Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby tandav » 18 Aug 2017 13:59

Dumal wrote:http://www.rediff.com/news/report/indian-army-divisions-move-to-sikkim-tibet-border/20170818.htm

Clearly there seem to be more options for how this could play out!

Asked about military options that could provide China with a face-saver, a senior general believes the PLA might choose to occupy another strategic border pass, such as the 17,500 foot Lipulekh on the India-China-Nepal tri-junction.

Lipulekh is controlled by India, but is also claimed by Nepal, providing a striking parallel with the India-China-Bhutan context at play at Doklam.

"China could occupy Lipulekh, and use that as a face-saver for a mutual withdrawal from Doklam. Then, after the 19th Party Congress is concluded, all sides could return to the status quo," projects the general, speaking off the record.


Sure ! China can only do so at the invitation of Nepal after the 2 parties sign a China-Nepal territorial defense pact. similar to India-Bhutan pact.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby arun » 18 Aug 2017 14:02

X Posted from the “India and Japan: News and Discussion” thread.

Japan’s Ambassador to India, Kenji Hirramatsu, on Doklam aka Dok La:

On Doklam, Japan Backs India, Says 'Must Not Change Status Quo By Force'

………… "We understand that the area is disputed between China and Bhutan, and that both countries recognize the existence of a dispute," Japanese Ambassador Kenji Hiramatsu told journalists yesterday in response to a question.

"What is important in disputed areas is that all parties involved do not resort to unilateral attempts to change the status quo by force, and resolve the dispute in a peaceful manner."

The envoy said Japan has been watching the situation "very closely" as it "can affect the stability of the entire region."

On India's role, Ambassador Hiramatsu said, "We understand that India is involved in this incident based on bilateral agreements with Bhutan. External Affairs Minister Swaraj has made it clear that India would continue to engage with dialogue through diplomatic channels to find a mutually acceptable solution. We consider this attitude towards peaceful resolution important." ………

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Philip » 18 Aug 2017 14:09

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... r-standoff
Indians decry 'racist' Chinese video on Bhutan border standoff
Propaganda spoof mocking India’s response to land dispute lambasted for depiction of Sikh soldier wobbling his head
A Chinese soldier gestures to an Indian soldier at the disputed Bhutan border.

Michael Safi in Delhi and Tom Phillips in Beijing
Thursday 17 August 2017 11.53 BST Last modified on Thursday 17 August 2017 12.12 BST
Indians have reacted with bemusement and outrage at a “racist” video posted online by Chinese state media, as a highly charged border dispute between the two countries enters its third month.

The Chinese state broadcaster Xinhua published a video on Wednesday highlighting India’s “seven sins” in relation to a standoff between the countries’ armies at the Bhutan-China border.

#TheSpark: 7 Sins of India. It’s time for India to confess its SEVEN SINS. pic.twitter.com/vb9lQ40VPH

August 16, 2017
Indian soldiers crossed into Bhutanese territory in mid-June to block Chinese soldiers from upgrading a road that Beijing says is within its borders, but which Bhutanese leaders claim belongs to them.

As a presenter lists India’s perceived misdeeds, the video repeatedly cuts to a Chinese man wobbling his head, wearing a fake beard and turban, and appearing to feign an Indian English accent.

The turbaned character in the video mocks India’s reaction to the Chinese roadwork, which he likens to someone “building a path in his garden”. It portrays Bhutan, which asked Delhi for military assistance to repel the Chinese, as an unwilling participant in the conflict and a victim of Indian bullying.

Chinese and Indian troops face off in Bhutan border dispute
Read more
The footage is part of a series called The Spark, an English-language segment recently launched by the Chinese state media outlet that appears to be aimed at foreign audiences.

It was posted on Twitter, Facebook and YouTube, which are blocked in China and inaccessible without the use of a virtual private network (VPN) to get past the country’s Great Firewall.

Indians on Twitter have called the video’s exaggerated depiction of a Sikh soldier racist, while the Indian Express newspaper criticised its “collage of poorly designed graphics replete with the soundtrack of canned laughter”.

Ananth Krishnan

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby manjgu » 18 Aug 2017 14:11

ashish raval... 11 ping is only getting his population ready for the communist congress in october is it? why the hell does 11 ping need his population get ready ..its not a democracy..does the communist party give a hoot to the people. its rabble rousing..showing the great PLA... nothing more. Did we threaten Pakis so long to get Kargil vacated? the moment we found out about intrusion we went into action with whatever we had. we didnt make vids about how bad pakis are or make loud slogans.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Philip » 18 Aug 2017 14:20

http://thediplomat.com/2017/08/the-hidd ... tan-trade/

THE PULSE
The Hidden History Behind the Doklam Standoff: Superhighways of Tibetan Trade
A lake close to the Nathula pass in East Sikkim.
Image Credit: Aadil Brar
The Hidden History Behind the Doklam Standoff: Superhighways of Tibetan Trade
How does a controversy over a trading post in Chumbi Valley in the 1950s inform the current China-India stand-off?

By Aadil Brar
August 12, 2017

As China and India enter the seventh week of their military stand-off in Doklam, both countries are putting forward facts and treaties to make their case. But neither has acknowledged the mutually shared histories of trade and commerce across their borderlands, routes that used to connect Leh to Lhasa and Lhasa to Kalimpong. The Radhu family’s story is one of the forgotten aspects of Himalayan trade; the semantics of the current stand-off do everything to preclude claims by the diverse ethnic communities that once traded between historical Tibet and India.

Abdul Wahid Radhu was the last of the generation who could freely traverse the borderlands from Ladakh to Lhasa and from Lhasa to Kalimpong in India. Radhu was a scion of a wealthy Tibetan Muslim trading family based in Ladakh and Lhasa. In a recent reprint of Radhu’s memoir, the world of Himalayan trade comes to life; a world that had existed up until the occupation of Tibet by the People’s Republic of China (PRC) in the 1960s. This is a history of cross-cultural exchange carried out by Tibetan, Ladakhi, Sikkimese, Bhutanese, Uyghur, Nepali, Indian, and Chinese traders across the vast sways of Inner Asia.

This is not just a multiethnic history but also a multi-religious one, including Tibetan Muslim traders, who were the pioneers of trade on trans-Himalayan highways. The trading communities of Muslim heritage in Ladakh were known as Akhon Pa, which is a reference made in Ladakhi villages to mullahs or religious teachers of Islam. In his memoir, Abdul Wahid Radhu recounts leading the biannual Lopchak trading mission between the kingdom of Ladakh and historical Tibet. This mission brought merchandise from various Central Asian markets to Lhasa and made offerings to the Dalai Lama for his support of this trade.

Doklam, the region currently hosting the standoff between China and India, was part of this rich history of trade. Doklam is in the Dromo region and sits at the heart of Chumbi Valley. It historically had three trading agencies: Yatung, Gyantse, and Gartok set up by the British in Southern Tibet.

Yatung Trading Center is the closest to the Doklam region where the current conflict is playing out. This trading center, before the PRC occupation of Tibet, was a nodal point for the caravan traders traveling between Lhasa and Kalimpong. The Indian government owned a building at this location, with a substantial staff of Tibetan and Indian heritage, who were expelled from the building after the occupation. Claude Arpi’s documentation of the affair has clarified that the PRC had agreed in 1958 to let India maintain this building via a lease from the Chinese side. The PRC later changed its position and ended India’s access to the Yatung Trade Agency in Chumbi valley. After Indian officials were asked to leave this agency, Indian trade agent J.S. Jangpani reported that instructions were given to the local Tibetan families to mistreat any Indian traders that they came across and remind them that Chinese army is ready to counter any challenge that the collaboration between United States and India could pose.

A glimpse of India’s Yatung Trading Agency building in Chumbi Valley. Photo by Yuvraj Singh.
On March 11, 1963, China’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs blamed the Indian officers who had passed through Yatung on their way from Beijing to India for destroying parts of their own trading agency’s building. India’s Ministry of External Affairs denied any such act and blamed the local Chinese authorities for inciting local community to attack the agency building. India was never able to pursue any claims to this property in Chumbi Valley, bringing to an end a long history of trade and cultural exchange. A vague idea of borders began to emerge and people forgot about the ancient super highway of the Himalayas.

Yet the remnants of this history are spread across the eastern Himalayas, if one knows where to look. Hotels and tour agencies in Sikkim and the Darjeeling region named “Yatung Hotel” or “Yatung Tours” remind visitors about it. The city of Kalimpong has multiple remnants of that era; the offices of trading corporations that used to function in Kalimpong are falling apart, but they testify to critical histories of trade and culture in the Himalayas.

The Yatung affair between China and India has important parallels to the current Doklam stand-off. From a historical perspective, it can be argued that the crisis in Doklam has been incubating for decades. Both countries have never been able to fully acknowledge the historically porous nature of this border, or acknowledge the existence of communities who used to live and trade through these lands. Buddhist and Muslim Tibetans have a long shared history of cultural and religious exchange, but both communities now live in exile across the Himalayas.

If the PRC wants to imbibe the ideals of trade and commerce with its One Belt, One Road plan, it would need to revisit the networks that used to connect people across the trans-Himalayan world. It is the mobility of people that made ancient trade possible across the Himalayas, and not a showcase of military strength.

Aadil Brar is a National Geographic Young Explorer fellow based in Gangtok, Sikkim.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby kmkraoind » 18 Aug 2017 14:47

Cross posting, and if Mods think this is not appropriate thread, they can act as they please.

Vietnam confirms purchase of cruise missiles from India

Vietnam's government has confirmed it has taken delivery of a batch of short-range ramjet supersonic cruise missiles from India.

Foreign ministry spokeswoman Le Thi Thu Hang said at a press briefing on Thursday that Vietnam is developing defense cooperation with India to allow the country to pursue its defense policies.

“The arms purchase is in line with Vietnam’s peaceful national defense policies aimed at protecting the country,” Hang said.


If we read between the lines. Brahmos cant be exported to any nation if India or Russia does not agree. It means sale of Brahmos to Vietnam has Russia's blessings, and Russia does not want to be a Chinese pet, and has disagreements on geopolitical issues. Only time will tell exactly "what."

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby chola » 18 Aug 2017 14:53

kancha wrote:Folks, posted another blog last night .. a continuation of a previous blog on calling the PLA's bluff. May have a look

Blog Link

Twitter Link

.. So when I reached Juba to reinforce Sect south we used to see Chinese soldiers in well equipped and modern attire with hi tech equipment. Therefore my belief of Chinese soldier being better to Indian soldier strengthened. So I always used to be afraid of its negative effects on our boys ..

.. By the time No 7 platoon of Indian Company reached the perimeter, Chinese had abandoned their posts and moved back to safer places exposing IDPs to fire from outside. When one of the Chinese officer was asked for the reason they have withdrawn, he said , “It’s not safe out there.

.. Next day, When rebel forces were fighting the Govt forces at Northern perimeter, a CHINBAT soldier was busy shooting the war scenes. Ill trained militia aimed and shot a RPG at CHINBAT soldier recording ongoing war from BMP, killing two Chinese soldiers and injuring 5 others.

It was known to every south Sudanese​ and UN employee in South Sudan that they were saved by Indian company.

.. Secondly, Chinese refused to perform the task assigned by force HQ. Task was to evacuate NGO workers who were threatened by south sudan Govt forces. Later on it was revealed that they were raped by Govt forces.

But at the same time when I ask my boys of their opinion about Chinese troops, the war had changed their and my impression or opinion about Chinese. :twisted:



This would be such an easy fight if we only fvcking attack. Waiting for that first move by the PRC is nonsensical. If they are too afraid to fight some irregulars in South Sudan, they are not going to attack the IA.

Fvcking irritating. Probably get me banned again. But frustrating to see us refusing a historic victory with no chance of failure against a soft SYRE nation that can't fight but has a big mouth and a P5 pedigree that can enhance our global standing.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Aditya_V » 18 Aug 2017 15:15

Malayappan wrote:This should make many on the board happy -

Vietnam confirms purchase of cruise missiles from India

Vietnam's government has confirmed it has taken delivery of a batch of short-range ramjet supersonic cruise missiles from India.
She said the strategic comprehensive partnership between Vietnam and India is growing in various areas and contributing to peace, stability and development in the region and the world.


I think this should be cross posted in the Indian Missiles Thread. Great news

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby nam » 18 Aug 2017 15:25

kmkraoind wrote:
If we read between the lines. Brahmos cant be exported to any nation if India or Russia does not agree. It means sale of Brahmos to Vietnam has Russia's blessings, and Russia does not want to be a Chinese pet, and has disagreements on geopolitical issues. Only time will tell exactly "what."


Vietnam already has Yakhnot. So they got an updated missile. Russia would not say no, when potentially more Kilo orders are in the pipeline. Meanwhile they are getting 50% of the sales.

So in a way.. it is all Russia.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby g.sarkar » 18 Aug 2017 15:44

For what ever its worth:
http://www.oneindia.com/international/d ... 24350.html
Doklam standoff: Japan throws its weight behind India
Written By: Vicky Nanjappa Published: Friday, August 18, 2017, 7:56 [IST]
Putting its weight behind India amidst the Doklam standoff, Japan has said that China should make no attempt to change the status quo on the ground by force.
Japanese ambassador Kenji Hiramatsu said Japan was watching the situation closely, Hiramatsu said it had the potential to affect regional stability. "As far as India's role is concerned, we understand that India is involved in this incident based on bilateral agreements with Bhutan.
...

Gautam

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby samirdiw » 18 Aug 2017 16:08

Can a corps HQ and majority of its men be stationed outside of its command area during peace time?

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Hari Seldon » 18 Aug 2017 16:40

Once shooting starts, fog of war engulfs all.

If Surat 1994 plague was indeed bio warfare, and has plausible deniability who knows how far a shooting war will go in getting such nasty weapons in the hands of insurgent groups?

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby UlanBatori » 18 Aug 2017 17:12

Shanghai Fosun Pharmaceutical Group’s proposed $1.3 billion takeover of Indian drugmaker Gland Pharma

Wow! Did they think they were taking over GRand Phalma? :shock:

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby gauravsh » 18 Aug 2017 17:21

Meanwhile ...... :D :D :D
http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/indias-new-move-with-brahmos-cruise-missile-likely-to-anger-china-1739183?pfrom=home-lateststories
Senior Vietnamese journalists have indicated to NDTV that the first batch of missiles arrived a few days ago.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby UlanBatori » 18 Aug 2017 17:34

From FP report on Urumqui:
"Kill the Han, smash the Hui [another Islamic minority], drive the Mongols out."
:shock:
Well, at least they are offering chauffeur service.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Singha » 18 Aug 2017 18:30

perhaps the doklam thing was rage against the vietnam deal. if it arrived a few days ago, would have been quietly negotiated without media exposure a few months ago...

we should proactively offer it to anyone in that region , also conventional Pralay and Agni1. Indonesia because of its alleged human rights record could find it hard to get arms from US/EU. Thailand too could use some.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Sumair » 18 Aug 2017 19:25


nam
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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby nam » 18 Aug 2017 19:30

Looks like we waited to Barak8 to be fully operational on P15A before selling to Vietnam.

Chinis will obviously be sending high Mach ASHM to Pakis, as soon as we sell to Vietnam.

We have a counter in Barak8.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Ashokk » 18 Aug 2017 19:33

Government confirms 'incident' took place between Indian and Chinese troops in Ladakh
NEW DELHI: India on Friday confirmed that an "incident" had taken place between the Indian and Chinese troops near Pangong Lake in Ladakh and also reiterated that it will continue to engage with Beijing to find a mutually acceptable solution to the Doklam standoff.

"Today, I can confirm that there was an incident at Pangong Tso on August 15," MEA spokesperson Raveesh Kumar said when questioned by reporters about the reported scuffle that involved stone-throwing and fisticuffs.

"Such incidents do not contribute to peace and tranquillity at the border and are not in the interest of either side," he added.

The MEA spokesperson said two meetings of the border patrol management teams had already taken place in Ladakh and in Nathu La in the past couple of weeks.

Asked about the current status of the standoff, he said, "It is a sensitive issue... We will continue to engage with China to find mutually acceptable solution. Peace and tranquility in border areas are important pre-requisites for smooth development of bilateral relations."

However, he quipped, "I am not an astrologer, so cannot predict", when asked by when the Doklam standoff will be resolved.

Questioned about a mocking racist video put out by Chinese official agency, Xinhua, the MEA spokesperson said, "I will not dignify it with a comment."

In the context of floods in UP, Bihar etc, Raveesh Kumar said that China had not shared hydrological data of transborder rivers like Sutlej and Brahmaputra with India this year. "The data is shared between May and October, but this year it has not happened," he said.

MEA also dismissed reports that India had supplied Brahmos cruise missiles to Vietnam, which would have been a red rag to China, which is engaged in a maritime dispute with Vietnam in the South China Sea.

Questioned about Bhutan's pushback to China on territorial claims, MEA spokesperson said the June 29 statement was clear. Bhutanese government clarified that Doklam belonged to them and not China.

Asked about the reported comments of the Japanese Ambassador on Doklam face off and if India welcomes it, Kumar gave a very guarded reaction, saying the remarks speak for themselves.

Meanwhile, China hit back at Japan on Friday for its support to India on the Doklam crisis.

Japan is the first country to openly speak on the crisis and back India. Japanese envoy Kenji Hiramatsu had said yesterday the region was disputed and Tokyo understands why New Delhi got embroiled in it.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby shiv » 18 Aug 2017 20:35

Singha wrote:perhaps the doklam thing was rage against the vietnam deal. if it arrived a few days ago, would have been quietly negotiated without media exposure a few months ago...

we should proactively offer it to anyone in that region , also conventional Pralay and Agni1. Indonesia because of its alleged human rights record could find it hard to get arms from US/EU. Thailand too could use some.

Actually Doklam is only part of an increased Chinese tendency to indulge in gaandmasti. It started in January 2017 with a boast about how Chinese forces would land in Delhi - which is when I started the "Shiver or die laughing" thread. If fact it was that thread that prompted me to work on GE and make all those videos.

This was the Chinese boast. In Chineebhasha
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S25VbQT64sw&html5=1

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby UlanBatori » 18 Aug 2017 20:58

So they decided last year to do this.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby sanjaykumar » 18 Aug 2017 21:35

UlanBatori wrote:From FP report on Urumqui:
"Kill the Han, smash the Hui [another Islamic minority], drive the Mongols out."
:shock:
Well, at least they are offering chauffeur service.



Thanks for referring to that source,

Uighur, like other ethnic minorities, are allowed two or three children rather than one, but family planning officials patrol villages peeking into bins for evidence of menstruation.

The world is indeed a strange and sordid place. Or perhaps just China.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby RamSuresh » 18 Aug 2017 21:40

http://thediplomat.com/2017/08/can-china-be-taken-seriously-on-its-word-to-negotiate-disputed-territory/

Namrata Goswamy in Diplomat. Chinese have a habit of negotiating agreements and then unilaterally breaking them.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Iyersan » 18 Aug 2017 22:05

Doklam issue is getting funnier by the day

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Singha » 18 Aug 2017 22:05

officials were pretty tough in the 1 child era. long needles with saline soln were injected into the womb. womb police were always out sniffing for violators

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 63521.html

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Jarita » 18 Aug 2017 22:53

g.sarkar wrote:Even Khan is taking notice!
http://www.newsweek.com/china-riles-ind ... off-651851
WORLD
CHINA RILES INDIA WITH 'RACIST' VIDEO OVER TENSE BORDER STANDOFF
BY SOFIA LOTTO PERSIO ON 8/17/17 AT 9:15 AM
Tensions between China and India over a border area disputed with Bhutan along the Himalayan Mountains have reached a new peak after the Chinese state media released a video mocking India's stance with "racist undertones."
China state-controlled news agency Xinhua published a video on its English-language YouTube channel under the title "7 Sins of India," an apparent attempt to ridicule India’s stance on the ongoing border standoff while advertising China’s position to a foreign audience.
The video is the latest installment of a recently launched web show called The Spark, which aims to discuss news items with an irreverent tone. Running for just over three minutes, the video published Monday criticizes India's actions in seven points: "trespassing, violating a bilateral convention, trampling international law, confusing right and wrong, putting the blame on the victim, hijacking a small neighbor and sticking to a mistake knowingly."
The video also featured an actor wearing a turban, aviator sunglasses and a curly fake beard, who was purportedly impersonating India, tilting his head as he spoke with a caricatural Indian accent. At one point, he intimidated another actor, representing Bhutan, with a pair of scissors.
The video was labeled "racist" in the Indian press and among social media users. The Hindustan Times newspaper said the video had "racist overtones." The Financial Express called it a "bizarre racist propaganda video."
....

Gautam



Their attempt at being funny is funny

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Jarita » 18 Aug 2017 22:55

NRao wrote:Need to see if Bannon prevails in the WH. He is up against the likes of Cohen and G&S, pretty formidable. But, he is one that can actually help India in unintended ways.

However, there seems to be critical mass against China, at this moment. Which plays into Indian hands. The best China can do is come up with bad vids.


He is gone and that is not good for us

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Yayavar » 18 Aug 2017 23:03

Singha wrote:officials were pretty tough in the 1 child era. long needles with saline soln were injected into the womb. womb police were always out sniffing for violators

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 63521.html


first hand info of various things in 'Red Dust' by Ma Jian - in 80's.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/92325.Red_Dust

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Singha » 18 Aug 2017 23:34

winnie the pooh video is now widely known http://edition.cnn.com/2017/08/18/asia/ ... index.html

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Suraj » 18 Aug 2017 23:55

DavidD wrote:That's exactly right, the English and Chinese versions are completely different beasts. Since you've been keeping up, tell me, what's the Chinese version of Xinhua or People's Daily saying about Doklam, or India in general? Are they preparing the population for a war with India? Can you find a single article about India in general on their front page the past few days?

So why is it that you can find news about Doklam on the English versions front and center, but not a peep on the Chinese version? I'll let you ponder that as I've already said my piece.

There isn't a whole lot to ponder. The Chinese version is definitely far more fast moving. And you expect far too much of an attention span from the rageboys who post there. It's absolutely true that China has way too many enemies of its own creation to spend much time on press about us. It's quite hard to keep up with deliberately pissing off Japan, Korea, Philippines, Vietnam, Bhutan, India and more, all at once. Things are much easier for India. There's just you guys, and your little mini me to our west.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Bart S » 19 Aug 2017 00:15

Looks like Steve Bannon is toast. Will be interesting to see if the course correction on China remains on track with him gone.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby UlanBatori » 19 Aug 2017 00:39

Oh, wow! I had noo idea of the Winnie The Pooh history (banned in PeeAllSee). That IndiaToday creation really struck home: deserves a National Award, maybe a Cannes entry. The contrast is so stark, including Indians' happy willingness and freedom to caricature NaMo.

VELY vely intelesting that the article panning that video was pulled, too. So the Officialdom commits a total booboo, they know that they did it, and they censor another official-backed article that says so. Why? Esp. now that they are being ridiculed all over the world? I mean, when the buggers read the SeeEnnEnn and Guardian articles, and note all the millions of hits that the IndiaToday video gets showing WTP, Eleven's H&D is going to be so violated that the Announcer Woman, her Producer, Director are all looking at 10-20 in the Gobi Pickaxe Squad.

Trouble is, this is a lot worse (100X) than the Poriticar Commissar's spectacles being knocked off at Nathu La. Every senior officer will have seen this.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby UlanBatori » 19 Aug 2017 01:06

Interesting about Bannon. Saturday Night Live will sorely miss him. But Bannon was arguing an unsustainable line. On the one hand he wanted punitive trade measures against China, but OTOH he was throwing in the towel on countering NoKo militarily, saying China had already won that and NoKo would be a weapon state.

Which of these actually got him out?

Since trade with china is not going to be cut off just like that (too many big US companies would scream) this means that Bannon's position was lose-lose. Someone who argued to leave trade untouched, but kick the cr** out of NoKo and dominate the SCS with sea-air power, would have a more viable plan with a long-term way out for US interests in the region. At least I would hope so: that's the only way I see to ruin PeeAllSee's long-term plans. The territorial expansion must be rolled back so that they become once again petty vendors, at the mercy of the customer, not colonialists imposing market dominance. At least I HOPE this happens, and the Chinese are cut down to size.

UlanBator YakDung Inc sold all $656B of Japan stocks yesterdin. Spectacular run-up this year, but too much downside risk at this point by any scenario.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Bart S » 19 Aug 2017 02:09

Poo Jinping? :mrgreen:

UlanBatori wrote:Trouble is, this is a lot worse (100X) than the Poriticar Commissar's spectacles being knocked off at Nathu La. Every senior officer will have seen this.

Youtube is blocked in China.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby ramana » 19 Aug 2017 02:23

UB, Bannon out will be seen as + for China.
Wonder if this is the accommodation that China wants assurance on.

In 1962 they got assurance that US wont support Taiwan moves in the East.
This led to their 1962 aggression along the McMahon line.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby NRao » 19 Aug 2017 02:59

Jarita wrote:
NRao wrote:Need to see if Bannon prevails in the WH. He is up against the likes of Cohen and G&S, pretty formidable. But, he is one that can actually help India in unintended ways.

However, there seems to be critical mass against China, at this moment. Which plays into Indian hands. The best China can do is come up with bad vids.


He is gone and that is not good for us


Too early to make such a call.

Bannon has only changed his address - key: by mutual agreement.

He can either go to his old mouth piece or start a brand new "news" outlet - either way he WILL get at those inside teh WH that opposed him.

With Trump siding with "his base" (33% of teh US pop) it should be a good bet that Bannon will still have influence. In fact I would argue he will have even more - given that Trump will nto change.



Secondly, Bannon would/could have helped India. But teh bigger thorn in the Chinese behind is the PACOM and its head. China, just prior to Xi's visit, tried very desperately to replace Adm Harry Harris, but failed because two Senators intervened (no idea if Trump would have agreed). On the Indo-Sino front it is the military angle that is a LOT more crucial than the economic one. China is already ticked off because of the closeness of India and the US. Now with this oil deal China should see a few more gaskets spring a leak.




I just do not see China getting any assist on the Indo-Sino border disputes (they tried very hard - see above). I can see Matis/Kelly/Tilerson thinking about such deals, but PACOM + US Senate will surely resist them.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Rudradev » 19 Aug 2017 03:23

^Agreed. Bannon was a lone voice. If the vector sum of opinions across all relevant GOTUS institutions opposed Bannon's views on fighting a trade war against China, he could not have done anything in that realm. Conversely, if the combined weight of institutional opinion has come around to the same view as Bannon's regarding China, his departure from WH will not make much difference.

Also note that not everything Bannon said, even on US Foreign Policy, was good for us. He advocated a total US abandonment of Afghanistan (== ceding it to Pakistani and Chinese control via Taliban). Also, Bannon wanted to restrict US hostilities against China to a "trade war" and argued against pursuing a military option on the Korean peninsula. As NRao ji says, India's interests are much better served by people like Admiral Harris who advocate a militarily hawkish approach to China on the Korean peninsula as well as the SCS.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby V_Raman » 19 Aug 2017 03:53

IMO, China is waiting for assurances on NK will not be unified with SK. If they get that, then they will attack India regardless of what happens in NK.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby NRao » 19 Aug 2017 04:10

NK will have no bearing on Indo-Sino disputes. In fact there was a mention that in the event the Doklam episode escalated that Chinese problems would surface along the SCS rim!!!! Besides there are some 4/5 US Generals talking at the same time: take the worst statement from them as the key. Which is a nuclear NK is unacceptable. China is in no mood to defanged NK. Not in Chinese interest.


BTW. Steve Bannon returns to Breitbart after ouster from White House. I fully expect a LOT of noise from him. Trump should start looking like a centrist here on out.


Start practicing saying President Pence.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby samirdiw » 19 Aug 2017 04:33



Really like how the young man presents the Indian side.


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