of which gives a different conic section (parabola, ellipse, hyperbola), so you can't just assume a parabolic path and find the angle for max range of parabola, ignoring the other possible ones. Point is, the raakkeet climbs out to the edge of space, has sub orbital velocity reached and then injects the warhead at the required angle to hit target. Nothing is random. Random things are left to Paki Rackeet Mards flying after a Kaboom due to vacuum bulb eggsploshun.

shaun · Post by **shaun** » 10 Nov 2014 16:22

that's a great news , Barak-8 tested successfully !! or was it tested before and now we are getting the news
http://www.asiandefencenews.com/2014/10 ... ssile.html

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/ ... DuPl_mSwg0

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 10 Nov 2014 16:26

Shaun wrote:that's a great news , Barak-8 tested successfully !! or was it tested before and now we are getting the news
http://www.asiandefencenews.com/2014/10 ... ssile.html Dated : October 13, 2014

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/ ... DuPl_mSwg0

alexis · Post by **alexis** » 10 Nov 2014 16:31

^^
prasannasimha, google and wiki will give you good explanations why ICBMs follow an elliptical path.
Israeli Jericho III with 30 ton is rumoured to reach 10,000 km. If that is true, it is a fantastic achievement.

shaun · Post by **shaun** » 10 Nov 2014 16:32

^^^^^
DD news displaying it now

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 10 Nov 2014 16:36

i dunno why they are saying this is first test then , LR-SAM is barack 8??

We seem to call it LR-SAM , so this was not first test of it

shaun · Post by **shaun** » 10 Nov 2014 16:43

they haven't mentioned that it is 1st test , merrily said , it was tested successfully . Until and unless some definite reporting comes from indian press we can only speculate.

Sanjay · Post by **Sanjay** » 10 Nov 2014 17:01

Were there any pics or vids of yesterday's A-2 launch ? Curious to see the number on the A-2.

abhik · Post by **abhik** » 10 Nov 2014 17:37

^^^
If the pics/vids haven't been released then its quite possible it was a K-series missile test.

Vishnu · Post by **Vishnu** » 10 Nov 2014 17:43

PRESS INFORMATION BUREAU (DEFENCE WING)
GOVERNMENT OF INDIA
*********
SUCCESSFUL FLIGHT TESTING OF LR SAM MISSILE
New Delhi: Kartika 19, 1936
Monday, November 10, 2014

The Long Range Surface to Air Missile (LRSAM) is successfully flight tested against a flying target in a range in Israel, today. Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI), Israel has carried out the test in the presence of DRDO scientists and officials of the Indian Armed Forces. The LRSAM system is jointly developed by DRDO and IAI Israel.

All the systems including the radar, communication launch systems and the missile system have performed as expected and hit the target directly and damaged. The system is developed for both Israel Defence Forces and Indian Armed Forces.

Scientific Advisor to Defence Minister Dr. Avinash Chander has witnessed the test along with President of IAI Mr. Joseph Weiss and other top officials of Israel Defence Forces. He termed the event as a milestone in the cooperation between two countries in developing advanced weapon systems.

shaun · Post by **shaun** » 10 Nov 2014 17:54

Any news, when will it be tested from INS Kolkata and tentative induction time .

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 10 Nov 2014 17:59

Another 3 to 4 years is a mango man guess.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 10 Nov 2014 22:18

Saurav Jha @SJha1618 · 1h 1 hour ago

LRSAM has been tested several times. This test standsout because it met all parameters.

Note, per PIB "officials of the Indian Armed Forces" witnessed the test. That would suggest that the system is ~~very near~~ in its final configuration and was being demoed to its users.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 10 Nov 2014 22:23

via SJha
http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/WATCH- ... tem-381342
WATCH: IAI carries out successful trial of Barak 8 air and missile defense system {Launch video inside}

"The current test validated all components of the weapon system to the satisfaction of the customer representatives. Israeli specialists and Indian scientists, including IMOD's and DRDO's representatives participated in the test, along with both countries' armed forces officers," IAI said in a statement.

...
Joseph Weiss, IAI's President and CEO, who was present at the testing-site, said:" The system's impressive, advanced capabilities proven today in this complex test, are another testimony of IAI's resilience, advanced and groundbreaking capabilities. Barak-8 Air & Missile Defense System is a major growth engine for the company." Boaz Levi, IAI's Executive Vice President and General Manager of Systems, Missiles & Space Group said it was the first trial involving a full operational scenario.

After being detected by the System's radar, the weapon system calculated the optimal interception point, launched the Barak-8 missile into its operational trajectory that acquired the target, and successfully intercepted it. All the weapon system's components met the test's goals successfully, he said.

"The radar tracked the target, and at the right moment, the system went into action. It built up an operational scenario, and the mission missile was fired at the right time. It received updates throughout its trajectory. It then opened its eye, and acquired the target through an independent sensor, destroying it completely," Levi added.

"We are moving towards systematic production of the Barak-8," Levi said.

In addition to prime contractor, IAI, the Barak-8 project involves ELTA Systems Ltd.- an IAI subsidiary which produces the defense system's radars, and Rafael Advanced Defense Systems, which manufactures the interceptor missile.

Barak-8 employs a state-of-the-art phased array multi-mission radar, two-way data link, and flexible command and control system, according to IAI.

The system has been under development for several years, and Monday's trial is the latest in a series of tests.

shaun · Post by **shaun** » 10 Nov 2014 22:55

more news coming

http://www.defensenews.com/article/2014 ... /311100020

are Israelis marketing Barak-8 as C-DOME ???

member_23370 · Post by **member_23370** » 11 Nov 2014 00:09

http://bharat-rakshak.com/NEWS/newsrf.php?newsid=21410

Indian express claims 75-100 Km range. Note sure about it though.

member_28722 · Post by **member_28722** » 11 Nov 2014 01:04

How come speed is only Mach 2 for an interceptor?
ESSM is Mach 4+