Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby vijaykarthik » 31 Jul 2017 18:18

Looks like we get the answer for the gypsy and SF movement. Chinese troops intruded into Barohati chamomile sector sometime on the 25th of July .

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby rsingh » 31 Jul 2017 18:25

panduranghari wrote:
ldev wrote:The honeymoon between Trump and Xi Jinping which started at the dinner in Mar a Lago in April is certainly over.....


US needs war desperately. Tried it in Syria. No luck.

NoKo's bluster has given them another excuse. This time around Russia is not going to stop US. And Chinese do not have the gumption.

NoKo is a huge problem for China and I think they know it.

NoKo is China. do not do mistake here. How come so intelligent Chinese are doing nothing when their baby is playing with patakhas. Its an proxy. JMT

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby shiv » 31 Jul 2017 18:32

Iyersan wrote: I believe now India has started the psyops today by leaking the barahoti incident.

I don't know. I have often observed that the media become active on a particular subject when that is in the news. they get reporters and Googlers to search for any news related to a topic that is hot. For example if there is a major air accident - for a few weeks we see reports of other accidents "Two seater crashes in Alaska" etc because the news bureaus are scouring for other related news. which is normally ignored. If we go back to all the army statements made by spokespersons they speak of many minor incidents of transgressions by the Chinese. Interestingly they never say "Our troops too took a walk on the Cheeni side" giving the impression that "We are good. they are bad". Even on the Pak border India never ever starts a firefight. It is always "giving befitting replies". We rightly never admit anything that puts the blame on us. Always blame the other guy. So the Barahoti transgression may have been one of many "encounters" that normally go unreported. I tend to wait and see if there is more info. Right now it is "non-info" with few or no details. This may get echoed by other media with some more "masala" added. No point making far reaching conclusions from one media report knowing that the media are only looking for eyeballs to generate interest, not inform with honesty

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby rsingh » 31 Jul 2017 18:40

vijaykarthik wrote:Looks like we get the answer for the gypsy and SF movement. Chinese troops intruded into Barohati chamomile sector sometime on the 25th of July .


Probing foe weakness in defence. it was expected.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby sommuk » 31 Jul 2017 18:43

shiv wrote:

I have been doing my best to see wtf is going on in Barahoti.

There is a Niti pass locatable on Google earth and from this pass there is a very definite Chinese road/curvy dirt track leading to a military camp about 40 km away. From here the Chinese logistic lines don't get any better and the distance to the highway via bad roads in 200 km or so.

I can see no other road. Nothing, The region is full of mountains, valleys and even glaciers - but what is called as the Barahoti plain/plateau appears to be already in Chinese hands. Barahoti appears, like Bum La in the Tawang sector - the southern edge of the Tibet plateau with the Chinese occupied side being at about the same elevation and many flat areas for roads. On the Indian side (technically south west) the elevation plunges down into river valleys. There appear to be far many more Indian army positions around there than PLA on the other side. The fact that there are villagers with cattle acting as lookout suggests that the logistics lines on the Indian side are much shorter. There are at least 3 Indian helipads marked on Google Earth


There is a dual use civil-military airport (Ngari Gunsa Airport) not so far away from Bara Hoti / Niti pass and also the G219 highway. Seems to be another tri-junction area Nepal-China/Tibet-India !

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby shiv » 31 Jul 2017 18:48

I think India can use Chinese roads where it is convenient. One thing that we do not adequately acknowledge about Chinese toads in Tibet is that it is vastly easier to make good long straight roads with no bridges or tunnels on the plain. The east-west Chinese highways stick to plains where possible (Western Tibet) but in the South (near Arunachal) those east west roads run along river beds where the river has flattened out an area on either side. Chinese airfields too are placed in these flat areas. From these main roads the roads running south to India also have to run along river valleys. the geography is such that all these river valleys climb up into mountains in most places so the Chinese cannot really build roads anywhere on the border

As my video (lined again below) shows, the easternmost road leasing to the Walong region (S 201) runs through the Lohit river valley vias some really rough terrain.

Next and even more rough is the road (unnamed?) that runs along the Tsangpo that becomes the Siang river in India. There is practically no good road even on the Chinese side and there is no 365 day connectivity.

The best bet for China is Tawang. The S202 that is 170 km long from Highway to Bum La where the Chinese hold the high ground

Next is the S204 to Chumbi Valley/Amo Chu. Here we hold the high ground and that is why the Chinese tried to finger Bhutan

Video of above: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wUkKcSBtss

Across Nepal to the west we get Barahoti/Uttarakhand. No good roads in this area for the Chinese as far as I can tell

Then there is a flat tank country running up the Indus river from Ngari airfield to Demchok. Indian takns can come rolling into Tibet here

Then we have a Chinese at the Pangong and Spangur lakes in Ladakh. Their logistic lines are long

Right up north near DBO is flat Tank country and the Chinese have no really good roads there. India has a track from DBO to the Karakoram pass

New video coming up about possible points of conflict..

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby shiv » 31 Jul 2017 18:49

sommuk wrote:There is a dual use civil-military airport (Ngari Gunsa Airport) not so far away from Bara Hoti / Niti pass and also the G219 highway. Seems to be another tri-junction area Nepal-China/Tibet-India !

Not a busy airport and at a very high altitude. Probably helos come from there to Barahoti. That airfield sits on the Indus river bed and Indian tanks could thunder down on that river bed from Demchok.. :D

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby sommuk » 31 Jul 2017 18:53

Ngari Gunsa seems to be all weather and modern airport with 4,500-meter runway !

Image

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby shiv » 31 Jul 2017 19:31

sommuk wrote:Ngari Gunsa seems to be all weather and modern airport with 4,500-meter runway !


Yes. The 4500 meter runway is because it is situated at 4.2 km up in the air. That means that heavily loaded planes can probably land, but they cannot take off with full loads. There will likely be take off weight restrictions in the afternoons and evenings and the best take off times will be mornings when the air is coolest and most dense - just like ALL high altitude airfields. Ngari temperatures surprisingly are similar to Bangalore temperatures despite beng so far up North and at high altitude (Hot and high) with all the attendant weight restrictions for aircraft

Check the black rubber markings of plane landings. Not many of them compared with busy airports. Just a little black stain. No pens or fixed defences.

The airfield is less than 200 km from the Indian border and puts it within range of every Indian aircraft including MiG 21 Bison, Tejas and Brahmos mijjiles

The nearest logistics town of Ngari is about 40 km away. Oil/fuel must come from Ngari or even Rutog that is near Pangong lake. Ngari to Lhasa is 1000 km. Lhasa gets its fuel from Golumd in the north - 1000 km away.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Singha » 31 Jul 2017 20:09

IBN
New Delhi: There has been a wave of incursions since July 24 by the Chinese army into Indian territory in the Barahoti area of Chamoli, Uttarakhand, sources have told CNN-News18.

Sources said 12 to 15 soldiers crossed over into the Indian side om July 24, then on the next day and again on July 26, which was the day NSA Ajit Doval arrived in China for the BRICS meet of national security advisors.

People's Liberation Army (PLA) troops came 800 metres into the Chamoli area of Uttarakhand, according to available information, and had a verbal showdown with the Indo Tibetan Border Police (ITBP). They left after two hours.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Iyersan » 31 Jul 2017 20:35

Unconditional withdrawal only way for India to save face
http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1058930.shtml
Gobartimes exclusive

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Iyersan » 31 Jul 2017 20:36

Unconditional withdrawal only way for India to save face
http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1058930.shtml
Gobartimes exclusive

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby yensoy » 31 Jul 2017 20:42

I will puke when I hear "indisputable Chinese territory" once again. Hey we are disputing it, so it's not indisputable, got it geniuses?

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Venkarl » 31 Jul 2017 20:52

Any chinese readers here? what is this written in chinese at dabaxiang?

location is north of Barahoti.

China is doing incursions religiously wherever it deemed necessary (Deception/ Provoking /Sadism etc)
Maybe China wanted it to be reported in Indian media during a week before Doval's visit to BRICS summit and one report during the visit of Doval.
This wasn't reported in Indian media when Chinese wanted it but was reported when Doval is back by Indian media as BRF deems that GoI leaked it.

End goal is China got what it wanted maybe....but why does India have to leak and report? Did India gain anything out of leaking it to public?

To justify the troop movement towards uttarkhand?

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby shiv » 31 Jul 2017 20:56

^^That is the Chinese base 40 km from the Barahoti plain, I have mentioned it in my video..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_BK5BhemOo

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Iyersan » 31 Jul 2017 20:59

Venkarl wrote:Any chinese readers here? what is this written in chinese at dabaxiang?

location is north of Barahoti.

China is doing incursions religiously wherever it deemed necessary (Deception/ Provoking /Sadism etc)
Maybe China wanted it to be reported in Indian media during a week before Doval's visit to BRICS summit and one report during the visit of Doval.
This wasn't reported in Indian media when Chinese wanted it but was reported when Doval is back by Indian media as BRF deems that GoI leaked it.

End goal is China got what it wanted maybe....but why does India have to leak and report? Did India gain anything out of leaking it to public?

To justify the troop movement towards uttarkhand?


Well we have to see. I am firm that it has been leaked by the GOI. Look at the flurry of articles in Indian media today provoking the Chinese media... TOI calling Gobartimes a paper tiger. Hitting out at XI...etc it's calibrated to provoke response. Its psyops from India in full swing. Something has gone seriously wrong post Doval visit. barahoti is a deliberate leak by GOI to Indian media. Grind your axes, the battle has begun

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Venkarl » 31 Jul 2017 20:59

shiv wrote:...snip
New video coming up about possible points of conflict..


Eagerly waiting for it saar

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby atamjeetsingh » 31 Jul 2017 21:02

Venkarl wrote:Any chinese readers here? what is this written in chinese at dabaxiang?

location is north of Barahoti.

China is doing incursions religiously wherever it deemed necessary (Deception/ Provoking /Sadism etc)
Maybe China wanted it to be reported in Indian media during a week before Doval's visit to BRICS summit and one report during the visit of Doval.
This wasn't reported in Indian media when Chinese wanted it but was reported when Doval is back by Indian media as BRF deems that GoI leaked it.

End goal is China got what it wanted maybe....but why does India have to leak and report? Did India gain anything out of leaking it to public?

To justify the troop movement towards uttarkhand?


I asked my chinese college to translate this and he said
Love your country
Love your citizen
Keep the border firm

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Prem » 31 Jul 2017 21:11

Deans wrote:The longer China continues the Psy-ops & propaganda, the more counter productive it will be. Grobar times has already declared war on us several times (and on the UK) and all our leaders have been called liars. Continuing this brings diminishing attention from the Chinese (and us), but will harden attitudes in India and might bring closer to reality trade barriers, or a reverse land grab along the LAC.


Chinese are hyphening India China equation and good for them and us . They have tried best in past to not even remotely accept this link. Now they promote it.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby VinodTK » 31 Jul 2017 21:21

India's Uncompromising Stand Against China in the Himalayas Is Backed Up With Hard Power
India’s National Security Adviser Ajit Doval is back from Beijing after attending the BRICS national security advisers’ conclave and meeting his Chinese counterpart, Yang Jiechi, but there is no sign yet of the standoff between Indian and Chinese troops at the Dolam (Doklam) plateau ending, almost two months after it began. Both sides have chosen not to comment on outcomes, if any, from the talks that Doval held in Beijing, indicating perhaps that a mutually satisfactory solution still eludes them. Or maybe, Beijing and New Delhi want to consult Bhutan, the third party in this unusual spat, before proceeding further.

Whatever the reason for the silence, the world is surprised at the turn of events since late-May when the border spat began at a point where the boundaries of India-China and Bhutan meet. For one, the vehemence displayed by Chinese commentators was out of the ordinary and so was the aggressive tone of official statements made by government spokespersons in Beijing, accusing India of trespassing into Chinese territory. More unusually however, the calm assurance and panache with which New Delhi has handled the crisis so far points to a far more confident India, a point that would be noticed and studied across important world capitals.

What then is the secret behind New Delhi’s polite yet firm stand?

Several factors ranging from India’s better military posture along the contested border to improved economic heft can be cited for the new approach. However, the biggest reason for India to stand up to China ironically is the blatant attempt by President Xi Jinping to force a China-centric order in Asia, a proposition that no government in New Delhi can agree to under any circumstances. Under Narendra Modi, politically the strongest Prime Minister in India for three decades, accepting China’s hegemony was out of the question, given his muscular national security policies. Very early in his tenure Modi had decided to depart from convention on dealing with China. He broke a long standing taboo of not inviting representatives of the Tibetan government-in-exile and that of Taiwan to official functions, lest Beijing feel offended. The Prime Minister of the Tibetan Government-in-exile and Taiwan’s trade representative were among the select invitees to Modi’s oath taking ceremony in the summer of 2014, setting the tone for a more robust policy towards China.

A border standoff in Ladakh in September 2014—coinciding with President Xi Jinping’s maiden visit to India—witnessed a rare display of India’s new approach of not succumbing to Chinese bullying. After 1,000 Chinese troops intruded into Chumar, a remote border outpost in South-east Ladakh, New Delhi rapidly built up a 9,000-strong force in two days, forcing the PLA to back off. Another similar face-off at Yangtse in Arunachal Pradesh in 2015 with the same result further demonstrated India’s resolve.

That resolve is being backed up with an improved military posture. Building on the modest beginning made under the previous government to improve infrastructure all along the northern frontier, the current government is quietly building capabilities to counter China militarily. Consider this:

India’s indigenously developed missiles—Agni, Akash, and Brahmos—are either ready for induction or already inducted into the armed forces, providing potent weapons for use against China.

The development of a family of K-Series of submarine-launched ballistic missiles (SLBM)—although mostly shrouded in secrecy—is in a fairly advanced stage, keeping India on track to complete its nuclear triad.

After initial reservation against the proposed Mountain Strike Corps (sanctioned by the previous government), the Modi government has revived its support for the project. Two Mountain Divisions meant for the Strike Corps are about to complete their raising in Northern and Eastern Commands. More air assets are planned for Strike Corps. The eventual aim is to build flexibility in its deployment and allow swift switching of forces from one theatre to another.
The formation of a Special Forces Division and a cyber and space agency, as prelude to formation of separate tri-services Special Forces, Cyber and Space Commands, has commenced in recent months.

Moreover, Ladakh, the scene of two prominent standoffs in 2013 and 2014, now has an additional infantry brigade stationed permanently in the area while more elements of Northern Command’s reserve division—39—now exercise regularly in the high altitude desert. From the initial induction of a regiment of T-72 tanks done in 2013, India now plans to augment its armor strength to a full-fledged tank brigade in Ladakh.

In the East, the 56 and 71 Mountain Divisions, raised from 2009 onwards, are now firmly placed and deployed on the ground, making more troops available to defense planners.

The Air Force has also staged forward its assets both in the North and the East by deploying the Sukhoi-30 planes at bases close to the Chinese border. Completion of the project to revamp eight Advanced Landing Grounds (ALGs) in Arunachal Pradesh will mean improved connectivity and increased capacity to insert troops in the high altitude areas. The reported deployment of Brahmos Missile regiments along the northern frontiers in the past couple of years means India now has additional offensive capability.

Strategically important roads high in the Himalayas, planned almost a decade ago, are now getting a more focussed attention with more tunnels at high altitude passes being built to allow all-weather traffic.

The Indian Navy, the smallest of the three armed forces, is in the midst of an unprecedented expansion, although the strength of its conventional submarine fleet remains a matter of concern.


There are of course many weaknesses in India’s higher defense management, its procurement systems, and pace of military modernization. Military leaders have spoken about a high degree of obsolescence across the three forces as a result of years of neglect and apathy in military modernization. The Modi government will have to redouble its efforts to overcome the shortages and restructure the management system of the military expeditiously to meet mounting challenges from China and Pakistan.

Overall, however, India’s military strength is right now adequate to hold off any Chinese adventurism across the Himalayas, but not strong enough for an offensive posture. Military analysts however argue that a stronger China will think twice before initiating any conflict with India since Indian soldiers are better trained and battle hardened compared to the PLA troops. That said, neither side will gain anything substantial in a possible armed conflict. That perhaps is the only saving grace in the troubled relationship between India and China at the moment.


Good writ-up by Nitin Gokhale in the Diplomat

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby rsingh » 31 Jul 2017 21:28

Unconditional withdrawal only way for India to save face
http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1058930.shtml
Gobartimes exclusive

Why re we giving free publicity to gobar times?
Last edited by rsingh on 31 Jul 2017 21:56, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby shiv » 31 Jul 2017 21:35

rsingh wrote:^^^^^
Why re we giving free publicity to gobar times?

+1

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby ramana » 31 Jul 2017 22:41

Iyersan wrote:Unconditional withdrawal only way for India to save face
http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1058930.shtml
Gobartimes exclusive



Iyersan, I don't want any Chinese propaganda posted here without analysis to rebut it.
Too many people visit and don't want to spread Chinese FUD.

Thanks,
ramana

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Panther » 31 Jul 2017 22:55

One of my friends working in PSU consultancy informed cancellation of 900km of gas pipeline awarded to Chinese cos. The contract was awarded to Indian cos. Buying steel strips from china / profiling and welding in India. So it's not that govt is not doing anything. Selective messages are being send. Though it has not been publicized.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Mort Walker » 31 Jul 2017 23:34

At the minimum, the $60 billion trade deficit with China needs to be cut in half by next year. That should be enough to get Chinese attention.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby nam » 01 Aug 2017 00:10

sommuk wrote:Ngari Gunsa seems to be all weather and modern airport with 4,500-meter runway !



Does the town nearby have enough people to take flights out/ come to this place? It is sort of in the middle of no where.

This must be similar to the carrier bought from Ukraine for "sea hotel". A facade of civilian airport to prevent any counter build from India.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby pankajs » 01 Aug 2017 00:25

http://www.firstpost.com/india/ghosts-o ... 74349.html
Ghosts of 1962 can be laid to rest at Doka La, says Shiv Kunal Verma, author of '1962, The War That Wasn't'

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby g.sarkar » 01 Aug 2017 00:37

Mort Walker wrote:At the minimum, the $60 billion trade deficit with China needs to be cut in half by next year. That should be enough to get Chinese attention.

Yes. But if India has to resource the items from China to third countries at higher prices, we will be the loser. We buy from China as they are cheap.The only way India can win is by making them in India. Specific areas must be targeted to substitute imports from China, and then red tape nets must be erected to stop Chinese imports. Our Babus can erect red tapes in seconds, and yet comply with the World Trade. This has to be done, as imports from China will rise exponentially as India progresses.
I do remember that after 1962, there was a reluctance of buying Chines products. There were only few Chinese products those days, but Pilot ink pens were smuggled in via Nepal. A lot of people would not use them as a produce from the enemy. Such sentiments should be encouraged.
Gautam

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby DavidD » 01 Aug 2017 01:56

Panther wrote:One more observation to share. This esclation is going to die down with time. As the esclation or present stand off will be counterproductive for China from military and economic point of view. The Chinese have the entire Jihadi regular and non regular army avilable at their disposal in western sector. These regular and non regular army has better penetration in India compared to Chinese and it's here we have to be more cautious. With the kind of political turmoil on western side of Indian neighborhood. The Jihadi army with its regular and non regular recruits / funded by Chinese weapon and finance with try to achieve the objectives of our eastern neighbour in terms of hampering our economic objective /trying to hurt Indian interest and challenge govt ability to protect India/ Indian interest. From Chinese side the phycological warfare and propogada will continue unabated.


Astute observation. So many here are analyzing the situation at Doklam, the airports, roads, terrain, deployments and what not. It's all useless. The Indian advantage in the region is amply clear, which means China will not fight there. Why would the Chinese fight a battle they obviously can't win? China's advantage in Tibet is its strategic depth, they'll retreat back toward Lhasa and attack only after the IA has scaled the Himalayas and trekked another couple hundred kms through Tibet. In the meantime they'll probably attack somewhere else along the LOC where China has local advantage. The IA is not so stupid to try to cold start a full-on invasion of Tibet that they obviously can't win either, so they'll probably withdraw soon after achieving some fairly small gains. A Chinese response along the LOC would thus be a reactive strategy, a tit-for-tat play so victory can be declared somewhere else, and IMO would not be the main Chinese action.

China's main objection in this ordeal is that both China and India have supported their respective smaller partners in Pakistan and Bhutan without direction military intervention, and thus India is setting a dangerous precedence. Therefore, the main Chinese response as I see it would be to get directly involved militarily in Pakistan if the standoff at Doklam turns hot.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Rishirishi » 01 Aug 2017 02:20

I think neither side wants a conflict. It's simply not worth it. China is just testing Indian response. That is it.

As this has become an media issue, they will have to figure a way out.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby UlanBatori » 01 Aug 2017 02:25

In all this, I hope IA is doing its share of border-disputing all over the place.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby sanjaykumar » 01 Aug 2017 02:27

China may not want a border conflict but the Indian Army sure does. India has been seeking a rematch for some time now, perhaps 3 decades.

Will China oblige? Do you feel lucky, punk?

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby kit » 01 Aug 2017 02:31

DavidD wrote:
Panther wrote:One more observation to share. This esclation is going to die down with time. As the esclation or present stand off will be counterproductive for China from military and economic point of view. The Chinese have the entire Jihadi regular and non regular army avilable at their disposal in western sector. These regular and non regular army has better penetration in India compared to Chinese and it's here we have to be more cautious. With the kind of political turmoil on western side of Indian neighborhood. The Jihadi army with its regular and non regular recruits / funded by Chinese weapon and finance with try to achieve the objectives of our eastern neighbour in terms of hampering our economic objective /trying to hurt Indian interest and challenge govt ability to protect India/ Indian interest. From Chinese side the phycological warfare and propogada will continue unabated.


Astute observation. So many here are analyzing the situation at Doklam, the airports, roads, terrain, deployments and what not. It's all useless. The Indian advantage in the region is amply clear, which means China will not fight there. Why would the Chinese fight a battle they obviously can't win? China's advantage in Tibet is its strategic depth, they'll retreat back toward Lhasa and attack only after the IA has scaled the Himalayas and trekked another couple hundred kms through Tibet. In the meantime they'll probably attack somewhere else along the LOC where China has local advantage. The IA is not so stupid to try to cold start a full-on invasion of Tibet that they obviously can't win either, so they'll probably withdraw soon after achieving some fairly small gains. A Chinese response along the LOC would thus be a reactive strategy, a tit-for-tat play so victory can be declared somewhere else, and IMO would not be the main Chinese action.

China's main objection in this ordeal is that both China and India have supported their respective smaller partners in Pakistan and Bhutan without direction military intervention, and thus India is setting a dangerous precedence. Therefore, the main Chinese response as I see it would be to get directly involved militarily in Pakistan if the standoff at Doklam turns hot.


they are welcome to meddle in kashmir . It makes things simpler for India as well . If you didnt understand what i meant , a limited "nuke" war will rightly mean a full blown nuke war with China . No use hiding behind paki generals and cocking a "nuclear" snook at India . The Chinese eastern board will be hit along with whichever place in India is targeted.

RKumar
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby RKumar » 01 Aug 2017 02:37

I am surprised .... with chalta hain attitude of most of the forum members.

If USA does attack NK, China will not open another front. Otherwise, I see high probability of large scale fight between China+Pak vs India in short (within 6 months) to medium term (2-3 years). If my tea leave reading is right then it is better we prepare ourselves hard, construct defensive positions at war footing and keep our powder dry to charge at the right moment.

Regarding Chinese joining the Paki's in J&K, they are more then welcome. It will be Stalingrad for them.

The only good point I see as compare to 1962, this time at least political leadership is active and pushing services to do their best at war footing level. All is not well at the border, I hope my sixth sense is wrong.

ramana
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby ramana » 01 Aug 2017 02:41

RKumar, Lets say if US attack NoKo, options open up for India.
And this is known to GOI.

India already has a defensive war strategy vis a vis China.,

It has an offensive defense strategy wrt Pakistan.

UlanBatori
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby UlanBatori » 01 Aug 2017 02:49

Standing back, it is quite pointless to have a "match" to declare "victory" or "loss of face". What we are talking about is a sort of gladiator match involving brave men on both sides, whom we are asking to die for no particular strategic objective. Our thinking is clouded by the desire to see "our side" "win".

What is a real victory? It is lasting peace with honor, leading to open borders and free but equitable trade, pleasant tourism, respect for the environment and care for the residents. These things cannot be achieved by having brave men getting frostbite and altitude sickness or falling down mountain slopes pointing guns at each other - on a long-term basis. So there has to be situation where the "dividing line" is actually two lines far from each other, with a mutually respected region in between, where only mutually agreed joint projects are done.

How do we get to this ShangriLa/Ramarajya from where we are? I have no idea, but I hope this mutual objective can be agreed as the best ultimate outcome. Ways to get there:
1) Eleven/NaMo Panchsheel Declaration Indi-Cheeni bhai-bhai. That was the right idea long ago, BTW, just that the bloody commies had no intention of being honest. Also, IIRC it came **AFTER** the colonization of Tibet, which was unacceptable. Today such a deal would be polluted by suspicion. There is no basis for trusting the Chinese as they have shown themselves to genetically incapable of handling trust.

2) Collapse of Han communist rule in Tibet North Dharmasala. Realistically, this is the ***ONLY*** way to peace in the Himalayas. Northern Dharmasala should be a free country. Clearly we are able to handle reasonable peace and friendly relations with Nepal and Bhutan, I see no reason why we cannot do the same with North Dharmasala. How the remnants of Hannistan deal with N. D. is their problem.

Oh! I feel so virtuous, having made an impassioned, objective, fair plea for Ahimsa and Shanti.

jagga
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby jagga » 01 Aug 2017 02:51

Lot of fun reading the comments!


sanjaykumar
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby sanjaykumar » 01 Aug 2017 02:53

I am forgetting my Indian deference and use of honourifics:

Do you feel lucky, punk garu?

g.sarkar
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby g.sarkar » 01 Aug 2017 02:57

[quote]
http://profit.ndtv.com/news/pharma/arti ... rt-1731638
India Raises Concerns Over Chinese Firm Fosun's Takeover Of Gland, Says Report
The closing of the deal, which would be China's largest ever acquisition in India if approved, has now been extended to Sept. 26
Thomson Reuters | Last Updated: July 31, 2017 22:59 (IST)
India has privately raised objections to Chinese firm Shanghai FosunPharmaceutical Group's proposed $1.3 billion takeover of Indian drugmaker Gland Pharma, a source familiar with the matter said on Monday. The deal has won the approval of the Competition Commission of India (CCI), and India's Foreign Investment Promotion Board (FIPB) in the last few months, but some in the Indian government have expressed concerns about a Chinese group buying Gland, the source said, declining to be named. Relevant authorities in China have approved the takeover of the injectable drugmaker, but it is awaiting a nod from India's Cabinet Committee on Economic Affairs of India (CCEA), ShanghaiFosun said in a statement to Reuters. The closing of the deal, which would be China's largest ever acquisition in India if approved, has now been extended to Sept. 26, the company added. Private-equity backed Gland Pharma and the CCEA, chaired by Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi, did not immediately respond to requests for comment on Monday.
Based in the southern Indian city of Hyderabad, Gland owns four factories from where it supplies a variety of injectables – widely used medicines administered through vials, syringes, bags and pumps, which are harder to make than regular drugs.
.......
[quote]
Is this just a coincidence? or is it a signal to the lizard?
Gautam

DavidD
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby DavidD » 01 Aug 2017 02:58

kit wrote:they are welcome to meddle in kashmir . It makes things simpler for India as well . If you didnt understand what i meant , a limited "nuke" war will rightly mean a full blown nuke war with China . No use hiding behind paki generals and cocking a "nuclear" snook at India . The Chinese eastern board will be hit along with whichever place in India is targeted.


Why would there be a nuke war?


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