Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

All threads that are locked or marked for deletion will be moved to this forum. The topics will be cleared from this archive on the 1st and 16th of each month.
UlanBatori
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14045
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby UlanBatori » 10 Aug 2017 01:37

Moving to NoKo dhaga
Last edited by UlanBatori on 10 Aug 2017 02:59, edited 1 time in total.


UlanBatori
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14045
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby UlanBatori » 10 Aug 2017 01:41

More dhoti-shivering: UndieTV declares "countdown to war has started"
Somehow I find it very strange that Chinese propaganda is being allowed to run out of control, JUST LIKE NORTH KOREA's. The threats are completely disproportionate, and they allow India to have a perfect excuse to say that WAR, not some localized pushing contest, is being waged, and go all-out, banning imports, cancelling trade agreements, and driving straight through Aksai Hind and into Lhasa. Or at least bombing the cra* out of Chinese positions in Uttar Dharmasala.

UlanBatori
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14045
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby UlanBatori » 10 Aug 2017 01:47

I have noo idea what undietv means by this
keen to assert that the Indian Army has not rushed its Brigades to forward locations in support of Indian soldiers in the Doklam plateau.

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 54682
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby ramana » 10 Aug 2017 02:36

RD, There is a NoKo thread to post.

g.sarkar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2584
Joined: 09 Jul 2005 12:22
Location: MERCED, California

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby g.sarkar » 10 Aug 2017 03:28

Are these of any interest to us? (some are not current)
China Ramps Up Rotations at Tibet’s Gonggar Airfield
http://www.offiziere.ch/?p=25822
Satellite Imagery Shows Larger Deployments at Hotan, China
http://www.offiziere.ch/?p=22707
Gonggar During the Doka La Standoff
http://www.offiziere.ch/?p=31484
Gautam

g.sarkar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2584
Joined: 09 Jul 2005 12:22
Location: MERCED, California

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby g.sarkar » 10 Aug 2017 03:39

Apologize if already posted, this sutra is moving fast:
http://www.firstpost.com/world/chinas-c ... 01753.html
The India-China conflict is one of cyberspace and technology, not just a military battle
While most Indians perceive the conflict with China only in military terms, Beijing achieved its aim without a single shot being fired. We have not yet fully wrapped our heads around the other three battlegrounds of China in the 21st century.
Firstly, over a billion Indians who have been mired in ennui, did not bother to refrain from purchasing goods 'Made in China'. Hence, China knows very well that its grip over legitimately manufactured goods and global rip-offs will not be affected by the call of war. If the people of China do not care why would the rest of the world bother? Even as I look around me the TV, the mobile phone, the laptop, the coffee mug and toaster share a common genesis.
Secondly, we are refusing to recognise the potential of cyberspace. Recently, there has been the talk of dormant viruses being installed in computers and sold to military setups. The computers work perfectly well until the viruses are activated after which the machines go awry and malfunction. The possibility is not just in the realm of science fiction and one cannot choose to ignore the reality of the hazard. One of the threats that cannot be overlooked is the potential of manufacturing or assembling a remote control for the machines.
In an episode of Madame Secretary, a popular TV drama, the US is able to control Israeli strikes on Iran by shutting down the systems in the fighter jet hardware it had sold to Tel Aviv. It is all very convincing.
There is no reason why their high technology Trojan horses would not work. You would not even be aware of the virus that might be snugly hibernating in your infrastructure. In the same sphere of knowledge, is the power to hack and cause disruptions to transportation, urban mobility and mass transit, public amenities like electricity and water and traffic control which could add to the pre-war confusion. If the lights go off what war can you fight? It might sound cinematic but it is real.
India plans big purchases for its armed forces and with an annual budget of $53 billion, the country is the fifth largest weapon shopper. It has to be extremely careful of what it buys and from whom because, without a screening in combat, we could be a sitting duck for sure. This is specifically valid for computer systems that command the weaponry, be it ships, tanks or aircraft.
.....

Gautam

g.sarkar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2584
Joined: 09 Jul 2005 12:22
Location: MERCED, California

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby g.sarkar » 10 Aug 2017 05:13

http://www.tribuneindia.com/news/commen ... 48572.html
Standoff on the border
Sushma Ramachandran
Hard to unravel interlinked India, China economies
Tensions between the two Asian giants have sent ripples all over the world. The standoff between India and China at Bhutan’s border has been accompanied by a frenzied global diplomatic campaign by both countries to project their point of view. India’s hard line on the issue of protecting its smaller neighbour has apparently taken the Chinese by surprise, hence the aggressive public posturing.
The question is: will this long-drawn border spat affect the diverse economic relations between the two countries which have become deep and longstanding over the past two decades?
.....
First, one must take a look at bilateral trade. Two-way trade between the two countries amounted to 25 billion dollars in 2006-7 and a decade later has crossed 71 billion dollars. Imports from China rose from $17.48 billion in 2006-07 to $61.29 billion in 2016-17. Exports to China were pegged at 10.8 billion dollars in 2016-17 as against 9 billion dollars a decade ago. These had risen to a peak of $18 billion in 2011-12 but dipped again in recent years. This leaves a huge deficit of 51.09 billion dollars in trade with China.
At the same time, the wide trade gap ensures that the Indian industry is not likely to be affected greatly by any sudden break in the economic relationship. In fact, the Chinese industry has much more to lose in case of a stoppage of trade flows as India remains a huge market for their manufacturing giants. The Chinese presence in domestic markets is unmistakably visible even to the ordinary consumer. Shops are flooded with numerous products that were earlier made by small-scale units but are now imported at a much cheaper rate from the northern neighbour. These include decorative lights and electrical fittings, locks and even religious idols. The largest share of the import basket is electronic equipment, including mobile phones and laptops. The other big buys include machinery, organic chemicals, fertilizers, iron and steel, and plastics. India, on the other hand, supplies mainly raw materials like cotton and copper along with gems and jewellery to the Chinese markets.
The second major issue is investment flows. According to a leading industry chamber, CII, as many as 142 Chinese companies have invested 27 billion dollars over the last 13 years in various industries in this country, including auto components and consumer electronics. These include Huawei, ZTE, Alibaba, and Xiaomi.
Over the same period, 139 Indian companies have invested 12 billion dollars in China, largely in the software and information technology sector. Official data shows much lower investments by China but in any case, there is clearly a surge of interest in the large Indian market. This is visible even to consumers seeking to buy white goods, mobile phones or computers.
In other words, the engagement of the two economies is far greater than ever before in history. Not only that, tourism between the two countries is growing rapidly. A package tour for the average tourists was a rarity about ten years ago. Now it is commonplace for Indians to go on holiday to China and traverse all over the country without any hindrance, barring Tibet, which remains a difficult terrain.
......

Gautam

SriKumar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2042
Joined: 27 Feb 2006 07:22
Location: sarvatra

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby SriKumar » 10 Aug 2017 05:16

Did not see this posted anywhere: Nirmala Sitharaman mentions 93 Chinese goods have anti-dumping tarriffs.
Today's news.
http://www.hindustantimes.com/business- ... sbhtL.html

In addition, 40 cases concerning imports from China have been initiated by the directorate general of anti-dumping & allied duties, she said.

This was today in the RAjya Sabha. It looks like GOI is actively contemplating something here.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On a related note, I've seen several posts about why public boycott of goods is not 'worth the effort' because it is ineffective for one reason or another, or that only the govt is best positioned to effectively do things in a rigorous manner, or that some Chinese gorment babu can play games with the desi consumer by cutting the prices 25% etc.

I think a public boycott by aam janata is still a statement worth making, and if it gains any momentum, it can be effective. At a minimum, it will raise awareness and build unity among people about what is happening. I rate doing a boycott as better than not doing a boycott.

In times of war, or in times of a threat of a war, one cannot (or should not) always measure the need to take an action solely by estimating how effective it will be. This type of analysis/approach is fine if you are deciding what business to start, what company to acquire, or what stock to buy. In a war/threat-of-war, things are different. You try do your part even if the returns on it is low (i.e. for those who want to do anything).

The 'minimum ROI' type logic was not used by the soldiers in previous wars (yak-herder has posted stories where soldiers fought in face of certain death). Sure one can argue that it is their sworn duty to do that. However, the simple act of buying a different product in your local mohalla or mall is doing your part for the larger issue at hand, albeit a small part. At the very least it could be minimally effective. And if enough people join and a concerted effort is made, it will be moderately effective. All of this happens for the cost of a little extra looking and searching...and who knows....you might even get a better-quality, longer-lasting product.

shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34982
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby shiv » 10 Aug 2017 06:56

UlanBatori wrote:More dhoti-shivering: UndieTV declares "countdown to war has started"
Somehow I find it very strange that Chinese propaganda is being allowed to run out of control,

Let me add some perspective.

TV News has indeed become very interesting in India. Unlike the past when ever channel carried the same stuff he is what I saw yesterdin

1. UndiTV - did not watch
2. Republic TV: Haryana Rape attempt
3. TimesNow: Rajya Sabha election/Maratha agitation
4. Public TV (Kannada) - DK Shivakumar and his loot
5. WION: Korea, Doklam

When war is about to start - expect every channel to be reporting that. UndiTV is trying to attract eyeballj by sensationalism

UlanBatori
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14045
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby UlanBatori » 10 Aug 2017 06:59

Someone should do a comparison of NoKo and Chinese threats - comparing the original Chinese/Korean words used. I get the feeling that they are being read out of the same playbook written by the same Political Commissar.

kancha
BRFite
Posts: 934
Joined: 20 Apr 2005 19:13

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby kancha » 10 Aug 2017 07:25

Teetar

Did my bit

Had to buy a new mobile .. ordered a Samsung cell 'coz NOT CHINESE
#MoneyWellSpent


UlanBatori
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14045
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby UlanBatori » 10 Aug 2017 07:26

Good 4 u.

sudarshan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2414
Joined: 09 Aug 2008 08:56

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby sudarshan » 10 Aug 2017 07:30

kancha wrote:Teetar

Did my bit

Had to buy a new mobile .. ordered a Samsung cell 'coz NOT CHINESE
#MoneyWellSpent



Did you buy this in India? Could you please take a look at my question in the "Be Indian Buy Indian" thread and give me a couple of tips?

Thanks in advance.

kancha
BRFite
Posts: 934
Joined: 20 Apr 2005 19:13

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby kancha » 10 Aug 2017 07:32

shiv wrote:
When war is about to start - expect every channel to be reporting that. UndiTV is trying to attract eyeballj by sensationalism


This came by on WhatsApp earlier this morning

Meanwhile China has reiterated:
भाई अगर अहमद पटेल और विकास बराला से टाइम मिल जाए तो हमारी धमकी पर seriously गौर कर लो
मजाक नहीं चल रिया है :((

(Translation: If you folks are done with Ahmed Patel and Vikas Barala, then please find some time to take our threats seriously. We are NOT joking :((


:rotfl:

UlanBatori
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14045
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby UlanBatori » 10 Aug 2017 07:48

The sad thing is that Dear BigMouth in P-G learned from this sort of stuff (vely vely vely vely glave consqeuences - this term came from Indian Express circa 1967 before the Nathu La jhapad) and started spouting them against Yoo Ess.

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Singha » 10 Aug 2017 08:59

Saurav Jha‏ @SJha1618 14m14 minutes ago

I think @manoharparrikar should be brought back as a 'full-time' defence minister, given the situation.

Incidentally open Chinese war theats show that China thinks that India will never pre-empt it, no matter how destabilizing the rhetoric.

Anyway, it is no longer just global times. Even China's 'official' media (ha ha) is now in the fray, openly talking about war.

'Mutual withdrawal' was being nice to the Chinese.Just tell them to leave Bhutanese land. Of course, if you to want avoid war at all costs..

Marten
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2176
Joined: 01 Jan 2010 21:41
Location: Engaging Communists, Uber-Socialists, Maoists, and other pro-poverty groups in fruitful dialog.

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Marten » 10 Aug 2017 09:38

kancha wrote:Teetar

Did my bit

Had to buy a new mobile .. ordered a Samsung cell 'coz NOT CHINESE
#MoneyWellSpent


Congrats Bro. We need more people to step up and say no more to Chinese goods. I am scouting for a TV and have decided to only buy a unit for which the panel itself is not manufactured in China. Will be trying to figure out which ones actually manufacture in India and shall buy it no matter which brand.

Iyersan
BRFite
Posts: 485
Joined: 19 Sep 2016 16:13

Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Iyersan » 10 Aug 2017 10:46

Ramanaji,
I have been thinking about why the Chinese are delaying on the strike?
Only a few thoughts come to my mind from the tactical side
They are searching for another opening on the Indian side which is currently not in the news and might do a Kargil
Kalapani , Barahoti and the Dokalam will never be the areas where they initiate any friction
Or
They are waiting for troops to acclimatize in the caverns in which they have those High altitude simulation chambers and slowly we might see an increase in troop mobilization
As I have read in many of the BRF posts - There cannot be any mechanized armour in these areas so we can strike that out.
Probably air combat might be witnessed with IAF conducting first strike on large scale troop mobilization on Chinese sides which when the cross the seven bridges will endager India's security and we might strike first ...
Or Small scale hits at various points along the border to keep it alive until BRICS so that Modi falls at XI feet and XI gets the second term

Probably if NoKo nukes Guam in the midst of this we can have serious regional conflict with worldwide escalation

Added later: Or just do some Arty fire from the Chinese side on blank indian territory and show their domestic audience the power of the PLA.
But I do believe the Chinese rocket force can do damage to indian infrastructure incase of a long war

Yayavar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4785
Joined: 06 Jun 2008 10:55

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Yayavar » 10 Aug 2017 11:04

kancha wrote:
shiv wrote:
When war is about to start - expect every channel to be reporting that. UndiTV is trying to attract eyeballj by sensationalism


This came by on WhatsApp earlier this morning

Meanwhile China has reiterated:
भाई अगर अहमद पटेल और विकास बराला से टाइम मिल जाए तो हमारी धमकी पर seriously गौर कर लो
मजाक नहीं चल रिया है :((

(Translation: If you folks are done with Ahmed Patel and Vikas Barala, then please find some time to take our threats seriously. We are NOT joking :((


:rotfl:


You should read it with Jagdeep from SHolay -- Soorma Bhopali - dialogue delivery in mind.

Manish_Sharma
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4701
Joined: 07 Sep 2009 16:17

Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Manish_Sharma » 10 Aug 2017 11:06

Probably air combat might be witnessed with IAF conducting first strike on large scale troop mobilization on Chinese sides which when the cross the seven bridges will endager India's security and we might strike first ...


If this happens then it will be first time Bharatvarsh firing first bullet and taking initiative in any war , we will have crossed a big mental block as a collective consciousness. NaMo - Rawat - Doval are the perfect ones to do it.

Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 20879
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Philip » 10 Aug 2017 11:24

The PRC are weighing up their options as to where they can inflict a "lesson" to India with the least amt. of effort. Confronting India where we too have sufficient forces to deter any ground offensive,will prove very risky. An attacking force is supposed to have 3 times the strength of the defenders to be successful and in the high alt. of the Himalayas,sev. times more.Any major build up of its forces will be swiftly spotted by our sats and intel. It may try and use its special forces to administer the "lesson",in a strike similar to what we gave Pak,the "surgical" one,which provoked no great response militaire from the Pakis.

China does have sev. options,but these could escal;ate dangerously and what the Chins do not want is for the world to see their warships and merchantmen,"flaming pearls" in the IOR with a rampant IN striking at will anything that flies the Chinese flag. The capture of a tanker or two will be a signal message to the world at large of the limitations of the dragon's power Ideally,a swift surprise for India where they can hold onto some icy wastes preferable. Their latest dpl. gambit with Nepal indicates that they are preparing the ground for a (mis) adventure,brainwashing Nepal,etc. as to the legitimacy of their thievery and their latest attempt in the bullying of Bhutan.

While our attention is drawn towards the Himalayan heights,the GOI should kep a strenuous watch on what is happening in SRi Lanka.The Chin have got hold of H'tota in a revised agreement which still gives them 1000,hectares of land for 99 yrs! Their gameplan is to populate that zone with tens of thousands of Chinese,which along with the Port City project in Colombo,a stranglehold on the ghoolies of whichever GOSL is in power.Remember, India
was conquered by the British from the south,by the EIC setting up a trading factory on the Coromandel Coast at a place called Madraspatnam,later dominating Bengal,Oudh and the rest we know only too well.
The Chinese invasion of Sri Lanka has now been given an offical seal,what are we doing to counter it?

g.sarkar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2584
Joined: 09 Jul 2005 12:22
Location: MERCED, California

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby g.sarkar » 10 Aug 2017 11:33

kancha wrote:Teetar
Did my bit
Had to buy a new mobile .. ordered a Samsung cell 'coz NOT CHINESE
#MoneyWellSpent

Great. Back in 1962, I was 8 years old, but could read Bengali newspapers and kept up with the war. We were living in Rourkela. I do remember my father's Punjabi co-worker's mother who was about 70 years old that time. She was knitting woolen pullovers for the Jawans who were not adequately clothed. She showed me her work. The Indian military told her what color the sweaters should be and the number (size) on the knitting needles. She went out and purchased wool according to specifications. She told me that she was going to knits as long as she had fingers. She had also vowed never to buy Chinese, gaddars as she called them. I must have been impressed as I still remember so many years later. Personal boycott of Chinese made products have happened before, and it will happen again if war starts. I have no doubt about it.
Gautam

williams
BRFite
Posts: 518
Joined: 21 Jun 2006 20:55

Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby williams » 10 Aug 2017 11:34

In 1962 Chinese started the attack in October and declared ceasefire in November. Perhaps they did it close to winter to avoid Indian counter offensive. In my mind, irrespective of who fires the first bullet, it is the next set of steps that is more important. We should not just give a bloody nose to the Chinese, it is important we have clear strategic politico-military objectives that can be achieved before external powers/UN gets involved.

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Singha » 10 Aug 2017 11:38

the time has come to occupy small bits and pieces of cheen territory in akshai chin to force them to costly mobilization and keep our initiative. let them mobilize there and stay one winter to get the fun of it. morale should go sky high for next summer.

right now they are free to engage and disengage and we are merely reactive mode.

since the entire border is disputed let us start the game in aksai chin which is sovereign indian territory captured in 1962 war and never returned to us.

for too long have they gone away with cheap miscreancy while we over react - lets return the favour at a 100 satyagraha points. this time out Forward Policy is backed up by real teeth. let us force them to rapid deploy their feared 32 divisions, 500 fighters and 2nd artillery in tibet for one winter and watch the fun :lol:

Iyersan
BRFite
Posts: 485
Joined: 19 Sep 2016 16:13

Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Iyersan » 10 Aug 2017 11:45

Indian Army Orders People Near Doklam to Vacate Their Village
http://www.news18.com/news/india/indian ... 87673.html

New Delhi: The Indian Army has ordered the evacuation of a village close to the Doklam India-Bhutan-China tri-junction.
According to sources, a few hundred villagers living in Nathang village have been asked to vacate their houses immediately. Nathang is 35 km from the site of the two-month old standoff between Indian and Chinese troops.

It was not immediately clear if the order had been issued to accommodate thousands of soldiers of the 33 Corp who are reportedly moving from Sukna towards Doklam or whether it was a precautionary measure to avoid civilian casualties in case of a skirmish.

Villagers of Nathang, a small village with just a few hundred inhabitants, whom News18 spoke to, confirmed witnessing heavy troop movement in the area of late.

While the Army officially did not talk about the troop movement, some senior military officers called it an annual exercise that takes place in September, but has been advanced this year.

According to some reports, the Indian Army has called the troop movement in the area a regular maintenance move. The reports went on to quote army sources as saying that the military is in a 'no war, no peace' mode.

This, in military parlance, means being in a confrontational position with the enemy.

The state-controlled Chinese media has in the last few weeks been beating war drums quite incessantly. In a recent editorial published in China Daily, India was warned that “the countdown to a clash between the two forces has begun”.

The editorial, titled New Delhi should come to its senses while it has time, went on to state that the window to peacefully resolve the standoff in Doklam was closing as the row enters its seventh week.

“The countdown to a clash between the two forces has begun, and the clock is ticking away the time to what seems to be an inevitable conclusion.”

This is just one of the several vitriolic articles that have appeared in Chinese news agency Xinhua and their newspaper Global Times, in recent past.

The face-off between Indian and Chinese troops though is two months old now.

It started in mid-June in Doklam tri-junction when Indian troops stopped the Chinese army from building a road in the disputed area. China building a road on that site, India feared, would allow Chinese troops to cut India’s access to its northeastern states.

As per China's claims, it was constructing the road within its own territory.

Since the standoff, India has constantly batted for a dialogue but China has demanded immediate and unconditional withdrawal of Indian troops before a dialogue or peace process is initiated.

Muns
BRFite
Posts: 294
Joined: 02 Mar 2001 12:31

Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Muns » 10 Aug 2017 11:48

Doklam standoff: India China border dispute: 2017 is not 1962.

http://www.india-aware.com/doklam-standoff-india-china-border-dispute-2017-not-1962/

Indian artillery guns have not been shifted to their emplacements near the site of the standoff between Indian and Chinese troops in the disputed Doklam Plateau, a part of Bhutan, which is located East of Sikkim.

According to sources, this is a clear indicator that a military escalation between the Chinese and Indian Army seems unlikely at the moment. Also, there are no signs of a significant Chinese military buildup in the region as both New Delhi and Beijing look to find a peaceful solution to the situation in Doklam, potentially the gravest crisis between the two countries since the 1962 war.

The military debacle of 1962 sparked a comprehensive overhaul of India’s army. Today India is a nuclear armed power with the third largest army in the world and an air force and navy comparable to world standards. The military disparity of 1962 has all but vanished. The India of 2017 is no pushover.

Barely five years after 1962, Indian forces inflicted a crushing defeat on the Chinese army during a border skirmish at Nathu La and Cho La; over 400 Chinese soldiers died compared to 80 to 100 Indian casualties; a clear reflection of the changing military equation between China and India.

India’s trump card is its logistic geographical advantage that has the potential to strangle China’s military thrust and disrupt its economy.

China imports over half of its oil from Venezuela and oil-rich nations in Africa and the Middle East.80 percent of this oil transits the Indian Ocean and the Straits of Malacca, a ‘choke point’ that India has the ability to exploit with its powerful naval base in the Andaman islands.

The war at sea would be the decisive front in a conflict between the two countries. Sitting astride the Indian Ocean, India lies on China’s jugular vein. The Indian Navy, with its force of submarines, aircraft carrier the INS Vikramaditya and surface ships could easily curtail the flow of trade between China and Europe, the Middle East, and Africa.

India is blessed by favorable nautical geography. The subcontinent juts into the Indian Ocean, adjoining potential battlegrounds in the Bay of Bengal and Arabian Sea. Its geographical layout amplifies the advantages of the interior lines. Furthermore, New Delhi is sovereign over the Andaman and Nicobar Islands, an island chain thwart the western approaches to the Strait of Malacca. Suitably fortified with missiles, aircraft, and ships, the island chain would constitute a barrier to east-west Chinese maritime movement ,enfeebling any force that ventures onto India’s turf.

Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 20879
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Philip » 10 Aug 2017 11:52

Just two? Wait for Mr.Modi to be No.3! The prime reason why China has not aggravated the situ thus far could be this increasingly dangerou crisis between the US and NoKo which dwarfs anything that might happen between India and China ,sparring over a tiny piece of Himalayan wasteland. The US has dragged China into the NoKo spat believing that China could deter NoKo and its mercurial "young 'Un" into climbing down from his death wish diplomacy.In this,Dear Young Leader Kim,is only following Chairman Mao's advice,that "a loud fart is better than a long speech".
His farting in the face of the Donald,has brought out some extreme statements from that worthy,sending XI Gins rushing to the bar cabinet for a stiff double.In the priority of matters,Doklan,while still most sensitive to the Chinese,is of far lesser importance than the showdown between the Donald and the Dear Leader Kim.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... im-jong-un
China has been given two headaches – Donald Trump and Kim Jong-un
Beijing unlikely to be happy with president’s outburst over North Korea and some observers now feel China should push back against US

Donald Trump and Kim Jong-Un
Donald Trump has lobbed a verbal hand grenade on China’s doorstep in his crusade against North Korea’s leader, Kim Jong-Un. Composite: Getty

Tom Phillips in Beijing
Wednesday 9 August 2017 16.06 BST Last modified on Wednesday 9 August 2017 18.50 BST
For months the US’s Twitter-happy commander-in-chief has battled to convince Beijing to join his crusade against Kim Jong-un – and on Saturday he seemed to finally make headway.

After China backed a unanimous security council vote targeting Pyongyang, he bragged to his 35 million followers:

Less than 72 hours later, however, and the mercurial US president looked to have repaid China’s support by lobbing a verbal hand grenade on to its doorstep from the comfort of a New Jersey golf club.

“North Korea best not make any more threats to the United States [or] they will be met with fire and fury like the world has never seen,” Trump told reporters.

The comments are likely to have enraged China’s communist rulers as much as they delighted headline-writer
Donald Trump vows to answer North Korea nuclear threats with 'fire and fury'

John Delury, a China and North Korea expert from Yonsei University in Seoul, said Pyongyang would relish Trump’s incendiary remarks, which reinforced its claim to be under siege by the US.

But China, which saw support for the latest UN sanctions as a big concession, would be less amused. “Trump, after running a victory lap, now unleashes this verbal tirade, heightening all the tensions … It does not play well with Beijing,” Delury said.

Beijing responded to Trump’s green-side declaration with a brief foreign ministry statement. It called on “all parties to avoid any words or actions that might escalate the situation” and said “even greater efforts” were now needed to solve the issue.

But Shi Yinhong, a foreign policy adviser to China’s cabinet-like state council, said Trump’s “extremely threatening words” – which he believed also partly targeted China – would be a great disappointment to the Chinese president, Xi Jinping, who had been seeking to help his US counterpart.

Facebook Twitter Pinterest
Trump threatens North Korea with ‘fire and fury’
“[Trump’s] language is very provocative,” said Shi, an international relations specialist at Renmin University in Beijing.

“It’s 30% serious and 70% rhetoric. But Kim Jong-un is a paranoid guy so this kind of language and threat might have some unfortunate effect [in terms of triggering] … some undesirable preemptive action.”

Since his inauguration in January, Trump has attempted to coax Xi into doing more to help him tackle what he has called “the menace of North Korea”.

“North Korea is behaving very badly … China has done little to help!” he wrote on Twitter in March. In April, Trump tweeted:

Last month, following North Korea’s first intercontinental ballistic missile test, Trump tweeted:“Perhaps China will put a heavy move on North Korea and end this nonsense once and for all!”

Trump has admitted he has refrained from challenging China over trade in order to secure its help and on the eve of Saturday’s UN vote, US officials delayed the expected announcement of an investigation into alleged intellectual property abuses that some feared could spark a trade war.

Shi said Xi had been trying to cooperate, pointing to China’s support for the recent UN sanctions. Beijing had hoped such actions and the use of quiet diplomacy could help defuse the current crisis. “But Trump’s statement goes in totally the opposite direction,” Shi added, calling for Chinese moves to challenge the White House.

“Chinese pressure has only been directed at North Korea. We should balance it and also put some pressure on the US because the danger is coming from both sides,” Shi said.

“China should issue a statement – just like it did a few years ago – saying: ‘Anyone who wants to make fire and fury on China’s doorstep will not be permitted [to do so].’”

Delury said Trump’s inflammatory proclamation would complicate his efforts to get China on board.

“What he literally did is he threatened war if North Korea continues to threaten the US – that’s what is wild about this comment. That is not a good move if you are trying to keep the Chinese on your side because they give credence to the North Korean view that the reason for the nuclear deterrent in the first place is the American threat. And they would not see military action as being justified by any North Korean rhetoric.

“From a Chinese perspective, [Trump] is the one who has escalated.”

However, Cheng Xiaohe, a North Korea specialist at Renmin University, said Beijing’s ire would also be directed at Pyongyang.

Cheng said Trump’s anger at Kim Jong-un’s “utterly intolerable” behaviour was understandable and believed China would be furious at North Korea’s “irrational and unwise” provocations. “Playing with fire with a superpower can eventually get you burned,” he warned.

“Trump has sent a clear message which carries weight: [that] the US is ready to use force … Trump’s team has yet to be fully formed but he is surrounded – and greatly influenced by – generals … so if the US does resort to force in the end, he has a bunch of people who have been to war before.”

Cheng said China now needed to intensify its push for a diplomatic solution while also stepping up pressure on Pyongyang. “I’m quite certain that the soft approach towards North Korea has failed.”

The crisis represents a severe headache for Xi, who is gearing up for two crucial and politically sensitive events in the second half of this year.

Before the year is out Trump is expected to visit China, amid warnings that ties between the world’s top two economies have reached a historic “pivot point”. This autumn Beijing hosts a key Communist party summit marking the end of Xi’s first five-year term, at which he hopes to tighten his grip on power by installing loyalists in key positions.

Shi said China’s leader needed to push back against Trump, despite concerns about the “negative impact” the Korean crisis might have on preparations for the congress. “If there is a military conflict this will have a big, big negative impact.”

Additional reporting by Wang Zhen

Iyersan
BRFite
Posts: 485
Joined: 19 Sep 2016 16:13

Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Iyersan » 10 Aug 2017 11:58

Philip wrote:.[b]In this,Dear Young Leader Kim,is only following Chairman Mao's advice,that "a loud fart is better than a long speech".
His farting in the face of the Donald,has brought out some extreme statements from that worthy,sending XI Gins rushing to the bar cabinet for a stiff double.In the priority of matters,Doklan,while still most sensitive to the Chinese,is of far lesser importance than the showdown between the Donald and the Dear Leader Kim.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... im-jong-un
[b]


"a loud fart is better than a long speech". ---> China all the way :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

g.sarkar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2584
Joined: 09 Jul 2005 12:22
Location: MERCED, California

Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby g.sarkar » 10 Aug 2017 12:28

http://www.financialexpress.com/india-n ... am/801614/
HomeIndia news Sikkim standoff: Red alert for India as China increases military presence at Doklam
Doklam standoff: In a stern message to India, China has stepped up its troop presence at Doklam. Beijing has come up with around 80 tents for the People’s Liberation Army (PLA) troopers at a distance of around one km from Dolam plateau, north of Doka La post.
By: FE Online | New Delhi | Updated: August 10, 2017 8:26 AM
Doklam standoff: In a stern message to India, China has stepped up its troop presence at Doklam, according to Indian Express. Beijing has come up with around 80 tents for the People’s Liberation Army (PLA) troopers at a distance of around one km from Dolam plateau, north of Doka La post. However, the number of soldiers in the area is likely to be less than 800, IE report says. The number suggests that the neighbouring has not deployed a full PLA infantry battalion yet. Notably, the ongoing standoff had begin seven weeks back. Apart from this around 300 PLA soldiers are deployed at the ground zero. Indian Army has so far kept around 350 soldiers in nearly 30 tents. According to the report, there was no movement from the other side that has been tracked by jawans.
Meanwhile, the Army has also advanced its schedule for Operational Alert, popularly called Op Alert, for units of 33 Corps. 33 Corps has been looking after Sikkim’s border with China. An Op Alert is a two-week long annual training event in which all Army units move to familiarise themselves with their likely area of operation. The two-week period does not include the time for movement and acclimatisation for deployment at higher altitudes. The drill is usually held late September or early October but has been advanced to early August.
....

Gautam

yensoy
BRFite
Posts: 1811
Joined: 29 May 2002 11:31
Location: USA

Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby yensoy » 10 Aug 2017 12:35

Liu wrote:it is reported that chinese citizens in india now start retreating.


Liu bhayya here is the source of your news

http://www.shanghaidaily.com/metro/society/Taxi-driver-held-for-spreading-rumors/shdaily.shtml

Taxi driver held for spreading rumors
By Gloria Chen | 00:01 UTC+8 August 10, 2017 | PRINT EDITION
A local taxi driver has been punished after spreading a rumor over China-India border tensions, Shanghai police said yesterday.

The driver, a 46-year-old man surnamed Cheng from Chongming District, was sentenced to five days’ detention for spreading a rumor in WeChat groups last Sunday that China’s Foreign Ministry had started to evacuate Chinese nationals from India and that “a large amount of flights” would be arriving at Shanghai’s two airports from Sunday afternoon.
...

Cheng is alleged to have said he spread the rumors to show off his knowledge of news and because he was bored.

I think Eleven also wants to show off his knowledge of military stuff and he is bored.

SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 24097
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby SSridhar » 10 Aug 2017 13:01

Bhutan rejects Beijing’s claim that Doklam belongs to China - ANI
The Government of Bhutan on Thursday pointedly refuted a Chinese foreign ministry claim that Bhutan had conveyed through diplomatic channels to China that the trilateral border stand-off area in Doklam in the Sikkim sector is not its territory.

Official sources in the Bhutanese Government told ANI over phone, “Our position on the border issue of Doklam is very clear. Please refer to our statement which has been published on the web site of Bhutan’s foreign ministry on June 29, 2017.”

The Bhutanese sources were responding to a stunning, but unsubstantiated claim made by China’s top diplomat, Wang Wenli, that Bhutan had conveyed to Beijing through the diplomatic channels that the area of the standoff was not its territory.

Wang, who is the Deputy Director General of the Department of Boundary and Ocean Affairs in China’s foreign ministry, reportedly conveyed this information to a visiting Indian media delegation on Wednesday.

She, however, did not provide any evidence of her claim, which official sources in Bhutan said is at complete variance with Thimphu’s stated position and actions.


So, who is a 'liar' now?

Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 20879
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Philip » 10 Aug 2017 13:59

Situ appears not good.Signals not positive. Has XI GIns come to the conclusion that a spat with India will take the heat off the NoKo-US sabre-rattling ,where China is seen as the impotent potentate,unable to bring to heel its infinitely smaller spoilt brat?

Time for us to also ramp up our mil preparations,esp. with a view to exterminating any PLAN naval assets/merchantmen flying the red flag in the IOR.

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Singha » 10 Aug 2017 14:03

a indian aaj tak journo sneaked past a lot of bhutanese checks to Haa on the border despite having a permit only upto Paro
http://www.dailyo.in/voices/i-travelled ... 18794.html
https://twitter.com/manogyaloiwal?ref_s ... r%5Eauthor

bhutanese govt seems very jumpy about anyone going into that region.

IA and royal bhutan army rule the roost there and tourists not welcome

pankajs
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14468
Joined: 13 Aug 2009 20:56

Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby pankajs » 10 Aug 2017 14:04

The signal from India is contain the conflict. We will face them on the doklam plateau.

There is no reason to do anything in Aksi Hind or IOR.

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Singha » 10 Aug 2017 14:07

i am supporting DT not to consult soko/japan but go ahead with B2 strikes and then dare Noko to respond with their meager long range missiles - make them waste it on well defended places like Guam and dare them to use nuclear weapons. establish the causus belli needed to take out the Noko leadership. he is just the right guy not to get intimidated by noko posturing. and he has a tendency to lash out.

once the leadership is gone the Noko army will fall over themselves to throw down weapons and welcome Soko style rule into Noko. why fight over a bag of rice when pasta and cake is available from Seoul?

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Singha » 10 Aug 2017 14:18

large indian joint training base in Haa bhutan , right in the open near hotels


https://earth.google.com/web/@27.371127 ... 61239t,-0r

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Singha » 10 Aug 2017 14:25

the forbidding road leading back from tawang to the Se La pass

it could be much straightened and improved with proper civil works imo
https://earth.google.com/web/@27.507080 ... 613068t,0r

schinnas
BRFite
Posts: 1735
Joined: 11 Jun 2009 09:44

Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby schinnas » 10 Aug 2017 15:01

At this point, we need creative solutions that can ensure H&D of China while also addressing the core concerns of India and Bhutan and avoid a conflict, which has potential to escalate. It can also be a net positive for Bhutan.

China enters into a deal with Bhutan to get an equivalent area in north east bhutan that is already disputed by Bhutan and withdraws its claim to Dolam plateau in a grand gesture towards its smaller neighbor. Additionally, for all the trouble caused to Bhutan, China provides interest free loan of $5B aid to Bhutan to improve its infrastructure and tourism industry. With this, China gives up any additional claims to Bhutanese territory and concludes a full boundary agreement. Bhutan and India praise China's mature behavior fetting a great power and it is repeatedly shown to Aam Chens in Chinese media to save its H&D. Bhutan is happy to resolve its boundary issue and get out of cross hairs between two big neighbors and has a large aid money to use for economic development.

Bhutan give Dholam plateau to India in exchange for equivalent land towards its east. This can be done quietly after a few months and may go unreported in Chinese media.

India is happy to get soverign control over strategically important territory.

Bhutan is happy to resolve all its boundary issues with China. Of all the 3 areas contested by China, it gives only one small part and concludes the deal.

China would retain its H&D intact and make peace in an area it cannot militarily wrest control of. It lives to focus its energies on the disputes over CPEC, Aksai Chin and Tawang.

schinnas
BRFite
Posts: 1735
Joined: 11 Jun 2009 09:44

Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby schinnas » 10 Aug 2017 15:07

Singha wrote:i am supporting DT not to consult soko/japan but go ahead with B2 strikes and then dare Noko to respond with their meager long range missiles - make them waste it on well defended places like Guam and dare them to use nuclear weapons. establish the causus belli needed to take out the Noko leadership. he is just the right guy not to get intimidated by noko posturing. and he has a tendency to lash out.

once the leadership is gone the Noko army will fall over themselves to throw down weapons and welcome Soko style rule into Noko. why fight over a bag of rice when pasta and cake is available from Seoul?


Strategically, eliminating buffer state of NoKo will be a big strategic loss for China which will put US forces right next to its doorstep very near to its economically critical coastal belt. US can expand its ballistic missile shield in Korea to further neuter Chinese missile thread to mainland US.

Economically, an united Korea can emerge as a manufacturing powerhouse with all the cheap labor provided by impoverished North Koreans and technical know how, investment and logistics provided by South Koreans. Many Japanese manufacturing plants in China can be moved over to the united Korea with competitive labor rates.

How this would benefit India? This will increase Chinese insecurity on its eastern front leaving it less likely for chinese misadventure on its western theatre.


Return to “Trash Can Archive”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 35 guests