Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

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SwamyG
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Re: Neutering & defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby SwamyG » 01 Sep 2017 02:47

Two Chinese movies were released in 2017 that were set in India (or has Indian connection)
1. Kung Fu Yoga (2017)
2. Buddies in India (2017)

Hmmmm....interesting onlee.

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Re: Neutering & defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby SwamyG » 01 Sep 2017 02:59

Anup, does the Sanskrit variations of Cina come from the Indian references to Qin dynasty?

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Re: Neutering & defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby anupmisra » 01 Sep 2017 03:21

SwamyG wrote:Anup, does the Sanskrit variations of Cina come from the Indian references to Qin dynasty?


SG, I am not versed in Sanskrit but from the link above here is what I could glean:

According to French art historian, Rene Grousset, the name China comes from "an ancient" Sanskrit name for the regions to the east, and not, as often supposed, from the name of the state of Ch'in," the first dynasty established by Shih Huang Ti in 221 B.C. The Sanskrit name Cina for China could have been derived from the small state of that name in Chan-si in the northwest of China, which flourished in the fourth century B.C. Scholars have pointed out that the Chinese word for lion, shih, used long before the Chin dynasty, was derived from the Sanskrit word, simha, and that the Greek word for China, Tzinista, used by some later writers, appears to be derivative of the Sanskrit Chinasthana.


If one googles Chan-si, nothing comes up. Shaanxi (or Shānxī) is the closest to that word. Shanxi is a province in central chinasthana but is offically part of its NW region.It is historical and considered to be the cradle of Chinasthani civilization. Maybe there is a connection. Another clue lies in the fact that under the Han dynasty, the Northern Silk Road was expanded to advance exploration and military purposes to the west. This Northern Silk Road is the northernmost of the Silk Roads and is about 2,600 kilometres (1,600 mi) in length. It connected the ancient Chinese capital of Xi'an to ....ancient Parthia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaanxi

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Re: Neutering & defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby anupmisra » 01 Sep 2017 03:41

China's Hindu temples: A forgotten history


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Re: Neutering & defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Suraj » 01 Sep 2017 03:45

The Bhutanese article is excellent and describes their position and the costs they've borne . Its important that GoI listen and offer them greater security from what will be further vindictive actions by China against Bhutan .

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Re: Neutering & defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby DavidD » 01 Sep 2017 04:03

Suraj wrote:The Bhutanese article is excellent and describes their position and the costs they've borne . Its important that GoI listen and offer them greater security from what will be further vindictive actions by China against Bhutan .


India should do that, because judging by that article Bhutan is tired of coming to India's aide with little return favor and is close to giving away an area that's "neither strategically important nor does it hold any economic value" in exchange for Chinese goodwill. Failure to do so would likely mean China's 4D chess strategy in pulling Bhutan away coming to fruition :twisted:

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Re: Neutering & defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby SwamyG » 01 Sep 2017 04:03

Anup, thanks. If it was a small state then I wonder why ancient Indians would even think about such a place....when there was so much more happening in ancient Indian lands & vicinity.

Anyway, it does not matter I was just mildly curious.

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Re: Neutering & defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby eklavya » 01 Sep 2017 04:38

DavidD wrote:
Suraj wrote:The Bhutanese article is excellent and describes their position and the costs they've borne . Its important that GoI listen and offer them greater security from what will be further vindictive actions by China against Bhutan .


India should do that, because judging by that article Bhutan is tired of coming to India's aide with little return favor and is close to giving away an area that's "neither strategically important nor does it hold any economic value" in exchange for Chinese goodwill. Failure to do so would likely mean China's 4D chess strategy in pulling Bhutan away coming to fruition :twisted:


China is an unreliable thief, who tomorrow will change his demand. No sane person is stupid enough (except for the fool who wrote that article) to fall for China's idiotic bullying strategy. If India was following Chinese "wisdom" on this matter, it would demand Thimphu and Doklam, and settle for Doklam in return for "goodwill". Friends don't threaten each other. India asks Bhutan for nothing, and true goodwill and friendship is the basis of the Bhutan-India relationship.

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Re: Neutering & defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Guddu » 01 Sep 2017 04:43

DavidD wrote:
Suraj wrote:The Bhutanese article is excellent and describes their position and the costs they've borne . Its important that GoI listen and offer them greater security from what will be further vindictive actions by China against Bhutan .


India should do that, because judging by that article Bhutan is tired of coming to India's aide with little return favor and is close to giving away an area that's "neither strategically important nor does it hold any economic value" in exchange for Chinese goodwill. Failure to do so would likely mean China's 4D chess strategy in pulling Bhutan away coming to fruition :twisted:


But China would not be able to take it away from India, if they cannot take it away from Bhutan ! Yes we loved the 4D strategy, time to make it 5D, it will surely impress the Philipines and Vietnam.

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Re: Neutering & defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby shyamal » 01 Sep 2017 04:44

+1
Bhutan has seen the fate of Tibet - complete destruction.
They have wisely resisted the bribes of CN.
India cannot(and does not attempt to) match CN in economic largese but atleast it will not gobble up their country, tear up their homes and enslave their children.

BTW - now it appears that CN tried to bribe India also - and failed there too :P

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Re: Neutering & defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby eklavya » 01 Sep 2017 04:46

Chinese "goodwill" has only succeeded in buying friendships with the criminal states of Pakistan, North Korea, Cambodia, etc. No self respecting nation or people has any interest in China's "goodwill". Ack thoo.

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Re: Neutering & defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby DavidD » 01 Sep 2017 06:20

Posturing's success is judged by facts on the ground, guess we'll just have to wait and see if facts on the ground change.

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Re: Neutering & defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby ramana » 01 Sep 2017 06:31

eklavya wrote:Chinese "goodwill" has only succeeded in buying friendships with the criminal states of Pakistan, North Korea, Cambodia, etc. No self respecting nation or people has any interest in China's "goodwill". Ack thoo.


+108. We should make people think why China is find other lizards for friends.

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Re: Neutering & defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby shiv » 01 Sep 2017 06:56

Suraj wrote:The Bhutanese article is excellent and describes their position and the costs they've borne . Its important that GoI listen and offer them greater security from what will be further vindictive actions by China against Bhutan .

The Chinese have been pressurizing and scaring Bhutan, and the article says that they could have washed their hands off.

That is not true. The fact is China pressurized Bhutan as the article admits. There was no pressure from India. And guess what? If Bhutan had done something inimical to Indian interests India too would have pressurized Bhutan. So what do we have? China putting pressure on Bhutan. India putting pressure on Bhutan. Bhutan cannot resist either of them and joining one or the other is very risky. Apply Occam's razor and remove Bhutan from the picture. That leaves India and China alone in the dispute.

And guess what Doklam was? An India versus China dispute. India may be the shittiest country in the world and China the bestest - but Bhutan survives only because of India and it will continue to survive with its culture and national goals. So with due respect to the article writer - yes, thank you Bhutan. Than you for being sensible and not stupid. We appreciate that and will always support you.

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Re: Neutering & defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Suraj » 01 Sep 2017 07:02

DavidD wrote:
Suraj wrote:The Bhutanese article is excellent and describes their position and the costs they've borne . Its important that GoI listen and offer them greater security from what will be further vindictive actions by China against Bhutan .


India should do that, because judging by that article Bhutan is tired of coming to India's aide with little return favor and is close to giving away an area that's "neither strategically important nor does it hold any economic value" in exchange for Chinese goodwill. Failure to do so would likely mean China's 4D chess strategy in pulling Bhutan away coming to fruition :twisted:

So you're saying great P2 supapawa middle kingdom China hasn't yet convinced little Bhutan to hand over everything it demands ? Their military couldn't beat the Dongguan municipal police force and yet you couldn't get your way with them ? What good is your power then ? In your grandpappa's time Mao sent millions in human waves into Korea when he needed to get his way.

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Re: Neutering & defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby UlanBatori » 01 Sep 2017 07:34

India could give a few nukes to Bhutan...? I didn't know that chinese yuan was the currency of NoKo.

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Re: Neutering & defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby shiv » 01 Sep 2017 07:43

DavidD wrote:
Suraj wrote:The Bhutanese article is excellent and describes their position and the costs they've borne . Its important that GoI listen and offer them greater security from what will be further vindictive actions by China against Bhutan .


India should do that, because judging by that article Bhutan is tired of coming to India's aide with little return favor and is close to giving away an area that's "neither strategically important nor does it hold any economic value" in exchange for Chinese goodwill. Failure to do so would likely mean China's 4D chess strategy in pulling Bhutan away coming to fruition :twisted:

The difference between that article and articles on the Chinese media is that the author of the Bhutan article is free to express his opinion. Bhutan is stuck between a rock and a hard place. China has been putting pressure on Bhutan hoping that "diplomatic" (and financial) pressures will make Bhutan bend. The Bhutanese know that if they bend there will be counter pressure from India.

The Chinese seem to be following a joke version of Confucius' wisdom
Confucius say when man 60 marry girl 25, like buying book for someone else to read.


Because India is allowing Bhutan to survive, the Chinese feel free to put pressure on Bhutan. If you look closely at the map - the Chinese already control and have built roads in a disputed area in North Bhutan - just south of the Nyang Chu river that drains towards Gyangze and Rikaze. The Chinese don't want this area because they can't really get anywhere -its all mountainous. They are telling Bhutan "I will stop raping your wife if you just give me your daughter". The Chinese seem to have learned form Pakistan

Unfortunately for China the alternate area they seek is in Dokala and that is treading on Indian toes. India is prepared to go to war to stop China. OK war is bad and all that - but the decision to fight war depends on China. India's decision is clear. I think the Chinese understand that. For now.

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Re: Neutering & defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby DavidD » 01 Sep 2017 07:51

Suraj wrote:
DavidD wrote:
India should do that, because judging by that article Bhutan is tired of coming to India's aide with little return favor and is close to giving away an area that's "neither strategically important nor does it hold any economic value" in exchange for Chinese goodwill. Failure to do so would likely mean China's 4D chess strategy in pulling Bhutan away coming to fruition :twisted:

So you're saying great P2 supapawa middle kingdom China hasn't yet convinced little Bhutan to hand over everything it demands ? Their military couldn't beat the Dongguan municipal police force and yet you couldn't get your way with them ? What good is your power then ? In your grandpappa's time Mao sent millions in human waves into Korea when he needed to get his way.


Be patient, Pakistan is in the orbit now, Myanmar, Bangladesh, and Maldives are almost there, Sri Lanka and Nepal are teetering on the edge, and Bhutan is heating up. Sometimes it's useful to take a step back and look at the bigger picture. How was China's relationship with those aforementioned countries say 20 years ago vis-a-vis India's relationship with them? How do they compare now? The value of a tactic is more properly evaluated by looking at the strategy it serves.

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Re: Neutering & defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby DavidD » 01 Sep 2017 07:59

shiv wrote:
DavidD wrote:
India should do that, because judging by that article Bhutan is tired of coming to India's aide with little return favor and is close to giving away an area that's "neither strategically important nor does it hold any economic value" in exchange for Chinese goodwill. Failure to do so would likely mean China's 4D chess strategy in pulling Bhutan away coming to fruition :twisted:

The difference between that article and articles on the Chinese media is that the author of the Bhutan article is free to express his opinion. Bhutan is stuck between a rock and a hard place. China has been putting pressure on Bhutan hoping that "diplomatic" (and financial) pressures will make Bhutan bend. The Bhutanese know that if they bend there will be counter pressure from India.

The Chinese seem to be following a joke version of Confucius' wisdom
Confucius say when man 60 marry girl 25, like buying book for someone else to read.


Because India is allowing Bhutan to survive, the Chinese feel free to put pressure on Bhutan. If you look closely at the map - the Chinese already control and have built roads in a disputed area in North Bhutan - just south of the Nyang Chu river that drains towards Gyangze and Rikaze. The Chinese don't want this area because they can't really get anywhere -its all mountainous. They are telling Bhutan "I will stop raping your wife if you just give me your daughter". The Chinese seem to have learned form Pakistan

Unfortunately for China the alternate area they seek is in Dokala and that is treading on Indian toes. India is prepared to go to war to stop China. OK war is bad and all that - but the decision to fight war depends on China. India's decision is clear. I think the Chinese understand that. For now.


Your language might be crude but none of what you say is necessarily false. Consider this though, why does China "want" Dokala? It'll make an invasion of the chicken neck area easier, sure, but like you said, war is bad. I'd like to add that war across the Himalayas is more than bad, it's utterly stupid and suicidal. So does China seek to make such a war slightly less stupid or suicidal? Or perhaps China wants something else? Heck, does China really even need Bhutan? Or Nepal for that matter?

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Re: Neutering & defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby UlanBatori » 01 Sep 2017 08:05

This is absolutely true. China only wants to look inward. Standing in other ppl's land. (See the UBCN analysis with analogy on previous pages..)
BTW, Gobar Crimes has removed the article about Doklam from sight. Even my kind congratulatory comments on the 4000mph train which could take nukes from Pyongyang to Islamabad, same day delivery, were not published :((

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Re: Neutering & defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Arjun » 01 Sep 2017 08:13

DavidD wrote:Be patient, Pakistan is in the orbit now, Myanmar, Bangladesh, and Maldives are almost there, Sri Lanka and Nepal are teetering on the edge, and Bhutan is heating up.

Relationship with China is a kind of a touchstone for what kind of people and government a country has.....that is fairly obvious. Pakistan and North Korea are matches made in heaven for China....as Vietnam and Japan are for India. Ultimately every country in the region has to look in the mirror and see who they really are, what each side stands for and make their call.

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Re: Neutering & defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby shiv » 01 Sep 2017 08:42

DavidD wrote:Your language might be crude but none of what you say is necessarily false. Consider this though, why does China "want" Dokala? It'll make an invasion of the chicken neck area easier, sure, but like you said, war is bad. I'd like to add that war across the Himalayas is more than bad, it's utterly stupid and suicidal. So does China seek to make such a war slightly less stupid or suicidal? Or perhaps China wants something else? Heck, does China really even need Bhutan? Or Nepal for that matter?

China does not need Dokala. China probably does not seek to cut "chicken's neck"

But China has built up a a healthy trust deficit by lying and obfuscation. This appears to be a Chinese cultural characteristic in which what I define as "lying and obfuscation" will be seen by the Chinese as an affront.

There are certain pointers to Chinese behaviour even in Dokala. The Chinese troops on the ground knew exactly where they were. Tracks made by Chinese troops that come from Chinese territory ended in a beautiful loop for people to turn around exactly where the border with India is marked on the map - even though there is nothing on the ground. It's just that they were walking on Bhutanese territory. And they knew that well because a perfectly developed road climbs up a forested mountainside on the Tibet/Amo Chu river valley side that goes from 2500 meters to 4000 plus meters on the Doklam plateau over a linear distance of just 4 km (the zig zag road is much longer of course). And no road on the plateau which has been "Chinese territory"

Beyond the plateau is nothing. No town. No village. Only Indian troops on one side and Bhutan on the other side - for which one has to go downhill again. Chinese comments on my videos have indignantly claimed that the Chinese were building a road on "Their own territory". This is the Chinese way - that is to see an area that appears unoccupied, claim it and build a road that strengthens the claim. And the argument is the same one as that you have made here "China does not mean harm"

Yes. China does not mean harm today. But tomorrow if the Chinese decided to create some trouble (maybe because Indians are such greedy boors?) then this road would matter. Instead of postponing war to that later date, let it be fought now. If the Chinese have patience, maybe Indians have impatience? Why postpone disputes?

Disputes do not happen. They are created. And no international dispute can be mediated. Each side will always claim that the other is wrong. Unless India disputes what China says - China wins by default. And China is welcome to dispute Indian claims - but beyond a point there will be war simply because as far as Indian thinking goes - China may need war to understand its own intent and Indian intent. That is the Indian experience.

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Re: Neutering & defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Suraj » 01 Sep 2017 09:13

DavidD wrote:Be patient, Pakistan is in the orbit now, Myanmar, Bangladesh, and Maldives are almost there, Sri Lanka and Nepal are teetering on the edge, and Bhutan is heating up. Sometimes it's useful to take a step back and look at the bigger picture. How was China's relationship with those aforementioned countries say 20 years ago vis-a-vis India's relationship with them? How do they compare now? The value of a tactic is more properly evaluated by looking at the strategy it serves.

Maybe you didn't get the message from Doklam . Here it is explicitly :

China is past the zenith of its power differential with India . The mid 2000s to mid 2010s were the greatest difference in comprehensive national power between the two countries . That was your time to get all the deals done .

August 2017 is the beginning of the downhill slide of relative Chinese power and ability vs India . You don't have the guts to take on us, and you don't have the influence to get others to stick with you . You haven't gotten Bhutan to acquiesce . And you're too late .

The only way things are going the next couple of decades is in our favor . We already stopped you, kneecapped your actions and you demonstrated your impotence to all these countries. Your deals only worked because you could demonstrate you were the winning horse . Right now, you're losing ground .

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Re: Neutering & defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby DavidD » 01 Sep 2017 10:01

Suraj wrote:
DavidD wrote:Be patient, Pakistan is in the orbit now, Myanmar, Bangladesh, and Maldives are almost there, Sri Lanka and Nepal are teetering on the edge, and Bhutan is heating up. Sometimes it's useful to take a step back and look at the bigger picture. How was China's relationship with those aforementioned countries say 20 years ago vis-a-vis India's relationship with them? How do they compare now? The value of a tactic is more properly evaluated by looking at the strategy it serves.

Maybe you didn't get the message from Doklam . Here it is explicitly :

China is past the zenith of its power differential with India . The mid 2000s to mid 2010s were the greatest difference in comprehensive national power between the two countries . That was your time to get all the deals done .

August 2017 is the beginning of the downhill slide of relative Chinese power and ability vs India . You don't have the guts to take on us, and you don't have the influence to get others to stick with you . You haven't gotten Bhutan to acquiesce . And you're too late .

The only way things are going the next couple of decades is in our favor . We already stopped you, kneecapped your actions and you demonstrated your impotence to all these countries. Your deals only worked because you could demonstrate you were the winning horse . Right now, you're losing ground .



Well that's a pretty weak argument. "You've won everything up until now, but tomorrow is a new day!" You can repeat that phrase every day and there's no way it can be refuted with certainty. None of us is clairvoyant after all. Like I said a few posts back, the proof of posturing will be facts on the ground. Let's wait and see how the facts change on the ground.

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Re: Neutering & defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Katare » 01 Sep 2017 10:09

USA is super power becauae it has friends and allies like Germany, Japan, England, France South Korea, Australia, Singapore and pretty much entire civilized world. China is leading a pack of nations that best can be described as utter failures and that too it had to buy with hard cash. As a pack leader of Pakistan, N Korea, Iran, Venezuela, Myanmar and Sudan and rest of the filth, China's destiny is already set to be What every totalitarian state ends up being. An unqualified Failure!

No decent society is going to follow or ally with you. You just don't have the goods to become a strong world power, leave aside another super power.

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Re: Neutering & defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Suraj » 01 Sep 2017 10:33

DavidD wrote:Well that's a pretty weak argument. "You've won everything up until now, but tomorrow is a new day!" You can repeat that phrase every day and there's no way it can be refuted with certainty. None of us is clairvoyant after all. Like I said a few posts back, the proof of posturing will be facts on the ground. Let's wait and see how the facts change on the ground.

Before shiv or ramana takes on this, let me have a good laugh at your response. "Lets see what happens" is the definition of a 'pretty weak argument'. In some Indian languages, that's called the parkalam argument.

China lost to India at Doklam. From now on we'll remember that when you take on us, despite your hopes that we'd rather think of 1962 instead - a once bigger power in the process of being cut down to size.

You haven't gotten anywhere with Pakistan after 4 decades of help from US, Saudis and China. Go ahead, ask your wife 'honey, lets go live in Karachi/Lahore/Peshawar. I heard is a wonderful safe city to raise our kids in'. She's either going to question your sanity, or if you must go to the subcontinent, insist she prefers someplace in India. Any of those TSP cities, you're risking getting killed. Or being kidnapped for ransom. And that's your greatest ally in the world.

Bangladesh has gone from yelling at us about Farrakha Barrage 20 years ago to permitting Indian goods transit through them. Myanmar just let India pursue terrorists into their territory. And little Bhutan, despite all the Chinese pressure, still doesn't budge. It's 2017 now. China wasted the best 20 years it had to permanently hobble India. You've already lost your cloak of supposed invincibility at Doklam, and you're going to keep losing more. At Rawalpindi now, they're wondering 'if we attack India in Kashmir, will China open a second front, or will they commission the Xinhua Chinese sardar guy and the whiny girl to do another video to scare India ?'

Remember, the border is not between India and China. It's between India and Tibet. It's Chinese forces trying to hold a border between a restive occupied country and a rising power. Think you're going to be able to keep holding that border long term, as the other side keeps growing in might relative to you ?

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Re: Neutering & defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Lisa » 01 Sep 2017 13:31

DavidD wrote:Well that's a pretty weak argument. "You've won everything up until now, but tomorrow is a new day!" You can repeat that phrase every day and there's no way it can be refuted with certainty. None of us is clairvoyant after all. Like I said a few posts back, the proof of posturing will be facts on the ground. Let's wait and see how the facts change on the ground.


Correct, facts have changed on the ground. Under the threat of Indian force China has been forced to stop building its road. More so it was stopped from building a road on "its own territory". Please read again to understand how STRONG China actually is!

P.S. Just to remind you again, "its own territory". :D :D :rotfl:

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Re: Neutering & defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby RajeshA » 01 Sep 2017 13:34

China wasted several decades in not coming to an agreement with India, Nepal and Bhutan regarding the boundary. Even if China had had to make concessions on the boundary, it would have been a fantastic bargain, because it would have cemented China's claims over Tibet and East Turkestan (Xinjiang). Now the time has gone.

By leaving the boundary demarcation as an open issue, China has basically left whole of Tibet and East Turkestan as disputed and occupied regions. China thought it had the advantage of a more militarized country, and later of a growing economy and the might that it bestowed China was sufficient to make the occupation their right. That was a fickle assumption!

The generation that succeeds NaMo, say in 2024 would be a lot more aggressive and ambitious, and everything on the Chinese side of the border would be up for grabs.

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Re: Neutering & defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby chola » 01 Sep 2017 13:47

That bullshit from David is why we should have taken the lumber to them. Multiple that by a billion times and then season that with a heavy dose of commie propaganda.

We need war and violent, unequivical changing of the borders. There should be no doubt. Nothing should be left to interpretation.

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Re: Neutering & defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby RajeshA » 01 Sep 2017 13:53

ramana wrote:
anupmisra wrote:Next step (V. 2.0) to pi$$ing off the over-fed, self pleasuring han, I have a suggestion:

As part of the ongoing (and shall I say, demonstratively successful) neutering of the han (V. 1.0), Indians should online publish maps of chini-occupied and chini-influenced lands with their original Sanskrit names. Publish them on those limited number of sites that are still accessible to the han fifty centers (wiki-bhayya comes to mind). That will take the battle to them.



Anup,

Even the name China is given by Indians.
Will dig up the reference.
Its from Rothermund and Kulke "History of India".

Before that they had no name.


śīna (शीन) means ice!

For Indians, people beyond the ice-covered Himalayas may have been called thus.

Chinese word for China is Zongguo. It is the Indians who used to call a people from the region, not necessarily Han Chinese as "Cina". The Indo-Iranic people in Central Asia too would have used similar terminology and have later on passed on the terminology to Middle-East and Europe.

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Neutering & defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Peregrine » 01 Sep 2017 14:00

X Posted on the STFUP ThreaD

Beijing to PM Modi: Don’t raise Pakistan terror issue at BRICS

BEIJING: China on Thursday sent out a signal that it would object to any discussion about Pakistan's role in sheltering terrorists during the upcoming BRICS summit , which will be attended by Prime Minister Narendra Modi+ . China is worried Modi may raise the issue at the meeting because he did so at the Goa summit of BRICS last year while describing Pakistan as the "mother-ship of terrorism".

"We also noticed that India, when it comes to Pakistan's counter-terrorism, has some concerns. I don't think this is an appropriate topic to be discussed at BRICS summit," Hua Chunying, Chinese foreign ministry spokesperson, said at a briefing. She also indicated that raising the topic might affect the success of the summit because Chinese leaders may be forced to defend its close ally, Pakistan.

"The world is paying great attention to the BRICS summit. I hope relevant parties can work with China to ensure the success of the summit and make due contributions," Hua said. She meant the five members of BRICS including India when she mentioned "relevant parties".

This time the BRICS summit is taking place on September 3 in Xiamen in China, which regards Pakistan as an "all-weather friend". India is in a stronger position to raise the issue because US president Donald Trump recently accused Pakistan of sheltering terrorists and threatened to withdraw financial aid if Islamabad refuses to mend its ways. There are chances Chinese leaders might come to Pakistan's defence+ at the summit.

One of the main objectives of BRICS is to enhance cooperation between the five member countries in fighting against terrorism. But it is difficult for India to join hands in any meaningful manner unless Beijing adopts a different attitude on this issue when it comes to the role of Pakistan.

Hua said, "Pakistan is at forefront of counter terror efforts and has made sacrifices for this. The international community should recognize their contributions and sacrifices made by Pakistan."

She added, "China is willing to work with Pakistan and other countries to enhance our cooperation in counterterrorism. This serves the common interest of all parties."

China routinely refers to "sacrifices" made by Pakistan in battling terrorism but refuses to discuss flawed policies of Pakistani military and government that results in bloodshed across the country.

In an interesting twist, the hawkish Global Times indirectly blamed Islam for terrorism, and said India is mostly free from terrorism because it is largely a Hindu nation. Terrorism exists in an "arc" of Asian countries including Pakistan and Philippines with significant Muslim presence, it said.

"There are tensions at various degrees at various junctions in this arc where it encounters other religions and ethnicity but a dent exists in the Indian portion of this arc," the paper said.

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chola
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Re: Neutering & defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby chola » 01 Sep 2017 14:05

It would be funny if Modi gets up to podium and explicitly declare Pakistan a terrorist state.

It'll be, as an American would say, a deliberate "Fvck You" to the CCP hosts.

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Re: Neutering & defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby hnair » 01 Sep 2017 14:10

:D China is right now the laughing stock among its smaller neighbors. I dont think either Xi or his mortal enemies inside CMC know it yet. In future, not all countries will quietly point the gun at china's ass, like India did. Some of the smaller neighbors (eg: due to UNCLOS violations of china) will pull the trigger on china's ill-disciplined military. And cause a nasty little war, with no post-war advantages to china, due to lack of UN backing. Something that will cause other small countries to love china even more :lol:

Paki must be running back to the US thinking "forget china, they are no India to help a friend. Atleast the US gives us a veneer of respectability in cities with good shopping. And might persuade India not to smack us next time".

Jeez, no wonder even low-cred pakis, with their base survival instincts, brazenly commented about PLAAF pilots at Zhuhai show as "old men of China cannot fly their own planes" etc. P

China be very wary. CMC has effed up and only large purge can help bring lack of discipline.

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Re: Neutering & defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby RajeshA » 01 Sep 2017 14:16

Didn't the Chinese come to Pakistan''s support during BRICS summit in India when NaMo called them out as mothership of terrorism?

Well what stops NaMo from spitting in Xi Jinping''s cup of green tea by calling out Pakistan as a terrorist vermin?

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Re: Neutering & defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby yensoy » 01 Sep 2017 14:20

Peregrine wrote:X Posted on the STFUP ThreaD
BEIJING: China on Thursday sent out a signal that it would object to any discussion about Pakistan's role in sheltering terrorists during the upcoming BRICS summit , which will be attended by Prime Minister Narendra Modi+ . China is worried Modi may raise the issue at the meeting because he did so at the Goa summit of BRICS last year while describing Pakistan as the "mother-ship of terrorism".

"We also noticed that India, when it comes to Pakistan's counter-terrorism, has some concerns. I don't think this is an appropriate topic to be discussed at BRICS summit," Hua Chunying, Chinese foreign ministry spokesperson, said at a briefing. She also indicated that raising the topic might affect the success of the summit because Chinese leaders may be forced to defend its close ally, Pakistan.


Agreed, Modi shouldn't say that Pakistan is sheltering terrorists. He should say China is sheltering Pakistan.

Peregrine wrote:"The world is paying great attention to the BRICS summit or BRICS in general.


No, the world couldn't care less about BRICS summit.

Philip
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Re: Neutering & defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Philip » 01 Sep 2017 14:26

Absolutely.How can cordial relations between members exist of one actually nourishes a state which is consistently using terror against india.If China refuses to budge on the issue, he has every right to admonish his hosts and call a spade a spade. If India is insulted ,Mr.M should instead call it a day and leave the summit.This snub to China will reverberate the world over and XI Gins would lose much face ,endangering his position as Pres, too.The sh*tworm has just been hailed by his captive media hailing him as "the Great Statesman". XI Gins is so power hungry and megalomaniacal,that only being equated with the "Great Helmsman",Chairman Mao will do .

"Sow the wind,reap the whirlwind", (result,is XI GIns!).

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... -statesman
A whirlwind of charisma!': China propaganda blitz hails Xi, the Great Statesman
A six-part television extravaganza starring the president as he bestrides the world is designed to cement his role ahead of October’s party congress
Xi Jinping’s mini-summit with Donald Trump in Florida is featured in the series, Major Country Diplomacy.

Tom Phillips in Beijing
Friday 1 September 2017 04.00 BST Last modified on Friday 1 September 2017 04.17 BST
The red carpet has been rolled out at Harare’s international airport: the Great Statesman saunters down it, his fingers pressed tightly into Robert Mugabe’s palm.

Next, it leads from His Excellency’s Jaguar into London’s 15th century Guildhall, where the Lord Mayor has laid on a banquet of dover sole and red-legged partridge in his honour.

Xi shores up power with demand for army obedience and foreign respect
“Wherever he goes, Xi Jinping sets off a whirlwind of charisma!” hyperbolises a narrator from China’s Communist party-controlled broadcaster, CCTV.

The scenes are part of a four-and-a-half-hour television extravaganza being screened in China this week in a bid to burnish the president’s leadership credentials ahead of a key political summit that will kick off on October 18. “For the first time, China is standing at the centre of the world stage,” viewers of the six-part series Major Country Diplomacy are told. “This is is a new historical course charted by president Xi Jinping.”

October’s twice-a-decade congress marks the end of Xi’s first term as China’s paramount leader and with the event just weeks away, Beijing’s propaganda apparatus is working overtime to sing his praises.

Xi hand in hand with Zimbabwean president Robert Mugabe.
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Xi hand in hand with Zimbabwean president Robert Mugabe. Photograph: Xinhua/REX/Shutterstock
As part of that PR offensive, a string of big-budget “documentaries” – in reality slick, state-funded advertorials – have received a prime-time billing. Earlier this summer, one such series hailed what it portrayed as Xi’s relentless assault on corruption and – despite a notorious crackdown on human rights lawyers and activists – his bid to advance the rule of law.

This week, the focus has been on the overseas triumphs of a globetrotting statesman who has racked up more than 350,000 air-miles battling to make both China – and the world – great again.

In Major Country Diplomacy, Xi appears nursing a pint with David Cameron and being grinned at by Prince William. He hobnobs with Barack Obama, strolls through Donald Trump’s Mar-a-Lago estate and entertains a plethora of world leaders from Raúl Castro and Nicolás Maduro to Shinzo Abe and Jacob Zuma. “Usually he doesn’t have time to dine,” Xi’s interpreter, Zhou Yu, says of his workaholic boss. “Once ... his bodyguard [had to give] me a box of biscuits [so he didn’t go hungry].”

Kerry Brown, head of the Lau China Institute at King’s College, London, said the pre-congress propaganda blitz was mainly for internal consumption: “The core audience for Xi Jinping’s travels abroad is always at home.”

Beijing hoped to portray him as a “global president, for a global age, for a global China” who was restoring his nation to its rightful place on the world stage, said Brown, whose latest book, China’s World: What China Wants, looks at foreign policy under Xi. “This is something most Chinese have an appetite for ... no matter what their inner-most thoughts about the party or the system.”

But the 45-minute films also have a foreign target, painting China’s leader as the anti-Trump; a committed internationalist who champions global trade, developing nations and the fight against climate change. In episode two, Russian president Vladimir Putin pops up to hammer home the message that Xi is both a strong and a stable world leader: “He’s a very good friend, a very reliable partner.”

Other foreign voices also applaud Xi’s preeminence. A British sociologist recites a passage from Xi’s The Governance of China, a tome propagandists claim has sold more than 6m copies worldwide. An Argentine politician declares himself “muy impresionado” with Xi’s rule. Former French prime minister, Jean-Pierre Raffarin, commends Xi’s writing skills and is filmed receiving a signed copy of his book.

Robert Lawrence Kuhn, an American CCTV host who also appears in the series, claimed Xi was playing “a very, very active personal role” in driving a “historic” transformation in Chinese foreign policy. “China has moved from largely a reactive to a very proactive foreign policy,” he said. “People see the more overt expressions of it in the South China Sea and East China Sea but it is really much broader than that,” he added, highlighting what he called Xi’s efforts to promote “a new kind of global governance” on issues such as climate change and trade.

Kuhn, who is preparing his own six-part series on the Chinese president for the Communist party’s English-language channel, said that in official circles Xi was increasingly depicted as the third most important leader of post-revolution China. “Mao Zedong made China stand up in the world ... then Deng Xiaoping [made] China strong economically and now Xi Jinping is making his mark by engaging fully with the world and [bringing about] the full rejuvenation of the Chinese nation,” he said.

“Maybe that is a bit overly simplistic … but that is what is being talked about. And central to that ... is that [Xi] becomes a world statesman-like leader who is bringing China into global governance for the benefit of all countries, including China.”

Brown said Beijing hoped Xi would succeed in recasting China as a benign giant interested in “win-win cooperation” and the greater global good. But there was one flaw in the plan: “The world clearly doesn’t buy it.”
Additional reporting by Wang Zhen

Xi Jinping

shiv
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Re: Neutering & defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby shiv » 01 Sep 2017 14:35

RajeshA wrote:China wasted several decades in not coming to an agreement with India,

Regarding India - China has been phenomenally stupid and India will make China pay for stupidity.

In the 1950s I can understand Mao's paranoia about Kuomintang and Japan. But the victories in the east and the stalemate in Korea seemed to give China the megalomania that it has now. China could have had a friend - but it might be better this way. India is a reluctant competitor but a relentless one. People fart too much about Chinese patience and no one looks at Indian patience which as made in inch ahead and make Pakistan mostly irrelevant despite open US aid. China has given Pakistan next to nothing compared with the US - in terms of money and support. And China and the US have been allies. Now China is blabbering a lot about Indian relations with the US. Why are they so worried? They had a great time sleeping with Pakistan on alternate nights with the US. What's the problem? India talks about "two and a half front" war only because the Pakistan has become less relevant. China may have a lot of money -but they will need lot of young men to hold Tibet and to die on the border for a few square miles of cold plateau here and there. They say China will win without fighting. What the frunk do people think India has done for most of 70 years?

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Neutering & defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Peregrine » 01 Sep 2017 14:44

DELETED
Last edited by Peregrine on 01 Sep 2017 16:02, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Neutering & defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Jits » 01 Sep 2017 15:38

DavidD wrote:
Suraj wrote:The Bhutanese article is excellent and describes their position and the costs they've borne . Its important that GoI listen and offer them greater security from what will be further vindictive actions by China against Bhutan .


India should do that, because judging by that article Bhutan is tired of coming to India's aide with little return favor and is close to giving away an area that's "neither strategically important nor does it hold any economic value" in exchange for Chinese goodwill. Failure to do so would likely mean China's 4D chess strategy in pulling Bhutan away coming to fruition :twisted:


Bhutan did India no favor, it acted in it's own interest. Bhutan knows that giving space to china will one day lead to china swallowing whole of bhutan and it becoming another tibet, they will lose all their cultural and religious identity and will be fully dependent on china. Had bhutan given up doklam to china, then India could have closed their access to sea through India and the only available routes would have been travelling 1000's of kms in to china's eastern ports or west to pakistan ports, all through rough mountain passes which remain closed for 8-months of the year leading to massive spiraling of prices in their country. In the end bhutan was left with two choices to set it future direction - either become china's tibet or become India's sikkim, given the ground realities bhutan wisely chose the latter.

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Re: Neutering & defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby SSridhar » 01 Sep 2017 17:41

China has been shooting at its own two feet consistently and frequently with statements like "India should not raise Pakistani terror" etc.

It doesn't even seem to realize that it is tying itself into knots like this and when cornered trots out a weak defence that puts it into even more problems.

This is true whether it is CPEC, India-Vietnam oil drilling, stapled visa & POK, Masood Azhar' case and Xinjiang, NSG and China's own proliferation, illegal 1963 border agreement with Pakistan etc. It has no answers to questions on these issues.


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