China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Postby VinodTK » 11 Aug 2015 03:06

Top Chinese general sentenced to death for graft
Beijing: A top Chinese military general, who led an opulent lifestyle, was, on Monday, given a suspended death sentence, the first conviction of about 40 high-level army officials currently under investigation as part of President Xi Jinping’s high-profile campaign against graft.

Gu Junshan, former deputy head of the General Logistics Department of the Chinese People’s Liberation Army, was found guilty of embezzlement, accepting bribes, misuse of state funds, bribery and abuse of power.

He has been deprived of his political rights for life and had all his personal assets confiscated, according to a statement from the court. Gu was also stripped of his rank of lieutenant general, and all the illicit funds and materials involved will be confiscated, the statement said, adding that the military procuratorate had added the charge of bribery during the trial.

Besides owning a vast properties, his home in Henan province modelled on China's former imperial palace Forbidden City with several gold art pieces or statues.

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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Postby member_28756 » 21 Aug 2015 03:01

http://freebeacon.com/national-security ... -warheads/



China Tests New Long-Range Missile with Two Guided Warheads

Latest DF-41 flight test indicates deployment near

BY: Bill Gertz
August 18, 2015 5:00 am


China conducted a flight test this month of its newest long-range missile that U.S. intelligence agencies say lofted two independently-targeted simulated nuclear warheads, according to defense officials.

The launch of the DF-41 road-mobile missile Aug. 6 was the fourth time the new intercontinental ballistic missile (ICBM) has been test-fired in three years, and indicates that the weapon capable of hitting U.S. cities with nuclear warheads is nearing deployment.

The DF-41, with a range of between 6,835 miles and 7,456 miles, is viewed by the Pentagon as Beijing’s most potent nuclear missile and one of several new long-range missiles in development or being deployed.


The Pentagon has said it expects the new missile to become operational as early as this year.

Deployment of the DF-41 also could coincide with China’s first patrols, slated to begin this year, of submarines armed with nuclear-tipped JL-2 missiles.

The Aug. 6 test is viewed as significant by U.S. intelligence agencies because it confirmed the DF-41’s multiple-warhead capability, said defense officials familiar with analyses of the test.

Rick Fisher, a senior fellow at the International Assessment and Strategy Center, said the repeated flight tests indicate the DF-41 is “nearing operational status.”

“The mobile and solid-fueled DF-41 will be the second MIRV-equipped ICBM to enter PLA Second Artillery Corps service after the currently deployed, liquid-fueled and silo-launched DF-5B,” Fisher said.



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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Postby member_28756 » 22 Aug 2015 15:50

http://freebeacon.com/national-security ... e-vehicle/


China Conducts Fifth Test of Hypersonic Glide Vehicle

Maneuvering missile takes evasive actions


BY: Bill Gertz
August 21, 2015 5:40 pm

China this week carried out another test of a new high-tech hypersonic glide vehicle, an ultra high-speed missile designed to deliver nuclear weapons and avoid defenses.

The latest test of what the Pentagon calls the Wu-14 hypersonic glide vehicle was carried out from the Wuzhai missile test range in central China. The test was judged successful, according to defense officials familiar with details of the event.

Additionally, officials said the glide vehicle, which travels along the edge of the earth’s atmosphere, demonstrated a new capability: evasive actions.

U.S. intelligence agencies have been tracking the Wu-14 since for over a year and have gained valuable insights into the weapon, the officials said.

No additional details were provided on the maneuvering activities of the Wu-14. However, the evasive actions bolstered suspicions that China is building the missile with capabilities designed to defeat U.S. defenses.

Current U.S. defenses are designed to track missiles that travel in predictable flight paths and are unable to counter maneuvering warheads and glide vehicles.

The latest Wu-14 test took place Wednesday.

It was the fifth test of the glide vehicle and the second since June.

The weapon is launched as the last stage of a missile that reaches speeds of around Mach 10, or 10 times the speed of sound—around 7,680 miles per hour.

Military analysts said the Chinese test schedule indicates that China may be close to deploying the high priority weapon.

Earlier flight tests took place this year on June 7 and last year on Jan. 9, Aug. 7 and Dec. 2

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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Postby vasu raya » 23 Aug 2015 17:10

Under water spying device found in South China Sea: China

Beijing: has recovered an underwater robot in the shape of a torpedo in the disputed South China Sea which officials claim was a foreign spy device capable of taking pictures and satellite communication.

When Huang Yunlai from Hainan province found a one-meter- long, torpedo-like device while fishing three years ago, he took photos of it and informed the province's National Security Bureau immediately.

It is now confirmed that the unmanned underwater machine, disguised to look like a torpedo, is an intelligence device capable of taking pictures with fiber-optic and satellite communication, state-run CCTV reported.

It was secretly placed in the water by a foreign country to obtain information on the Chinese navy fleet's operations at sea, it said.

Experts worried that the acquired information may have been sent back and that there could be many other similar devices that have not been detected in the water, which pose "great hidden dangers" to information security in the South China Sea.


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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Postby UlanBatori » 23 Aug 2015 23:50

the unmanned underwater machine, disguised to look like a torpedo,
:rotfl:

Surely it must have been launched from torpedo tubes, to take nekkid pictures of Chinese Politburo members swimming.

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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Postby Rahul M » 24 Aug 2015 00:20

why would you disguise something as a torpedo ?

makes as much sense as went under cover disguised as a secret agent.

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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Postby Manish_P » 24 Aug 2015 14:37

:D Must be in line with their typical style

What they probably wanted to say was that it is shaped like a torpedo

Which makes good sense since the torpedo shape would be one of the more aero..hydrodynamic shape for underwater activities

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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Postby Manish_P » 24 Aug 2015 15:06

Incidentally just last month there was this bit of news (Which Philip had also mentioned in a post on 21st July)

Confirmed: US Navy Launches Underwater Drone From Sub

and the drone launched was of the type - REMUS 600

which is shaped like

Image

An indian AUV - MAYA AUV

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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Postby UlanBatori » 30 Aug 2015 17:01

Pakistani AUV
But we digress. Most troubling report is that Wong Wei Photoshop Inc has developed a hypersonic cruise missile. The launch photo seems photoshopped all right, the length is far too much for column-buckling safety. The warhead may be a hypersonic aerodynamic vehicle.
BTW, "The Diplomat dot com" appears to be 400% PLA-run site? May need a few more diplomatic vijits.

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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Postby Singha » 03 Sep 2015 15:52

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=15&v=TCfdGzXPN_w

this a must watch - the huge chinese mil parade that took place in beijing today. commentary is in english.

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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Postby Singha » 03 Sep 2015 15:54

many of the items are on public display for first time.

close to 45 WZ10 were flying together in 5 wedges.

DF-15C
DF-16
DF-26 IRBM
DF-21D ASBM
DF-31A
DF-10A (CJ10 GLCM)
the old silo based DF5 is so big it needs two trucks to carry
YJ-xx
HHQ naval SAM
HQ=10 SAM
huge number of J-10 in many echelons
JH-7
J-8
H-6
KJ2000
J-11
J-15 (with arrester hooks down)
balance beam Y8
round dish Y8
H-6 tanker

70,000 white pigeons were released.

initial commentary was all about how many japanese they killed...around 70% of total WW2 japan losses it was said.


no DF-41 was shown


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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Postby Austin » 03 Sep 2015 16:13

Walk the Walk: China Backs Up Talk of Peace With Substantive Military Cuts

http://sputniknews.com/asia/20150903/10 ... z3kfttd1qA

In a speech ahead of the parade marking the 70th anniversary of Japan's surrender and the conclusion of the Second World War on Thursday, Chinese President Xi Jinping made a surprise announcement, pledging to reduce the size of China's armed forces by 300,000 personnel, and vowing that his country is committed to a path of peaceful development.

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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Postby NRao » 03 Sep 2015 16:19

The reduction was planned. Besides, it now gives them a better opportunity to build a solid AF and a Navy. Something they could not earlier.

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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Postby member_22539 » 03 Sep 2015 16:26

^As expected, their focus is the sea and air, where they face the Americans and their allies, rather than the Indo-China border, where we are raising new battle formations. This will hurt them when the time comes and the want to "teach a lesson" to India. Might end up that they will get taught a lesson themselves.

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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Postby Singha » 03 Sep 2015 16:41

they are comfortable on india border. far superior logistics have been built on their side. they already have fieled far CJ10, area defence SAMs, WZ10, tibet railway, masses of MLRS and tube artillery, x-terrain golf carts

we have protos, plans, and lots of big talk with not much on the ground.

anything that can scare the bigger dog (khan) is also useful against us. for instance DF-21D launched from yunnan could target indian ships right in the bay of bengal if OTH radar, high alt divine eagle drone or trios of naval elint sats could generate target info - imagine the shattering surprise it would be if a ship sailing harmlessly north of the andaman were gutted by the df21d dropping in from the edge of space.

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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Postby NRao » 03 Sep 2015 16:52

This reduction improves their efficiency - planned.

Nothing "peace"ful about this move. On the contrary it is a deadly move. It gets rid of rotted wood, unlike in the services of other nations (US, as an example). And it provides a means to reroute resources to better usage. You should see a highly streamlined, focused, highly trained and properly armed force.

That title is highly biased - something to be expected (not a knock on them) from that source.

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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Postby Austin » 03 Sep 2015 16:54

I can just imagine when chinese stock maket goes down and the entire world gets affected by it , even any plans of war with China would put first the economy in recession , collapsing the bond market of many countries , just these things would deter war then war itself . Its now a perfect case of China sneezes and world catches cold

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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Postby Singha » 03 Sep 2015 17:03

supplicants and allies from all over CAR region, Putinji, ethiopia, south africa (zumaji) were all in attendance. small marching contingents also came from 17 nations.

first half hour was spent berating and heckling japan in that video. they sure remember the japanese atrocities very well - unlike our sikulars who want to sweep sultanate and british/portugese atrocities under the rug.

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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Postby NRao » 03 Sep 2015 18:07

Said this before, China's eco is not as solid as advertised. Others have caught a fever because of their greed, more than basics of economics.

On their armed forces, they will be funded, with a goal of getting what they want without going to war. Time is not important to them. So, this so called backing from building islands, is pure BS.

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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Postby member_22539 » 03 Sep 2015 18:47

Singha wrote:they are comfortable on india border. far superior logistics have been built on their side. they already have fieled far CJ10, area defence SAMs, WZ10, tibet railway, masses of MLRS and tube artillery, x-terrain golf carts

we have protos, plans, and lots of big talk with not much on the ground.

anything that can scare the bigger dog (khan) is also useful against us. for instance DF-21D launched from yunnan could target indian ships right in the bay of bengal if OTH radar, high alt divine eagle drone or trios of naval elint sats could generate target info - imagine the shattering surprise it would be if a ship sailing harmlessly north of the andaman were gutted by the df21d dropping in from the edge of space.


All of this doesn't replace boots on the ground. Having infrastructure is all well and fine, but how are they going acclimatize their soldiers (all spotless, polished, untested, govt job holding, obese little emperors) while they rush them on their spectacular infrastructure? Its not like they are ready to fight right off the train/truck/bus/whatever. Its not like the Tibetan plateau is like the city garbage dump. Like their Segway borne special forces during the Olympics, its more show than substance mostly.

As for their fabled ding dong aircraft carrier killer, let them actually successfully test one before we start dhoti shivering. All this tracking is easier said then done, not to mention that the warhead itself will be blind and deaf during the reentry, unable to use any telemetry provided or use any sensor that it has. This is all the more suspicious since khan is just doing public dramas of dhoti shivering and getting money for ABM (which has more important realistic uses), rather than developing such a system themselves.

All of this does not mean I take China lightly and view the latest reduction a real step back in their war readiness, in fact, I consider it the opposite, since they are such a bloated force, which could be said about us as well, but mountains eat up men like nothing else.

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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Postby brar_w » 03 Sep 2015 18:59

Singha wrote:they are comfortable on india border. far superior logistics have been built on their side. they already have fieled far CJ10, area defence SAMs, WZ10, tibet railway, masses of MLRS and tube artillery, x-terrain golf carts

we have protos, plans, and lots of big talk with not much on the ground.

anything that can scare the bigger dog (khan) is also useful against us. for instance DF-21D launched from yunnan could target indian ships right in the bay of bengal if OTH radar, high alt divine eagle drone or trios of naval elint sats could generate target info - imagine the shattering surprise it would be if a ship sailing harmlessly north of the andaman were gutted by the df21d dropping in from the edge of space.


Some of these things are promising yet others are useless or practically quite predictable and of limited utility. They want to mount a UHF and X band combo on an unmanned, non-stealthy, emitting drone and use it to set pickets? Well the UHF side requires huge power, and the X band does so as well if you are going to use it for wide area surveillance. So how exactly would you provide a lot of KW to detect stealth? This was what did the US Sensor Craft Concepts (the ones that were released to the public anyway) and the enabling technologies were deemed to take at least 15-20 years (around 2030-2040) to develop such as miniaturized electronics, high power generation, embedded sensors (not sensors embedded into structures but curved sensors baked right into the structures (even modern AESA's haven't been able to allow those yields). You put all that in a questionable HALE platform that isn't survivable and you'll have plenty of ARH missiles headed your way..The IAF (or anyone else) can easily counter that UAV by developing long range ARH/HOJ missiles and just jamming certain bandwidths.

All this UHF and VHF talk is a very good thing for those that have stealth and those like the IAF that are planning on getting it starting fairly soon (PAKFA, AMCA, AURA). If you force your opponent to operate and invest more in the VHF and UHF domain you are on the right track..That part of the EM spectrum is hard to master, hard to develop a kill chain on (practically impossible to target using those frequencies alone) and they are much easier to defeat. An average VHF AESA is going to be many times the size and cost of an L band , S band or X band unit and on top of that many times harder to setup and make mobile. Thats what you target with a saturated attack of Nirbhay missiles...Its those gallium nitride enabled smaller X,S and even L band units (that can still perform as well as larger units of the past) that can be kept hidden, have huge number of decoys designed for and made very mobile and most importantly can guide a weapon to target that are the real pain in the rear!!

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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Postby Singha » 03 Sep 2015 20:17

you are all perfectly right. but what I meant was India is not about to proactively go and upset the status quo on the border by grabbing territory etc . so long as they keep needling us below a threshold and do not start a kargil, India is a status quo power and hence they can safely conclude its better to pump more funds into navy and AF (which is dual role).

what they are cooking up is enough to pose a big challenge to japan and overwhelm anyone else in the south china sea. I am assuming soko will never get into a fight because noko is a "TSP of the east" kept to put soko under pressure.

philipines , indonesia, thailand, laos, cambodia, malaysia , singapore - they do not have any defence pact with US except marginally singapore. they cannot handle the dragon for sure. vietnam is fierce enough but tiny naval/af in comparison.

the fly in ointment could be USN staging a return to subic bay as a CVN+SSN base...its about 1000 km from sanya so carriers could clear harbour and immediately start launching full deckloads. :rotfl:

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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Postby member_22539 » 03 Sep 2015 20:25

^I don't think anyone is disputing that. :)

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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Postby ldev » 03 Sep 2015 21:07

China's rising military threat- why India should worry

Why should India worry? First, China’s annual military budget of 890 billion yuan or roughly $145 billion, is over three times that of India’s (2.47 lakh crore or roughly $40 billion).
Second, China is not only the world’s second largest military spender, its military spending is also growing at a fast clip. China’s defence budget for 2015, grew by 10.1%. It has grown in double digits almost every year for over almost two decades now.


As Richard Bitzinger has pointed out in ‘Foreign Affairs’, “this level of spending is all the more remarkable given where China started. In 1997, Chinese military expenditures totaled only about $10 billion, roughly on par with Taiwan and significantly less than that of Japan and South Korea.” Since then, Chinese defence spending has “almost always outpaced GDP growth. Between 1998 and 2007, China’s economy grew at an average annual rate of 12.5 percent, while its defense spending increased at an average of 15.9 percent per annum.


In fact, the exact money being spent by China on military modernization may actually be much more since the official government defence budget covers only a proportion of China’s total military spending. There is little transparency in the budget, which is basically disaggregated into just three major categories: personnel, training and maintenance, and equipment.

The Stockholm Peace Research Institute estimates that total Chinese military spending is about 55 per cent higher than the total central and local defence budget. For example, SIPRI’s estimate for China’s military spending in 2012 was 1049 billion yuan ($166 billion), compared to the official defence budget of 669 billion yuan.


Flanked by Putin, South Korean President Park Geun-hye and UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon at the iconic Tiananmen Gate, President Xi emphasized in his V-J Day speech that “the experience of war makes people value peace even more.” “China will never seek hegemony”, he continued, “China will never seek to expand and will never inflict the tragedies it suffered in the past upon others.”
Fine words those. But China’s neighbours, including New Delhi, are carefully watching its actual military spending and actions as much as the soaring rhetoric.

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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Postby DavidD » 03 Sep 2015 21:26

That analysis is predicated on the idea that China's defense spending "almost always outpaced GDP growth", which is completely false. GDP growth are reported in real terms, after taking into consideration of inflation, whereas defense spending is reported in gross terms, before counting inflation. If you look at defense spending as share of GDP, China has consistently stayed at around 2% for the past 20 years or so. You can look it up if you don't believe me.

Image

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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Postby DavidD » 03 Sep 2015 21:33

Key revelations during the parade:

1) Reduction in PLA size by 300,000, to a total of 2 million personnel. Rumor has it that it's part of a major restructuring of the PLA.
2) DF-21D confirmed to be an anti-ship ballistic missile. It's been talked about for a long time, but finally there's official confirmation
3) DF-26 revealed to be able to attack medium to large surface vessels as well. This one was out of the left field, everyone thought it was just a new, road-mobile IRBM, but no one knew that it had anti-ship capabilities as well.
4) DF-5B with MIRV capability. Kinda like DF-21D, it's nice to have official confirmation, but nothing terribly new.

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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Postby ldev » 03 Sep 2015 21:47

>>If you look at defense spending as share of GDP, China has consistently stayed at around 2% for the past 20 years or so. You can look it up if you don't believe me.

Any which way you slice it, from an Indian threat perspective, Chinese military expendtures have consistently outpaced Indian expenditures. If you take 1997 as the base year, China was at approxmately $10 billion, India was at Rs 36,000 crores which is also about $10 billion, converted at the then exchange rate of about Rs 34/1US$. Fast forward to today, India is at $40 billion and China is at $145-$165 billion depending on which Chinese figure you believe. So from about parity with Indian military expenditure back then, today the Chinese are at 3.5x-4x.

At the article says, forget the rhetoric, watch the capability being built.

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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Postby member_23370 » 03 Sep 2015 21:54

Nobody doubted DF-21 was supposedly anti ship. People just doubt its capability to hit any ship that is not stationary.

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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Postby JE Menon » 03 Sep 2015 23:01

No chance in the foreseeable future that the US is about to lie down and die I think. China is building up, but so are others around it. Partly helped by Chinese behaviour. The troop cut business is losing fat. No one is fooled. And in any case who the hell is going to verify?

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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Postby NRao » 04 Sep 2015 00:02

And in any case who the hell is going to verify?


No need to verify. They need it just to survive. The PLA is one of the most inefficient entities.

But, from their PoV, this is a great move in all respects.

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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Postby kit » 04 Sep 2015 00:14

Winning a war without actually fighting. .wasn't this parade all about it ?

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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Postby member_28756 » 04 Sep 2015 11:01

Singha wrote:many of the items are on public display for first time.

close to 45 WZ10 were flying together in 5 wedges.

DF-15C
DF-16
DF-26 IRBM
DF-21D ASBM
DF-31A
DF-10A (CJ10 GLCM)
the old silo based DF5 is so big it needs two trucks to carry
YJ-xx
HHQ naval SAM
HQ=10 SAM
huge number of J-10 in many echelons
JH-7
J-8
H-6
KJ2000
J-11
J-15 (with arrester hooks down)
balance beam Y8
round dish Y8
H-6 tanker

70,000 white pigeons were released.

initial commentary was all about how many japanese they killed...around 70% of total WW2 japan losses it was said.


no DF-41 was shown
DF 41 is almost operational but not there yet.

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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Postby Singha » 04 Sep 2015 16:34

the DF-16 looks about equivalent to our Agni-1. it will eventually replace the DF-11 and DF-15.

net production of df11+15 is estimated at 1000 at present but older lots of df11 have probably long been retired.

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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Postby member_28756 » 04 Sep 2015 16:38

Oh btw, the round dish Y-8 is probably the KJ 500 which is a Y-9.

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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Postby member_28756 » 04 Sep 2015 17:15

Singha wrote:the DF-16 looks about equivalent to our Agni-1. it will eventually replace the DF-11 and DF-15.

net production of df11+15 is estimated at 1000 at present but older lots of df11 have probably long been retired.


Lots of interesting info

http://www.janes.com/article/53896/chin ... ber-parade

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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Postby Chandragupta » 04 Sep 2015 17:23

Wasn't there an article on orbat.com which said IA is effectively larger than PLA in terms of actual fighting troops?

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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Postby Surya » 04 Sep 2015 21:20

someone in Cheen smoked some good ones or a video game maker got decided to reverse the good badd guy routine - and of course this will make Phillip want lots of bombers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=120&v=ULtzgE9mJD8


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