Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

All threads that are locked or marked for deletion will be moved to this forum. The topics will be cleared from this archive on the 1st and 16th of each month.
sum
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10097
Joined: 08 May 2007 17:04
Location: (IT-vity && DRDO) nagar

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby sum » 04 Sep 2017 12:37

^^ Well spotted!

arun
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10248
Joined: 28 Nov 2002 12:31

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby arun » 04 Sep 2017 13:05

India has sucessfully kept out of the BRICS Xiamen declaration any endorsement for pet intiatives of the Peoples Republic of China namely the One Belt One Road (OBOR) and Belt and Road Initiative (BRI).

Despite Peoples Republic of China pre Xiamen BRICS meet fulminations opposing India bringing up of Islamic Republic of Pakistan sponsored Mohammadden Terrorism at the BRICS meet, India has sucessfully got the BRICS Xiamen declaration that the Peoples Republic of China was hell bent on blocking, to mention of Mohammadden Terrorism emanating from the Mohammadden Terrorism Fomenting Islamic Republic of Pakistan by getting the declaration to include Mohammadden Terrorist groups originating in the Islamic Republic such as India Centric Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT), Jaish-e-Mohammad (JeM) included. Other Islamic Republic of Pakistan resident Mohammadden Terrorist groups included are the Haqqani Network. The fly in the onitment is that undoubtedly owing to the PRC going to bat for Iron Brother Pakistan, the Tehreek e Taliban Pakistan (TTP) was also included not to mention the PRC’s Mohammadden bogeyman, Eastern Turkistan Islamic Movement (ETIM). See 48.

Full text of BRICS Leaders Xiamen Declaration from our MEA’s website:

BRICS Leaders Xiamen Declaration

pankajs
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14734
Joined: 13 Aug 2009 20:56

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby pankajs » 04 Sep 2017 13:15

schinnas wrote:It is a win for India. We failed to name LeT and JeM in Goa declaration. Now, this should hurt both Cheen and Pakistan. How can Cheen justify putting technical hold on JeM chief when BRICs declaration on its soil condemned them by name.

My guess is that China wouldn't extend the tech hold on Azar when it expires next. That may be one of the things they may have bargained away to get a face saver on Doklam.

Agree. This is a signal of movement on the Azar issue but till it doesn't happen it doesn't happen. Chinese are still apt to play games. Will be interesting to watch Baki reaction and how the Chinese spin it.

In my view this is less an impact of Doklam than the threat of a *failed* summit if India has held back its assent for a joint declaration. That was what had forced GOI's hands in Goa and that looks likely to have happened in China but in reverse. In Goa India had to give in where as in here China had to give in. Classic leverage at play. GOI has learnt to push hard where it has leverage and that is a good thing. We are seeing a more confident GOI when it comes to dealing with world powers and particularly with the Chinese first at Doklam and then with the joint statement.

But whatever the cause, it is a clear win for GOI/Modi and that document will forever live to remind China of its own commitment.

Javee
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2377
Joined: 13 Jan 2003 12:31
Location: NJ

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Javee » 04 Sep 2017 14:22

From the mouth piece; Although it talks about the over all trend, it does specifically says that rains this year was more than normal, may be the cause of floods in Assam this year.

Qinghai-Tibet plateau wetter, warmer in early summer: study
(Xinhua) 13:52, September 04, 2017

LHASA, Sept. 4 -- The Qinghai-Tibet plateau has grown wetter and warmer in early spring over the past forty years, according to a study published in the Journal of Geophysical Research.

A significant increase in the amount of precipitation over the southeastern part of the plateau occurred from 1979 to 2014, said Zhang Wenxia, a researcher with the Institute of Atmospheric Physics.

The trend was due to the earlier onset of the South Asian summer monsoon since the late 1970s, Zhang said.The plateau plays an essential role in the global water system. "Increased rainfall has provided water to plants in the lower reaches. Soil moisture level has also increased remarkably in the season, so plants turned greener," she said.

Zhang said that increased precipitation at the southeastern part of the plateau had also alleviated water shortage problems in several areas downstream.
"For example, in Lhasa, rain has been particularly ample this year. Sometimes it rained all day. During summer, the mountains turned green," she said.

arun
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10248
Joined: 28 Nov 2002 12:31

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby arun » 04 Sep 2017 14:37

arun wrote:India has sucessfully kept out of the BRICS Xiamen declaration any endorsement for pet intiatives of the Peoples Republic of China namely the One Belt One Road (OBOR) and Belt and Road Initiative (BRI).

Despite Peoples Republic of China pre Xiamen BRICS meet fulminations opposing India bringing up of Islamic Republic of Pakistan sponsored Mohammadden Terrorism at the BRICS meet, India has sucessfully got the BRICS Xiamen declaration that the Peoples Republic of China was hell bent on blocking, to mention of Mohammadden Terrorism emanating from the Mohammadden Terrorism Fomenting Islamic Republic of Pakistan by getting the declaration to include Mohammadden Terrorist groups originating in the Islamic Republic such as India Centric Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT), Jaish-e-Mohammad (JeM) included. Other Islamic Republic of Pakistan resident Mohammadden Terrorist groups included are the Haqqani Network. The fly in the onitment is that undoubtedly owing to the PRC going to bat for Iron Brother Pakistan, the Tehreek e Taliban Pakistan (TTP) was also included not to mention the PRC’s Mohammadden bogeyman, Eastern Turkistan Islamic Movement (ETIM). See 48.

Full text of BRICS Leaders Xiamen Declaration from our MEA’s website:

BRICS Leaders Xiamen Declaration


X Posted from the OBOR thread.

Earlier at one of the percursor meetings leading up to the Xiamen meet, the one at Fuzhou, the Peoples Republic China had tried real hard to get BRICS endorsement of Bridge & Road Initiative aka BRI but was stonewalled by India.

That stonewalling seems to have carried though to Xiamen and India has ensured that there is no suggestion that BRICS endorsed pet Peoples Republic of China intiative of Bridge and Road Innitiative (BRI) and One Road One Belt (OBOR).

Bravo India:

The Hindu has learnt that at a conference of the political parties, think-tanks and civil society groups of the BRICS countries held in Fuzhou, Indian and Chinese delegates failed to arrive at a consensus that the five emerging economies should formally support the BRI. Brazil, Russia and South Africa are the other members in the BRICS grouping. The Fuzhou conference, organised by the Communist Party of China, is widely seen as an important component in framing the outcome of the BRICS summit, which will be held in the Chinese coastal city of Xiamen.
The differences between the two delegations became evident when the text of the Fuzhou Initiative, released at the end of the conference, was changed, on the insistence of India.

‘Great significance’

Paragraph 14 of the first document’s first version had commended “the Belt and Road Initiative proposed by China” for its “great significance for achieving development in developing countries…” However, since a consensus could not be achieved, the entire paragraph was dropped in the final version, which was finally adopted at the conference. A source privy to closed door deliberations, which resulted in recommendations for the BRICS summit as a separate “outcome” document, said that Indian side, nevertheless, expressed its willingness to support individual connectivity projects, provided they were not tied up with the BRI.

India had boycotted last month’s Belt and Road Forum, hosted by China for promoting the BRI.


Dating back to June 20, 2017, from here:

India objects to BRICS supporting China’s BRI

sanjayc
BRFite
Posts: 451
Joined: 22 Aug 2016 21:40

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby sanjayc » 04 Sep 2017 14:56

In big win for India, BRICS declaration deplores terror in region, slams Pakistan-based Lashkar, Jaish, Haqqani

NEW DELHI: In a big win for India, and for the first time, BRICS countries on Monday slammed Pakistan without naming it, as they "deplored" terror attacks in member countries and the "violence caused" by Pakistan-based terror outfits.

The 'BRICS Xiamen Declaration' specifically named the Pakistan-based Haqqani network, Lashkar-e-Taiba, Jaish-e-Mohammed, and the Taliban, ISIL/DAISH and Al-Qaida.

In addition, the BRICS members+ also called for greater efficiency in designation of terrorists. This is particularly significant, because it is BRICS member China that has been blocking designating Jaishe-e-Muhammad chief Masood Azhar.

"All BRICS leaders came up very strongly in condemning terror in all its manifestations. You can see that in seven paragraphs of the declaration," said an MEA spokeswoman on Monday after the declaration was made public.

BRICS members made clear they condemn terrorism in all its forms.

"We deplore all terrorist attacks worldwide, including attacks in BRICS countries, and condemn terrorism in all its forms and manifestations wherever committed and by whomsoever and stress that there can be no justification," said what is being called the 'BRICS Xiamen Declaration'.
"Members in BRICS countries have been victims of terrorism and today's declaration acknowledges we must work collectively,"said the MEA spokeswoman.


http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 358487.cms

SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 24179
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby SSridhar » 04 Sep 2017 15:01

Folks, the specific mention of Pakistan-based terror groups and the non-inclusion of BRI in the BRICS joint-statement are tremendous achievements by India.

At the next UNSC 1267 meeting scheduled in November, Maulana Masood Azhar will be eventually included in the terrorist list.

More than anything else, China has learnt the limitations of its power-play vis-a-vis India.

I expect a few more positive developments in the India-China relationship in the near future but let us wait for the momentum to build up for that.

kapilrdave
BRFite
Posts: 1566
Joined: 17 Nov 2008 13:10

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby kapilrdave » 04 Sep 2017 15:12

Not only our PM spoke loudly about the terror, he also said that Indian soldiers are the strength of India.

Javee
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2377
Joined: 13 Jan 2003 12:31
Location: NJ

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Javee » 04 Sep 2017 15:29

XI is bringing his old and trusted friends in to the game,

General seen as Xi Jinping’s keen supporter named new chief of Chinese army’s ground forces

Han Weiguo, who played a key role in a huge military parade showcasing the army’s latest weaponry, has been promoted as commander of the PLA’s ground forces. The 61-year-old former commander of the Central Theatre Command made his first speech in the new role on Thursday, Beijing Daily reported. Han vowed to enhance battle readiness of the army and to ensure troops were loyal to the Communist Party, the article said.

Han’s close ties to Xi and a well-rounded resume – he has held senior military positions across the country, including in Fujian, Nanjing and Beijing – likely won him the job, according to observers.

His service in Fujian in the 1980s coincided with Xi’s, who was then deputy mayor of Xiamen. This experience may have made Han a trusted aide to Xi, said Yue Gang, a military commentator and retired PLA colonel.



This was during his last promotion (Jan 2014),
The paper added that Major General Han Weiguo, 57, also attended the meeting as a deputy commander. Han previously served as commander of the 12th Group Army based in Nanjing , Jiangsu province. The elite unit has a distinguished history dating back to the 1940s, during the civil war. A number of its units were reportedly sent to suppress the Tiananmen protests and enforce martial law in Beijing in 1989.

As the youngest of the four deputy commanders in Beijing, Han, 58, is a rising star in the PLA who is said to have the trust of Chinese president and Central Military Commission chairman Xi Jinping. He is expected to soon be promoted to the rank of lieutenant general.

-Source SCMP

UlanBatori
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14045
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby UlanBatori » 04 Sep 2017 16:28

shiv wrote:Modi kept shaking Xi's hand and .. the length and vigor of the handshake

Per UBCNews Modi kept shaking XiT's hand to see if XiT grimaced because of the pain in his musharraf.

RajeshA
BRF Oldie
Posts: 15999
Joined: 28 Dec 2007 19:30

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby RajeshA » 04 Sep 2017 17:10

Joint declarations from multilateral forums like BRICS, SCO and APEC are important for China to give its image and expansionist agenda a veneer of international blessing, considering that its only close strategic buddies are Pakistan and North Korea. For India, these joint declarations are only important as far as they get a public commitment from trouble-making countries like China, that they would act civilized and help world fight terrorism.

Otherwise India does not really need such joint declarations!

chola
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4891
Joined: 16 Dec 2002 12:31
Location: USA

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby chola » 04 Sep 2017 17:29

Neutering of Cheen will begin for real. It won't just be defanged, its whole fvcking head will be crushed.

Kinetic annihilation of Cheen's wayward puppet will force the PRC to enter the fight that it can't win or watch American power smash its buffer zone against its borders.

At the same time, this provides the perfect excuse to go "nuclear" in its trade war with Cheen. This will cut Cheen's power at its foundation.

Cheen had a good run to number two but it's going to be over pretty soon.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2017/09/03/trump-blasts-n-korea-hostile-and-dangerous-after-nuke-test/629613001/

U.S. warns of 'massive military response,' halt in Chinese trade after N. Korea nuke test

Bart S
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2434
Joined: 15 Aug 2016 00:03

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Bart S » 04 Sep 2017 17:37

There are several positive developments (rather surprising given then very recent braying of Gobar Times etc), well played by our govt and PM.

However, I hope we don't follow our usual Indian mentality of going from one extreme to another, i.e swinging like a pendulum between boycott China and Hindi-Chini bhai-bhai. Our media and JNU educated worthies will, but hope our public and government is more cold, calculating and unforgiving. We need a ruthless laser focus on our interests and need to be wary always.

This sudden U-turn is rather suspicious, its rather like the Chinese have figured out that bullying us openly and directly is going to backfire, and putting us at ease by empty flattery and duplicitous and worthless but positive-seeming PR gestures, while continuing their expansionism, encirclement and slow creep towards undermining us, is the best strategy.

RajeshA
BRF Oldie
Posts: 15999
Joined: 28 Dec 2007 19:30

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby RajeshA » 04 Sep 2017 17:47

Bart S wrote:This sudden U-turn is rather suspicious, its rather like the Chinese have figured out that bullying us openly and directly is going to backfire, and putting us at ease by empty flattery and duplicitous and worthless but positive-seeming PR gestures, while continuing their expansionism, encirclement and slow creep towards undermining us, is the best strategy.


The one consistent policy of Indians, and I don't mean GoI here, toward China should be of boycotting all products and services emanating from Chinese companies, be they in China or elsewhere in the world.

#BoycottChineseProducts!

Anything we feed the Chinese would end up strengthening the Lizard or its followers. Any money we give China would end up paying the salaries of the PLA or ISI. So why do it?!

Should Trump enforce a stoppage of trade with China in any form whatsoever as an effort to address their trade imbalance or NoKo nuclear tests, we should support it and in fact try to jump in with "Make in India".

srin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2033
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:13

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby srin » 04 Sep 2017 17:49

Javee wrote:XI is bringing his old and trusted friends in to the game,

General seen as Xi Jinping’s keen supporter named new chief of Chinese army’s ground forces

Han Weiguo, who played a key role in a huge military parade showcasing the army’s latest weaponry, has been promoted as commander of the PLA’s ground forces. The 61-year-old former commander of the Central Theatre Command made his first speech in the new role on Thursday, Beijing Daily reported. Han vowed to enhance battle readiness of the army and to ensure troops were loyal to the Communist Party, the article said.


-Source SCMP


The bolded part caught by attention. It is such a strange thing to say. It's like these sign boards that say "don't spit here". It's there because someone did before. I wonder what they aren't saying. Is PLA truly under the party and have they attempted a coup ?

Peregrine
BRF Oldie
Posts: 8441
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Peregrine » 04 Sep 2017 17:51

China stocks fall the most in 2 weeks, China Unicom tumbles - Reuters Staff

SHANGHAI, Aug 24 (Reuters) - China stocks fell the most in nearly two weeks on Thursday, as China Unicom tumbled after rallying earlier in the week as excitement over state enterprise reforms cooled.

Investors were also cautious as the Shanghai benchmark neared the 3,300-point-mark, a level that has proven to be a stiff hurdle with three failed attempts to breach it over the past nine months.

The blue-chip CSI300 index fell 0.6 percent, to 3,734.65, while the Shanghai Composite Index lost 0.5 percent to 3,271.51 points.

After a calmer morning session, sentiment soured as China Unicom extended its losses in afternoon trading, down nearly 7 percent at close.

The stock spiked by its daily limit of 10 percent on Monday and Tuesday, before slipping 0.9 percent on Wednesday.

The surge was triggered by a planned restructuring that would see the listed telecom operator tap a dozen major investors, including Alibaba Group, Tencent Holdings and Baidu, for funds.

“State-owned enterprise restructuring remains an attractive investment theme, and we have been looking for the next company that will likely undergo restructuring,” said Wu Kan, head of equity trading at Shanshan Finance.

Stocks fell across the board, with brokerage stocks pulling back sharply following the previous day’s gains. (Reporting by Samuel Shen and John Ruwitch; Editing by Shri Navaratnam)

Cheers Image

SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 24179
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby SSridhar » 04 Sep 2017 17:58

China clearly does not want a competitor and India is its only major competitor in the long run. It is already feeling the heat. We can compete with China in everything it does. That's its worry.

China will do everything in its capacity to undermine us. We should forever be vigilant on the Chinese front and be nimble and sure footed.

This is a tactical victory and definitely a turnaround in Chinese strategy.

We don't know what happened in the innermost discussions. Probably China sensed that there was opposition to its double-sided exposition of terrorism (running with the Pakistani hare and hunting with the SCO & CICA hounds). It also sensed that many countries have reservations over BRI. It sensed the mood and was forced to adjust to emerging realities.

But, like any other country, China would also not let it go. It is a revisionist power and would bide its time and place to strike back. We must be watchful. In the meanwhile, we must make every effort to 're-educate' the Chinese, borrowing the technique of Chairman Mao, even as we make full use of the Chinese retreat because, like Doka La, this is certainly a retreat. Long live the Chairman.

Javee
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2377
Joined: 13 Jan 2003 12:31
Location: NJ

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Javee » 04 Sep 2017 18:06

srin wrote:
Javee wrote:XI is bringing his old and trusted friends in to the game,


-Source SCMP


The bolded part caught by attention. It is such a strange thing to say. It's like these sign boards that say "don't spit here". It's there because someone did before. I wonder what they aren't saying. Is PLA truly under the party and have they attempted a coup ?


Search and download this PDF - Promoting “Young Guards”: The Recent High Turnover in the PLA Leadership (Part I: Purges and Reshuffles), written by Cheng Li.

Some tidbits,
Undoubtedly, a key component in this strengthening of both Xi’s personal power and his new administration’s authority has centered on the military domain. Xi has gone about the consolidation process through several important political and tactical moves, including the purges of the two highest-ranking generals under the previous administration on corruption and other charges; the arrest of over 40 senior military officers on various charges of wrongdoing; large-scale reshuffling of generals between regions, departments, and services; ongoing efforts to reform the PLA structure and operations; and, most importantly, the rapid promotion of “young guards” in the Chinese military.

....In spite of the political rhetoric claiming that the civilian leadership supervises the military, Guo Boxiong and Xu Caihou in fact controlled the personnel affairs of the People’s Liberation Army (PLA) for a decade (2002–2012). During that period, promotions among the PLA senior officer corps were primarily subject to the approval of these two heavyweight patrons. Guo and Xu seriously undermined the civilian leadership’s authority over military affairs during the Hu Jintao-Wen Jiabao administration

....In a widely publicized television interview in March 2015, three former PLA major generals revealed that Xu Caihou solicited 20 million yuan (approximately US$ 3.25 million) for the “sale” of the post of commander of a military region. Major General Yang Chunchang, former deputy director of the Department of Military Development at the Academy of Military Sciences, said that selling military ranks and officer positions
was a widespread phenomenon in the PLA while Guo and Xu were in charge

...It is apparent that Xi Jinping has decided to avert the same awful treatment that Hu Jintao and Wen Jiabao received from these two top military generals. In December 2012, one month after he became general secretary of the CCP, Xi emphatically claimed that the PLA should be “absolutely loyal to the party, absolutely clean, and absolutely reliable.

...A large number of protégés of Guo and Xu have presumably remained in power. In dealing with this challenge, Xi Jinping apparently has adopted the same method that Mao and Deng used to prevent military factionalism or even a military coup—namely, large-scale reshuffling of senior military officers

chanakyaa
BRFite
Posts: 1407
Joined: 18 Sep 2009 00:09
Location: Hiding in Karakoram

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby chanakyaa » 04 Sep 2017 18:35

RajeshA wrote:...
Should Trump enforce a stoppage of trade with China in any form whatsoever as an effort to address their trade imbalance or NoKo nuclear tests, we should support it and in fact try to jump in with "Make in India".

From YooS perspective, the trade deficit with China is a very good thing. All they do is create/print digital currency (i.e. a promise) at home, to pay for hard/material goods produced by their own companies in China. Compare that to India who needs to EARN dollars first, to pay the Chinese for products (trade deficit is even more painful). So far, YooS response to trade deficit with China has resulted in YooS companies getting more and more access to Chinese market. Expect such trade related threats (Border Adjustment Tax etc.) and DT shouting like Gobar Times to continue in the future. Chinese promptly respond by giving more access and the issue goes away from headlines. Chances are any stoppage are remote.

RajeshA
BRF Oldie
Posts: 15999
Joined: 28 Dec 2007 19:30

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby RajeshA » 04 Sep 2017 18:36

In the next days there would be many articles appearing in respected newspapers and other media outlets of ostensible adversary countries of China, say Japan, Korea, USA, UK, etc. which would try to make the case that there is a lot of tension and hostility between North Korean regime and China at the moment, eg. this article tweeted by Brahma Chellaney

Pyongyang missile footage is a dagger to Xi's throat

This is all, I think, just a standard ploy to put distance between the client and the assassin, just in case that any trade sanctions that Trump may contemplate end up biting China.

Bhookha-Nanga NoKo cannot pull this off on its own!

khan
BRFite
Posts: 830
Joined: 12 Feb 2003 12:31
Location: Tx

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby khan » 04 Sep 2017 18:38

Javee wrote:
srin wrote:
The bolded part caught by attention. It is such a strange thing to say. It's like these sign boards that say "don't spit here". It's there because someone did before. I wonder what they aren't saying. Is PLA truly under the party and have they attempted a coup ?


Search and download this PDF - Promoting “Young Guards”: The Recent High Turnover in the PLA Leadership (Part I: Purges and Reshuffles), written by Cheng Li.

Some tidbits,
Undoubtedly, a key component in this strengthening of both Xi’s personal power and his new administration’s authority has centered on the military domain. Xi has gone about the consolidation process through several important political and tactical moves, including the purges of the two highest-ranking generals under the previous administration on corruption and other charges; the arrest of over 40 senior military officers on various charges of wrongdoing; large-scale reshuffling of generals between regions, departments, and services; ongoing efforts to reform the PLA structure and operations; and, most importantly, the rapid promotion of “young guards” in the Chinese military.

....In spite of the political rhetoric claiming that the civilian leadership supervises the military, Guo Boxiong and Xu Caihou in fact controlled the personnel affairs of the People’s Liberation Army (PLA) for a decade (2002–2012). During that period, promotions among the PLA senior officer corps were primarily subject to the approval of these two heavyweight patrons. Guo and Xu seriously undermined the civilian leadership’s authority over military affairs during the Hu Jintao-Wen Jiabao administration

....In a widely publicized television interview in March 2015, three former PLA major generals revealed that Xu Caihou solicited 20 million yuan (approximately US$ 3.25 million) for the “sale” of the post of commander of a military region. Major General Yang Chunchang, former deputy director of the Department of Military Development at the Academy of Military Sciences, said that selling military ranks and officer positions
was a widespread phenomenon in the PLA while Guo and Xu were in charge

...It is apparent that Xi Jinping has decided to avert the same awful treatment that Hu Jintao and Wen Jiabao received from these two top military generals. In December 2012, one month after he became general secretary of the CCP, Xi emphatically claimed that the PLA should be “absolutely loyal to the party, absolutely clean, and absolutely reliable.

...A large number of protégés of Guo and Xu have presumably remained in power. In dealing with this challenge, Xi Jinping apparently has adopted the same method that Mao and Deng used to prevent military factionalism or even a military coup—namely, large-scale reshuffling of senior military officers


Thank you for this extract, a couple of thoughts:
1. In the age of internet & social media, transferring people around might not be as effective in killing off coup plots as it once was.
2. PLA doesn't seem to be in fighting condition today.

srin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2033
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:13

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby srin » 04 Sep 2017 18:43

On a closed totalitarian system like the Chinese have, it is natural for head of Govt to be suspicious about the intentions of head of military. On one hand, support of PLA is important to stave off coups, but on the other hand, stronger the PLA, the more the threat the head of PLA becomes. So, it is important for Xi to keep the PLA weak.

sudarshan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2544
Joined: 09 Aug 2008 08:56

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby sudarshan » 04 Sep 2017 19:06

srin wrote:So, it is important for Xi to keep the PLA weak.


How interesting. Per accounts, this was Nehru's fear too, regarding the IA, and he tried to keep the IA weak.

SriKumar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2059
Joined: 27 Feb 2006 07:22
Location: sarvatra

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby SriKumar » 04 Sep 2017 19:07

srin wrote:On a closed totalitarian system like the Chinese have, it is natural for head of Govt to be suspicious about the intentions of head of military. On one hand, support of PLA is important to stave off coups, but on the other hand, stronger the PLA, the more the threat the head of PLA becomes. So, it is important for Xi to keep the PLA weak.
This is very interesting. So Xi would prefer to keep the PLA weak in some sense. If true, that would be one big reason Xi and his PLC friends would not want to get into a war. Any war will necessarily mean that the military units have to be strong, i.e. more resources, troops, money to the army. Another thing is that during war everyone KNOWS that it is the soldiers and the generals doing the fighting, and get support from the (Chinese) citizens. This would show the army in good light defending the country against evil foreigners, further strengthening it. If the PLC/Xi is actually concerned about this point, they might prefer to not have a war.

A random thought:
Agree with RajeshA that the Indian consumer needs to be very wary of buying Chinese goods given the hostility of the nation. Part of the purchase price in any Chinese cell phone or electronics good is a PLA tax (10% perhaps?) that goes to funding the PLA. It is a double blow to the Indian consumer because he will pay an equal amount of money as tax to GOI to help raise/support another mountain strike corp, a new Brahmos unit etc. This would not apply only if the Doka Lam confrontation is the last hostile act between India and China for the next 20-40 years. So who believes that....?
I'll believe it when China 'vacates' Hambantota, stops its road-building in border areas, resolves disputes on Arunachal and Ladakh, stops military aid to Pakistan etc. etc. The GOI too must also make this a part of the policy to maintain (by one way or another) local players in critical areas like networks, power distribution etc. While all systems are hackable, there is no need to make it easy to hack by using foreign hardware. In addition, local know-how and capability are absolutely needed. Who knows who will come after Xi Jin Ping what the new leader will do.

pankajs
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14734
Joined: 13 Aug 2009 20:56

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby pankajs » 04 Sep 2017 19:34

I am not in complete agreement with the General as also wrt his previous piece but there is data that makes this an interesting read.

http://blogs.timesofindia.indiatimes.co ... ght/92091/
Part 2 of my column, “How will Chinese use of force in Doklam manifest?” -- Lt General H S Panag
where I intended to cover the operational strategy to deal with the crisis, has been overtaken by events. On 28 August mid day, we saw a rather tame end to the 74 days standoff at the Doklam Plateau.

The jury is still out on as to who “lost face”. In my view, China is unlikely to resume construction of the road towards the Zompleri Ridge in the near future, though it has not overtly committed to do so. Thus, even if Indian troops withdrew first, given China’s high pitch jingoist stand and India’s firm and cool diplomatic and military resolve, it is China that has clearly lost face. More so, when the world notes that Chinese unilateralism can be met with firm resolve rather than acquiescence.

In my last column I had highlighted the the likely contours of China’s use of force in Doklam. I had predicted a high technology attack in winter based on overwhelming use of precision guided munitions (PGMs) and Cyber Warfare to neutralise the likely Indian operational strategy of forcing the PLA into close combat over unfavourable high altitude terrain. Such an attack is defeated by hardened defences, deception, dispersion, kinetic / electronic shield, similar counter strikes and above all by preempting the enemy with an offensive.

While I am not privy to the actual military plans, it is my assessment that despite the limitations of the prevailing asymmetry, we adopted an operational strategy encompassing all or most of these aspects. The armed forces were mobilised under the deception cover of annual “operation alert” and offensive formations were poised or postured to pre-emptively threaten Sinche La (the PLA entry point into the Doklam Plateau) at the tactical level and threaten Yatung and Phari Dzong in the Chumbi Valley from west and the east at the strategic level. [Carefully note what he is saying wrt Sinche La and look at the 3D map to understand why this is important]

Similar operational strategy was put in place in Ladakh to preemptively seize the Kailash Range and areas across the Pangong Tso. The IAF and the IN were on high alert and prepared for a limited war. Our conventional cruise missiles and strategic assets were moved to battle locations. At the strategic level, diplomatically and militarily India acted like a mature emerging power and did a classic Sun Tzu, who said, that the acme of skill, is to win without fighting!

The ignorant may celebrate with or without the jingoist rhetoric that has become the characteristic of our political and public approach, but the wise will focus on the reforms with respect to national security and the armed forces. Let us face it squarely, India has a China problem which stems from the asymmetry in comprehensive national power. While the asymmetry in economic power will improve slowly, it is the asymmetry in military power which must be addressed urgently through a strategic approach rather than tactical responses to recurring crisis. Every crisis presents opportunities and we must seize the opportunity presented by the Doklam crisis. No two situations are alike and future confrontations may follow a different pattern. However, any future limited war or border confrontation will be hybrid in nature and use of high end military technology will be predominant. First and foremost the government must carry out a comprehensive strategic review with respect to all aspects of national security. This must be done and owned by the government.

There is no point in setting up committees and then sit in arbitration to pick and reject recommendations and initiate low end tactical reforms. A formal National Security Strategy must be laid down from which must flow the National Military Strategy and Force Development / Transformation Strategy. The latter must include structural and organisational reforms in the armed forces to focus on quality rather than quantity. Higher defence management and decision making must be stream lined. Appoint a Chief of Defence Staff and create tri-service theatre commands. The approach must be holistic and not knee jerk as is the norm at present.

Our biggest handicap vis a vis China is our border infrastructure. At present our state is only 30% of what is desirable. A national effort must be put in to to lay national highways to all our borders. The vacant places close to the LIne of Actual Control must be filled up with industry and tourism infrastructure. The more the civilian presence, the lesser the chances of conflict. If industry and population centres can be set up in Greenland and Siberia, why can not we do so in our high altitude terrain?

The transformation of the armed forces particularly in the field of high military technology must be completed in five years. The asymmetry vis a vis China in PGMs, cyber technology, surveillance, reconnaissance and target acquisition must be wiped out. The armed forces need anti missile shields based on kinetic and electronic systems. Our air defence capability needs to increase manifold.

Our defences stand out like sore thumbs, are no different from what we prepared a 100 years ago and are sitting ducks for stand off ground or air delivered PGMs. We need to create modern concretised tunnel based defences particularly in the areas of "differing perceptions". ITBP must be placed under the command of the army.

At the moment we have only a dissuasive defensive strategy to stalemate the PLA over unfavourable terrain and that too based on premises of previous wars. Our offensive capability has severe qualitative limitations. We need to develop a potent offensive capability to take the battle on to the Tibetan plateau. There is no point raising Mountain Strike Corps based on World War 2 organisations. For offensive in the Tibetan plateau we need motorised/ mechanised formations supplemented by aero mobile capability for air transported operations and logistics. Military stations must set up in the vicinity of the LAC both for offensive and defensive formations to keep them trained and acclimatised for war at short notice. Our capability to fight in winters needs to be enhanced. [This is the status of our offensive capability wrt the Tibet. It is inadequate to say the least and has been confirmed at least by 2 other source in the past 1-2 weeks. Jurno Nitin Gokhale and Former FS Sibal]

I have focussed on the army, but similar reforms are even more urgent for the IAF and the Indian Navy which will play a decisive role in a future conflict.

Our armed forces have been busy fighting a Fourth Generation War since 1990, arming and training to fight a Third Generation War with structures, organisations and operational strategy of a Second Generation War, and ignoring the high technology driven Hybrid War.

Despite our limitations, we have weathered the Doklam Storm, but now we must reform to bridge the asymmetry or we will bumble along from crisis to crisis fraught with apprehensions and uncertainty about the outcome.

chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 23558
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby chetak » 04 Sep 2017 20:14

UlanBatori wrote:In contrast, welcome to Putin was MUCH stiffer and more formal: car came up practically 20 yards from plane, and he was escorted past a line of bayonet-mounted cheen soldiers like American TSA. No jolly crowd of dancers, no laughter, no big friendship, just formality. All over in seconds. I loved the welcome for India far far more than that!


Maybe putin brought his own dancers on the plane :)

ldev
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2006
Joined: 06 Nov 2002 12:31

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby ldev » 04 Sep 2017 20:15

yensoy wrote:Putin got the Merc, the others got local Chinese FAW Hongqi limos https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FAW_Group#/media/File:Red_Flag_L5_Limousine_(18423546376).jpg which have glorious history with Chinese characteristics.


That is a Russian FSB Mercedes Benz S600 stretch that Putin is riding in. Depending on the country he is visiting he,like the US President, takes his own car(s) with him. The other leaders rode in vehicles provided by the host, China.

chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 23558
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby chetak » 04 Sep 2017 20:18

sudarshan wrote:
srin wrote:So, it is important for Xi to keep the PLA weak.


How interesting. Per accounts, this was Nehru's fear too, regarding the IA, and he tried to keep the IA weak.


Their "weak" and our "weak" are very different words; the PLA is not being deprived of equipment.

anupmisra
BRF Oldie
Posts: 8289
Joined: 12 Nov 2006 04:16
Location: New York

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby anupmisra » 04 Sep 2017 20:25

yensoy wrote:^^^^ I meant this is inaccurate. Poster seems to have confused Xian for Xiamen.


At 1:09, if you freeze the video, the signboard in the backdrop says "welcome to Xi...something something...in Hindi.

yensoy
BRFite
Posts: 1835
Joined: 29 May 2002 11:31
Location: USA

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby yensoy » 04 Sep 2017 20:31

^^^^ Shaanxi which is the province where Xi'an is located.

rsingh
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3439
Joined: 19 Jan 2005 01:05
Location: Pindi
Contact:

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby rsingh » 04 Sep 2017 20:49

chetak wrote:
UlanBatori wrote:In contrast, welcome to Putin was MUCH stiffer and more formal: car came up practically 20 yards from plane, and he was escorted past a line of bayonet-mounted cheen soldiers like American TSA. No jolly crowd of dancers, no laughter, no big friendship, just formality. All over in seconds. I loved the welcome for India far far more than that!


Maybe putin brought his own dancers on the plane :)


Me think it is NoKo nuke effect. He has lot of things to balance.

Peregrine
BRF Oldie
Posts: 8441
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Peregrine » 04 Sep 2017 20:53

Why China agreed to include Pak-based terror groups in BRICS declaration

BEIJING: China on Monday said that Pakistan-based terrorist outfits like JeM, LeT and the Haqqani network have been included in the BRICS joint declaration due to concerns about their violent activities in the region.

Defending the move to include these terror groups for the first time in the BRICS joint declaration, foreign ministry spokesman Geng Shuang said BRICS countries have "shown their concerns to the violent activities raised by these organisations".

"These organisations are all sanctioned by the UN Security Council
and have a significant impact for Afghanistan issue," Geng told PTI in a written response to a strong reference in the BRICS countries about these terror groups.

He, however, skirted a response to a question on whether the naming of Jaish-e-Mohammad (JeM) by the BRICS in which China is a prominent member marks a change in Beijing's stand of opposing the UN ban against the group's chief Masood Azhar.

"On the counter terrorism cooperation among the BRICS countries, we are very satisfied with the achievements made by the BRICS. We have a working group on terrorism," he said.

The 43-page 'Xiamen Declaration', adopted at the end of the five-nation BRICS plenary, expressed "concern" over the security situation in the region and the violence caused by the Taliban, ISIS, al-Qaida and its affiliates including Eastern Turkistan Islamic Movement, Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan, the Haqqani network, Lashkar-e-Taiba, Jaish-e- Mohammad, Tehrik-i-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) and Hizb ut-Tahrir.

This is for the first time China has agreed to include Pakistan-based terror groups in BRICS declaration.

In the last two years, China has stonewalled efforts by India and then later by the US, the UK and France to declare Azhar as a terrorist, stating that there is no consensus on the issue.

Cheers Image

srin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2033
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:13

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby srin » 04 Sep 2017 21:17

chetak wrote:
Their "weak" and our "weak" are very different words; the PLA is not being deprived of equipment.


So, why isn't Eleven afraid of it ? After all, a strong PLA should be a threat more to Xi than to China's adverseries. Even if he has put in his cronies, he can't expect them to not backstab him.

The alternative - that PLA is actually strong - is more interesting. That could happen if Eleven has been Sharif'ized, ie, there has been a background coup and he's just a puppet with PLA pulling the strings.

UlanBatori
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14045
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby UlanBatori » 04 Sep 2017 21:29

Eleven has elevated his 6th coujin from Xianmen where Eleven used to be Mayor, to head PLA. The bugger earned his collar running over kids in TianAnMen Square. So both have everything to lose if they lose control to democracy types. Partners in crime.

chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 23558
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby chetak » 04 Sep 2017 21:33

srin wrote:
chetak wrote:
Their "weak" and our "weak" are very different words; the PLA is not being deprived of equipment.


So, why isn't Eleven afraid of it ? After all, a strong PLA should be a threat more to Xi than to China's adverseries. Even if he has put in his cronies, he can't expect them to not backstab him.

The alternative - that PLA is actually strong - is more interesting. That could happen if Eleven has been Sharif'ized, ie, there has been a background coup and he's just a puppet with PLA pulling the strings.


The PLA is not weak in terms of operational equipment but it's generals are kept weak in influence/prominences in the politburo/central committee because of the influence their support may give to rivals of eleven.

Anantha
BRFite
Posts: 1351
Joined: 25 Mar 2002 12:31
Location: US

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Anantha » 04 Sep 2017 22:22

on a lighter note
Dhokhla maangoge to petha denge
par doklam maangoge to leta denge

UlanBatori
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14045
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby UlanBatori » 04 Sep 2017 22:38

It's really up to Trump now. If he hits NoKo, PLA is either going to look like idiots doing nothing, or have to commit very heavily on that front leaving no chance to try stunts in the Himalayas. So Eleven must be counting his beads and praying to MaoFucius or whoever commie capitalists pray to.

Peregrine
BRF Oldie
Posts: 8441
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Peregrine » 05 Sep 2017 00:24

Beijing may tell Pak to crack down on LeT, JeM: Top Chinese experts

BEIJING: China is likely to ask Pakistan to crack down on two terror groups, Lashkar-e-Taiba and Jaish-e-Mohammad, named in the BRICS declaration, two experts associated with Chinese government think tanks told TOI on Monday.
IMO : Methinks that 11 Ting a Ling will expect India to join BRI-OBOR-CPEC. INDIA BEWARE!

"From the declaration, you can say there is a visible change in China's stand on this matter," said Hu Shishang, director of the Institute of South Asia and South East Asian Studies in Beijing. There will be a QUID PRO QUO

"Of course, these are terrorist groups and must be listed (in the declaration). But there are more deadly terrorist groups like the one that killed two Chinese citizens in Pakistan recently. They should be listed as well," Hu said.

Asked why there was a change in China's approach to the issue, the Chinese foreign ministry issued a statement saying that the concerned organizations "are violent in nature" and have been "censured by the UN Security Council". However, it did not mention Pakistan in the brief statement.

"BRICS countries show their concern to violent activities of these organizations. These organizations are all sanctioned by the UN Security Council and have a significant impact on Afghanistan issues," the ministry said. Could might possibly mean that the Chinawalas are facing Uyghurs "problems" in Xinjiang!

Hu expressed concern about possible reaction to the decision in Pakistan.

"I think Pakistan will feel humiliated. It will feel cornered by the three guys — the US, China and India," he said, referring to US president Donald Trump's recent statement accusing Pakistan of sheltering terrorists.

"At this rate, China will find it very difficult to carry forward its anti-terrorism cooperation with Pakistan," he said.

China has repeatedly blocked India's attempts to get the United Nations to censure Masood Azhar, the head of the Jaish-e-Mohammed terror network.

Hu also said China will seriously consider accepting India's request for support in the UN on this issue. But though BRICS condemned Jaish, it did not mention its head, Masood Azhar. There is a also the possibility that Beijing will make a distinction and refuse to get Azhar censured at the UN, Hu said.

Ma Jiali, professor at the influential Communist Party School, said China will be more open to India's point of view on the issue.

"China will now be more open to India's views on the issue. "In future, China will consider all factors. If China thinks India's request is reasonable, China will support it at the UN," he said. Is it possible that China is desperate for India to join BRI, OBOR, CPEC?

BRICS declaration will be followed by some serious parleys between China and Pakistan on ways to tackle terrorists groups.

"After the latest development, China and Pakistan will discuss how to deal with the problem of terrorism in greater detail. They have discussed this issue earlier. But it's not enough. Now, after this declaration, China and Pakistan will discuss how to define and label terrorists," he said.

There have been problems about definition with some terrorists posing as religious leaders and the Pakistani government allowing them to get away with it. Beijing will now review this approach in defining terror groups.

Cheers Image

Peregrine
BRF Oldie
Posts: 8441
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Peregrine » 05 Sep 2017 01:53

May be the following Article throws some light on Eleven Ting a Ling wanting to "appease" Modi. Its not only BRI-OBOR-CPEC but that Chinawalas need Indian Hi Tech Talent :

India's high-tech talent better than European and US workforce: Beijing media

BEIJING: China has made a "mistake" of ignoring science and technology experts from India, Chinese official media said today, underlining that the Communist giant should attract high-tech Indian talent for maintaining its innovation ability.

"China has made the mistake of ignoring Indian talent, and instead has attached a greater importance to talent coming from the US and Europe," an article in state-run Global Times said.

"China has perhaps not been working hard enough to attract science and technology talent from India to work in the country," the tabloid daily from the group of ruling Communist Party of China which has been carrying articles critical of India almost on daily basis in recent months said in a rare positive write-up.

"Over the past few years, China witnessed an unprecedented boom in tech jobs as the country became an attractive destination for foreign research and development centres."

"However, now some high-tech firms are turning their attention from China to India due to the latter's relatively low labour costs. Attracting high-tech talent from India could be one of China's options for maintaining its innovation ability," it said.

Referring to reports that US-based software firm CA Technologies has disbanded its almost 300-person research and development team in China while setting up a team in India with some 2,000 scientific and technical professionals over the past few years, it said, "with a sufficient young talent pool, India is becoming increasingly attractive."

"China cannot afford to risk a decline in its attractiveness for high-tech investors. The nation is among the third echelon in cutting-edge technology fields and is working to catch up with the US and the result of its efforts will decide whether China will maintain its status as an emerging global economic power," it said.

China in recent year boosted the budget for technological innovation by allocating billions of dollars of incentives for start-ups and research firms as it witnessed decline of its labour force due to rapid increase in old age population.

China has carried out a lot of measures, including increasing research spending and creating a favourable investment environment for high-tech firms, to enhance its innovation capability.

"However, one issue has become increasingly prominent: The talent pool in China is not large and flexible enough to meet demand for the rapid expansion of innovation capability," the article said.

"In Silicon Valley, a considerable number of software developers working there are born outside the US. China should also strive to attract more foreign talent into the country as it aims to build itself into a world-class research hub," it said.

"A total of 1,576 foreigners were granted Chinese permanent residence in 2016, registering an increase of 163 per cent from the previous year. It seems that China is aware of the importance of tapping into international talent," it said.

Some reports claim that the cost of employing an Indian engineer is just half the cost of hiring a Chinese worker, which means Indians could see their revenue more than double if they came to work in China," it said.

"Some enterprises in Southwest China's Guizhou Province provide convenience for Indian talent in terms of housing, insurance and transportation and could enjoy a much better standard of living in Guizhou cities than in Bangalore," it said.

Cheers Image

UlanBatori
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14045
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby UlanBatori » 05 Sep 2017 02:34

Surprising. May be a sign of sharply deteriorating relations with US. Now that Syrian market is collapsing. ATGM sales could spike in East Turkestan.


Return to “Trash Can Archive”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 39 guests