Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Singha » 20 Aug 2017 09:36

We need to launch a raid on finger 8 , thrash the occupants with long lathis and return

We Are just reacting if fight was in finger4

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Gagan » 20 Aug 2017 09:37

Iyersan wrote:War is imminent. China is calibrating the escalation. We will kill them ... kill them all

Somehow, I am not so sure, there will be war.

Things will cool down after November

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Gagan » 20 Aug 2017 09:38

Singha wrote:We need to launch a raid on finger 8 , thrash the occupants with long lathis and return

We Are just reacting if fight was in finger4

Sink all the 4 boats in Finger 6 and play Yo Yo Honey singh songs on loudspeakers all day long

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Singha » 20 Aug 2017 09:39

They will look to manufacture a small company level incident kill some 100 indians and then use our useless mea babus and msm to bleat for immediate peace talks before we hit back

Word must be given to all army units kill 5 of theirs for every 1 of ours and iaf should support ... if they plan any such stunt

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Mort Walker » 20 Aug 2017 09:41

Gagan wrote:It is poker bluff, but they do have numbers.
What they don't have is air cover - very very scanty and very poor quality at that

What else do we need now?


If we had the LCA in significant numbers, that is 1000+ today, then the Chinese would never have said anything about Dok La and simply cleared out of the place.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby manjgu » 20 Aug 2017 09:45

even in the low res ..one can see red flag is to the left..right side is ITBP... the chinese guy kicks the ITBP guy who gets up and starts shooting stones... in the begining as someone rightly pointed out..ITBP is giving a sound thrashing to a chinese.. but IMHO this is a big victory for the indians..chinese reduced to throwing stones !!! hahahaha.. what about their JF's J's.. king kong mizziles? looks both sides backed off after a point...disengaged..I dont know wtf are two ITBP guys doing holding banner when a brawl is going on !! they had a vantage position and should have gone ballastic...

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby shiv » 20 Aug 2017 09:52

Red banner and white banner are both Indian. The "lost " Chinese soldiers have no banners. Even in the middle of the fight the red banner guy tries to open it and hold it for the Chinese to read and keeps holding it even as they retreat towards the lake. He gets pushed about but steps back and opens it again as a guy near him throws a stone at the Chinese guy who falls.

One guy standing next to the red banner throws a rock that hits a Chinese guy on the head and that guy falls. The retreating Chinese from the right come to pull the fallen guy out

The white banner guys are instructed to stay where they are - that can be seen clearly and they do stay there on the "left/foreground" (right corner)

The guy who appears from under the hill and delivers the flying kick is Indian. The guy who falls and gets up eventually retreats to the right/lakeside

I love the video. But I don't have the best software to highlight parts of videos - it will take me a while before I can highlight what I have said. If I can do a commentary I wlll.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby manju » 20 Aug 2017 09:58

shiv wrote:
Gagan wrote:Shiv ji
He is mistaken on this occasion
Can see ITBP uniforms and the site is now known

Manu Pubby has written a post on twitter, where endorses that ITBP is on the right of the video. The videos I think started with him releasing it on twitter

Gagan. I can't understand why we Indians insist on killing a great psy ops opportunity by arguing and saying "No the Chinese are winning". No one else does that. And you're not the only one. Maybe that is why we fall for propaganda pics from other countries. We are just no good - and hide under the cover of "neutrality". "honesty" blah blah


We talk about psy ops.. and we fall for it..

agree with SHiv.. what is the freakin point of being neutral... unless u are in charge of operations there and need to deal with the situation.. for the rest of us "China got kicked..."

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby shiv » 20 Aug 2017 09:59

Iyersan wrote:War is imminent. China is calibrating the escalation. We will kill them ... kill them all

India is aggravating them by allowing the publication of videos of them getting hammered.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Singha » 20 Aug 2017 10:14

Mort Walker wrote:
Gagan wrote:It is poker bluff, but they do have numbers.
What they don't have is air cover - very very scanty and very poor quality at that

What else do we need now?


If we had the LCA in significant numbers, that is 1000+ today, then the Chinese would never have said anything about Dok La and simply cleared out of the place.


did the possession of 500 F15E and 200 Reapers scare the Talibs or Iraqi baathist insurgents from attacking the US ?
does cheen brandishing its SRBM and GLCM scare india from engaging in these fights?

we have to be ready at all end of the spectrum from sticks and stones to N-weapons.

the enemy is the best teacher, because only he teaches you where you are weak

the nature of war has changed into constant hybrid low intensity war spread across fakenews, subversion of admin, subversion of media, cyber attack, sponsorship of anti national forces and social media warfare .... every (wo)man either a soldier or a victim now ... there is no fence left to sit on and no table to hide under.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Lilo » 20 Aug 2017 10:36

Image
China's 50 cent Army with Indian names playing the comment section of a News report on border scuffle.Bhutan is a target .

https://twitter.com/sarpamedha/status/8 ... 6121553920

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Gagan » 20 Aug 2017 11:15

China will kill the Bhutanese Royal Family and induce a communist revolution there, like in Nepal.
There are enough chinese sympathizers in india, our commies, who supported the "revolution" in Nepal for the chinese.
The leaders of the Communist revolution in Nepal, lived and traveled across India freely

Now if a certain political party comes to power in india, we will see Bhutan, Bangladesh being encroached upon by the chinese, and their sympathizers in power in Delhi will wink wink and let it happen. These very same people will give the ISI a free pass and a carte blanche on operations in india, they'll settle rohyngias in Jammu and Chennai too.

Nepal is now virtually a chinese colony, with their internet and telecommunications in chinese control. China's Tibet railway will reach Nepal in a few years. India has a no-visa border with Nepal - something to think about

The dangers are immense, thank god we have the right set of people in power !

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Gagan » 20 Aug 2017 11:33

India is paying the price of not starting economic reforms a decade or two earlier, when China did
India is paying a huge price for the lost decade under the UPA. They were criminal in their lack of governance and it seems that their single minded focus was on corruption - financial, moral and every other.

China is reaping the benefits of being the first mover when the experiment of globalization was taking place. But now all thw powers in the world are united and will keep harassing china's growth. The chinese should not have messed with Modi, he was their supporter and tried to be neutral when the US was making advances to bring India into the US camp against China

I don't know if there will be a border skirmish, but a few things will change in India
1. India will be firmly in the US camp, that neutrality with China will be gone
2. India will be as aggressive as can be with china, economically and militarily - the chinese are not going to like this. This Doklam standoff started with a very neutral GoI wich didn't want to offend the Chinese, we see the results.
India has kicked the chinese half out of Dollam, bulldozed their little road and thrown out all their equipment, and this little hand to hand skirmish on the 'chinese side' of the LAC.
This is what a peaceful and neutral india has done so far
Now If India gets aggressive, as one expects India to do so now, the Chinese will really hurt
3. India will most likely raise another mountain corps, increase the def budget to close to 3% to make it the worlds 3 rd largest defence budget, with mil tech flowing in from the US, Eurpoe, Israel, Russia and Japan. A very very potent military machine is being built here folks
4. China simply can't win a border skirmish with India. They will have to really really spend in tibet with their military deployments and infrastructure to threaten India - their focus is on the Navy, and SCS and bases internationally. India can even today, choke China's oil supply and european trade at sea. No wonder China wants the OBOR, and India wants no partnin that scam

China is very shortsighted, very eager to earn super-power status without doing real diplomacy and putting the right building blocks in place. They have made enemies whereever they have traded or done business with. If their economy slows down, just as India's economy picks up in this decade, their glory days might be over
Last edited by Gagan on 20 Aug 2017 11:39, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby ramana » 20 Aug 2017 11:38

Gagan, All your points will happen and this will reduce rise of China. Eleven also knows now.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby AdityaM » 20 Aug 2017 12:00

You may notice that soldier who got injured, (which as per many sources is Indian) has a unusual headgear sillouette, not like a helmet.
Similarly the white flag holders have the same headgear ( see from 20 seconds onwards)

This headgear seems to be no helmet but a woollen cap like in the image of ITBP below:

Image

This also explains that once the soldier was hit on the head, he collapsed
Very possible that they were not wearing minimal head protection, but only weather protection.


Also the kicker who emerged suddenly, can be seen throwing stones at 27 seconds in the same area where later kicks. He then goes under the rock canopy possibly to pick & sling his rifle, only to emerge later. Before he kicks, he also throws some stones on the same victim but misses at 43/44 seconds

The white flag bearers skip the danger zone & are rooted to safe zone

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby ricky_v » 20 Aug 2017 12:55

Birathers, recently found Karbers 2008 Sichuan earthquake and the underground wall of china study
https://fas.org/nuke/guide/china/Karber_UndergroundFacilities-Full_2011_reduced.pdf,
any link to the discussion during that time?

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby schinnas » 20 Aug 2017 13:28

CNN: Indian Media Mocks Xi Jinping after Xinghua racist video
http://edition.cnn.com/2017/08/18/asia/china-xinhua-india-video/index.html

Must watch video by India Today is here:
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/898250064518291456

When it comes to creativity and media, China is no match to India. Chinese commies should roll back all their pathetic attempts at psywar as they are cutting a sorry caricature of themselves. :rotfl:

The racist video that Chinese commies put out is a fantastic self goal. It brought Indian aam admi who didn't bother about Dolam plateau to start thinking about boycotting Chinese goods and generate viral counter attack videos and cartoons that is much better in terms of quality, not racist and reduces tarrest leader of middle kingdom to a funny cartoon character in front of Indian PM. And international media is taking note and gloating about it. Biggest psy ops win.... Khureel's cartoons also should go viral.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Narad » 20 Aug 2017 13:33

How will Chinese use of force in Doklam manifest?
In competitive conflict among nations, when faced with the threat of use of force by an adversary and if you set out to confront him and call his bluff, Plan A is generally based on the premise that the adversary will not actually use force due to political, economic and military compulsions. However, Plan B is also prepared to actually deal with the threat if it manifests itself. The handling of the two month long standoff in Doklam and recurring Chinese incursions elsewhere are still based on Plan A.
This, of course, is based on post 1962 War and 1967 Nathu La experience, notably the standoffs at Sumdrong Chu 1986-87, Depsang 2013 and Chumar 2014. Thus, on the ground, we see Indian and Chinese soldiers are physically confronting each other below Doka La with neither side using “force” except for the “jostling” in the initial stages. There is no let-up in Chinese jingoistic rhetoric and threats. Diplomacy does not seem to have made much headway. The mood in Delhi is “jung nahin hogi”. Except for the Indian Army moving for the annual summer “operational alert” there are no reports of any large scale mobilisation by either side. Is the current standoff going the way of the previous prolonged “peaceful” standoffs?
In this backdrop, let us look at Plan B on both sides. Before this, an obvious point must be made. Nations armed with nuclear weapons do not, and I dare say, cannot fight a full scale conventional war that causes major loss of territory, large scale casualties and destruction of economic infrastructure. The probability of even a limited war in multiple sectors along the LAC is relatively low. The probability of a limited war in the area of confrontation is much higher. The moot question is what form will it take?
The Indian Army’s Plan B is that all along the LAC and particularly in Sikkim, we hold dominating heights in high altitude terrain. Our defences are “hardened” and are backed by adequate fire power, including missiles carrying Precision Guided Munitions (PGM). We have adequate reserve for counter attack and we also have tactical counter offensive capability in each theatre. Along the LAC and in Tibet the IAF has an edge. It can carry out a strategic air campaign to target the PLA centres of gravity in Tibet, namely, command and control centres, military infrastructure and troop concentrations. Indian Navy is capable of strategic interdiction of sea lanes through the Indian Ocean. We also have the option of preempting the PLA with an operational level preemptive offensive, before it mobilises in Ladakh, Chumbi Valley and North Sikkim.
In a nutshell, we are looking to fight a low end third generation war to give the PLA a bloody nose. My take is that if the limited war whether in multiple sectors or in the Sikkim Sector, takes this form, we will stalemate the Chinese which is defeat for them.
The question that arises is why would China initiate a war where its defeat is ordained? Or does it have a more imaginative Plan B that teaches India a lesson? The PLA has adopted and adapted to the Revolution in Military Affairs (RMA) for the last two decades, particularly in the field of cyber warfare and PGM technology. It is now only second to the USA in high-end military technology. My assessment is that the Chinese will neutralise our strategy by not getting involved in “close infantry combat” over unfavourable terrain. If at all it chooses to use force, its strategy will be based on technological warfare with overwhelming use of PGM and cyber warfare. It will restrict its initial offensive to the Doklam and Sikkim Sector, but would be prepared for escalation to other sectors.
Such an attack will come in the winter, when conventional ground operations are severely restricted. PLA will carry out minimal mobilisation to cater to the unlikely tactical offensive by India in the winter. A massive PGM attack will be launched on our troops at Doklam and Doka La using cruise missiles and artillery after pulling out its own troops to safety.
Simultaneously, a massive cyber attack will be launched to neutralize our command and control systems and our fire power means. The strike will be with a declared limited aim of evicting us from Doklam. Depending upon our strategic and operational response, the PLA will escalate with similar attacks on more defensive positions in Sikkim and other sectors.
Are we prepared for such an attack? Are our defences sufficiently “hardened” and “tunnelled” to withstand a massive PGM attack? What is our progress in implementing the RMA? Do we have missile interception means? Are we trained and prepared for a winter offensive to make territorial gains? Do we have adequate counter attack capabilities using cyber warfare and PGMs?
I have no doubts that our Armed Forces have catered for such an eventuality. What measures, we can and should take will be discussed in the next column.

[
The writer is former Army commander, Northern and Central command


http://blogs.timesofindia.indiatimes.co ... -manifest/
Last edited by Narad on 20 Aug 2017 13:35, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby manjgu » 20 Aug 2017 13:34

today i saw posters in Amrisar Hall Gate/Gandhi gate asking people to boycott chinese goods !

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby schinnas » 20 Aug 2017 13:35

Regarding the tussle video, no need to worry whether Indians are in left or right or whether we come across as winning or not in that video. Chinese were larger in number than ITBP patrol and came prepared to attack and injure us without using firearms. However, their goal met a failure as they were driven back. If they had won the tussle, they would have stayed put. It is likely that Indian side got some reinforcements which forced the chinese to beat a retreat and re-try again after some more reinforcements from their side. But they got beaten back second time as well.

This is a good psyops for India - where PLA is throwing stones at a border patrol police force (ITBP) and is the initiator of the violence and is the aggressor. Since this video depicts PLA as the aggressor, it flies against their propoganda of Indian invasion and aggression. I believe that is the reason GoI has deemed it fit to release it for public consumption (assuming the release of the video was authorized).

Now that such a surprise is over, ITBP will be better prepared for such scuffles to give a bloody nose. And will also go with proper helmets for patrols. Without for the head injury, it is chinese soldier who got dragged and beaten up.

Also, one should note that when Russian and Chinese had similar border tensions, they each used to send wrestlers and martial artists to the border to physically handle the other side without escalating to firing. It is likely that Chinese brought some martial troops into their "patrol party" that was sneaking into Indian territory.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby sarkar » 20 Aug 2017 13:35

Gagan wrote:It is poker bluff, but they do have numbers.
What they don't have is air cover - very very scanty and very poor quality at that
What else do we need now?


IMHO when in war then we must firmly believe that:
1. They do have air cover and will somehow make their planes reach there.
(lesson from Kamikaze fighters in ww2)
2. There will be lots of them.
3. Quantity sometimes overrides quality.

Instead of us, getting surprised over seeing their planes over our head, we should be prepared and place web of anti aircraft guns there, and they should be surprised to get trapped in this maze. Mayday-ing few chinese birds over himalayas, would kill the spirit for their ground troops. Its better to not to engage directly with ground troops and just try to cut their supply lines or hit them from a distance. We should use AF from right the beginning of conflict. They have always tipped the favour in our side, in all wars we have fought, be it 1971 or Kargil. The time we didn't use them, we lost.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Hari Seldon » 20 Aug 2017 13:52

India is quietly preparing to end Chinese businesses' free run here (ET)

All quiet on the trade/economic front.

NEW DELHI: India is tightening the rules for businesses entering its power transmission sector and making stringent checks on both power and telecoms equipment for malware — moves that government and industry officials say aim to check China's advance into sensitive sectors.

Chinese firms such as Harbin Electric, Dongfang Electronics, Shanghai Electric and Sifang Automation either supply equipment or manage power distribution networks in 18 cities in India.

Local firms have long lobbied against Chinese involvement in the power sector, raising security concerns and saying they get no reciprocal access to Chinese markets.

With India and China locked in their most serious military face-off in three decades, the effort to restrict Chinese business has gathered more support from within the administration of Prime Minister Narendra Modi, worried about the possibility of a cyber attack.

The Indian government is considering a report prepared by the Central Electricity Authority (CEA) that sets new conditions for firms bidding for power transmission contracts, tipping the scales in favour of local companies.

According to an official involved in drafting the report, who asked not to be named, it says companies looking to invest in India should have been operating there for at least 10 years, have Indian citizens as top executives, and employees of the foreign firm should have lived in India for a certain period, the official said.

Those companies have to detail where they procure the raw materials for transmission systems, and will be barred from further operations in India if their materials contain malware.

Though the report makes no direct reference to China, the official said the recommendations are intended to deter China from making further headway in India, because of the security risks.

CEA Chairman R.K. Verma said the possibility of a crippling cyber attack on India's power systems was a key consideration while drafting the policy. "Cyber attacks are a challenge," he told Reuters.

A representative of a Chinese enterprise engaged in exporting electric power equipment in India told China's state-run Global Times that India's industry has long tried to block foreign competition under the garb of safety issues.

"Now, as Sino-Indian relations are getting intense, the old tune is on again. But in fact, it is unrealistic to completely ban China and India power investment cooperation. India will pay a huge price for this," the paper said.

Shanghai Electric, Harbin Electric, Dongfang Electronics and state-run China Southern Power Grid Co Ltd, all involved in India or trying to enter, did not immediately respond to emails seeking comment on the proposed Indian investment rules.

TELECOMS

The Indian government is moving simultaneously on the telecoms sector, demanding higher security standards in an area dominated by Chinese makers of equipment and smartphones.

In a letter reviewed by Reuters, the ministry of electronics and information technology has asked 21 smartphone makers, most of them Chinese, to provide details about the "safety and security practices, architecture frameworks, guidelines, standards, etc followed in your product/services in the country."

Chinese vendors such as Xiaomi, Lenovo, Oppo, Vivo and Gionee together account for over half of India's $10 billion smartphone market. The letter, dated Aug. 12, was also sent to Apple, Samsung Electronics and local maker Micromax, a ministry source said.

India has also privately raised objections to Chinese firm Shanghai Fosun Pharmaceutical Group's proposed $1.3 billion takeover of Indian drugmaker Gland Pharma, it emerged last month.

"There's a lot of resentment against China for meddling in our internal affairs, supporting Pakistan's cross-border terrorism, and, on the other hand, posing a huge loss to our trade and industry each year," said Satish Kumar, national president of the Swadesh Jagran Manch, a right-wing nationalist group with ties to Modi's ruling party.

The group has this year run a campaign asking Indians not to buy Chinese goods to protect local industry and reset a trade deficit of more than $51 billion.

CHEAP GOODS

India has used Chinese equipment for power generation and distribution as it looks to provide affordable electricity to an estimated 250 million people who are off the grid.

China Southern Power Grid, in association with CLP India Pvt Ltd, is among Chinese firms bidding for power transmission lines, Power Minister Piyush Goyal told Parliament this month.

Sunil Misra, director-general of the Indian Electrical and Electronics Manufacturers' Association, said the new rules for power transmission would help local industry and were in line with the limited access China gives to foreigners in its market.

Indian firms engaged in the power sector include Bharat Heavy Electricals Ltd, Crompton Greaves Consumer Electricals Ltd and Larsen & Toubro Ltd.

Security agencies have implemented a series of protocols and checks for Chinese equipment coming into the power sector, said another person involved in drafting the CEA report.

"This is recent and happening quietly," he said.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby schinnas » 20 Aug 2017 15:03

Narad wrote:How will Chinese use of force in Doklam manifest?
If at all it chooses to use force, its strategy will be based on technological warfare with overwhelming use of PGM and cyber warfare. It will restrict its initial offensive to the Doklam and Sikkim Sector, but would be prepared for escalation to other sectors.
Such an attack will come in the winter, when conventional ground operations are severely restricted. PLA will carry out minimal mobilisation to cater to the unlikely tactical offensive by India in the winter. A massive PGM attack will be launched on our troops at Doklam and Doka La using cruise missiles and artillery after pulling out its own troops to safety.
Simultaneously, a massive cyber attack will be launched to neutralize our command and control systems and our fire power means. The strike will be with a declared limited aim of evicting us from Doklam. Depending upon our strategic and operational response, the PLA will escalate with similar attacks on more defensive positions in Sikkim and other sectors.

[
The writer is former Army commander, Northern and Central command


http://blogs.timesofindia.indiatimes.co ... -manifest/


This possible response by Chinese was anticipated early on in BRF. Even yours truly had opined:

schinnas wrote:...
PLA knowing their tactical limitations with India occupying higher ground, are likely to resort to long range, sustained rocket fire (and artillery if they have place to mount guns at vantage points) on Dolam plateau with the intention of removing Indian presence and not allowing Indians to re-take the territory. Post September, they expect that winter will anyway prevent India from moving in and they can declare victory and occupy it again in early Spring...


viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6863&p=2194971

However, I got the timing wrong. I expected them to initiate hostilities just before onset of winter thereby curtailing any offensive infantry operation by us and declare victory. However with BRICS summit in September and Udth Abhyas in late September, they may launch it in October or November as well just before or during commie summit. The timing suggested by the author in the article above makes more sense. Hope we have operationalized at least few batteries of 450 km extended range Brahmos by then. The chinese are unlikely to venture too much into infrantry warfare except in some areas where they may have advantages of terrain and enough stockpiling of supplies and ammunition to withstand any disruption to logistics.

Developments in SCS and Korean peninsula and any trade war by Trump could make Cheenis put the plan in cold storage.

Additionally, I feel it is important to launch a media blitz against Chinese occupation of even part of Dolam plateau in international media.

It is very important for India to work closely with Indian IT industry, friends in Israel and US to conduct penetration tests on Indian digital assets to protect against any large scale cyber warfare. Most of our public utilities arent fully computerized which reduces any potential impact of cyber attack. Without saying, strategic systems and critical public infra needs to be secured by vetted Indian professionals.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby schinnas » 20 Aug 2017 15:12

@rajfortyseven
#China #PLA pelts stones at #India Army Video geolocated 33 43 12N 78 45 49E
PLA regularly violates engagement procedures stipulated earlier

https://twitter.com/rajfortyseven/statu ... 1557891072

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby pankajs » 20 Aug 2017 15:25

This is not a new scenario and has been posted by multiple folks multiple times ....

But we come back to this point again and again. Lets us *assume* they are able to pound Dokala plateau and Doka la and kill all IA personal by using arty, PGM, Missile, Fighter bombers and what not ...

What then? Their objective is to build infra and consolidate their hold on Doklam. What prevents IA from re-occupying the positions immediately the next day, next week, next month, in the winter or just as spring arrives? So we are back to square one. IA is still sitting pretty on Dokalam plateau and their road construction project is still blocked. There is still a stalemate. They can't simply bomb Dokalam and Doka La and claim victory. Rather they can claim victory but the fact on the ground will still not change.

Why this assumption that IA will sit on its haunches? BTW, our logistics chain is much shorter and our troop deployment in the general area is multiple times theirs. So whether they try that kind of stunt in August or September or October or November or winter or spring how will they succeed unless IA is held back by GOI?
Last edited by pankajs on 20 Aug 2017 15:28, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby schinnas » 20 Aug 2017 15:26

Now Botswana shows middle finger to Chinese reptiles by standing firm behind its invitation to H.H. Dalai Lama despite reptile making threats public and private.

President Ian Khama blasts China: We are not your colony
http://www.botswanaguardian.co.bw/news/item/2761-khama-blasts-china.html

schinnas
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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby schinnas » 20 Aug 2017 15:40

Pankajs,
The point is China can present any bombardment of Dolam to their populace as a face saver before winter is over as having evicted Indians. And if Chinese also withdraw from the area citing winter, why would India re-occupy the place as it is Bhutanese territory?

Thats why I have been suggesting for long in this forum that for a lasting win for India in this conflict, we should own Dolam plateau by exchanging some other equivalent area to Bhutan.

pankajs
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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby pankajs » 20 Aug 2017 15:46

Assumption: Chinese have withdrawn to their side of the plateau before launching the blitz on the IA troops on the plateau. IA is destroyed on Dokalam [Bhutanese territory] and Doka La [Indian territory] just 100-200 meters from the standoff location.

Scenario 1: The Chinese keep to their side of the plateau but they may send in a patrol once in a while. Well that's what the GOI has been insisting. India is back at Doka La [Indian territory] keeping a vigil. India wins.

Scenario 2: IA is back at Doka La [Indian territory]. The road project that the Chinese were pushing and the stand off location is 100-200 meters from Doka La IA post. From their vantage, about 500 feets/meters higher that the plateau, they can spot the Chinese party at least a mile further and can rush down the slope like they did the last time. Back to square one. Stalemate. India wins again.

They can present whatever they want back home and to the world but remember the last time when they spun a story about India downsizing their position on the plateau? Did not work because India contradicted it!

BTW, the more Chinese travel abroad, invest abroad and study abroad these are folks who will carry the actual picture back to their native land and forums in anger that the CCP is not doing enough to *evict* the Indians from Dokalam.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Javee » 20 Aug 2017 16:08

Ha ha, the best finger to show the lizzies is the middle finger..

“We are not your colony,” was the money quote of Khama’s account of his diplomatic standoff with China in recent weeks.


https://qz.com/1057123/dalai-lama-cance ... -to-china/

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby sarkar » 20 Aug 2017 16:31

Winter will not solve problem for us. I believe IA will stay put in winter as well.
Chinese will try every opportunity to grab it back. They think it's their homeland. That's the power of propaganda. Red party is trying to fill anger and anguish among their citizen with false propaganda filled with lies and cooked facts, so that when the time comes, they will blindly follow their commands to die. Without a decisive war now, it may become another Siachen for us. In that case the land is as good as gone for Bhutan as well, unless they want to replace IA there.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby UlanBatori » 20 Aug 2017 17:00

So, the Authoritative Summary of the Pangong Tso Incident from UBC News and Analysis is in.

1. Chinese came sneaking in (as they always do) near an ITBP camp in the dawn hours, carrying iron rods to launch surprise attack on sleeping unarmed policemen who were in their white pajamas.

2. As usual, Chinese morons were late, and it was already daybreak, and they were neatly shilhouetted against the lake by the rising sun. ITBP people were awake and alert. They confronted the Chinese and asked them politely, with a banner in Mandarin saying:
Rhasa thataway, applox. 350 km.
Because they thought the chinese were lost as usual. This was in Mandarin but the banner was accidentally held upside down so that it was mistakenly read:
All u hele 2 c ul mothels hu allived rast night?


3. Being surprised, and frustrated that their sneak attack had totally failed, the chinese brutally attacked the leader of the Indian patrol with an iron rod. The attacker was promptly deflected by other ITBP personnel, and thrashed soundly. He was dragged away screaming by his comrades, his screams can be heard on the video.

4. Other Chinese started throwing stones in frustration. Indians showed their cricket skills and scored numerous direct hits on the Chinese who were standing nicely clumped on the sandbank. Chinese started running helter-skelter in sheer panic. Some tried to rescue their bawling comrades who were getting punched and caned on their butts by the ITBP personnel.

5. Finding that their sneak attack had totally failed, the cowardly chinese ran away towards the LAC and were last seen walking towards Beijing as originally advised.

6. The last part of the video, which was made available to UBCN, shows the Chinese commander on his knees begging the Indians to stop beating them, and then for some food and water to sustain them on the long walk back across the LAC to Lhasa.

7. Usually reliable reports from local residents and tourists who spoke to UBCN on condition of anonymity, state that 10 of the Chinese are in India, having begged for asylum. This includes the company commander since his sneak attack totally failed. He prefers to spend next 20 years shoveling **** in Sikkim rather than breaking rocks in the Gobi desert.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby ldev » 20 Aug 2017 17:07

schinnas wrote:@rajfortyseven
#China #PLA pelts stones at #India Army Video geolocated 33 43 12N 78 45 49E
PLA regularly violates engagement procedures stipulated earlier

https://twitter.com/rajfortyseven/statu ... 1557891072


Image

Manish_Sharma
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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Manish_Sharma » 20 Aug 2017 18:00

Is this something that can give them some advantages during the war?

rkhanna wrote:With New Satellite, China Leads the World in Quantum Entanglement


https://www.inverse.com/article/34094-q ... ion-micius

China has sent an "unbreakable" code from a satellite to the Earth, marking the first time space-to-ground quantum key distribution technology has been realized, state media said on Thursday.

China launched the world's first quantum satellite last August, to help establish "hack proof" communications, a development the Pentagon has called a "notable advance".

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby shiv » 20 Aug 2017 18:05

UlanBatori wrote:So, the Authoritative Summary of the Pangong Tso Incident from UBC News and Analysis is in.

Aha! One corerect analysis in the midst of all the fake and wrong analyses.
Sorry folks - look again. Here is the definitive analysis. Both stoned and kicked were Cheeni bilathels
Yenjaay maadi..

https://youtu.be/LjGmly7XMCk

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Bishwa » 20 Aug 2017 18:12

rajfortyfive has reached the same conclusions as us - focus on finger 4 as the area of video and focus on finger 6 as the area of Chinese force concentration (surface search radar, boats etc).

This is good.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Gyan » 20 Aug 2017 18:38

It would mean that Guys with Light clothes are Chinese and Guys holding Red Banner saying Teri Ma ki, are Indians.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby samirdiw » 20 Aug 2017 18:40

sarkar wrote:
Gagan wrote:Instead of us, getting surprised over seeing their planes over our head, we should be prepared and place web of anti aircraft guns there, and they should be surprised to get trapped in this maze. Mayday-ing few chinese birds over himalayas, would kill the spirit for their ground troops. Its better to not to engage directly with ground troops and just try to cut their supply lines or hit them from a distance. We should use AF from right the beginning of conflict. They have always tipped the favour in our side, in all wars we have fought, be it 1971 or Kargil. The time we didn't use them, we lost.


Agree on the approach mentioned here - both the anti aircraft defenses and targeting their logistics at the earliest itself. Just targeting the support systems close to the border will not be sufficient as they can continue getting resupplied.

So in order of priority targets could look like
1. Radars
2. Large supply bases further back (e.g. The one in Uyghur/Xijiang area)
3. Supply bridges
4. Ammo dumps and Airbases close by
5. Units

If we could target the aircraft industries/bases in Chengdu that would also help. That will then escalate the war to another level but should not be ruled out if the damages to Chinese defenses will be more than corresponding attacks on our aircraft industry.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby ldev » 20 Aug 2017 18:50


manjgu
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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby manjgu » 20 Aug 2017 18:50

sorry..but most respectfully disagree. If u r on north shore of pangong ( opp to maan merak villages which are on the other shore) ..looking towards the lake ( as the vid is doing)....the right side in the vid is india and left side is china.. the light colored clothes are indians... and thats why they continue to hold the banner like good children. the moment the brawl started i would have wanted to hurl a barrage of stones... with ur logic indians are backing off towards sirijap...

ldev
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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby ldev » 20 Aug 2017 18:53

An older article from mid 2016 on the state of Indian defences in eastern Ladakh by Sujan Dutta of the Telegraph.

Untold beef-up on frontier
- How India has been redeploying troops in Ladakh


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