Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

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SSridhar
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby SSridhar » 09 Oct 2016 20:11

China defends stand on blocking UN ban on Azhar - PTI
China on Saturday defended its second technical hold to prevent a U.N. ban on Pakistan-based JeM chief Masood Azhar saying there were “different views” on India’s application and that Beijing’s move will allow more time for the “relevant parties” to have consultations.

Reacting to India’s criticism that its second hold on attempts to ban Azhar sends a dangerous message, the Chinese Foreign Ministry said that the listing application member states submitted to the 1267 Committee of UN “must comply” with specific requirements of relevant resolutions of the U.N. Security Council (UNSC).

Lone opponent

Though China is the lone member among the 15-member UNSC to oppose the ban on Azhar, Beijing claims that “different views” existed about India’s application against Azhar. “There are still different views on India’s listing application made this March. The technical hold on it will allow more time for the Committee to deliberate on the matter and for relevant parties to have further consultations,” the Ministry said in a written reply to PTI to a question seeking its response to India’s strong criticism.

The reference to “further consultations” apparently referred to direct consultations between India and Pakistan over the issue.


China had put the first technical hold six months ago on India’s application following Azhar’s alleged involvement in the Pathankot terrorist attack.

China had extended the second technical hold valid for three months during this week despite several consultations between New Delhi and Beijing at various levels.

It is expected to figure again during the expected meeting between Prime Minister Narendra Modi and President Xi Jinping on the sidelines of the BRICS summit to be held in Goa on October 15-16.

The Chinese Foreign Ministry however said “China firmly supports combating all forms of terrorism, stronger international cooperation against terrorism, and supports the central and coordinating role of the U.N. in international counter-terrorism cooperation.”

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby zoverian » 10 Oct 2016 12:10

China accuses India of 'political gains' in seeking to ban Pak-based terrorist Masood Azhar

NEW DELHI: Two days after it again blocked India's move to get the United Nations to 'ban' Pakistan-based terrorist Masood Azhar, China today added insult to injury by accusing India of pursuing "political gains in the name of counter-terrorism", PTI reported.

China continuing to block this move - which would pretty much cripple Azhar's ability to raise funds or to travel - comes in the context of Indo-US military ties strengthening and even as there is a rapid deterioration of Indo-Pak ties since the terror attacks in Uri in Jammu and Kashmir last month.

Also at stake for China, is the China Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC) that's in trouble following security concerns in Pakistan-occupied-Kashmir. After India retaliated against Pakistan with surgical strikes on terrorist camps in Pakistan,Beijing's response was guarded. But with Saturday's block, China appears to be sending a clear signal about whose side it is on.

"There should be no double standards on counter- terrorism. Nor should one pursue own political gains in the name of counter-terrorism," said China's Vice Foreign Minister Li Baodong at a press briefing today, ahead of Chinese President Xi Jinping's visit to India this week for the BRICS Summit scheduled to held October 15-16 in Goa.

Beijing on Saturday extended its technical "hold" on designating the Jaish-e-Mohammed (JeM) chief a terrorist, for a further three months, in the UN Security Council's 1267 committee. Its move came on a day when the previous Chinese "hold" was scheduled to expire.

"China always maintains that on the listing matter, the 1267 committee should stick to the main principles of objectivity, impartiality and professionalism, base its judgments on solid evidence and decide upon consensus among the members of the Security Council," Chinese foreign ministry spokesperson Geng Shuang said in a written reply to a question after it extended its technical hold.


On the issue of India's membership to the Nuclear Suppliers Group (NSG) - another move Beijing blocked earlier this year - China's foreign minister today reiterated that there was need to build consensus over the admission of new members to the 48-member Group.

"These rules are not to be decided by China alone. On the issue, China and India have maintained good communication and we are ready to continue consultations with India to build consensus and we also hope India can go to other members of the NSG as well," Li said.


I wasn't expecting a direct statement :shock:

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby IndraD » 10 Oct 2016 14:50

So China has no problem in siding with terrorist states on two sides - NoKo & Pakistan. Why should they have when US openly sided with Saudis for years who fund IS. And mercenaries are being used by them to topple regime and fight what ever existing regime! UN is even more tooth less and in a new world order US is appearing weaker than we think.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Haresh » 10 Oct 2016 20:05

Not strictly a Indo-China story, more of a UK-China one.


Mysterious factory break-in raises suspicions about Chinese visit

A burglary at an innovative Scottish wave power company went forgotten, until a very similar project appeared in China


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/ ... nese-visit

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby SSridhar » 11 Oct 2016 08:47

India continues to boost military ties with China - Rajat Pandit, ToI
India continues to slowly but steadily build military-to-military ties with China, even as it keeps its armed forces on high operational readiness along the western front with Pakistan for any contingency after the cross-border surgical strikes of September 29.

India and China, after holding their first-ever joint tactical exercises in eastern Ladakh and Sikkim along the disputed 4,057-km Line of Actual Control (LAC) earlier this year, are now getting set for their annual 'Hand-in-Hand' (HiH) combat exercise at Aundh, near Pune in Maharashtra, from November 15 to 27.

Sources said the sixth edition of the HiH exercise, which has emerged as a major confidence-building measure between the world's largest and second-largest standing armies, will see participation from over 170 troops from the recently-upgraded Tibet Military Command of People's Liberation Army.

Armed with weaponry ranging from 12.7mm anti-material rifles and flame-throwers to "corner-shooting systems" and laser-blinding devices, the PLA troops will practice counter-terrorism drills with Maratha Light Infantry soldiers equipped with their own specialised weapons.

The exercise will also focus on "trans-national terrorism" {but, China will not sanction any terrorists against India operating from Pakistan !}, with China grappling with the expanding influence of jihadist group Islamic State in Xinjiang, as India deals with cross-border militancy actively fuelled by Pakistan.


China has long used Pakistan to bog India down in south Asia. Apart from the stark military asymmetry, India remains worried about China's major upgrade of military infrastructure all along the LAC as well as the PLA's expanding footprint in Pakistan-occupied Kashmir. To make matters worse, China has also blocked India's entry into the Nuclear Suppliers Group, as also the designation of Jaish-e-Mohammed chief Masood Azhar as a terrorist by the UN.

But brushing aside such irritants, India is stepping up its defence ties with China with more military exercises, top-level visits, hotlines and other CBMs, while also boosting its military deterrence along the LoC, as earlier reported by TOI.

While the LoC with Pakistan remains volatile with almost daily exchanges of fire, the LAC has not seen a single shot being fired for decades. There has also been a slight decline in troop face-offs between India and China after the two inked the border defence cooperation agreement in October 2013. But "transgressions" across the LAC - military euphemism for troop incursions -- continue unabated with over 200 such incidents being recorded this year.

The first two editions of the HiH exercises were held at Kunming (China) in 2007 and Belgaum in 2008 but were then frozen after diplomatic spats over visa and other issues in 2009-2010. After being revived in 2013, with the third edition being held at Miaoergang in China, the exercise has now become a regular feature.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby SSridhar » 11 Oct 2016 12:16

India's decision to seal Pakistan border irrational: Chinese experts
India's move to completely seal its border with Pakistan was a " very irrational decision" and would further complicate India-China relations considering Beijing's "all-weather" strategic ties with Islamabad, a state media report on Tuesday quoted leading experts as saying.

"India is making a very irrational decision, since no exhaustive investigation has been conducted after the Uri incident, and no evidence proves Pakistan is behind the attack," the Global Times quoted Hu Zhiyong, a research fellow from the official thinktank Institute of International Relations of the Shanghai Academy, as saying.


Hu was commenting on Home Minister Rajnath Singh's announcement on Friday that the 3,323-km-long border between India and Pakistan would be "completely sealed" by December 2018.

A "completely sealed" border would further hinder the already scarce border trade and talks between the two countries, Hu said.

Wang Dehua, director of the Institute for Southern and Central Asian Studies at the Shanghai Municipal Centre for International Studies, said that a sealed border would only disrupt peace efforts made by the two sides.

"The country's decision reflects its Cold War mentality, and would only cause deeper hatred among residents living in Indian- and Pakistan-controlled Kashmir," Hu added.

Since Pakistan is China's "all-weather" strategic partner, India's decision would make China-Pakistan-India relations more complicated, Hu said.

But he said a peaceful resolution of the Kashmir dispute is in the interest of China's homeland security, especially its western regions.


Their hardline comments come ahead of Chinese President Xi Jinping's visit to India this week to take part in the BRICS Summit in Goa during which he would meet Prime Minister Narendra Modi.

This will be their second meeting in two months. The two met on the sidelines of the G20 Summit in Hangzhou last month.

Yesterday, China's Vice Foreign Minister Li Baodong defended China's "technical hold" in the UN on a ban on Masood Azhar, the head of Pakistan-based terrorist group Jaish-e-Muhammad.

"China is opposed to all forms of terrorism. There should be no double standards on counter terrorism. Nor should one pursue own political gains in the name of counter terrorism," he had said indirectly accusing India.


It is very clear that Pakistan is no longer an independent entity; it is Chin-Pak nowadays.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Austin » 11 Oct 2016 12:37

BTW can some one tell me how a ban on Masood Azhar by UN would help ? UN have already banned his organisation which means he is effectively banned as well as he leads the organisation if not explicitly.

If I am not wrong we have Dawood on UN banned list or list of terror suspect , Still he convinently keep travelling to UAE on charted aircraft without getting his passport stamped in UAE or Pakistan says Intel report.

Even if Mazood or Dawood or others are banned on UN likely they wont travel or travel stealthy to Gelf countries who support them or Haj or other personal visits.

What is the benefit of getting them banned if they keep flourishing in Pakistan or we have little hope of getting them back to India

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Philip » 11 Oct 2016 12:53

No water war with China? Can we trust the PRC? "Trust but verify",said the Gipper (Reagan).The best advice when dealing with the PRC.The problem for them is that BDesh too will get affected and they cannot antagonise two nations,who can join forces to fight China in international fora.

http://www.defencenews.in/article/NO-WA ... utra_water

NO WATER WAR :: China ready to join pact with India, Bangladesh to share Brahmaputra water

Monday, October 10, 2016
China's state-run media outlet on Monday said Beijing was ready to enter into a multilateral deal with India and Bangladesh to share water from the Brahmaputra river.

In an editorial titled "No need for concern in India over China's blockage of Brahmaputra River tributary", The Global Times highlighted that the dam for which China had "temporarily" blocked a tributary of the river in Tibet had a capacity of "less than 0.02% of the average annual runoff of the Brahmaputra".

"Frankly, there is no need for India to overreact to such projects, which aim to help with reasonable development and utilisation of water resources," the editorial said. It added that Indian media houses were "trying to create a false impression" by suggesting China's move to block the tributary is a "silent show of support" for Pakistan in its dispute with India over the Indus Waters Treaty. "The construction of the dam project on the tributary of the Brahmaputra started in June 2014," the article said.

The editorial said China is willing to follow a system similar to the one it has put in place with Myanmar, Laos, Thailand, Cambodia and Vietnam to share water from the Lancang-Mekong river. "This will be the most effective solution to the water dispute between China and India," the article said, while accusing India of "making increasing efforts to exploit the Brahmaputra river in recent years".

China had blocked a tributary of the Brahmaputra – Xiabuqu – in Tibet on October 1 to construct its Lalho hydro project, believed to be China's most expensive hydropower undertaking . It is expected to be completed in 2019. A sum of 4.95 billion yuan (Rs 4,923 crore) has been earmarked for it in Tibet's Xigaze region. Xigaze is about 200 km from Sikkim, and it is from here that the Brahmaputra enters Arunachal Pradesh.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby pankajs » 11 Oct 2016 13:35

SSridhar wrote:India's decision to seal Pakistan border irrational: Chinese experts
It is very clear that Pakistan is no longer an independent entity; it is Chin-Pak nowadays.

I may be wrong but here is my take on this bit of information.

What this GOI has done is that they have taken "terror and talk" cannot go together to the next level by launching a cross-border raid. The talk of sealing the border indicated further hardening of its stand as also a hint that future response will go *deeper* and will hit the bakis harder. The GOI has "locked itself" into a kind of auto-response to be consistent.

If the above is true, the cheenis understand that a baki action/reaction will only provoke a stronger reaction and that there is a lot of space for India to do extensive damage inside Bakistan while still not getting into ALL OUT war e.g missile strikes on key Infrastructure. Baki don't have a lot of firepower below their nuclear missiles for a prolonged border firefight.

That means that a lot of cheeni built infrastructure/investment will be under threat following any Baki escalation. Also, if India is able to maintain an escalation dominance and I expect that to be the case, the Baki military will be shown up for the puss that they are and weaken their standing in the mango apdul eyes. That would embolden both the jihadis and the freedom movements inside bakistan resulting in further chaos.

Such a situation does not suit cheenis both from a strategic perspective and stability in its western province as also lower cheenis prestige if they don't come to rescue. The cheenis will never allow the tail to wag the dog.

So the cheenis are trying to dissuade us by releasing such an statement via one of its mouthpieces but there is hardly anything the cheenis can do if GOI decides to act to a future provocation.

PS: Multiple edits for Clarity.

Added later: India's aggressive diplomacy on Bakistan and Masood Azhar seems to have pushed China into a corner. It can't abandon its client state but that means that it is forced to defend a terrorist at the UN. This might be a result of that frustration with Indian diplomacy and action. Perhaps they want India to back off on both.

While powerful countries don't care much for rules and conventions when it comes to their interest (e.g. SCS, Iraq war) they do care more than a little about perception. E.g US concocted the WMD story before Iraq war and China concocted a list of 60 countries that were supposed to support it on SCS.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby SSridhar » 11 Oct 2016 17:59

pankajs, IMO, China is worried about two things: Gilgit-Baltistan and Gwadar. Both are the fulcrum for the Chinese strategy in Pakistan. The Gilgit-Baltistan fulcrum is under severe stress now because of the surgical strikes, and the Indian claim that Indian forces were operating in their own territory (just what the Chinese claim whenever they intrude across the LAC). The 'LoC-is-no-more-sacrosanct and India will attack at will' policy cannot be reversed by future governments. The Gwadar port cannot be held if Balochistan is unstable and unfortunately that provinces's name was uttered by our PM in his I-Day message. Though he did not say anything else regarding our support for Baloch Independence movement at all, the mere mention upsets the strategic calculations of China.

Both China and Pakistan took Indian restraint over the decades in all matters, as something that it won't easily reverse. In one stroke, that has been blown to smithereens, leaving China very worried. Already, the situation of CPEC within Pakistan is very grim. China will now go all out to support the Pakistani Army, its only potential saviour. IMHO, the truly extraordinary support for JeM, to the extent of being singled-out in the UNSC 1267 Committee, is a part of that plan because JeM is today executing the cross-border plans of the PA after LeT has been forced to lie low. China will do everything to push India back.

One thing I have noticed is that China becomes irrational as soon as it is cornered, otherwise it looks confident riding roughshod over anyone. But, the moment it is caught off-guard, its stance, explanations, arguments and policies become twisted and even hilarious.

In any case, China is seriously worried. India scored many hits with a single strike.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby IndraD » 11 Oct 2016 20:49

India continues to boost military ties with China http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 787661.cms

India continues to slowly but steadily build military-to-military+ ties with China, even as it keeps its armed forces on high operational readiness along the western front with Pakistan for any contingency after the cross-border surgical strikes of September 29.

India and China, after holding their first-ever joint tactical exercises in eastern Ladakh and Sikkim along the disputed 4,057-km Line of Actual Control+ (LAC) earlier this year, are now getting set for their annual 'Hand-in-Hand' (HiH) combat exercise at Aundh, near Pune in Maharashtra, from November 15 to 27.

Sources said the sixth edition of the HiH exercise, which has emerged as a major confidence-building measure between the world's largest and second-largest standing armies, will see participation from over 170 troops from the recently-upgraded Tibet Military Command of People's Liberation Army.

Armed with weaponry ranging from 12.7mm anti-material rifles and flame-throwers to "corner-shooting systems" and laser-blinding devices, the PLA troops+ will practice counter-terrorism drills with Maratha Light Infantry soldiers equipped with their own specialised weapons.
The exercise will also focus on "trans-national terrorism", with China grappling with the expanding influence of jihadist group Islamic State in Xinjiang, as India deals with cross-border militancy actively fuelled by Pakistan.

China has long used Pakistan to bog India down in south Asia. Apart from the stark military asymmetry, India remains worried about China's major upgrade of military infrastructure all along the LAC as well as the PLA's expanding footprint in Pakistan-occupied Kashmir. To make matters worse, China has also blocked India's entry into the Nuclear Suppliers Group+ , as also the designation of Jaish-e-Mohammed chief Masood Azhar as a terrorist by the UN.

But brushing aside such irritants, India is stepping up its defence ties with China with more military exercises, top-level visits, hotlines and other CBMs, while also boosting its military deterrence along the LoC, as earlier reported by TOI.

While the LoC with Pakistan remains volatile with almost daily exchanges of fire, the LAC has not seen a single shot being fired for decades. There has also been a slight decline in troop face-offs between India and China after the two inked the border defence cooperation agreement in October 2013. But "transgressions" across the LAC+ - military euphemism for troop incursions - continue unabated with over 200 such incidents being recorded this year.

The first two editions of the HiH exercises were held at Kunming (China) in 2007 and Belgaum in 2008 but were then frozen after diplomatic spats over visa and other issues in 2009-2010. After being revived in 2013, with the third edition being held at Miaoergang in China, the exercise has now become a regular feature.

Military problems between India and China

1. China's continuing help to Pakistan to modernise its military, nuclear & missile arsenals.
2. China's huge military infrastructure build-up in Tibet Autonomous Region, with missile bases, fi ve fully-operational airbases, extensive rail network & over 58,000km of roads.
3. Growing presence of PLA troops in Pakistan-Occupied Kashmir 4,057km Line of Actual Control (LAC) unresolved despite 19 rounds of talks between special representatives

Bilateral military CBMs

1. Annual hand-in-hand Army exercise.
2. The two armies have now also begun to hold small joint tactical exercises along the LAC.
3. Top-level military exchanges and visits by warships to each other's ports. Annual defence dialogue between defence secretaries.
4. Border Defence Cooperation Agreement of October 2013 strengthens de-escalatory steps to defuse border face-offs. Prohibits "tailing" of other side's patrols in disputed areas

Steps to militarily deter China

1. Agni-III (3,000-km) inducted.
2. Agni-IV (3,500-km) & Agni-V (over 5,000-km) undergoing trials.
3. More Sukhoi-30MKI fighters, spy drones & helicopters in eastern theatre.
4. More T-72 tanks in Ladakh & Arunachal.
5. 2 new infantry divisions (36,000 soldiers) raised at Likabali & Missamari (Assam) in 2009-2010.
6. Mountain Strike Corps (90,274 soldiers) to be fully raised by 2021.
7. Ongoing deployment of six Akash surface-to-air missile squadrons in northeast.
8. A regiment of BrahMos supersonic cruise missiles to be deployed in Arunachal
9. Activated advance landing grounds in Ladakh (DBO, Nyoma & Fukche) and Arunachal (Pasighat, Mechuka, Walong, Along & Ziro).
10. Military force-levels and infrastructure to be bolstered in Andaman and Nicobar Islands
Last edited by SSridhar on 12 Oct 2016 10:41, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Edited for clarity of reading

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Austin » 12 Oct 2016 10:19

Russia, China to mull joint response to US missile shield

MOSCOW: Amid escalating US-Russia tensions, the Russian military said Tuesday it will cooperate with China on efforts to fend off a threat posed by the US missile defense program.

Lt. Gen. Viktor Poznikhir of the Russian military's General Staff accused the Pentagon of developing the shield as part of planning for a possible first nuclear strike. "The missile defense system considerably shifts the balance of offensive weapons, allowing the planning of a more efficient pre-emptive strike " he said at a security conference in China.

Russia and China have frequently expressed concerns about the US missile shield, but Poznikhir dropped any diplomatic reticence in his blunt speech that reflected a widening rift between Moscow and Washington.

"Russian military experts believe that the US hopes to gain the capability to strike any region of the world, including Russia and China, with nuclear-tipped missiles with impunity," he said. Poznikhir argued that Washington's calculus would be to launch a first disarming strike and then rely on the missile shield to shoot down the remaining enemy missiles launched at the US in a retaliatory strike.

He used an analogy of two gladiators armed with swords facing each other.

"If one of the gladiators takes up a shield, it will give him a marked advantage and make him think that he would be able to win, particularly if he strikes first," he said. "What would another gladiator do? Naturally, he also would pick up a shield and also a longer and stronger sword. This is what happening now as a result of the US missile deployment."

Poznikhir said that both Russia and China have taken counter measures in response to the US missile defense program, but he didn't but he didn't elaborate.

He noted that Russia and China held drills earlier this year to simulate a joint action to fend off missile strikes under the protection of a missile defense system near its borders. Poznikhir added that Moscow and Beijing will conduct a similar exercise next year.


Like other Russian officials before him, Poznikhir shrugged off US statements that the missile defense system is intended to fend off threats from North Korea and Iran. He argued that the planned US system will include hundreds of missile interceptors _ a capability far exceeding the need to deal with any potential threats from Iran and North Korea.

"Under the pretext of countering the North Korean and Iranian `missile threats,' the system intended primarily for engaging Russian and Chinese missiles is being developed," he said.

"The illusion of invulnerability and impunity under the missile defense umbrella would encourage Washington to take unilateral steps in dealing with global and regional issues," Poznikhir said. "That can objectively lead to lowering the threshold of nuclear weapons use to pre-empt the enemy's action."

He added that governments in Europe and Asia which agreed to host elements of the US missile shield had made their people "hostages of the US unpredictable action."

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby SSridhar » 12 Oct 2016 16:02

Beijing is hoping Xi Jinping's Dhaka trip shakes up Delhi, Chinese media hints - Shailaja Neelakantan, ToI
Even as President Xi Jinping gets ready to visit Bangladesh+ later this week, Chinese media is hoping the very thought of a closer Beijing-Dhaka relationship will pressure India to warm to China, despite the latter openly supporting a globally isolated Pakistan+ , and despite it very publicly blocking India's entry to the elite Nuclear Suppliers Group.

The Chinese state-run Global Times starts off an editorial today by flattering to deceive. It says "India has nothing to fear from a closer relationship" between Beijing and Dhaka+ .

"India will not need to be jealous of an increasingly close relationship between Beijing and Dhaka, because the improvement of local infrastructure and the overall economic ecology in Bangladesh will create favorable external conditions for connecting with markets in India, China and Southeast Asia," says the editorial.

It talks about China's Belt and Road Initiative that involves several South Asian countries, including Nepal and Bangladesh.

"Chinese President Xi Jinping's upcoming visit to Bangladesh is seen by some in India as a trip to snatch the South Asian country from the embrace of New Delhi... There is a popular view that China is trying to carve out for itself a pre-eminent role in South Asian affairs and that it intends to contain India's rise ... But such views are too simplistic," it writes.

Then it delivers its stinger - at the end of its litany about how altruistic its Belt-Road Initiative is for "connecting more than 4 billion people in 65 countries".

It says: "However, it would not necessarily be a bad thing if an increasingly close relationship between China and Bangladesh puts some pressure on New Delhi to rethink its strategy in this region and encourages it to put more effort into improving relations with China during the upcoming meeting between President Xi and Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi at the BRICS summit."

The state-run Chinese press is really hoping to shake up Delhi.

Even the Chinese Communist Party's official newspaper calls Premier Xi's upcoming visit to Bangladesh a "milestone".

An editorial in People's Daily, written by one Zhong Sheng - its fairly common knowledge that Zhong Sheng is the nom de plume often used for editorials that interpret Beijing's policies - said China is looking forward to cooperation with Bangladesh at a very high level.

"Given Bangladesh's status as an important partner in South Asia and the Indian Ocean, China is looking forward to cooperation with Bangladesh on high-level exchanges, trade expansion, production capacity, energy development and infrastructure," the Peoples Daily editorial said.


It is very clear that it is China now behind the 'isolate India' programme. It has always been on this project (looking at the earlier issues in ASEAN, APEC etc) but the intensity has increased dramatically, openly and without any restraint (as seen in NSG, UNSC, demand for new & expanded SAARC etc)

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Austin » 12 Oct 2016 16:10

As a nation we should not be insecure , we always look for approval from some one or the other.

We can also visit Bangladesh , Sri Lanka etc and build good relation with them , I dont think any one is Isolating India we just need to change our mindset and talk as secure nation and work positively to improve relation with every one.

Its the same opinion I see on Chinese news paper when Modi visit US they start parroting , Inda- US working against China etc

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby kmkraoind » 12 Oct 2016 16:12

If Bangladesh is smart, they will not embrace China tightly. It will not only anger India, but US and west. Right now, Bangladesh' main employment and foreign exchange earner is its Garment Industry, and US-West are giving concessions to Bangladesh. If they piss off US-West, it will become too destructive for BD's economy, which China cant fill. A warm handshake is okay, but a tight embrace with China will be very bad for BD.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby pankajs » 12 Oct 2016 16:26

The Chinese are good at playing mind games just like the Bakis. They know that Indian media is either dumb or too compromised in their opposition to Modi and will use these paper threats to scare mangos inside India with their sensational headlines.

A case in point when was the latest Chinese announcement on their Brahmaputra dam project. The project was started in 2014 but an announcement of some milestone completion was linked to Indian threat wrt IWT as cause and effect. Nothing could be further from the truth.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Austin » 12 Oct 2016 17:42

I think every country will look after its own interest , If Chinese offer easy credit to BD and good trade opportunities plus some Def Eqp on credit , BD will happily grab it with both hands , If India offers the same they will do it too.

BD would maintain good relation with China and India for their own reasons and interest

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby SSridhar » 12 Oct 2016 17:49

pankajs wrote:The Chinese are good at playing mind games just like the Bakis.

Exactly. If China can influence BD in some ways, India also can do so in other ways. After all, we have more connections with BD.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby SSridhar » 12 Oct 2016 17:56

Countries like Nepal, Myanmar, BD are sandwiched between two giants. All these countries have very close cultural, economical and political ties with India. We should also include Thailand, Laos, Cambodia & Vietnam in this list though Laos & Cambodia, by virtue of other factors,may be very close to PRC. Though we have a huge soft power with Cambodia (and even Laos), we may have to ride piggyback on Japan to strengthen our influence there and blunt the Chinese. The Japanese are in a big way into Cambodia.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby panduranghari » 12 Oct 2016 17:57

kmkraoind wrote:If Bangladesh is smart, they will not embrace China tightly. It will not only anger India, but US and west. Right now, Bangladesh' main employment and foreign exchange earner is its Garment Industry, and US-West are giving concessions to Bangladesh. If they piss off US-West, it will become too destructive for BD's economy, which China cant fill. A warm handshake is okay, but a tight embrace with China will be very bad for BD.


Chinese policy in BD will be the same like US one. They will want to meet the opposition party. The best bet for China is to topple the current lot and get islamists in. It works for them in Bakistan. It will work for them in BD. Uighur and Tibet needs prodding.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby SSridhar » 12 Oct 2016 18:06

panduranghari wrote:The best bet for China is to topple the current lot and get islamists in. It works for them in Bakistan. It will work for them in BD.

That's what they plan to do and Pakistan would be of immense help in that project. This is how Pakistan ingrains itself to its benefactors.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby SSridhar » 12 Oct 2016 18:10

After criticizing India for sealing border, China now offers to help reduce India-Pakistan tensions - Shailaja Neelakantan, ToI
A Chinese government official reportedly said Beijing is ready to provide "full assistance" to resolve the conflict between its ally Pakistan+ , and India, a Pakistani TV channel reported {so, we can't trust this report altogether, but if true, it means that China thinks that we are clueless stupids} late yesterday.

"We will try our level best to resolve the conflict between Pakistan and India. We are ready to provide our full assistance," said Yuwan, the Chinese Foreign Ministry's counsellor for China-Asia, according to channel24, a private TV channel in Pakistan.

The TV report mentioned the official by just one name, that is, Yuwan.

He reportedly also said there is an "imbalance of power" in South Asia currently, but he didn't specify what he meant.

"The hostility not only affects both states but also affects the entire South Asian region," Yuwan said.

Yuwan made these comments the same day that China's state-run media said India's move to completely seal its border with Pakistan was a " very irrational decision+ ". Home Minister Rajnath Singh said last week that the 3,323 km-long border between India and Pakistan will be completely sealed+ by December 2018. This decision of India's, Global Times wrote, will further complicate India-China relations, because of Beijing's "all-weather" strategic ties with Islamabad.

Beijing's "all-weather strategic ties" include blocking a move to sanction Pakistan-based terrorist Masood Azhar. They also include China building the $51 billion China-Pakistan Economic Corridor+ (CPEC), which will pass through a restive Pakistan-Occupied-Kashmir (POK).

The fate of CPEC has come under a cloud lately. Last month, India conducted surgical strikes on seven terrorist camps in POK, in retaliation for a terror attack on an army brigade headquarters in Uri in Jammu and Kashmir on September 18. In addition, China is reportedly worried about the fate of CPEC in view of the general security situation there.

Addressing the CPEC issue, Yuwan, the Chinese Foreign Ministry's counsellor for China-Asia, said his country is fully resolved to complete the project.

"The project is a game changer and with cooperation of Pakistan, it will be accomplished," Yuwan said.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby schinnas » 12 Oct 2016 18:49

Of the recent Indian foreign policy triumphs, nothing is more critical than a turn around in India Bangladesh relations and India securiing incremental connectivity rights to NE states. India has managed to neutralize or contain several rabidly anti-Indian elements in Bangladesh and institutionalized several pacts of long term significance. With Bangladesh firmly supporting India in a tussle with Pakistan, the pukis lose all their arguments which are based on two nation theory.

Thats why China which does not share a land border with Bangladesh is trying hard to help its munna by trying to effect a rapproch with Bangladesh. It is unlikely to be any more effective than Indian overtures to Mongolia! Bangladesh is too much dependent on India - geographically, resources (water flowing from India), forex (remittances by Bangladeshis working in India), trade and people-to-people contacts to even try anything to antogonize India.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby SSridhar » 14 Oct 2016 13:26

India should not use BRICS summit to isolate Pakistan: Chinese expert - Economic Times

Chinese 'experts' have been giving all sorts of advice to GoI in recent days. One says, Balochistan issue would cause a war between India & China, another says that if Chinese fireworks are boycotted it would affect India-China relationship and yet another says India should not isolate Pakistan. The Chinese can easily be questioned on all these and then they will give very strange, funny and hilarious answers. Truly, the Chinese diplomacy is twisted!

India should not politicise the upcoming eighth BRICS summit to solve its bilateral disputes and not expect member nations to isolate and brand Pakistan as "supporter of terrorism", a Chinese expert has suggested.

"One of the key items at this year's summit will be anti-terrorism. All BRICS members do not want to solve bilateral disputes through politicised multilateral platforms." Liu Zongy, a senior fellow at the Shanghai Institutes for International Studies, said without naming India and Pakistan.

"As for the decades-long Kashmir issue, BRICS countries can only play a mediating role rather than support one side while isolating the other. They cannot simply label a country as "supporter of terrorism," Liu wrote in Global Times.


The article comes days after China indicated that it opposed India's effort at the UN to declare Pakistan-based Jaish-e-Mohammad chief Masood Azhar - chief plotter of Mumbai and Pathankot terror attacks - as a terrorist.

Following the September 18 terrorist attack on an Indian Army base in Uri, Jammu and Kashmir, New Delhi has launched a campaign of sorts to isolate Pakistan in the global forum.

India is likely to highlight the issue of terrorism emanating from Pakistan in the two-day BRICS summit, beginning from Sunday in Goa.

Recently, India conveyed its unhappiness to Russia over latter holding a joint military drill with Pakistan.

"One of the highlights of this year's Goa summit will be the meeting between BRICS leaders and the heads of state of the Bay of Bengal Initiative for Multi-Sectoral Technical and Economic Cooperation (BIMSTEC)," the write-up said.

"It is worth noting that some members of the South Asian Association for Regional Cooperation (SAARC) are not included in the BIMSTEC mechanism, while some ASEAN nations are formal members of BIMSTEC. The participation of ASEAN (Association for South East Asian Nations) countries shows the exclusivity of the summit, while the absence of some SAARC countries weakens the tolerance of regional major powers," it noted.

"Through the BRICS summit, India wants to advance its 'Act East' policy and promote linkage between India and some South Asian and Southeast Asian countries, which are also partners in China's 'One Belt and One Road' initiative."

"Hopefully, a close relationship between New Delhi and these countries will promote their linkage with China and pave the way for a win-win scenario," it added.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby IndraD » 14 Oct 2016 15:57

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/worl ... 845755.cms

China is set to sign off on loans worth over $24 billion to Bangladesh during President Xi Jinping's visit on Friday, Dhaka's biggest foreign credit line to date that will help it build power plants, a seaport and railways.
Xi's trip, the first by a Chinese president in 30 years, is aimed at boosting China's involvement+ in infrastructure projects at a time when India is pushing investments of its own in Bangladesh, a country New Delhi considers its area of influence.
Japan, helped by India, has also got involved in Bangladesh, offering finance at low interest rates to build a port and power complex, sharpening competition for influence in the country of 160 million people located on the Bay of Bengal.
China plans to finance around 25 projects, including a 1,320 megawatt (MW) power plant, and is also keen to build a deep sea port, Bangladesh junior finance minister MA Mannan said.
"Xi's visit will set a new milestone. (A) record amount of loan agreements will be signed during the visit, roughly $24 billion," he told Reuters.
Among the proposed projects are highways and information technology development, he said. "Our infrastructure needs are big, so we need huge loans."
China's Jiangsu Etern Co Ltd signed a deal worth $1.1 billion to strengthen the power grid network in Bangladesh, the company said on Thursday.
Beijing is especially keen to revive a plan to build a deep sea port in Sonadia which has been on hold for years, officials said.
Xi is visiting Bangladesh on his way to a BRICS summit+ of the world's leading emerging economies in Goa, India.
His trip comes at a time when Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi is leading efforts to boost ties with neighbouring countries, from Sri Lanka to Nepal, by offering them a share of India's fast-growing economy.
Last year Modi announced a $2 billion credit line during a visit to Dhaka, but China looks set to go well beyond that.
Zhao Gancheng, director of South Asia Studies at Shanghai Institute for International Studies, said both India and China supported development in Bangladesh, and that it did not have to be one or the other.
"I really don't think there is a zero sum game going on in Bangladesh between China and India. Bangladesh welcomes both Chinese and Indian investment..." said Zhao.

Bangladesh has backed Xi's "One Belt, One Road" initiative to boost trade and transport links across Asia and into Europe, seeing it as an opportunity to lift growth.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Austin » 14 Oct 2016 18:04

very interesting

WikiLeaks reveals Hillary Clinton said US could ‘ring China with missile defense’

If North Korea successfully obtains a ballistic missile, it could threaten not just American allies in the Pacific, “but they could actually reach Hawaii and the west coast theoretically,” Clinton said.

“We’re going to ring China with missile defense. We’re going to put more of our fleet in the area,” Clinton said in a 2013 speech. “So China, come on. You either control them or we’re going to have to defend against them.”

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby SSridhar » 14 Oct 2016 19:02


It has begun to happen.

A second BMD Early Warning Radar (advanced X-band radar system) was installed by the US in Japan in the south, at an Air Self-Defense Force base in Kyoto Prefecture, in c. 2015 complementing the one already in the north of the country. The US also decided to deploy two more Aegis-equipped destroyers in Japan by c. 2017 bringing to seven the total number of such ships. Last month news leaked that Japan is planning for a THAAD installation.

The US is installing THAAD system in South Korea.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby shashankk » 14 Oct 2016 22:39

Ahead of Xi Jinping's visit, China refuses to budge on India's NSG bid, Masood Azhar's banning

BEIJING: On the eve of President Xi Jinping's India visit, China on Friday stuck to its guns saying that there was no change in its stand on India's NSG membership bid and New Delhi's attempts to get JeM chief Masood Azhar designated as a terrorist by the UN.


http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Ahead-of-Xi-Jinpings-visit-China-refuses-to-budge-on-Indias-NSG-bid-Masood-Azhars-banning/articleshow/54856302.cms

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby GShankar » 14 Oct 2016 22:45

While the summit is ongoing, India should let a few vietnamese pilots test drive LCA and MKI. Especially with test firing of bmos-m and astra from mki.

At the same time, be prepared to face uninvited pigs and lizards and also conduct surgeries as needed.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby shashankk » 14 Oct 2016 22:50

I am not able to locate the source or verify authenticity but on Fb I read about sale of Brahmos to Vietnam.If its true we have sent a message across.
Hope its true.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby RKumar » 15 Oct 2016 00:57

We should fu*cking halal the pig when BRICS meeting is on going ... if not this time then plan a gift for next time.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby SSridhar » 15 Oct 2016 04:55

India, China to discuss NSG membership on Saturday - Nyanima Basu, Business Line

Prime Minister Narendra Modi will once again raise the issue of India’s membership at the Nuclear Suppliers’ Group (NSG) with Chinese President Xi Jinping during a bilateral meeting tomorrow.

The meeting will take place on the sidelines of the BRICS Summit to be held in Goa over the weekend.

India has tried to coax China several times before explaining the reasons and significance of its membership at the NSG. However, this time India has a “greater bargaining power” against China because of its membership at the Missiles Technology Control Regime (MTCR), where China is seeking a membership, sources told BusinessLine.

Incidentally, India is the only country in the BRICS grouping which is not an NSG member.

During the meeting, Modi is expected to explain to Xi the criticality of India’s NSG membership to attain its energy security objectives. Both leaders might also finalise the next round of meeting on this issue for which a separate dialogue mechanism has been launched, sources said.

During the last meeting of the NSG held in June, China had objected to India’s membership. Apart from China, a handful of other countries also objected the move.

Ahead of both leaders meeting on Saturday, China said it is “ready” to discuss the NSG issue. Both the countries have initiated separate dialogue on the issue.

Yet another issue that has become a major bone of contention between both countries is that of banning of terror outfit Jaish-e-Mohammed’s chief and alleged mastermind of Pathankot attack Masood Azhar by the UN.

Although China has made it clear that it will not remove its veto from the UN Sanctions Committee in imposing a ban on Azhar stating that it is not in favour of any country making “political gains in the name of counter-terrorism” India believes this stance can be reversed.

The NSG issue was discussed at length between both the leaders when they last met on the sidelines of G-20 in Hangzhou in September.

Apart from these two burning issues, India is also expected to register its “strong objection” on the China’s plan to construct an economic corridor that is proposed to pass through Pakistan-occupied Kashmir (PoK).

Besides, India will also raise the issue of rising trade deficit with China and seek investments from it through the proposed industrial parks.


India and China recently held the fourth round of the Strategic Economic Dialogue (SED).

During this, India had offered huge investment opportunities in the renewable energy sector by way of participating through equity support, offsetting hedging cost, taking up of masala bonds, partnering in the solar projects.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby shashankk » 15 Oct 2016 09:42

Kind of noise coming from chinese media about India makes me feel we are pressing the right nerves and they are slowly getting rattled.
India is adamant against free trade agreement within BRICS and chinese cancelled a trade related talk today.
First they ignore you, then they talk about you and then you win.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Bhurishravas » 15 Oct 2016 11:43

BTW can some one tell me how a ban on Masood Azhar by UN would help ? UN have already banned his organisation which means he is effectively banned as well as he leads the organisation if not explicitly.

Because it brings pressure on the pakis to act against him. If pakis dont act,which is more likely, one can point out that they are harbouring a UN designated terrorist. Like with Hafiz Saeed.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Austin » 15 Oct 2016 11:59

Bhurishravas wrote:
BTW can some one tell me how a ban on Masood Azhar by UN would help ? UN have already banned his organisation which means he is effectively banned as well as he leads the organisation if not explicitly.

Because it brings pressure on the pakis to act against him. If pakis dont act,which is more likely, one can point out that they are harbouring a UN designated terrorist. Like with Hafiz Saeed.


But they never did any thing to Hafiz Saeed or Dawood inspite of all those UN ban ?

These UN ban works for West where they can pressurise and deport people , UN ban just gives them a good fig leaf but for us these ban dont do any thing , The only way to get these pigs is via Special Ops

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby SSridhar » 15 Oct 2016 13:06

Austin wrote:But they never did any thing to Hafiz Saeed or Dawood inspite of all those UN ban ?

These UN ban works for West where they can pressurise and deport people , UN ban just gives them a good fig leaf but for us these ban dont do any thing , The only way to get these pigs is via Special Ops

I agree.

But, we should continue the efforts for several reasons until he is either eliminated through Special Ops or is detained and brought to India, because:

  • That's the right thing to do, especially when Masood Azhar is a great admirer of OBL, was a member of OBL's IIF (Islamic International Front for Jihad Against the Crusaders and the Jewish People) and arranged for the killing of 18 American soldiers in Somalia in c. 1993. His elaborate confession lies with the Indian police when he was detained here. The UNSC 1267 list is meant especially for Al Qaeda sympathizers and he deserves to be there especially when his organization is already under sanctions under the same provision.
  • We must bring as much discredit to Pakistan internationally as possible and Maulana Masood Azhar, as a big fish, eminently fits that bill.
  • We never know when his name, under the 1267 list, would be beneficial to us in the future.He needs to be brought back to India to face trial on three cases, at least, AFAIK. One, travelling to India under a false passport for which he was originally detained, Two, for organizing an armed resistance to India in Kashmir. Three, for organizing his escape through international terrorism, hijack and killing of an Indian citizen (Rupin Katyal)
  • We must never let go of an opportunity to pile up pressure on Pakistan. We have been at Masood Azhar since c. 2008 and China is the only stumbling block since then.
  • Masood Azhar's case gives us an opportunity to expose the duplicity of the Chinese as well

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby habal » 15 Oct 2016 15:32

Ban on Masood Azhar can/will be followed by UN sanctions against Pakistan.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Austin » 15 Oct 2016 16:40

SSridhar wrote:
Austin wrote:But they never did any thing to Hafiz Saeed or Dawood inspite of all those UN ban ?

These UN ban works for West where they can pressurise and deport people , UN ban just gives them a good fig leaf but for us these ban dont do any thing , The only way to get these pigs is via Special Ops

I agree.

But, we should continue the efforts for several reasons until he is either eliminated through Special Ops or is detained and brought to India, because:

  • That's the right thing to do, especially when Masood Azhar is a great admirer of OBL, was a member of OBL's IIF (Islamic International Front for Jihad Against the Crusaders and the Jewish People) and arranged for the killing of 18 American soldiers in Somalia in c. 1993. His elaborate confession lies with the Indian police when he was detained here. The UNSC 1267 list is meant especially for Al Qaeda sympathizers and he deserves to be there especially when his organization is already under sanctions under the same provision.
  • We must bring as much discredit to Pakistan internationally as possible and Maulana Masood Azhar, as a big fish, eminently fits that bill.
  • We never know when his name, under the 1267 list, would be beneficial to us in the future.He needs to be brought back to India to face trial on three cases, at least, AFAIK. One, travelling to India under a false passport for which he was originally detained, Two, for organizing an armed resistance to India in Kashmir. Three, for organizing his escape through international terrorism, hijack and killing of an Indian citizen (Rupin Katyal)
  • We must never let go of an opportunity to pile up pressure on Pakistan. We have been at Masood Azhar since c. 2008 and China is the only stumbling block since then.
  • Masood Azhar's case gives us an opportunity to expose the duplicity of the Chinese as well


Look all that is fine , bring pressure on Pakistan is OK.

I am looking at practical result since 1992 Mumbai blast , we could not bring any single accused from Pakistan to justice there were many acts of terrorism between then and till date both on civilians and army in India in Mumbai Delhi etc and in valley.

The only one I recollect that ever came back is Yakub Menon and we know from his own court statement he came on his own accord out of his own conscious

All this let me put a ban on this guy or that guy has produced zero results other then some talking point over chai biscuit. The guys organisation is already under UN ban and by association the person who heads it.

Let's us be practical and put effort where it can give result rather then do something for chai pe charcha.

Let's take out dawood , mazoor , Hafiz and all these folks in Pakistan via special ops , these guys roam around and according to India's own admission some of the address are known.

Let's get out of this childish rant to ban this or that via UN or US or EU , these folks don't get impacted by such verbal toilet paper value thing but let's be pro- active and hunt them in their own backyard

Look even OBL was banned under UN but till US went inside Pakistan and took him out there was no way he was affected or was Pakistan , infact Pakistan did not face any ban from US inspite of the fact he was caught near Rawalpindi with his pants down , let's not be navieve about such things

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby SSridhar » 16 Oct 2016 15:10

China develops world's smallest nuclear plant to take control of South China Sea - ToI
China has developed a nuclear power plant so small it can fit inside a shipping container - to help Beijing's efforts to take control of disputed islands in the South China Sea+ . The reactor, which was partly funded by the People's Liberation Army, will be used to supply electricity to new settlements and desalinate sea water for drinking.

Many of the islands such as the Spratly's are little more than rocks in the sea, but a number of countries in the region claim ownership as they are key to control of valuable fishing grounds and possibly mineral rights. The reactor is based on a design used in 1970s Soviet submarines, which one British expert described as "fundamentally unsafe".

The South China Morning Post reported the new reactor, believed to be the smallest ever created for civilian use, had been developed by researchers at the Chinese Academy of Sciences' Institute of Nuclear Energy Safety Technology. They told the paper they hoped to send the first reactor to the South China Sea in the next five years and it could also be sold to countries in Asia, Europe, Africa and Middle East.

"Part of our funding came from the military, but we hope - and it's our ultimate goal - that the technology will eventually benefit civilian users," Professor Huang Qunying said. The researchers said the technology used was similar to lead-cooled thermal reactors used by Soviet submarines.

And a marine environment researcher at the Ocean University of China, who asked not to be named, also expressed concerns to the South China Morning Post.

"Many fish and marine creatures will not be able to deal with the dramatic change of environment caused by massive desalination and the rise of sea temperatures caused by a nuclear reactor," she said. "If a nuclear disaster happened in the South China Sea, it would not have an immediate effect on people living on the mainland owing to it being a great distance away.

"But the radioactive waste would enter the bodies of fish and other marine creatures and likely end up on our dining tables. Sea currents could also carry the waste to distant shores."

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby IndraD » 17 Oct 2016 02:52

China scuttles attempt to mention terror groups like Jaish-e-Muhammed and Lashkar-e-Taiba in declaration while al Nusra and all found mention ! http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 887064.cms


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