Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

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chola
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby chola » 22 Jul 2017 16:23

This would be high comedy if not so real.

http://www.firstpost.com/india/cbi-finds-fake-chinese-parts-in-india-made-dhanush-gun-case-filed-against-delhi-company-for-conspiracy-3842579.html


CBI finds fake Chinese parts in India-made Dhanush gun; case filed against Delhi company for conspiracy


PTIJul, 22 2017 09:59:36 IST


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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby chola » 22 Jul 2017 16:39

fanne wrote:Chola sir, not convinced by 20:1 advantage. Thier land army is 2.5 times our in size. Not all high altitude acclimated, and not all against the Indian border, but they cannot be so less to give us 20:1 advantage. If anything, plaa has more men trained or can be aclimatized in few weeks giving them the advantage. Mountain warfare is different and with our mountain divisions and men we should score over plaaa plains army converted to fight in the mountains but their mountain divisions maybe as effective. In spite of your 20:1 advantage, I think if we dig deep enough ( hence my question to those who follow these kinds of stuff) the advantage could be 1:.7.
By its nature not big wars can be fought in these mountains and it is going to be slow with technology playing not that big an advantage. All these favor us. Moreover, Chinese can only win few more 1000 sq km, after that they have to step into Indian proper land where their supply lines will be heavily interdicted. Whereas we can win a million sq miles and logistically be in the same footing or better than the plaa. My take, given leadership and objective we cannot be taught a short lesson and long war is what China cannot win.
With tsp in the mix, jk is a possible play. Chinese gain nothing, tsp does, but I think we have decent advantage over tsp. We may or may not loose k but can severe sindh and Baluchistan (in case tsp army is concentrated in k, to overwhelm us they have to leave southern side unguarded). Tsp may gain k but would become a land locked country. Of course new clear detergent is not in play until now.


Sorry fanne but that is typical dhoti shivering. We fear so much that we overlook our local advantages.

Geo-politics means the PLA must maintain the vast majority of its men and material along their east coast which where their life and death strategic concerns lie. They must maintain force levels that allows it deal with the US, Japan, the Koreas, Vietnam and Taiwan. All of them far more formidable than TSP so think of how much we need on our western front against the pakis and multiply that five or even 10 times for what the PRC needs on their east.

I've posted multiple links showing these massive advantages but the mindset is that it can't be true. When you are discounting your own advantages, overwhelming ones in this case, you are afraid of winning not losing. Winning won't fit our narrative of being the victim.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby UlanBatori » 22 Jul 2017 17:00

pankajs wrote:The correct model is Afghanistan and not Vietnam. This time it will be *ordinary* Muslims fighting the godless to protect the *Citedal of Islam*.

With any luck half of Malloostan population will go there to fight this very halal jihad too.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby fanne » 22 Jul 2017 17:40

I am not Dhoti shivering at all. Looking for some deeper analysis. PLAA does have to maintain a higher proportion towards NOKO border, given that US fleet is there. In that sense their hands are tied (and maybe Modi trump are doing some jugalbandi). There the fight can easily escalate to bring in Japan and other players (not sure how/why Taiwan or Vietnam will join in). But discounting that (it is said that plaa is 2.2 million), I believe they have enough reserves in the indo-china border and ratio if at best we may have 2:1 advantage, and that's it (love to know more if you disagree, but please provide some detail unless this is just a hunch). Also there is nothing personal, nor you or I are going to decide if the war will happen, but being informed does not hurt.
I think more than the mere numbers, I suspect what Chinese have done is, they have neglected the indian border (except for blusters and some land grabbing) at the expense of fighting the war with the great seitan for Taiwan or NOKO or South China see. They are also under some restructuring along with RMA that is not yet complete, they are in more disarray than us. Most of their weapon that they have impressively developed could be great for east china, but maybe useless for the Himalayas.
We have prepared right for the 2.5 war (all RR battalion for the .5 war), new strike corp (this is also not fully raised though) and raised new formations in the last 10 years for these eventuality (is that right? I am saying from memory). Without going into details (twitter, chaiwalah and MSM etc.), This govt has been quietly preparing for it for the last 3 years - Objective, strategy, tactics, Intel and weapons (though big ticket items are surely lacking, but this kind of war they are not a big help, to overwhelm the PLAA from air you do not need more than 2 SQ of SU30MKI, they will do long distance interdiction, destroying, C4I centers, logistic choke holds etc. and we have these many). SO we may have an advantage, and it shows where we are calling the shots in the current standoff.
Also you do not expect Modi/Doval/Rawat combo to make a blunder and go unprepared. If you are following news, the IA and IAF and IN chiefs and other high level officials have been saying to its men that be ready for it. We have a plan, hopefully the strength to pull it through, where PLAA seams like us in 1962, just bumbling and rhetoric. I wont be surprised if the result of this standoff/war is just the apposite of 62.
Having said that, can someone give a little more primer, what are the fronts, men/division committed to that, logistic constraints etc. Please all from open sources.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Iyersan » 22 Jul 2017 17:41

shiv wrote:
Iyersan wrote:Sikkim standoff: India needs to stop looking for reasons why China won't up the ante
http://www.firstpost.com/india/sikkim-s ... 42891.html
Are we sleeping yet again

Could you explain how the article suggests to you that we might be "sleeping yet again"? Is that anxiety or contempt I detect in your query.

A mix of both compounded by the fact that we cannot fight a greater than 10 day war.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Mort Walker » 22 Jul 2017 17:49

Reports indicates that the IA has a 9:1 advantage on the heights. The key would be to stop any offensive coming from the eastern part of the Tibetan Plateau where it has better air and rail connectivity with lower altitude Chinese provinces. If in India we had significant domestic military production, then this situation would never have arisen. The Chinese would have backed off on their own knowing India can bring a lot of men and material to the theater.

What this whole episode teaches is that import purchases of offensive weapon systems must come to a halt. Weapon systems must be Made in India, albeit with imported engines and sensors. The Rafale contract needs to be cancelled and the Russian FGFA contract needs to be cancelled, and all plans to import another single engine aircraft needs to stop as well. Ramp up domestic production of the LCA-Tejas and Su-30MKI to 1000 in the next 3-5 years, and begin production work on the AMCA to something like a 4.5 Gen combat aircraft.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Mort Walker » 22 Jul 2017 17:57

fanne wrote:Having said that, can someone give a little more primer, what are the fronts, men/division committed to that, logistic constraints etc. Please all from open sources.


Start by watching Shiv-ji's videos on YouTube. He lays it out pretty clear. From there we need to look at Chinese ORBAT and PLAAF divisions. The Chinese western theater has at its availability of roughly 7 PLAAF divisions consisting of at least 70-120 combat aircraft each. They don't have heavy lift air cargo, but do have a well established rail and road link into the Tibetan Plateau.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby SriKumar » 22 Jul 2017 18:00

Iyersan wrote:Sikkim standoff: India needs to stop looking for reasons why China won't up the ante
http://www.firstpost.com/india/sikkim-s ... 42891.html
Are we sleeping yet again
I dont know how people writing such articles get printed (dont know the antecedents of First POst, or Bikram Bohra) but his first sentence alone kills all credibility in the article, that the govt is 'cheerfully oblivious' to the Chinese belligerence at the border. The guy is high on dope or what I dont know. Indian army has a very good handle on Chinese belligerence, and has been watching the borders and pushing them back for decades now (all in public domain). And has he forgotten how GOI/Modi responded to cross-border attacks by terrorists from Burma or Pakistan, or the current action at the LoC where Pakistan (yesterday?) summoned the Indian ambassador (or someone similar) to complain about LoC violations.....a telling sign they are feeling the pain...of body bags coming from the LoC.

We have to get our ducks in a row and stop looking for reasons why they will not up the ante.
I'll be charitable to him and say that he's in a dhoti-shiver mode and desperately looking for re-assurance from somewhere. Someone should invite him to BRF and have him read this and other threads. Poor guy will sleep better at night.

Added later: A cursory googling shows that he has published a lot of articles, over the decades. THe topics are all over the place (i.e. no specific focus on military or foreign affairs) and many/most of them seem to be about the 'hot issue of the day/week/month'. Many articles are on humor (almost like a 'Khushwant Singh-type' author).
Last edited by SriKumar on 22 Jul 2017 18:08, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Iyersan » 22 Jul 2017 18:05

How can procurement be expedited in case of a short war with china? Read a news clipping that vice chief given significant purchasing powers and bureaucracy avoided

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby pankajs » 22 Jul 2017 18:06

SSridhar wrote:
Bart S wrote:http://www.ndtv.com/opinion/how-india-can-get-the-most-out-of-china-by-varun-gandhi-1727511

Some portions of the article are quoted:

BJP should ask this guy to shut up.

That whole family is problematic, whatever branch it is, and GoI must have nothing to do with them.

And to think that he aspired to lead UP. I think he has already been sidelined .. no major role in the party or the government. Hopefully will be denied the party ticket next time.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Iyersan » 22 Jul 2017 18:07

Iyersan wrote:How can procurement be expedited in case of a short war with china? Read a news clipping that vice chief given significant purchasing powers and bureaucracy avoided

We should not stop of total victory. If push come to shove we must devise strategy to take back Akashi chin and free Tibet.
I know we don't have offensive capabilities as far as the eastern front s concerned. We have always been too Pakistan centric when the real (Near and present) danger was and is and will always be china. We need offensive capabilities on eastern front

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby pankajs » 22 Jul 2017 18:08

Iyersan wrote:How can procurement be expedited in case of a short war with china? Read a news clipping that vice chief given significant purchasing powers and bureaucracy avoided

IIRC the process was started like some 10 months back. We should start receiving stuff soon in batches.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby pankajs » 22 Jul 2017 18:10

Iyersan wrote:
Iyersan wrote:How can procurement be expedited in case of a short war with china? Read a news clipping that vice chief given significant purchasing powers and bureaucracy avoided

We should not stop of total victory. If push come to shove we must devise strategy to take back Akashi chin and free Tibet.
I know we don't have offensive capabilities as far as the eastern front s concerned. We have always been too Pakistan centric when the real (Near and present) danger was and is and will always be china. We need offensive capabilities on eastern front

GOI even under BJP/Modi is not planning on a major *offensives* anytime soon on the Chinese front. Provocation will invite robust response but nothing beyond that. Our posture has been and is defensive and will continue for the foreseeable future.

If the current border where *frozen* and provocation free Modi will gladly accept that and move on with his agenda on internal issues/challenges.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby SriKumar » 22 Jul 2017 18:25

pankajs wrote:We can't have it both ways.

IF we have the capacity and the b@lls to block Malacca we should be able to bomb block Myanmar Port of Kyaukpyu. If we don't have the b@lls to block Kyaukpyu we won't block Malacca.

How far is it from Bengal and Andaman bases?
And logistically and politically this would be easier to do. Military action at Malacca straits could impact many nations, not just China but friendlies too, however blocking Burma port would hit China only (and Burma, which can be managed/mollified). But I dont know how critical it would be for China to have an interruption on just the oil traffic. It is easy to pump more of it and create extra stockpiles of it ahead of a war (like how the US did in Afghanistan before being blockaded by Pakistan on the land route, for about 6 (?) months). China is probably stockpiling extra oil right now. So it might be the the commercial/trade shipping that would be more critical, and that would point to Malacca as being more critical, since it handles traffic from multiple Chinese ports.

I thought the statement/seminar by foreign secretary Jaishankar (2-3 weeks ago) from Singapore (of all places) could have been a signal to China that in the event of war Malacca straits (where Singapore sits) would see action. And that his trip to Singapore was also to talk to Singapore govt on this point, but it seems that this seminar may have been scheduled much before June 2017.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Suresh S » 22 Jul 2017 18:51

"The Godless,sh*worms of the PRC do not understand that this is where we receive our strength from,and that relying only their human strength devoid of spirituality ,will inevitably lose."

The best statement Philip. Sadly many Indians of today seems to have forgotten this very fact.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby fanne » 22 Jul 2017 20:18

LCA is not yet ready, however we wish it was and AMCA is no more real than the dream I had last night. SU30MKI can definitely be increased in number, but I suspect, there also some self inflicted wounds and some by mother Russia is making it not so great asset (50% serviceability?, suspect BVR capability).

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby fanne » 22 Jul 2017 20:19

Let me put it this way, IA is ready and eager to avenge 62, that counts for something. As deejay said, aao beta bahut marenge

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Bade » 22 Jul 2017 20:20

Without taking over PoK region (Gilgit-Baltistan) managing the overall Chinese threat will remain a continuing problem for India. This involves a real war, beyond just a slap on the Chinese wrist at Doka La tri-junction. Even settling this current issue in India's favor, does nothing to contain the threat on the north west front.

But solving the PoK conundrum, helps J&K integration, and even a possible Aksai Chin assimilation back to the state and other long term concerns like the usefulness of Gwadar base to the Chinese. It would be such a massive jolt to the Chinese, that they would put to rest their pipe dreams of access to the Indian Ocean region via land routes. Everything else is just a side show including Doka La, despite its immediate threat to the North east corridor. It is quite possible this front was opened to tie India down in the east, so as to not take any action on the J&K front and CPEC.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby shiv » 22 Jul 2017 20:22

Iyersan wrote:
shiv wrote:Could you explain how the article suggests to you that we might be "sleeping yet again"? Is that anxiety or contempt I detect in your query.

A mix of both compounded by the fact that we cannot fight a greater than 10 day war.

Anxiety I can understand. Contempt from an Indian if living in India puzzles me. Forgive me if you are not Indian or not living in India.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Bade » 22 Jul 2017 20:23

The advantage of a PoK limited war, is that the escalation to other areas of Indo-Pak border would be their calling. If China does not want to escalate Doka La any more than writing pithy taunts in their press, then why would they risk even more by getting involved there now...despite CPEC dreams. But once CPEC is built up, then the equation changes for them. Our job is to prevent that from happening in the first place.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Bade » 22 Jul 2017 20:32

Mort Walker wrote:What this whole episode teaches is that import purchases of offensive weapon systems must come to a halt. Weapon systems must be Made in India, albeit with imported engines and sensors. The Rafale contract needs to be cancelled and the Russian FGFA contract needs to be cancelled, and all plans to import another single engine aircraft needs to stop as well. Ramp up domestic production of the LCA-Tejas and Su-30MKI to 1000 in the next 3-5 years, and begin production work on the AMCA to something like a 4.5 Gen combat aircraft.


So absolutely true, as domestic production and its acceptance brings a confidence in self like no other can. The average public who sees the govt doing import after import of weapon systems, and the forces approving only of the same would naturally begin to question its self worth as a nation which can fight long wars...except in slow burn mode like insurgencies.

Sometimes even a hammer is useful to swat a fly, even if excessive. The best is to build in larger quantities what we know how to do already even if not an optimal solution. Nothing is optimal in war, it is not always a planned operation which goes 100% as envisioned at the start.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Mort Walker » 22 Jul 2017 21:15

fanne wrote:LCA is not yet ready, however we wish it was


It is more ready than the 300+ IAF Mig-21 and -27 which have reached the end of their useful life. We need 400 LCA Tejas now today! If there were 100 Tejas available to the IAF Eastern Air Command, on top of what there is now, the Chinese would not be spewing such vitriol.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Iyersan » 22 Jul 2017 21:15

What would be the outcome of Doval visit?
Have been reading conciliatory tone in Chinese media? Any opinions
Have heard also that Doval doctrine relies more on military than diplomacy
26 and 27 July will determine the next course

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Guddu » 22 Jul 2017 21:24

Bade wrote:Without taking over PoK region (Gilgit-Baltistan) managing the overall Chinese threat will remain a continuing problem for India. This involves a real war, beyond just a slap on the Chinese wrist at Doka La tri-junction. Even settling this current issue in India's favor, does nothing to contain the threat on the north west front.

But solving the PoK conundrum, helps J&K integration, and even a possible Aksai Chin assimilation back to the state and other long term concerns like the usefulness of Gwadar base to the Chinese. It would be such a massive jolt to the Chinese, that they would put to rest their pipe dreams of access to the Indian Ocean region via land routes. Everything else is just a side show including Doka La, despite its immediate threat to the North east corridor. It is quite possible this front was opened to tie India down in the east, so as to not take any action on the J&K front and CPEC.


If that's so, whats stopping us from capturing Chumbi valley first ? that should get the Chinese away from CPEC pronto., ie what you are saying can be applied in reverse too.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Bade » 22 Jul 2017 21:32

By all accounts so far, Chumbi valley is their weak point to retain, if India chooses to challenge them there. But strategically as of now there is perhaps less to gain for India holding that territory unless one needs to free Tibet. No such pre-emtive moves are foreseen. So the assumption is it can be taken when they challenge us. Immediate goal is limited to not concede the Doka La plateau to them.

Getting back PoK areas has a bigger implication for India, even for its internal security as in J&K. The rewards are more so to speak for the risk taken. It perhaps even raises the chances in the future for a full Tibet assault from both fronts without having to look over what Pak-China nexus is up to.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Trikaal » 22 Jul 2017 21:42

To all those hoping for a war with China, it won't happen. We didn't crush the festering wound Pakistan for 70 years. We allowed them to get away with outright attacking us 4 times. What makes you think that we will not only annex land from a far stronger adversary but also actually start a war. When have we started a war with a foreign adversary in history ? You think that now, when India is all set to take off in growth that we will risk the damage and uncertainty of war ? That is just wishful thinking.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Bade » 22 Jul 2017 21:49

But that should not stop India from doing a reverse salami slicing of the border areas. That can still happen under the empty threat of war, just as the Chinese are doing to us. This can happen all around the Chumbi valley region itself, along the Bhutan side.

We have troops stationed in Sikkim anyway and can supply them through the year, so it is even much easier than in Siachen to play this game. The terrain though rugged is not as hostile like at Siachen for sure. Keep playing Kabbadi with them forever. :mrgreen:

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Iyersan » 22 Jul 2017 21:54

Third Dash wrote:To all those hoping for a war with China, it won't happen. We didn't crush the festering wound Pakistan for 70 years. We allowed them to get away with outright attacking us 4 times. What makes you think that we will not only annex land from a far stronger adversary but also actually start a war. When have we started a war with a foreign adversary in history ? You think that now, when India is all set to take off in growth that we will risk the damage and uncertainty of war ? That is just wishful thinking.

Gandhian principles must be done away and replaced by more aggressive ones. We have to follow Israel.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby g.sarkar » 22 Jul 2017 21:54

Peregrine wrote:
g.sarkar wrote:This may be good news for us. Pakistan is not going to be docile like Tibet, with encouragement it may be Lizard's Vietnam. A slow boiling pot will consume a lot of lizard resources and the US may even play an active role.
Gautam
[g.sarkar :
Sir Ji, with due respect and reverence the Clapistanis will - as JEM Ji stated - will Chop Off their Nuts to spite their Dicks (or similar words).
Just as the Islamic Countries are IMPOTENT in respect of the Chinese effort to cleanse the Muslim Uyghur in Xinjiang - not a "Dickie Bird" from the Two Bastions of Islam i.e. Sunni Saudi Arabia and Shiite Iran similarly Clapistan will even Eat their Morning Evacuation AS LONG AS THEY CAN HURT INDIA IN GENERAL AND HINDUS, JAINS AND SIKHS IN PARTICULAR!
You can take that to the Bank.
Cheers Image

That is true. But Pakistan under Chinese control will have a Chinese foreign policy, taking care of Chinese interests. The Generals will salute to Chinese diktats. The local warlords will have to be disarmed and obey. The situation will be more like Afghanistan but more unruly and violent if that is possible.
And the generals, they will take their payoff and leave for the western countries.
Gautam

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby sanjaykumar » 22 Jul 2017 22:06

Third Dash wrote:To all those hoping for a war with China, it won't happen. We didn't crush the festering wound Pakistan for 70 years. We allowed them to get away with outright attacking us 4 times. What makes you think that we will not only annex land from a far stronger adversary but also actually start a war. When have we started a war with a foreign adversary in history ? You think that now, when India is all set to take off in growth that we will risk the damage and uncertainty of war ? That is just wishful thinking.



India didn't crush Pakistan not because of the strong mustachioed Punjabi army men in the PA, but because of American backing.

India did in fact launch a war on Pakistan, and created a new nation.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Vivek K » 22 Jul 2017 22:16

India CANNOT crush an opponent because of limited supplies of ammunition etc. To fight short wars imported stores are ok. To fight and crush an opponent - you need local production and replenishment of ammo and munitions.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Iyersan » 22 Jul 2017 22:19

https://mobile.twitter.com/s_navroop/st ... 0619278336
Shocking CAG report in detail in public domain

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Trikaal » 22 Jul 2017 22:22

sanjaykumar wrote:
India didn't crush Pakistan not because of the strong mustachioed Punjabi army men in the PA, but because of American backing.

India did in fact launch a war on Pakistan, and created a new nation.


That is just apologetic excuses. We were just as much American darlings till 1965. In 1998, again Pakistan got away with invading India. And what US backing ? The only time US actually threatened to enter war on Pak side is the time when we actually got something done. What more would US do that it didn't do at the time of India hater Nixon when his ally was cut in half.
Also, I never said it was because of paki soldiers. The reason is complete lack of political will on our side.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Trikaal » 22 Jul 2017 22:30

Also, I suspect we wouldn't have done anything in 71 too if Pakis weren't killing Bangladeshis like dodos, millions of Bangladeshis weren't running to india and Bangladeshis themselves weren't willing to fight their own war. Everytime the question of political will comes up, Indian leaders fail. Nehru wet his pants when we were winning a war and then again in 62. Shastri let Pakistan go after grabbing them by the balls, not only returning their land but also not asking for pok. This was again repeated by Indira Gandhi in 71. We held all the cards but what we got was the shimla treaty. Bhutto pulled off the biggest negotiation victory in the world. Finally, vajpayee didn't have the balls to cross loc after Pakistan held our land for months. Do u know that Pakistan still hold 1 peak from that time that we haven't freed and makes Kashmir road vulnerable? With these kinds of leaders, people here are hoping for a preemptive attack ! India won't fight unless war is thrust upon us
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Bade » 22 Jul 2017 22:32

If CPEC is purely economic play as China claims, then it should not have no problem if India takes over PoK and collect tolls for the corridor. ;-)

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Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Peregrine » 22 Jul 2017 22:39

Peregrine wrote:g.sarkar Ji :
Sir Ji, with due respect and reverence the Clapistanis will - as JEM Ji stated - will Chop Off their Nuts to spite their Dicks (or similar words).
Just as the Islamic Countries are IMPOTENT in respect of the Chinese effort to cleanse the Muslim Uyghur in Xinjiang - not a "Dickie Bird" from the Two Bastions of Islam i.e. Sunni Saudi Arabia and Shiite Iran similarly Clapistan will even Eat their Morning Evacuation AS LONG AS THEY CAN HURT INDIA IN GENERAL AND HINDUS, JAINS AND SIKHS IN PARTICULAR!
You can take that to the Bank.
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g.sarkar wrote:That is true. But Pakistan under Chinese control will have a Chinese foreign policy, taking care of Chinese interests. The Generals will salute to Chinese diktats. The local warlords will have to be disarmed and obey. The situation will be more like Afghanistan but more unruly and violent if that is possible. And the generals, they will take their payoff and leave for the western countries.
Gautam
g.sarkar Ji :

As such India must strengthen, indeed, SEAL her Border with Clapistan so that INDIA DOES NOT FACE 100 Million - if not more - Clapistanis fleeing an unstable Clapistan just as the Afghans fled an unstable Afghanistan to Clapistan.

Please note that as per the following Article the Clapistani Population is now 300 Million :

Pakistan unable to control population growth despite huge spending - Daily Times 11-07-2017

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ldev
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby ldev » 22 Jul 2017 22:57

https://twitter.com/IntelCrab/status/888784097203671040

The Intel Crab‏ @IntelCrab 2h2 hours ago
More
Replying to @IntelCrab
Footage was taken along state route 109 which runs from #Beijing to #Lhasa. (Credit to 南越楚卿少校 on @SinaWeibo)


Don't know if real or mere posturing and propaganda.

nam
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby nam » 22 Jul 2017 23:10

The CAG report on OFB annual production is fascinating.
Despite all the screams about shortages, the target for 155MM is 50k/year. I30MM meet the target in 2015, slowed down last year.

No numbers on 105, which is the most used.

The most interesting is tank rounds. The target is zero for 125MM sabot rounds! We don't produce any 125MM sabot!. 120MM sabot only 2k. This must be for Arjun,but that is less than 20 rounds per deployed 124 tanks! Really does not make sense.

Either OFB is waiting for 125 & 120 MM MK2 production or we are importing them. 125MM probably from Israel and Russia. But 120MM, from where? I have a feeling Arjun can fire 120MM Israeli round.

The most troubling is the fuze production.

All in all, I think this has been released to make way for some OFB cleansing. I remember a newsreport on PMO asking for OFB targets and production rates. This is what such a report might look like.

Iyersan
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Iyersan » 22 Jul 2017 23:32

China’s educated youth on Weibo couldn’t care less for Doklam stand-off
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/worl ... 716896.cms

India psyops

DrRatnadip
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby DrRatnadip » 22 Jul 2017 23:44

China under pressure as Trump gives US navy more freedom in South China Sea

BEIJING: US President Donald Trump approved a plan giving the country's navy greater freedom in operating in the South China Sea and put pressure on China's efforts to enlarge its military presence by artificially building reefs and atolls in the area.
The move is seen as a challenge to Beijing's maritime claims over most of the South China Sea and its attempts to overrule overlapping claims by five other countries, Vietnam, Malaysia, Indonesia, Brunei and the Philippines.
http://m.timesofindia.com/world/china/c ... 716369.cms


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