Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

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shiv
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby shiv » 30 Jul 2017 18:09

India has a separate India-Myanmar-Bangkok rail system which has already started - afaik

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby UlanBatori » 30 Jul 2017 18:44

IndraD wrote:One little pooch from gaarus here..when ever Cheen passes another technology to NoKo promptly displayed by NoKo through tests, US flies some fighter jet sorties over Korean peninsula. What for? Who cares for US flying planes any where? Neither China nor NoKo pay 2 hoots! Why this useless exercise who is audience here?


That is to see if there are actually scorch marks on the ground, sulphuric/nitric acid in the air etc. Having seen as may PhotoShopped antigravity achievements from China as we have, birather, wouldn't you try to get independent confirmation, hain? 8)

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby chanakyaa » 30 Jul 2017 18:51

IndraD wrote:One little pooch from gaarus here..when ever Cheen passes another technology to NoKo promptly displayed by NoKo through tests, US flies some fighter jet sorties over Korean peninsula. What for? Who cares for US flying planes any where? Neither China nor NoKo pay 2 hoots! Why this useless exercise who is audience here?

All in the name of expanding military bases in SoKo and JP. In countries such as SoKo and JP, where land is constrained, unless the people are made sh!t scared, governments will never allow phareign powers to keep expanding military bases. So, what you do is every time NoKo displays a new toy, hype it through MSM, and convince the governments that, remember that new military base request submitted 5 years ago, must be approved.

New $11 billion base in South Korea as North Korea missile program intensifies

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby kit » 30 Jul 2017 19:06

looks like the US wants to preserve the status quo with N Korea along with the Chinese . useful as SK and Japan will be calling for help from uncle occasionally !!! .. why waste that leverage :roll: . They had bombed the Iraqis to stone age on imaginary "weapons of mass destruction" when NK goes from nuke bombs to ICBMs :shock: . Take the trumpers antics with a pinch of salt ..or he doesn't quite realise what his left hand is doing !! :mrgreen:

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby kit » 30 Jul 2017 19:10

So the great game of geopolitics is between China and US essentially with most of other nations getting kicked and slapped occasionally.. India recently graduated from that club to second league :rotfl:

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby DrRatnadip » 30 Jul 2017 19:26

http://idrw.org/two-c-130j-aircraft-arr ... f-station/

Two C-130J aircraft arrive at Bengal IAF station

While the standoff with China continues in Doklam, the Air Force Station at Panagarh in Bardhaman district of West Bengal has got its first set of the U.S.-made C-130J Super Hercules multi-skilled transport aircraft. Two of these aircraft manufactured by Lockheed Martin have arrived recently, while the station — named after Marshal of Air Force Arjan Singh — is awaiting the arrival of four more within a month. The six medium-lift capability C-130Js will complete the first squadron of such aircraft in eastern India. Senior Defence Ministry officials did not want to connect the arrival of the aircraft with the Doklam standoff, and described it as the “fruition of an old plan”. The giant aircraft are described as one of the finest transport aircraft which can perform many duties simultaneously. The fuel-efficient aircraft can carry up to 40 tonnes; can move faster; and provide between crew comfort than the Ilyushin-76 (IL-76), a Russian-made aircraft the Air Force had been using for a long time. While the IL-76 could also carry 40 tonnes, it was a “fuel guzzler”, a senior Army official said. The C-130Js will be used by the Special Forces and a division of the Mountain Strike Corps, recently raised by the Army. The Corps has two divisions, instead of the usual three, with a strength of 80,000 personnel. One of the divisions will be stationed at the Panagarh station once it is fully raised. The first squadron of C-130Js was stationed at the Hindon airbase in Ghaziabad and performed its first landing exercise in 2013 at the Daulat Beg Oldi military base in Ladakh, adjacent to the Chinese border.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby SriKumar » 30 Jul 2017 19:35

shiv wrote:
AdityaM wrote:

A beautiful lesson in why dhoti shivering is counter productive especially in dealing with pompous oiseaules like the ChiComs


Nice video, makes a good point about needing to have confidence in the ability of India and Indian armed forces to counter China. But there are 2 points in the video that I think are incorrect and problematic.

One thing he mentions that there is no need to boycott Chinese goods. Does he not realize that Indian consumer purchasing Chinese goods allows them to fund their war fighting capability. Yak-herder ulanbatori posted some figures in a previous post which showed that atleast one aircraft carrier would be funded by such a trade. The message should get out to the janata at large that buying Chinese goods funds their economy, which funds their war effort. If China wants peace with India, then it is different.

Another thing he mentions is 'will Indian troops fight for people who do not have confidence in them'. Something to the effect of 'un pe confidence nahin hogi tho kya khaak ladenge'. Shows that Naveed saab has no idea. IA is going fight Chinese aggression whether some Ram/Robert/Rahim in Jhumri Talaya has confidence in them or not. They will execute the will of the President of India irrespective of the horseshit posted in facebook/WA/desi media or in 'The Gobar Times'. But I understand the point he was trying to make.

On a different note, an extended stalemate is not a bad thing, IMO. This episode has brought to fore very publicly, the threat posed by China. Now the aam abdul/abhishek/azhagappa is aware of what can happen. With the threat that is hanging, and the dhoti-shivering (among some sections) this is an opportunity for GOI to fix things in MoD/PSU sectors, to rework processes, fix unending timelines and not get pushback.
Last edited by SriKumar on 30 Jul 2017 19:56, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby BSR Murthy » 30 Jul 2017 19:38

shiv wrote:I don;t do this often - i.e. posting the same thing on a 3rd thread..
http://blogs.timesofindia.indiatimes.co ... ese-tanks/
blogs.timesofindia.indiatimes.com
Debunking the hype on Chinese tanks
Lt General K J Singh


"Chinks in Chinese armour!"
:rotfl:

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby SriKumar » 30 Jul 2017 19:54

UlanBatori wrote:Sure there are hundreds of millions of very hard-working people in China but I wonder how many honest people can be left there. Maybe breaking rocks in the Gobi, or slaving in sweatshops run by the PLA.

OT but this is a very interesting point. If one wants to be honest/principled, but if one operates in an environment where colleagues lie/cheat/steal to get ahead, the choice is to either can stay honest and poor and watch the crooks get ahead in their careers/businesses, or join the crooks (e.g. bribe-taking in gorment offices). I suspect people who want to stay honest will hold out for some time, see the futility and then go with the flow. THere may not be a lot left who can see reality for what it is.

I once ran into someone who's son did business in India and China. He said that in China, if you forgot your briefcase in a someone's office or in your hotel room, you could expect people to open it and go through it and check out its contents. Hotels especially.
Last edited by SriKumar on 30 Jul 2017 21:25, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Singha » 30 Jul 2017 19:57

The jakarta to bandung hsr around 120km is another toehold play.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Karthik S » 30 Jul 2017 20:04

ldev wrote:
shiv wrote:knowing Chinese perfidy I expect that they would make a grandiose project like CPEC and do a short local city to city stretch to get a toehold, get the nation in debt and then do what they want after that.

AFAIK, they are doing something similar in Thailand, building a HSR from Bangkok to the Laos border for now and then separate projects in Laos, with the objective of ultimately tying it all these separate pieces together to the Chinese HSR system.



We missed the Thailand bus. It's a Buddhist country with strong hindu undertones and a jihadi problem. We should have made them our ally before China.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby sudarshan » 30 Jul 2017 20:14

An African friend of mine studied in India for some years. Then he joined a shipping company and sailed around the world. He's called in ports all over the world, including of course, China. In shipping, you can't avoid China. Ships are made there, there is a large volume of shipping traffic, and everybody makes a beeline to China.

This friend told me once - "I have seen corruption in India. It is horrible. But trust me, China is way more corrupt. There is no comparison. I'd rather deal with Indian corruption any day than Chinese."

And this guy didn't study in just any place in India, he studied in Calcutta, which would rank close to the top, if not the top, on the corruption scale (no offense to anybody).

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby pankajs » 30 Jul 2017 21:19

And before I forget again ... was posted before. Release by the Chinese pretty early in the standoff. After studying the maps posted earlier this image makes sense.

Image

The horizontal red line is the top of the ridge at/around Doka La pass. The dozers are rolling downhill confirms some report that talked about India having deployed 2 dozers to dig up the road extensions. Also, means that we have a fairly good motorable road to the top of the Doka La pass on our side. The photo also shows the kind of approach/gradient to the pass. The gradient is not too steep obviously otherwise it wouldn't make for a pass.

I can make out 2 structure at the top of the ridge perhaps on the Indian side.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Javee » 30 Jul 2017 21:53

Eleven ping's strategy is slowly unraveling, whether it will come to fruition or not is a complex chain of events and India action in Doklam is currently a threat in his path.

Ahead of the parade, a write-up in Study Times, a top publication of the CPC party school, unequivocally highlighted Mr. Xi’s “strong leader” characteristics, echoing the footfalls of iconic leaders Mao Zedong and Deng Xiaoping.

The publication credited Mr. Xi with personally marshaling China’s assertive approach to disputes in the SCS and the East China Sea. “[President Xi] personally steered a series of measures to expand [China’s] strategic advantage and safeguard the national interests,” the editorial observed.

.... Unlike previous occasions, the troops on Sunday shouted, “Salute to the Chairman” as Mr. Xi passed by them. The standard greeting on previous occasions has been, “Salute to the Chief”.


http://www.thehindu.com/news/internatio ... epage=true

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby rsingh » 30 Jul 2017 22:17

From Hindu
China has “the confidence and capability to defeat all armies that dare to offend”, he said, adding that the military should be “unswervingly loyal” to the ruling Communist Party and “extend the battleground to wherever the party points towards.”

Two things:
Where in the world do you see that President of the country begging army to be loyal to governing party? What they are afraid of? one hear such things in Somalia or CAR , that Prime Minister or president requesting for loyalty of Army.
Secondly , an army that fought last battle in 1979..............can defeat all armies of the world. That is the joke of day. They are becoming joke in world without knowing.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby vasu raya » 30 Jul 2017 22:29

deejay wrote:Why would the soldiers be ineffective?
The soldiers would be ineffective because they are not "acclimatized". Unlike trekkers for whom acclimatization is a 02/03 process at the most, soldiering needs about six months. In between they will relearn mountain warfare, use of weapons in the terrain of deployment, exploiting the lay of the land, etc. All this takes longer in you are higher up. Despite strong presence in Tibet, the PLA has little presence south of Tsang Po or other river valleys flowing east just north of the Himalayan ridgeline. While the PLA in Tibet is well versed in High Altitude conditions (or so I assume) - mountain warfare and valley issues are different and will need retraining or acclimatization.


This area between the Himalaya foothills and the Tsangpo river seems to be a good buffer zone to stop these pinprick incursions be it Depsang La or Chumar in the future, with only a set of bridges to support infantry action the Chinese seem to keep themselves to the other side of the rivers.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Deans » 30 Jul 2017 22:43

In Sri Lanka's unexpected push back for the port project, China faced something they do not understand and did not factor in - Democracy.
China's OBOR policy has simply been to bribe the dictator/ supreme leader/ field marshal of the recipient country, by appealing to his personal
interests and not that of the country. When people of that country decide that the OBOR project is not viable, or carries too much risk , the Chinese don't know how to react. The most serious risk to Chinese overseas investments, is democracy breaking out all over Africa and ageing dictators of Central Asia dying. It is relatively easy for us to stir up trouble among the people in OBOR countries - send a delegation of MP's (include the communists, Arundhiti Roy types), get their MP's to India, publish articles etc.
Last edited by Deans on 31 Jul 2017 09:01, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Gyan » 30 Jul 2017 23:03

Rudraksh wrote:
ldev wrote:One other issue to consider is whether to trade and how to trade with China when there are at the same time boundary/security issues with the country. Other countries apparently co-exist with China with ongoing boundary/security issues and booming trade all at the same time. Consider Taiwan, Japan, the ASEAN bloc and the US with all of whom China has major security issues and yet trade continues to grow exponentially. I think India has to do a very cool headed assessment of the benefits/downsides of trade with China with ongoing/concurrent boundary confrontations. Because of the deep seated Zhonggou belief in the Chinese, I really wonder whether even the threat of punitive trade sanctions will have any effect on Chinese behavior. And at the present time of total Chinese exports of ~2.3 trillion, only about $60 billion go to India, about 2.5%. The sting of course is the potential for the growth of these exports and being locked out of the Indian market. And so the Indian assessment has to be rational and not emotional. China is quite able to have a boundary dispute whether on land or sea with a country and have a booming trade relationship with the same country at the same time. I think present GOI with Modi is quite adept at doing the same, after all Modi is not a Gujju for nothing!!


That figure is not correct. The Chinese exports to India will be north of $100 billion. $60 billion is just the invoiced value, rest of the money is routed via hawala. Even lowly importers sitting in tier 2 cities are doing this. God knows how. Almost everything you use these days is made in PRC, even if it says otherwise! If all Chinese imports are imported by paying due custom duties, 90% will become non viable. Indian made items lose out to Chinese only because of this loop hole.


Lots of imports from China are underinvoiced by 10 times 1000%

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby pankajs » 30 Jul 2017 23:53

Once you have every sale recorded on the GSTN there is no escaping.

http://www.livemint.com/Politics/XvlFMq ... ports.html
GST to help in checking of under-invoicing of imports
New Delhi: Tax authorities will be able to detect and crack down on under-invoicing of imports, typically used to evade payment of customs duty, more effectively under the goods and services tax (GST) regime being pushed by the centre.

This is because the tax authorities will be able to track the sale prices of imported items with the help of the goods and services tax network (GSTN), the information technology backbone of the proposed GST regime, and check if the importer under-declared prices.

This will enable the Central Board of Excise and Customs (CBEC) to match the import price and the sale price and check tax evasion.

GST, a destination-based tax, will create a trail of different transactions. At every level, traders will have to register invoices to claim input tax credits. In addition, the entire process will be online, with the help of the IT infrastructure. The integration of state and central indirect taxes will also provide a comprehensive profile of taxpayers.

At present, no comprehensive database is available with the tax authorities on the prices of various commodities that are imported. But a GST network, wherein all the data on sale transactions will be captured across states, will help in building this database.

The biggest weapon tax authorities will get under GST will be information, said Bipin Sapra, tax partner at EY, an audit and consulting firm.

“At present, there is no database on prices of commodities. GSTN will give you information and price benchmarking. You can question why a good is imported at a low price. If it is a related party, then customs valuation rules can also kick in,” he said.

Further, the customs department’s own IT system can be linked to the GSTN to provide vital information.

“The customs department has an integrated online system with a database on bills of entry and the invoices. Integration of this system with GSTN will help in checking tax evasion, said a CBEC official on condition of anonymity. “If an importer has under-declared the price at the time of imports and sold it at a higher price to save on countervailing duty, this can be tracked under GST,” he said.

A countervailing duty (CVD) is imposed on imports that may hurt domestic producers because of cheaper pricing of imports. But this is levied on the maximum retail price of some items such as mobile phones.

Under GST, CVD will be replaced by an integrated GST or IGST, which will be effectively a sum of central and state GST. All these transactions will now be recorded in GSTN.

With GST being levied at the point of sale, the sale price will also be reflected in the system.

GSTN will operate on a PAN (permanent account number)-based registration, filing of tax returns and a payment processing system that will help in collating all relevant data in one place. The company setting up GSTN is currently in the process of standardizing the IT network across states.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Narad » 31 Jul 2017 01:01

Apologies if posted earlier


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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby kit » 31 Jul 2017 01:06

http://www.sundayguardianlive.com/opinion/10306-india-gains-standing-china

Just what i said .. India needs to make full use of the PR !! .. stand as a credible alternative to China in Asia and the world 8)

But now India has at last taken the other tack and stood up to China. It has done so, much to China’s amazement, unilaterally, confidently, and very visibly—three times in quick succession. The first time was in April this year, then again in mid-May, and yet again at end-June. The last China has found particularly astounding, because it is an eyeball to eyeball confrontation at the trijunction.


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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby UlanBatori » 31 Jul 2017 01:11

And at the present time of total Chinese exports of ~2.3 trillion, only about $60 billion go to India, about 2.5%.

That's like saying India's population is 1.3billion, if only 26 million die in a war that's only 2%, hain? This was old Mao argument, BTW, dissing nuke threats.

True but misses the point. Look at it from the other side. $60B total imports per year from geckostan. If WE manage to get just 10 percent of that cut by individual proactive patriotic preference, that is SIX BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR. 3 ailclaft calliels. Or 2a/c + 1 nucreal submaline.

People have to look at it a bit more personally. The bullet that may have your name on it, in an AK-47 funded by Chinese, may cost $0.01. The one aimed at your friend who is in the Army, another $0.01.

So hit 'em where it hurts. From Poritbulo pov, spending $1000 on a road, bissing off the neighbor/customer and causing $6B/YEAR loss, doesn't look extremely smart. And now we see that it is ENTIRELY ELEVEN'S POLICY. :rotfl: His ass is in a sling and the sling is getting pulled back a bit each day.

Now Indians cut 20%... 30%.. snowballs to 50%. Anyone caught buying from Cheen is deemed a ********. The cost-benefit analysis begins to look pretty bleak!
Last edited by UlanBatori on 31 Jul 2017 01:16, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby nam » 31 Jul 2017 01:14

Question can t90 be used on Tibetan plateau?. If not why not.

Assumed it has been airlifted

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby kit » 31 Jul 2017 01:16

Gyan wrote:
Rudraksh wrote:
That figure is not correct. The Chinese exports to India will be north of $100 billion. $60 billion is just the invoiced value, rest of the money is routed via hawala. Even lowly importers sitting in tier 2 cities are doing this. God knows how. Almost everything you use these days is made in PRC, even if it says otherwise! If all Chinese imports are imported by paying due custom duties, 90% will become non viable. Indian made items lose out to Chinese only because of this loop hole.


Lots of imports from China are underinvoiced by 10 times 1000%


the GST can potentially identify the fraud invoicing of imports and tax them accordingly .. even a minor increase in taxes of the 60 to 100 billion of chinese imports would be windfall .. one aircraft carrier for you and one for me :rotfl:

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Prem » 31 Jul 2017 01:18


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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Pulikeshi » 31 Jul 2017 02:18

Narad wrote:Apologies if posted earlier



This is fantastic analysis...

India chose three things very carefully a long time ago:

  1. Maintain Pakistan as a buffer state and manage the mess with dosas being sent every time there was a mess and there were and will be many... but for the most part that kept India sheltered from the wider Central Asian mess where great powers keep causing greater and greater instability...
  2. Compromise with China on Tibet, to enable the nation-states that are civilizational to have common boundaries for the first time in their history. Which enables better behavior ~ as neighbors make for bad (read expensive) enemies. Thereby enforcing peace even with asymmetric growth.
  3. Understand the importance of US as an Asian power and has pursued various options to ensure that the US for the most part remains aligned with Indian interests broadly... this was true even in the worst times of the Cold War, even when it did not appear publicly that there was any alignment, leave alone non-alignment

Today, what I am not sure about is 1 & 2... these two assumptions may need to be revisited if the Chinese unsettle the foundations by making Paki a pure client state and if Tibet as an independent country becomes a better option for India to seek peaceful buffer between herself and China.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby girish.r » 31 Jul 2017 02:32


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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Pulikeshi » 31 Jul 2017 03:03



Zheng He's ghost has performed his second voyage :P

1. 15,000 acre :shock: give away for the debt owed for 99 years...
2. Chinese company gets ownership
3. Saving grace no Chinese Navy without govt. approval

We need a quick review to see if the Chinese for whatever reason believe that reviving the European Colonial model is the best option for them.
Why and how they came to this conclusion, given they look up to the US ~ which for many reasons including its own colonial experience led to a more subtle and effective policies of power projection. Is the domestic and economic compulsions/experience driving a more aggressive & colonial China?

Why do the Chinese want to pursue China Colonial Company?

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby anupmisra » 31 Jul 2017 03:41

rsingh wrote:Where in the world do you see that President of the country begging army to be loyal to governing party?


It is the only logical.

"The PLA is under the command of the Central Military Commission (CMC) of the CPC. It is legally obliged to follow the principle of civilian control of the military, although in practical terms this principle has been implemented in such a way as to ensure the PLA is under the absolute control of the Chinese Communist Party." - wiki.

PLA is not loyal to the nation but to the communist party. It is in their charter. Eleven Gin Pegs is the president of CPC. By logical extension...Comrage Eleven is asking PLA to fulfill its role. Country can go to hell. The party must go on.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27 ... ation_Army

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby g.sarkar » 31 Jul 2017 05:10

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/30/worl ... ytimes.com
China Shows Off Military Might as Xi Jinping Tries to Cement Power
BEIJING — China’s president, Xi Jinping, has opened a public campaign to deepen his grip on power in a coming leadership shake-up, using a huge military parade on Sunday, speeches and propaganda, along with a purge in the past week, to warn officials to back him as the nation’s most powerful leader in two decades. Wearing his mottled green uniform as commander in chief of the People’s Liberation Army, Mr. Xi watched as 12,000 troops marched and tanks, long-range missile launchers, jet fighters and other new weapons drove or flew past in impeccable arrays.
Mao famously said political power comes from the barrel of a gun, and Mr. Xi signaled that he, too, was counting on the military to stay ramrod loyal while he chooses a new leading lineup to be unveiled at a Communist Party congress in the autumn.
“Troops across the entire military, you must be unwavering in upholding the bedrock principle of absolute party leadership of the military,” Mr. Xi said at the parade, held on a dusty training base in Inner Mongolia region, 270 miles northwest of Beijing. “Always obey and follow the party. Go and fight wherever the party points.” The ceremony was broadcast across the country. Officially, the display was to celebrate the 90th anniversary of the creation of the People’s Liberation Army. But it was also the highlight of a week of political theater promoting Mr. Xi as a uniquely qualified politician whose elevated status as China’s “core” leader, endorsed by officials last year, should be entrenched at the party congress.
“These military parades could become a regular, institutionalized thing, but this one also has a special meaning this year,” said Deng Yuwen, a former editor at a party newspaper in Beijing who writes current affairs commentaries. “It’s meant to show that Xi Jinping firmly has the military in his grip, and nobody should have any illusions of challenging him.” The congress will almost certainly give Mr. Xi, 64, a second, five-year term as the party general secretary and chairman of the commission that controls the military, and it will appoint a new team to work under him.
No exact date has been fixed for the congress. An annual legislative meeting early next year will also almost certainly give Mr. Xi five more years as state president.
.....
“The lion of the east has woken,” it said, referring to China. “But it faces tremendous risks of being surrounded by tigers and wolves and suffering even more intense strategic encirclement, clashes and meddling.” The profile also said Mr. Xi personally pushed through difficult and contentious policy changes in his first five years in power, including building artificial islands fitted with military installations in the disputed South China Sea.
“In the South China Sea, he personally decided on building islands and consolidating reefs,” the profile said. Mr. Xi had, it said, “built a robust strategic base for ultimately prevailing in the struggle to defend the South China Sea, and has in effect constructed a Great Wall at sea.”
Mr. Xi’s power has already unsettled critics, including some inside the party, who worry that he has destabilized norms of collective leadership that can slow decision-making but also prevent dangerous overreach. “This over-concentration of authority can really get you in trouble,” Susan L. Shirk, a former State Department deputy assistant secretary for China policy, said in an interview before the parade. “I especially think about foreign and security policy.” As well as endorsing a new leadership, the congress will endorse a report laying out, in the dry jargon of party documents, Mr. Xi’s broad goals for his next five years. He told senior officials at the two-day meeting that ended on Thursday that the report should treat China’s next few years as a time of great risk. “Look to the developments that are bring us risks,” he told the officials, according to a report in People’s Daily, the official party paper. “Be ready for the worst, and make the fullest preparations for that, while working toward a good outcome and striving for the best.”

Gautam

g.sarkar
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby g.sarkar » 31 Jul 2017 05:41

Pulikeshi wrote:We need a quick review to see if the Chinese for whatever reason believe that reviving the European Colonial model is the best option for them.
Why and how they came to this conclusion, given they look up to the US ~ which for many reasons including its own colonial experience led to a more subtle and effective policies of power projection. Is the domestic and economic compulsions/experience driving a more aggressive & colonial China?
Why do the Chinese want to pursue China Colonial Company?

Is it possible for China to duplicate the European Colonial model of 15th, 16th or 17th centuries?
European led colonialism started with certain historical factors that may not be available to China.
1. Discovery of vast lands to exploit in North and South America and also Australia, with low population. These were later on developed by finances gained by loots from the colonies.
2. Lack of political unity in India, China, and African countries resulting in lack of political astuteness about the European powers.
3. Lack of Industrial revolution in non-European countries that caused a lack of modernization of the defense forces.
Can these methods be repeated by China ? Militarily, China is a weak power.
Gautam

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Gagan » 31 Jul 2017 05:51

girish.r wrote:

Why are Indian interlocuters on chinese media not forceful in telling the chinese that two countries are objecting to chinese intrusion, and china is wrong and must pull back or face the consequences.

Indians respect the hosts too much!
Sheesh! That generation of indians are too polite and disciplined to deal with a tinpot bully

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby UlanBatori » 31 Jul 2017 06:02

They are worried that they won't be invited back? Nalappt pronounced himself a "FRIEND OF CHINA" , even as the lizard host was being bloody rude to him. I would have told him that this army had been caught trespassing and making mischief, and is reacting like a bully caught red-handed. And asked why the host was so paranoid about having other opinions expressed through his channel: visions of breaking rocks in the Gobi?

But for most ppl (outside China) what comes across actually is that Indians are decent, soft-spoken, polite people, but when it comes to things that matter, Indians come to the aid of their smaller friends, and don't back down.

These arrogant Chinese TV hosts are showing themselves up to be as moronic as, say, CNN or FOX hosts whom they are probably trying to ape.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby UlanBatori » 31 Jul 2017 06:07

BTW, THANK U, LIZARDS! Went shopping, Supreme HQ wanted to buy some things for $90, found they were MADE IN CHINA< ended up buying something much nicer for $24.99 MADE IN VIETNAM, and it turned out it was on sale for $14.50.
Chalk up $90 towards Sanctions.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby sum » 31 Jul 2017 06:10

Post in DFI forum. Poster is a ex-SF and is very reserved in his posts( since his posts are usually that way) so am assuming he feels it isnt anything to be secretive about:
Today morning me and my friend saw at least 20 Trucks and 5 - 6 Gypsy full of Paratroopers (non SF) at Roorkee cantt Uttarakhand on Haridwar - Rishikesh highway. Most probably it was 50 th Independent Para Brigade on its way to China border (some 350 km from where i saw them) Barahoti and Mana. Otherwise they would've use the Railways.


We took the video and pics of them. They put dry mud or (clay maybe) to hide the para insignia on their vehicles so that nobody could identify the movement of their unit but I immediately recognized the insignia although it was not clearly visible. Apart from paratrooper's VZ 58 on their hands, which was a big giveaway.

Now i won't say that the war is coming but definitely they are going to preempt any Chinese misadventure because I never saw such a big movement of Paratroopers unit like today.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Pulikeshi » 31 Jul 2017 06:28

Gagan wrote:Why are Indian interlocuters on chinese media not forceful in telling the chinese that two countries are objecting to chinese intrusion, and china is wrong and must pull back or face the consequences.

Indians respect the hosts too much!
Sheesh! That generation of indians are too polite and disciplined to deal with a tinpot bully


Chinese side: dictate
Indian side: debate

Long ago a Chinese American manager worked for me who I called using her Chinese name, but the way she said it ~ it was shorted from Chinese.
A yong Chinese much later joined her team. One day I called to my manager by the name she uses... the younger Chinese addressed me rudely -
He said that is not how it is said in China! My manager was embarrassed, and response was also classic, "But you are not in China!" :mrgreen:
The Chinese have a tendency to speak English like original in Chinese and come across as very rude and dictatorial ~
This must be countered correctly.

Indians tend to start every sentence with "No, ....but, yes this...." The Chinese do not understand - the better response by Indians is to say,...
"Yes, you think it is Chinese territory, but that is just your perception. India is...." or "The Chinese have treated all their neighbors poorly, .."
Declarative statements with positional clarity works better... Indians tend to debate a position and offer subetly and nuance ~ not effective!

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby atamjeetsingh » 31 Jul 2017 06:37

sum wrote:Post in DFI forum. Poster is a ex-SF and is very reserved in his posts( since his posts are usually that way) so am assuming he feels it isnt anything to be secretive about:
Today morning me and my friend saw at least 20 Trucks and 5 - 6 Gypsy full of Paratroopers (non SF) at Roorkee cantt Uttarakhand on Haridwar - Rishikesh highway. Most probably it was 50 th Independent Para Brigade on its way to China border (some 350 km from where i saw them) Barahoti and Mana. Otherwise they would've use the Railways.


We took the video and pics of them. They put dry mud or (clay maybe) to hide the para insignia on their vehicles so that nobody could identify the movement of their unit but I immediately recognized the insignia although it was not clearly visible. Apart from paratrooper's VZ 58 on their hands, which was a big giveaway.

Now i won't say that the war is coming but definitely they are going to preempt any Chinese misadventure because I never saw such a big movement of Paratroopers unit like today.


Good show, seems Army is preparing for every mischief Chinis can throw at us. Northern borders Ladkah, DBO and eastern border Sikkim to AP are already fortified. Haven't heard much about HP and Uttrakhand borders, seems they are preparing for every eventuality.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby shiv » 31 Jul 2017 06:48

atamjeetsingh wrote:
sum wrote:Post in DFI forum. Poster is a ex-SF and is very reserved in his posts( since his posts are usually that way) so am assuming he feels it isnt anything to be secretive about:


Good show, seems Army is preparing for every mischief Chinis can throw at us. Northern borders Ladkah, DBO and eastern border Sikkim to AP are already fortified. Haven't heard much about HP and Uttrakhand borders, seems they are preparing for every eventuality.

The quoted post mentions Barahoti which is Uttarakhand

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby g.sarkar » 31 Jul 2017 06:49

I hope and pray that Indian army is moving a lot of men to the north. But why talk about actual movements?
Gautam

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby UlanBatori » 31 Jul 2017 07:00

Meanwhile my 18th cousin reports from Himachal that a very long convoy with tank carriers and self-propelled artillery has been wending its way north-WEST. Anyone spell Aksai Chin? Looks like entire DokLam thing is a feint.


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