Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

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John
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby John » 01 Mar 2015 05:31

indranilroy wrote:Actually, that 5 Brahmos-M per airplane is almost certain. I heard it from multiple places, from the Brahmos head and also the HAL head. But, I feel although the capability will exists and photos will be published, at most 3 will be fielded operationally.


I suppose it can carry that load if weight is 1.5 tons. But the biggest advantage of Brahmos M IMO is that it can fit in 21 inch torpedo tubes.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby vipins » 01 Mar 2015 17:27

Missile Components
Image
link

Astra OBC
Image
link

FINGS and EMA
Image
link

SOC
Image
link


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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby keshavchandra » 08 Mar 2015 15:00

One question, do we still have RGB60 rockets in service?


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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Thakur_B » 10 Mar 2015 19:20

http://www.drdo.gov.in/drdo/tenders/viewTender.jsp?paramMicro=9326

Detailed drawings of RCI's glide bomb kit. The document doesn't show what the final assembly will look like, but from the various skin components listed, it looks like it's not just a kit but an entire housing.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Indranil » 10 Mar 2015 20:35

I feel it is a kit. All the adapters are circular in nature. This would not have been a requirement with a housing.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Thakur_B » 11 Mar 2015 07:33

indranilroy wrote:I feel it is a kit. All the adapters are circular in nature. This would not have been a requirement with a housing.


Indranil babu, check out the drawings pdf which lists the master drawing index (pg 24), most of which is not covered in this pdf, it specifically lists aero cover assembly and supports.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Indranil » 11 Mar 2015 18:00

I may be wrong here, but I think the aero cover is the aerodynamic fairing for the kit, not the bomb.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Rahul M » 13 Mar 2015 00:02

BR is in need of some people of the kind who roam these threads. would you help ?

please see viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6985 for details.

regards,
- Rahul.


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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby member_28108 » 14 Mar 2015 22:46

http://idrw.org/archives/59988

Parrikar takes dig at Armed forces for Repeatedly changing Staff requirements on Indigenous weapons systems
Published March 14, 2015 | By admin
SOURCE : IDRW NEWS NETWORK (INN)



Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar talking on the sideline of India today conclave 2015 said that he was not happy with Armed forces repeatedly changing requirements in the weapons systems currently been developed by various Public sector units, he also said that he has ensured that no more last minutes changes will be entertained hence forth once staff requirement has been defined .

Parrikar also said sometimes General Staff Qualitative Requirement (GSQR) laid down by Armed forces in the weapons systems to be developed in India seems like right out of ” Marvel comic Movies “, :rotfl: clearly hinting that Technologies requested in Indigenous weapons systems sometimes purely is absurd and not realistic in nature . with Former Army chief Bikram Singh sitting next to him hints were clearly pointed towards Indian army .

Repeated changes in GSQR and unrealistic technology requested in the short time frame has been criticised by DRDO in past and many key projects like Arjun main battle tanks and LCA Tejas have seen delays due to repeated changes asked almost every time at last minute when weapons system is all set for production or enter user trials.

Indian Defense analytics for long have criticized Indian military planners of drafting unrealistic General Staff Qualitative Requirement (GSQR) for local weapons systems, some have even had gone on to say that sometimes GSQR framed was heavily influenced by different military brochures of International defence manufacturers .
Last edited by member_28108 on 14 Mar 2015 22:48, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby arshyam » 14 Mar 2015 22:47

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, this is what India's daughters have been up to:

Women’s Day Special: Akash Missile System propelled by BEL’s women power - Dr Anantha Krishnan M, OneIndia/Tarmak blog

This piece of news should inspire Prime Minister Narendra Modi, who is pushing for Naari Shakthi (women power) to propel India's growth. The Akash Missile System (AMS), under the command of the Indian Air Force (IAF) now, saw women playing significant roles during various stages of its development and trials, leading to its induction. These go-getters from Bharat Electronics Ltd (BEL), have proven that they are on par with men, who hitherto hogged all the limelight.

During an interaction with OneIndia, on the eve of International Women's Day, the women who powered the AMS were univocal in their views that BEL always gave its women employees and executives challenging assignments to prove their worth.' As a result, the mighty women brigade of BEL matched men on all the domains, be it in Design, Project Management, Procurement, Manufacturing, Quality Assurance, Testing and Customer Support. In addition to their large representation from Bengaluru units, women from BEL's Ghaziabad, Panchkula and Chennai wings too contributed significantly to the success of AMS.


Role of women in Akash project

The IAF has inducted two Squadrons of AMS and are likely to procure additional seven more squadrons, making it a clear winner in the Make in India mission. The women workforce from BEL played a key role in the following areas:

• Development of mission-critical software for combat vehicles.
• Qualification testing of radars and command centers.
• Rigorous performance validation of missile system for interface and integrated functions.
• Integration testing of AMS for various complex combat scenarios.
• Calibration and accuracy monitoring of various technical parameters with live flying.
• Firing trials to validate the performance of the ground systems and missiles.
• Installation, commissioning and training the user on operation and maintenance of AMS.
• Customer support.

The women executives were led by N Manjula Devi, Deputy General Manager, Testing. The team was involved in the planning and execution of flight trials of Akash in close cordination with the customer representatives and Design agencies. Nataraj Krishnappa, General Manager (Missile Systems), BEL, told OneIndia that the women team members were involved in many complex activities of AMS. "During the finalization of the critical flight path and post-flight data analysis, these women had to be in remote locations. Sometimes, the job demanded them to be present during odd hours and even in hostile environmental conditions. I am happy that the team commanded by Manjula did a commendable job. They were successful in the completion of Site Acceptance Test, installation and commissioning of AMS at the user site," says Nataraj.

Team leader had to outsource some work at home

For Manjula, working in the Akash project is the most satisfying part of her career at BEL. "Firstly, because AMS aids our defense forces to protect our county. Secondly, it is a complex, first of its kind in India to be indigenously designed and developed. Working in Akash project is very exciting as every activity is a first-time challenge," says Manjula, a mother of two. She admits that managing work-life balance was a huge challenge for her. "I am lucky that I got good support from my family. We outsourced certain routine and trivial activities on the home front, which enabled me to undertake frequent outstation assignments, during the project execution phase," says Manjula. Witnessing Akash hitting the target thrilled her The missile's firing trials were a real test for Manjula's physical and mental endurance. She was part of the team which was responsible for ensuring the system readiness for the mission. It meant meticulous planning and execution and close coordination with various vendors, design agencies and users. "Post mission data analysis, we had to carry out modifications. Validation of changes was a challenging task and we stayed awake late into many nights under extreme weather conditions. But, witnessing the successful live firing of the missile and it destroying the Banshee target (at 35m height) bang on will always remain as one of the most proudest moments in my life," adds Manjula. Manjula was chosen to lead the team for Site Acceptance Test (SAT) of first Squadron of AMS for the IAF. This involved simultaneous operation of 18 combat vehicles to perform missile system operation. "Successful execution of the activity increased my confidence level to a great extent. I was also fortunate to be the leader of the commissioning team that successfully completed the installation and commissioning of first two squadrons of Akash. This was another proud moment for me," she said. She also credits the success to her male colleagues who guided and groomed her at various stages of the mission. Pushpa, Senior DGM from Development and Engineering wing said that the Akash missile's Pokhran trials were truly memorable. "I was the only woman from BEL present during the Pokhran Mobility Trials. It was a matter of great pride for me. My heart-felt joy after mobility trials in hot weather (in Pokhran) and successful firing trials in peak winter (in Balasore) can never be expressed in words. The experiences from these trials taught me and my team many lessons," says Pushpa. As the Division Head of Radar Signal Processing core group in BEL, Sarala B, a Senior DGM, felt that the firing trials gave her immense confidence and trust in the performance of the AMS. "In spite of the severe flight conditions and critical flight exercises during the trials, the AMS undoubtedly performed to the maximum limit. I am really honoured to have worked for this outstanding project. It inspires me to achieve more in future," opines Sarala.

Women can take on any challenges now

According to Devika, DGM from a group which designed and developed simulators for Akash project, it was a general norm in the past that the women were not assigned high-profile responsibilities. "Times have changed and today women are assigned challenging responsibilities. Women have gained trust and credibility by fulfilling the responsibilities with utmost dedication, commitment and care. This was evident during AMS Project implementation. We have never felt low, inferior or feared failures at any point," says Devika. For Aparna Shastri, Manager, Quality Assurance, the biggest challenge was to ensure compliance of all the vendors involved in the project. "The most defining moment for me was witnessing the successful Akash firing trials at ITR Chandipur, where all our subsystems and systems were validated for their best performance, thereby realising the project objectives and meeting the user requirements," recalls Aparna. Officers like Amriena Tabassum B K carried out the challenging task of flying in helicopters for validating the command guidance of missile. Members from the Software Development Team including Sugandha, Deputy Manager and Jayanthi, Senior Engineer, too expressed their satisfaction having worked for the AMS project. Finally, it was the turn of one of the youngest engineers in the project Akshatha J Kini from Development and Engineering section, to air her views. "Breathing life into a seemingly abstract concept by designing a board-based system used for the guidance of Akash missile was a challenge which I enjoyed as an engineer. Seeing the efforts lead to fruition during the successful missile firing trials at Balasore last year was an immensely proud moment for me. I felt proud for having contributed my small bit for our armed forces," says Akshatha.

Read more at: http://www.oneindia.com/india/women-day ... 76497.html

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby ramana » 15 Mar 2015 19:09

Many have pointed out often the brochuriis afflicting both IA and IAF here. Now the Defence Minister is also pointing it out.

Unfortunately the members were at best cautioned.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Yogesh » 15 Mar 2015 20:04

It seems that subtle messages were not heeded, so the honorable Raksha Mantri Jee chooses a place & time to make it more clear to all the stake holders- you all sit together & work out a decent plan/product and gradually improvise rather than demanding TFTA in one go..good to see such clarity & push at the top level!

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby ramana » 15 Mar 2015 20:37

US has policy for weapons procurement. They have to be made in US. Even Beratta hand gun had to open factory in US. That means services have to work with the mfg to get what they want.
The import option allows the Indian services to think the local mfg is just another provider just as a foreign vendor.
And this gives politicians a way to skim from the foreign vendor for political party funds and private accounts.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby SSridhar » 16 Mar 2015 10:59

I am very happy that the Raksha Mantri has echoed some sentiments that were aired here. It is now up to him to ensure that he does not merely stop with that and goes one step further, though it might be dangerous

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Nitesh » 17 Mar 2015 23:02

Astra test getting reported as failure:

http://www.newindianexpress.com/states/ ... 717406.ece

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Cosmo_R » 18 Mar 2015 00:00

^^^"The missile could not be launched though an unmanned aerial vehicle which was to be used as a target for the missile was flown from the Integrated Test Range (ITR) off Odisha coast."

Translating from PTI, it seems the "unmanned aerial vehicle" serves as both the launch vehicle and the target. Interesting.

Go figure :)

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Sid » 18 Mar 2015 00:09

IMHO there should not be DRDO's dream or Military dream on what we can have.

There should be two paths,

1> weapon system for current/emerging threats in short term, achievable using current/available tech. This will allow forces to have a baseline weapon, with must have survivable features.
2> weapon system for true battlefield dominance, where next gen technologies should be explored. Like research into direct energy weapons, 6th gen technologies for fighter aircrafts etc, UCAV etc.

Right now we are trying to invent new tech (brochure stuff) while catching up with current industrial trends. Armed forces are not wrong to ask to better and futuristic weapons, but these requirements are then merged with platforms which can actually do away with these technologies. Now both of these worlds can live in parallel, Research & Develop. Basically there needs to be someone to prioritize the product backlog.

Right now this backlog is maintained by import lobby.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby ramana » 18 Mar 2015 01:09

Cosmo_R wrote:^^^"The missile could not be launched though an unmanned aerial vehicle which was to be used as a target for the missile was flown from the Integrated Test Range (ITR) off Odisha coast."

Translating from PTI, it seems the "unmanned aerial vehicle" serves as both the launch vehicle and the target. Interesting.

Go figure :)


Are you sure?
It means the unmanned target was launched but the Astra missile to shoot it down wasn't. So wasted a target vehicle.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Cosmo_R » 18 Mar 2015 02:09

ramana wrote:
Cosmo_R wrote:^^^"The missile could not be launched though an unmanned aerial vehicle which was to be used as a target for the missile was flown from the Integrated Test Range (ITR) off Odisha coast."

Translating from PTI, it seems the "unmanned aerial vehicle" serves as both the launch vehicle and the target. Interesting.

Go figure :)


Are you sure?
It means the unmanned target was launched but the Astra missile to shoot it down wasn't. So wasted a target vehicle.


No I am not sure :) I think I mistook the 'though' for 'through'. PTI routinely scrambles my brain.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Karan M » 18 Mar 2015 05:46

Well, there will be follow on tests. IIRC this was the final developmental trial (with presence of IAF folks) and user trials would follow thereafter.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Karan M » 18 Mar 2015 05:48

Thakur_B, Nikhil_P, Maitya, Prasanna Simha, Kartik - gents are you interested in contributing to the R&D details on the BR Main site? Do let me or rahul m know.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Philip » 18 Mar 2015 13:23

Every failure is a stepping stone to success. That was a good dig at the services (Marvel comics). But the Q that has to be asked is "who is the boss" for these vital programmes? The IN handles all design of warships,etc. through its naval design team,but as far as the IAF/IA are concerned,it is a war between the DRDO/DPSUs and the two services that often takes place,with the services salivating for imports .Both specs and timeframes with adequate funding and accountability by project heads is needed. Only limited variations in specs for first avatars. Incremental upgrades in capability must be built in for later variants. Hire and fire powers and fiscal autonomy within specified limits for project heads to deliver the goods on time,not two decades late as with the LCA. Ultimately,it is the primary stakeholder,the GOI/MOD that must bear the responsibility of success or failure,why the Cong/UPA and AKA were thrown out in style.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Singha » 18 Mar 2015 14:14

per tarmak blog, DRDO wants to acquire a Su30 to use as flying testbed for stuff like missiles and engines. talks are ongoing.

mainly IAF will have to depute two pilots under ASTE posting probably.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Singha » 18 Mar 2015 16:50

The hindu is reporting astra test as successful.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby DexterM » 18 Mar 2015 18:37

Philip wrote:Every failure is a stepping stone to success. That was a good dig at the services (Marvel comics). But the Q that has to be asked is "who is the boss" for these vital programmes? The IN handles all design of warships,etc. through its naval design team,but as far as the IAF/IA are concerned,it is a war between the DRDO/DPSUs and the two services that often takes place,with the services salivating for imports .Both specs and timeframes with adequate funding and accountability by project heads is needed. Only limited variations in specs for first avatars. Incremental upgrades in capability must be built in for later variants. Hire and fire powers and fiscal autonomy within specified limits for project heads to deliver the goods on time,not two decades late as with the LCA. Ultimately,it is the primary stakeholder,the GOI/MOD that must bear the responsibility of success or failure,why the Cong/UPA and AKA were thrown out in style.

You're completing ignoring the fact that the RM spoke specifically about unrealistic expectations in the staff requirements.

Which part of that can be handled by hiring/firing anyone serving in the forces? Be specific in your reply.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby uddu » 18 Mar 2015 18:49

Astra test-fired successfully against simulated target
http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/a ... 007527.ece

The indigenously developed Beyond Visual Range (BVR) air-to-air missile, Astra, was successfully launched from Sukhoi-30 fighter aircraft to hit a simulated target at the Integrated Test Range, Chandipur in Odisha on Wednesday.

The missile was tested to prove the manoeuvring capability against a simulated target and also to validate various subsystems. All the subsystems like propulsion, navigation, guidance as also the smooth separation of the missile from the aircraft were proved, according to Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) sources.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby pankajs » 18 Mar 2015 21:02

Saurav Jha ‏@SJha1618 4m4 minutes ago

Today's Astra trial was a test of the g-limits of the missile in the end game. The Astra pulled 27Gs.
Saurav Jha ‏@SJha1618 2m2 minutes ago

Yesterday's test was aborted on account of a glitch in the carriage aircraft whose weapon deployment mode suddenly malfunctioned in-flight.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby member_28108 » 18 Mar 2015 21:07

Karan M wrote:Thakur_B, Nikhil_P, Maitya, Prasanna Simha, Kartik - gents are you interested in contributing to the R&D details on the BR Main site? Do let me or rahul m know.

yes
Prasanna

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby pankajs » 18 Mar 2015 21:50

Saurav Jha ‏@SJha1618 5m5 minutes ago

Rustom- 2 will take to the skies next month. Next Nirbhay flight will take place in mid-April. Flight altitude will be around 500 meters.
Saurav Jha ‏@SJha1618 15m15 minutes ago

RCI is working very hard on an indigenous version of the current Astra seeker. Good news is expected.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby member_23370 » 18 Mar 2015 22:33

What is the speed of Astra? Lot of sites say Mach 1.2-1.4 which sounds like BS. BR says Mach 4+?
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/MISSILES/ ... a-aam.html

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Philip » 19 Mar 2015 10:08

Media reports say that one more test is due shortly against a target drone.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Yagnasri » 19 Mar 2015 10:43

Small mango man doubt. Wiki chacha reports that Astra uses different propulsion modes. How does it works. I mean will it increase speed in a tail chase mode or at at a proximity attacking time etc?

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Singha » 19 Mar 2015 11:25

if it says dual pulse motor, means after first stage burnout, it will coast for a while, but relight a smaller motor to increase energy in hard end stage manouvering where a coasting missile will lose energy and slow down after a couple of hard turns. its kind of poor man's ramjet thing (ramjet is powered all the way to end).

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Nitesh » 19 Mar 2015 15:21

Is it uses the same dual pulse motor what Barak 8 uses?
guru log, we are assembling Agat seeker as of now for Astra right? But software is ours so does it means that we are matured in terms of propulsion, engine and control tech? Only need to decode the puzzle for the hardware needed

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby nikhil_p » 19 Mar 2015 16:08

Bheeshma wrote:What is the speed of Astra? Lot of sites say Mach 1.2-1.4 which sounds like BS. BR says Mach 4+?
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/MISSILES/ ... a-aam.html


We wouldn't even work on making it as an AA missile if it was slower than most aircraft which can fly supersonic. A speed of 1.4M, in a tail chase at a target accelerating from 0.8M to 1.8M, will never catch up with it in the BVR regime.
The Astra is a Mach4+ (in boost regime) and can maintain that through coast phase easily.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby pankajs » 19 Mar 2015 17:27

SajeevJino ‏@SajeevJino 1h1 hour ago

Aww. We did it..Astra Successfully intercept and Destroyed the PTA. Congratulations @dpidrdo you make us proud again @vkthakur @SJha1618
Anantha Krishnan M ‏@writetake 1m1 minute ago

#BreakingNews: Official photo release of Astra test firing. The missile was again test-fired from Sukhoi today.
ImageImage

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby koti » 19 Mar 2015 17:52

nikhil_p wrote:
Bheeshma wrote:What is the speed of Astra? Lot of sites say Mach 1.2-1.4 which sounds like BS. BR says Mach 4+?
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/MISSILES/ ... a-aam.html


We wouldn't even work on making it as an AA missile if it was slower than most aircraft which can fly supersonic. A speed of 1.4M, in a tail chase at a target accelerating from 0.8M to 1.8M, will never catch up with it in the BVR regime.
The Astra is a Mach4+ (in boost regime) and can maintain that through coast phase easily.


That is the speed of the maneuvering target, not Astra itself.


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