West Asia News and Discussions (YEMEN, gulf)

Bhurishravas · Post by **Bhurishravas** » 10 Jun 2017 03:28

JE Menon,
There will be no quoting you anymore. And i know you are a busy man so may not be reading all the posts.
I argued elsewhere that India must be courting good relations with Saudi Arabia specifically because it is one of Pakistan`s fourfathers. India should step into every breach there is between the Pakis and its benefactors and also attempt to create breaches to exploit.

B.

Bhurishravas · Post by **Bhurishravas** » 10 Jun 2017 03:40

^^ So we all thought till 2015. After Pakis refused to join Sunni NATO, Doval got a call from Dubai stating UAE was interested in improving relations with India, A few weeks later Modi was visiting Dubai and now we are filling up our strategic reserves with Emirati oil.
King salman has been courting India. Has called Modi twice I think on phone. Also has expelled some Indian jihadi from Saudi. India as always will maintain neutrality and act silly and wont explore or exploit openings. Not only are we militarily docile, we are the same way foreign policy wise too.
Status Quoist. Jaise chal raha hai, chalne do.

Remember, UAE was one of three countries to recognise Pakistani baby Taliban as ruler of Afghanistan in 1997. So close were the ties.

Bhurishravas · Post by **Bhurishravas** » 10 Jun 2017 03:52

In 1980s China took the plunge and opened its economy,despite being communist. Now their economy is ten times ours. First movers advantage.
What if we open the economy? Amreekis will take over. Someone would have said then. So we did nothing.
We will only copy others. We will never take the initiative. We will not even attempt anything.
What if Iran gets angry. What if Saudis dont respond to our overtures.
Do nothing and sit tight on our asses. Economy, Military, foreign policy. Do nothing. Sit tight. We are either not big enough or someone will get angry or there are too many risks.
Great.

Bhurishravas · Post by **Bhurishravas** » 10 Jun 2017 03:56

Pakistan has brotherly relations with SA. Still we dont see Iran allowing India any special privilege in any field. Hell, Pakistan is milking Amreeka and China at the same time while American ships are floating between china and Taiwan.
But we shouldnt attempt anything. Sab naraaj ho jaayenga bhaiya.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 10 Jun 2017 04:00

Someone has to be coordinating big-time with international connections, for the "ISIS"/"AQ" etc to conduct operations on such a scale. Getting, channeling and using funding on a HUGE scale, buying the right weapons, building IEDs and VIEDs and soosai vests, getting the tanks and ATGMs across borders and to point locations in deserts and urban areas, getting earthmoving and digging equipment, tunnel-building, slave-trading, oil trading...

and being able to start fresh conflagrations every 2 months or so.

Think of the sheer scale. Who and where can these be, except (a) KSA (b) London (c) DupleeCity? I think the second two are ruled out in this case because they can't keep such things secret. And I am sure the above logic has occurred to Vlad Putin, as well as all Intel chiefs and their flunkies all over the world. So why are they still surviving?

Bhurishravas · Post by **Bhurishravas** » 10 Jun 2017 04:07

Are Baba, our economy opened up after the train left. i was pointing at the lack of initiative, which seems to be a desi trait in every field and not at economic issue only.
We will know what we get or what we dont when we start probing things. Not by only writing letters in nice English like our dhakkan diplomats aka Tharoors do. When you talk, then you find out if there is anything to gain. When you call the ambassador and tell them, we will support you if we get this this and this. If not, lets carry on like we are.
But nope. Lets sit tight.

Bhurishravas · Post by **Bhurishravas** » 10 Jun 2017 04:17

Who cares about reputation?! What will we achieve with reputation?! What is this reputation reputation bullshit?!
We should actually start not with Maldives but with Tamil Nadu and see if Karunanidhi is willing to play ball. Then we will have less to lose.

I cant bear this anymore. Sorry. Goodnight

ArjunPandit · Post by **ArjunPandit** » 10 Jun 2017 04:23

^^^very aptly put srijoy baba. Another perspective that our policy mandarins should keep a laser focus on is, the role of ME nations in future war with pakistan and the question of pakistan itself. Historically, porkies have been helped materially by these nations in all the wars. The best we can hope and aim is they would stay out of our way when it hits the fan

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 10 Jun 2017 05:39

Exactly what action is being suggested, in the name of Decisiveness? Send troops to Qatar to invade? Or protect against invasion? Or set up a refugee camp for desis?
Seems like best service would be to send a few crates of Account Opening Forms and Know Your Customer Forms and FATCA forms to get the Qataris and Saudis to open up accounts in Indus Ind "Bank". That will keep them tied up in frustration for the next decade.
Maybe JetAir and Air India can take up the slack in routes and offer

Kochi - Doha Via Riyadh and Dubai: Thrice Daily!

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 10 Jun 2017 06:41

A civil action to restore peace and arrest all islamic radicals in maldives? Based off of the jailed ex president nasheeds plight? Followed by a treaty keeping our interests in mind and male govt declaring void all deals with china.

If we cannot handle a panama or grenada like amrika did lets just stop talking of international power plays.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 10 Jun 2017 07:45

Mauritus has also jumped on the Saudi wagon. For Maldives, one needs an InterPol warrant against the PM and Chief Justice, if the allegations by Al Jazeera have any merit. I watched that whole video from AJ, and remain totally unconvinced. Whatever else, the islands look posh and modern, compared to Indian infrastructure. They must be doing something right. Yeah, the PM takes a percentage, and apparently they have been selling off the small islands to phoren developers. But look at what those developers have done: turned them into absolutely stunning resorts. And in a few years rising ocean levels will have inundated them, so no wonder the land prices are quite cheap.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 10 Jun 2017 10:21

Bhurishravas wrote:JE Menon,
There will be no quoting you anymore. And i know you are a busy man so may not be reading all the posts.
I argued elsewhere that India must be courting good relations with Saudi Arabia specifically because it is one of Pakistan`s fourfathers. India should step into every breach there is between the Pakis and its benefactors and also attempt to create breaches to exploit.

B.

Don't get me wrong. Saying that Saudi is the main sponsor of terrorism is not the same as saying that we should not have good relations with Saudi Arabia. I have always argued for good relations with all the GCC states. No one can complain about that, least of all the GCC states which similarly maintain good relations despite their differences of perception about terrorism with the US, China, the EU members and even increasingly Russia. Why should we be an exception by having to select between them?

We should also maintain reasonable links with Pakistan, just like Pakistan maintains good relations with Afghanistan.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 10 Jun 2017 10:50

OK, on the trade with Saudi Arabia front - just some unverifiable info.

I inquired as to why our trade with Saudi (exports) was less than with Malaysia, and the response was that a significant chunk goes as re-export from Dubai. This info, i.e. the precise amount out of Dubai, is not public as far as I know. But this explains why the UAE with a population about a sixth of Saudi imports six times more than Saudi from India. Why is it re-exported from Dubai rather than directly sent to Saudi? No idea, but possibly for (a) consolidated shipping - i.e. bundling of many different products together in a single container-load; (b) import tax reasons if value is added in the free zones of Dubai, and (c) Saudi businessmen are much more comfortable dealing with Indian (or Arab/Iranian) businessmen in Dubai than with Indian businessmen in India.

That export figure at the commerce ministry site, therefore, is not a reflection of the real full export relationship with Saudi. We cannot make any valuable analysis based on it. But that does not mean we are in surplus with Saudi either. Would love to find out.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 10 Jun 2017 12:00

I thought that Qatar was getting Rafales instead? Trump yet again bullsh*ts about Qatar being the Arab terror godfather,while his Wahaabi Saudi bumchums plotting their next terror attacks in the west,are hysteric with laughter. As an anlayst said,"its all about gas".Qatar's immense gas reserves have given it a massive fortune,the envy of bankrupt KSA. It covets Qatar's wealth,and wants to gain control over it by any means. With the "Duck" in the White House,ready to spur them on if they but hundreds of billions of weaponry from the US,the KSA Sunni-alliance is off the blocks for a Qatari take-away.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... iddle-east

Gulf crisis: Trump escalates row by accusing Qatar of sponsoring terror
Trump says Qatar ‘has been a funder of terrorism at a very high level’
Rex Tillerson had earlier urged Saudi Arabia and allies to ease blockade
Trump said: ‘We had a decision to make: do we take the easy road, or do we finally take a hard but necessary action? We have to stop the funding of terrorism.’

David Smith and Sabrina Siddiqui in Washington and Peter Beaumont in Doha
Friday 9 June 2017 22.01
Donald Trump has accused Qatar of sponsoring terrorism at the highest levels, in an extraordinary escalation of the diplomatic row with one America’s most important military partners in the Middle East.

Speaking in the White House rose garden on Friday, Trump said he had decided “the time had come to call on Qatar to end its funding … and its extremist ideology.”

His comments marked his most forthright intervention in a crisis triggered on Monday when Saudi Arabia and its Gulf allies launched a co-ordinated diplomatic and economic campaign to isolate Qatar.

Earlier this week, the US president appeared to take credit for the blockade in a string of tweets.

On Friday, Trump said that Arab leaders he met in Saudi Arabia last month had urged him to challenge Qatar, which they accuse of backing extremist groups and cosying up to Iran.

“So we had a decision to make: do we take the easy road, or do we finally take a hard but necessary action? We have to stop the funding of terrorism,” he said. “The nation of Qatar, unfortunately, has historically been a funder of terrorism at a very high level.”

Trump’s intervention came after Saudi Arabia and its allies on Friday sanctioned a dozen organisations and 59 people it accused of links to Islamist militancy – a number of them Qataris or with links to Qatar.

The Qatari government said in a statement on Friday: “We do not, have not and will not support terrorist groups.”

US relations with Qatar have long been complicated by Doha’s promotion of a conservative form of Sunni Islam, but the tiny Gulf state is also a close military partner. More than 11,000 US and coalition forces are at al-Udeid air base outside Doha, which is the centre for US air operations over Syria, Iraq, Yemen and Afghanistan.

US officials scramble to limit Donald Trump's diplomatic damage over Qatar tweets

Qatar had previously called on Trump to intervene decisively, saying he was “crucial” to resolving the crisis.

On Thursday, Meshal bin Hamad al-Thani, Qatar’s ambassador to the US, said: “We believe in his ability to calm this crisis down. We are courageous enough to acknowledge if things need to be amended.”

But Trump’s tone struck a marked contrast with comments by the US secretary of state, who just an hour earlier urged Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, Egypt and Bahrain to ease their blockade of Qatar.

In a brief statement to reporters, Rex Tillerson said that the blockade was hampering US military efforts against Islamic State and causing unintended humanitarian consequences.

Tillerson said the US would support efforts to mediate the row, but also said Qatar must do more to crack down on support for terror.

“The emir of Qatar has made progress in halting financial support and expelling terrorists from his country, but he must do more and he must do it more quickly.”

The UAE’s ambassador to Washington welcomed Trump’s comments. “The UAE welcomes President Trump’s leadership in challenging Qatar’s troubling support for extremism. The next step is for Qatar to acknowledge these concerns and commit to re-examine its regional policies,” said Yousef Al Otaiba, according to Reuters.

Ben Rhodes, who served as Barack Obama’s deputy national security adviser, said Trump’s remarks on the crisis were especially confounding because there appeared to be no official US strategy.

“There’s no explanation for why he’s doing what he’s doing,” Rhodes said, warning that Trump’s loose words threatened counter-terrorism operations against Isis, US troops stationed in the region, and risked the escalation of conflict with Iran.

“There’s a short-term risk of increased danger to our national security objectives, and then there’s a longer term risk of escalating conflicts on many fronts,” Rhodes said. “In the Middle East, it’s always a mistake to think that things can’t get worse.”

Qatar’s foreign minister described the blockade as a violation of international law and said there was an attempt to mobilise international opinion against the Gulf emirate. “These procedures that were taken have clear violations of international law and international humanitarian law. They will not have a positive impact on the region but a negative one,” Sheikh Mohammed bin Abdulrahman al-Thani told reporters on Friday during a visit to Germany.

Included on the Saudi sanctions list – which was denounced as “baseless and without foundation in fact” by Qatar – are the Qatari-funded Qatar Charity and Eid Charity, and several prominent figures including businessmen, politicians and senior members of the ruling family, one a former interior minister.

The list also includes the Muslim Brotherhood’s spiritual leader, Youssef al-Qaradawi, who is based in Doha, and individuals in Libya as well as Shia groups in Bahrain seen by some Gulf Arab governments as linked to Iran.

The sanctions list further tightens the screws on Qatar, home to a key US military base and the host of the 2022 Fifa World Cup.

It also strongly suggests a widening of the aggressive Saudi-led campaign beyond Qatar itself – not least against the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt – where Youssef al-Qaradawi was tried and sentenced to death in absentia following the 2013 military overthrow of the elected president Mohamed Morsi, a Brotherhood member.

Although Qatar has long denied supporting or funding terror groups, western diplomats have accused it of allowing the funding of some Sunni extremists, such as al-Qaida’s branch in Syria. The same accusations have been levelled against individuals in Kuwait and Saudi Arabia.

A leading diplomat from the UAE told the Guardian on Thursday that the Gulf states had lost all trust in Qatar.

Omar Saif Ghobas, the UAE’s ambassador to Russia, said: “There is no trust, it has gone. So when the Qatari foreign minister says, ‘Listen, we need to engage in dialogue,’ we have done that for many years – that’s just a statement for western consumption.”

The crisis has provoked anxieties in Qatar, a leading gas exporter as well as an international travel hub, whose flagship carrier Qatar Airways has been forced to fly circuitous and expensive routes over Iran and Turkey after being blocked elsewhere in the Middle East.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 10 Jun 2017 12:21

Turkey promises to send in aircraft,naval vessels,etc. asap,in addition to troops.This marks a real escalation in the crisis.With Qatar trying to gain as much mil/dpl support from friends and opportunists,as it has a huge bank balance to boot,will the Soothi Barbarians dare to overtthrow the Qatari regime? Will the Qataris and Iranians now start their own countermeasures against the Saudis and Gulfies?

Gyan · Post by **Gyan** » 10 Jun 2017 12:25

SriJoy wrote: I don't think what we are doing is anything out of the ordinary. Look at China- until their economy started to kick-off in the late 90s, they didn't take a strong and staunch position over anything that didn't jeopardize their sovereignty directly/affect a bordering state. Ie, the only difference between PRC and RoI is that PRC has been a lot more 'red line' oriented about sovereignty. Thats it.
........... Hence we need to play it cautious till we put ourselves in the shoes of USA/China, i.e., too big to fail/piss off/ignore completely.
Ie, this wishy-washy diplomatic stance over other people's issues need to continue for another 15-20 years before we become the 2nd/3rd largest economy in the world and can then successfully throw our weight around.

I disagree, China took an extraordinary strong line on lot of things like:-

Korean War, It was China vs USA to protect a bordering nation, which was not even Chinese territory

Indo-China War, it was teach a lesson to India war, even though Korean border was still very tense & India was close to USA

Soviet China War, they fought with their biggest nuke armed benefactors

China- Vietnam War, was again an attempt to draw a line in Sand.

While India has sat back and lost Maldvies & Nepal to Pakistan and China. And Imagine that in 1999 Pakistan (1/10th the size of India) attacked India in Kargill, while our import pasand Generals were whinning for this & that import, only the bravery of rank & file saved the day.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 10 Jun 2017 12:26

running with the hare and hunting with the hound...what is this about Trump saying diagonally opposite to what his secy state says?
So is this Iraq-Kuwait redux finally?
no idea how far is this reliable--Pk to send troops to Qtr http://en.trend.az/world/2764577.html

Gyan · Post by **Gyan** » 10 Jun 2017 12:27

JE Menon wrote:OK, on the trade with Saudi Arabia front - just some unverifiable info.

I inquired as to why our trade with Saudi (exports) was less than with Malaysia, and the response was that a significant chunk goes as re-export from Dubai. This info, i.e. the precise amount out of Dubai, is not public as far as I know. But this explains why the UAE with a population about a sixth of Saudi imports six times more than Saudi from India. Why is it re-exported from Dubai rather than directly sent to Saudi? No idea, but possibly for (a) consolidated shipping - i.e. bundling of many different products together in a single container-load; (b) import tax reasons if value is added in the free zones of Dubai, and (c) Saudi businessmen are much more comfortable dealing with Indian (or Arab/Iranian) businessmen in Dubai than with Indian businessmen in India.

That export figure at the commerce ministry site, therefore, is not a reflection of the real full export relationship with Saudi. We cannot make any valuable analysis based on it. But that does not mean we are in surplus with Saudi either. Would love to find out.

Dubai is much more free society, which permits easy foreign ownership of business & property along with lot of property places. Hence it is a hub of business.

Gyan · Post by **Gyan** » 10 Jun 2017 12:27

Bhurishravas wrote:In 1980s China took the plunge and opened its economy,despite being communist. Now their economy is ten times ours. First movers advantage.
What if we open the economy? Amreekis will take over. Someone would have said then. So we did nothing.
We will only copy others. We will never take the initiative. We will not even attempt anything.
What if Iran gets angry. What if Saudis dont respond to our overtures.
Do nothing and sit tight on our asses. Economy, Military, foreign policy. Do nothing. Sit tight. We are either not big enough or someone will get angry or there are too many risks.
Great.

Any major world crisis is a bargaining opportunity. We need to use it.. intelligently.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 10 Jun 2017 12:30

Philip A lot of skeletons are tumbling out of terrorism closet.
Our CTs are becoming mainstream.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 10 Jun 2017 14:59

JE Menon was on spot when he said Trump has been played by Saudis..after Trump's visit Saudi realised he has poor grasp on geo political issues and he can be manipulated through his business interests. This is all going in that direction.
Only problem is with Iran & Turkey on Qtr side invasion may not be an easy option unless US lands army on ground with air support.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 10 Jun 2017 16:10

Gulf crisis: Trump escalates row by accusing Qatar of sponsoring terror https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... iddle-east

Trump’s intervention came after Saudi Arabia and its allies on Friday sanctioned a dozen organisations and 59 people it accused of links to Islamist militancy – a number of them Qataris or with links to Qatar.

Ben Rhodes, who served as Barack Obama’s deputy national security adviser, said Trump’s remarks on the crisis were especially confounding because there appeared to be no official US strategy.

“There’s no explanation for why he’s doing what he’s doing,” Rhodes said, warning that Trump’s loose words threatened counter-terrorism operations against Isis, US troops stationed in the region, and risked the escalation of conflict with Iran.

“There’s a short-term risk of increased danger to our national security objectives, and then there’s a longer term risk of escalating conflicts on many fronts,” Rhodes said. “In the Middle East, it’s always a mistake to think that things can’t get worse.”

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 10 Jun 2017 16:11

Saudi Arabia and Bahrain welcome Donald Trump's demand for Qatar to stop funding terrorism http://www.firstpost.com/world/saudi-ar ... 38473.html

ldev · Post by **ldev** » 10 Jun 2017 17:26

Will Qatar's crisis becomes Turkey's too

There is a view in Ankara that this ongoing action against Qatar is linked to former Egyptian President Mohammed Morsi’s removal from power in 2013 and the July 15 failed coup in Turkey. Despite the fact all GCC members including the UAE have designated the Gülen Movement a terrorist organization, media outlets close to the ruling Justice and Development Party (AKP) have accused Abu Dhabi of sponsoring its operatives prior to last year’s failed coup, referencing hacked emails from the UAE’s ambassador to Washington.

Amid the confusion of the July 2016 coup attempt, when Western leaders were (according to Ankara’s interpretation) hedging their bets by not calling Turkey’s civilian government leaders to offer them support, the emir of Qatar was the first foreign head of state to call Erdogan and pledge solidarity with the AKP-led government. Now with Saudi Arabia, the UAE, Egypt, and other anti-Muslim Brotherhood states taking action against Doha, which many observers believe may lead to a coup in Qatar, the AKP perceives such moves against Qatar as, by extension, directed against Turkey.

Many of Turkey’s pro-government social media users have taken to Twitter to express solidarity with Qatar. One Twitter user wrote, “we, Turks, never allow our brother to become alone, do not worry, Allah with us. #TuerkiyeKatarKardestir #TurkeyWithQatar.” Another tweeted: “Qatar, Turkey’s breathing valve. Turkey will not abandon Qatar. The main target is Turkey.” Such messages on social media are in line with Erdogan’s personal views of Qatar, which are highly emotional and based on the understanding that the country is Turkey’s closest friend in the GCC.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 10 Jun 2017 19:36

I just realized that I have noooo problem with Qatar being demolished and eaten by KSA.
a) It will tie up a lot of the KSA armed forces, leaving Houthis some peace to plan attacks on Riyadh
b) Drive up the price of gas - my Natural Gas portfolio is down 25% or more.

c) One less terror-sponsoring Islamic dump.
d) Turkish Sunni forces suffer humiliating defeat.
Overall, win-win.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 10 Jun 2017 19:46

And in the process I hope the Qatari Armed forces give a good account of themselves by bombing a few Saudi oilfields and the Royal Palace.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 10 Jun 2017 19:49

Falling-out of Terrorists is getting more interesting:

UN disses Terror List provided by KSA

Spokesman for secretary-general says UN built 'strong partnerships' with Qatari charities branded 'terrorist' entities. The United Nations says it is not bound by Saudi Arabia's "terror list" after the kingdom named several high-profile Qatari charities that carry out life-saving work in war-torn and impoverished countries on it.

Stephane Dujarric, UN Secretary-General Antonio Guterras' spokesman, said on Friday he had seen media reports that four Arab countries accused three Qatar-based charities of being involved in "terrorism".

Qatar Charity, Qatar's largest NGO, has worked extensively with the UNHCR, UNICEF, the World Food Programme, Oxfam, CARE, and USAID.
Qatar FM: GCC Blockade violates international law

The Sheikh Eid Al-Thani Charity Foundation and the Sheikh Thani Bin Abdullah Foundation for humanitarian services were also blacklisted by Saudi Arabia, the UAE, Egypt, and Bahrain late on Thursday.

"The UN is bound only by the sanctions lists put together by UN organs such as the Security Council. We're not bound by any other lists," Dujarric said.

"The Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs has over the years built strong partnerships with these organisations based on shared humanitarian principles, which are strictly non-political," he added.

READ MORE: Qatar-Gulf crisis - Who are the 'terrorists'?

The Qatari government rejected allegations of supporting individuals and groups blacklisted as "terrorists" after the four countries cut ties with Doha amid a major diplomatic crisis.

"The recent joint statement issued by Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Egypt, and the UAE regarding a 'terror finance watchlist' once again reinforces baseless allegations that hold no foundation in fact," the Qatari government said. "Our position on countering terrorism is stronger than many of the signatories of the joint statement - a fact that has been conveniently ignored by the authors." Mahjoob Zweiri, a professor at Qatar University, said the "terror" list was dubious because "there's a body within Qatar's Ministry of Social Affairs, which looks at all the charities and monitors every penny they receive and send". Zweiri added these charities cooperate with international aid agencies, including USAID and UK-based Oxfam, in conflict zones such as Syria and Iraq. They also assist in troubled areas such as Palestine, Yemen and South Sudan. "By saying that those specific charities [are engaged in terrorism], they are questioning the work of the international aid agencies cooperating with them as well," Zweiri said. Since its establishment in 1984, Qatar Charity has sponsored 213,750 young orphans into adulthood, and has built more than 621 schools worldwide.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 10 Jun 2017 21:34

JEM: isn't there a much simpler explanation for this Ummah luv-fest?

Sona Bandar could have gone to Riyadh and gently told them:

Hey, u have lost in Syria, lost in Iraq, and are heading to lose in Yemen. Maybe time to stop your terrorism ambitions? And don't argue with me about that - here's the intel proof from both us and the Russians that you and your Gelf gang ARE the sponsors of ISIS. How would you like it if we "let" the Russians and Houthis reduce Ras Tanura and Riyadh to smoking ruins?

And the response is:

IT's not uss!!! Its all Doha and Al Jazeera and the Qatari "charities"!

This provides a clean explanation why the entire terror gang are united with KSA, and all bissing on Qatar in a totally Islamic public Stoning ceremony.

The Iran thing is a complete sideshow. The Iranians are winning all round, and none of them like it.
Come to think of it, it may be completely true that Al Jazeera IS the international network of ISIS. Hiding in plain view, totally secoolar with forearm-exposing non-houris doing their newscasts and all.

The thing that is new in DupleeCity is that the Caliph is on good terms with the Czar.

Falijee · Post by **Falijee** » 10 Jun 2017 21:54

Childish Behaviour By Saudi Arabia !

Saudi Arabia outlaws wearing FC Barcelona shirt, prescribes 15 years jail term for offenders

Another Example Of Childish Saudi Behaviour !

$27,000 fine for Saudi hotels airing Al Jazeera

PS: "Kiss and Make Up" Party Coming Up in a year or two !

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 10 Jun 2017 21:57

UlanBatori wrote:I just realized that I have noooo problem with Qatar being demolished and eaten by KSA.
a) It will tie up a lot of the KSA armed forces, leaving Houthis some peace to plan attacks on Riyadh
b) Drive up the price of gas - my Natural Gas portfolio is down 25% or more.
c) One less terror-sponsoring Islamic dump.
d) Turkish Sunni forces suffer humiliating defeat.
Overall, win-win.

Whenever you talk of war, peace prevails, ex: NoKo.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 10 Jun 2017 22:02

The PeaceMaker. But I think the strike on NoKo is coming soon. Pulling both carriers from there without any action, leaving NoKo with a full ICBM capability, would be most un-Trumplike, not to mention most non-US-like. Cheen is not going to pull their teeth, Cheen influence already replaced by Russians. So there will be at least an ICBM shoot-down. Maybe coordinated by Putin so that everyone can go home and declare victory.

abhik · Post by **abhik** » 10 Jun 2017 23:02

Gyan wrote:
SriJoy wrote: I don't think what we are doing is anything out of the ordinary. Look at China- until their economy started to kick-off in the late 90s, they didn't take a strong and staunch position over anything that didn't jeopardize their sovereignty directly/affect a bordering state. Ie, the only difference between PRC and RoI is that PRC has been a lot more 'red line' oriented about sovereignty. Thats it.
........... Hence we need to play it cautious till we put ourselves in the shoes of USA/China, i.e., too big to fail/piss off/ignore completely.
Ie, this wishy-washy diplomatic stance over other people's issues need to continue for another 15-20 years before we become the 2nd/3rd largest economy in the world and can then successfully throw our weight around.
I disagree, China took an extraordinary strong line on lot of things like:-

Korean War, It was China vs USA to protect a bordering nation, which was not even Chinese territory

Indo-China War, it was teach a lesson to India war, even though Korean border was still very tense & India was close to USA

Soviet China War, they fought with their biggest nuke armed benefactors

China- Vietnam War, was again an attempt to draw a line in Sand.

While India has sat back and lost Maldvies & Nepal to Pakistan and China. And Imagine that in 1999 Pakistan (1/10th the size of India) attacked India in Kargill, while our import pasand Generals were whinning for this & that import, only the bravery of rank & file saved the day.

India is a status quoist state. We like the status quo to be maintained, even if it doesn't favour us. Saudi funding of wahabis and it's propping up of pakistan is well recognised here as detrimental to our interests, yet people here wish nothing bad happens to the Saudis because we have a couple lac of our people who have half decent jobs there.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 10 Jun 2017 23:19

UB,

It is entirely possible, indeed probable, that what you described is more or less what happened. Namely, DDT went to the Gulf to clean-up - i.e. get rid of the Islamists. First step go to the nest and read them the riot act in private and directly. They all listened nicely and said Qatar is the villain.. "Look"! And there seems to be little doubt that it is a villain. But "the" villain? We all know that's not the case. But DDT may not have had the bandwidth to take in the full briefs. He said told the Saudis (who are seen as the leaders in that neck of the desert), do what needs to be done. This is when the local tribes did what local tribes do, they ganged up on the one that was uppity and somewhat deviant, in their eyes. It just happened that the terrorism issue dovetailed neatly with the Qatar not staying it's lane issue (Al Jizzera and so on).

And so we have what we have now. Net net, Trump got played by the wily bedouin of the Hejaz. This is not the first time this is happening in history, and almost certainly won't be the last. The Americans quickly wisened up to the realities on the ground obviously, which leads to Tillerson's rather mature statement (given the circumstances). But that again was undermined by Trump's subsequent statement during his press conference with the Romanian president (or was it prime minister?).

So we are still where we were. The ball is in the court of the GCC countries. Qatar might make a move next, a public one, like kicking out a few of the MB folks and the Hamas folks. The Saudis will say that is fine, and everything will go back slowly to normal until the next time.

Only point of disagrement I have is that in this situation Iran is not a sideshow. The Saudis and the rest of them really want to stick it to Iran. And of course, they have some extra-regional powers interested in the same. That is a point of common interest. The trouble is that there really isn't any reason to do anything. Iran just elected a moderate leader. Turkey, meanwhile, flashed the general public again. Completely unnecessary sense of urgency to bring the troops to Qatar I think. It's not like they are going to take on the Saudis from Qatar. It is a symbolic and slightly shambolic move, and it will only make matters worse for Ankara going forward.

The Americans, regrettably, have been particularly pathetic in the management of all this. But there will be no real price to pay for that I think, except that the pot is stirred a little more, things are a little more uncertain, everyone is a bit more on the knife-edge, the violence will get a bit more widespread and just that touch more intense, while countries are jumping in and out of bed with each other faster than a ***** soap opera.

No winners.

And the terrorism is not going to subside in any meaningful way.

Some points to note: The EU has been very subdued in its reaction, considering their economic interests there. Perhaps they will soon say they indulged in "quiet backstage diplomacy", and maybe they actually did that - or perhaps they are simply too busy trying to locate their rears with flashlights now that the elections are throwing up incomprehensible results across their continent. Or perhaps it's just me and my schadenfreude over their discomfort.

Another is that in the GCC, I did not hear any major noise coming from Oman or from Dubai's Shaikh Mohammed over these recent developments. Unless I just missed it, this seems to me to be a fairly clear indication that the whole escalation was rather a half-baked one, with not much thought for the consequences but a high level of confidence that "the West" will sort the mess out. We'll see.

Gyan · Post by **Gyan** » 11 Jun 2017 00:34

I think Trump is not THAT BIG a fool. ISIS is getting smashed everywhere and Qatar is not playing ball by helping ISIS. So I think Israel + Saudi lobby bought out Trump by promises to help him in Washington DC Circus + other things.

KrishnaK · Post by **KrishnaK** » 11 Jun 2017 01:49

JE Menon wrote:It is entirely possible, indeed probable, that what you described is more or less what happened. Namely, DDT went to the Gulf to clean-up - i.e. get rid of the Islamists. First step go to the nest and read them the riot act in private and directly. They all listened nicely and said Qatar is the villain.. "Look"! And there seems to be little doubt that it is a villain. But "the" villain? We all know that's not the case. But DDT may not have had the bandwidth to take in the full briefs. He said told the Saudis (who are seen as the leaders in that neck of the desert), do what needs to be done. This is when the local tribes did what local tribes do, they ganged up on the one that was uppity and somewhat deviant, in their eyes. It just happened that the terrorism issue dovetailed neatly with the Qatar not staying it's lane issue (Al Jizzera and so on).
.......
.......
Some points to note: The EU has been very subdued in its reaction, considering their economic interests there. Perhaps they will soon say they indulged in "quiet backstage diplomacy", and maybe they actually did that - or perhaps they are simply too busy trying to locate their rears with flashlights now that the elections are throwing up incomprehensible results across their continent. Or perhaps it's just me and my schadenfreude over their discomfort.

Latest reaction from france

French government spokesman Christophe Castaner says Wednesday in a news conference following the weekly Cabinet meeting that "Qatar must ensure transparency."

While this is not taking sides per-se, France is definitely making its opinions clear.

Qatar has been blamed as more of a "villain" than anyone else in the Gulf by the US & France including other EU states for a while now.

Qatar’s Support of Islamists Alienates Allies Near and Far
Is Qatar fuelling the crisis in north Mali?

French far-right leader Marine Le Pen and Communist Party Senator Michelle Demessine both said that that Qatar had questions to answer.
...
The first accusations of Qatari involvement with Tuareg separatists and Islamist groups came in a June 2012 article in respected French weekly the Canard Enchainé.
...
A month later Sadou Diallo, the mayor of the north Malian city of Gao [which had fallen to the Islamists] told RTL radio: “The French government knows perfectly well who is supporting these terrorists. Qatar, for example, continues to send so-called aid and food every day to the airports of Gao and Timbuktu.”

Stavridis and other current U.S. officials suggest that the biggest share of the individual donations supporting ISIS and the most radical groups comes from Qatar rather than Saudi Arabia, and that the Qatari government has done less to stop the flow than its neighbors in Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates. One U.S. official said the Saudis are "more in line with U.S. foreign policy" than the Qataris.

from Who’s Funding ISIS? Wealthy Gulf ‘Angel Investors,’ Officials Say

They have also been the one of the most significant sponsors of Hamas

"We must make our message clear: If you help finance Hamas, there will be significant consequences and they will be unpleasant. I hope Qatar and Turkey are listening."

from Qatar and state sponsored terrorism Note most of these incidents/news articles are from well before Donald Trump.

Khaled Meshal lives in sumptuous luxury in Qatar.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 11 Jun 2017 01:56

There is another aspect. Camel-shaking regardless (Gorillas shake trees to impress one another, but there are no trees there..) KSA is not going to invade Qatar without explicit American say-so. There are huge US bases in KSA, and there is a huge US base in Qatar. So Qatar has as much security as Syria's Latakia has. Will US agree? $21B F-15 deal says no. IMO, the Yemen deployment is unravelling: GCC was already at war with Hadi in Aden. Qatar has now withdrawn. KSA is under direct attack from Houthis inside KSA, and I have a feeling that Qatar is about to make a security deal with Iran and hence Putin. Egypt is under direct attack from ISIS so their main concern is Al Jazeera reporting on the progress of that war. Probably same with GCC and KSA - reporting in Arabic on debacles in Aden and KSA can spread panic. Dubai just depends on all its neighbors plus outside world for survival. Did you note that Abu Dhabi, whose Sultan IIRC basically rules Dubai after the 2008 buy-out, has ***NOT**** broken relations with Qatar? WHY? That's pretty in-ur-face to Sultan-e-Riyadh unless there is more here than meets the eye. All the noise may be to impress Sona Bandar?

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 11 Jun 2017 02:01

One also has to ask :WHY WAIT ALL THIS TIME? The reports confirm what we have been seeing for 4 years: Qatari funding, but Turkey conveying the weapons (tanks included) by Turkish rail, quite publicly, to the borders. Turkish troops providing covering fire. Turkish planes protecting ISIS from Russian attack. All this right under American noses. Pretty explicit Saudi support for some of the groups, esp. with TOW missiles.

So why all the

now? The major changes are (a) defeat is undeniable and (b) Russo-Bandar links. Thieves are falling out. Situation must be really desperate, and KSA sees ISIS returning 'home'. May be already well into KSA, if they are so deep in Sinai and Egypt is fighting for survival.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 11 Jun 2017 10:49

pepe escobar on the qatar crisis has a writing style similar to our philip sir

https://sputniknews.com/columnists/2017 ... hhabi-war/

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 11 Jun 2017 11:20

Live From Mogadishu‏ @Daudoo 16h16 hours ago
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Replying to @Daudoo
BREAKING: Massive bomb blast hits #US & #Somalia forces retreating from #Barrire town. One destroyed armored vehicle left on scene - Witness

BREAKING: #AlShabaab fighters retake #Bariire town in Lower Shabelle region after #Somalia & #US troops pull out this afternoon - Residents.

BREAKING: #Somalia troops backed by #US forces attack #AlShabaab-controlled town of #Bariire in Lower Shabelle. Clashes ongoing - Residents.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 11 Jun 2017 11:24

video - sdf unit ambushes a ISIS vehicular probe

https://twitter.com/AfarinMamosta/statu ... 0589292544