Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 16 Dec 2014 20:44

Thakur its under series production with a DRDO SME partner in Hyderabad. The numbers produced are most likely prioritized for strat programs.

srai · Post by **srai** » 17 Dec 2014 07:44

Thakur_B wrote:
srai wrote:...

It would be good if Pinaka Mk III (120km version) could also make use of the same launch vehicles and other infrastructures. Instead of six missiles per launch box, maybe only one/two/three "fatter" missiles would be carried.
How do you plan to fit fatter missiles in the same tube The 120 Km rocket is supposed to be 2.8 meters longer (7.2 meters).
All the known parameters about this long range Pinaka rocket scream Prahaar missile.

I think you misunderstood what I was saying. I was talking about "launch box" (or pod) not individual tubes in the pod.

This is what I was thinking: M270 - US MLRS (Multiple Launch Rocket System) - two pods, each can carry either one ATACMS (range up to 300km) or six 227mm rockets (range up to 70 km).

Neela · Post by **Neela** » 17 Dec 2014 14:58

Saurav Jha tweet
Indigenous turbofan for Nirbhay has made remarkable progress. Program is a success.

Thakur_B · Post by **Thakur_B** » 17 Dec 2014 18:37

srai wrote:
I think you misunderstood what I was saying. I was talking about "launch box" (or pod) not individual tubes in the pod.

Now I get what you are talking about, yeah that would be great, except it turns it from an MBRL to a theater missile launcher. We need our own Smerch, better still if it shares commonality with Smerch.

Neela · Post by **Neela** » 17 Dec 2014 18:46

Thakur_B wrote:
Saurav Jha
‏@SJha1618
RCI is working on RLG-INS for ground systems also.
3:44 am - 16 Dec 2014

Where are these used? Why do you need them at all for ground systems?

Thakur_B · Post by **Thakur_B** » 17 Dec 2014 19:09

Neela wrote:
Saurav Jha
‏@SJha1618
RCI is working on RLG-INS for ground systems also.
3:44 am - 16 Dec 2014

Where are these used? Why do you need them at all for ground systems?

Artillery needs them to give high precision positioning data with/without GPS signals.

Thakur_B · Post by **Thakur_B** » 18 Dec 2014 18:28

Is Namica a dead program now ? The last publicised major testing was done in the summer of 2012. That's two and half years now. The missile has progressed leaps and bounds since then, with a completely redesigned motor and seeker.

srai · Post by **srai** » 19 Dec 2014 04:14

Thakur_B wrote:...
The 120 Km version Pinaka with a larger rocket has been in planning stage as long back as 2005. It will require a new launcher and everything else. The current Pinaka Mk II rocket fits in the existing launcher and loader. It has a wire strip GPS antenna and IMI's trajectory correction system in its nose.
...

Thakur_B wrote:
srai wrote:
I think you misunderstood what I was saying. I was talking about "launch box" (or pod) not individual tubes in the pod.
Now I get what you are talking about, yeah that would be great, except it turns it from an MBRL to a theater missile launcher. We need our own Smerch, better still if it shares commonality with Smerch.

Coming back to the original point, there are definite benefits in leveraging existing infrastructure/platforms as much as possible rather than coming up with a Mk.III design that needs completely new set of infrastructure/platforms. As with the MRLS system, a new 120km rocket could be made to fit the dimensions of existing Mk.I/II launch pod in fewer numbers (say 2 or 3 per pod).

If it is a completely new system, then let's not call it Pinaka.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 19 Dec 2014 05:30

imo the best type of vehicle for Nag, would be Helina mounted in a Tor style vehicle with 16 VL tubes reloadable in packs of 4 by human power or crane and fired off in LOAL mode with initial heading and trajectory shape programmed before firing by the gunners target designation computer.

hence using a telescoping optronic sight & ground surveillance radar it can fire safely from behind cover as well.

a little unit of 4 such launch vehicles would be able to quickly unleash 64 LOAL IIR F&F missiles onto the battle or destroy an entire strongpoint piece by piece with lots of rounds buffer.

imagine this with a smaller missile : http://www.military-today.com/missiles/tor.jpg

shaun · Post by **shaun** » 19 Dec 2014 05:54

Thakur_B wrote:Is Namica a dead program now ? The last publicised major testing was done in the summer of 2012. That's two and half years now. The missile has progressed leaps and bounds since then, with a completely redesigned motor and seeker.

I think with the improvement of missile's range , work on mast mounted target acquisition suites and launch pod for the missile is still going on.

We had this

and this

and now this

dinesha · Post by **dinesha** » 19 Dec 2014 13:37

Saurav Jha ‏@SJha1618 1h1 hour ago New Delhi, Delhi
Good news: The Army has asked for a few very doable modifications on the Prahaar. They are going forward with it.

Gyan · Post by **Gyan** » 19 Dec 2014 13:59

How many trials and "doable" changes did Army ask for Smerch deal of around Rs. 3,000 crores. Army has asked for doable changes to:-

1. Arjun
2. Nag
3. Air Defence Gun
4. Indigenous 120mm Mortar etc

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 19 Dec 2014 16:15

Shaun wrote:

Sarath ? Where and when it was demonstrated ?

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 19 Dec 2014 16:37

That looks like a return to the old configuration.

member_28911 · Post by **member_28911** » 19 Dec 2014 17:42

https://twitter.com/SJha1618

Thakur_B · Post by **Thakur_B** » 19 Dec 2014 17:43

^^ It has a terminal seeker as well.
~~RCI ? The glide bomb was being made by ARDE if I remember correctly.~~

Nevermind.
Also in testing for a while LGB-NG (aka desi JDAM)
In development, desi bunker busters.

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 19 Dec 2014 17:49

DRDO tests 1000 kg glide bomb capable of hitting targets 100 KM away

The bomb was dropped by an Indian Air force aircraft, The bomb, guided by its ‘on board navigation system’ glided for nearly 100 km before hitting the target with great precision.

Thakur_B · Post by **Thakur_B** » 19 Dec 2014 17:51

Chacko, does the flying fat bomb have a name ?

Thakur_B · Post by **Thakur_B** » 19 Dec 2014 17:54

Shaun wrote:
Thakur_B wrote:Is Namica a dead program now ? The last publicised major testing was done in the summer of 2012. That's two and half years now. The missile has progressed leaps and bounds since then, with a completely redesigned motor and seeker.
I think with the improvement of missile's range , work on mast mounted target acquisition suites and launch pod for the missile is still going on.

We had this

and this
and now this

You've got the order backwards. The last images are ancient ones, the one on top is the latest. (use google image search)

Thakur_B · Post by **Thakur_B** » 19 Dec 2014 17:59

srai wrote:
Thakur_B wrote:...
The 120 Km version Pinaka with a larger rocket has been in planning stage as long back as 2005. It will require a new launcher and everything else. The current Pinaka Mk II rocket fits in the existing launcher and loader. It has a wire strip GPS antenna and IMI's trajectory correction system in its nose.
...

Thakur_B wrote:
Now I get what you are talking about, yeah that would be great, except it turns it from an MBRL to a theater missile launcher. We need our own Smerch, better still if it shares commonality with Smerch.
Coming back to the original point, there are definite benefits in leveraging existing infrastructure/platforms as much as possible rather than coming up with a Mk.III design that needs completely new set of infrastructure/platforms. As with the MRLS system, a new 120km rocket could be made to fit the dimensions of existing Mk.I/II launch pod in fewer numbers (say 2 or 3 per pod).

If it is a completely new system, then let's not call it Pinaka.

Fitting two missiles per launcher defeats the purpose of MBRL, IMHO. MBRL should have multiple rockets for that shock effect, sanitising the whole AO at one go. Besides they can always give it another name.

Gyan · Post by **Gyan** » 19 Dec 2014 18:07

Thakur_B wrote:^^ It has a terminal seeker as well.
~~RCI ? The glide bomb was being made by ARDE if I remember correctly.~~

Nevermind.
Also in testing for a while LGB-NG (aka desi JDAM)
In development, desi bunker busters.

Seeker? Which one?

Thakur_B · Post by **Thakur_B** » 19 Dec 2014 18:54

Gyan wrote:
Thakur_B wrote:^^ It has a terminal seeker as well.
~~RCI ? The glide bomb was being made by ARDE if I remember correctly.~~

Nevermind.
Also in testing for a while LGB-NG (aka desi JDAM)
In development, desi bunker busters.
Seeker? Which one?

No idea. Saurav Jha says so.
https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/545922120946298882

member_28911 · Post by **member_28911** » 19 Dec 2014 19:01

"Saurav Jha: BTW you guys will be surprised to know the variety of the terminal seeker being used by RCI's glide bomb."

Thakur_B · Post by **Thakur_B** » 19 Dec 2014 19:06

Ankar wrote:"Saurav Jha: BTW you guys will be surprised to know the variety of the terminal seeker being used by RCI's glide bomb."

Let's see, the miniature seekers we have that can fit in the nose of a bomb.
mm wave developed for Nag/MLPGM/NGARM
IIR developed for Nag/MLPGM
Laser developed for CLGM/Sudarshan/LGB-NG

Jingo wet dream mode on/
all three in a tri mode seeker

/Jingo wet dream mode off

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 19 Dec 2014 19:11

Holy cow and its unpowered/ has to be a long body with big folding wings to fly that long and have some rocket power.

Eg max range of the aasm is 55km and it has rocket.
Sdb types seem to be 40km.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 19 Dec 2014 19:13

Ok its feasible.the jsow agm154 claims 130km just gliding.hope its stealth airframe like jsow.
Aasm has non stealth body so uses rocket to speed up transit time.

Thakur_B · Post by **Thakur_B** » 19 Dec 2014 19:20

Singha wrote:
Eg max range of the aasm is 55km and it has rocket.
Sdb types seem to be 40km.

Desi LGB-NG is 50 Km.

That nose on LGB-NG too looks capable of fitting hazaar types of seekers

member_28911 · Post by **member_28911** » 19 Dec 2014 19:22

From Indian Defence Forum: NOTAM for flight test of experimental vehicle

~109Km

Incidentally there was also a NOTAM for Dec 15-19 of Air-to-Air missile test on Gujarat coast. Any news?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 19 Dec 2014 19:23

A cheap turbojet engine glued to jsow is being tested to extend range from 130 to 550km for jsow Er .
We could use this idea later for cheaper complement to nirbhay.

Thakur_B · Post by **Thakur_B** » 19 Dec 2014 19:28

Singha wrote:Ok its feasible.the jsow agm154 claims 130km just gliding.hope its stealth airframe like jsow.

I have a feeling it might be. We don't make any HSLD bombs in 1000 Kg category. No 1000 Kg HSLD bomb, no aftermarket bolt on wing kit

vasu raya · Post by **vasu raya** » 19 Dec 2014 19:46

For sanitizing PoK, one without a booster should be good enough if launched from aircraft, for choppers one may need a booster

for a Pinaka rocket can they mount a glide bomb now in place of its warhead, folding wings and all?

Sagar G · Post by **Sagar G** » 19 Dec 2014 21:24

Is it 1000 Kg or 1000 lb.??? If it's the former then which aircraft carried the test vehicle ???

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 19 Dec 2014 21:33

NDTV has a article with stock photo and MKI and says 1 ton which would make it around 2400lb.
says no pic of the weapon release so far. M2k , jag, mig29 and mirage2k all should be able to carry 1-3.

this is the desi JSOW...the stuff of many a wet dream we had in the past.

http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/india ... eststories

India today tested a one ton indigenously-developed glide bomb which successfully hit a target 100 kms away.

The precision-guided bomb, tested in the Bay of Bengal off the coast of Odisha, was dropped by an Indian Air Force aircraft.

The bomb, guided by its on board navigation system, glided for nearly 100 km before hitting the target with "great precision," said the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO), which constructed it.

Several radars tracked the flight of the bomb which was developed by multiple centres linked to DRDO.

According to Dr G Satheesh Reddy, the Director of the DRDO's Research Centre Imarat Laboratory which was the nodal agency in developing the glide bomb, "India has now become self-reliant in the area of guided precision bombs."

Unlike missiles, glide bombs have no onboard motor and are therefore far cheaper to build and maintain than missiles. Glide bombs rely on small control surfaces which direct the weapon towards a target as it progressively loses altitude after being released from an aircraft. The key to a precision guided bomb is its seeker which can lock onto a target based on pre-programmed targeting data. The seeker itself can be optical, infrared or a combination of the two and telemetry for the bomb can also be provided from overhead satellites.

With a range of 100 kms, the Indian-built glide bomb can be fired on ground targets which are beyond the range of most surface-to-air missile systems in use in Pakistan and China. In other words, the pilot of the fighter dropping the bomb can drop the weapon and escape before entering the range of the radars of enemy surface-to-air missiles which can shoot it down.

No images of the DRDO-developed glide bomb have been released so far.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 19 Dec 2014 21:36

http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/avina ... tv_related

India's premier defence and research organisation DRDO's chief Dr Avinash Chander will retire on November 30 but will continue to occupy the position on a contractual basis till May, 2016.

"The President is pleased to retire Dr Avinash Chander, Secretary, Department of Defence Research & Development (DOB: 06.11.1950), in the Ministry of Defence from Government Service with effect from 30.11.2014 (AN) on attaining the age of superannuation," an official statement in New Delhi said on Friday.

It said "the appointment of Dr Chander beyond his date of retirement, November 30, for 18 months would be on contract basis, with the same terms and conditions as he would be entitled to as Secretary (DRD) before the date of retirement."

Asked if this was the first time a DRDO chief will go on contract, sources said there had been instances when chiefs have been given "extraordinary" extensions.

The DRDO chief also holds the post of Scientific Adviser to the Defence Minister and the Secretary of Department of Defence Research and Development.

Dr Chander joined DRDO in 1972 after completing graduation in Electrical Engineering from Indian Institute of Technology (IIT), Delhi.

He obtained MS in Spatial Information Technology from Jawharlal Nehru Technological University (JNTU), Hyderabad.

Dr Chander is the chief architect of the 'Agni' series of ballistic missile systems.

Development of the Agni range of missiles under a highly- restrictive international control regimes was possible only out of his technology forecast, perspective planning and relentless efforts, DRDO officials said.

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 19 Dec 2014 21:37

1 ton is 1000 kg , could be live , or else why test in bay of bengal

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 19 Dec 2014 21:38

the path to desi SDB is now charted with the basic seeker and folding wing systems to be proven in the 1-ton weapon test program.
a range of gliding submunitions can be worked out now, starting from 100kg up.
a small engine derived from lakshya turbjet could be added to one variant to increase range and kinetic penetration effect(or maybe that will be left to brahmos-A)

the 1-ton pkg would permit around 750kg of payload and hopefully being a boxy vlo shape plenty of room for a bucket of submunitions and blast warheads. specialized multi-stage warheads for deeply buried targets and runway damage durandal type munitions can be worked out. FAE also. EMP discharger. carbon filaments for shorting electrical distribution yards.

this is my new favourite desi product, until A5 cansister and K4 test for sure.

vasu raya · Post by **vasu raya** » 19 Dec 2014 22:28

Maybe they can start precision bombing the culverts to stop the special trains commuting audience for India's most wanted, even a venue preparation can be out, a post aiding infiltration missed by a whisker, just keep threatening and any fatalities on our side should result in more, a lot more on their side making it as obvious as the fate of Sarabjit-Jundullah.

Stealth shaping would be useful for deniability, and AMRAAMs are useless aganist Pinaka launcher

shaun · Post by **shaun** » 19 Dec 2014 22:33

Thakur_B wrote: You've got the order backwards. The last images are ancient ones, the one on top is the latest. (use google image search)

If the latest design is the 1st pic , then where is the mast mounted target acquisition suite ?? my estimated guess , still work going on NAMICA with the increase in envelope of the missile.

vipins · Post by **vipins** » 19 Dec 2014 22:39

This with multiple submunitions will look like a scene from Mahabharat where Arjun releases one arrow and it divides into many,taking out multiple enemies.

Gyan · Post by **Gyan** » 19 Dec 2014 22:50

Might be something like MSOV of Israel.