Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 03 Sep 2017 12:02

sanjayc wrote:
Bart S wrote:Vishnu Som's behind the scenes account of the that Chinese TV show is here:
http://www.ndtv.com/blog/i-co-anchored- ... am-1744567

I too didn't find the performance that impressive, but I think we need to cut him some slack. Once our guys get more familiar with this stuff they will do better for sure, but I think our foreign ministry needs to brief anybody with such a plan first, since they are up against people who are basically mouthpieces for their party.
Almost all of these NDTV and Hindu type of journalists have not risen through the ranks on merit - they owe their job to their influential dad pulling the strings. They shine in controlled debates but cut a sorry figure when push comes to shove.

+1008

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 03 Sep 2017 12:19

I am sure Modi will not mention Pakistan by name at the meeting. Pakistan made a laughing stock of itself by raising Kashmir at every meet. If Modi speaks of terror it won't just be Pakistan but also Chinese support to other terrorists in the east.

tandav · Post by **tandav** » 03 Sep 2017 12:30

BSR Murthy wrote:North Korea apparently conducts another nuclear test, South Korea says
Hmm thats interesting. NoKo chose to do a nuke test just before the BRICS summit. China's eastern border just got a whole lot hotter.

I mostly read such events as China testing its Nukes/Missiles via its proxy in NK and TSP to needle their competitors. Last time they did it in 1998 via Pakistan and then again in 2016 via NK and now.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 03 Sep 2017 12:54

shiv wrote:There is a serious misunderstanding of Chinese among Indians and vice versa. "Shameful facts" that reveal Indian realities are seen by Indians as the truth that require to be addressed, not as "shame causing facts" that should be hidden to avoid embarrassment. Poverty is not hidden from others because we are ashamed and would rather hide it. On the other hand the Chinese appear all good - despite fraying seen at the edges because appearances that cause shame are to be avoided. If Indians thought like Chinese we would be shamed into accepting our inferior status because the Chinese do not reveal anything that is not shiny or bad. If others can't see it, it does not exist.

To that extent I think that "allowing the Chinese a way out of Doklam" without shaming them was the right thing to do. When you shame people without any direct gain for yourself other than bolstering one's own ego and making the other "accept your superiority" you are playing the other person's game - where the shamed person will want to continue the game. But if, in your assessment you have actually scared him and told him where to get off, and he knows that he has to get off - then let him get off without shame and keep barking. he will know what to expect next time. This may take several Doklam type iterations to take effect - but it is a form of behaviour modification we can impose on the Chinese without copying their gaming style which they excel in.

In fact the release of the Pangong video was a masterstroke although the left-right statement was an error because Indians who are always ready to accept their inferiority started searching for nuances based on perspective/north/south etc and screwed up the effect somewhat. But the message went to Peiping all right

The Chinese position would be "avoid loss of face" because it shatters the carefully nurtured image of strength and advantage. In order to build this image however it becomes necessary to challenge others, turning them to adversaries even. In this case it is very important whom you challenge.

If you challenge the far less powerful countries, then it has to be on radar but not too much in public, because then China itself can become a butt of jokes that they are a bully and like to beat up the weak. Here it is important that the weak do not challenge Chinese might at all and simply accept meekly the Chinese expansionary move and conditions. Sometimes China would even provide a little money to make the pain less of succumbing to China. Such countries would be like Bhutan, Nepal, Mongolia, Laos, etc.

Then the Chinese like to challenge middle-weights like Philippines, Vietnam, Indonesia, South Korea, Taiwan, etc. In these cases, China does not mind if the challenge is quite public. After all what is the use of being a bully if nobody really knows about you. In this case, China does like to spit lots of fury and even some little fire. The pressure remains incessant. This is how China has been able to expand its ownership rights over the Indo-China Sea (SCS), through incessant pushing. Till now, possibly China may have been under the perception that India at least under UPA belongs to this category too. Basically this is like how one saw the Chinese soldiers trying to push Indian jawans around in the video.

T'hen there are countries China considers as stronger than itself, and with these countries China adopts a victimhood narrative, shows itself as the underdog and calls on its people to resist the imperialists - Americans, Japanese, Russians. In their case, China may not be as such averse to put up a fight, because any fight, with a win or a loss, would still increase its bombast.

With India, China wants to be the elder brother who should have the right to rule Asia, and the younger brother should simply accept this. The elder brother should be able to munch off the younger brother's chocolate anytime he wishes and even thrash the younger's brother's friends when he likes, just to show everybody who the real boss is. And of course elder brother China sometimes does not approve of younger brother India playing with some of the eebil people like Japan and You-ess-aye! If younger brother makes too much trouble, China would send its rabies-infested dog Pakistan to go and bite it.

Indians are telling China, go to hell. India has always been the Guru of the world, and we will take our rightful position by kicking in your robot-nuts and the scrawny dog doesn't frighten us. We are ready for 2 and 1/2 front fight. We don't like unilateral panga because it doesn't suit our Guru-status but if you like a fight, we'll be ready.

China cannot buy us, they cannot intimidate us, they do not boost their ego by picking a fight with us, certainly not if they lose it. So China has a hard time dealing with India, and yet they cannot simply ignore us.

They cannot ignore us, because India's success would mean implosion of China's political system.

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 03 Sep 2017 13:02

Folks,

Shifting course slightly, some very prescient words from Putin a couple of days back: Who Vladimir Putin thinks will rule the world

(CNN)On the first day of the new school year in Russia, students learned an important lesson directly from their president -- who he thinks will rule the world.

Speaking to students during a national "open lesson" from the city of Yaroslavl, northeast of Moscow, Russian President Vladimir Putin said the country that takes the lead in the sphere of computer-based artificial intelligence (AI) will rule.

"Artificial intelligence is the future not only of Russia but of all of mankind," said Putin. "There are huge opportunities, but also threats that are difficult to foresee today."

"Whoever becomes the leader in this sphere will become the ruler of the world," he said, adding that it would be better to prevent any particular "pair of hands" from achieving a monopoly in the field.

And Putin is completely on the dot on this particular prediction. Unfortunately, for anybody who has been following developments - things don't look as rosy for India relative to China as of now.... Hope Modi is clued in to what needs to be done.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 03 Sep 2017 13:03

shiv wrote:
sanjayc wrote:
Almost all of these NDTV and Hindu type of journalists have not risen through the ranks on merit - they owe their job to their influential dad pulling the strings. They shine in controlled debates but cut a sorry figure when push comes to shove.
If YusufDFI had been put in that debate he would have ripped the Chinese a new one. He deals with Pakis with sophistication and aplomb.

Absolutely.

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 03 Sep 2017 13:08

ramana wrote:
sanjayc wrote:
Almost all of these NDTV and Hindu type of journalists have not risen through the ranks on merit - they owe their job to their influential dad pulling the strings. They shine in controlled debates but cut a sorry figure when push comes to shove.
+1008

http://www.ndtv.com/blog/i-co-anchored- ... am-1744567
The experience, though, of doing a show in Beijing was quite incredible. If I were to go beyond my co-host's attempts to talk-down to me, there is little doubt that this was a new beginning, a small, perhaps hesitant effort by Chinese media to engage their Indian counterparts. The show itself isn't going to win any awards. But what is clear is this. Like in Doklam, China has shown flexibility - its state broadcaster is willing to put an anchor from a "rival" nation on the same stage. Would our own national broadcaster, Doordarshan, ever be willing to do the same?

Now i don't understand why he is writing this nonsense. Is he A Journalist from DD who got to go to China at the invitation of the commie party or the commies find him and his tv interesting because NDTV invites every known anti-Indian in debates including Paki Jernalis and Kernails to showcase their terrorist views and musharaff and tell Indians that they dont have a heart through their channel.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 03 Sep 2017 13:44

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njfWNB5Ua3w

RT on Doklam issue - a debate anchored by George Galloway, of all people.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 03 Sep 2017 14:15

Cartoon in today's south china morning post, apparently (or so twitter says). Heh-able.

nam · Post by **nam** » 03 Sep 2017 14:28

India being part of SCO and BRICS is brilliant.

Just like China uses it's friends in ASEAN to fundamentally prevent any consensus on anti-China issue, India being in this orgs will prevent any pro-China agenda being peddled. Fundamentally glorified chai-biskoot session.

With Chinese spending so much effort of these "anti-West" platform, cannot criticise India, not agree with it. They don't want push India in to American camp, nor want to give India a powerful say.

The smartest are the Russian. Sell weapons to India, make money and keep China in check. Be part of anti-West narrative, make money out of China. Brilliant !

The photo op from G20 Hambury and aptly described by MEA spokesperson. "A picture is worth thousand words".

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 03 Sep 2017 14:29

https://www.scmp.com/photos/harrys-view?page=2

It is accurate. This is the cartoon

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 03 Sep 2017 14:36

Linked to JEM's last Youtube link.

China was wounded, that's why its cries on Doklam were shrill : Kanwal Sibal

Inline with the general view on the forum but may not satisfy those who wanted a more decisive action from India. At one point he spell out why India's action wrt China is defensive rather than offensive-defense or offensive and he is not the only one saying that.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 03 Sep 2017 15:14

^^^^^^^

who is the interviewer?? He seems such an ignoramus.

he also seems to have a pre determined agenda and is pushing it for all its worth.

He persisted on drawing an = = between India and china, even in cases where none existed.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 03 Sep 2017 15:19

IIRC, he is Bharat Bhushan and a known sootiya. An *Apdul ki Natasha* type, very active in Kashmir/Bakistan circuit, etc. IIRC, he even went to Kashmir on his own fact finding mission to document GOI's *actrocities* in Kashmir after the pellet gun stink. Was an anchor for one RS TV program too. Watch his last or last but one question where he keeps insisting that both India and China don't want a border resolution.

In this particular instance he hasn't even approached his normal form. Forget him and focus of what Kanwal Sibal has to say.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 03 Sep 2017 16:13

China wants India to go slow on Asia-Africa corridor to keep Japan out - Saibal Dasgupta, Economic Times

China has initiated a move to persuade India to go slow on the Asia Africa Growth Corridor, which New Delhi has formulated along with Japan. It is seen by many as an alternative Silk Road to tap the African market.

Beijing is now trying to persuade India and South Africa to merge the project with the BRICS platform and keep its rival, Japan, out of it. Once merged into BRICS, India's influence on Africa through the project will also get diluted.

The project reflects one of the several differences that participating countries including India, Russia and South Africa has with the host of the upcoming BRICS summit at the Chinese city of Xiamen on Sunday.

This includes sharp differences between Russia and China over energy mix and other issues in the China-Russia gap pipeline, which has been delayed due to this reason.

The Asia Africa Growth Corridor project was planned by India and Japan with the active support of the African Development Bank and several African countries including South Africa who wish to reduce their dependence on Beijing, observers said. The idea is to "create a 'free and open Indo-Pacific region' by rediscovering ancient sea-routes and creating new sea corridors" by integrating the economies of South, Southeast, and East Asia with Oceania and Africa.

China sees the move as a source of major competition that will reduce its economic and political influence over the African continent. It is now trying to persuade both India and African countries to merge the initiative with the BRICS agenda so it can have better control over it.

"BRICS countries should consider how to respond to the opportunities and challenges presented by their enthusiasm for Africa and capitalize on this to increase cooperation," the state run Global Times said in a commentary.

China is also pushing the New Development Bank, the Shanghai based financial institution, which has been created by BRICS countries to expand its lending to different African countries even though they may not be members of the organization. Beijing invited two African countries, Egypt and Guinea, as observers at the Xiamen summit besides three other countries.

One of the invitees, Thailand, has been given a place at the table to return a favor Bangkok did to Beijing when it helped negotiate on China's behalf with the Association of South East Asian Nations (ASEAN) on the vexed issue of the South China Sea.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 03 Sep 2017 16:28

Xi says diplomacy must override “conflict and confrontation” - Atul Aneja, The Hindu

Ahead of the arrival of Prime Minister Narendra Modi for a summit of the five emerging economies in the coastal city of Xiamen, Chinese President Xi Jinping has underscored that the Brazil-Russia-India-China-South Africa (BRICS) grouping must uphold the value of “dialogue and negotiation” to resolve “hotspot issues”

Without specifying the Doklam crisis, where a faceoff between Chinese and Indian troops lasted for over two months, Mr. Xi stressed that “peace and development,” and not “conflict and confrontation” should be the security template of the five emerging countries.

Prime Minister Modi’s arrival in Xiamen is highly anticipated. But Chinese officials here are tight-lipped about the possibility of a one-on-one meeting between Mr. Modi and President Xi, which could help shape ties between New Delhi and Beijing in the post-Doklam phase.

On Saturday, Mr. Modi said he looked forward to a meeting with nine other countries, including BRICS partners, during an Emerging Markets and Developing Countries Dialogue, slated for September 5. Prior to the meeting of all the five leaders, the Chinese side appeared focused on highlighting the maturing of the institutional architecture of the BRICS grouping.

On Friday, construction work on a state-of-the-art headquarters for the New Development Bank (NDB) - of which the world’s five emerging economies are stakeholders - commenced in Shanghai The NDB’s headquarters will be housed in a landmark building along Shanghai’s iconic Huangpu River, the traditional gateways of China’s overseas trade.

During remarks after Friday’s groundbreaking ceremony in Shanghai, K.V. Kamath, NDB’s president underscored the bank’s focus on funding green energy products in tune with the vision of the bank’s founders. Highly placed sources engaged in the preparations of the summit highlighted that India opposes any formal docking of China’s Belt and Road Initiative with the BRICS as part of an end-of summit document in Xiamen.

Nevertheless, India would have no problems in supporting individual bankable projects that are not formally declared a part of the BRI. China’s proposal for establishing a BRICS+ arrangement where the host country of the summit is free to invite non-members is likely to be endorsed at Xiamen.

The sources said that considerable convergence has been achieved to form a BRICS rating agency. Besides, formation of a BRICS financial institute—a think tank on the lines already established by the International Monetary Fund (IMF) has also been widely discussed ahead of the summit.

Despite the rejection of terrorism, India has been calling for the early endorsement of the UN convention of terrorism. The Chinese are opposed to any formulation that would indirectly slam the role of Pakistan in global terrorism.

Cyber security is likely to emerge as another important topic in the Xiamen summit. India, on its part, is keen on promoting digital economy, and is likely to back the existing working group on Information and Communication Technology (ICT), to comprehensively examine all aspects of cyber security.

Javee · Post by **Javee** » 03 Sep 2017 17:10

Every day you learn something about China and the great chairman,

https://www.quora.com/What-happens-if-a ... &srid=tXuL

manjgu · Post by **manjgu** » 03 Sep 2017 17:15

if Vishnu som was half the patriot he claims..he should have said to the chinese anchor...F u...we invite Obama to India because we are world 2 greatest democracies..the day u Mr Anchor can speak freely and china becomes a democracy we will call ur elected leader as well .

ArjunPandit · Post by **ArjunPandit** » 03 Sep 2017 17:31

we need arnab to go to front lines

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 03 Sep 2017 18:12

Another defiance by India is on the way.

China erred by imperiously demanding India not to raise the Pakistani terrorism issue. Last time in Goa, China prevented India from including in the joint statement any reference to terror organizations like LeT or JeM, though both are sanctioned by the UNSC that included China, but allowed only the mention of the IS and Jabhat-al-Nusra.

This time too, China would strongly defend Pakistan but India is not going to shy away from raising the issue even more strongly than in Goa.

China may think it is "inappropriate" to bring up the issue of Pakistan's terror safe havens at the upcoming BRICS meet, but Prime Minister Narendra Modi will be "sure" to raise the subject, said a ministry of external affairs (MEA) spokeswoman on Sunday.

"We had raised it (terrorism) in Goa summit and sure it will revisit us in this summit as well," said Preeti Saran, secretary (east), MEA on Sunday, hours before the PM was scheduled to fly out to Xiamen in China where the annual Brics meet is being held this year.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 03 Sep 2017 18:20

hnair wrote:Satisfying to see the chinese doing hanfu-shivering over whether Shree Modi will "mention paki perfidy or not". An entire TV program, a full-time foreign ministry staffer etc to deal with this rather mainstream foreign office issue? Shows how fragile their national government is, despite all those expensive military parades. They could have very well come prepared with a rebuttal for their repugnant ally, the paki army, if Shree Modi speaks out at the summit. That is what stronger confident countries do. Yes, it might mar their act a wee bit, but the summit will become less boring to others and at least it will show them to be less of wusses than these fainting goats.

The entire world is seeing china's bluff being called a second time in one week. So much for "we set the agenda, you follow", Here, without even speaking once, Shree Modi has reset the BRICS agenda and Shree Xi is following meekly, pleading not to embarrass his act. China is being shown very methodically, its place in the universe, thanks to its ineffective leadership.

So this is the way to blackmail china - via Shree Xi. For the sake of Shree Xi's survival, he will pay through the nose. Threaten in private that his pretty events will get mushed up a bit and he will agree to anything, including pulling the neck chains of modern day eunuchs in charge of the military. Pakis must be furiously scribbling down notes. Expect work stoppages in CPEC to embarass china, so pakis can claim more baksheesh

The wumao of this forum needs to go back and get re-educated on how to deal with new normal, instead of being merely agreeable

+108

The PRC regime is truly so fragile!

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 03 Sep 2017 18:21

sanjayc wrote:
Bart S wrote:Vishnu Som's behind the scenes account of the that Chinese TV show is here:
http://www.ndtv.com/blog/i-co-anchored- ... am-1744567

I too didn't find the performance that impressive, but I think we need to cut him some slack. Once our guys get more familiar with this stuff they will do better for sure, but I think our foreign ministry needs to brief anybody with such a plan first, since they are up against people who are basically mouthpieces for their party.
Almost all of these NDTV and Hindu type of journalists have not risen through the ranks on merit - they owe their job to their influential dad pulling the strings. They shine in controlled debates but cut a sorry figure when push comes to shove.

Som could have talked about the dozens of things India makes and also put in a few pointed rejoinders about how PRC only licenses stuff and even now is dependent on S-3XX/S4-XX to protect Han sovereignty. Doing equal-equal is pointless.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 03 Sep 2017 18:24

Beloveds: There is a point to the Gobar Crimes inviting all these turkeys for "interviews". They are documenting "Indian opinion".

Do you hear a single one enunciating the real issues?
1. Chinese treachery in 1962
2. Chinese occupation of Ladakh/ Aksai Hind
3. Chinese demands on Arunachal
4. Chinese blatant support of Pakistani terrorism and even supplying nuclear weapons to Pakistan
5. Chinese anti-Indian moves south of Myanmar
6. Chinese occupation of Gwadar and military base there
7. Chinese support of terrorism inside India (Naxalites, Assam... etc etc)
8. Chinese role in Godhra terrorist attack
9. Chinese treachery at Nathu La 1967 (resulting in 4000 Chinese dead)

Instead these dolts are acting like deer caught in headlights, giving Expert Exfarts on "Doklam".

THESE are India's "Defence and Foreign Policy Experts"? Vishnu Som as bad as the others?

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 03 Sep 2017 19:01

I have not actually watched NDTV for 6 or more months. I watch WION, Republic and Times Now (when I watch English news) - for about 15 minutes each in a day- so I wouldn't know what NDTV is up to.

I stopped watching NDTV because the channel is too busy looking for faults in India and self flagellation rather than understand what China or Pakistan are doing. A useless channel on the whole. But what we say here is picked up by Baidu and they will invite NDTV types for their shows

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 03 Sep 2017 19:06

manjgu wrote:if Vishnu som was half the patriot he claims..he should have said to the chinese anchor...F u...we invite Obama to India because we are world 2 greatest democracies..the day u Mr Anchor can speak freely and china becomes a democracy we will call ur elected leader as well .

Vishnu Som is a fraction better than the Undy Bimbos and rats like Omar Abdullah's keep, Srinivasn Jain who is on a Jihad against BJP, and other westernized wannabe bimbets (forget their names, especially the one who replaced Burka). But even Vishnu Som lacks the intellectual firepower and nationalist bone to take on the likes of Chincoms and ISI-sponsored TSP TFTA spokesmen.

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 03 Sep 2017 19:27

China is a country of trolls, governed by trolls and for the trolls. So answering their TV trolls with factual rebuttal is just playing their game. A country that eats tiger benis and parades half naked women as "military" for an old creep sticking his neck out of a moon-roof is not exactly serious about anything. Why bother?

Troll back, point out that khan's ULV programme uses soviet-era RD-180 engines. So Obama-mama is ok with watching russian equipment on parade. Ending with "But you guys should have changed the Russian flag to your own from the cosmonaut suits you ordered from Moscow.... Ha!!
made you google for "tikki-nut", which btw, pairs great with Amrut Single-malt"

Shree Arnab runs a choreographed show, so he might not fit in. As we have seen with NDTV anchors, these are all tigers under their controlled circumstances, but not abroad. We need to send that openly lesbian Indian standup comedian, who ripped a new one in that video rebuttal of "Six Scene" video. She did sent a lot of messages alright

Whomever thought of her segment deserves a big round of applause

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 03 Sep 2017 19:33

Who the phak cares which desi sellout presstitutes the cheeni bozos choose to parade on their 'flee pless', i wonder.

Let the turds continue their BS. Yawnably dismiss them, to really get their attention. Feel I.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 03 Sep 2017 19:42

I have gone completely crazy looking at Google earth. For the heck of it I started looking at the China Vietnam and China NoKo borders to see if China had military camps like they have near crucial points with India. In a word, no, they don't. No visible nearby defences. Admittedly I will have to look harder - but I did not have to look hard in Tibet.

Now explain this to me. China keeps a limited number of troops in Tibet - it's not great to feed and house them at 4000 plus meters. They have no army installations facing 800 plus km of Korea border and 1000 km of Vientam border. None on the coast I'm guessing So wtf they do with their troops other than the pretty women used for entertainment?

Let me tell you what I think. I bet a fair number are in Xinjiang and Tibet for internal security duties. Still the Cheenibuggers have a large army? What are they doing with them. Other than threatening civilians what ops are they conducting?

If Indian borders with Shitistan and China were like Chinas borders with Vietnam and NoKo we would probably need only a 200,000 man army for flood relief.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 03 Sep 2017 19:52

Hari Seldon wrote:Cartoon in today's south china morning post, apparently (or so twitter says). Heh-able.

It is an SCMP cartoon (by Harry's). It's a Hong Kong newspaper, thus some degrees of freedom. But, it is still a chini mouthpiece, in a back handed way. Here's an article from SCMP on the Dhokla affair. Bottom line: please be patient and understanding with the chinis. (Apologies for the heading which was in upper case letters)

WHAT SOUTH CHINA SEA RIVALS CAN LEARN FROM THE DOKLAM BORDER DISPUTE by Sourabh Gupta

Resolution of the India-China border dispute is testament to the strength of boundary management protocols

so the standoff was wound down imperceptibly with deft diplomacy by both sides

New Delhi and Beijing began implementing the terms of their disengagement understanding, commencing with the withdrawal of Indian troops and equipment from the Chinese side of the border. The offending Chinese road construction activity that had constituted a “significant change in the [security] status quo” in India’s view and triggered its trespass across the border in the first place, is likely to be withdrawn in the days ahead.

Did Xi blink in order to remove a dark cloud over the impending BRICS summit as well as the forthcoming 19th National Party Congress? Was Modi read the riot act that forced him to move first? Was Bhutan a silent bystander through gritted teeth all along?

Two provisions in particular played an outsize role: the requirement that border personnel on both sides be lightly armed and exercise maximum self-restraint in case of untoward encounters at the border; and the limits on armed force deployments as well as ceilings on tanks, large calibre infantry guns, and surface-to-surface missiles to their rear within designated zones.

the face-off between Chinese and Indian border personnel was limited to fisticuffs at worst

The successful application of China-India boundary management protocols bears wider relevance to the South China Sea, East China Sea and the Western Pacific, where such mechanisms operate rudimentarily at best.

First and foremost, boundary or crisis management measures with China are a confidence-building measure. For a code of conduct in the South China Sea or a maritime communication mechanism in the East China Sea to take shape, a period of political quiet and trust must first be engendered in Asean (the Association of Southeast Asian Nations) and Japan’s respective relationships with Beijing.

Second, devising boundary or crisis management mechanisms with China requires patience and perseverance.

Third, boundary or crisis management mechanisms with China are a work in progress.In a similar vein, China and India should draw up an additional protocol that forbids construction-related activity in close proximity to the two sides’ understanding of the LAC. Beijing and New Delhi should also establish greater geographic separation between their border forces

Finally, Sino-Indian boundary and crisis management arrangements are voluntary and depend entirely on good faith. Although the provisions are prescriptive, they do not contain binding verification mechanisms.

Beijing’s rival claimants in Asia’s seas and strategic competitors in the Western Pacific would be well-advised to pay attention to these crisis management lessons

Rest of the world, please be patient, understanding and appreciative of the chini ambitions to take over its neighborhood. In the words of a famous pig:

http://www.scmp.com/week-asia/geopoliti ... er-dispute

SriKumar · Post by **SriKumar** » 03 Sep 2017 19:59

In light of the NoKo nuclear explosion, will the BRICS meeting still happen? The temperature of the region just got hotter and will overshadow the meeting. The best that one could accomplish now is to ink deals that were already decided previously. Discussions on future will be on very uncertain ground. Xiamen is about 800 miles from NoKo, not too close but not far either. China military and navy will be on high alert for sure. The nuclear explosion happened too close to the BRICS meeting date (has it already started)?). This gives me the impression that NoKo is doing its own thing (and not following direction from China). If true, this is another reason for world leaders to not meet at Xiamen.
China may still want to hold the summit, if only to 'show the world' that it can handle a crisis and a run summit at the same time. But clearly, some portion of these events suggest China does not have control over some major events in its own neighborhood (other than Dokalam).....unless it is suggested that China knew about the nuclear event and 'OKayed' it (I dont know which possibility is worse).

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 03 Sep 2017 20:47

^ +1.

I propose renaming NoKo to NooKo. Onlee. /sarc off.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 03 Sep 2017 20:50

pankajs wrote:Linked to JEM's last Youtube link.

China was wounded, that's why its cries on Doklam were shrill : Kanwal Sibal

Inline with the general view on the forum but may not satisfy those who wanted a more decisive action from India. At one point he spell out why India's action wrt China is defensive rather than offensive-defense or offensive and he is not the only one saying that.

He is the brother of Kapil Sibal, Congress Party, former Minister of Communication and IT in the MMS govt (famous for $35 one child one laptop scheme). Kapil Sibal is a dynasty chamcha and there is no reason not to think that his brother Kanwal Sibal former IFS Foreign Secretary is not the same.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 03 Sep 2017 20:58

BRICS will happen.The US will try and use the opportunity that Putin,XI Gins,Modiji and other leaders are all in attendence and work together to help resolve the crisis.In fact it is an opportunity for BRICS to tell the US/West that sanctions against poorer nations and crude acts similar against Russia,etc. will never work.Sanctions never worked against India when we tested at P-2!

NoKo's nukes are a fact. it ensures the regime's survival.Saddam was an idiot.he should've worked in abso secrecy to develop his nukes,maintained excellent relations with israel-after all the West were behind him all the way in the Iran-Iraq war.Germany gave him chem-weapons tech as did a galaxy of western arms manufacturers. Gadhaffi was another cretin.The Iranians have just managed by the skin of their teeth to survive a regime change attempt and have protected their N-tech thus developed.They have survived becos they are too difficult a nation to conquer,would turn the Gulf into a mega firework display creating a global petro catastrophe of epic proportions,plus also get tacit help from Russia,arms,etc. as well as China. If Russia and China back Iran just as Russia is backing Syria,the US and its Sunni allies would be up the spout.Howeveer,an Iranian N-bomb is going to be the next big thingie .It is inevitable as the sun rises in the east. Watch this space.

A line for Mr.M from me to his hosts in Beijing.Old Chinese saying."Journey of a thousand miles begins with the first step". Old Indian saying. "Great wall of China built not with just one big BRIC!....It takes many BRICS to build a big wall and all must be of equal size!"

Therefore,equality is expected in fighting terrorism,in trade,economic cooperation,where all members must share in the wealth created. No single nation can believe that it must come first and everyone follow it like vassals. These are what Mr. M should say in essence at the summit.XI Gins can pour himself another large gin and swallow his false pride.

Xi Jinping says a dark shadow looms over the world after years of peace
Timing of North Korea’s latest nuclear test represents a diplomatic embarrassment for Chinese president at Brics talks
• North Korea claims test of ‘missile-ready’ nuclear bomb - latest updates

Xi Jinping: ‘People around the world want peace and cooperation, not conflict or confrontation.’ *(What about Doklam Gin PIg?)
Tom Phillips in Beijing
Sunday 3 September 2017 11.34 BST Last modified on Sunday 3 September 2017 13.57 BST
A dark shadow is looming over the world after more than half a century of peace, the Chinese president, Xi Jinping, has said after North Korea’s sixth nuclear test.

Xi made no direct reference to Sunday morning’s detonation as he addressed an annual summit of the Brics nations but told his audience that only through dialogue, consultation and negotiation could “the flame of war be put out”.

“Thanks to the joint effort of all countries, global peace has reigned for more than half a century. However, incessant conflicts in some parts of the world and hotspot issues are posing challenges to world peace,” Xi said in his 40-minute address to a summit attended by Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa in south-east China.

“The intertwined threats of terrorism and a lack of cybersecurity – among others – have cast a dark shadow over the world. People around the world want peace and cooperation, not conflict or confrontation.”

'A whirlwind of charisma!': China propaganda blitz hails Xi, the Great Statesman

The timing of North Korea’s latest nuclear test represents a major diplomatic embarrassment for Xi, who has been attempting to burnish his credentials as a foreign policy guru ahead of a key Communist party congress next month. Last week, state media televised a six-part homage to Xi’s foreign policy achievements, hailing the “whirlwind of charisma” he had taken to five continents and 56 different countries since taking power nearly five years ago.

Xi had hoped to further boost his image as an international statesman by hosting this week’s Brics summit, an event that has now been upstaged by Kim Jong-un’s nuclear test.

Sunday morning’s test caused a 6.3-magnitude earthquake, which shook towns and villages along eastern sections of China’s 880-mile border with North Korea and sent residents racing out into the streets.

“I was having lunch in a restaurant when the lights just started shaking,” Zhang Zhiyuan, a journalist for the Yanji News, who lives and works less than 20 miles from the border, told the Guardian. “People here have all run outside of their apartments.”

Video footage released by Xinhua, China’s official news agency, showed light fittings trembling in one home following the test.

Hundreds of miles west in Beijing, the political reaction was muted. China’s foreign ministry issued a brief statement, in which it said Beijing “resolutely opposes and strongly condemns” the test. “China will work with the international community … to unswervingly push forward the denuclearisation of the peninsula and to unswervingly maintain peace and stability on the peninsula,” added the statement, which was similar to previous Chinese condemnations of North Korean tests.

The Global Times, a Communist party-controlled tabloid that sometimes reflects official views, criticised North Korea’s apparently most powerful nuclear test yet as “another wrong choice” from Pyongyang.

“This test will result in a new round of escalating tensions on the Korean peninsula and heighten the risk of the situation spiraling out of control due to possible miscalculations by all sides,” it said in an English-language editorial. “In face of such a complicated situation, China needs a sober mind.”

“The Chinese government should feel angry, unhappy and disappointed,” said Cheng Xiaohe, an associate professor of international relations at Beijing’s Renmin University. “The nuclear test is a slap in the face for China.”*(More like a shaft up XI GIns' bunghole!)

Experts say Beijing is wary of placing too much pressure on Pyongyang for fear of causing regime collapse and a calamitous regional crisis that might ultimately bring US troops even closer to Chinese soil.

But Cheng said he believed Beijing needed to ratchet up the pressure on Kim while also dispatching a special envoy to Pyongyang for direct talks with its leaders. “I think it’s time for everybody to put their cards on the table. The time for business-as-usual has passed.”

Shen Dingli, an international relations expert from Shanghai’s Fudan University, said Sunday’s test underlined the futility of both Washington and Beijing’s policies towards North Korea.

“North Korea is determined to get nuclear weapons [so] whatever sanctions and international opposition there is will fail. China will continue to promote failure through its failing policy of more tests, more sanctions, more sanctions, more tests. China has entered a deadlock. North Korea will get nuclear weapons just like China did in the 1960s ... China is destined to fail.

Shen said he also believed it was only a matter of time before Donald Trump realised he had no choice but to sit down with Kim.
“He is a businessman. He is a smart man. Donald Trump will be the first US president to accept North Korea’s nuclear weapons,” he said.

John Delury, a North Korea expert from Yonsei University in Seoul, said he believed it was also time for Washington to start direct talks with Pyongyang: “They are barrelling ahead on their nuclear and missile programmes and we need to find an off-ramp.”

Additional reporting by Wang Zh

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 03 Sep 2017 21:04

Quick thought? XI Gins ahs already had to eat humble pie after Doklam,where India did not budge.Now the Pig has been shafted by his dear ally Kim the Young Un in spectacular style,caring b*gger all for XI Gins advice. This will not go down very well at the party congress,where this epitome of "charisma" of the great global statesman,and would-be Chairman of China like the Great Helmsman Chairman Mao,will be severely dented. If little braggart Kim can embarrass this great charismatic modern-day "Mao",showing him and the trumpeter his nuclear kimchi,who will listen to China "yours obediently" hereafter? What are the odds on Xi GIns falling flat on his face cometh the congress?

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 03 Sep 2017 21:11

In a chini-diabolical way, it may be that eleven gin-peg actually egged young-un to detonate the big bum and created an opening for himself to defuse (no pun intended) the situation. "Whirlwind" leader and all. Ironic choice of words by gobar-slimes.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 03 Sep 2017 21:16

NoKo nuclear test is simply China testing its own nuclear arsenal covertly and overtly playing the shocked honest broker. Funny how USA also plays along.

Bhookha-nanga NoKo just can't pull this thing without Chinese cooperation.

We need our own tester - Vietnam perhaps!

Suresh S · Post by **Suresh S** » 03 Sep 2017 21:34

There is of course politics in the appointment of Nirmala Sitharam(women,s votes in 2019) but I have to say onething about this lady. Whenever I saw her u could sense there is steel behind this lady.Do not expect mild manners like Parikar sir. Expect some fireworks from her with respect to cheen. Very interesting appointment from PM. I wanted General VK but expect some serious kickass to India,s enemies with this appoinment, another googly from Modi.

Most important appointment in the cabinet reshuffle in my view.All enemies both domestic and foreign watchout.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 03 Sep 2017 21:35

I don't know about their public reaction, but 100% probability that Eleven will be adored for his impeccable helmsmanship in guiding Great Ally NoKo to true greatness. And you do have to hand it to them: if there is not a US all-out assault inside a week, the show is over.
The timing of the test is not accidental, that's for sure. And the tested article is 100% chinese, no doubt about that either. I mean, 99% copied from obliging Imperialist Paper Tiger of course, but that's what "Designed in China" means, hain?

BSR Murthy · Post by **BSR Murthy** » 03 Sep 2017 21:38

Well, NoKo is China's skunk works project and "strategic depth" with which China would get away with nuke/missile testing and needle the West with some plausible deniability/impunity. That has been the conventional wisdom, but, looking at the timing of the nuclear test I am not sure if KJU is adequately leashed in by Xi.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 03 Sep 2017 21:53

What makes threats credible today? I put this question to 250 foreign military officers over the past two years. Their answers were surprising. The No. 1 ranked factor in threat credibility was not a country’s willingness to risk soldiers’ lives, its superior power, or even its reputation for carrying out threats. It was domestic political support for military action.

https://www.theatlantic.com/internation ... ce/538779/

Domestic support within India for military action should China make a misstep against India - that is one of the keys to neutering the Chinese threat.
(Defanging it is another matter.)