Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Karan M » 11 Jan 2015 00:14

That book is a goldmine. Check out the achievements in the electronics and missiles cluster -seekers, nav systems, radars, missiles. Arjun Mk2 has more or less completed trials with even Mk2 FSAPDS and armor clearing trials.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby pankajs » 11 Jan 2015 00:17

Dr Saraswat getting appointed to the NITI Aayog .. is that an indicator to the coming induction of domestic weapons and systems that have now matured beyond doubt?

I hope so.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby sivab » 11 Jan 2015 02:28

http://www.drdo.gov.in/drdo/English/DRD ... -ebook.pdf

Agni Programme
India’s Intercontinental surface-to-surface ballistic missile Agni 5, capable of delivering different
warheads with high precision, was successfully launched in a repeat of the spectacular maiden launch
last year. This second launch of long range Agni 5 has been conducted to prove the consistency of
performance of all sub-systems from open rail mobile launcher. First missile ejection test was successfully
conducted from full-scale canister which proved cold launch capability for Agni
5 from actual Road Mobile
Launcher (RML). This test was conducted from facility identified for production of Agni missiles. The test
met all mission requirements. Deliverable missiles have been realised for Agni 1, Agni 2 and Agni 3 as
per Services requirements. Flight trials have been conducted successfully for Agni 1, Agni 2, Agni 3, Agni
5 and MET (MA5-01) :?:


Propulsion Systems
Preliminary design has been
completed for Stage-1 Composite (S1C) motor, propulsion systems
of all stages for A1P :?: , Agni 4 (Mk-II), etc. Single gas generator has been tested for Agni 5 canister
launch application and launch dynamic model has been validated. Some new technologies, viz., thrust
termination, steam gas generator, etc., in the areas of propulsion, are now being taken up by the
laboratory


Progress on Composites
Large monolithic SiC motors were designed and realized for future projects to reduce the missile
weight. Acceptance testing is under progress. Grid-stiffened air frame structures for Agni class of missiles
have been designed and realised for future missiles. Composite rocket motor has been fabricated using
high-strength resin system and demonstrated factor of safety by conducting burst test. Composite
canister realisation is under progress for Agni 5 with facilities created within ASL. After qualification
testing of indigenous composite canister for PJ-10, two missile launches were successful with this
canister. Qualifications testing of F1 section and radome for PJ-10 have been successfully conducted.
Canister for Agni 4 has been designed with composite and metal. A fully automated inspection system
based on air-coupled ultrasonic technique for Agni 5 canister is being developed.


Akash Missile System
Akash, a medium-range (25 km) SAM system is under continuous production and
induction in to the Indian Air Force and the Indian Army. The total production order value
of Akash Missile System (AMS) for Indian Air Force and Indian Army is of the order of
19,500 Cr
. A path was created for continuous production, inspection, testing, delivery, and induction
of AMS in Indian Armed Forces for the first time in the country. Out of
19,500 Cr order equipment worth 1,500 Cr have already been produced and delivered to Indian Air Force.
For Indian Army, 33 equipment worth about 300 Cr have been realised and ready for delivery after limited validation trials
and weapon system integration trials.


New Generation Anti-Radiation Missile
New generation anti-radiation missile (NGARM) is an air-launched missile designed for destroying
a variety of radar targets on the ground. It is planned to have an interception range of 15-100 km and
launch altitudes of 100 m to 15 km from Su-30 MKI aircraft. NGARM will home onto and destroy the
radar emitters without any input from the aircraft. The guidance is primarily based on the radar emission
received by the onboard passive homing guidance. It has the capability to discriminate the target of
interest among a number of emitters available in the field-of-view. The missile has a warhead which can
cause damage to the target radars, triggered by laser proximity fuze. The missile is required to operate
in two modes of operation, namely Lock-on-Before Launch (LOBL) and Lock-on-After Launch (LOAL)
modes. PDR of sub-systems and mission review of the project is complete. Rocket motor fabrication is
in advanced stage. Hardware fabrication and wind tunnel testing has also been initiated.


Supersonic Cruise Missile BrahMos
This is a universal missile capable of being launched from multiple platforms based on land, sea,
sub-sea, and air against both sea and land targets. BrahMos has a range of 290 km with a speed of
more than 2.8 Mach. Different versions of BrahMos missiles have been deployed on naval warships
and mobile complexes for the Indian Navy and Indian Army. BrahMos has undergone successful flight
trials from Pontoon (underwater) and Mobile Autonomous Launcher (MAL). Test firings from INS Teg
and INS Tarkash destroyed the target with precision. The weapon systems have already been installed
on four ships and are progressively being installed on six more ships. Indian Army has carried out
regular practice firing for operationalising the second regiment
. Qualification testing of F2 section (2
nos.), manufacturing using indigenous material and 100 per cent structural testing of F1 section (1 no.)
has been completed. Static test of indigenously developed High Thrust Motor (HTM) was successfully
conducted.Development of thermo-stable fuel (CEL-16) for ramjet engine operation (T-6 equivalent)
and static testing of the fuel at various Air/Fuel (A/F) ratios were completed.Tests for two indigenous
warheads (live) were also done


Anti-Tank Guided Missile
Nag is a 3rd generation ATGM with Fire and Forget and Top Attack capabilities. It is deployed on
a specially modified ICV BMP-2 vehicle called Namica. Nag has performed satisfactorily against static
and moving targets up to a range of 4 km during nominal operational conditions. Two prototypes of
an improved seeker based on higher resolution detector have been developed and Seeker Evaluation
Trials (SET) in stand-alone mode, have been successfully carried out over the entire diurnal cycle,
along with the User (Indian Army)
.
HELINA
HELINA is a 7+ km third-generation ATGM for Advanced Light Helicopter (ALH). The critical
sub-systems have been realised for the missile system and the flight performance evaluated through
ground flight trials. The autonomous ballistic test has also been conducted from ALH. The land-to-
land preliminary trials of HELINA were carried out during which the missile hit the target successfully.

Three booster rocket motors are being prepared for integrations for flight trials. Missiles integration for
flight trials HE-13, HE-14, and HE-15 is in progress. Helicopter trials of HELINA Fire Control System
(FCS) were completed and the results are satisfactory. Propulsion systems have been realised,
successfully re-designed and tested for HELINA. Flight trials with the reconfigured missile system
was conducted which proved the redesigned propulsion, aerodynamic and control performances. The
repeat control performance and LOBL guided performance at 7 km have been established proving the
7 km LOBL capability of the missile

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby srai » 11 Jan 2015 02:35

^^^

Mods, can we do a sticky thread with a collection of DRDO and MOD publications and other great articles? Would be a nice reference on indigenous R&D.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Thakur_B » 11 Jan 2015 08:19

From the report, a MWIR seeker is in development. It doesn't state the application but my estimate would be a short range air to air variant of astra. Also a small image of miniature PGM that looks like a derivative of NAG is also provided. Interestingly a 500 Kg fuel air bomb is about to go for testing from Su-30Mki. The GPS/INS bomb kit with seeker (NG-LGB) is also under testing. The report says that it 'tracked' the target which should imply it would be used against moving targets.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Thakur_B » 11 Jan 2015 09:33

Shaun wrote:jamwal ji thanks for that drdo article, so firing projectile using electro-magnetic propulsion is no new to India. considering thakurji's post one can only imagine now, things will get bigger and better. capacitor bank in the article reminds me of the improvised capacitor bank I had to make for 132kv s/w yard line stabilisation test.


The ARDE set up from the tender documents:
Image

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby pankajs » 11 Jan 2015 11:45

From the DRDO report
INS based on MEMS sensors was devleoped for Gruthma and Nirbhay.
Successfully flight-tested in Gruthma and Nirbhay.
What is this Gruthma that is mentioned twice alongside Nirbhay?

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby jamwal » 11 Jan 2015 12:07

Silly statement. Wouldn't use of superconducting material make this railgun better ?

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby member_28108 » 11 Jan 2015 12:21

jamwal wrote:Silly statement. Wouldn't use of superconducting material make this railgun better ?

Maintaining the superconducting magnet with liquid helium becomes the issue.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Rahul M » 11 Jan 2015 12:28

srai wrote:^^^

Mods, can we do a sticky thread with a collection of DRDO and MOD publications and other great articles? Would be a nice reference on indigenous R&D.

please do. A Sharma's posts should have links to back issues of techfocus.


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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby pankajs » 11 Jan 2015 17:10

From the DRDO report
-------------------->
Precision Guided Munitions
Captive flight test was held at Yelahanka, Bengaluru. Lock-on-after-launch algorithms and transfer alignment have been proved.

LOAL on PGM??? A PGM with datalink then!

In any case LOAL should then be available to HELINA/NAG.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby JE Menon » 11 Jan 2015 17:10

To repeat pankajs question, anybody know what "Gruthma" is? Unkle Googul comes up with zero, except pankajs question and some Scot names - which is kind of weird in itself...

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby pankajs » 11 Jan 2015 17:27

"Gruthma" must be an internal code name for some secret project that has been tested but not announced. Perhaps another version of Nirbhay. Perhaps an underwater launched Nirbhay is nearer completion. Public names are usually linked to some object/property in our epics or of nature.
Imaging Infra-Red Seeker

High resolution seekers based on 320 × 256 long wave infra-red Focal Plane Array (FPA) and 384×288 medium wave infra-red FPA have been realised. Integration of 128×128 LWIR FPA-based seekers into PDV missiles for Air Defence Application is in final stages. Captive flight trials have been conducted for establising the terminal guidance of long-range missiles against fixed targets. Development of 640 × 512 MWIR FPA-based seeker and a miniature seeker has been initiated.

RF Seeker
MMW Seeker: Configuration for LOAL operation has been completed and proven in HILS. Interfaces with OBC, INS and Telemetry were successfully established. Flight trial of PGM seeker range and angle tracking was established in MI-8 helicopter. Seeker is under productionisation for ATL.

ARSEEK: DSP-based active radar seeker was fully integrated and evaluated successfully.

High Dynamic Range Altimeter: Frequency Modulated Continuous Wave (FMCW) Radio Altimeter was successfully test flown in helicopter trials

Project Astra: AGAT seeker was integrated with missile and flight tested in December 2012. Two seekers were tested successfully with AIR targets. Indigenous development of Ku band seeker to replace non-ToT modules of AGAT seeker is under progress. ToT from M/s AGAT, Russia to M/s BEL have been initiated for realisation of Ku-band seeker.

Anti-ship Seeker: Design and development of anti-ship seeker is under progress.

AESA Seeker: TR module class MEMS Phase Shifter integration is under progress.

PGM LOAL uses MMW seeker. INS to guide it to the approximate location till the MMW seeker takes over in the terminal phase.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Sagar G » 11 Jan 2015 18:14

Vipul Dave wrote:These are not my claims nor my wish but it is something DRDO had openly announced in Public. When they announced that the had begun the work on MK2, had the project started without the approval or requirement of Armed Forces?


Trusting speculative news leads one to such misplaced conceptions. Can you put the link where DRDO "announced publicly" about the program ??? Remember that the link must have quote from a DRDO top guy confirming the same and not some media speculation from "sources".

Vipul Dave wrote:Now if the MK2 project in its original form is dropped, is not that a waste of Valuable resources and time? You need to take decisions quickly if you want to do progress rapidly. This is wasting of time and lethargic approach shall have a negative impact on cost and time over run.


What "original form" ??? When the specs of mk.2 are yet to be decided and it is yet to start where does the question of it being dropped come from ??? First prove that the program had started by the date before pontificating DRDO about "wasting time and lethargic approach".

Vipul Dave wrote:So far as navy is concern, read some one year old news when navy chief had criticized the delay in Tejas Program and subsequently program was put on fast track.


NLCA is a running program whereas Akash mk.2 is still to take off where do you find the == ???

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Sagar G » 11 Jan 2015 18:33

pankajs wrote:In any case LOAL should then be available to HELINA/NAG.


HELINA is LOAL enabled and was meant to be such but AFAIK it isn't a requirement for NAG.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Thakur_B » 11 Jan 2015 19:27

Some of the munitions mentioned in the PDF have been reveled for the first time.

Also, if the new family of munitions (NFM) projects are different from MLPGM projects, we are in for a hell of a confusion and alphabet soup shower.

Gruthma - The name doesn't make sense, maybe an acronym of some sort.
Nipun - Dexterous
Vishal - Large/Magnanimous
Parth - Son of earth, another name for Arjun : From the pdf it appears to be a mine clearing munition.
Prachand - Severe : Anti tank mine.
Ulka - Comet : Used to be an air launched target, don't know what it is now.
Abha - Aura

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Karan M » 11 Jan 2015 20:02

Import lobby is going to sh!t bricks. Pretty much a huge chunk of our requirements over the next few decades being met locally.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Sagar G » 11 Jan 2015 20:12

^^^ It already is, the transformation of power at the center has happened at a very critical juncture to put it mildly we are extremely lucky.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Victor » 11 Jan 2015 20:49

Why are they revealing this stuff suddenly now?

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby shaun » 11 Jan 2015 20:55

^^^
or i should say allowed to reveal now ???

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Karan M » 11 Jan 2015 21:01

it was all known to a degree. the blind refused to see. what we have now are the details given out. the groundwork has been done over several years. stuff like high accuracy nav systems, seekers, radars doesnt come from a vacuum.

singha- if you are reading this, they even mention HAS - hardened a/c shelters! iirc you had wanted that eons ago.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Victor » 11 Jan 2015 21:01

How does it change anything. If they are getting more enthu from BJP, all the more reason to keep quiet.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Avarachan » 11 Jan 2015 21:02

Victor wrote:Why are they revealing this stuff suddenly now?


Because the world's current security architecture--which was constructed in the aftermath of WWII--is quite obviously falling apart. A new one will almost certainly be constructed over the next several years. India wants to make sure it plays a founding role in the new architecture. As such, it is necessary to signal to the other players that India now has top-tier capabilities and will no longer tolerate second-tier status.

Of course, the really advanced maal is probably still being hidden.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby pankajs » 11 Jan 2015 21:05

Page Numbered 95

The data link system has been successfully used in AD, Astra and HELINA missile development programme/projects. An integrated telemetry system comprising SCP, PCM encoder and transmitter has been developed for Astra mission and is ready for induction. Telemetry systems consisting of sensors, transducers, signal conditioning units, pulse code modulators, transmitters and antennae have been developed successfully and delivered for Agni 5, Agni 4, Astra and AAD missions.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Karan M » 11 Jan 2015 21:10

MMW Seeker: Configuration for LOAL operation has been completed and proven in HILS. Interfaces with OBC, INS and Telemetry were successfully established. Flight trial of PGM seeker range and angle tracking was established in MI-8 helicopter. Seeker is under productionisation for ATL.

Precision Guided Munitions
Captive flight test was held at Yelahanka, Bengaluru. Lock-on-after-launch algorithms and transfer
alignment have been proved.

- a MMW seeker in production - PGM noted

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Karan M » 11 Jan 2015 21:11

Avarachan wrote:Of course, the really advanced maal is probably still being hidden.


yes, those who track such stuff can read between the lines and see many programs not publicized. the strat programs and their sensors f.e.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Victor » 11 Jan 2015 21:15

IMHO, instead of "letting others know", it is a far better practice to SHOW them after the fact. The PSUs have built up an unfortunate reputation for trumpeting things and then failing to deliver. There's more to this than we know. There has to be a better reason for suddenly revealing these things than the hard Nationalist govt in charge.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby pankajs » 11 Jan 2015 21:19

Page *numbered* 91
Solid Fuel Ducted Ramjet Propulsion Technology
Project Solid Fuel Ducted Ramjet (SFDR) was started in May 2013 with the objective of developing state-of-the-art SFDR propulsion technology, which can operate at varying altitudes and speeds. The development and demonstration of SFDR propulsion system is a joint venture of DRDO and Russia.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Karan M » 11 Jan 2015 21:27

Victor wrote:IMHO, instead of "letting others know", it is a far better practice to SHOW them after the fact. The PSUs have built up an unfortunate reputation for trumpeting things and then failing to deliver. There's more to this than we know. There has to be a better reason for suddenly revealing these things than the hard Nationalist govt in charge.


most of the items being noted are in delivery or in advanced stages of development whose existence has been known before, and the indian resident & taxpayer deserves to know what is being made to counter the propaganda of vested interests in the media and elsewhere. truly classified programs are out of the purview.
Last edited by Karan M on 11 Jan 2015 21:30, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Karan M » 11 Jan 2015 21:30

pankajs wrote:Page *numbered* 91
Solid Fuel Ducted Ramjet Propulsion Technology
Project Solid Fuel Ducted Ramjet (SFDR) was started in May 2013 with the objective of developing state-of-the-art SFDR propulsion technology, which can operate at varying altitudes and speeds. The development and demonstration of SFDR propulsion system is a joint venture of DRDO and Russia.


wonder if this is brahmos-mini or some other program!

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby pankajs » 11 Jan 2015 21:41

Am no expert but me thinks this is a separate program .. check the Meteor. Just did a check to see if this tech was used on any missile and it turned up. Brahmos-mini should be current gen tech re-sized and re-packaged. This is next gen.

http://www.bayern-chemie.com/ramjet.htm
Meteor is the next generation Beyond Visual Range Air-to-Air Missile system (BVRAAM) that will revolutionise air-to-air combat in the 21st Century.

METEOR`s stunning performance is achieved from it’s advanced propulsion system, a solid fuel, variable flow ducted `Ramjet` rocket motor. This motor generates the missile with propulsive power all the way to target intercept and thus provides the largest “No-Escape-Zone” of any air-to-air missile system.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Karan M » 11 Jan 2015 22:40

you are right. i was thinking of brahmos hypersonic when i typed that but even that wouldn't fit.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Victor » 11 Jan 2015 22:46

Karan M wrote: the indian resident & taxpayer deserves to know what is being made to counter the propaganda of vested interests in the media and elsewhere. truly classified programs are out of the purview.

But this is exactly what I'm questioning. Don't Indian taxpayers deserve to be shown what has been made instead of what is being made? Specially when what you call "propaganda" comes from "vested interests" like the CAG, MoD and armed forces too?

Anyway, I look forward to the day when all of these techs are ready and fielded without delay. Our forces are almost nanga for now thanks to Saint Anthony, the pakistan defense minister.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Indranil » 12 Jan 2015 00:07

Don't worry Victor sahab,

They know what to reveal and what not to. An e-book like this passes many layers of vetting before it gets published (the information here is an year old). It is only for public consumptions like aam abduls, reporters and MPs. Those who need to know, inside India (legally and illegally) and outside (illegally) have way more knowledge.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby PratikDas » 12 Jan 2015 02:33

sivab wrote:http://www.drdo.gov.in/drdo/English/DRDO-a-glimpse-ebook.pdf

Agni Programme
India’s Intercontinental surface-to-surface ballistic missile Agni 5, capable of delivering different
warheads with high precision, was successfully launched in a repeat of the spectacular maiden launch
last year. This second launch of long range Agni 5 has been conducted to prove the consistency of
performance of all sub-systems from open rail mobile launcher. First missile ejection test was successfully
conducted from full-scale canister which proved cold launch capability for Agni
5 from actual Road Mobile
Launcher (RML). This test was conducted from facility identified for production of Agni missiles. The test
met all mission requirements. Deliverable missiles have been realised for Agni 1, Agni 2 and Agni 3 as
per Services requirements. Flight trials have been conducted successfully for Agni 1, Agni 2, Agni 3, Agni
5 and MET (MA5-01) :?:

I guess Saurav Jha visits BRF. He tweets that MET is Missile Ejection Test.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Karan M » 12 Jan 2015 03:04

Deleted by Moderator

Karan - you can choose to ignore posts made by someone rather than make such personal comments. - rohitvats.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Karan M » 12 Jan 2015 03:08

indranilroy wrote:Don't worry Victor sahab,

They know what to reveal and what not to. An e-book like this passes many layers of vetting before it gets published (the information here is an year old). It is only for public consumptions like aam abduls, reporters and MPs. Those who need to know, inside India (legally and illegally) and outside (illegally) have way more knowledge.


You are responding to a person with an agenda. Facts dont matter. That agenda is not the one which he bleats "defffffennnnceeee of India" but pure and simple buy American, be Americas nice little boy, with a few token considerations for the Rafale etc thrown in. Part of that agenda is also to propagandize against all Indian systems and programs using cherrypicked claims and djinn aeronautics. Any lie is good enough as long as the message remains on target. Any normal person would have thought ten times before putting out post after post based on absolute make believe "aerofizzics" and was called on it again and again.. nobody goes through such rubbish and deliberate fibbing misquoting other folks or repeating the same lines again and again, unless they are absolute dolts or have an agenda. Much the same shameless behavior as shown by the jounro dude in the CG thread. Such poorly researched agit prop claims have long been taking the forum quality down as its about consistent messaging for a clear aim.
A lot of the info above was already known whereas this poster used to disguise his ignorance behind rhetoric and claim India is doing nothing, is worthless. Now, truth is out, he spins it as some sort of "reveal" as if they had nothing before and only now we know this. Seriously, BR quality is heading for a toss when one see idiotic posts on topics by these chaps who know notjing about the topics they infest.
.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby member_28932 » 12 Jan 2015 08:12

Gagan wrote:Err whatever happened to Kali ?


I read that Kali 50000 (Yes Not 5000) is ready and expiremented in himalays.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Victor » 12 Jan 2015 08:40

Karan M wrote:
indranilroy wrote:Don't worry Victor sahab,

They know what to reveal and what not to. An e-book like this passes many layers of vetting before it gets published (the information here is an year old). It is only for public consumptions like aam abduls, reporters and MPs. Those who need to know, inside India (legally and illegally) and outside (illegally) have way more knowledge.


You are responding to a person with an agenda. Facts dont matter. That agenda is not the one which he bleats "defffffennnnceeee of India" but pure and simple buy American, be Americas nice little boy, with a few token considerations for the Rafale etc thrown in. Part of that agenda is also to propagandize against all Indian systems and programs using cherrypicked claims and djinn aeronautics. Any lie is good enough as long as the message remains on target. Any normal person would have thought ten times before putting out post after post based on absolute make believe "aerofizzics" and was called on it again and again.. nobody goes through such rubbish and deliberate fibbing misquoting other folks or repeating the same lines again and again, unless they are absolute dolts or have an agenda. Much the same shameless behavior as shown by the jounro dude in the CG thread. Such poorly researched agit prop claims have long been taking the forum quality down as its about consistent messaging for a clear aim.
A lot of the info above was already known whereas this poster used to disguise his ignorance behind rhetoric and claim India is doing nothing, is worthless. Now, truth is out, he spins it as some sort of "reveal" as if they had nothing before and only now we know this. Seriously, BR quality is heading for a toss when one see idiotic posts on topics by these chaps who know notjing about the topics they infest.
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Long meaningless verbose rambles with no basis in facts or rationale, just name calling and innuendo. I expect this type of response to be unique to internet pakis but I guess not. You get lost, troll.
Last edited by Indranil on 12 Jan 2015 08:57, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Both of you stop this. Or you both will be warned.


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