Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby sarkar » 19 Aug 2017 22:29

UlanBatori wrote:Incident was reported to have occurred on North Bank of lake. Video from north looking south, which makes sense. Then shadows are pointing east. So evening.
If India holds north shore then it is well inside Indian side of LAC (vertical, western, leg of the L-shaped lake).


News says 6AM and 9AM.
http://indianexpress.com/article/india/ ... a-4800536/
According to PTI, soldiers of the People’s Liberation Army (PLA) tried to enter the Indian side in two areas – Finger Four and Finger Five – twice between 6 am and 9 am yesterday. But on both the occasions their attempts were thwarted by alert Indian troops.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby AdityaM » 19 Aug 2017 22:38

sum wrote:Did anyone see the stone pelting video between the 2 armies? Its on the Shatrujeet page on FB

Quite a lot of stoning and one of the Indian soldier flattened a Chinese guard with a flying kick :shock:

Looks like quite a serious scuffle and a single gunshot could have escalated quickly


It seems that the Indian soldier was the one at receiving end of kicks & stone on face

https://twitter.com/theprintindia/statu ... 0254029825

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Guddu » 19 Aug 2017 22:40

Does anyone have access to a map which shows Finger 4 and 5 regions, without that its going to be very hard to pinpoint the location.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby UlanBatori » 19 Aug 2017 22:45

Ok! (buggers get up early in the morning to create trouble, hain?) So shadows are from east to west. Then the video is shot from the north (thx snahata, my madarssa math is messed up as usual). Lake to the south. Anyway local terrain may be very jagged, no telling where the water might be.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby sanjayc » 19 Aug 2017 22:47

Schmidt wrote:Reg the video , the right side seem to be the Chinese as they are wearing a lighter shade of green uniform

The Indians seem to be on the left

Initially there is a large group of Indian soldiers who were standing behind some bund , they joined in the fracas later once things started heating up


The visuals show that a stone pelting incident took place at Pangong Tso lake in Ladakh, where Chinese soldiers are seen throwing stones and bashing at Indo-Tibetan border personnel (ITBP) with iron rods. The soldiers on the north appear to be from the People's Liberation Army and the ones on the bottom in khakhi attire are Indian soldiers.

http://www.firstpost.com/world/sikkim-s ... 50003.html

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby UlanBatori » 19 Aug 2017 22:57

It does say FAKING NEWS on the top....

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Bishwa » 19 Aug 2017 22:58

"Soldiers of the People's Liberation Army (PLA) tried to enter the Indian side in two areas -- Finger Four and Finger Five -- twice between 6 am and 9 am. But on both the occasions their attempts were thwarted by alert Indian troops, they said."

From www.ndtv.com/india-news/indian-troops-f ... rt-1737968

This was one of the earliest reports of the incident.

As it says it was morning - between 6am and 9am

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Chandragupta » 19 Aug 2017 23:03

So the PLA has martial artists. That kick was chinese and it was our guys at the receiving end of both the kick and stones. I am confused on which side pushed the other side out. The discussion here is giving it to the guys on the left but they seem to be Chinese? Need to re-analyse with neutrality.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Singha » 19 Aug 2017 23:06

My ai algos predict they will try to ambush and either arrest or kill a small patrol if they can

Out patrols need to go put in atleast couple 100 strength with artillery back at base warmed up and ready..its best to lash back immediately before higher ups decide to talk

No more rifles pointing down issue cg rifles mmg and rpgs for their own safety. Armchair peaceniks dont have to fight

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby UlanBatori » 19 Aug 2017 23:10

The left/top are chinese, and they withdraw after the fight. I think their read banner carrier had come far under the ledge, and ran back. The kick was a soosai measure to dislodge our guy who was being quite effective with stones from a high point. Yeah, one of ours got hit on the head. I didn't see any iron rods etc. That may have been at another point.

Video may be totally fake: it appeared at the site giving FAKE NEWS.

Does military allow such videos of incidents to be leaked out so fast?

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby pankajs » 19 Aug 2017 23:14

http://claudearpi.blogspot.in/2017/08/t ... tions.html
The First Chinese Retaliations

Image
The red line is the LAC and is the 4th finger. This seems to have happened to the east of that point. To the west is the place where the film 3 idiot was shot. There is the yellow marker on the map and a name but it is unreadable.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby sarkar » 19 Aug 2017 23:20

Chinese are pushing us to escalate the situation. Given the fact that they attacked with iron rods and stones, may be with an intention to severely injure or kill our soldier without even firing bullet. They want the conflict and want us to fire the first bullet. This is time to being clever and use innovative ideas to pin down these chinese goons.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby pankajs » 19 Aug 2017 23:28

https://chandrashekharasandprints.wordp ... -part-iii/
Remembering Rezang La; Part III

Couldn't locate the first 2 parts. It has a map of the area. The last Indian place before the LAC is called the Sirijap. The area enclosed within the red border is the area lost to the Chinese in 1962 and after. The markings may not be fully accurate because it shows Sirijap inside the are where as Claude Apri shows it just to the west of the LAC.
Image

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Chandragupta » 19 Aug 2017 23:29

Time to use rubber bullets or pellet guns perhaps? Or tasers? Even tear gas can be used no?

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby anupmisra » 19 Aug 2017 23:38

amohan2001 wrote:Why are Chinese afraid of firing bullets?


Because two can play that game.Whatever the outcome, Eleven Gin Peg then can not deny a confrontation such as that in the next CPC jirga.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby anupmisra » 19 Aug 2017 23:40

sarkar wrote:Chinese are pushing us to escalate the situation. Given the fact that they attacked with iron rods and stones, may be with an intention to severely injure or kill our soldier without even firing bullet. They want the conflict and want us to fire the first bullet. This is time to being clever and use innovative ideas to pin down these chinese goons.


Use high altitude guard dogs.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Bishwa » 19 Aug 2017 23:45

The yellow marker in Claude Arpis article says Sinjab. In the Chushul area there are posts called Sinjab. Not sure if this is it.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby pankajs » 19 Aug 2017 23:51

It is Sirijap

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby pankajs » 19 Aug 2017 23:56

The second map has Sirijap correctly located. It is outside our side of the LAC. So between LAC [4th finger] and Sirijap.

https://www.google.co.in/maps/place/Sir ... 78.8439268

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby anupmisra » 20 Aug 2017 00:10

It does not make sense. The ITBP contingent had a water body behind it.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Suresh S » 20 Aug 2017 00:52

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/33.7349 ... m2!4m1!3e0

I marked the spot with a marker. Look carefully I think this is the spot of the incident . Looks like an Indian army camp is very close to the place of incident . It is about 1.3 miles from the indo china border on our side.The sobs came on our side of the border.The thing that marks the spot is the overhanging rocks and the shadow it creates.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Guddu » 20 Aug 2017 01:44

You are probably correct, but there is little flat space, looks like enough space for only a road. Here's another one much closer to the border, after 180 degrees rotation. Pins identify, potential location of photography, crease on the land and potential area of conflict.
https://i.imgur.com/jp03oEz.jpg
If the above is correct, we might have fought on their claimed area.
Last edited by Guddu on 20 Aug 2017 01:50, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby UlanBatori » 20 Aug 2017 01:50

Of course they were on Indian side of the border (video would not have been released otherwise....) :mrgreen:

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Guddu » 20 Aug 2017 01:57

But remember if Indian claim is upto Sirijap, and fighting was at 4th finger (Google border red line goes thro here), thats an area that we claim. Also the Chinese built road ends in this area. Fifth finger is closer to the ITBP camp.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Guddu » 20 Aug 2017 02:18

This is the indian ITBP camp (finger 5 ?), pins show ITBP painted on rocks and 14 painted on rocks. Dont think the Chinese would dare to come up to this area, so it must be closer to finger 4, which Google shows the red line running thro. Picture if clicked magnifies a bit.

https://i.imgur.com/Hhjxe9L.jpg

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Bishwa » 20 Aug 2017 02:51

This article has a lot more information which one can correlate to the video and the maps
1) "One ITBP man sustained head injuries"
2) "The scuffle at Finger Four took place at 6 a.m., and the one at Finger Five at 7.30 a.m. "
3) " The mountains sloping on the sides of the river form finger-like structures. As per this, India holds till Finger Four but claims till Finger 8, while China holds from Finger 8 beyond but claims till Finger Four. So to enforce their claims each side regularly patrols till their claim area."
4) "“We normally stop them at Finger Five area. That is when scuffles happen. "

It sounds like the first surprise intrusion penetrated till finger four and the second was stopped in finger five.

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/l ... 504062.ece



This article says PLA forces were in two areas finger four and finger five. India claims the area till finger eight but controls and dominates till finger four.

Reference : http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/indi ... 26652.html

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Suresh S » 20 Aug 2017 03:46

I re read about the battle of rezang la again today. It is the duty of every Indian to know about this battle. It is not shiny weapons that wins wars or prevent catastrophe but a few resolute men.It is the same area which has awakened past memories of major shaitan singh and major dhan singh thapa

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Gagan » 20 Aug 2017 04:09

Maj Dhan Singh Thapa was in Srijap, this was a few days before the attack on Rezang La

Now if the IAF had bombed the crap out of Rutog, where ALL the chinese troops were spawning out of, the chinese would have died of hunger and fear, their advance would have stopped dead in the tracks

Can someone please mark the 8 fingers on the map please?

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Gagan » 20 Aug 2017 04:10

Wow! Guddu, Snahata, Pankajs
Wonderful work guys, keep it going!

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Mort Walker » 20 Aug 2017 04:24

AdityaM wrote:
sum wrote:Did anyone see the stone pelting video between the 2 armies? Its on the Shatrujeet page on FB

Quite a lot of stoning and one of the Indian soldier flattened a Chinese guard with a flying kick :shock:

Looks like quite a serious scuffle and a single gunshot could have escalated quickly


It seems that the Indian soldier was the one at receiving end of kicks & stone on face

https://twitter.com/theprintindia/statu ... 0254029825


If you watch the full video on YouTube, you'll see the troops on the right have a white banner, the Chinese troops carry the red banner. It did seem the ITBP was carrying weapons. They should have fired on the Chinese once one of their comrades was down. The video was taken by an ITBP at a higher point. An LMG could have taken care of the PLA soldiers.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Mort Walker » 20 Aug 2017 04:27

Chandragupta wrote:Time to use rubber bullets or pellet guns perhaps? Or tasers? Even tear gas can be used no?


Just shoot the Han. Kill them by the bushel.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Guddu » 20 Aug 2017 04:37

https://i.imgur.com/z9ECUKv.jpg

Based on the above the ITBP camp is at Finger 4, which we hold, the fight likely happened at Finger 5, which is the Google border and then we claim up to Finger 8 which ends just before Sirijap (which is consistent with the statement that they hold after finger 8 (Sirijap) and claim upto finger 4 (ITBP location), with fights occurring at Finger 5 (Google border).

The nearest Chinese outpost is about 15 km to the east (as the crow flies)
https://i.imgur.com/3lFVeB4.jpg
Last edited by Guddu on 20 Aug 2017 04:49, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Gagan » 20 Aug 2017 04:46


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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Bade » 20 Aug 2017 04:48

The red line above is the LAC, what India claims is further east of Sirijap approximately where there is a lot of sediment deposit into the lake. But the Indian patrols definitely do not go too far perhaps beyond finger 5,6 areas short of Sirijap where there seems to be a road extending from the Chinese side of LAC.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Gagan » 20 Aug 2017 05:10

This post has details of the battle around Gurung Hill, and some maps and photos

https://chandrashekharasandprints.wordpress.com/2011/08/24/ladakh-escapades-part-vi/
Image

Rezang La
Image
Last edited by Gagan on 20 Aug 2017 05:12, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby pankajs » 20 Aug 2017 05:10

Gagan wrote:pankajs,
Chandrashekhara's three blog posts on Rezang La:
Remembering Rezang La, Part I
Remembering Rezang La, Part II
Remembering Rezang La, Part III

Thanks. There is also a series of posts on his trip to the lake. I only got to read the part IV. I couldn't locate the rest 'cos I did not try too hard. Would be worth the time given details he has provided in the Rezang La post.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby pankajs » 20 Aug 2017 05:14

Bade wrote:The red line above is the LAC, what India claims is further east of Sirijap approximately where there is a lot of sediment deposit into the lake. But the Indian patrols definitely do not go too far perhaps beyond finger 5,6 areas short of Sirijap where there seems to be a road extending from the Chinese side of LAC.

Correct. At that point the lake is narrow and shallow and to the north is a valley wider then the ones in the area. The Indian version of the border goes along the bed of this valley up north of the lake.

Change to google.co.in to get the Indian claim line.
Google.com for the LAC. I almost missed this trick and was confused on the LAC till I saw the Claude April maps.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Gagan » 20 Aug 2017 05:25

Look What I found:
Image

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby NRao » 20 Aug 2017 05:26

Sorry OT here, but continuing a previous discussion on this thread

NRao wrote:Start practicing saying President Pence.


This from Bannon

The Trump presidency that we fought for, and won, is over


Done. Thx.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Bade » 20 Aug 2017 05:39

The LAC in the Chushul sector south of the lake is pretty close to the border roads in India, whereas the Chinese highway is miles away even from the claim line of India. This area must be settled if there is war till at least the Indian claim line. Places like Hanle where India has an Astronomy observatory and in future can be a site for multiple high altitude facilities for research is close to the Chinese line of fire.

If India can push them till Rutog then, Aksai Hind does become easy to deal with too.


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