Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

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UlanBatori
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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby UlanBatori » 19 Aug 2017 04:52

AoA! That was stunning!!!!! :eek: Ravish Bhatia did a super job. Interesting designation: research fellow, university of PEE_KING!!! But did you listen to the bibi-ul-lizardi? She sounded actually like she has a brain, and could pretend to be reasonable!! BTW, note that she had a notepad in front of her, was reading from a sclipt.
IOW, the lizardullah-e-gobarcrimes seems to be under ORDERS to backpedal, BIGTIME!!! What a sea-change from just a few days ago when he was bullying, etc etc. Now seems hugely chastised, (the incentive of a 20-year vacation in Gobistan does that to better people than he.)
Asking:
Do u think Indian and Chinese leaders can talk on the sidelines of BRIC, please, please, PLEASE??? Hain? Please? :(( :((
:rotfl:
Last edited by UlanBatori on 19 Aug 2017 06:30, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby g.sarkar » 19 Aug 2017 06:20

That was quick:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/worl ... 127537.cms
China rebukes Japan for comment on Doklam
TNN & Agencies | Updated: Aug 19, 2017, 03:27 AM IST
BEIJING: Annoyed by Japan's support for the Indian position that China had unilaterally sought to alter the status quo in Doklam, Beijing has asked Tokyo "not to make random comments before clarifying relevant facts".
Japan's ambassador to India Kenji Hiramatsu had said on Thursday that the region under scrutiny was disputed, and supported the view that no unilateral steps should be taken to change the ground situation.
This was in sync with India's argument that the road building activity attempted by China in Doklam was unilateral, violative of Bhutanese sovereignty, and adversely affected India's security concerns. It also violated the agreement reached between Indian and Chinese special representatives. "I have seen the Japanese ambassador in India really wants to support India. I want to remind him not to randomly make comments before clarifying relevant facts," China's foreign ministry spokesperson Hua Chunying said, according to an IANS report. She sought to counter Hiramatsu. "In the Donglang (Doklam) area, there is no territorial dispute. And the boundary has been delimited and recognised by the two sides," Hua said, reiterating China's standard position since the standoff came to light. "The attempt to change the status quo by trespass in the boundary is by India, not China," the spokesperson added.
....

Gautam

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Prem » 19 Aug 2017 06:46

https://www.lowyinstitute.org/the-inter ... do-pacific

How India and the US can lead in the Indo-Pacific

Although the Pacific and Indian Oceans have traditionally been viewed as separate bodies of water, India and the US increasingly understand them as part of a single contiguous zone. The US Maritime Strategy (2015), for example, labels the region the 'Indo-Asia-Pacific', while Prime Minister Narendra Modi and President Donald Trump referred to it in their recent joint statement as the 'Indo-Pacific.'India and the US have a strong stake in seeing this unified vision become a reality. It would increase the possibility that they could promote liberal norms and structures such as free markets, rule of law, open access to commons, and deliberative dispute resolution not just piecemeal across the oceans, but rather in a single institutional web from Hollywood to Bollywood and beyond. Given the region’s economic and demographic dynamism and the importance of its sea lanes to global trade and energy flows, the significance of such a liberal outcome cannot be overstated.India and the US have publicly called Indo-US cooperation the lynchpin of their strategy in the region. But it has not been as productive as it could be. Robust maritime cooperation between the two countries began only after the 2004 Indian Ocean tsunami, which demonstrated the increasing capabilities of the Indian Navy. Even since then, however, India has generally not been a proactive partner, and in fact often has refused US offers of cooperation. In some cases it appears to have done so out of concern for Chinese sensibilities. For instance, a senior Indian official recently suggested that New Delhi had rejected numerous US Navy requests to dock ships at the Andaman Islands in part because of China’s 'displeasure' about the US presence in the Indian Ocean.
The US, for its part, has repudiated the Trans-Pacific Partnership, once touted as the economic bedrock of its Asia strategy, and is distracted by Russian machinations in Europe and the Middle East, and the continuing war in Afghanistan. In addition, bureaucratic divisions between US Central and Pacific Commands hamper Indo-US cooperation west of the Indo-Pakistan border, where the US-Pakistan relationship dominates.

China has taken the real initiative in constructing a wider Indo-Asia-Pacific region. Its strategy is multi-faceted. China erodes the autonomous politics of sub-regional groupings, using its economic leverage to create differences amongst ASEAN members, denying strategic space to India through economic projects like the China Pakistan Economic Corridor, and using North Korea to limit Japanese and US influence in East Asia. China also employs institutions like the Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank, construction and finance projects linked to the Belt and Road Initiative, and trade agreements such as the Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership to create a network of physical infrastructure and strategic dependence across the region. This network includes ports in Malaysia, Sri Lanka, Tanzania and Pakistan; oil and gas projects off the coast of Myanmar; and a military base in Djibouti.China's strategy will increasingly put it in a position to create institutions, generate norms, and make and enforce rules in a zone stretching from East Asia to East Africa. Although Chinese preferences are uncertain, it seems unlikely that such a Sino-centric model will adhere to the liberal norms and practices that the US and India hope will take root in the Indo-Asia-Pacific. Indeed, Chinese behaviour, which includes territorial reclamations, rejection of maritime-dispute arbitration, establishment of an air-defence identification zone, and confrontations such as the ongoing Sino-Indian standoff over borders in Bhutan, suggest an authoritarian approach to the region.Recognition of these dangers has been a central driver of US-India strategic cooperation. If the US-India partnership is to confront them effectively, however, the two countries must think more creatively about how better to work together, particularly in the defence sphere.

The core elements of Indo-US defence partnership include movement toward the adoption of common platforms and weapons systems as well as shared software and electronic ecosystems; closer cooperation on personnel training; and the convergence of strategic postures and doctrines. These elements can realise their full potential only if the two countries enable large-scale US-India data sharing, which will significantly enhance interoperability between their two militaries. This, in turn, will be possible only through the signature of the so-called Foundational Agreements, which provide a legal structure for logistical cooperation and the transfer of communications-security equipment and geospatial data.
India has historically resisted signing these agreements. But many Indian objections are rooted in domestic political calculations rather than substantive strategic concerns. Moreover, with the 2016 signature of the logistics agreement known as LEMOA, India may have crossed an initial hurdle. Perhaps a concerted effort to reconsider objectionable language, without fundamentally altering their substance, could make the remaining agreements palatable to Indian leaders. Given the impact this would have on India’s ability to cooperate with the US to meet the Chinese challenge, it could get serious consideration in New Delhi.

India and the US can take a page from China’s military strategy. Much has been made of the dangers of China’s anti-access/area denial capabilities. But India can also leverage its geography to impede access to the Bay of Bengal and the Indian Ocean. For example, with US assistance, it could transform the Andaman and Nicobar islands into a forward-deployed base for surveillance and area-denial assets. This would exploit natural Indian advantages, hamper China’s ability to expand its reach and consolidate its gains across the region, and not require India to shoulder unrealistic burdens in far-off areas of operation.India and the US also need to take a diplomatic and developmental approach to the region that is geographically holistic and offers credible alternatives to Chinese projects; they should not adopt disparate strategies east and west of the Indian Ocean, or promote projects that are rhetorically attractive but lack financial and diplomatic ballast. Recent announcements of pan-regional projects such as the Indo-Japanese Asia-Africa Growth Corridor, and the revived US Indo-Pacific Economic Corridor and New Silk Road initiative, are welcome developments. It will be essential to ensure that these projects continue to receive adequate support, and to create synergies between them that can help to make the whole greater than the sum of its parts.
Additionally, India must cultivate political relationships in its close neighborhood with countries like Nepal, Sri Lanka, the Maldives and the ASEAN members to project its influence into the Indian Ocean. Regional states have already begun to fall prey to China’s 'debt trap’ diplomacy. For instance, Sri Lanka has struggled to service its debt owed to China for the construction of the US$1 billion Hambantota port, which has put the government in Colombo under considerable political and economic duress. India should offer its neighbors sustainable infrastructure projects and strong economic incentives that can provide an alternative. These efforts will be more likely to succeed if the US, Japan and Australia support them diplomatically and through co-investment in economic ventures.None of these measures will be easy to implement; they will face resource constraints, political opposition, and strategic competition. But the stakes – who gets to construct the legal, economic, and military architecture of an integrated Indo-Pacific region – are enormous. Without bold policy from the US and India, the answer will be China.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby NRao » 19 Aug 2017 07:46

Predictable article.

A few observations:

* East of Pakistan the equations of China-Pakistan-India and China-NK-US are, outside of geography, very, very similar. This should, very belatedly, dawn on the analysts in the US (China is THE problem. She can NOT help resolve these problems. Never.)
* PACOM had, about 10 years ago, proposed to absorb Pakistan and Afghanistan under its domain. The topic has sort of gone out of fashion. India needs to revive and push very hard. There is a small window within which it just may happen. CENTCOM has failed to make any progress, PACOM, given the natural dynamics, could/should have better performance. Of course Pakistan has been opposing that plan and has actually won that argument because of its relations with CENTCOM
*
In addition, bureaucratic divisions between US Central and Pacific Commands hamper Indo-US cooperation west of the Indo-Pakistan border, where the US-Pakistan relationship dominates

So true
* I just do not think economic proposals will matter too much at this point. China has done a great job on that front. The region needs some arm twisting and IMHO it has started with Doklam. Standing up to China - both militarily and economically - should do wonders. A very small step no doubt, but I fully expect everyone but Pakistan, within 5/10 years, to fall in line. But India does need to push and shove. No more "diplomacy" only
* I see the Japanese backing as the first of many steps. The great game has started, the ball is rolling. No turning back now. All or nothing


On a tangential note, IMVVVHO, Russia has been neutered. By none other than Trump. :(

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby DrRatnadip » 19 Aug 2017 08:21

http://m.indiatoday.in/lite/story/japan ... 28783.html

Why Japan lent support to India against China over Doklam standoff

China is seemingly losing the diplomatic 'war' over Doklam. Japan has become the third influential country in the world to back India's stand on Doklam standoff. In fact, Japan has shed the ambiguity that the US and the UK showed while backing India.

Japan's all out support for India has come about a month after leading Chinese daily the Global Times warned New Delhi against banking on Tokyo in the event of a conflict over Doklam issue.

And, here is Japan extending wholehearted support for India against Chinese aggressive posturing over Doklam. "India should by no means count on support from the US and Japan because their support is illusory," said an editorial in Global Times, a daily controlled by the Chinese government.

GROWING DIPLOMATIC SUPPORT FOR INDIA

Speaking at India Today Conclave in June, Defence Minister Arun Jaitley had said, "India of 2017 is different from India of 1962." The statement had come in the backdrop of Chinese rhetoric over Doklam standoff that India should learn from 1962 military debacle when the two countries fought a war.

China had taken the statement of the Defence Minister only in terms of India's military might but ignored the diplomatic prowess of India.


Though most of the European countries are on "wait and watch" mode over Doklam standoff, support seems to be growing for India. While the US and the UK backed India's stand of resolving the issue through dialogue while China pre-conditioned the talks with prior withdrawal of Indian troops from Doklam.
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JAPAN'S SUPPORT IS NO SURPRISE

But, Japan's support to India over Doklam standoff is not a surprise. In fact, it was Japan in January 2014 which asked India to forge a team to thwart Chinese expansionist moves in the East China Sea as well as in the Himalayas.
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JAPAN HAS ANOTHER REASON

Japan has another reason for supporting India against China. Beijing lays claim over its islands. In May this year, Japan scrambled its warplanes after four Chinese ships and a drone aircraft entered the Senkaku Islands.

Japan said that it was the first time Beijing has used an unmanned aircraft in Senkaku, which Chinese call as Diaoyu. Japan had then said that China was escalating the situation unilaterally and it was unacceptable to Tokyo. Japan understands that if China is allowed to have it say in Doklam, it may have to pay a price on Senkaku in the East China Sea.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby UlanBatori » 19 Aug 2017 08:45

Which is precisely Eleven's problem. If the Indian passive resistance mode succeeds in thwarting Chinese encroachment tactics against Bhutan, then other nations will also start doing the same, with security support from the US and maybe even India. I can imagine Japan, Indonesia and others simply sending their own troops to land in the chinese-occupied islands and pushing the Chinese out. No firing; just a quiet, passive landing and setting up shop. The whole SCS misadventure can unravel.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Singha » 19 Aug 2017 09:56

Japan and asean should start by building up reefs and artificial islands instead of invading chinese reefs
so far all they have done is complain than tit for tat

#weak

this will be treated with the contempt it deservers by the chinese

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Prem » 19 Aug 2017 10:18

Russia has said that the upcoming Russia-India military drills do not target China and expressed confidence that New Delhi and Beijing can resolve their border tensions. "Russia does not carry out military exercises or other cooperative events that may lead to worsening relations of a country we maintain multilateral ties with," Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova said on Thursday. Zakharova said Russia always provides all interested parties with comprehensive information "in order to stop any speculation on such issues as soon as possible", Xinhua news agency reported. As for the border standoff between India and China, she said: "We express absolute confidence that New Delhi and Beijing, as responsible members of the international community, will be able to find mutually acceptable ways to quickly resolve the tensions."


http://www.defencenews.in/article/Russi ... ina-283756

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Singha » 19 Aug 2017 10:49

cheen shock army attempts to invade india
https://www.facebook.com/VIPAutomobileU ... 890041098/

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby BSR Murthy » 19 Aug 2017 11:18

China appears to have realized that it lost its Psy war and Information war and may be coming to its senses. The tone and tenor of their presenter has changed significantly. Gone are the belligerent, belittling and condescending ways. Perhaps too soon to conclude, but, there appears to be a modicum of grudging respect and introspection on their part. A bombed racist video can do wonders in bringing out condemnation and disgust not just from Indians, but, many non-Indians worldwide.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby g.sarkar » 19 Aug 2017 12:53

http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report-in ... na-2534741
India's quiet move to outsmart China;
PM Modi calls Nepal counterpart, prepares to host Japan’s Abe
IFTIKHAR GILANI | Sat, 19 Aug 2017-07:53am , New Delhi , DNA
Ministry of External Affairs spokesperson Raveesh Kumar here said that India was consistently engaging with China to find a mutually acceptable solution to the stand-off
India has launched a high-level, quiet diplomatic campaign to put pressure on China through its neighbours to end a seven-week military stand-off at Doklam near Sikkim.
Prime Minister Narendra Modi made a telephone call to his Nepali counterpart Sher Bahadur Deuba on Friday. While the call was meant to convey condolences at the loss of life in Nepal due to recent widespread floods, the timing was significant as Deuba is beginning a five-day visit to India on August 23, his first foreign trip after his election two months ago. China has been making concerted efforts to woo Nepal, and its Vice Premier Wang Yang was in Kathmandu on August 14.
India is also preparing to host Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe in late September. As part of preparations, both countries held a cybersecurity dialogue on Friday. The dialogue which involved top security agencies of both countries is significant in the wake of increasing cyberattacks originating from China. In a statement issued by the Ministry of External Affairs (MEA), both sides reaffirmed their commitment to an open, free, secure, stable, peaceful, and accessible cyberspace, enabling economic growth and innovation.
....

Gautam

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Philip » 19 Aug 2017 15:04

He!He! Trump and Modi saying "Indo-Pacific".Where did you hear that expression first?
BRF ahead of the curve again.Time for the "Indo-China Sea" next!

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby sum » 19 Aug 2017 15:20

Did anyone see the stone pelting video between the 2 armies? Its on the Shatrujeet page on FB

Quite a lot of stoning and one of the Indian soldier flattened a Chinese guard with a flying kick :shock:

Looks like quite a serious scuffle and a single gunshot could have escalated quickly

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Manish_Sharma » 19 Aug 2017 15:25

Philip wrote:He!He! Trump and Modi saying "Indo-Pacific".Where did you hear that expression first?
BRF ahead of the curve again.Time for the "Indo-China Sea" next!


I remember it was you Philip Saar who used this term on BRF, congratulations truly ahead of curve:


Image

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby DrRatnadip » 19 Aug 2017 15:30

sum wrote:Did anyone see the stone pelting video between the 2 armies? Its on the Shatrujeet page on FB

Quite a lot of stoning and one of the Indian soldier flattened a Chinese guard with a flying kick :shock:

Looks like quite a serious scuffle and a single gunshot could have escalated quickly


I saw it sir..It clearly shows chinis running for lives :rotfl: :rotfl:

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Re: Neutering seems to be& defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby sum » 19 Aug 2017 15:35

There definitely seems to be some ToT by Pakis on stone throwing since it was giving me a Kashmir redux

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Singha » 19 Aug 2017 15:57

The indians looked like seasoned brawlers from tough govt schools .. some good slaps and kicks and the red manchu bannerman got some good thrashing also . Will be nursing his backside in a sling for some time

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby sudhan » 19 Aug 2017 15:59

Good lord! Our boys are quite handy in a bare knuckles brawl. The flying kick mentioned by sum was brilliant! Nailed a stone chuckers mush. Downhill skiing was prompt. Note how our boys rushed into the fight while they scatterred. First pelting, now downhill skiing.. pak all the way..

How does one save face after eating a flying kick to the mush?

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby kit » 19 Aug 2017 16:03

gauravsh wrote:Meanwhile ...... :D :D :D
http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/indias-new-move-with-brahmos-cruise-missile-likely-to-anger-china-1739183?pfrom=home-lateststories
Senior Vietnamese journalists have indicated to NDTV that the first batch of missiles arrived a few days ago.



In that case the MEA seems to have mastered the art of " plausible deniability " :((

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby kit » 19 Aug 2017 16:05

sum wrote:Did anyone see the stone pelting video between the 2 armies? Its on the Shatrujeet page on FB

Quite a lot of stoning and one of the Indian soldier flattened a Chinese guard with a flying kick :shock:

Looks like quite a serious scuffle and a single gunshot could have escalated quickly



could some one please post a link to the video ? .. me no FB a/c

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby kit » 19 Aug 2017 16:09


kit
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Re: Neutering seems to be& defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby kit » 19 Aug 2017 16:11

sum wrote:There definitely seems to be some ToT by Pakis on stone throwing since it was giving me a Kashmir redux



for sure the Indians gave those Chinese a sound thrashing ! .. that video must go viral :mrgreen:

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby kit » 19 Aug 2017 16:11

Philip wrote:He!He! Trump and Modi saying "Indo-Pacific".Where did you hear that expression first?
BRF ahead of the curve again.Time for the "Indo-China Sea" next!


:mrgreen: :twisted:

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby sum » 19 Aug 2017 16:12

kit wrote:



In that case the MEA seems to have mastered the art of " plausible deniability " :((

Agree. Why should we not have mastered that art?

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby sum » 19 Aug 2017 16:15

Am now confused which side is Indian and which Chinese since half comments say right is Chinese and half say left!

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby kit » 19 Aug 2017 16:18

sum wrote:
kit wrote:

In that case the MEA seems to have mastered the art of " plausible deniability " :((

Agree. Why should we not have mastered that art?



that was sorely missing in the Congi era

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Prem Kumar » 19 Aug 2017 16:21

Hard to tell. But I see a man with a red flag on the left side

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby sum » 19 Aug 2017 16:25

I believe its not a flag but a banner (usually they read "you are on our territory. Go back".

I presume Chinese usually carry red banners and Indian white ( based on older pics).

If we know whose side lake is on, will know which side was on left (side of lake and entering into other side)

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby g.sarkar » 19 Aug 2017 16:46

http://www.sify.com/news/army-chief-gen ... ddicb.html]
Army Chief Gen Bipin Rawat to begin three-day visit to Ladakh on Sunday
Last Updated: Sat, Aug 19, 2017 14:03 hrs
[India], August 19 (ANI): Amid the Doklam standoff and the recent Pangong skirmish, Army Chief General Bipin Rawat will pay a three-day visit to Ladakh, beginning on Sunday, to review the security scenario in eastern Ladakh. During the visit, he will take stock of the security preparedness along the border with China besides, discussing key operational matters with top commanders. The visit comes days after Indian and Chinese boat patrols clashed at the Pangong Lake in Ladakh, even as the People's Liberation Army (PLA) declined the Indian invitation to participate in ceremonial border meetings on the occasion of India's 71st Independence Day. This was the first time since 2005 that the PLA has declined to meet with their Indian counterpart.
.....

The Chief is going to personally congratulate the jawans at the lake for thrashing the lizardlings.
Gautam

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby UlanBatori » 19 Aug 2017 16:54

Not so easy. Lake is in the shape of an L, with the horizontal part MUCH longer than vertical part. The incident occurred on "north shore". The LAC is well to the east of the vertical part (so both shores are inside India there) but then there is another LAC vertically down the horizontal part (eastern 2/3 of lake is in chinese hands). The incident report from IA (posted b4 here) said the Indians spread a banner in Mandarin saying "Go back to ur country" and the chinese started throwing stones. The red banner is probably Chinese though - I don't believe IA would go around waving a red banner in those parts.

Looked like the guys on the lowland (lakeshore) came up, scuffled, then suddenly ran back (may be as a result of an order).

Not clear to me who was who, and who kicked whose musharraf. This requires frame-by frame analysis with HawkEye.

At the end there was one man down near the right side of the image.

This requires the fine skills of the great Cartographer Shiv Al Photoshoppi to properly interpret.

It appears to be logical to assume that the video came from Indian side, and that was shot from the top of the cliff looking down. So the guys coming down from the cliff are presumably Indian. But why would they be carrying a RED banner?
Last edited by UlanBatori on 19 Aug 2017 17:00, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby kit » 19 Aug 2017 16:58

UlanBatori wrote:Not so easy. Lake is in the shape of an L, with the horizontal part MUCH longer than vertical part. The incident occurred on "north shore". The LAC is well to the east of the vertical part (so both shores are inside India there) but then there is another LAC vertically down the horizontal part (eastern 2/3 of lake is in chinese hands). The incident report said Indians spread a banner in Mandarin saying "Go back" and the chinese started throwing stones. The red banner is probably Chinese though - I don't believe IA would go around waving a red banner in those parts.

Looked like the guys on the lowland (lakeshore) came up, scuffled, then went back probably when an order was given to break up the melee.

Not clear to me who was who, and who kicked whose musharraf.

At the end there was one man down near the right side of the image.

This requires the fine skills of the great Cartographer Shiv Al Photoshoppi to properly interpret.


awaiting Shiv s pic from the video :mrgreen:

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Anurag » 19 Aug 2017 16:59

UlanBatori wrote:Not so easy. Lake is in the shape of an L, with the horizontal part MUCH longer than vertical part. The incident occurred on "north shore". The LAC is well to the east of the vertical part (so both shores are inside India there) but then there is another LAC vertically down the horizontal part (eastern 2/3 of lake is in chinese hands). The incident report said Indians spread a banner in Mandarin saying "Go back" and the chinese started throwing stones. The red banner is probably Chinese though - I don't believe IA would go around waving a red banner in those parts.

Looked like the guys on the lowland (lakeshore) came up, scuffled, then went back probably when an order was given to break up the melee.

Not clear to me who was who, and who kicked whose musharraf.

At the end there was one man down near the right side of the image.

This requires the fine skills of the great Cartographer Shiv Al Photoshoppi to properly interpret.


My take- I think the Chinese were to the left side. Their camo is lighter and that "flying kick" that came out from the left side looked more "Chinese" to me. I believe the man down was our guy.
Last edited by Anurag on 19 Aug 2017 17:00, edited 1 time in total.

kit
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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby kit » 19 Aug 2017 17:01

Anurag wrote:
UlanBatori wrote:Not so easy. Lake is in the shape of an L, with the horizontal part MUCH longer than vertical part. The incident occurred on "north shore". The LAC is well to the east of the vertical part (so both shores are inside India there) but then there is another LAC vertically down the horizontal part (eastern 2/3 of lake is in chinese hands). The incident report said Indians spread a banner in Mandarin saying "Go back" and the chinese started throwing stones. The red banner is probably Chinese though - I don't believe IA would go around waving a red banner in those parts.

Looked like the guys on the lowland (lakeshore) came up, scuffled, then went back probably when an order was given to break up the melee.

Not clear to me who was who, and who kicked whose musharraf.

At the end there was one man down near the right side of the image.

This requires the fine skills of the great Cartographer Shiv Al Photoshoppi to properly interpret.


My take- I think the Chinese were to the left side. Their camo is lighter and that "flying kick" that came out from the left side looked more "Chinese" to me. I believe the man down was our guy.


maybe .. the big boss coming down there means things are getting hot

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby shiv » 19 Aug 2017 17:02

UlanBatori wrote:The incident occurred on "north shore".

There are motorable Cheeni roads & bases on the North shore of Pangong and south shore of Spangur lake (a much smaller lake to the south). Spangur is smack bang opposite Chushul airstrip. The area between the two lakes is very rough and mountainous and whatever roads there are are very tortuous.

So "North shore" must mean Pangong

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby chola » 19 Aug 2017 17:06

FFFFT. Stone throwing and kung fu kicks? So laughable. At least with the pakis, it is bloody mano a mano combat. And we're the SDRE? Look at their masters!

At the paki forum, the TFTA and BDeshies who were creaming themselves over a chini-hindi fight are now starting to get pissed off by their all talk no action lizard overlords. Starting to see sniping that packees fight yindoos while chinis just jawbone.

Not as fun as watching the MSC roll through Tibet but this is good consolation prize if we forgo guaranteed victory to wait for first move which will never come from a non-warrior trader/shopkeeper nation like the PRC.

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby kit » 19 Aug 2017 17:10

chola wrote:FFFFT. Stone throwing and kung fu kicks? So laughable. At least with the pakis, it is bloody mano a mano combat. And we're the SDRE? Look at their masters!

At the paki forum, the TFTA and BDeshies who were creaming themselves over a chini-hindi fight are now starting to get pissed off by their all talk no action lizard overlords. Starting to see sniping that packees fight yindoos while chinis just jawbone.

Not as fun as watching the MSC roll through Tibet but this is good consolation prize if we forgo guaranteed victory to wait for first move which will never come from a non-warrior trader/shopkeeper nation like the PRC.


the Chinese seem more and more like that big bully who becomes scared when fought back !! .. interesting times ahead

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby tandav » 19 Aug 2017 17:12

It appeared that the Chinese side was on the left due to 4 reasons 1) Right side was holding white banner typically Indians 2) Forces on left were wearing ballistic helmets more closely resembling Chinese helmets. 3) Most of the Indian forces in that region wear white snow pants 4) I think there was a Chinese soldier who had high ground and kicked an Indian soldier down to the beach and used his advantage of altitude to throw a stone that injured an Indian soldier who fell down, the Chinese then retreated after Indians thought that the soldier was seriously injured and could have escalated. 4) incident was on the north shore of lake which means the video was shot facing/pointing South. Left is East held by China and Right is west held by India. Ofcourse this is just conjuncture from the video

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Bishwa » 19 Aug 2017 17:13

The accompanying text with the video posting says left is India and right is China.

"Stone pelting between Indian Army and Chinese border guards at Ladakh region.
To the left of the cliff: Indian Army
Right: PLA border guards
Courtesy: Prakash Katoch sir"

It seems in the end of the video, there is one man down ... on the right

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby ashish raval » 19 Aug 2017 17:39

Bishwa wrote:The accompanying text with the video posting says left is India and right is China.

"Stone pelting between Indian Army and Chinese border guards at Ladakh region.
To the left of the cliff: Indian Army
Right: PLA border guards
Courtesy: Prakash Katoch sir"

It seems in the end of the video, there is one man down ... on the right


Guess it is time to buy non lethal weapons for skirmishes then..stone throwers, sticks, rolling boulders, stun guns eek lol!!

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Re: Neutering & defeating Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby SriKumar » 19 Aug 2017 17:41

This stone throwing business is pretty nasty and brutal. Those 'stones' were likely small and mid-size rocks i.e. whatever fits in the palm of the hand, and at close quarters as it is here, it can cause serious injury. I'll take the word of the website that it was the Indians who kicked Chinese butt literally.

A few days ago, there was a statement from the Chinese foreign ministry that there was no incident at Ladakh (per Hindustan Times). This release of this video was probably meant to show up the Chinese govt lying about their knowledge of the event.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-new ... A7ZzI.html

On a different note, it is unlikely (per my reading anyway) that China will initiate hostilities before the BRICS Sept 3rd meeting, if they are to have any credibility with BRICS countries. Starting a war before that means that BRICS meeting will be canceled since China will not be able to guarantee the safety of any location in China (for that to happen, India has to provide that guarantee that some cities/areas/airspace is off limits), and which country's leader will travel to a warzone? And any consultation between other countries and India will also not occur in war breaks out. So, I think upto Sept 3rd, it is unlkely that war will initiate.

In fact, the more one thinks about it....it is very likely that leaders of other countries, Brazil, South Africa and Russia are going to cancel if the host country is at war. If China makes any move, it could come on or after that.
Last edited by SriKumar on 19 Aug 2017 17:57, edited 2 times in total.


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