Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

All threads that are locked or marked for deletion will be moved to this forum. The topics will be cleared from this archive on the 1st and 16th of each month.
Locked
Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21538
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by Philip »

A veteran scribe sent me a quite from Cromwell "keeping one's powder dry" which Siraj-ud- Daula didn't and his wet powder after a bit of rain was one reason why he lost the Battle of Plassey.
Our logistic build up and chain should be in place all along the Indo-Tibetan botder and IN on high alert in the IOR and Asia- Pacific. If China dares to attack us at multiple places,The IN should be ordered to destroy the PLAN forces and its merchant marine anywhere on the high seas.
Rajeev
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 51
Joined: 20 Jun 2000 11:31
Location: New York

Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by Rajeev »

2 months into Doklam standoff, assessing China’s strength

http://indianexpress.com/article/explai ... m-4796971/

China’s great strength is part steel and part illusion. The dragon may indeed breathe fire — but it has enough teeth and claws missing to not want to fight.
goutham
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 47
Joined: 28 Nov 2006 20:08

Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by goutham »

Excellent articulation by the Indian experts unlike the Chinese colonel rambling

Last edited by goutham on 15 Aug 2017 09:35, edited 1 time in total.
yensoy
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2494
Joined: 29 May 2002 11:31
Location: USA

Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by yensoy »

^^^^ They know they have lost the plot, its there in their facial expressions. "Top priority is honour" what bullshit, coming from a country which has Pakistan and NoKo as its best friends.
Prem Kumar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4218
Joined: 31 Mar 2009 00:10

Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by Prem Kumar »

SSridhar wrote:So, where did all this sanctimonious qutbah on trade disappear when China suddenly pulled the plug on 'rare earths' export to Japan in 2008? Or, violated the UN convention for land-locked countries when it wanted to punish Mongolia for hosting the Dalai Lama? Or , when the Korean chain of Lotte was targetted? Or, the Philippine export of bananas was stopped to punish that country?
This post needs to go on top of this thread as a sticky!! Explains Chinese un-trustworthiness in 3 lines.
DavidD
BRFite
Posts: 1048
Joined: 23 Jun 2010 04:08

Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by DavidD »

Suraj wrote:There's no metric to quantify what 'people take seriously' . Really what is it that people do take seriously anyway ? 'China's Got Talent' ? We are talking about people's opinion in a country where people's opinion means squat . The Global Times is an arm of People's Daily, the official mouthpiece of the CPC. What the Chinese people think has never been relevant .

What does matter is that the mouthpiece of the government is going verbally nuts in a way even TSP doesn't . From an Indian perspective we're surprised and amused - 'these guys are the so called P2 ? Why are they indulging in dramabazi like a 5 year s separated from his candy ? Even Trump doesn't come up with this kind of drivel at 3am' .

That's the biggest takeaway from this for India . It strips away China's veneer of supposed omnipotence and reduces you to a common bully against whom standard tactics against bullying work - if we respond to a situation by covering the bases and just maintaining a stone faced silence , then China basically loses it - your Plan B is, to paraphrase John Cleese - to yell loudly while gesticulating frantically .
It's interesting that you should describe China's plan as such. Tell me, how much does "yell loudly while gesticulating frantically" cost? How much has India "covering the bases" cost over the years? How much has that cost been spent on improving India's MIC? And how much has that cost been spent in defense of an impregnable wall of mountain peaks as opposed to say claiming India's natural position as the premier power of the Indian Ocean?

If you like to take gobar seriously it's your choice, and it seems to be a choice made by enough in India to be reflected in government policy. Do keep in mind though that it's not a harmless choice, for misreading your opponent's intentions rarely is.
Suraj
Forum Moderator
Posts: 15043
Joined: 20 Jan 2002 12:31

Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by Suraj »

David, I think you're being enormously naive to think China doesn't spend money on logistics. If anything, the refrain for at least the last 20 years has been that we spend far too little compared to China in the Tibetan sector. There are posters right on this thread with detailed map analyses of the Chinese side. You seem completely unaware of just how much money China has sunk into VERY long logistical tails leading to these mythically effective '50 man troops causing trouble'. Behind every one of those troops is a very long logistical chain that costs China a yummy yuan (rhymes better than pretty penny, eh ?).

And yes, yelling loudly and gesticulating costs you. The more you keep doing that, the less we fear you, and the more we turn you into a caricature. China has so far seen itself as the big guy sitting and trying to make its way into a subcontinental squabble . It now finds itself mired in the same drama, and to be honest, your histrionics are so shockingly over the top that a significant part of the country switched mindsets from being fearful of 'the big guy who cannot be taken on', to 'what a poseur'. The kind of comic roasting China's gone through in the Indian press in the recent past has *never* happened before.

Not that I'm complaining. It's a pleasure to see China reveal itself as just a louder more theatrical Pakistan, and not actually the great power it makes itself to be. For India, the power dynamic with China has changed. Not the big fearsome rival, but someone who can't keep his nerve if taken on.
Deans
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2509
Joined: 26 Aug 2004 19:13
Location: Moscow

Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by Deans »

Gobar times and SCMP can be useful idiots. By now it seems clear that anything bothering China gets huge coverage in the garb of `Advice & warnings to India'. The shrillness of their articles are directly proportional to the damage our actions are causing them.

I follow trade matters but first heard of the anti dumping duty from GT and not from our papers. Interestingly, the norm has been that if Indian industry wants anti dumping duty on X items, they ask for 2X, knowing that the babu's will negotiate downwards. In this case industry got anti dumping duties imposed on 93 items (all that they asked for). It is unambiguously aimed at China and was done without any fanfare. Our papers reporting is confined to a `cut-paste' of the Chinese foreign ministry press release warning India of 'selious consequences'
Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by Singha »

the vast investments like railway to lhasa and beyond and the under work yunnan to lhasa railway are for (a) strategic purpose (b) extraction of minerals.

i do not believe any landless horde would want to settle in a cold desert like tibet to work in the paradise of its salt and phosphate mines. tibet has over millenia had very low pop and arable land is very scarce, so just "millions of han" cannot become traders there serving a small base population.
tourism again cannot support a influx of millions.

all the swank roads that we shiver about cannot be cheap to maintain over such vast distances. the karakoram highway itself is a great feat of civil engineering but in unstable region and surely imposes a cost to keep open.

I think the sea route is still cheaper to pakistan market than 5000km from eastern china, but these CPEC type stuff are all strategic.
harish_ch
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 41
Joined: 22 Oct 2009 21:06

Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by harish_ch »

Suraj wrote: Not that I'm complaining. It's a pleasure to see China reveal itself as just a louder more theatrical Pakistan, and not actually the great power it makes itself to be. For India, the power dynamic with China has changed. Not the big fearsome rival, but someone who can't keep his nerve if taken on.
^^ +100

Absolutely agree. I believe this was a terrible miscalculation from China and not some Chankian strategy as some may believe it to be. If they do not act militarily they will be shown as impotent, and if they do act the result may not be to their liking. I'm simply loving it :)
g.sarkar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4382
Joined: 09 Jul 2005 12:22
Location: MERCED, California

Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by g.sarkar »

http://www.businessinsider.com/china-an ... ute-2017-8
China and India are reportedly preparing for full-scale war over a Himalayan border disputeChina and India are reportedly preparing for full-scale war over a Himalayan border dispute
Chinese and Indian troops are readying themselves for a possible armed conflict in the event they fail in their efforts to achieve a peaceful resolution to their border dispute on the Doklam plateau in the Himalayas, observers said.
On Friday, India’s defence minister Arun Jaitley told parliament that the country’s armed forces are “prepared to take on any eventuality” of the stand-off, Indian Express reported the same day.
Sources close to the Chinese military, meanwhile, said that the People’s Liberation Army is increasingly aware of the possibility of war, but will aim to limit any conflict to the level of skirmishes, such as those contested by India and Pakistan in Kashmir.
“The PLA will not seek to fight a ground war with Indian troops early on. Instead it will deploy aircraft and strategic missiles to paralyse Indian mountain divisions stationed in the Himalayas on the border with China,” a military insider told the South China Morning Post on condition of anonymity, adding that he believes Indian troops will probably hold out for “no more than a week.”
Another military source said that officers and troops from the Western Theatre Command have already been told to prepare for war with India over the Doklam crisis.
“There is a voice within the army telling it to fight because it was Indian troops that intruded into Chinese territory in Donglang [Doklam],” the second source said. “Such a voice is supported by the public.”
Both sources said that China’s military believes any conflict will be controlled, and not spill over into other disputed areas, of which there are currently three along the 2,000km border between the two Asian giants.
However, Indian defence experts warned that once the first shot is fired, the conflict may escalate into full-scale war. That in turn could result in New Delhi blockading China’s maritime lifeline in the Indian Ocean.
China is heavily reliant on imported fuel and, according to figures published by state media, more than 80 per cent of its oil imports travel via the Indian Ocean or Strait of Malacca. Beijing-based naval expert Li Jie said that India in 2010 established a naval base in the Andaman and Nicobar Islands, close to the Strait of Malacca, where the narrowest sea channel is just 1.7km wide. “Since 2010, India has also upgraded two airstrips on the islands to serve fighters and reconnaissance aircraft,” he said.
“All these moves pave the way for India to be able to blockade Chinese military and commercial ships from entering the Indian Ocean in the event of a naval conflict between the two countries.” In July, India, the United States and Japan completed their 10-day Malabar 2017 naval exercise in the Bay of Bengal, while around the same time the US approved the US$365-million sale of military transport aircraft to India and a US$2-billion deal for surveillance drones. As a result, the Indian navy now has eight Boeing P-8A Poseidon submarine hunters patrolling in the Indian Ocean.
....
Gautam
Karthik S
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5380
Joined: 18 Sep 2009 12:12

Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by Karthik S »

X-posting:
rajkhalsa wrote:"Crazy Chinese lady in Vancouver at Tim Hortons"


Chinese aunty ranting at Indian lady about how she invaded China :P
Last edited by Karthik S on 15 Aug 2017 12:38, edited 1 time in total.
niran
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5535
Joined: 11 Apr 2007 16:01

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by niran »

DavidD wrote: Ha that's pretty clever, I never knew that's what Gobar meant. I hope you guys realize though that Global Times is a tabloid, and what it says is as much "Gobar" to the Chinese as it is to you.
minor addition from a noob sir,
Grober Times is published inside the "Gleat Warr of Cheen" is high command sanctioned. FYI BRF is blocked in cheen, if you think a country which blocks a WhatTheHell is BRF website allows press freedom you live in lala land.
deWalker
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 89
Joined: 27 Apr 2003 11:31
Location: USA

Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by deWalker »

The Ugly Chinese Tourist (used to be The Ugly American)

Chinese Tourists Flash the Nazi Salute in Germany
VKumar
BRFite
Posts: 730
Joined: 15 Sep 1999 11:31
Location: Mumbai,India

Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by VKumar »

Sinkiang, Tibet, Taiwan, all wanting independence. Baluchistan, Sindh, NWFP, NT all wanting independence. And India is providing no support to these movements. Does not become a moral giant like India.

Governments in Exile at the very minimum should be permitted.

Stir the pot!
Chandragupta
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3469
Joined: 07 Dec 2008 15:26
Location: Kingdom of My Fair Lady

Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by Chandragupta »

Why is our defence budget till languishing at 1.5-1.6% of GDP? With the threat of a 2.5 front war being very very real in the near future, at least increase it to 2% if not 2.5-3%! All things said & done, Defence acquisition & indigenousation seems pretty low on this government's priority lists. People fret on not having a full time defence minister, but that is probably a good thing - MoD being handled directly by the PMO and Doval. But for crying out loud, increase the defence budget to 3%, buy indigenous stuff, the money remains in the country and we build scale & capabilities.
brvarsh
BRFite
Posts: 215
Joined: 03 Mar 2011 20:29

Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by brvarsh »

Karthik S wrote:X-posting:
rajkhalsa wrote:"Crazy Chinese lady in Vancouver at Tim Hortons"


Chinese aunty ranting at Indian lady about how she invaded China :P
Its good that not only Chinese government but its people are reacting this way, its not an anguish but depression they need to go in.
shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34982
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by shiv »

Cross post
Praveen Swamy
http://indianexpress.com/article/explai ... m-4796971/

There are more than a few, moreover, who are sceptical of the combat qualities of this new cohort of PLA officers — products of China’s one-child policy, which spawned a generation derisively referred to as “Little Emperors”. PLA newspapers are replete with stories of new recruits using boarding-school tricks like spitting out red ink to avoid training.

I’d hide under my blanket and cry every night,” former cadet Sun Youpeng, who joined the PLA after graduating from university at the age of 22, told Minnie Chan of the South China Morning Post in 2014.

Liu Mingfu, a scholar at China’s National Defence University, estimated in a 2012 report that 70% of the PLA’s troops were only sons — a number rising to 80% among combat troops. In a country with a growing cohort of aged people, with ancient cultural norms against sending only sons to war, the consequences could be significant, Liu noted.
In some cases, the crisis of morale bred low farce: elements of the 67th Army, on their way out of Laoshan, demanded $ 1,500 from their 47th Army replacements for all intelligence on enemy positions and firepower. In another case, an armoured unit which did not receive care packages despatched its tanks to surround an infantry division headquarters and demand its share.
“Let our field armies touch the buttocks of a tiger,”
Yeah sure. kiss my butt
pankajs
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14746
Joined: 13 Aug 2009 20:56

Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by pankajs »

That might be one reason China is in such a hurry to sew up Asia before it is too late and bind its periphery in economic slavery with BRI/OBOR. Till 2008 they had done well to hide their inner bakistaniyat.
SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 25087
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by SSridhar »

The abusive language against India & Indian leaders starting from 1959, the Mao/Chou dialogues with Nixon/Kissinger, the Global Times' rantings and abuses, the abuse of Indian transit passengers in China, the usual condescending writings of Chinese analysts and this video all reinforce the assessment of the Chinese about us.
DrRatnadip
BRFite
Posts: 604
Joined: 31 Dec 2016 00:40

Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by DrRatnadip »

India defies missile-exporting China with cruise missile sale to Vietnam

http://idrw.org/india-defies-missile-ex ... o-vietnam/ .

India’s likely sale to Vietnam of a short-range, supersonic anti-ship missile will open up a new conflict in an already tense situation with China, an analyst said.Vietnam will receive the BrahMos which is considered one of the most effective and lethal anti-ship missiles in the world, with speeds reaching Mach 2.8 to 3.0. About half of China’s worldwide arms exports go to one country — Pakistan, for the primary reason of ‘containing India,’ ” said Hoover Institution Fellow and Geostrategy-Directcorrespondent Maochun Miles Yu in a Facebook post. “Now India is playing the same game by arming one of China’s arch enemies, Vietnam.” Russia, which co-produces the BrahMos with India, is said to have given its nod of approval on the sale. “The Chinese government has major objections about Vietnam getting these missiles for its navy,” said analyst Larkins Dsouza, founder of Defense Aviation.“China sees India selling BrahMos to Vietnam as an act of belligerence and interference in the South China Sea dispute.” But, Dsouza added, “China seems to be overlooking the fact that it sells a great deal of weapons to Pakistan, a country that has been in a gridlock with India for decades. All indications now point to the fact that New Delhi has overcome its reservations and fears about annoying China.”
shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34982
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by shiv »

Suddenly, things are falling into place in my mind. It's just a thought, but it all gels in
1. China is downsizing its army
2. They are producing plenty of missiles and rockets for battles at standoff ranges
3. They are producing innovative little vehicles so soldiers will not have to hurt their pretty li'l feet while on patrol
4. Barracks with enriched oxygen
5. Chinese family obrigations to palents and glandpalents
6. Reluctance to send only son to combat
7. 70-80% young army recruits are only sons
Peregrine
BRF Oldie
Posts: 8441
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by Peregrine »

Trade war looms between India-China after 93 Chinese products attract anti-dumping duties: Chinese media
Urging the Chinese companies to think about the risks of investment in India, the news report warned India to start preparing to face the possible consequences for its 'ill-considered action'.

Amid the Doklam standoff, a trade war appears to be looming between India and China after New Delhi last week imposed anti-dumping duties on 93 Chinese products, according to Chinese newspaper The Global Times. Urging the Chinese companies to think twice about the risks involved before making investments in India, the news report warned India to be prepared to face the consequences for its ‘ill-considered action’.

The report also said that China could easily retaliate by putting restrictions on imports from India, but it doesn’t make much economic sense for the country. It said, “If India really starts a trade war with China, of course China’s economic interests will be hurt, but there will also be consequences for India.”

Quoting statistics from China’s Ministry of Commerce, the article said that in the first half of 2017, India has initiated 12 probes into Chinese products.

The Global Times also cited figures from the Indian embassy in China to show that Indian exports fell by 12.3 per cent year-on-year to $11.75 billion, while India’s imports from China rose by 2 per cent to $59 billion, resulting in a trade deficit of $ 47 billion.

However, according to the Indian Commerce Ministry, the trade deficit with China mounted to over $52 billion in 2016 when the bilateral trade stood at $70 billion.

At least 350 Indian army personnel positioned at the India-China-Bhutan tri-junction in Doklam since June 16, when they stopped Chinese troops from constructing a road near the disputed region. Both Bhutan and China have competing claims over the region.

Another China Daily reported that boycotting Chinese goods would be harmful for India. The article said, “Suffice to say, calling for the boycotting of Chinese products and those related to Chinese investors is not just a fool’s errand but also risks backfiring.”

Warning India, the report also said that any attempt by India to shut down Chinese cellphones companies or other factories will badly affect economy of India and will cost Indian jobs as well.

Cheers Image
Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by Singha »

I can see a list of 80 anti dumping cases against China and not the full 93, but will give you an idea of the product types

http://www.dgtr.gov.in/anti-dumping-cas ... ave=Search

there are 15 ongoing investigations

http://www.dgtr.gov.in/anti-dumping-cas ... ave=Search

a lot of it seems to be medicines and chemicals - vitaminE, vitaminC, antibiotics...
UlanBatori
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14045
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by UlanBatori »

Our papers reporting is confined to a `cut-paste' of the Chinese foreign ministry press release warning India of 'selious consequences'
Incidentally, the term "vely vely vely vely glave consequences" is from Indian Express, quoting the New China News Agency (official "organ" of the CPC), in the run-up to the 1967 Nathu La / Cho La debacles by the PLA. After that there was a long silence. It had amplified from "glave consequences" as the shrillness increased.

So, nothing new here. Unfortunately, the 1967 shrillness led to violent deaths - 10 times more on the Chinese side than Indian side, but terribly wasteful nevertheless. It was all because some plick in Pee-King was peeved that he had stepped on himself trying to bully a neighboring country.
Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by Singha »

Meantime dt has signed off on a 1 yr trade investigation on cheen to look at ip theft and counterfeiting and forced joint ventures.
kancha
BRFite
Posts: 1032
Joined: 20 Apr 2005 19:13

Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by kancha »

Slightly OT, but couldn't find another forum to post it on. Have posted another blog yesterday, titled 'South Sudan - Who Killed The Chinese Peacekeepers?'

Basically chronicling the Chinese quest for oil in the country and the destabilization they have perpetrated towards this end

Blog Link

Twiter Link
shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34982
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by shiv »

kancha wrote:Slightly OT, but couldn't find another forum to post it on. Have posted another blog yesterday, titled 'South Sudan - Who Killed The Chinese Peacekeepers?'

Basically chronicling the Chinese quest for oil in the country and the destabilization they have perpetrated towards this end

Blog Link

Twiter Link
Good info here - I did not know these details. Fits in well with information about "little emperors" of China
ashish raval
BRFite
Posts: 1390
Joined: 10 Aug 2006 00:49
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by ashish raval »

Singha wrote:Meantime dt has signed off on a 1 yr trade investigation on cheen to look at ip theft and counterfeiting and forced joint ventures.
Will be a trillion $ fine I believe..
Corrected: multi trillion..reduced to few trillions lol..
ashish raval
BRFite
Posts: 1390
Joined: 10 Aug 2006 00:49
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by ashish raval »

Singha wrote:I can see a list of 80 anti dumping cases against China and not the full 93, but will give you an idea of the product types

http://www.dgtr.gov.in/anti-dumping-cas ... ave=Search

there are 15 ongoing investigations

http://www.dgtr.gov.in/anti-dumping-cas ... ave=Search

a lot of it seems to be medicines and chemicals - vitaminE, vitaminC, antibiotics...
My Chinese friends (totally harmless non communist and fascinated by Indian diversity educated ones) are so scared from buying any medicines from China that they carry bag full over the counters for everyone in mainland..i am not surprised by Chinese publicly saying that Chinese drugs are not good.
schinnas
BRFite
Posts: 1773
Joined: 11 Jun 2009 09:44

Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by schinnas »

ashish raval wrote:
Singha wrote:Meantime dt has signed off on a 1 yr trade investigation on cheen to look at ip theft and counterfeiting and forced joint ventures.
Will be a trillion $ fine I believe..
Corrected: multi trillion..reduced to few trillions lol..
Enough to wipe off the trade imbalance of past few / several years.
Iyersan
BRFite
Posts: 491
Joined: 19 Sep 2016 16:13

Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by Iyersan »

Indian troops foil two incursion bids by Chinese soldiers in Ladakh
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 076348.cms
NEW DELHI: A major scuffle, which included stone-pelting, took place between Indian and Chinese soldiers along the Line of Actual Control at eastern Ladakh in the western sector on Tuesday even as the tense troop stand-off in Doklam area in the eastern sector remains locked in a stalemate.
Sources said the confrontation between the rival soldiers took place on the north bank of the Pangong Tso (Tso means lake) in eastern Ladakh, two-thirds of which is controlled by China as it extends from Tibet to India, early on Tuesday morning.
"There was a scuffle between the two sides, which included some stone-pelting as well, after Indian soldiers blocked two attempts by People's Liberation Army troops to enter Indian territory at the Finger-4 and Finger-5 areas early in the morning," said a source.
"Personnel from both sides received some injuries in the stone-pelting. The rival troops later pulled back from the confrontation site after banner drills to defuse the situation," he added.
But the Army, on being contacted, refused to say anything once again. The PLA soldiers continue to needle Indian forces in all the three sectors of the 4,057-km LAC -- western (Ladakh), middle (Uttarakhand, Himachal) and eastern (Sikkim, Arunachal Pradesh) - in the backdrop of both sides having militarily reinforced their positions due to the Dokalm standoff near the Sikkim-Bhutan-Tibet tri-junction, as reported by TOI earlier.
Late last month, 10-15 PLA soldiers had "transgressed" almost one km into a disputed pocket - a mutually agreed "demilitarized zone"-- at Barahoti in the Chamoli district of Uttarakhand two times in quick succession.

Eastern Ladakh, in particular, has emerged as a major flashpoint between the two armies, especially in the areas of Chumarr, Depsang and Pangong Tso, over the last several years. Located at an altitude of 13,900-feet across the Changla Pass, Pangong Tso is a 134-km long brackish lake in which both armies have also deployed armed boats against each other. There are boat, motorised and foot-patrol transgressions on a regular basis in the area. The region became an even bigger flashpoint when, during the 1999 Kargil conflict with Pakistan, China even constructed a "track" right up to the lake's southern bank

"Transgressions occur due to differing perceptions between India and China about where the LAC actually lies, right from eastern Ladakh to Arunachal Pradesh. Around 300 such transgressions by the PLA are recorded every year," said a source.
On the eastern front, China remains adamant about Indian troops unilaterally withdrawing from the ongoing face-off in the Doklam area, which is actually Bhutanese territory but coveted by China. The Doklam imbroglio, of course, is different from the usual transgressions across the LAC since it is located in a third country (Bhutan), and India has reinforced its military posture near the tri-junction in the face of escalating rhetoric from China.
schinnas
BRFite
Posts: 1773
Joined: 11 Jun 2009 09:44

Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by schinnas »

Indian soldiers and PLA pelting stones in Ladakh is a new development. It is just a matter of time before someone miscalculates and gets trigger happy. Just like the political commissar with a bruised ego started the Nathu La incident in 1967, what stops a political commissiar whose behind was hit with a flying rock projectile in front of his troops ordering a firefight to soothe his ego.

Regarding Brahmos, DRDO said earlier in March 2017 that current batch of Brahmos being produced are range extended to 400+ kms. Final Brahmos version will have 900km range which would be a true game changer. However, the first test of 900km Brahmos is expected only by end 2019. Any chance at least some 400 km extended range Brahmos are now sent to border areas.

900km range, sea skimming Brahmos stationed in A&N islands should send shivers down PLAN. It can choke them in IOR and Malaca straights. Militarization of A&N needs to be expedited and several land based and air based Brahmos batteries should be stationed there - both overtly and covertly.

India should export Brahmos to not just Vietnam but to SoKo and Japan as well (assuming Russia allows the sale and US does not veto the purchase by SoKo and Japan).

Unfortunately, only Japan is part of MTCR. Need to quickly add Vietnam and SoKo to the list and they would have to contend with 290km Brahmos while Japan can get 900km version when its ready, assuming Japan wants it.
Narad
BRFite
Posts: 885
Joined: 04 Jan 2010 15:15

Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by Narad »

WTF chinese resorting to stone pelting.. :rotfl:
Now this is some selious escalation about which gobar times has been warning us lately.
Varoon Shekhar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2178
Joined: 03 Jan 2010 23:26

Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by Varoon Shekhar »

I have seen 2 crazy Chinese women and one crazy man on the Toronto transit system. Two of them were yelling about India or toward Indians .One was ranting openly, not directed at anyone in particular, about the Indian and Pakistani nuclear programmes. Another was yelling non stop at 2 Indian looking guys who were obvious strangers. Not sure what the topic was. An old Chinese man on the bus near Toronto's Chinatown was yakking at an Indian looking woman, and even gave a mocking namaste sign, hands together, to her. Again, not sure what the reason was, but it occurred soon after this current spat on the border broke out.
Last edited by Varoon Shekhar on 16 Aug 2017 01:27, edited 1 time in total.
Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by Singha »

We should give #patharbaaz j&k misguided youth once last chance to rejoin national mainstream. Serve a tour of duty stoning pla troops or serve it in jail
DavidD
BRFite
Posts: 1048
Joined: 23 Jun 2010 04:08

Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by DavidD »

Suraj wrote:David, I think you're being enormously naive to think China doesn't spend money on logistics. If anything, the refrain for at least the last 20 years has been that we spend far too little compared to China in the Tibetan sector. There are posters right on this thread with detailed map analyses of the Chinese side. You seem completely unaware of just how much money China has sunk into VERY long logistical tails leading to these mythically effective '50 man troops causing trouble'. Behind every one of those troops is a very long logistical chain that costs China a yummy yuan (rhymes better than pretty penny, eh ?).

And yes, yelling loudly and gesticulating costs you. The more you keep doing that, the less we fear you, and the more we turn you into a caricature. China has so far seen itself as the big guy sitting and trying to make its way into a subcontinental squabble . It now finds itself mired in the same drama, and to be honest, your histrionics are so shockingly over the top that a significant part of the country switched mindsets from being fearful of 'the big guy who cannot be taken on', to 'what a poseur'. The kind of comic roasting China's gone through in the Indian press in the recent past has *never* happened before.

Not that I'm complaining. It's a pleasure to see China reveal itself as just a louder more theatrical Pakistan, and not actually the great power it makes itself to be. For India, the power dynamic with China has changed. Not the big fearsome rival, but someone who can't keep his nerve if taken on.
Sure China spends money on logistics, but they're not for making war, at least not against external threats. You can consult shiv's videos regarding their usefulness in war-making against India.

You need a paradigm shift. Right now you're seeing everything coming from China through the lens of an impending attack on India. China is fundamentally an inward-looking nation, always has been, and the CCP is no different from past rulers of China in that their primary objective is to retain control within China. Try to look at Chinese actions through that lens, and you'll see a different picture.
DrRatnadip
BRFite
Posts: 604
Joined: 31 Dec 2016 00:40

Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by DrRatnadip »

:shock: What the F*** is going on.. Two nuclear powers fighting with stones.. :rotfl: :rotfl:
vasu raya
BRFite
Posts: 1658
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by vasu raya »

IA considers using stones in reply to stone pelters in J&K as beneath them, would rather use Pellets etc., other non lethal means and here you have the mighty PLA resorting to stone pelting though responded in kind.

Wonder whats the Chinese fixation with J&K, create a buffer zone to their CPEC route?
ManishC
BRFite
Posts: 200
Joined: 29 Jun 2008 19:11

Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by ManishC »

A correction in Chinese growth might occur sooner than later http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 074729.cms

Economic neutering is the most feasible and effective way to neutralize the yellow threat. India should act as a catalyst - increase defense spending, make CPEC a stone around the neck around these stone throwers, do not become a market for their crap.
Collapse of USSR is a ready template.
Live and Let Live should be put away next couple of decades towards both Chicken and its green shit to the west.
Locked