Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

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SBajwa
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby SBajwa » 26 Jul 2017 23:56

WTF is Indian women's cricket team carrying a logo of appo a chinese company. BCCI needs to explain!

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby pankajs » 27 Jul 2017 00:02

UlanBatori wrote:Mao-coat shivering:

After Dalai Lama speaks at California varsity, Chinese students worry Beijing won't recognize their degrees
Can't that be classified as micro aggression or some such fraud?

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby UlanBatori » 27 Jul 2017 00:07

The key word you missed is "Chinese" before "students". They figured out that they could use this excuse to get Refugee status, no need to wait for H1B, Labor Certification, Green Card etc.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby sudhan » 27 Jul 2017 00:07

SBajwa wrote:WTF is Indian women's cricket team carrying a logo of appo a chinese company. BCCI needs to explain!


Oppo, if i am not mistaken has paid a huge sum to sponsor indian cricket. The IPL is sponsored by Vivo (sister concern of oppo) for 2000 crores

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby g.sarkar » 27 Jul 2017 00:18

http://www.dailyo.in/politics/doklam-ch ... 18570.html
Showing restraint is India's best offence against China
China's diplomatic and media-channelled tongue-lashing against India reflects its frustration.
External affairs minister Sushma Swaraj's statement in Parliament on the Doklam plateau standoff should be commended. It was restrained, unlike the belligerent statements emanating from the Chinese foreign office. By declaring that China's road building activity in Doklam was a threat to India's security, she sent a firm message that India will resist Chinese attempts to determine the Sikkim-Tibet-Bhutan tri-junction unilaterally in violation of its understandings both with Bhutan and India.
Approach
Her approach that the solution to the impasse in Doklam lay in both countries withdrawing their soldiers to previous positions and restoring the status quo ante is eminently reasonable. She has implicitly dismissed China's imperious demand that India must first withdraw its troops from "Chinese territory" prior to any dialogue.
This attempt to dictate terms to India by a country that has deliberately triggered the current confrontation through a calculated act that it knew would attract an Indian response has been rejected. India and China have had a conflict in this general area in 1967 but, more pertinently in terms of more recent experience, the two countries were locked in a confrontation in Depsang (2013) and Chumar (2014).
China has, therefore, not walked into the current border standoff as an unwary party falling victim to unprovoked warmongering by a third country. Swaraj's statement is significant as it follows a spate of dire warnings from China, officially and through its state controlled press, that India should heed the lesson of 1962, that China will not compromise on the issue as it involves its sovereignty, that as its patience eventually runs out, China will use force to evict the Indian troops and so on.
If the purpose of employing thunderous language was to intimidate India and unnerve its leadership, the external affairs minister's statement shows these tactics have failed. The government is showing signs of confidence in dealing with the situation despite China's psychological warfare against us getting a boost from some Indian commentators who have purveyed the Chinese line with some gusto and much of our media that has been uncritically disseminating China's propagandist versions of the standoff and echoing its menacing statements as well.
Preposterous explanations have been given by some China apologists in our country that China is building the road in Doklam because its infrastructure companies have run out of orders, and as its military have large budgets to spend, some powerfully connected construction company is trying to fill its order book! One thought that the humongous Belt and Road Initiative, the $50 billion China intends to spend on infrastructure in Pakistan, and $20 billion that it is committed to spending on developing ports to facilitate the use of the Arctic route for trade with Europe provide massive opportunities for Chinese infrastructure companies.That a line like this can be purveyed, fed probably by the Chinese embassy, with accusations against the Prime Minister for making a series of provocative moves against China and peddling scenarios of a crushing, humiliating defeat at the hands of the Chinese of our unprepared army headed by a politically appointed army chief, shows the extent to which we are ready to sap the national morale to the advantage of an external adversary because of internal political prejudices.
Reality
In reality, China's diplomatic and media-channelled tongue-lashing against India reflects its frustration at not being in a position to take India head-on militarily in a localised conflict in this theatre without suffering heavy casualties. Talk of evicting Indian soldiers from this area by force is just bluster.
If it opens a front in a disputed area elsewhere where it is advantageously placed - though we will be able to monitor a Chinese build up through our technical means and prepare ourselves - it will be seen as responsible for broadening the conflict. If we, in return, opted to retaliate in disputed areas where we have an advantage, it will mean a further step on the escalatory ladder. China has no easy options just as we do not either.
A sane Chinese approach, in its own interest, would be to resolve the current standoff diplomatically on an equitable basis and tone down its trade-mark arrogant and crude behaviour. If the Chinese up the ante in Kashmir or the Northeast, they must think of their political vulnerabilities in Tibet and Taiwan.
Reservations
Much is being made by some in Indian quarters of Bhutan's reticence on the developing situation as a sign of its reservations about our intervention. This too contributes to the Chinese game of weakening India's position. It is politic on Bhutan's part not to get caught too much in the cross-fire between China and India and let the latter handle the situation.
.....

Gautam
Last edited by g.sarkar on 27 Jul 2017 00:46, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby g.sarkar » 27 Jul 2017 00:23

UlanBatori wrote:The key word you missed is "Chinese" before "students". They figured out that they could use this excuse to get Refugee status, no need to wait for H1B, Labor Certification, Green Card etc.

UlanBatoriji,
They never go back, refugee or not. They can always get their dream job as a waiter/dishwasher in the local Sugar restaurant. So solly.
Gautam

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby g.sarkar » 27 Jul 2017 00:30

Botswana? Apni aukat batadiya na?
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-chin ... SKBN1AB14Y
China steps up warning to Botswana over Dalai Lama visit
BEIJING (Reuters) - China stepped up its warning to Botswana on Wednesday over a planned visit by exiled Tibetan spiritual leader the Dalai Lama next month, demanding the African nation respect China's core interests.
The Dalai Lama, reviled by Beijing as a dangerous separatist, is expected to address a human rights conference in the capital, Gaborone, on Aug. 17-19 and will also meet Botswana's president. China is a major investor in Botswana's economy.
China has already "clearly" expressed its point of view about the Dalai Lama's visit, Foreign Ministry spokesman Lu Kang told a daily news briefing.
...
Gautam

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Vivek K » 27 Jul 2017 01:01

I wonder if the current episode is a test of Indian resolve for the bigger test to come - Chinese presence and construction in POK.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby pankajs » 27 Jul 2017 01:03

The clearest map of the area under dispute

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/26/worl ... hutan.html
Image

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Ashokk » 27 Jul 2017 01:17

DrRatnadip wrote:http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1058178.shtml
India’s intrusion into Chinese territory angers veterans of the 1962 battle


The chinese seem to be running out of threats, they seem to be scraping the bottom of the barrel now :mrgreen:

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Mort Walker » 27 Jul 2017 01:46

This might be the time to ask the US to expedite deliveries of predators, M777 Howitzer and the C17. Also if Beijing keeps complaining, can India lease other equipment to be prepared for hostilities.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby UlanBatori » 27 Jul 2017 02:05

Vivek K wrote:I wonder if the current episode is a test of Indian resolve for the bigger test to come - Chinese presence and construction in POK.


Perhaps its the other way round. India taking the first step in a long-overdue confrontation of the bully? It's the resolve of Indian people that is being tested. Start making the Chinese feel some pain in this, and we may find sudden lack of enthu for the PLA to build in POK.
This is why I am saying: they have $59B of vulnerability per year in India. India only risks 12B. Push about $45B out and the balance of power in Beijing will shift. Other countries may start catching on, staring a Himalayan Avalanche. Great that Botswana seems to be displaying more *****s than powerful but spineless Moth Offrika.
Again, China may be making a big mistake by bullying small African nations.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby ramana » 27 Jul 2017 02:22

Creating hashtag #IndiaBoycottChineseGoods on Twitter

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby UlanBatori » 27 Jul 2017 02:55

http://www.tribuneindia.com/news/cities ... 42941.html
The protesters raised slogans against China at Sri Ram Chowk and made a bonfire of China-made goods. The protesters said they would persuade shopkeepers in the city not to sell China-made goods.
Kishan Lal Sharma, president, Deendayal Upadhyay Smriti, said, “China is giving aids to Pakistan and its troops intruded into the border on a number of occasions. It is condemnable. ... Indian citizens should boycott the Chinese goods and retaliate in the same way.”
“We want that no students should use the China-made stationery items. People should boycott the Chinese goods after seeing what is happening at the border,” added Sharma
The protestors said, “The China government is trying to threaten us with its military power. As citizens of India, it becomes our sole responsibility that we should not help the Chinese economy in growing.” — OC

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby samirdiw » 27 Jul 2017 02:57

One observation over the incident in the last few days is that the Indian media has found to be clueless in the role it plays. Whether its the media by themselves or whether on directions by the government the complete silence other than reporting what Chinese and other world media mentioned the previous day is leading to the same propaganda loss as in 1962 (more obvious in case a war breaks out). Thus the reader's mind is fresh with statements like 'India has entered Chinese territory' for days now with nothing to counter from the Indian media side.

There is no need to rachet up a war hysteria like the Global Times has done but repeatedly stating the view from India/Bhutan point is highly crucial both from a propaganda as well as the National psyche. After being shocked a few days the Chinese media seems to have fine-tuned its message while the only reasonably firm statement of India view is the media's reporting of Sushma Swaraj.

Even a newspaper as Korean times went through the pain of reporting the fallacy in China's stand and called out the hypocrisy http://www.business-standard.com/articl ... 774_1.html

It is important that the Indian media don't lose the battle before the Jawans and civilians who could pick up a gun have a chance. What is suggested is a daily repetition of
a. China invaded Bhutan territory
b. Even if China disputes the territory it shouldn't have unilaterally tried to change the status quo
c. China keeps saying the terriory is Chinese but then what was the 24 rounds of talks with Bhutan for
d. It is shameful for a huge country like China to even have a territory dispute with a tiny country like Bhutan
e. China is territory hungry
f. China seems to be referring to some 1890 treaty with the British where the tri-junction is best unclear. At the same time China has not had a problem overlooking other British agreements like McMohan and Johnson lines. Also China has gone against the 2012 treaty.
g. China refers to India entering Bhutan controlled area like a precedent to enter Indian Kashmir on the Pakistan side. Again no one has said that a better analogy might be when it entered Korea against the US.

Its time for our media folks to do some better homework and understand the game and not relinquish on their role.
Last edited by samirdiw on 27 Jul 2017 03:07, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby UlanBatori » 27 Jul 2017 02:59

Easier to invade Beijing than to knock some sense and pride and spine into desi English-aping media

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby shyamal » 27 Jul 2017 03:04

ramana wrote:Creating hashtag #IndiaBoycottChineseGoods on Twitter


Ramana ji,
I have bumped up the Be Indian Buy Indian thread.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=7258&p=2190836#p2190836

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby pankajs » 27 Jul 2017 03:05

http://indianexpress.com/article/explai ... u-4763892/
Simply put: Where things stand on the Dolam plateau

Image

So where exactly is Dolam plateau?

The ridge line running from north to south, on which Batang La and Gymochen are located, has a pass known as Doka La in between these two places (La means a mountain pass). Another mountain ridge runs east from Batang La, via Merug La and Sinche La to the Amo Chu river. It then turns southward and runs along the Amo Chu. There is a ridge line that runs east/southeast from Gymochen towards/along the Amo Chu river. This ridge is called the Jampheri ridge.

These ridge lines, rising about 500 m higher than the flat area in the centre, enclose a 89 sq km bowl, which is the Dolam plateau. A rivulet called the Torsa nala rises from the base of Doka La and zigzags through the plateau east to meet the Amo Chu river.

What is this “motorable road” that the Chinese are supposed to have built?

The main road leading into the Chumbi Valley is the Chinese state highway S-204, which winds down south from Shigatse (or Xigaze) in Tibet to a point called Yatung (or Yadong), located northeast of the Nathu La pass. From Yatung, a blacktop metalled road goes to Asam, deeper inside the Chumbi Valley. Several unmetalled tracks emanate from Asam, one of which comes up to a point close to Doka La. This 20 km long track is classified as a “Class-5 track”, meaning it is capable of taking a vehicle of load class 5, which is a jeep or a small load carrier. The track was reportedly constructed by the Chinese as early as in 2003 (though some sources claim it was completed in 2005). The statement by Bhutan called this Class-5 track a “motorable road”.

At the end of this 20 km track, is a “turning point”, a wider area where large vehicles can reverse and return. This turning point is a few metres away from the Indian Army post at Doka La, around 3.5 km short of Gymochen, and approximately 3 km from Batang La.

Do Chinese patrols visit this area?

Chinese military patrols have been regularly coming up to the turning point on the Class 5 track from Asam. Chinese graziers often come up to the Torsa nala. Chinese military patrols have also been known to go almost up to the Jampheri ridge, but this is rare. In a sense, while the de jure border is aligned with Batang La, the de facto border has been at Doka La.

What happened on the plateau in June?

On June 8, PLA soldiers came in and destroyed two self help bunkers (SHBs) on the eastern slope of the ridge, slightly north of Doka La. These SHBs technically fall in Bhutanese territory, but are needed by the Indian soldiers to cover the plateau with effective fire. The Chinese had earlier destroyed two SHBs in the same area in 2008.

On June 16, some 100 men arrived at the ‘turning point’ with 4-5 bulldozers and earthmoving machines to begin work on extending the track southward towards the Jampheri ridge. The Royal Bhutan Army has a fair weather post called Chela Post on the ridge; Indian and Bhutanese army patrols “link” on Jampheri ridge every month. Bhutan claimed in a statement that the Chinese were building a track up to its Zompelri military camp on the ridge.

As the Chinese track construction party began survey and alignment work on the Dolam plateau, Indian soldiers came down from Doka La and formed a human chain to physically prevent the Chinese from working. The Indians also moved down earthmoving machinery with an aim to undo the work to be done by the Chinese. These dozers were highlighted in the pictures that the Chinese Foreign Ministry released on June 29.

While the equipment continues to be on standby, soldiers from both sides have pitched tents in the area. After the first couple of days, the Chinese have not attempted to resume construction, and the stand-off continues. There are 300-350 Indian soldiers in the area under a Commanding Officer. The Chinese troops are from the PLA’s 6 Border Defence regiment (Unit-77649).
Last edited by pankajs on 27 Jul 2017 03:14, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Rudradev » 27 Jul 2017 03:06

UlanBatori wrote:Easier to invade Beijing than to knock some sense and pride and spine into desi English-aping media


The first step would be one tight (video'd and youtubed) slap on the face of all the lazy-ass cut-and-paste Lutyens Journalists who blindly borrow aggandizing metaphors from Western writers to describe China in Indian media stories. Like saying "The Dragon Breathes Fire", when in fact they are referring to Global Times or SCMP 50-cent hacks chattering shrill propaganda with all the gravitas of offended chipmunks.

You can bet the Chinese media metaphors for India are nothing quite as flattering or fear-inspiring. More like "half-naked, starving, publicly-defecating Yinduo coolies", or something. But our Ingliss-Spewing Commentators, sleepwalking their way through yet another pay-by-the-word OpEd, invariably stick with such idioms as "challenging the might of the Dragon". What qqqqqqqqqqqqtiyas.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby SriKumar » 27 Jul 2017 04:03

DrRatnadip wrote:http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1058178.shtml

India’s intrusion into Chinese territory angers veterans of the 1962 battle

India's trespass into Chinese territory has angered many veterans in China who fought the war on the Sino-Indian border 55 years ago.
I'd say, given the amount of bullshit that has come out of the Global Times in the last few weeks, it time we called it for what it really is: 'The Gobar Times', which is a more accurate representation of its content. #GobarTimes.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby samirdiw » 27 Jul 2017 04:28

Takes a french man to do the research. Confirming the points made earlier.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/indiahome/in ... hutan.html

The first lesson of the present episode is that India is eons behind China in terms of communication.
Though Beijing broke its pledge to Bhutan and India, the constant threatening statements by their spokesperson made it sound as if Beijing was the aggrieved party.
In 2003, China's Central Military Commission approved the concept of 'Three Warfares', namely: (1) the coordinated use of strategic psychological operations; (2) overt and covert media manipulation; and (3) legal warfare designed to manipulate strategies, defence policies, and perceptions of target audiences abroad.
The Chinese spokespersons efficiently demonstrated how, even when wrong, you can make it appear that it is the other parties, Bhutan and India in this case, who are the culprits.


According to Sikkimese records, Gipmochi is in Batang La, 5 km north of Doka La.
It means the territory south of Batang La is indeed Bhutanese, and therefore India did not 'trespass' into Tibet. So, why all this fuss?


One thing that might help the Indian/Bhutanese stand is if India can ask the Bhutanese to also send some of their troops to Doklam. After all, this is to (also) protect their territory!

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Muns » 27 Jul 2017 05:07

Sikkim standoff : ‘Main Schemer’, Ajit Doval visit won’t sway China: Chinese Media.

http://www.india-aware.com/sikkim-standoff-main-schemer-ajit-doval-visit-wont-sway-china-chinese-media/
China’s state media struck two different notes with the China Daily hopeful of a peaceful resolution to the deadlock with India while the Global Times said the “main schemer’s” trip wouldn’t sway Beijing.

The BRICS National Security Advisers’ meeting is a routine conference held in preparation for the BRICS Summit, and is not a platform to address Sino-Indian border skirmishes.”

In an editorial titled “Doval visit won’t sway China over border standoff”, the Global Times said, “The BRICS National Security Advisers’ meeting is a routine conference held in preparation for the BRICS Summit.”

Doval is to visit China for a meeting of NSAs from BRICS countries – Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa – on July 27-28. He is expected to discuss the standoff with his Chinese counterpart Yang Jiechi

The Global Times, part of the Communist Party’s publication group, said in its editorial that Beijing will not “talk” until Indian troops were withdrawn.

“New Delhi should give up its illusions, and Doval’s Beijing visit is most certainly not an opportunity to settle the standoff in accordance with India’s will,” it said. It added that India should not take lightly yesterday’s comments by the Chinese Defence ministry that New Delhi should not “harbour any illusions” and withdraw troops.


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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby UlanBatori » 27 Jul 2017 06:17

All hot air. If Meseuir Le Phrogg could see it then any nincompoop can also see it. China's reaction is absolutely familiar to anyone who has caught a deliberate thief in the act. Contrition etc are only in the movies. The standard reaction is exactly what we are seeing: abusive, shrill, "defensive", all blaring out to the world the proof of guilt and the tantrum-throwing at being caught red-handed. The chins have no business being in that entire area at all. "Disputed border" just means "illegally occupied area".

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby samirdiw » 27 Jul 2017 07:07

What are folks thoughts on the country creating a volunteer army with some basic training that will allow civilians to participate alongside the main army?

Ask the citizens to join after they take an oath where the country defense is above any ideology to prevent wrong folks from entering. Provide an initial 30-day training on using an assault rifle plus basic army training and then every month once report for continued training. This could be in every district and be open to both sexes. This will also harden the national psyche to face any kind of threat internal or external.

A back of the envelope calc gives us the following
consider folks between 15 - 45 (older up to 55 can also join if reasonably fit ). If we assume 200million in each 10-year bracket up to 60 then we start with 600 million
Eliminate 30% for those who may be ideologically opposed - remaining 420 million
Take 50% off for women (some may join and should be encouraged) - remaining ~ 200 million
So from a base of 200 million even if 10% join that's 20 million trained folks as the reserve that can support the main army without any additional expense other than training, ammo and food supplies in case of war.

Imagine some 5 million additional warriors on the Chinese border along with the Indian army. Why wait for the war of attrition when we can be alongside the main force from the beginning itself?

Will also solve the caste problem once and for all when everyone becomes a Kshatriya. :wink: Tough situations call for innovative solutions.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby shiv » 27 Jul 2017 07:15

samirdiw wrote:One thing that might help the Indian/Bhutanese stand is if India can ask the Bhutanese to also send some of their troops to Doklam. After all, this is to (also) protect their territory!

It is necessary to have balls and not hide behind the fig leaf of token Bhutanese troops to "give credibility". We sit there to protect our interests. Not for optics.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby samirdiw » 27 Jul 2017 07:25

I get what you are saying and we should be able to hold with or without the Bhutanese. A few Bhutanese troops will completely remove any credibility for the Chinese in front of the international community.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby shiv » 27 Jul 2017 07:39

samirdiw wrote:I get what you are saying and we should be able to hold with or without the Bhutanese. A few Bhutanese troops will completely remove any credibility for the Chinese in front of the international community.

May I point out that you are speaking just like a dharmically honest Indian who needs that honesty. Who is going to check if uniformed men up there are Bhutanese or not. Just claim they are there. Like shitisitanis said they gave "moral and diplomatic" support to holy pigs we get "logistical and defensive support" from the small but formidably tough Bhutanese army personnel

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby shiv » 27 Jul 2017 07:43

pankajs wrote:http://indianexpress.com/article/explained/india-china-standoff-sikkim-doka-la-simply-put-where-things-stand-on-the-dolam-plateau-4763892/
Simply put: Where things stand on the Dolam plateau

Image

Here is a Google Earth image of the same area
Image

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby UlanBatori » 27 Jul 2017 07:59

One thing that might help the Indian/Bhutanese stand is if India can ask the Bhutanese to also send some of their troops to Doklam. After all, this is to (also) protect their territory!

Let me set your mind at ease by assuring you, with 600% credibility:

My 7th cousins Appu and Ramu Dorje, both 100% patriotic Bhutanese soldiers, are already right there at the very front making :P at the PLA. They are there along with 98 other comrades. I am shocked that this has not been reported before! :?:

There!

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby UlanBatori » 27 Jul 2017 08:17

Shiv: The buggers came up the slope and destroyed two Indian Army bunkers on the east slope back in June. Wonder what this had to do with road construction.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Pulikeshi » 27 Jul 2017 08:31

Since whatcama Chinese call it? Stlategely is becoming slowly but clearly clear with a more than 5 week standoff - can we start a counter?
Days since Zhongnanhai dictated terms to the timid short dark rice eating (SDRE) 印度人 (Yìn duó rén):
Days since Meddle Fckdom's dictate: 35 (please to correct days as needed!)

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby shiv » 27 Jul 2017 08:33

UlanBatori wrote:Shiv: The buggers came up the slope and destroyed two Indian Army bunkers on the east slope back in June. Wonder what this had to do with road construction.

Suppose the bunkers were in Bhutan? Or, as is most frequently stated by deadpan army commentators "There are areas where the boundary is not clearly marked and there may be some difference of opinion on the exact line of control"

PS I never said any of the above things

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby tandav » 27 Jul 2017 08:50

Interestingly China strategy is similar to 1950 where they built a road through the disputed Aksai Chin and then went on to annex it in 1962 formally. It appears that road building is Colonialism with Chinese characteristic just like Western colonialism where it was trading posts and churches. Strategy wise since these roads are in disputed territory they should be patroled by Indian vehicles and troops... any Chinese markers found must be replaced with Indian markers.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby DrRatnadip » 27 Jul 2017 09:41

http://m.timesofindia.com/india/china-l ... 778241.cms

China softens stance ahead of Doval’s meeting with Xi

BEIJING: China is giving signs of lowering its belligerence towards India ahead of the visit of Ajit Doval, the National Security Adviser, who will meet Chinese president Xi Jinping and other Chinese leaders on Thursday and Friday.
Doval will meet Xi along with NSAs of other countries in BRICS including Brazil, Russia and South Africa ahead of a security dialogue on Friday. Besides this formal meeting, he will have a meeting on the border standoff with Yang Jeiche, the State Counsellor and advisor of boundary matters to the Chinese government.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby williams » 27 Jul 2017 09:51

I accidently looked at the map that comes with my macbook. It has got a much better resolution and I can see the Doka La ridges very clearly. It shows that there are highly fortified IA bunkers and posts here. I can also see the Chinese road intruding into disputed territory and ending right near the IA post. It only mean IA should have been concerned about Chinese intentions and they were watching this area with extreme care. It also means they were not sanctioned to challenge the Chinese road building for many years. It looks like things changed recently and IA acted only now. All I can say is Chinese have already changed the status quo in the tri-junction while MEA pencil pushers were sleeping in their Nehruvian fantasies of peace with China. Here is the link to the map image : https://ibb.co/bL1zuk

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby yensoy » 27 Jul 2017 10:09

The Indian Express graphic is exactly what I was looking for earlier. Looks like the face-off is not far from the Indian border post, so the Chinese are effectively holding on to some portion of Bhutanese territory.

Now why would the Chinese climb up the ridge and knock off our watch towers/fortifications? Why would they need to build a road swerving to the South right at Doka La? Would it be to reach the mountain mentioned in the 1890 document as the tri-junction? And then during the actual tri-junction talks, mark this as fait accompli. The watch tower probably gave an unimpeded view of the developments and potentially an artillery site targeting the road.

This is the time to put the squeeze on the Chinese road through the Doklam plateau further north in Bhutan. The supply road skirts this area (actually it passes through).

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby DrRatnadip » 27 Jul 2017 10:17

Unless chini fire 1st shot they will not be evicted from occupied part ... :|

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby g.sarkar » 27 Jul 2017 10:35

Someone had asked about the Khan reactions, very little. They have other priorities. Here is a biased one from NYT.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/26/worl ... hutan.html
How India and China Have Come to the Brink Over a Remote Mountain Pass
By STEVEN LEE MYERS, ELLEN BARRY and MAX FISHERJULY 26, 2017
On a remote pass through Himalayan peaks, China and India, two nuclear-armed nations, have come near the brink of conflict over an unpaved road. It is one of the worst border disputes between the regional rivals in more than 30 years.
The road stands on territory at the point where China, India and Bhutan meet. The standoff began last month when Bhutan, a close ally of India, discovered Chinese workers trying to extend the road. India responded by sending troops and equipment to halt the construction. China, the more powerful of the two, angrily denounced the move and demanded that India pull back.
Now soldiers from the two powers are squaring off, separated by only a few hundred feet.
.....
But in recent months, India’s leader, Prime Minister Narendra Modi, has shown that he is willing to flout China’s wishes — and ignore its threats.
In April, a top Indian official accompanied the Dalai Lama to the border of Tibet, shrugging off China’s public insistence that the journey be halted. In May, India boycotted the inauguration of President Xi Jinping’s signature “One Belt, One Road” project, saying the plan ignored “core concerns on sovereignty and territorial integrity.”
The border skirmish arose even as Mr. Modi visited Washington to court President Trump’s favor as India vies with China for influence in Asia.
“I hope the Indian side knows what it’s doing, because the moment you put your hand in the hornet’s nest, you have to be prepared for whatever consequence there is going to be,” said Shiv Kunal Verma, the author of “1962: The War That Wasn’t,” about the bloody border conflict the two countries fought that year.
Chinese officials say the construction of the road was an internal affair because, they say, it took place within China’s own borders. On Tuesday, China’s foreign minister, Wang Yi, reiterated the country’s warning to India to withdraw as a precondition for any broader talks. “The solution to this issue is also very simple,” he said during a visit to Thailand, addressing the Indians directly. “That is, behave yourself and humbly retreat.”
....
Bhutan, Caught in the Middle
Bhutan, which joined the United Nations in 1971, does not have diplomatic relations with China. It has always been closer to India, particularly after fears stemming from China’s annexation of Tibet, another Buddhist kingdom, in the middle of the 20th century.
Since then, India has played a central role in the kingdom’s administration, contributing nearly $1 billion in economic and military aid annually in recent years. China has sought to woo Bhutan with its own offers of aid, investments and land swaps to settle border disputes.
Two weeks after the construction began, Bhutan’s Foreign Ministry issued a statement saying it violated earlier agreements, and called for a return to the status quo.
....
“Bhutan has felt uncomfortable from the start,” said Ajai Shukla, a former army colonel and consulting editor for strategic affairs at Business Standard, a daily newspaper in India. “It does not want to be caught in the middle when China and India are taking potshots at each other. Bhutan does not want to be the bone in a fight between two dogs.”

Gautam

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Deans » 27 Jul 2017 10:37

Are there any places along the LAC that we can occupy and do a `Doklam' on the Chinese ?
What I have in mind is occupying areas where:
- Both sides agree are disputed, or PLA has intruded into our territory and we accepted it.
- A short distance away from our current positions (say upto 2 km)
- Improves our defensive posture along the LAC.

Even if China complains, it will be seen as their attempt to escalate and move attention from their situation at Doklam. The current maps and extent of our `counter-intrusion' can be such that there is no clear indication we moved into Chinese territory. If queried, we simply say that in the light of Doklam, we have taken steps to secure other parts of the LAC which we felt the PLA might intrude to.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby g.sarkar » 27 Jul 2017 11:02

http://www.dailyo.in/politics/ajit-dova ... 18605.html
Doklam standoff: Ajit Doval faces trial by fire in China
This will be the NSA's most delicate assignment by far.
......
It will be a trial by fire for Doval as he holds intensive interactions with his Chinese interlocutors in Beijing. Needless to say, the main highlight of his trip won’t be the multilateral purpose for which he is visiting China: to participate in BRICS (Brazil, Russia, India, China, South Africa) NSAs' meeting on July 27-28.
Doval's negotiations with his Chinese counterpart Yang Jiechi – both are also special representatives on the India-China boundary dispute – on the ongoing Doklam standoff will be his prime mission.
This will be Doval’s most delicate assignment by far – and a diplomatic one. The wily Chinese have muddied the waters for him by unleashing its state-controlled media hounds after him.
China uses its media in a peculiar fashion. Like Pakistan uses its terror infrastructure as an instrument of its foreign policy, China uses its media as an extension of its foreign policy establishment.
China uses its media to float trial balloons, measure the response of foreign powers by publishing highly provocative opinion pieces, insulting key officials of targeted nations, portraying targeted nations in bad light and handing out naked threats to targeted countries.
China has done all that through its media ahead of Doval’s arrival in Beijing. Global Times, the most offensive of brats among Chinese media, has gone to the extent of calling Doval as the “main schemer” of the Doklam crisis.
Here is the relevant quote from the Global Times commentary: “As Doval is believed to be one of the main schemers behind the current border standoff between Chinese and Indian troops, the Indian media is pinning high hopes on the trip to settle the ongoing dispute.”
.....

Gautam
Last edited by g.sarkar on 27 Jul 2017 11:19, edited 1 time in total.


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