Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Singha » 19 Dec 2014 23:01

the specs are matching closely. I dont care if we bought a license and pindigenized it, but most likely a domestic effort and similar use case leads to similar soln.

http://www.imi-israel.com/home/doc.aspx?mCatID=65744

this video shows combined use of JSOW, MALD and ARM to counter IADS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Pu_PKpEhqU

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby member_28911 » 19 Dec 2014 23:30

Singha wrote:the specs are matching closely. I dont care if we bought a license and pindigenized it, but most likely a domestic effort and similar use case leads to similar soln.

http://www.imi-israel.com/home/doc.aspx?mCatID=65744

this video shows combined use of JSOW, MALD and ARM to counter IADS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Pu_PKpEhqU


There's no mention of any Seeker for MSOV, only GPS+INS. Ours have an option for "variety of seekers". :twisted:

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby darshhan » 19 Dec 2014 23:33

For those who are still unable to grasp the significance of the development of glide bomb, here is the point. The succesful development of this munition is as or even more important than the development of Brahmos, as far as actual combat is concerned. Infact induction of this glide bomb will mean that Brahmos will hardly be used for sub 100 km targets, thereby saving money. Brahmos will now probably be used Only for extremely high end targets in this range.

Among other areas in Pakistan, huge swaths of POK including Skardu, Muzaffarabad etc and complete Lahore metropolitan area can be successfully devastated by this mass produced weapon.

This weapon can also compensate for our lack of artillery guns to some extent. Although replicating massed fire effect will be extremely difficult for this system.

Congrats to the team that developed this weapon.

What we need is successful mass production of this weapon.

Now only if we had UCAVs capable of carrying this weapon ...............

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby JTull » 20 Dec 2014 00:03

Question is how many of these 1000kg bombs can be carried in one sortie of Su-30MKI?

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby NRao » 20 Dec 2014 00:32

The topic for this conversation should be the glide technology + pin-pint sensor integration. Not sure if the weight of the munition should matter. ?????

However, IF numbers do matter, then perhaps the device could be placed on a transport? Will need extra work for sure.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Prem Kumar » 20 Dec 2014 02:55

Should we assume that, with the success of this 1-ton bomb, the "rolling" issues with Sudarshan have been resolved?

On second thoughts, perhaps not. This glide-bomb looks like a net-new development, not an add-on to an iron bomb. So, aspect ratios, rolling etc would have been controlled from the design stage itself.

Would be interesting to see where we are with Sudarshan

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby member_26622 » 20 Dec 2014 03:21

Shock and Awe potential weapon here.

Since POK is disputed territory, we should launch these from Indian airspace and fry Paki terrorist camps. Still better, target a terrorist rally to get rid of all the cockroaches in one shot.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Singha » 20 Dec 2014 03:26

being unpowered and if VLO airframe, does have the advantage of zero thermal signature for SRAAM/SRSAM to lock onto and VLO will take care of radar sig. we should get ambitious and use a RAM coated VLO airframe, zig zag panels etc from word go..this will be a good controlled testcase for the much bigger AMCA VLO efforts later and enable us to get some experience early on.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Singha » 20 Dec 2014 03:29

lets not forget the pakis already by hook or crook have obtained a similar weapon and were testing it a while back

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/imag ... K4Te9uhfaH

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby NRao » 20 Dec 2014 03:45

Seems to have a snout at the bottom. Is this one a powered unit?

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Prem Kumar » 20 Dec 2014 04:53

Singha Ji: AASM is 350 Kg & AGM-154 is 450 Kg. The DRDO baby is 1000 Kg! I would thunk that it would be a greater engineering challenge to make a heavier weapon glide without power for 100 Km! Even if its DDM and its only 1000 Lbs, that's still in the AGM-154 class, which is pretty amazing

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Victor » 20 Dec 2014 05:56

The desi bomb will be a huge beast and if it's going to glide 100 km + it will have a flat lifting body type design in addition to wings. It will need a high altitude release to realize max range. Ya Allah. A khatarnak weapon and fresh breeze indeed. Now let's get this thing operational in large numbers by next year. If the test was proclaimed "successful" then there should not be the need for winter, spring, autumn, summer testing.

The paki H2 and H4 SOW (South African Kentron Raptor I and II based on the Darter) so-called 'gilde bombs' (SOW=female pig) use solid booster rockets and will leave physically and thermally visible trails making them easier to take out at least in the boost phase.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Victor » 20 Dec 2014 06:01

pandyan wrote:any idea what altitude the bum was released from? would wind direction/turbulence/temperature alter the range substantially?

Altitude of release will determine distance of glide. The max range of 100 km + will probably need 30k+ feet altitude. With on board seekers and autonomous control, wind etc won't effect its accuracy but head winds may lengthen range of glide.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Thakur_B » 20 Dec 2014 07:07

Singha wrote:the path to desi SDB is now charted with the basic seeker and folding wing systems to be proven in the 1-ton weapon test program.
a range of gliding submunitions can be worked out now, starting from 100kg up.
a small engine derived from lakshya turbjet could be added to one variant to increase range and kinetic penetration effect(or maybe that will be left to brahmos-A)


A recent tender for fuses for penetration bombs (ARDE or TBRL, I don't remember which) called for fuses suitable for penetration bombs from 80 to 1000 kg. Your wishes might be answered soon.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby saip » 20 Dec 2014 07:17

krishnan wrote:1 ton is 1000 kg , could be live , or else why test in bay of bengal

One tonne is 1000 KG (2200 lb), ton is 2240 lb, short ton 2000 lb,

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby krishnan » 20 Dec 2014 08:32

whats the diff between kg and KG ?

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby saip » 20 Dec 2014 08:50

I dont thing there is any difference between kg And KG (Not like KB & kb)

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby member_28788 » 20 Dec 2014 09:21

Seems like this glide bomb is the smart thing to do. It literally makes dumb bombs smart :D
How do other countries compare on this capability?

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby dinesha » 20 Dec 2014 10:24

As per the reports of Rout, canisterised Agni-V to be test fired on January 7th or 8th depending upon the PM Modi's schedule ..

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Singha » 20 Dec 2014 11:06

the max gliding range is usually indicated from 40,000ft and just under mach1 release.

beyond that altitude I am not sure things can glide along efficiently, the air might be too thin.

the powered big brother of the JSOW, the JASSM is 1 ton and photos show it to be around 12 feet long with a body thicker than a mans

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Gyan » 20 Dec 2014 11:13

There are reports from 1-2 years back (google for it) that say that DRDO is working on glide bombs of 100kg, 250kg and 500 kg category which have already been tested. I think that those were ordinary strap on wing kits guided by INS/GPS. The present 1000kg beast may be MSOV type variant which is guided by INS/GPS in its basic form with modular provision for addition of sensors like IIR, MMW, data links etc. As a glide bomb of 1000kg would be big and slow so it is reasonable to expect that it will have stealth otherwise it may be shot out of the air.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby member_20453 » 20 Dec 2014 12:01

Incredible news, indeed one of the most significant weapons of the near future. Does this mean laser seekers developed for Sudarshan will be used on this glide bomb? Could it be the ER version of Sudarshan? Either way, we need a mass order of over a 100k kits.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Gyan » 20 Dec 2014 12:02

5th September 2005, 12:28
Pune, September 3: IMAGINE a bomb packed with high energy explosives which after getting dropped off from a plane glides for a hundred kilometers before hitting its target with pinpoint accuracy. It is being developed at the Armament Research and Development Establishment (ARDE), Pune.

Designed to strike deep into enemy territory, the 450-kg Extended Range - Precision Guided Munition (ER-PGM) will have a ‘tail’ equipped with GPS-INS (Global Positioning Systems-Inertial Navigation Systems) guidance and a ‘glide kit’ (a pair of retractable wings) to carry the bomb for 100 km before hitting its target with an error margin (circular error probability) of only 3-4 metres.

‘‘We are working on the bomb with a 100 km stand-off (distance from which it can be dropped) but it may take sometime before actual tests are carried out,’’ said A S Rajagopal, Director ARDE.

While Rajagopal is reluctant to give any time line for the development of the bomb, ARDE officials said a functional model may be ready by the end of next year — the system configuration is complete.

The advantage of such a long-range bomb is that it delivers the payload (explosive) to the designated target with minimal risk to the carrier aircraft. The bomb also carries an element of surprise as it cannot be easily detected by the enemy. The precision GPS-INS guidance systems also help to maintain minimum collateral damage. Though the cost of a single unit is much more than a conventional bomb, the accuracy makes it cost effective as the target need not be carpet bombed with a barrage of convention bombs.

The long-range bomb is being designed specifically for the Air Force but it can later be adapted into a barrel-launched Army and Navy version also. ARDE scientists are also working on a concrete buster bomb which will first penetrate a hard layer of concrete and then explode to destroy bunkers and underground targets.

What makes it special
It will be fitted with a tail and retractable wings to give it gliding and navigation functions
Once the bomb is released from the aircraft (maximum 100 km from the target) the wings will unfold and the bomb will act like a high speed unpowered glider
The bomb will be guided by a GPS-INS system controlling its tail unit
After travelling the required distance, the bomb strikes its target with great accuracy.

http://cities.expressindia.com/fullstor ... sid=146997

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Gyan » 20 Dec 2014 12:04

http://www.livefistdefence.com/2008/09/ ... -drdo.html

Monday, September 22, 2008

EXCLUSIVE: Israel proposes JV with DRDO for standoff PGM

In yet another power-pitch for collaborative weapons development, Israel has proposed a joint venture with India to develop and manufacture an air-delivered fire-and-forget precision guided standoff weapon for the Indian and Israeli air forces. The weapon will be developed to deliver both conventional and nuclear warheads over sizeable standoff ranges. The proposal was formally made by an Israeli defence delegation, led by senior officials from Rafael Advanced Defense Systems, to the DRDO's Armament Research & Development Establishment (ARDE) in Pune on July 7, and carried forward with two more meetings at the DRDO Headquarters level in August and this month. A project case is currently under preparation -- paperwork is likely to take at least eight more months, though with elections looming, who knows.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Gyan » 20 Dec 2014 12:08

http://articles.economictimes.indiatime ... s-the-drdo

PTI Jun 2, 2013, 11.31AM IST

The DRDO is working on developing glide capabilities on the existing bombs of various payloads including 100 kgs, 250 kgs and 500 kgs.

The DRDO has already carried out two trials of such bombs successfully and plans to hold more trials this year for proving the capabilities of the ammunition.

"By the end of the next year, we want to complete all the development trials of the glide bombs before offering it to the IAF," he said.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Gyan » 20 Dec 2014 12:13

http://pib.nic.in/newsite/PrintRelease.aspx?relid=113801

DRDO Tests 1000 Kg Class Indigenous Guided Glide Bomb

A 1000 kg glide bomb designed and developed by Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) was successfully tested today, in Bay of Bengal of the coast of Odisha. The bomb was dropped by an Indian Air force aircraft, The bomb, guided by its ‘on board navigation system’ glided for nearly 100 km before hitting the target with great precision. The flight of the glide bomb was monitored by radars and electro-optic systems stationed at Integrated Test Range (ITR). Multiple DRDO laboratories namely, DARE, Bangalore, ARDE, Pune and TBRL, Chandigarh, with RCI, Hyderabad as the nodal laboratory have contributed towards development of the glide bomb. The complete avionics package and navigation system has been designed and developed by RCI.

Dr. Avinash Chander, Scientific Advisor to RM, Secretary, Deptt. of Def. R&D & DG DRDO has congratulated all the team members including the Air force team who have contributed in the success and stated, “ The nation today has capability to design, developed and launch heavy bombs for delivery up to 100 km away with high precision”. Dr. G Satheesh Reddy, Distinguish Scientist and Director RCI stated, “Country has now become self-reliant in the area of guided precision bombs”.



Note it says "Glide Bomb" not at a "kit" for converting a conventional bomb to PGM. My guess is that India has been working on JDAM type of kit for 100kg, 250kg, 450kg bombs for around 10 years or and they were tested in last year. This new 1000kg monster is a stealth glide bomb with a option to incorporate various type of sensors. Something akin to MSOV and JSOW rolled into one.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby member_28911 » 20 Dec 2014 12:19

The Hindu: India tests glide bomb

A 1000-kg “glide bomb”, designed and developed by the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO), was successfully tested on Friday by dropping it on from a fighter-aircraft over the Bay of Bengal, off the Odisha coast. The bomb was dropped by an Indian Air Force fighter-aircraft, which took off from the Kalaikunda air base, near Kharagpur, West Bengal. The bomb, guided (repeat guided) by its on-board navigation system, glided for about 100 km before reaching the targeted area with precision. The flight of the glide bomb was monitored by radars and electro-optic systems, stationed at the DRDO’s Integrated Test Range at Balasore, Odisha. The glide bomb was tested a few times in 2013.


Several DRDO laboratories including Defence Avionics Research Establishment (DARE), Bengaluru, Armaments Research and Development Establishment (ARDE), Pune and Terminal Ballistics Research Laboratory (TBRL), Chandigarh, with RCI as the nodal facility developed the glide bomb.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby ramana » 20 Dec 2014 13:20

Gyan and Ankar thanks.
1000kg means IAF is finally believing in killing the target dead and not just pinging.

Is this like the Mk-84 or I-2000?

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby ramana » 20 Dec 2014 13:23

Would be interesting to think of range of targets for this weapon.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby SSridhar » 20 Dec 2014 14:05

Gyan wrote:"By the end of the next year [2014], we want to complete all the development trials of the glide bombs before offering it to the IAF," he said.

So, it has completed all trials now and the announcement is being made for the first time after it is all over. Great job.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby srai » 20 Dec 2014 15:39

The new glide bomb is most likely 1000 lb (not kg) or 450kg class. That is pretty much the standard bomb that LGB kits have been mated to up till now. I haven't heard of IAF having 2000lb (1,000kg) bomb in its arsenal.

Note: 1000kg could, however, be total weight of the glide/guidance kit plus 450kg bomb. That would made the glide/guidance kit 500kg.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Thakur_B » 20 Dec 2014 15:43

srai wrote:The new glide bomb is most likely 1000 lb (not kg) or 450kg class. That is pretty much the standard bomb that LGB kits have been mated to up till now. I haven't heard of IAF having 2000lb (1,000kg) bomb in its arsenal.


It is not a case of DDMitis, it is a 1000 Kg bomb. Most likely not a strap on kit as we don't operate any HSLD bombs of that class.

Press Information Bureau
Government of India
Ministry of Defence
19-December-2014 18:02 IST
DRDO Tests 1000 Kg Class Indigenous Guided Glide Bomb


A 1000 kg glide bomb designed and developed by Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) was successfully tested today, in Bay of Bengal of the coast of Odisha. The bomb was dropped by an Indian Air force aircraft, The bomb, guided by its ‘on board navigation system’ glided for nearly 100 km before hitting the target with great precision. The flight of the glide bomb was monitored by radars and electro-optic systems stationed at Integrated Test Range (ITR). Multiple DRDO laboratories namely, DARE, Bangalore, ARDE, Pune and TBRL, Chandigarh, with RCI, Hyderabad as the nodal laboratory have contributed towards development of the glide bomb. The complete avionics package and navigation system has been designed and developed by RCI.

Dr. Avinash Chander, Scientific Advisor to RM, Secretary, Deptt. of Def. R&D & DG DRDO has congratulated all the team members including the Air force team who have contributed in the success and stated, “ The nation today has capability to design, developed and launch heavy bombs for delivery up to 100 km away with high precision”. Dr. G Satheesh Reddy, Distinguish Scientist and Director RCI stated, “Country has now become self-reliant in the area of guided precision bombs”.

DM/HH


http://pib.nic.in/newsite/PrintRelease.aspx?relid=113801

Note: 1000kg could, however, be total weight of the glide/guidance kit plus 450kg bomb. That would made the glide/guidance kit 500kg.


Very unlikely, that would make it an unpowered cruise missile :)

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby krishnan » 20 Dec 2014 15:57

as per some news , next Agni - 5 test with be canister based and involve MIRV

http://www.defencenews.in/defence-news- ... YJNH$$/jA=
Last edited by krishnan on 20 Dec 2014 16:05, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby srai » 20 Dec 2014 16:04

Thakur_B wrote:
srai wrote:The new glide bomb is most likely 1000 lb (not kg) or 450kg class. That is pretty much the standard bomb that LGB kits have been mated to up till now. I haven't heard of IAF having 2000lb (1,000kg) bomb in its arsenal.


It is not a case of DDMitis, it is a 1000 Kg bomb. Most likely not a strap on kit as we don't operate any HSLD bombs of that class.

Press Information Bureau
Government of India
Ministry of Defence
19-December-2014 18:02 IST
DRDO Tests 1000 Kg Class Indigenous Guided Glide Bomb


A 1000 kg glide bomb designed and developed by Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) was successfully tested today, in Bay of Bengal of the coast of Odisha. The bomb was dropped by an Indian Air force aircraft, The bomb, guided by its ‘on board navigation system’ glided for nearly 100 km before hitting the target with great precision. The flight of the glide bomb was monitored by radars and electro-optic systems stationed at Integrated Test Range (ITR). Multiple DRDO laboratories namely, DARE, Bangalore, ARDE, Pune and TBRL, Chandigarh, with RCI, Hyderabad as the nodal laboratory have contributed towards development of the glide bomb. The complete avionics package and navigation system has been designed and developed by RCI.

Dr. Avinash Chander, Scientific Advisor to RM, Secretary, Deptt. of Def. R&D & DG DRDO has congratulated all the team members including the Air force team who have contributed in the success and stated, “ The nation today has capability to design, developed and launch heavy bombs for delivery up to 100 km away with high precision”. Dr. G Satheesh Reddy, Distinguish Scientist and Director RCI stated, “Country has now become self-reliant in the area of guided precision bombs”.

DM/HH


http://pib.nic.in/newsite/PrintRelease.aspx?relid=113801

Note: 1000kg could, however, be total weight of the glide/guidance kit plus 450kg bomb. That would made the glide/guidance kit 500kg.


Very unlikely, that would make it an unpowered cruise missile :)


I know that sounds heavy but what is the weight of the glide & guidance kits vs weight of the dumb bomb?

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby member_27164 » 20 Dec 2014 16:21

i am little surprised that nobody mentioned following things wrt new glide bomb: (or i am really silly.)
1. many people mentioned targeting terrorists in pak, pok etc but nobody mentioned mountains in north east is better reachable now.
2. its 1000kg so can be nuclear weapon also.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Thakur_B » 20 Dec 2014 16:33

srai wrote:
I know that sounds heavy but what is the weight of the glide & guidance kits vs weight of the dumb bomb?


If it's a wing kit, then probably a couple of dozen odd kilos at the max ? It's just fiberglass wings, wings, electronics and a tail. Boeing claimed that their JDAM-ER kit won't weigh much more than a regular JDAM.

The wing makes little difference to the mass and dimensions of the weapon, says the Australian defense department. It offers a cheap alternative to powered stand-off missiles for some missions and will first go into service with the Royal Australian Air Force.

http://aviationweek.com/defense/boeing-build-gliding-stand-version-jdam-0

If it's a standalone weapon like JSOW, then maybe a couple of hundred kilos or more other than the warhead.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby SSridhar » 20 Dec 2014 17:11

krishnan wrote:as per some news , next Agni - 5 test with be canister based and involve MIRV
http://www.defencenews.in/defence-news- ... YJNH$$/jA=

Canister based, it certainly will be. Original plan was to have MIRV in c. 2015. But, if it happens now, all the sweeter.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby abhik » 20 Dec 2014 17:27

I think is was publicly confirmed that the A5 will carry only a single warhead. A6 will have the MIRVs.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Gyan » 20 Dec 2014 20:17

What I was trying to point out by various links that there seem to be 3 programmes which may have been running for atleast 10 years or more. These programmes which may now actually be near completion seem to be:-

1. Strap on PGM "kit" for 100kg, 250kg and 450kg dumb bombs equivalent to JDAM guided by INS-GPS with range of around 50km

2. Laser guided Bomb "kit" with range of 10km and Next Generation Laser guided Bomb kit for (250kg? and) 450kg bombs with range of 50km

3. 1000kg " integrated stealth Glide Bomb" similar to MSOV guided by INS-GPS with perhaps option for seeker and data links with range of 100km+
Last edited by Gyan on 20 Dec 2014 20:53, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Singha » 20 Dec 2014 20:28

If we can develop smart submunitions these can replace the limited now of cbu105 sfw we got.


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