Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

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SSridhar
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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by SSridhar »

If India draws up an arbitrary dashed line over a predominant stretch of the Indian Ocean, claims the whole stretch saying that the dashed lines and the very fact that the name itself suggested that the ocean and its riches belonged to it, that anybody doing fishing in this sea must get permission and adhere to frequently laid down Indian codes and periods of fishing, that any warship that passes innocently through the Indian ocean must identify itself to IN and clarify its purpose, that India would not recognize the EEZ or the CS of any other country if it falls within the India-claimed areas, that IN would smash the offshore structures of any other country in the Indian Ocean, that India would not adhere to any adverse ruling from UNCLOS, and generally indulges in such such other belligerent acts, then Indonesia and other countries would start renaming Indian Ocean *and rightly so*.

With over 40% of India’s growing exports to the US and all of India’s trade with Korea and Japan traversing the South China Sea, Indian concerns are very valid.

I don't know why we keep repeatedly revisiting this topic in spite of all explanations.
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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by yensoy »

shiv wrote:
SSridhar wrote: What is this school and why is Britain interfering in our education still? The school principal should have been sensitive enough to stop this even before the Education officer & ABVP intervened.
It is the job of the British council to spread British propagandu... Sorry to sound cynical.
I say don't kick them out. But restrict them to only cover STEM subjects, and possibly English language. Law, history, social sciences, political geography all out of bounds.
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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by pankajs »

vijaykarthik wrote:I can only offer convoluted logic - we are dealing with China here. Its no time for us to be "rational" as we have seen through their lies quite clearly. So, we need to make definite moves and ensure that media doesn't fall for the Chinese gibberish.

To put it differently: What gave China the right to pick Tibet?

Since its about SCS: Even India has a UNCLOS case and BD was a counter claimant. India lost the case and gave BD the rights that it was given by the ruling. China saw that too and then the UNCLOS ruling came up and China who is a UN permanent member openly defied the ruling which went against it. Where is the fairness there? If we need to kick a bully, we need to stand up to him individually and also support the smaller people the bully deals with. And allow time for eventual victory. The world doesn't have space for open bullies and we simply shouldn't give that space to them.
You still haven't' commented on the 2nd point. Perhaps you do not like Indonesian ocean instead of Indian ocean. Perhaps Indo-Indonesian ocean does not suit you.

The water body called "Indian Ocean" has Africa on the west just as it has India in the north. Would you accept it renamed as African Ocean? There are other suggestions "Asian Ocean", "Indo-African Ocean". There is far greater logic to the names I have suggested.

China's deviant behaviors in the South East Asian waters does not grant India any right to rename that water body neither does UNCLOS ruling and its flouting by China. Conducting regular patrol, etc is one thing this renaming business is quite another. Let the countries in the region decide what they want to call the seas around their coastline. It is their sea and it is their right to call it whatever they want.

Vietnam has asked help in offshore drilling, defense co-operation and that is going to help it fight the bully. Please let me know which country asked India to help rename waters off its coast.
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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by Dileep »

:idea: Tubelight moment!! :idea:

China isn't attacking yet, because they are trawling all the history books for the "reference design" of the attack to copy from.
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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by Prasad »

Kiren Rijiju‏

As per reports, river Lohit at Kibithu in Arunachal Pradesh is flowing in unprecedented water level 1229.88
Kibithu is upriver of Walong.
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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by deejay »

Dileep wrote::idea: Tubelight moment!! :idea:

China isn't attacking yet, because they are trawling all the history books for the "reference design" of the attack to copy from.
:D :D :D
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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by nits »

As per shatrujeet page on FB - https://www.facebook.com/shatrujeet009/

Not sure how well places are his sources
China & India reportedly beef up borders around Sikkim area. Reports of Chinese movement of DF-16 MRBM and HQ-17 Surface to Air missile - A copy of Russian TOR M1/ SA 15 "Gauntlet"
Also, 80 ~ Tents are set up near the standoff region on Chinese side possibly to accommodate PLA Reinforcements.
However these are officially unconfirmed reports.
====================================
Whereas the Indian Army has ordered the evacuation of a village close to the Doklam India-Bhutan-China tri-junction.
According to sources, a few hundred villagers living in Nathang village have been asked to vacate their houses immediately. Nathang is 35 km from the site of the two-month old standoff between Indian and Chinese troops.
======================================
Also, Bhutan has conveyed to the Chinese side, both on the ground and through the diplomatic channel, that the construction of the (motorable) road inside Bhutanese territory is a direct violation of the (written) agreements (of 1988 and 1998) and affects the process of demarcating the boundary between the two countries.
==================================
In the video posted below ,the 1st part shows the Chinese military movement ,whereas the 2nd part shows the Indian army troop movement.
Video Link - https://www.facebook.com/shatrujeet009/ ... 593139078/
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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by nits »

Iyersan wrote:
PS: Can somebody please put the comments of Twitter (Copy paste it). SOme of us don't have twitter access in office :D
Here you go - India's ORBAT on the China border. There's 1 div (XIV Corps) in Ladakh too - so 13 div in total - 180k troops!
Last edited by nits on 11 Aug 2017 13:06, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by Marten »

RE: The FB page. It's Chini rubbish being recycled as insider info. Came to the conclusion that the above gent is like one of many on Youtube who regurgitate videos with their taglines pretending to be the original source. The goal is to make money from ads. His sources are WA groups and other social media inc. twitter with folks sharing info that they need not.

Not one serving personnel in EC would dare shoot current convoy movement and share with family. Some SF videos that were shared were exceptional but that doesn't mean the chap is retd. forces.
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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by Manish_Sharma »

Chinese ballistic missiles inventory:

http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-PLA-Ball ... siles.html

http://tinyurl.com/ydbso883

Now taking higher numbers it comes to 1780 missiles in total.

Number of launchers is also there in chart.
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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by Iyersan »

Prasad wrote:
Kiren Rijiju‏

As per reports, river Lohit at Kibithu in Arunachal Pradesh is flowing in unprecedented water level 1229.88
Kibithu is upriver of Walong.
Does this have a tactical impact on military operations ?
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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by deejay »

^^^Both Orbat info and Shatrujeet info are plain wrong. IA has denied asking villagers to leave.

Kibithoo is the hill next to Walong on the same side as Walong ALG. Under the same Unit Op area.
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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by g.sarkar »

http://www.straitstimes.com/opinion/a-s ... an-century
Speaking Of Asia
A Sino-Indian clash could end the Asian century

Ravi Velloor

Several factors raise the risk of current border face-off between soldiers escalating into conflict
Writing in these columns exactly a year ago I drew attention to the deteriorating Sino-Indian relationship, my attention piqued by news that the Indian government had sanctioned for deployment along the China border a hundred pieces of the hypersonic cruise missile Brahmos.
The news leaks suggested the missiles would be tailored for mountain warfare, with "steep dive" capabilities. Since defence ministries rarely announce actual deployments, I took this as signalling that regardless of the superior infrastructure on the Tibet side of the border, the Indians had weapons to neutralise that advantage.
Sure enough, the People's Liberation Army (PLA) protested against the deployment of the missiles, saying it exceeded Indian defence needs and posed a "serious threat" to Tibet and Yunnan. I concluded my piece by saying that while all attention was focused on events in the South China Sea, the South Asian situation bears watching. Well, the nightmare flagged a year ago is fully upon us.
For the past seven weeks, a few hundred troops of the two armies have been standing eyeball to eyeball on a 3,300m-high plateau claimed by Bhutan. India says its troops arrived to help their Bhutanese counterparts prevent the PLA from constructing a proper road on an old dirt track.
Beijing, which seems to have had use of the track for at least a decade, says the Indians are intruding on Chinese land and must depart forthwith for any meaningful negotiations to start. New Delhi does not claim the area but says China's road-building threatens a narrow sliver of land that connects its seven north-eastern states to the Indian mainland. With India showing no signs of backing off, Chinese frustration and fury are growing by the day. This week, a commentary in Xinhua accused India of committing "seven sins" against Chinese sovereignty and international law. "These severe mistakes may trigger unpredictable consequences and greatly undermine regional peace and stability," it warned.
Separately, an editorial in the China Daily added that "the countdown to a clash between the two forces has begun, and the clock is ticking away the time to what seems to be an inevitable conclusion".
RISK OF MISCALCULATING
The Indian government's attitude so far to the shrill notes from Beijing has been the diplomatic equivalent of a yawn. Its main stock markets in Mumbai show nary a worry about the potential for conflict, having soared to record highs recently. Both New Delhi and Mumbai may be miscalculating. Perhaps, Beijing as well. For the "unpredictable consequences" it speaks of apply to all.
How so? A look back into history offers some parallels with the current situation.
The 1962 Sino-Indian war, which went badly for an ill-equipped India, took place at a time when the United States was preoccupied with the Cuban missile crisis. Today, the US, which treats India as a "major defence partner" with which it shares technology not available even to some Nato members, has its vision fixed on North Korea. There is little evidence that the Donald Trump administration is as invested in the India relationship as its predecessor administrations under Barack Obama and George W. Bush.
....
Another open conflict between China and India will end all prospects of an Asian century and will probably throw New Delhi fully into Washington's embrace. Fifty-five years after their last war, the 1962 loss continues to be seared in Indian consciousness. Another one would prevent a flowering of bilateral ties for at least a hundred years and the rest of Asia would suffer alongside.
Gautam
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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by Karthik S »

Nonsense dhoti shivering article.
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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by Manish_Sharma »

^its Ravi Vellore, of secular brigade. He talks of Brahmos as if we are escalating. What about Cheeni 600 ballistic missiles in North Dharamsala? Not to mention cj10s.

Gautam hi please mention author also.

This is what he wrote:

http://m.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20140424001370#cb
From the novelist Salman Rushdie, whose writings so angered some clerics that they issued a fatwa against him, to prominent thinkers, ordinary folk and leading and lesser lights in Bollywood, the phenomenon of Narendra Modi, the Hindu nationalist politician tipped to take power in New Delhi, looms large.

There is a sense that India is at a crossroads, that Modi, whose Gujarat state witnessed terrible anti-Muslim riots in his first term, may take India down an unfamiliar path which stresses one religion over the rest,
Truth is opposite, after defeat of China, the century of Asia will commence. China is artificially western chemical injected power, it's destruction due to side effects of steroids is imminent.
Last edited by Manish_Sharma on 11 Aug 2017 13:52, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by sudhan »

^^ You mean CJ-10? Brahmos was designated PJ-10 before the official naming..
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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by Philip »

Heard it from a v.reliable source.When XI Gins was here last.he desperately wanted to spend a night of passion with an Indian girl,but none would do so despite the huge sums he offered. He was very upset and wanted a quick immediate fix.So the Chin ambassador quickly found a most reputed sexologist in Delhi.The doc came to XI Gin's suite and examined him ,looking at his face carefully.He said,"drop your pants".XI Gins,was surplised,but did so.The doc said "turn around thrice",which he did."Ah! said the doc,I thought as much.You have Zackary Syndrome".Zackary Syndrome?" squealed the worried XI Gins,"what's that?" he asked.The doc. replied,"your face looks zackary like your a*se!"

Aporogies if any Chin lovers find it offensive,will be removed.
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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by Philip »

India isn't stealing all the islands in the IOR unlike China in the ICS and converting them into military bases.That's why both Indonesia and the Philippines have renamed parts of it as they've done.Moreover,the landmass adjacent to the ICA has been for centuries called Indo-China and Indian culture spread throughout Asia including China thousands of years ago.
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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by Manish_Sharma »

Ravi Velloor is NRam type guy. He is closest friends of nasirudin Shah, their sons study together in doon school.

Iirc he has written book on beef politics also.
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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by pankajs »

So we should encourage them to rename larger and larger portion till there is none left for with Chinese name. Call the large water body ASEAN or INDIA sea for all I care. We have no right to impose a name of our choice. When they are going against Chinese names would they stand for another name from outside? Only a bully imposes his dictates.

What we can do to show our support s to update our maps immediately to the choice made by these nations.

I am all for renaming in Tibet/POK. I am all for things like "Aksai Hind" instead of "Aksai Chin".

Edit: Correction. expansion.
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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by SSridhar »

g.sarkar wrote:
http://www.straitstimes.com/opinion/a-s ... an-century
Speaking Of Asia
A Sino-Indian clash could end the Asian century
I expected a much better article than that from the author. This has many holes.
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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by Manish_Sharma »

Are these velloor types lefties - commies - sickularists doing worldwide propaganda against Bharat on their own or its desperate China goading them?
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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by pankajs »

Check ATimes where this former Indian diplomat if you want the real Indian commie perspective. I would have expected such bile only from a baki. I am not going to post or link it here.
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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by Iyersan »

Doklam issue will be resolved peacefully: Bhutan Foreign Minister
https://www.outlookindia.com/newsscroll ... er/1121364

Its good to know that Bhutan is still maintaining its stance that Doklam is an issue
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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by Javee »

China, where anything is possible,
The addiction to Tencent’s hit mobile game King of Glory has reportedly spread from teenagers to young soldiers, which could jeopardize their combat capability, warned the People’s Liberation Army (PLA) Daily.
.. “There is certainly a security risk that can’t be overlooked. The game requires constant attention, but a soldier’s job is full of uncertainty. Once a soldier is cutoff from the game for an urgent mission, he could be absent-minded during the operation if his mind remains in the game :eek: ,” the PLA Daily warned.
-People.cn
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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by g.sarkar »

Manish_Sharma wrote:^its Ravi Vellore, of secular brigade. He talks of Brahmos as if we are escalating. What about Cheeni 600 ballistic missiles in North Dharamsala? Not to mention cj10s.
Gautam hi please mention author also.
Manishji,
Added the author too. Sorry.
Gautam
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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by Manish_Sharma »

No no sorry Gautam ji, it's good that these people are getting exposed.

Here is a good one exposing cheen:
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_ ... 2924719987
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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by deejay »

While this is not Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat, this news is definitely neutering Chinese social media FOE by Chinese CPC. CHina neuters China.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-chin ... SKBN1AR07K
China investigates top local social media sites in push to control content

BEIJING (Reuters) - China is investigating its top social media sites, including WeChat and Weibo, for failing to comply with cyber laws, the latest step in the country's push to secure the internet and maintain strict Communist Party control over content.

President Xi Jinping has made China's "cyber sovereignty" a top priority and has also reasserted the ruling party's role in limiting and guiding online discussion. Surveillance is being further tightened ahead of the 19th National Congress of the Communist Party later this year, when global attention will be on news coming from the world's No.2 economy.

Apart from Tencent Holdings Group Ltd's WeChat and Weibo Corp, China's Cyberspace Administration said it was also investigating Baidu Inc's forum site Tieba over failing to comply with strict new laws that ban content which is obscene, violent and deemed offensive by the Communist Party.

"Users are spreading violence, terror, false rumors, ***** and other hazards to national security, public safety, social order," the regulator said on its website.

Baidu said it felt "deep regret" over the content and will "actively cooperate with government departments to rectify the issue and increase the intensity of auditing".

Tencent and Weibo did not respond to requests for comment.
The Chinese will do anything for good global attention. Of course Global Attention here means Gora Attention.
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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by Baikul »

g.sarkar wrote:
http://www.straitstimes.com/opinion/a-s ... an-century
Speaking Of Asia
A Sino-Indian clash could end the Asian century

Ravi Velloor

..............Fifty-five years after their last war, the 1962 loss continues to be seared in Indian consciousness. Another one would prevent a flowering of bilateral ties for at least a hundred years and the rest of Asia would suffer alongside.
.....
Perhaps this gent has lived his life in the bent over position.

Perhaps from a young age he learned to turn around, pull his shorts down and offer his plump quivering delicacies to whoever cared to sample.

Why else would one concede defeat while even the possibility of battle, far less its beginning, remains a distant chimera.

Hack Thoo.
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Re: South China Sea - Part II

Post by SSridhar »

pankajs, nobody is imposing any name on anybody. Don't confuse the posters here with GoI. We are a democratic country and GoI does not fly trial balloons through members here. Only an official statement from GoI matters. I don't think that GoI has ever contemplated a name change like that.

The name change is an idea being seeded because China claims the sea based on its name. So, defeat that pernicious idea through a name change, is the thinking behind this. It could be Champa Sea or West Philippine Sea or North Borneo Sea or the East Sea or whatever-we-don't-care except the South China Sea.

For centuries, even up until a decade back, nobody was bothered by the name of that sea. It is only the Chinese behaviour based on their sense of entitlement that requires them to be disabused of that notion. You are talking as though all littoral nations of that sea voted to christen it accordingly and a 'bully' bunch of Indians are trying to change it. Countries from South Africa to Indonesia and Australia did not convene a meeting to choose the 'Indian Ocean' nomenclature. All these geographical names are coined at various time by powers that were dominant. That's all. By the way, Indo-China is also a similar legitimate (or illegitimate) term and calling the sea that is dominated by this area by the same name is no sin either.

The ASEAN which abuts the SCS will never unanimously agree to the name change because of the two stooges, Laos & Cambodia. This is a path to nowhere. Besides, that sea is for humankind, not just for China or AESAN alone. It is of global concern and as a responsible and emerging global power, India certainly has rights and interests in that area. Additionally, if Chinese history has to be the deciding factor, then the Champa, SriVijaya, Angkor and Chola histories have also to be similarly considered. In fact, there is no recorded history of Chinese trading voyages up until the 10th century. And it barely lasted four centuries. The dominant power in the 1st century CE in that region was the 'Funan' of the Mekong Delta. They were inspired by Indian culture, civilization, political system and even town-planning. It was the Suvarnabhumi.

China's trade voyages happened briefly between the 10th & 13th centuries only. Zheng He was idolized by Deng Xiaoping in 1984 for the first time with a clear eye towards annexing this sea. He also created an Underwater Archaelogical Heritage Centre in c. 1986 to claim shipwreck, porcelain & pottery with a view to covet it through unacceptable means. That's all China's claim to this area is. This sea was a vast trading hub for Indian, Arab, SriVijayan communities.

India has as much right, apart from the above, to challenge the SCS nomenclature because of China's behaviour with Indian floating assets on innocent passage through international waters of this sea. It has equal rights to suggest a a name change as the US Navy to conduct 'FoNOP' (Freedom of Navigation Operations) in these waters.

Anyway, what we are suggesting here is not to claim a faraway sea as India's. The drift is something else. Let's not stand on a moral high pedestal.
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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by UlanBatori »

UBCNews has announced that the Chinese threats to India have now gone down to No. 10 on the famous PeeAreF StratForum website, indicating that Indians are largely ignoring Chinese threats as noise and nonsense.

In Fact, "Be Indian Buy Indian" is way ahead of it, showing that Indians are getting tired of the Chinese.
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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by VishalJ »

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by ldev »

China and India on brink of armed conflict as hopes of resolution to border dispute fade
“The PLA will not seek to fight a ground war with Indian troops early on. Instead it will deploy aircraft and strategic missiles to paralyse Indian mountain divisions stationed in the Himalayas on the border with China,” a military insider told the South China Morning Post on condition of anonymity, adding that he believes Indian troops will probably hold out for “no more than a week”.

Another military source said that officers and troops from the Western Theatre Command have already been told to prepare for war with India over the Doklam crisis.
“There is a voice within the army telling it to fight because it was Indian troops that intruded into Chinese territory in Donglang [Doklam],” the second source said. “Such a voice is supported by the public.”

Both sources said that China’s military believes any conflict will be controlled, and not spill over into other disputed areas, of which there are currently three along the 2,000km border between the two Asian giants.
So the Chinese believe that they can wage a stand-off limited war against Indian troops at Doklam and thereby dislodge them.

Given below is the other side of the coin:
However, Indian defence experts warned that once the first shot is fired, the conflict may escalate into full-scale war. That in turn could result in New Delhi blockading China’s maritime lifeline in the Indian Ocean.
“Any Chinese military adventurism will get a fitting reply from the Indian military,” Dr Rajeev Ranjan Chaturvedy, a research associate at the Institute of South Asian Studies at the National University of Singapore, told the Post.

“Certainly, it will be detrimental for both, but if Beijing escalates [the conflict], it will not be limited. Perhaps, it may extend to the maritime domain as well,” he said.

“Certainly, it will be detrimental for both, but if Beijing escalates [the conflict], it will not be limited. Perhaps, it may extend to the maritime domain as well,” he said.

Macau-based military expert Antony Wong Dong said that both sides have underestimated each other.
“If the border conflict expands to the sea, it will be very difficult for the PLA to defeat the Indian navy, whose capabilities are much stronger after the purchase of the P-8A Poseidon submarine hunters,” he said.
And this viewpoint ties in with the IAF chief's statement asking his men to be ready for an intense 15 day war.
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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by Iyersan »

India enhances troop level along the entire stretch of its border with China in Sikkim and Arunachal Pradesh: Govt officials to PTI (1/2)
"Caution level" among the troops in the eastern sector also been raised: Officials to PTI (2/2)
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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by vijaykarthik »

Only question that comes to mind is what if this situation prolongs to 45 days. A short sharp and limited area skirmish vs a longer, bigger area battle are two different things.

KGS NightWatch suggests that the current warning from China about fighting with fire is a signal that they have decided to move on to a limited war. Looks like this warning came from a different media outlet (not Gobar Times)
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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by Iyersan »

vijaykarthik wrote:Only question that comes to mind is what if this situation prolongs to 45 days. A short sharp and limited area skirmish vs a longer, bigger area battle are two different things.

KGS NightWatch suggests that the current warning from China about fighting with fire is a signal that they have decided to move on to a limited war. Looks like this warning came from a different media outlet (not Gobar Times)
It came from South China Morning post
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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by UlanBatori »

I asked b4: Hu eej "KGSNightwatch"? Seems like a chinese microphone.
vijaykarthik
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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by vijaykarthik »

This is the guy that you are alluding to: https://www.kforcegov.com/products/nigh ... chdetails/
Iyersan
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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by Iyersan »

Is KGS worth the money?
rsingh
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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by rsingh »

What does INDIAN MRE (meal ready to eat) look like? There is no info on that.
Last edited by rsingh on 11 Aug 2017 22:07, edited 1 time in total.
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