China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 02 Nov 2014 19:41

ALL excellent news.

Now India has a goal post to aim for.

#GreatRoIForAMCA

Vivek K · Post by **Vivek K** » 02 Nov 2014 20:02

Rao sahab, with IAF in a dog fight with HAL & ADA, you think there will be any more local aircraft development in India or like what happened to the Marut, we will kill local industry again and buy shiny new imported screw drivers from all and sundry?

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 02 Nov 2014 20:13

Yikes ........................ I thought we *all* were aware of the problems associated with fiddling while a city burns.

No?

Vivek K · Post by **Vivek K** » 02 Nov 2014 20:15

Great tangential response!

kmc_chacko · Post by **kmc_chacko** » 02 Nov 2014 21:46

NRao wrote:ALL excellent news.

Now India has a goal post to aim for.

#GreatRoIForAMCA

I want to hit a goal & not to a goal post.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 03 Nov 2014 00:36

MANNY K wrote:

Engine failure, or engine failure tests?

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 03 Nov 2014 03:53

China to construct new rail line in Tibet close to Arunachal Pradesh

China has approved construction of a new strategically important railway line in Tibet which would come close to the Indian border in Arunachal Pradesh, state media reported today.

China has approved the feasibility report for the construction of the railway linking Lhasa to Nyingchi in Tibet, the official Xinhua news agency reported.

This high altitude railway will be the second rail link to be built in Tibet after the Qinghai-Tibet Railway connecting Xining in neighbouring Qinghai province with Tibet's provincial capital Lhasa which became operational in 2006.

The plans were to construct linking Lhasa to Nyingchi in the east was announced in August. Nyingchi is located right on top of Arunachal, the nearest area to the borders.

In August this year, China inaugurated its extension of railway line in Tibet which come close to the Indian border in Sikkim besides borders of Nepal and Bhutan.

The 253-km railway line costing about USD 2.16 billion linked Tibet's provincial capital Lhasa with Xigaze, the second-largest city in the Himalayan region.

The railway expansion in Tibet will connect Nepal, Bhutan and India by 2020, official report here.

Today's official announcement about the construction of the new rail line came in the backdrop of India's plans to improve the road network along the border regions of Arunachal Pradesh, which China claims as Southern Tibet.

Reacting to India's plans to build 54 more border posts The Chinese military spokesman Yang Yujun said yesterday that India should shun moves that "may further complicate the situation" and do more to maintain peace in that area.

China and India have disputes over the eastern part of their border.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 03 Nov 2014 13:29

China successfully develops laser system to defend against drones, Xinhua reports - Japan Times

China has successfully tested a self-developed laser defense system against small-scale low-altitude drones, according to state media.

The laser defense system is capable of shooting down small aircraft within a two-km (1.2-mile) radius and can do so within five seconds of locating its target, the official Xinhua news agency said on Sunday, quoting a statement by the China Academy of Engineering Physics.

The academy is one of the drone defense system’s co-developers, Xinhua said.

The reported development comes as concerns about the country’s military preparedness are being raised in state media. A front page article in China’s official military newspaper last month said that weaknesses in military training posed a threat to the country’s ability to fight and win a war.

The paper, called the People’s Liberation Army (PLA) Daily, said in the same report that China’s military authorities had sent a document out to units detailing 40 weaknesses in current training methods.

President Xi Jinping has been pushing to strengthen the fighting ability of China’s 2.3 million-strong armed forces as they project power across disputed waters in the East and South China Seas. China has developed stealth jets and has built one aircraft carrier.

The country’s armed forces, the world’s largest, came under criticism earlier this year from serving and retired Chinese officers and state media, who questioned whether they were too corrupt to win a war.

According to Sunday’s Xinhua story, the drone defense system is designed to destroy small-scale drones flying within an altitude of 500 meters and at speeds below 50 meters per second.

“Intercepting such drones is usually the work of snipers and helicopters, but their success rate is not as high and mistakes with accuracy can result in unwanted damage,” Yi Jinsong, a manager involved with the project, was quoted as saying.

Viv S · Post by **Viv S** » 03 Nov 2014 18:58

indranilroy wrote:Engine failure, or engine failure tests?

Could it be two different engines? One WS-13 for testing and a RD-33/93 for backup.

member_28714 · Post by **member_28714** » 03 Nov 2014 19:08

kmc_chacko wrote:what is going on . . . . . .

All that glitters is not gold, as evidenced by ... the F 35. there is enough grapevine talk that the J-20 will not enter service, will rather be what T-50 was to PAKFA.

Viv S · Post by **Viv S** » 03 Nov 2014 19:30

George wrote:All that glitters is not gold, as evidenced by ... the F 35. there is enough grapevine talk that the J-20 will not enter service, will rather be what T-50 was to PAKFA.

The T-50 is (not 'was') the designation of the prototype and the PAK FA the name of the program.

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 03 Nov 2014 19:40

Viv S wrote:
George wrote:All that glitters is not gold, as evidenced by ... the F 35. there is enough grapevine talk that the J-20 will not enter service, will rather be what T-50 was to PAKFA.
The T-50 is (not 'was') the designation of the prototype and the PAK FA the name of the program.

It would have also helped if the aircraft pictured was actually the J-20

member_28714 · Post by **member_28714** » 03 Nov 2014 19:42

brar_w wrote:
Viv S wrote: The T-50 is (not 'was') the designation of the prototype and the PAK FA the name of the program.
It would have also helped if the aircraft pictured was actually the J-20

Ah look who is here. the well read one. I was referring to a post that was referring to a post which spoke also about the j 20. once again, stop assuming only you know your planes. The following line, genius.

The J-31 isn’t the only new Chinese aircraft to be spotted this month. Photos of the larger fourth-generation stealth fighter J-20, Airborne Early Warning and Control System aircraft KJ-500 and Y-20 large military transporter, reportedly conducting test flights, were published on a popular military forum on Saturday.

shows how much you read before shooting off your mouth

member_28714 · Post by **member_28714** » 03 Nov 2014 19:45

Viv S wrote:
George wrote:All that glitters is not gold, as evidenced by ... the F 35. there is enough grapevine talk that the J-20 will not enter service, will rather be what T-50 was to PAKFA.
The T-50 is (not 'was') the designation of the prototype and the PAK FA the name of the program.

err... neither was the j -20 designed to be just a prototype. but both will end up as one. either way whats your point? If you have one? But of course you would not have learned of the I 90 rebadged as the T-50, rebadged as the PAKFA. All with updates based on material science advances.

the russians used the T-50 learnings for the PAKFA, the chinese will do the same. brar here who is very well read will confirm the grapevine news byw.

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 03 Nov 2014 19:48

Whats your point with all this? That the J-20 is a prototype and the final production version would look a lot different? Thats been floating around for months if not years. Some claim it is similar to a YF22 yet others claim it is similar to AA1 (F-35). I guess there is no real way to know this. With he PAKFA program we know based on news reports that the Russians have a plan to build upon the T-50's currently flying. The degree to which the design is likely to change still remains an unknown but most will agree that the version we see now will at some point be handed over to the service and brought to the front lines. The same could very well happen with the J-20. China really doesn't need to match or exceed the F-22 or F-35 with these projects for them to be successful.

There is also no real way to confirm what China intended with the J-20. Was it a test bed for a 5th generation fighter? Was it a first pass at a production grade fifth generation fighter? Its not like they hold annual press conferences on these projects or release audited annual program assessments.

member_28714 · Post by **member_28714** » 03 Nov 2014 19:52

brar_w wrote:Whats your point with all this? That the J-20 is a prototype and the final production version would look a lot different? Thats been floating around for months if not years. Some claim it is similar to a YF22 yet others claim it is similar to AA1 (F-35). I guess there is no real way to know this. With he PAKFA program we know based on news reports that the Russians have a plan to build upon the T-50's currently flying. The degree to which the design is likely to change still remains an unknown but most will agree that the version we see now will at some point be handed over to the service and brought to the front lines. The same could very well happen with the J-20. China really doesn't need to match or exceed the F-22 or F-35 with these projects for them to be successful.

what did I say and where are you coming up with all this. follow the thread dude.

someone was surprised at the rate at which cheen fighters were coming out and I just pointed out that many of these programs were development. stop taking off on a tangent at the first chance you get. you would'nt if you had the patience to just read the reference.

member_28714 · Post by **member_28714** » 03 Nov 2014 19:54

brar_w wrote: There is also no real way to confirm what China intended with the J-20. Was it a test bed for a 5th generation fighter? Was it a first pass at a production grade fifth generation fighter? Its not like they hold annual press conferences on these projects or release audited annual program assessments.

who confirmed anything? Did I? Do you understand the phrase 'heard it through the grapevine'?

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 03 Nov 2014 19:56

But nothing here is really KNOWN to formulate a firm opinion. Most would agree that the J-20 will be in production and in front line service sometime in the future. I seriously doubt that the Chinese will ditch the J-20 and start development of something new. The gray area is the state of affairs i.e how far have they gone with development and SI. I think a Limited capability service entry of around 2022-2025 is not far fetched but thats just my opinion.

who confirmed anything? Did I? Do you understand the phrase 'heard it through the grapevine'?

I never stated that you tried to CONFIRM it.

I think i'll stop now before i get accused (again) of abusing you!

member_28714 · Post by **member_28714** » 03 Nov 2014 20:00

brar_w wrote:But nothing here is really KNOWN to formulate a firm opinion. Most would agree that the J-20 will be in production and in front line service sometime in the future. I seriously doubt that the Chinese will ditch the J-20 and start development of something new. The gray area is the state of affairs i.e how far have they gone with development and SI. I think a Limited capability service entry of around 2022-2025 is not far fetched but thats just my opinion.

who confirmed anything? Did I? Do you understand the phrase 'heard it through the grapevine'?
I never stated that you tried to CONFIRM it.

Its nice to see you wanting to be civilized in your response and not include something like this

which can only be a reflection of hot blood/youth.

So, yes, nothing is known. Which is why I said the J 20 itself may not make the production line and there may be a few more iterations. Developing a 5th gen was so easy then there would be fifth gen planes popping in every gully in pindi.

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 03 Nov 2014 20:06

Its nice to see you wanting to be civilized in your response and not include something like this which can only be a reflection of hot blood/youth

Yeah the Hot blood youth that goes around "abusing" people on internet forums

member_28714 · Post by **member_28714** » 03 Nov 2014 20:11

brar_w wrote:
Its nice to see you wanting to be civilized in your response and not include something like this which can only be a reflection of hot blood/youth
Yeah the Hot blood youth that goes around "abusing" people on internet forums

chief, unless you were born yesterday, condescension is abuse. take it whichever way you want. and this

is condescending

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 03 Nov 2014 20:13

Like I said in the relevant thread, report that post and let the moderators decide.

member_28714 · Post by **member_28714** » 03 Nov 2014 21:28

brar_w wrote:Like I said in the relevant thread, report that post and let the moderators decide.

no, I'd rather just be an a$$hole right back. I am happy with doing that.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 03 Nov 2014 21:39

George wrote:
no, I'd rather just be an a$$hole right back. I am happy with doing that.

You newbie you. Report to the kave kamplex for stribes

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 03 Nov 2014 21:41

China Airshow Will Unveil J-31

A Chinese airshow official has confirmed that China will unveil its stealthy J-31 fighter aircraft at China’s biggest commercial and defense airshow next week in Zhuhai, in the southern province of Guangdong near Hong Kong.

Known officially as the 10th China International Aviation and Aerospace Exhibition, the event will be held from Nov. 11-14. About 700 aviation companies and 120 aircraft will participate.

Built by Shenyang Aircraft, this will be the first public demonstration of the twin-engine J-31. The fighter is similar in configuration to the single-engine Lockheed F-35 stealth fighter. Chinese-language military blogs posted photographs of the J-31 practicing demonstration flights at Zhuhai last week.

The People’s Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF) will be exhibiting the JH-7A and J-10 fighters, Z-8KA helicopter, and the upgraded H-6M medium-range bomber capable of carrying cruise missiles. The Hongdu L-15 Falcon fighter trainer is not yet listed nor is there a press conference. Hongdu has made a special effort at other air shows in the Middle East and Asia to promote the aircraft.

There is also no listing for the Pakistan-built JF-17 fighter, which was at the 2012 airshow. However, Aviation Industry Corporation of China (AVIC) will exhibit the FC-1 fighter, which is a Chinese variant of the JF-17. The fighter is a joint program by Chengdu Aircraft and the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex.

The Russian-built Su-35 super-maneuverable fighter will be on display for the first time. China and Russia have been in negotiations for a deal on the fighter since 2006 and a signing may be possible in late November.

“As far as I understand now, there will be a contract for 24 aircraft plus some spare engines,” said Vassily Kashin, an expert on Russia’s arms trade with China at Moscow’s Centre for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies. “The negotiations on engine technology transfers are progressing separately, that is a different cooperation area.”

Built by the United Aircraft Corp, the aircraft is powered by the same engine fitted on the stealthy Russian T-50, the Saturn AL-117S, which is an upgraded variant of the AL-31FN. China already imports the AL-31FN from Russia for the single-engine Chengdu J-10 fighter.

Russia agreed to a deal to build Su-27 fighters in China in the 1990s, but China began producing an Su-27 copycat, dubbed the J-11 fighter, by Shenyang Aircraft. There are fears in Moscow that China will do the same with the Su-35, as well as the AL-117 engine for its J-20 stealth fighter.

Richard Bitzinger, a defense industry specialist at Singapore’s Rajaratnam School of International Studies, said Russia will “sell the engines that go into Chinese aircraft, but not the production technology.” He said it is unlikely Russia would transfer the technology to build these types of engines in China.

At the last minute, the South Korean Air Force canceled participation in the airshow. The Black Eagles aerobatic demonstration team flies nine supersonic T-50 Golden Eagle jet trainers built by Lockheed Martin and Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI). The South Korean Defense Ministry confirmed the decision on Thursday and understands US government fears that sensitive technology would be vulnerable to Chinese snooping.

This would have also made it the first time a US defense treaty ally in the region had participated in the Zhuhai airshow with military equipment. Asked to comment, Eric Schnaible, Lockheed Martin’s T-50 spokesman, said, “it would be inappropriate for us to do so.”

KAI signed a $420 million deal with the Philippines for 12 TA-50 light attack jets/lead-in fighter trainers in March. The upgraded variant of the TA-50 can carry air-to-air missiles and air-to-ground missiles. The Philippines and China are in dispute over islands in the South China Sea and there have been fears the standoffs could ignite military conflict.

Chinese UAV companies will also be profiling their platforms and equipment. AVIC will exhibit the Tianyi-1 (Sky Wing), Yilong-1 (Pterodactyl), and Haixunzhe (Sea Patroller).

Robert Michelson, a UAV specialist at Millennial Vision, said the Sky Wing and Sea Patroller are “designed for potential military applications, or to test concepts on an unmanned platform.”

The Pterodactyl started out as a surveillance and aerial reconnaissance platform, “but as with the General Atomics Predator, which was obviously the inspiration for the design, the Pterodactyl has grown to be fitted with air-to-surface weapons for use in unmanned combat aerial vehicle scenarios.”

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 03 Nov 2014 21:50

George, your information is way off and your posts are borderline trolling. If you don't mend your ways quickly, there is fire coming your way.

chiru · Post by **chiru** » 03 Nov 2014 21:57

Viv S wrote:
indranilroy wrote:Engine failure, or engine failure tests?
Could it be two different engines? One WS-13 for testing and a RD-33/93 for backup.

I think the starboard engine is an RD-93, visually it looks like it.

The first flight of j-31 was with rd-93, they seem to be testing the ws-13 on the port side and in other pics both the engines seem to be ws-13s. so they are transitioning to ws-13's.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 03 Nov 2014 22:05

Viv S wrote:
indranilroy wrote:Engine failure, or engine failure tests?
Could it be two different engines? One WS-13 for testing and a RD-33/93 for backup.

May be. But there is no reason for such great asymmetry in the throat of both the engines in identical conditions. To me, the starboard engine looks powered off.

member_20292 · Post by **member_20292** » 03 Nov 2014 23:37

to me it looks like a fake photo

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 04 Nov 2014 09:50

AW&ST:J-20 Stealth Fighter Design Balances Speed And Agility

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 07 Nov 2014 07:44

'tis a thing.

member_28756 · Post by **member_28756** » 07 Nov 2014 08:02

Shreeman wrote:

'tis a thing.

Hmmm its definetly a Yakhont/Brahmos looks like Natasha been selling to the otherside too. I guess money talk, cant say that I am surprised.

member_28756 · Post by **member_28756** » 07 Nov 2014 08:52

Looks like its for export.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 07 Nov 2014 10:10

it seems to match the dimension of brahmos. shorter and thinner than the massive Granit.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 07 Nov 2014 10:57

I have a mango man doubt gurus. While lizard can spend huge amounts - can it truly build a 5th gen AC? I mean tech wise has it reached that level? That too in such a short time? That too two ACs at once? One wonders what is the extent of Bear help also.

member_28756 · Post by **member_28756** » 07 Nov 2014 11:04

Singha wrote:it seems to match the dimension of brahmos. shorter and thinner than the massive Granit.

If it looks like Brahmos, walk like Brahmos, then its a Brahmos. Looks like Natahsa let them modified Yakhont into their own "CX-1". Really dumb, now the lizard will export this thing and competes against Russian Yakhont and Brahmos.

Jaeger · Post by **Jaeger** » 07 Nov 2014 12:33

Manny K I read on some forum that this is the rejected competitor to the YJ-12. Apparently this one lost out because of its terrible CEP. However, it's also compatible with the M-20 SRBM TEL, so its part of the export package. What else can you tell us about this? Thanks.

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 07 Nov 2014 12:49

Quite a lot of pictures coming in from Zuhai - https://twitter.com/hashtag/Zhuhai14?src=hash
From https://twitter.com/alert5/status/530509571698491392

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 07 Nov 2014 17:35

China-Japan reach an agreement to agree to disagree on their island issues - with intent to deescalate the situation.

Victor · Post by **Victor** » 07 Nov 2014 19:04

That 'thing' is almost twice the size of Brahmos. Does it look like it can fit in the belly of a Su-30?