Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

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ArjunPandit
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby ArjunPandit » 04 Aug 2017 09:32

Liu wrote:india has no advantages along the border,except manpowers .

1. in orowarfare that's the second biggest advantage, the first being the height.
2. Also, how about vulnerabilities of supply lines, how about acclimatization, air defense, air field availability etc etc. It would be better of you to provide some facts or cogent analysis on these dimensions rather than saying a gaseous statement. Although that would be out of line with your past behavior.
3. Lastly, if that is the only thing, why hasnt china taken care of that so far, it's been 2 months, has there been any mobilization (not that i have heard of, though i dont have any inside sources in china). What happened to the great transport planes and railroad track that could bring in millions of troops at the drop of underwear
While i am not as exuberant about india's capabilities as chola, I am not as condescending as you are. If china could evict india, it would have done by now adn claimed to be the most bad ass superhero by now.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby ArjunPandit » 04 Aug 2017 09:41

UlanBatori wrote:Those accounts should be in every Indian textbook: Out of bullets, bayonets ineffective against the hugely-wrapped bellies of the Chinese, the Wrestler Sarang bangs the heads of the Chinese together, bangs them against rocks, until he is killed.

BTW, I had heard plenty of these accounts back in those days, but not managed to put faces and names to them. It's true: on several of those hills and passes, one Indian soldier with an LMG managed to take out like 200 Chinese, then with bullets spent, injured by grenade blasts, he would charge with a bayonet as his last act. Which brings me to the other point I was trying to convey to cholaji: The front was strung out over 1500 miles. If the Chinese could concentrate 5000 men (of whom 2000 died) to try to take just one airfield at 18000 feet in snow, what WAS their total starting number? I think 400,000 was an underestimate.

Brigadiar dalvi in his book mentioned that chinese planned to take 3000 PoWs and they ended up taking much more (I dont have the book with me right now to refresh the numbers). Not an expert but that would put the numbers of invading chinese to be very high. Wish nehruji were not high on peace

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby ArjunPandit » 04 Aug 2017 09:42

UlanBatori wrote:The difference is EZ to explain. Only 40 Indian troops where Cheen can see them. Other 360 are, well,,, on their way elsewhere. :)

reminds me of manohar parrikar statement that lord ganesha's eyes were getting smaller then he found that they were made in china. Small eyes small sight

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Karthik S » 04 Aug 2017 09:50

ArjunPandit wrote:
UlanBatori wrote:The difference is EZ to explain. Only 40 Indian troops where Cheen can see them. Other 360 are, well,,, on their way elsewhere. :)

reminds me of manohar parrikar statement that lord ganesha's eyes were getting smaller then he found that they were made in china. Small eyes small sight


:rotfl: That was racist.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby ramana » 04 Aug 2017 10:04

Philip wrote:Bhutanese troops replacing our troops will be a clear win for the PRC.They will later armtwist the Bhutanese and shut India out.What we enjoy now we must never give up.


Correct. If Indian troops are replaced but Chinese troops are still there in any form its not a win for India.
Someone is smoking strong stuff.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Deans » 04 Aug 2017 10:26

shiv wrote:This complaint is a moving of goalpost from the first one about poor leadership and men dying. I do not want to get into a discussion but since you ask, there is at least one memorial that specifically records the names of the martyrs of Op Pawan in Sri Lanka. I tried to make a commemorative video but it is long and dull - it is difficult to do justice to a memorial. It has got fewer hits than one LCA or China video in a day. Does that reflect me, or you or Indians in general? The name Operation Pawan actually appears briefly in the video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9R-ivRja1Q


I actually visit this memorial each week. Its a nice place for my evening walk and I always stop to look at the names of our fallen heroes. But:
The defense park is terribly maintained.
The Navy's exhibits are almost ruined.
The tanks and missiles in the outdoor display have no signage, to at least give basic information to visitors who click selfies.
The exhibits are not maintained. The army could also have supplied better exhibits.
The military museum below the memorial has not been opened for the last 2 years ! No one seems to know why.
All names of those KIA are not listed at the memorial - for e.g. PVC winner Hav. Abdul Hamid is missing from the 1965 section.

It took years for this memorial to be sanctioned and everyone seems to have forgotten about it once it was.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Pulikeshi » 04 Aug 2017 10:38

Liu wrote:india has no advantages along the border,except manpowers .


Have you seen my fav buffalo? Loves the grass in Dokalam and arr parr :P
Two months and counting... thank you for all the dosas! :mrgreen:

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Singha » 04 Aug 2017 10:51

With two roads from the north, both of which can be pounded by india , chumbi valley is a death trap for two divisions of pla troops if they escalate

Its the worst place to pick a fight with india if you ask me.

But dumb peking ducks have put their hand into the beehive right there and cannot back away from monkey trap now

We have them.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Suraj » 04 Aug 2017 11:22

Doklam Situation: India rubbishes 15-page Chinese 'fact sheet' with one line response
India issued a one line statement negating a 15 page document put out by China about the reduction of troops at Doklam amidst the standoff. The Chinese had issued a 15 page fact sheet in which it claimed that there was a troop reduction by India at Doklam.

It also said that India was inventing excuses to justify its stand at Doklam. The Chinese have described the positioning of Indian troops at Doklam as an illegal crossing into Chinese territory.

In response to the 15 page fact sheet, India issued a one line rebuttal. India chose not to counter China point by point. "India considers that peace and tranquillity in the India-China border areas is an important prerequisite for smooth development of our bilateral relations with China," it said.

Good job by GoI and MEA. They're showing skill at not just holding ground, but responding in a manner that belittles the Chinese.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby yensoy » 04 Aug 2017 11:26

This would be a great time to turn the screw on them and "probe their defences" rather the extent to which they will bluster and bluff. It can still be sub-war. Would be great to roll a few heads in PLA that miscalculated our resolve. Also a good time for road building activities and "collecting taxes from the yaksmen" nonsense if they want to play that game.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby yensoy » 04 Aug 2017 11:27



I think I can translate the Indian response into Hindi in just 2 words 8)

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Pulikeshi » 04 Aug 2017 11:28

Suraj wrote:Doklam Situation: India rubbishes 15-page Chinese 'fact sheet' with one line response
India issued a one line statement negating a 15 page document put out by China about the reduction of troops at Doklam amidst the standoff. The Chinese had issued a 15 page fact sheet in which it claimed that there was a troop reduction by India at Doklam.

It also said that India was inventing excuses to justify its stand at Doklam. The Chinese have described the positioning of Indian troops at Doklam as an illegal crossing into Chinese territory.

In response to the 15 page fact sheet, India issued a one line rebuttal. India chose not to counter China point by point. "India considers that peace and tranquillity in the India-China border areas is an important prerequisite for smooth development of our bilateral relations with China," it said.

Good job by GoI and MEA. They're showing skill at not just holding ground, but responding in a manner that belittles the Chinese.


Oh! The gal to respond in one line dismissing all the claims as irrelevant and good behavior by the Chinese is what is expected
This is the other hand of the surgical strike that will be understood where it needs to be understood :mrgreen: :evil:

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby ArjunPandit » 04 Aug 2017 11:44

Sikkim standoff: China says its restraint has 'bottom line'
From red lines to a bottom line, this is a true convergence to their pathan biradars...

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Singha » 04 Aug 2017 11:50

Peking Dlagon Lords, self proclaimed P2 reduced to filing meek 15 page dossiers - kaun hai bhai has MMS infiltrated across the yellow sea ? :mrgreen:

all dossiers will be duly looked into and filed into proper filing cabinet

Image

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby shiv » 04 Aug 2017 12:01

Deans wrote:It took years for this memorial to be sanctioned and everyone seems to have forgotten about it once it was.

It is "Not yet complete" according to the workers there

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Iyersan » 04 Aug 2017 12:11

ArjunPandit wrote:Sikkim standoff: China says its restraint has 'bottom line'
From red lines to a bottom line, this is a true convergence to their pathan biradars...

The bottom of a bottomless pit :rotfl: :rotfl:

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby SSridhar » 04 Aug 2017 12:14

China says its restraint has ‘bottom line’ - PTI
China has said that it has shown “utmost goodwill” over the prolonged military standoff with India in the Sikkim sector but warned that its “restraint” has a “bottom line“.

The reaction from the Chinese defence ministry late last night came a day after the Indian External Affairs Ministry in a statement said that the peace and tranquillity of the India-China boundary constitutes the important prerequisite for the smooth development of bilateral relations.

“Since the incident occurred, China has shown utmost goodwill and sought to communicate with India through diplomatic channels to resolve the incident. Chinese armed forces have also shown a high level of restraint with an eye to the general bilateral relations and the regional peace and stability,” Ren said, according to report in the state-run Xinhua news agency.

“However, goodwill has its principles and restraint has its bottom line,” Ren added. The spokesperson urged the Indian side to give up the “illusion of its delaying tactic, as no country should underestimate the Chinese forces’ confidence and capability to safeguard peace and their resolve and willpower to defend national sovereignty, security and development interests.“

Ren said the Chinese armed forces will resolutely protect the country’s territorial sovereignty and security interests. His comments also come after Indian National Security Adviser Ajit Doval met his Chinese counterpart on the sidelines of a BRICS summit of NSAs from the member countries.


India has reached the 'top line' in its restraint too against the constant incursions and threats from the PLA and China must not misinterpret the utmost goodwill India has shown with an eye to the general bilateral relations and the regional peace and stability. The PLA should give up its illusion of its abusive and bullying tactics as no country should underestimate the Indian forces. The Indian armed forces will resolutely protect the country’s territorial sovereignty and security interests.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby g.sarkar » 04 Aug 2017 12:43


http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 906447.cms
Anti-dumping authority recommends import duty on solar and wind energy equipment from China
By Kaavya Chandrasekaran
NEW DELHI: Anti-dumping authorities have recommended action against key Chinese components for windmills, and are considering a similar petition for solar equipment, delivering another blow to the flood of cheap imports from Beijing and potentially arresting the steep fall in renewable energy tariffs.
The Directorate General of Anti-Dumping and Allied Duties (DGAD) has recommended imposing anti-dumping duty on castings imported from China for use in the construction of wind turbines.
The duty suggested varies between 6.57 per cent and 32.95 per cent for different Chinese companies, six of which are specifically named.
Indian authorities have been increasingly acting against cheap Chinese imports, which Indian manufacturers say are routinely priced below cost of production and have contributed to India's trade deficit of $51 billion with China.
Last week, China's state-run newspaper The Global Times reported that India initiated 12 investigations against Chinese products in the first half of this year, becoming the country with the most trade-remedy probes against China. DGAD had initiated an inquiry into the import of castings from China in early 2016 following a petition filed by Larsen & Toubro.
.....

PM is turning the screws slowly.
Gautam

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Marten » 04 Aug 2017 13:26

shiv wrote:
Deans wrote:It took years for this memorial to be sanctioned and everyone seems to have forgotten about it once it was.

It is "Not yet complete" according to the workers there

OT: apologies.
There is a mezzanine floor that is yet not complete. If you peek into it, you will see regimental insignia, flags and various other items.
I take my kids there often because they love the flag and other display items, especially the Arjun and the Mig 27. My elder kid read a few names and decided to draw a tank depicting the victory.
Not many on BR follow our galleries: Here is the Freedom park one set up by Jagan Sir.

Shiv saar, request you to consider making Amar chitra katha type narrative videos for kids. It would inspire many! For instance, my kid watched Mao Sir's Tejas wake test video and decided he would be a pilot. I'm not sure if Mao Sir remembers him, but my kid sure does remember meeting him and takes every such meeting as a sign.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby sum » 04 Aug 2017 13:42

In response to the 15 page fact sheet, India issued a one line rebuttal. India chose not to counter China point by point. "India considers that peace and tranquillity in the India-China border areas is an important prerequisite for smooth development of our bilateral relations with China," it said.

While we are quick to blast GoI/MEA as spineless,clueless etc, credit must be given where its due.

No other country in Asia would have the guts to do this to China and certianly not a country sharing a border with it

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Singha » 04 Aug 2017 13:49

the cold contempt is oozing out.

we are being watched from other perches in east asia.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby nam » 04 Aug 2017 14:07

. . .

A: The road construction activities are not new developments. Actually they took place many years ago. As for the case in point, we notified the Indian side about our road activities on May 18, one month before the incident (troop stand-off) and then notified them for the second time on June 8. It is within China’s right to do so, but in a measure to improve confidence building we notified India. Without any response to our notification, the Indian side sent armed troops to obstruct us, and this is very shocking for us. This represents a disregard, and the trampling of the goodwill of the Chinese side.



The Chinese are making a fool of themselves. If they consider this area a Chinese land/dispute with Bhutan, why would they want to inform India of the road building?

If India did not object then and went in afterwards... it sort of proves India was invited by Bhutan.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby rgosain » 04 Aug 2017 14:11

sum wrote:
In response to the 15 page fact sheet, India issued a one line rebuttal. India chose not to counter China point by point. "India considers that peace and tranquillity in the India-China border areas is an important prerequisite for smooth development of our bilateral relations with China," it said.

While we are quick to blast GoI/MEA as spineless,clueless etc, credit must be given where its due.

No other country in Asia would have the guts to do this to China and certianly not a country sharing a border with it

Basically this is the same template that is used with Pakistan, only now that it is being used with its mentor and both are being treated as terrorist states
Look how the statement now reads:
"India considers that peace and tranquillity in the India-Pakistan border areas is an important prerequisite for smooth development of our bilateral relations with Pakistan,"

See the level of contempt

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby yensoy » 04 Aug 2017 14:48

g.sarkar wrote:

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 906447.cms
Anti-dumping authority recommends import duty on solar and wind energy equipment from China
By Kaavya Chandrasekaran
NEW DELHI: Anti-dumping authorities have recommended action against key Chinese components for windmills, and are considering a similar petition for solar equipment, delivering another blow to the flood of cheap imports from Beijing and potentially arresting the steep fall in renewable energy tariffs.
The Directorate General of Anti-Dumping and Allied Duties (DGAD) has recommended imposing anti-dumping duty on castings imported from China for use in the construction of wind turbines.
.....

PM is turning the screws slowly.
Gautam


Actually we should absolutely continue to import below-manufacturing-cost type of items like those related to nonconventional power generation. This is a productive use of our money.

We should put anti-dumping duty on Chinese silk, fibre/textiles, toys, phones and all sorts of consumer crap.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Singha » 04 Aug 2017 14:49

weather in upper reaches of uttaranchal is turning hostile with rains ... this week the road to badrinath was mostly closed due to 'landslides' but could be cover to ease the path of military convoys. my relative tried two days but could not proceed there, finally returned.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Singha » 04 Aug 2017 14:50

>> Actually we should absolutely continue to import below-manufacturing-cost type of items like those related to nonconventional power generation. This is a productive use of our money.

how will domestic industry develop in such strategic sectors then?

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Singha » 04 Aug 2017 15:30

some 58 telecom fraud suspects brought back from indonesia
Image

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Singha » 04 Aug 2017 15:32

meantime vietnam has abducted one of their own fugitives from germany
http://edition.cnn.com/2017/08/04/europ ... index.html

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Iyersan » 04 Aug 2017 15:57

http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-new ... s2AkN.html
Chinese social media abuzz with ‘statements’ on Doklam standoff warning India to pull back

Doklam standoff: Many Chinese on such platforms have interpreted the salvo of ministerial and media statements as part of a “last warning” to India though none of the statements explicitly say so

Let there be war!!!!

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby sum » 04 Aug 2017 16:08

Singha wrote:meantime vietnam has abducted one of their own fugitives from germany
http://edition.cnn.com/2017/08/04/europ ... index.html

How did they manage that? :shock: :shock:

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby sum » 04 Aug 2017 16:09

Iyersan wrote:
Doklam standoff: Many Chinese on such platforms have interpreted the salvo of ministerial and media statements as part of a “last warning” to India though none of the statements explicitly say so

Let there be war!!!!

Is this chola sir posting in a new ID? :lol:

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby UlanBatori » 04 Aug 2017 16:29

I am trying to interpret the claim of "only 40 Indians left on the plateau" in the middle of all the griping. Isn't that a clear sign of goodwill from India, allowing all Chinese to leave the plateau? Not that I would trust the Chinese, but what were they trying to say there (other than "even 1 is too many" etc etc)
Eleven saying: "pls pls pls let me declare victory and stand down"?

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby SriKumar » 04 Aug 2017 16:34

sum wrote:
. .

While we are quick to blast GoI/MEA as spineless,clueless etc, credit must be given where its due.

No other country in Asia would have the guts to do this to China and certianly not a country sharing a border with it
Sir, may I state the obvious here by mentioning that the spine has come under the new leadership. Burma and especially Pakistan can attest to this. If there was criticism of GOI response in the past, at least some of it is completely justifiable.

On a different note , some one had posted about no missile tests being done in the aftermath of the road construction. A note from says that China informed India of the construction in May sometime. India tested a Prithvi on June 3rd or so. But I am not quite sure that it is related to the road incursion by China. There were several other missile tests earlier this year.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby UlanBatori » 04 Aug 2017 16:41

Also the present parameters. Is India saying:
a) Stop building the road any further. It is unacceptable to extend a motorable road south towards Chicken Neck.
or
b) Your move to turn the road south shows why this road is completely unacceptable. And that your presence on the plateau is ill-intentioned. So LEAVE THE PLATEAU.

Indian obstruction of the road continuation only says (a). But Bhutanese police seemed to be saying (b) and seeking Indian intervention when the Chinese pushed them aside at gunpoint, says that India is demanding (b). Symbolic meaning of (b) appears to be: One Bully Another Road (OBAR) - down to Chittagong. Meaning huge khulji about Indian dissing of OBOR.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby A_Gupta » 04 Aug 2017 16:45

Bloomberg is worried about India's submarine force.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... ina-threat
Race to Renew India Submarine Force Amid Rising China Threat

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby A_Gupta » 04 Aug 2017 16:48

Bloomberg is warning India of Chinese threat:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... ted-region
With Live-fire Drill, China Warns India Not to Test Beijing

Beijing is intensifying its warnings to Indian troops to get out of a contested region high in the Himalayas where China, India and Bhutan meet, saying China's "restraint has its limits" and publicizing live-fire drills in Tibet.
...
On Friday, China Central Television broadcast video it said showed an army unit in an unidentified part of Tibet carrying out live-fire firing exercises in the past few days.

A commander sitting in a vehicle shouted "3, 2, 1, fire!" into two telephones and a missile was launched into the sky. Troops were shown loading and firing other missiles, some of which landed in fiery explosions.

The report, which was also carried in other state media, didn't mention the dispute with India, and said the unit has been training for three months.

It appeared to be an attempt to increase pressure on India, however, along with strongly worded statements this week from China's foreign and defense ministries, as well as in state media.

"China has made it clear that there is no room for negotiation and the only solution is the unconditional and immediate withdrawal of Indian troops from the region," said a commentary Friday by the official Xinhua News Agency.

"If China backs down now, India may be emboldened to make more trouble in the future," it added.


China's Foreign Ministry issued a document Wednesday setting out what it called "the facts" about Indian troops "trespassing" in Chinese territory, calling on India to immediately and unconditionally withdraw and saying Beijing would work with Bhutan to resolve the boundary issue.

The document says that as of the end of July, more than 40 Indian border troops remained, down from more than 270 with weapons and two bulldozers who advanced more than 100 meters (yards) into Chinese territory on June 16.

In editorials this week, the ruling Communist Party's People's Daily said Indian officials and media had "concocted all kinds of groundless excuses" for the incursion.

If the dispute drags on into September, it would hang awkwardly over a meeting of the BRICS major emerging economies, including China and India, to be held in the southeastern Chinese city of Xiamen.

"India thought wrongly that China would tolerate its actions because the meeting is going to be held soon," said Chu Yin, a researcher at the Center for China and Globalization, a Beijing think tank.

"If India retreats now, China will save it from further embarrassment."

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby shiv » 04 Aug 2017 16:55

SriKumar wrote:
On a different note , some one had posted about no missile tests being done in the aftermath of the road construction. A note from says that China informed India of the construction in May sometime. India tested a Prithvi on June 3rd or so. But I am not quite sure that it is related to the road incursion by China. There were several other missile tests earlier this year.


SriKumar - this has nothing to do with your post but I just want to comment on an opinion that is expressed very frequently on BRF. Many people say that whenever there is a crisis - it is time to test a missile (or a nuke). It appears to me that the people who make this suggestion see missile tests at crisis times as a "signal of strength". I have not understood the logic there

If we do simply test a missile to send a signal who will read the signal and what sort of change of behaviour is expected from the people who read the signal. For example, will China back down or Pakistan stop sending in terrorists. I mean that of we had never tested or deployed missiles earlier - then the first demonstrations would be useful. Bt after we have demonstrated missile capability testing as a signal seems worthless to me I can't see how any adversary would feel warned or behave more cautiously simply because one more test is conducted.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby shiv » 04 Aug 2017 16:58

The Chinese must be completely stupid to think that India is going to back down when they have never ever shown an iota of "goodwill" in terms of terrorists in Pakistan, nukes to Pakistan or NSG.

China, as shown by the wise people of the Chinese psyche thread shows only contempt for India and expects India to back down and retreat with tail between its legs and does not deserve the slightest bit of consideration. This is how the Chinese seem to think. Under the circumstances what we need is war. We need to send back dead Chinese bodies, glasses and all.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Iyersan » 04 Aug 2017 16:59

Asked about diplomatic communication between India-China over Doklam, Gopal Baglay sings: *Ishaaron ko agar samjho, raaz ko raaz rehne do*

The guy actually said it in a press conference on the Indo- China issue

Singha
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Singha » 04 Aug 2017 17:03

the JEM leader being blocked from being declared a superstar international terrorist by China is a convenient stick that India is using to lay bare chinese nudity on the issue for all see every month.

nothing suits GOI better than China continuing to block his coronation.


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