Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

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g.sarkar
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby g.sarkar » 31 Jul 2017 07:01

http://www.firstpost.com/india/sikkim-s ... 70087.html
Sikkim border row: Xi Jinping's 'Chinese dream' makes solution unlikely before his re-election in November
Xi Jinping has a Zhōngguó mèng— a "Chinese dream".
Usurping Doka La or extending China’s border further south into Bhutan is but a tiny part of that dream. Before realising this dream in its awesome totality, Xi needs to get re-elected for his second term at the Communist Party Congress that will be held anytime after September this year, probably in November.
So the Doka La faceoff can stay the way it is for at least three or four months. Xi dada, as he is known in China— dada in his native Shaanxi province means father or uncle — will come to grips with Doka La later.
First, about the Chinese dream, and why it gets Xi dada's adrenalin rushing.
It isn’t a new dream that came to the Chinese president just the other night when he slept in his secret bedroom in Zhongnanhai, Beijing’s equivalent of Rashtrapati Bhavan­ — almost everything is a state secret in China. Xi first spoke about this dream on 29 November 2012, two weeks after he was elected general secretary of the Communist Party of China. There has been endless debate on who had first made up that phrase or from whom Xi had filched it. But the horrifying fact is that Xi had, and still has, that dream.
And after he took over as the President of China on 14 March 2013, the Chinese dream became Xi’s singular obsession and his signature slogan. Neither Xi nor any of his Communist factotum has ever deigned to define precisely what this dream is all about, except saying that it means working for a grand "renaissance" of the Chinese people.
But by 2016, the world was convinced that Xi is, in fact, daydreaming of Pax Sinica. (Latin for Chinese peace, the phrase refers to a point in history some 1,000 to 1,500 years ago when unchallenged Chinese hegemony enforced peace in East Asia.) In other words, Xi was struck by the fixation of resuscitating China’s past glory long before Donald Trump came up with the unconvincing shibboleth of Make America Great Again last year.
A Chinese dream, a global nightmare
What worries the world is that the Chinese dream has come to mean, among other things domestically, that Xi will turn China into a muscle-flexing monster across continents to browbeat countries that refuse to toe the Chinese line. He has already tried to do that to a degree.
......

Gautam

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby williams » 31 Jul 2017 07:09

nam wrote:Question can t90 be used on Tibetan plateau?. If not why not.

Assumed it has been airlifted


The only place where a heavy tank battle is even possible is in the

1. Northern Ladakh - DBO - Depsang plains area,
2. Demchok area
3. Northern Sikkim (Gurudongmar lake area)

Rest of the places have narrow valley passes where a small traffic jam will create a nightmare. Your tanks are sitting ducks for air strikes. For tanks to operate in this temperature you need special additives to keep the fuel from freezing and because of the thin air your tank engines are going to be only 75% efficient. Add to that the woes of maintaining ariel logistics to feed these MBT monsters.

That said I would like to see tanks with attack helicopters in Demchok and DBO area. We should go for a armoured thrust to target Ngari and cut the highway. We should expect heavy Chinese resistance, since they can deploy more tanks in the plains. To counter that, we should achieve air superiority in Tibetan airspace and use airpower heavily to make up for smaller numbers.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby g.sarkar » 31 Jul 2017 07:10

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 837933.cms
India, China to build CBM through multilateral fora
Are we going to have a Suzie Wong ki Asha now?
Gautam

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby atamjeetsingh » 31 Jul 2017 07:30

shiv wrote:
atamjeetsingh wrote:
Good show, seems Army is preparing for every mischief Chinis can throw at us. Northern borders Ladkah, DBO and eastern border Sikkim to AP are already fortified. Haven't heard much about HP and Uttrakhand borders, seems they are preparing for every eventuality.

The quoted post mentions Barahoti which is Uttarakhand


Dactar Saab thats what I want to say, Army is preparing for every place on broder even the quite ones in HP & Uttrakhand.
Even before surgical strikes, Army was moved to forward posts all along Punjab border.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Singha » 31 Jul 2017 07:41

iaf clears 12 NHs as emergency landing strips
http://www.firstpost.com/india/indian-a ... 72615.html

if not airstrips they should build large helipads every 25 km on every NH with a fence and a empty warehouse to store supplies. the DC and police can co-ordinate the operation of helicopters and distribution of supplies as needed. this is fairly cheap just concrete 100x50m.

netas flying in during election cycles can also use, as also ministers on tours. far safer than improvised helipads on school playgrounds and such.

flood and naxal prone areas definitely can use.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby ldev » 31 Jul 2017 07:50

sum wrote:Post in DFI forum. Poster is a ex-SF and is very reserved in his posts( since his posts are usually that way) so am assuming he feels it isnt anything to be secretive about:
Today morning me and my friend saw at least 20 Trucks and 5 - 6 Gypsy full of Paratroopers (non SF) at Roorkee cantt Uttarakhand on Haridwar - Rishikesh highway. Most probably it was 50 th Independent Para Brigade on its way to China border (some 350 km from where i saw them) Barahoti and Mana. Otherwise they would've use the Railways.


We took the video and pics of them. They put dry mud or (clay maybe) to hide the para insignia on their vehicles so that nobody could identify the movement of their unit but I immediately recognized the insignia although it was not clearly visible. Apart from paratrooper's VZ 58 on their hands, which was a big giveaway.

Now i won't say that the war is coming but definitely they are going to preempt any Chinese misadventure because I never saw such a big movement of Paratroopers unit like today.


Add this tweet to the above:

Subramanian Swamy‏Verified account
@Swamy39

Many Lutyens intellectuals are underestimating Chinese mood to do a "surgical strike" and overestimating US support. Need a reality check
6:46 PM - 30 Jul 2017

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby ArjunPandit » 31 Jul 2017 08:24

Gagan wrote:Why are Indian interlocuters on chinese media not forceful in telling the chinese that two countries are objecting to chinese intrusion, and china is wrong and must pull back or face the consequences.

Indians respect the hosts too much!
Sheesh! That generation of indians are too polite and disciplined to deal with a tinpot bully

This is the legacy of so many decades (ideas like we could stand up to china, and give them bloody nose were not discussed till now, last year when i said in my circle that we can actually significantly threaten tibet to just test depth of people around me, i was surprised to know the reactions and cowardice that has crept in) + cultural behavior (desis being well behaved outside in general, lack of appreciation of history and geography)
That said no point in shooting good (dead) paki (except for perpetual delight).
When one or 2 generations of indians will internalize this reality, chinese debates will be like Noisehour with pakis on debates and our mithas bhais will be left stuttering (we certainly speak better english than them)

The best exammple i have i s cricket: from blatant wrong outs given in SA/Au/Eng to BCCI dictating terms. From Fab 4, generally not sledging to Kohli doing ABCD on field.
We will see that too in our generation. Unfortunately, this is how it works in a non propaganda democratic state
Last edited by ArjunPandit on 31 Jul 2017 08:38, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Gagan » 31 Jul 2017 08:37

There will be tanks deployed in Chushul, Dumchele and Demchok area.
T-72 Ajeyas with BMP-2s already deployed for several years nearby. The area bristles with special forces too.

3 advanced landing grounds cover this area at Chushul, Fukche, Nyoma.
Then DBO has an ALG

Incidentally Thoise is at a lower altitude than Leh, the IAF should think about stationing fighters - ground attack aircraft there

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Singha » 31 Jul 2017 08:46

^^ rotating Mig29 are in thoise for years now. they maybe do QRT scramble practice over DBO-siachen-kargil..the tripwire role that Nalia does in kutch sector, backed by the beefier bhuj and then much beefier jamnagar.

it has much less space than Leh being along a river flanked by mountains and maybe within ER MLRS range from aksai cheen so will be more of a fwd base than a real base from fighter POV. a small trooplet of 4-6 fighters...

also Nyoma will be converted to airbase from ALG
http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report-in ... ne-1898358

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Kashi » 31 Jul 2017 09:21

sum wrote:Poster is a ex-SF and is very reserved in his posts( since his posts are usually that way) so am assuming he feels it isnt anything to be secretive about


I think you are confusing him with someone else.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby DavidD » 31 Jul 2017 11:03

UlanBatori wrote:BTW, THANK U, LIZARDS! Went shopping, Supreme HQ wanted to buy some things for $90, found they were MADE IN CHINA< ended up buying something much nicer for $24.99 MADE IN VIETNAM, and it turned out it was on sale for $14.50.
Chalk up $90 towards Sanctions.


A lot of Vietnamese exports rely on imported Chinese parts, Vietnam runs a -$30 billion trade deficit with China. The supply chain is global now, boycotting is not an effective strategy. It's near impossible for the common folk to figure out which product has how much value-addition from which country. It's easier to differentiate with raw materials or small trinkets, but the common folk doesn't purchase iron ores and trinkets don't amount to much money.

A mercantile strategy needs to be quite nuanced, something better suited for the government than the average citizen.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby JE Menon » 31 Jul 2017 11:19

^^Actually, what is more likely to happen is that people will simply stop buying anything that says "Made in China", or eventually anything that even "looks like" being made in China... On the other hand if it says "Made in Vietnam", that may boost parts sales to Vietnam. And I am sure that over time, a lot of products that are actually made in China will simply be re-exported as "Made in Vietnam". That still does not change that eventually, if this drags on, anything made in China will be bypassed if possible, as this is not state action but private action. Nothing the government in India can actually do about it. Only thing government can really do is impose tariffs and not give infrastructure contracts.

But all this does not matter for China since India constitutes a small part of it's export destinations, in dollar terms.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby DavidD » 31 Jul 2017 11:39

JE Menon wrote:^^Actually, what is more likely to happen is that people will simply stop buying anything that says "Made in China", or eventually anything that even "looks like" being made in China... On the other hand if it says "Made in Vietnam", that may boost parts sales to Vietnam. And I am sure that over time, a lot of products that are actually made in China will simply be re-exported as "Made in Vietnam". That still does not change that eventually, if this drags on, anything made in China will be bypassed if possible, as this is not state action but private action. Nothing the government in India can actually do about it. Only thing government can really do is impose tariffs and not give infrastructure contracts.

But all this does not matter for China since India constitutes a small part of it's export destinations, in dollar terms.


All of what you said can happen, but I don't see much of a point. I think government action is much more effective. Tariffs are simple but pretty crude and subject to WTO rulings, non-tariff barriers are much more effective IMO. The Chinese have done that quite often to foreign firms, e.g. latest shut down of Lotte supermarkets via endless inspections, so I can't see why India can't do it to Chinese firms if the GOI wants to.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Hari Seldon » 31 Jul 2017 12:19

^ Coz it ain't so much cheeni firms but cheeni products (whether fully assembled or semi-knocked down) that are making it into India.

Also, this hawala route must be squeezed mighty hard. Hopefully with GST gathering steam, it will be possible to ID the leakages outside that are aiding illicit cheeni goods entry into India. Only.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby JE Menon » 31 Jul 2017 12:31

>>but I don't see much of a point. I think government action is much more effective. Tariffs are simple but pretty crude and subject to WTO rulings, non-tariff barriers are much more effective IMO.

Tariffs are indeed crude instruments, but if the government does it, it won't be just thinking of the impact upon China of it's actions alone. Non-tariff barriers are effective, and am not against it in principle. But in terms of overt signalling, tariffs are a much more subtle instrument than non-tariff barriers. Like you said, it is an inter-dependent world.

>>The Chinese have done that quite often to foreign firms, e.g. latest shut down of Lotte supermarkets via endless inspections, so I can't see why India can't do it to Chinese firms if the GOI wants to.

Not really our style, and it won't work within the system due to the fact that there are local business interests who can't be simply overridden by fiat. Not to say that it cannot happen, but most unlikely to target individual firms. No, it will simply be public action at an individual level, in an incremental fashion and will take time to build up and wind down. That's simply how we roll. Government may or may not signal.

HS,

Yes Hawala testimonials are most likely to get squeezed hard, beginning with a gentle fondle. It's a two-birds with one stone scenario. Puns intended wherever they occur.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Kanson » 31 Jul 2017 12:46

Today morning me and my friend saw at least 20 Trucks and 5 - 6 Gypsy full of Paratroopers (non SF) ....


China can disrupt water bodies. Our action is not going to be only defensive.
River Brahmaputra (& area around Ladakh) is a concern. We must be planning to take actions as per the need.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Hari Seldon » 31 Jul 2017 12:51

JE Menon wrote:Yes Hawala testimonials are most likely to get squeezed hard, beginning with a gentle fondle. It's a two-birds with one stone scenario. Puns intended wherever they occur.


:rotfl: :rotfl:

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Iyersan » 31 Jul 2017 13:51

Zee news telling that on 26 July 2017 the Chinese army intruded into Chamoli district Barahoti and stayed there for 1 hour. And no talk until today in Indian Media

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby pankajs » 31 Jul 2017 13:54

Did we serve them chai and samosa?

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby SSridhar » 31 Jul 2017 13:57

Paper dragon: How Global Times fiercely serves China - Aradhana Takhtanil, ToI
Through the India-China standoff on Doklam, Indian experts on China have been following announcements by 'Global Times.' The hyper-nationalistic newspaper is believed to be mouthpiece of Chinese government. So its anti-India offensive, going to the extent of calling for a war over Doklam,- is perceived to be Beijing's message to the world at large.

Watching the Global Times' pronouncements being ceaselessly dissected reminds me of my stint with the paper in 2009, when I was the only Indian on the paper's staff during its launch. When I first met Hu Xijing, the editor-in-chief of Global Times in March 2009, he spoke warmly of India. "China always wants to extend a friendly hand to India. The two are natural partners since ancient times," he said. Zhang Yong, the young, affable managing editor, was equally cordial.

Though Global Times is state-owned, and the editorial readership is connected to the Communist regime (Zhang served on the 2008 Olympics Committee), it initially set out to be a market-driven product.

At a lunch meeting to welcome all the 'foreign experts', Hu spelt out GT's vision-`to facilitate the world to see the real China; its growth story, with both its beauty and ugliness'. {Yes, every issue of Global Times threatening and abusing foreign nations and their leaders truly brings out the Chinese 'ugliness'. It is just not this newspaper. Even the CPC and Chinese government spokespersons have always used nasty and abusive language all the time.} The ''experts' included journalists like Richard Burger, who wrote an outspoken blog, 'The Peking Duck'. At the lunch, Hu promised stories that would push the envelope. True to his words, the first ever coverage of the Tiananmen Square tragedy in China appeared in GT that year, though it was simply referred to as 'June 4'. GT also published articles that raised eyebrows; including one on gay rights and one on how urbanisation was robbing China's rural wealth and increasing inequality .

However, this enthusiasm did not last. Soon, it became apparent there was a filter in place and any story critical of the Communist Party or government would be blocked. By 2011, Burger had left the paper. He described a staff meeting where Hu ordered his team to visit online forums and social media sites and criticise dissident artist Al Weiwei.

In an interview, Hu was asked if government officials had ever given him instructions on editorial matters. He responded, "It's rare". But he conceded, "There are always some orders in China's system...I am defending the State's interests." Some who know the functioning of GT well believe Hu uses the op-eds to amplify Chinese officials' private conversations. So GT says what the officials would really like to, but can't due to diplomatic considerations.

Activists have mocked Hu for being a `high-profile 50cent party member' -referring to netizens' groups supposedly paid 50 Chinese cents for each online comment supporting the Communist regime.This does not bother Hu. As long as GT fulfills its self-appointed role of being the party watchdog, it will be allowed to make occasional {No, not occasional, but permanent} high-decibel, jingoistic war cries, as in the Doklam standoff. The problem for Hu will arise if India and the world stop treating the paper as a reference. {I think that this has already happened. The only reason that GT editorials and articles are read is only to understand how deep the hatred is and how low the Chinese can go.}

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby nam » 31 Jul 2017 14:06

williams wrote:
nam wrote:Question can t90 be used on Tibetan plateau?. If not why not.

Assumed it has been airlifted


The only place where a heavy tank battle is even possible is in the

1. Northern Ladakh - DBO - Depsang plains area,
2. Demchok area
3. Northern Sikkim (Gurudongmar lake area)

Rest of the places have narrow valley passes where a small traffic jam will create a nightmare. Your tanks are sitting ducks for air strikes. For tanks to operate in this temperature you need special additives to keep the fuel from freezing and because of the thin air your tank engines are going to be only 75% efficient. Add to that the woes of maintaining ariel logistics to feed these MBT monsters.

That said I would like to see tanks with attack helicopters in Demchok and DBO area. We should go for a armoured thrust to target Ngari and cut the highway. We should expect heavy Chinese resistance, since they can deploy more tanks in the plains. To counter that, we should achieve air superiority in Tibetan airspace and use airpower heavily to make up for smaller numbers.


Ok thanks for the details. So wherever tanks can be used tanks like T90 can be used. So this debate about using light tanks in pointless. The light tanks are not going to drive through passes for offensive and they will have the same problems as T90s. And jobs which can be done by attack helicopters better.

So Chinese are welcome to bring their light tanks. We will blow them with our 125MM T72/T90s.

If HAL could speed up LCH. It would have been such an asset in the high mountains.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby nam » 31 Jul 2017 14:16

Regarding Chinese exports to India, right now it is 2.5%, but in 5-10 years time, I am sure it is going hurt, when more than 1.5 billion people don't want to buy Chinese made products....

Also we need set our famous paper process on Chinese imports. Customs holding off Chinese imports at port for incomplete forms... Health and safety issues for exploding Chinese phones,No chinese products on government projects because it does not meet technical guidelines ...etc.

Indian business which just import and sell will get the message.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Panther » 31 Jul 2017 14:44

My first post. One singular achievement of this standoff. India has been able to rip off all the cosmetic from the face of our eastern neighbour. Now the true real face and motive of "peacefully rise" lays bare in front of world community and the whole world is taking note of it. 2nd there is a new kid in the town who can be relied upon to counter the peacefull rise of our eastern neighbour. :D

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Deans » 31 Jul 2017 14:55

Iyersan wrote:Zee news telling that on 26 July 2017 the Chinese army intruded into Chamoli district Barahoti and stayed there for 1 hour. And no talk until today in Indian Media


I doubt anyone from our news channels can find Barahoti on a map, let alone go there.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Deans » 31 Jul 2017 15:02

williams wrote:
nam wrote:Question can t90 be used on Tibetan plateau?. If not why not.

Assumed it has been airlifted


The only place where a heavy tank battle is even possible is in the

1. Northern Ladakh - DBO - Depsang plains area,
2. Demchok area
3. Northern Sikkim (Gurudongmar lake area)


One advantage of tanks and APC's in these sectors is that they greatly increase the firepower we have. An armored brigade has has much firepower as an infantry division. Where the terrain allows for crossing the LAC, the presence of our tanks multiplies the PLA's problems, as they have to guard against an advance from our side, rather than just plan to wear down the defence in a grinding battle of attrition.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Panther » 31 Jul 2017 15:05

One more observation to share. This esclation is going to die down with time. As the esclation or present stand off will be counterproductive for China from military and economic point of view. The Chinese have the entire Jihadi regular and non regular army avilable at their disposal in western sector. These regular and non regular army has better penetration in India compared to Chinese and it's here we have to be more cautious. With the kind of political turmoil on western side of Indian neighborhood. The Jihadi army with its regular and non regular recruits / funded by Chinese weapon and finance with try to achieve the objectives of our eastern neighbour in terms of hampering our economic objective /trying to hurt Indian interest and challenge govt ability to protect India/ Indian interest. From Chinese side the phycological warfare and propogada will continue unabated.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Deans » 31 Jul 2017 15:54

The longer China continues the Psy-ops & propaganda, the more counter productive it will be. Grobar times has already declared war on us several times (and on the UK) and all our leaders have been called liars. Continuing this brings diminishing attention from the Chinese (and us), but will harden attitudes in India and might bring closer to reality trade barriers, or a reverse land grab along the LAC.
Last edited by Deans on 31 Jul 2017 16:44, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby rsingh » 31 Jul 2017 16:04

JE Menon wrote:^^Actually, what is more likely to happen is that people will simply stop buying anything that says "Made in China", or eventually anything that even "looks like" being made in China... On the other hand if it says "Made in Vietnam", that may boost parts sales to Vietnam. And I am sure that over time, a lot of products that are actually made in China will simply be re-exported as "Made in Vietnam". That still does not change that eventually, if this drags on, anything made in China will be bypassed if possible, as this is not state action but private action. Nothing the government in India can actually do about it. Only thing government can really do is impose tariffs and not give infrastructure contracts.

But all this does not matter for China since India constitutes a small part of it's export destinations, in dollar terms.


India has to put "Made in Biggest Democracy in The world" tag, Instead of just "Made in India". We have to highlight differences between Indian and China, like Religious freedom,travel freedom, Political freedom.
I for one, do not believe that their phycological warfare and propoganda is working this time. Not a single country has taken Chinese side. Not a single oped (except Chinese toilet papers) has written anything favourable about Chinese. Indian Press in Cool (except some usual suspects who are discarded lot anyway). GGOI cool. PM cool. IA getting getting ready and playing mind game with PLA.

And again, a country whose defence forces to serve part and not country...........wants to be respected as stlongest army in World :rotfl: .
Last edited by rsingh on 31 Jul 2017 16:25, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Singha » 31 Jul 2017 16:05

Gobar times is a good new name.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby sommuk » 31 Jul 2017 17:05


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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Iyersan » 31 Jul 2017 17:19

Gobar times exclusive
Contrary to India’s nationalistic fomenting, Chinese public largely calm over border tension
http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1058878.shtml

Indian elites stand to gain from advocating ‘China threat’ theory
http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1058879.shtml


Western media favors Delhi due to bias

http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1058881.shtml

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby UlanBatori » 31 Jul 2017 17:19

Here is my NUANCED policy:
If it says MADE IN CHINA, I don't buy it. If it says MADE IN PAKISTAN, I don't buy it. Both are terrorist slums. Headed for implosion.

Anywhere else, I am OK with it.
A mercantile strategy needs to be quite nuanced, something better suited for the government than the average citizen.

Spoken like the Politburo. I do what I decide, thanks! There is this strange concept that in some countries the Government is comprised of servants hired by the Average Citizen. Not the other way round.

Bottom line: I have already done my share as Average Citizen. If everyone puts back $90 worth of Made In China items, the effect will be felt. Others can follow suit or sit with their thumbs up their (never mind) that is "up" to them. Freedom of choice. Unknown in Communist China.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Iyersan » 31 Jul 2017 17:35

I believe the battle is still on . The psyops has started in full swing by the indian side now. Starting with the leak of the Barahoti incursion after Doval visit in China. Goes to show that the outcome didn't go as well. we have a skirmish/ War on our hands in the near future. Confirm Mr.Subramanium Swamy's tweet

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby shiv » 31 Jul 2017 17:41


I have been doing my best to see wtf is going on in Barahoti.

There is a Niti pass locatable on Google earth and from this pass there is a very definite Chinese road/curvy dirt track leading to a military camp about 40 km away. From here the Chinese logistic lines don't get any better and the distance to the highway via bad roads in 200 km or so.

I can see no other road. Nothing, The region is full of mountains, valleys and even glaciers - but what is called as the Barahoti plain/plateau appears to be already in Chinese hands. Barahoti appears, like Bum La in the Tawang sector - the southern edge of the Tibet plateau with the Chinese occupied side being at about the same elevation and many flat areas for roads. On the Indian side (technically south west) the elevation plunges down into river valleys. There appear to be far many more Indian army positions around there than PLA on the other side. The fact that there are villagers with cattle acting as lookout suggests that the logistics lines on the Indian side are much shorter. There are at least 3 Indian helipads marked on Google Earth

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby shiv » 31 Jul 2017 17:52

Iyersan wrote:I believe the battle is still on . The psyops has started in full swing by the indian side now. Starting with the leak of the Barahoti incursion after Doval visit in China. Goes to show that the outcome didn't go as well. we have a skirmish/ War on our hands in the near future. Confirm Mr.Subramanium Swamy's tweet

Psychologically BRF (as a collective) is displaying mood swings.

First it was "heck there will be war. We are screwed"
Later it was India wil back down and pull out. There will be no war.
Then it was "OK. Nothing has happened,the Chinese have been checkmated. they have lost face
Now again the graph of anxiety is rising "Not settled yet. SS says there will be war, October is the time for war"

The idea that Doval's visit to China would lead to some kind of resolution or climb down is itself a sign of anxiety/hope. It was never intended to be that way and nothing happened"

Actually nothing much has happened. There has been no change or backing down in Dokala/Doklam. The Indian armed forces are preparing for a showdown as they should. The PLA has not yet been reported to be moving forces to the border as they should if they were preparing for conflict. If that happens expect some shooting - but read Deejay's post as well. Shooting is not going to come off well for the Chinese. They will have to put in far greater effort than a few border guards and I repeat , the Indian armed forces are ready to redeem their honour. They have not been sleeping unlike what BRFites tend to believe. They are up there, all over. China will feel pain.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Lekhraj » 31 Jul 2017 18:00

Here is the google location of Barahoti:

https://www.google.co.in/maps/place/Bar ... d79.966667

A brief history of Chinese incursions in Barahoti:
http://www.indiandefencereview.com/the- ... blunder-2/

Here again, lack of infrastructure is the problem accessing the area. Chinese have been coming there and claiming the land on regular basis. Looks like another Dokalam in the making.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Iyersan » 31 Jul 2017 18:02

shiv wrote:
Iyersan wrote:I believe the battle is still on . The psyops has started in full swing by the indian side now. Starting with the leak of the Barahoti incursion after Doval visit in China. Goes to show that the outcome didn't go as well. we have a skirmish/ War on our hands in the near future. Confirm Mr.Subramanium Swamy's tweet

Psychologically BRF (as a collective) is displaying mood swings.

First it was "heck there will be war. We are screwed"
Later it was India wil back down and pull out. There will be no war.
Then it was "OK. Nothing has happened,the Chinese have been checkmated. they have lost face
Now again the graph of anxiety is rising "Not settled yet. SS says there will be war, October is the time for war"

The idea that Doval's visit to China would lead to some kind of resolution or climb down is itself a sign of anxiety/hope. It was never intended to be that way and nothing happened"

Actually nothing much has happened. There has been no change or backing down in Dokala/Doklam. The Indian armed forces are preparing for a showdown as they should. The PLA has not yet been reported to be moving forces to the border as they should if they were preparing for conflict. If that happens expect some shooting - but read Deejay's post as well. Shooting is not going to come off well for the Chinese. They will have to put in far greater effort than a few border guards and I repeat , the Indian armed forces are ready to redeem their honour. They have not been sleeping unlike what BRFites tend to believe. They are up there, all over. China will feel pain.


Agreed to all that you say Sir. We have all the time being saying that the Chinese are doing a Psyops on India. I believe now India has started the psyops today by leaking the barahoti incident. It is a significant event , I feel. There are matters not coming to the public fore. If all Doklam standoff issues were to be resolved diplomatically, this leak would not have happened.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby anupmisra » 31 Jul 2017 18:08

A bit of piskology here. Chinese PLA building all weather roads from their army base camps that lead to the India-china border is a good thing for the Indian army. Now there's a road, built by someone else.

Right?

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Iyersan » 31 Jul 2017 18:11

anupmisra wrote:A bit of piskology here. Chinese PLA building all weather roads from their army base camps that lead to the India-china border is a good thing for the Indian army. Now there's a road, built by someone else.

Right?

But then again, will we put those roads to good use

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby panduranghari » 31 Jul 2017 18:17

ldev wrote:The honeymoon between Trump and Xi Jinping which started at the dinner in Mar a Lago in April is certainly over.....


US needs war desperately. Tried it in Syria. No luck.

NoKo's bluster has given them another excuse. This time around Russia is not going to stop US. And Chinese do not have the gumption.

NoKo is a huge problem for China and I think they know it.


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