Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Karthik S » 28 Aug 2017 14:14

Arjun wrote:"Minutes after India's statement, the Chinese foreign ministry said, while India was withdrawing its troops, they will continue to patrol in the Doklam area"

Hmm...


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Tenzing Lamsang Retweeted The Quint
Chinese soldiers came patrolling in area from before. No problems here. Standoff triggered by attempted road construction vs objection

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby TKiran » 28 Aug 2017 14:15

sum wrote:
manjgu wrote:arun..a) i dont think Indian are so naive under Doval/Modi to unilaterally disengage... please credit them with some sense. The opposition also would make mincemeat of govt if its a unilateral disengagement. b) i dont think its abt BRICS..its about the hard reality of the battle field and their own weaknesses.

^ +1

I think Modi/Doval were naieve as they could not hold on.... But you want us to believe otherwise, what a naievety, we know that we would not be able to do the same again after a week, once the Han start the same thing again. You are being naieve here.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Arjun » 28 Aug 2017 14:20

schinnas wrote:From the MEA statement and that of China, it is clear that:
1. Both sides will withdraw mutually.
2. China will be allowed to send patrols as this is disputed territory and so would be Bhutan.
3. China will not resume road building (this is unstated but understood by the absence of any statement about China building roads).

This is a good formula, except that the stoppage of road building cannot remain unstated. What if they start the road building again ?....only if the agreement is publicized at this point would the public understand clearly who the transgressor is the next time this happens.

Ideally, Bhutan should issue a press release stating that they would also continue patrols in the area and that road construction by the Chinese would be an infringement of the status quo

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby ldev » 28 Aug 2017 14:29

From Indian MEA:

The Indian ministry said the two sides had agreed to defuse the crisis following diplomatic talks.

“In recent weeks, India and China have maintained diplomatic communication in respect of the incident at Doklam,” the ministry said in a statement.

“On this basis, expeditious disengagement of border personnel at the face-off site at Doklam has been agreed to and is on-going,” it said in a statement.


and from Chinese MEA:

China said Indian troops had withdrawn from the remote area in the eastern Himalayas. Chinese foreign ministry spokeswoman Hua Chunying said Chinese troops would continue to patrol the Doklam region.

“China will continue to exercise sovereignty rights to protect territorial sovereignty in accordance with the rules of the historical boundary,” she said.


“China hopes India respects the historical boundary and works with China to protect peace along the border on the basis of mutual respect of each other’s sovereignty,” Hua added.


from Reuters

What is left unsaid by both sides is what happens to the Chinese road building. Presumably that has stopped.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Rajeev » 28 Aug 2017 14:32

I haven’t seen any official statement from Chinese govt or foreign ministry . Global Times is as always gloating that it’s a “unilateral” withdrawal from India , quoting a statement from Chinese foreign ministry spokesperson Hua Chunying …

http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1063463.shtml

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby TKiran » 28 Aug 2017 14:33

Arjun wrote:This is a good formula, except that the stoppage of road building cannot remain unstated. What if they start the road building again ?....only if the agreement is publicized at this point would the public understand clearly who the transgressor is the next time this happens.

Ideally, Bhutan should issue a press release stating that they would also continue patrols in the area and that road construction by the Chinese would be an infringement of the status quo

Bhutan should state something that that India didn't have b@lls to state. I can understand Modi bhakti, but .... Are you sure of what you want Bhutan should do?

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby chola » 28 Aug 2017 14:36

By hook or crook, GOI must make sure there is no effort to establish ties with Cheen from Bhutan. There are those trying to use this crisis as an excuse.
Last edited by chola on 28 Aug 2017 14:37, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Arjun » 28 Aug 2017 14:37

TKiran wrote:Bhutan should state something that that India didn't have b@lls to state. I can understand Modi bhakti, but .... Are you sure of what you want Bhutan should do?

Its a matter of locus standi...this dispute is technically between Bhutan and China and India cannot issue statement on Bhutan's behalf.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby g.sarkar » 28 Aug 2017 14:41

Did India provide a fig leaf to hide Eleven's peanut sized organ? Who blinked first?
http://www.sify.com/news/india-and-chin ... adaah.html
India and China agree to disengage in Doklam
Source : SIFY Last Updated: Mon, Aug 28, 2017 14:19 hrs
New Delhi: Two months after the Doklam standoff, both India and China have finally decided to withdraw troops from the tri-junction. In a statement, the Ministry of External Affairs said on Monday that in recent weeks India and China have maintained diplomatic communications on Doklam. "In recent weeks, India and China have maintained diplomatic communication in respect of the incident at Doklam. During these communications, we were able to express our views and convey our concerns and interests," the statement said. "On this basis, expeditious disengagement of border personnel at the face-off site at Doklam has been agreed to and is on-going," the MEA statement further said.
....

India-China Doklam border standoff set to end after deal on withdrawing troops
A press release issued by the Ministry of External Affairs today said the "expeditious disengagement of border personnel at the face-off site at Doklam has been agreed to and is on-going".
he 70-day bitter standoff between India and China over Doklam peninsula has ended with both countries agreeing to withdraw troops from the border region.
A press release issued by the Ministry of External Affairs today said the "expeditious disengagement of border personnel at the face-off site at Doklam has been agreed to and is on-going".
"In recent weeks, India and China have maintained diplomatic communication in respect of the incident at Doklam. During these communications, we were able to express our views and convey our concerns and interests," the statement says.
The resolution of the standoff also comes ahead of Prime Minister Narendra Modi's likely participation in the BRICS meeting next month. There is no official confirmation on the trip yet.
.....

Gautam
Last edited by g.sarkar on 28 Aug 2017 14:58, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby TKiran » 28 Aug 2017 14:42

Del
Last edited by TKiran on 29 Aug 2017 08:02, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby chola » 28 Aug 2017 14:43

Of course.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/india-withdraws-troops-from-disputed-himalayan-region-defusing-tension-with-china/2017/08/28/b92fddb6-8bc7-11e7-a2b0-e68cbf0b1f19_story.html

India withdraws troops from disputed Himalayan region, defusing tension with China

By Simon Denyer and Annie Gowen

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby chola » 28 Aug 2017 14:49

TKiran wrote:
chola wrote:By hook or crook, GOI must make sure there is no effort to establish ties with Cheen from Bhutan. There are those trying to use this crisis as an excuse.

Sorry to give a very distasteful analogy, but if one is not able to hold on and prematurely ej@culate, that guy is hoping that his wife should not get full fu(k from a mother fuc(ker who is always looking at his wife with predatory eyes.


Well, if you plug her yoni with a karela, the other guy might not be able to enter.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby ldev » 28 Aug 2017 14:50

The border at this location is disputed between China and Bhutan. China used to send it's border guards to patrol the area. It was only when China decided to alter that status quo by building/extending the road southwards that India sent it's troops in. If China has stopped the road building and pulled it's equipment back India will agree to revert to the status quo that prevailed. And that is what appears to have happened. Just as Indian and Chinese troops patrol in disputed areas along their border, Chinese and Bhutanese troops will patrol their disputed border. That is what the Chinese foreign ministry has reiterated in it's statement.

This confrontation is a lesson to China not to take Indian security concerns for granted and that it cannot unilaterally bulldoze it's way to altering the status quo as it has done in the South China Sea.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Philip » 28 Aug 2017 14:51

Mutual disengagement.China wanted to save the BRICS summit,where a summit without Mr.Modi would be viewed as a huge snub by India,with the erst of the world watching. XI Gins clearly wanted the summit to be the highlight which would turn the spotlight onto him and secure his "Chairman" ambitions cometh the party congress later in the year.A snub by India at such a prestigious summit where China was the host would've seen its would-be emperor with feet of clay. He also could not risk India announcing any trade penalties against China on the eve of the summit.The anti-China campaign gathering steam with the pressure from the parivar ,would go into higher gear as the days increased without a solution in sight.

China will now falsely boast that India withdrew first and its forces aren't going anywhere,but they certainly are stopping work otherwise it will be a dangerous betrayal and one which India would take extremely seriously and take extreme steps against China esp. diplomatically and economically.

Guys,Diwali is around the corner.Please do not buy any Chin goods ,fireworks at all,neither must traders,etc,NOT order stuff from China for the Diwali shoppers. Let's see what happens at and after the summit.Whatever happens,the dragon showed us its claws and long-term intentions. We have no excuse now from taking up urgent measures ,long overdue,to plug the gaps in our security and strat. deterrent.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby yensoy » 28 Aug 2017 14:53

Philip wrote:China will now falsely boast that India withdrew first and its forces aren't going anywhere,but they certainly are stopping work otherwise it will be a dangerous betrayal and one which India would take extremely seriously and take extreme steps against China esp. diplomatically and economically.


Will boast? The ******** are already doing it. http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1063463.shtml We should have never agreed to a withdrawal without proper agreement about how it would be presented.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby amohan2001 » 28 Aug 2017 14:55

This is a tight slap on China's face because they can not continue road building on disputed land.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Jits » 28 Aug 2017 14:56

China will continue to exercise its sovereignty and uphold its territorial integrity in accordance with historical conventions,


China still does not considers it as disputed territory and continue to believe it as it's own.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby amohan2001 » 28 Aug 2017 14:58

yensoy wrote:
Philip wrote:China will now falsely boast that India withdrew first and its forces aren't going anywhere,but they certainly are stopping work otherwise it will be a dangerous betrayal and one which India would take extremely seriously and take extreme steps against China esp. diplomatically and economically.


Will boast? The ******** are already doing it. http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1063463.shtml We should have never agreed to a withdrawal without proper agreement about how it would be presented.


Let them boast. Indian can again cross the border, if they see any sign of road building activity. Where is the need for agreement?

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Dipanker » 28 Aug 2017 14:59


“China will continue to exercise sovereignty rights to protect territorial sovereignty in accordance with the rules of the historical boundary,” she said.


Is China claiming the territory and India has conceded? If so, this is a abject surrender.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby yensoy » 28 Aug 2017 15:00

I really hope our boys mined the living daylights out of the area while the Chinese were busy baiting their masters http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/845614/China-military-masturbation-fitness-test-peoples-liberation-army-xi-jinping.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby arun » 28 Aug 2017 15:09

arun wrote:Vague statement by our Ministry of External Affairs.

What is the meaning of “expeditious disengagement of border personnel at the face-off site in Doklam has been agreed-to and is ongoing”?

Does it mean a unilateral disengagement of Indian border personnel by withdrawing from the standoff site as the Peoples Republic of China (PRC) has been demanding?

Or does it mean a simultaneous disengagement of Indian and PRC border personnel by withdrawls on the part of both sides as India has been demanding?

Should we Indian citizens be praising the Narendra Modi led BJP controlled NDA Government for standing firm to PRC bullying or cringinging in mortification for the Governments pusillanimity?

I hope the vagueness of our MEA’s statement is not a cover up for pusillanimity Narendra Modi led BJP controlled NDA Government . Looking forward to the political parties sitting in opposition to do the necessary to rule out Governmental pussilanimity.




If the intent of our Narendra Modi Led BJP dominated NDA Government was not to deliberately befool the Indian Public by suggesting victory when pusillanimity was the order of the day, then the vague MEA statement has helped the PRC claim victory:

Doklam Standoff Has Ended, Says India, But China Ambiguous On Troop Withdrawal


India, China Say Sikkim Standoff Ends, China Says Its Troops Will Stay

Looking forward to the Opposition Political Parties getting to the bottom of this affair.
Last edited by arun on 28 Aug 2017 15:10, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby TKiran » 28 Aug 2017 15:10

I will tell you a story in Ramayana,

Hanuman tells Sita that he can lift her across the straits to Rama, but Sita refused the offer saying that, she knows that Rama is more powerful than Ravana, that was proved to the world world during her Swayamvaram when Ravana could not lift Shiva Dhanussu, now Sita wanted Rama to maul Ravana, that was what she wanted to see.

Another example from Mahabharata, when Draupadi was insulted by Dussasana, she takes oath in the public that she will knot her hair till Bheema brings the "lahoo Jigar ka" of Dussasana and apply it to her hair like hair-oil.

We are born in that great Land where the wife feels secure with her husband. Not pusillanimous husbands.

My post was a reflection of my frustration with our pusillanimous leaders, but your response was naieve at best, ignorance at least.
Last edited by TKiran on 28 Aug 2017 15:11, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby amohan2001 » 28 Aug 2017 15:10

I think the Victory is:
1) India was able to stop road building by China in the territory claimed by China as its own territory.
2) For 2 Months Indian troops were stationed in "Chinese" territory.
3) For 2 Months China was shooting only through globaltimes.

Compare this to India's response to Kargil misadventure by Pakis.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby nam » 28 Aug 2017 15:11

We asked for getting back to status quo and we got the status quo. Chinis try to extend the road, our troops will block them again, NOT just in Dolam. We now know the volume of hot air in pla's mountain.

Regarding stopping road confirmation, why should it be the job of MEA? Let some reporter ask the Chinese MoF. They are the loud mouth.

The message has been send and heard. Now continue to boycott Chinese goods and prepare when the bullets will start flying in other rounds.

China, thanks for waking up our morons. Now we will be millitarily competing with you, not that silly pauper rent boy to the west.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby ricky_v » 28 Aug 2017 15:11

Hopefully, the agreement is taken in the right spirit by our side with the immediate renewal of forward policy deployment after having gauged the reaction time and reporting chain for the current crisis. The time for f*ckery is nigh and the outlier regions of Yunnan, ningxia ityadi should start experiencing breakdown in civil administration. The Chinese should not get away with settling roots in claimed indian region and estranged indian region. As pakis are odíng on peacefulism after creating their entire country on this single basis, so should the hans feel down the line. OTOH, big deal if the wall lizards think that they have beaten us, it will be another thing that makes their nights wetter.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby chola » 28 Aug 2017 15:12

Doka La is nothing but an opportunity to stop chini trends and chini initiatives.

Now, OBOR will go on, CPEC will go on, Gwadar will go on, Djibouti will go on, Iran, Greece, too many others to name will go on.

Ten fvcking years from now we'll be an island in a sea of chini infrastructure and money. Reptilian carriers, destroyers, frigates and subs will be off our coasts "protecting" their trade traffic.

All this will come pass when a fvcking non-warrior state like Cheen dared us to kick their arses and as good SDREs we punted. Fvck it. Mind in a very dark place right now.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Arjun » 28 Aug 2017 15:16

All in all, if the MEA doesn't show some proof of what we have gained through the disengagement - this government will be in big time trouble and deservedly so.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby yensoy » 28 Aug 2017 15:19

Two boxers go into the ring. The lights go out just when the bout begins. Audience can hear punches being thrown but can't see sh!t.

When the timer beeps, one boxer walks out confidently saying "we had a bout but it was a draw".

The other boxer limps out with a bloody nose and broken teeth and says "I won".

You decide what happened.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby pankajs » 28 Aug 2017 15:21

Even the Chinese statement does not go beyond patrolling but that was part of the status before the standoff. If that is all they get then it is as per the initial proposal of GOI.

China claims 100virginity. But that too is part of the status quo. So what is new?

http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/india-ch ... am-1742859
India said soldiers of both countries were withdrawing their troops. But China seemed to suggest only Indians were withdrawing. The Chinese foreign ministry said it was "pleased" that India had agreed to withdraw soldiers from the area and asserted that Chinese troops will continue patrolling Doklam plateau, which they claim as their own.

China will "continue its sovereignty rights", the Chinese foreign ministry was quoted by Reuters as saying.

As far as I am concerned people are free to believe the Chinese believe what THEY think the Chinese said/meant.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby schinnas » 28 Aug 2017 15:36

TKiran wrote:I think Modi/Doval were naieve as they could not hold on.... But you want us to believe otherwise, what a naievety, we know that we would not be able to do the same again after a week, once the Han start the same thing again. You are being naieve here.


Both parties patrolling disputed territory is par for the course. Both parties, Chinese and Bhutanese patrolling without making any permanent construction on disputed territory is OK under certain conditions.

What has happened is that China and India have both went back to pre June 2017 status quo in the region.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby nam » 28 Aug 2017 15:37

Arjun wrote:All in all, if the MEA doesn't show some proof of what we have gained through the disengagement - this government will be in big time trouble and deservedly so.


There is Google earth. We will know if MEA lied

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby JE Menon » 28 Aug 2017 15:40

>>What has happened is that China and India have both went back to pre June 2017 status quo in the region.

This is the only thing we need clarity on.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby arun » 28 Aug 2017 15:40

TKiran wrote:My post was a reflection of my frustration with our pusillanimous leaders, but your response was naieve at best, ignorance at least.



As you made that comment immediately below a post of mine and used the word pusillanimous which was also used in that post of mine, I now post to inform you that post, naïve or not, ignorant or not, is not a response to anything you have said in a post.

:-? So are you referring to my post or some other :?:

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby RajeshA » 28 Aug 2017 15:41

Doklam Standoff represents the first true push back of New China on the international stage! Chinese have had to blink and India wins this stare-down.

The main Indian complaint was about Chinese road-building in Doklam. If the Chinese have assured to desist from doing so in the immediate future, then Indians don't need to be deployed there.

That is the whole crux of the development. Chinese may spin it however way they want and a soft Indian press release may in fact have been a part of the face-saving deal for deescalation.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Patni » 28 Aug 2017 15:43

Official MEA Press Note:

Press Statement on Doklam disengagement understanding


August 28, 2017

In recent weeks, India and China have maintained diplomatic communication in respect of the incident at Doklam. During these communications, we were able to express our views and convey our concerns and interests.
On this basis, expeditious disengagement of border personnel at the face-off site at Doklam has been agreed to and is on-going.

New Delhi
August 28, 2017


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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Narad » 28 Aug 2017 15:47

Patni wrote:Official MEA Press Note:

Press Statement on Doklam disengagement understanding


August 28, 2017

In recent weeks, India and China have maintained diplomatic communication in respect of the incident at Doklam. During these communications, we were able to express our views and convey our concerns and interests.
On this basis, expeditious disengagement of border personnel at the face-off site at Doklam has been agreed to and is on-going.

New Delhi
August 28, 2017



Is there any more info coming out? This press release we have already memorized it.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Arjun » 28 Aug 2017 15:48

"During these communications, we were able to express our views and convey our concerns and interests"

This press release is so idiotic I can't believe it... Who the f*** cares what you were able to express and convey ??? What matters is what the other side has agreed to !

Is the standard of the MEA so low that they think it is a major win for being able to simply express their concerns ?
Last edited by Arjun on 28 Aug 2017 15:51, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Singha » 28 Aug 2017 15:50

typical St stephens type of language.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby pankajs » 28 Aug 2017 15:50

BTW, what was the Chinese position .....

NO TALKS till India withdraws unilateral. What happened to that hanji? Our memories tend to play tricks on us. This is one problem.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby arun » 28 Aug 2017 15:51

schinnas wrote:What has happened is that China and India have both went back to pre June 2017 status quo in the region.

[/quote]

There is no explicit Official Statement from both side explicitly stating that both sides have pulled troops back to the June 2017 status qua and also that the PRC has stopped the road building that triggered the crisis.

When I see a vague statement such as the one put out by our MEA I become circumspect about claiming victory for my side :wink:
Last edited by arun on 28 Aug 2017 16:04, edited 1 time in total.


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