Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

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Re: Neutering & defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Dumal » 02 Sep 2017 12:44

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: you guys should put these up in the comments to the news articles in the US.

SriKumar wrote:^^^ You seeeener. Nineth seen.
You forgot the great Dalai Lama event. The first Dalai Lama, His High Holiness in the 14th century had once visited Boston to admire the beautiful swamps by the sea. The place since then belong to China since wherever Dalai Lama visit/lived is Tibet, and Tibet has always been a part of China. The town of Boston has been referred to as Bo So Tan in Chinese maps since late 14th century, i.e. before the great sailor, Co Lam Bas first came to America. So it is the police who are trespassing.

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Re: Neutering & defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby g.sarkar » 02 Sep 2017 12:47

http://www.rediff.com/news/column/china ... 170831.htm
China: Why India must always be vigilant
August 31, 2017 10:15 IST
'The possibility of another incursion, a probing manoeuvre in areas where Indian defences are vulnerable cannot be ruled out,' says BharatShakti.in Co-Founder Nitin A Gokhale, the distinguished commentator on national security issues.
Multiple miscalculations on China's part led to Beijing painting itself in a corner over one of the longest standoffs in a series of such crises since the 1980s. While Sumdorung Chu episode in the mid-1980s took nearly eight years to be finally resolved, recent face-offs -- 2013, 2014 and this one in 2017 -- have ended relatively faster for two reasons: One, India's comprehensive national power has improved (relatively speaking), making it difficult for China to bully it over a prolonged period even though unarguably even China's economic and military capabilities have increased manifold. Two, domestic constituencies and the rise of multi-polarity has made it tougher for bigger powers to bully smaller neighbours.
But first the Chinese miscalculations.
One, Beijing did not expect India to cross the line and come to Bhutan's aid when it became apparent that the PLA was trying to alter the status quo.
Two, China took Bhutan for granted and thought Thimphu would succumb to its pressure tactics, but it did not.
Three, Beijing unleashed a three-pronged psychological warfare by deploying its shrill media, analysts and official spokespersons in trying to unsettle India.
But the Indian government adopted a mature, calm and assured approach refusing to take the Chinese bait, further infuriating Beijing. Despite Chinese provocations India kept the diplomatic engagement going stressing time and again that it was not spoiling for a fight but if push came to shove, it would not hesitate to meet force with force.
It took a sustained and often bruising spells of negotiations between diplomats from both sides paving the way for a win-win solution. Both sides refused to issue a joint statement, keeping the terms of disengagement vague so that both could claim 'victory' back home. It also helped that China is to host the BRICS summit in Xiamen.
Having invested vigourously in the BRICS platform, China could not afford India's absence at the summit even if the chances of that happening seemed remote. To be fair, New Delhi never ever indicated that it was even thinking on those lines.
In the end, China could claim to its citizens that it forced Indian troops out of its territory.
In return, it agreed to stop road construction, without saying it in so many words, a face saver India has been magnanimous in granting to China, having proved a point to China that New Delhi can longer be bullied.
So what are the long term implications of the Dolam episode?
To begin with, other smaller nations in China's neighbourhood would study the sequence of events and learn lessons from it in their future dealings with Beijing. Secondly, India will have to keep its guard up all along the contested border with China for the Chinese don't forget or forgive easily. The possibility of another incursion, a probing manoeuvre in areas where Indian defences are vulnerable cannot be ruled out in the medium term. Three, India may have had the military advantage in Dolam, but the prime minister and his national security adviser must make sure critical deficiencies are overcome expeditiously to allow the military to take on the future challenge from China.
The potential threat from a resurgent China will only increase in coming years.
.....

Gautam

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby SSridhar » 02 Sep 2017 12:54

India to repeat demand for anti-terror steps at BRICS - Dipanjan Roy Chaudhury, Economic Times

Will Xi Jinping try to rudely cut short Modi as that CGTN anchor Rui did to NDTV's Vishnu Som?

Being held in the shadow of Dokalam border standoff that led to tensions for 75 days between two of the five members of the BRICS, the forthcoming summit in Xiamen (September 3-5) has a special significance.

While all eyes will be on the meeting between PM Narendra Modi and Chinese President Xi Jinping, India will yet again reiterate the demand for concrete measures against terror infrastructure in Af-Pak region and seek broader action plan against worldwide extremism.

The MEA on Friday hinted that relevant global challenges including terror are on the table from the Indian side for the summit. When asked about China's comment on Thursday that it will not be appropriate to discuss Pakistan's counter-terrorism records, MEA spokesperson Raveesh Kumar said he cannot pre-empt what Modi will say during his interventions at the restricted and plenary sessions of the summit. But he was quick to state that India's position on terrorism has been very clear and it has been raising the issue at various multilateral forums.

Modi and Xi are expected to meet on Monday in the coastal city of Xiamen on the sidelines of the summit. The meeting is expected to be marked by discussions on CBMs as the two leaders may decide to have a new mechanism to address trijunctions along their Line of Actual Control. Besides Dokalam (Bhutan), the other two trijunctions that exist involve Nepal and Myanmar. The standoff ended on August 28.

Held against the backdrop of Xi’s mega OBOR initiative, New Delhi may express reservations at the summit on connectivity initiatives like OBOR that are being implemented in a unilateral and non-transparent fashion. All eyes will be on any reference by Modi at the summit plenaries on attempts to change status quo along disputed boundaries. The BRICS process, however, is expected to contribute to confidence building between neighbours.

Modi is also likely to meet the Russian President Vladimir Putin besides leaders of Egypt and Thailand who will be present as BRICS outreach format. Egypt, Thailand, Guinea (African Union chair), Tajikistan and Mexico will be China’s BRICS outreach for emerging markets. Modi may also meet presidents of Brazil and South Africa.

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Re: Neutering & defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby g.sarkar » 02 Sep 2017 14:33

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/worl ... 328019.cms
Russia refused to toe China line on Doklam: Envoy
Saibal Dasgupta | TNN | Updated: Sep 2, 2017, 08:33 IST
BEIJING: Russia took a neutral view of the Doklam issue and refused to be persuaded by Beijing's efforts to malign India. Moscow's attitude to the issue would have an influence on India-Russia relations, and on Prime Minister Narendra Modi's role at the BRICS summit+ , which will be attended by leaders of five countries -Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa--in the coastal Chinese city of Xiamen on Sunday.
Russia's neutrality was evident in comments made by the Russian ambassador in Beijing, Andrey Denisov, hours before India and China entered into an agreement to pull out troops and defuse the Doklam crisis+ on August 28.
"The situation in the India-China border is something that we all regret," Denisov told Russian journalists at a briefing in Beijing. "We think our Chinese and Indian friends can resolve the problem by themselves. We don't think they need any mediators who can influence their respective positions on the issue," the ambassador was quoted by the Russian media as saying.
"We can say that Russia is using its goodwill to both of these countries," he said signaling total neutrality.
Denisov's statement shows that two weeks of efforts by Chinese envoys to build a diplomatic front against India on the border issue was not having an impact even on Russia which is regarded to be closer to China compared to several western nations. The ambassador also indicated that Russia has played a role in world affairs whenever it could do so.
......

Gautam

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Re: Neutering & defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby SSridhar » 02 Sep 2017 14:43

g.sarkar wrote:
China: Why India must always be vigilant
It also helped that China is to host the BRICS summit in Xiamen.
Having invested vigourously in the BRICS platform, China could not afford India's absence at the summit even if the chances of that happening seemed remote. To be fair, New Delhi never ever indicated that it was even thinking on those lines.

That could be true.

After the OBOR refusal by India, in spite of repeated requests by China, it could not take another withdrawal by India, now from BRICS. Indian absence in BRICS would have been a deep blow for Chinese prestige. After all, BRICS is a Chinese push.

Though India did not talk openly about participation in BRICS, the ambiguous references made by MEA sokesperson regarding Modi's attendance should have caused concern in Beijing no doubt.

China has learnt that there are some limitations to its arrogant power projection and India is certainly one such.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby shiv » 02 Sep 2017 15:09

Chinese Dams in Tibet
https://youtu.be/IWxio36AIxE

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby SSridhar » 02 Sep 2017 15:40

Shiv, another great work. Much appreciated.

I have been following the Chinese damming projects after personally seeing the preliminary efforts at Zangmu in c. 2007 itself.

In October 2010, it started damming the Brahmaputra at Zangmu in Tibet for a hydroelectric project (510 MW). In October 2015, China operationalized its largest yet hydroelectric power project on the Brahmaputra with the commissioning of USD 1.5 billion Zam Hydropower Station at Zangmu, the largest in Tibet. In September, 2016, China announced a USD 740M project to dam the Xiabuqu River in Xigaze (Shigatse, close to Sikkim), a project known as Lalho project. The Xiabuqu river, 195-km long, flows from Bainang in Tibet northwards and joins the Yarlung Zangbo near Shigatse. The river's mean discharge is 25.8 cubic metres per second (cumecs), less than 0.15 per cent of the Brahmaputra's mean discharge when it enters India.

China is generally unwilling to reveal data about such projects that could affect lower riparian states. In February 2013, the Chinese media reported green signal from the State Council (or Cabinet) to build three hydroelectric power generating dams in the middle reaches (between Lhasa and the Great Bend of the Brahmaputra river). A 640 MW dam will be built in Dagu, which lies 18 km upstream of Zangmu. Another 320 MW dam will be built at Jiacha, downstream of Zangmu. A third dam will be built at Jiexu, 11 km upstream of Zangmu. The New Energy Development Plan announced in January, 2013 said the government “will push forward vigorously the hydropower base construction” on the middle reaches of the Yarlung Zangbo. We don't know how much effort has gone into these projects save for photographs from ISRO's EOSs or SAR.

The massive plan to divert the river waters from south to north have been temporarily on hold for sometime now after vigorous Indian protests. However, news emerged in late August 2013, that the Chinese had conducted three to four low-yield PNEs (Peaceful Nuclear Explosions) deep underground in c. 2005to divert Brahmaputra. It has been the Chinese plan to take the Brahmaputra to arid zones in the north by building a 200-km-long canal passing through Mount Namcha. Reacting to Indian concerns, the Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesperson said that China has “always taken a responsible attitude towards the utilisation and development of cross-border rivers.” Apart from making this customary statement, China has, however, shared little specific information about the status of approved or proposed new projects.

China has identified 39 damming projects over the Tsangpo. Apart from the few mentioned above and the three you mentioned on the contributaries of the Tsangpo, we have no clue what the rest of the 39 are.

In late December, 2016, Global Times suggested that the Lancang-Mekong cooperation (LMC) mechanism be used to resolve disputes along trans-boundary rivers covering China, Vietnam, Thailand, Laos and Cambodia should be used as a model for settling Brahmaputra issue too.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby UlanBatori » 02 Sep 2017 17:04

Re: Russian non-support of Chinese south-turning road-building in Doklam

This was unlike some ***western*** nations.

Specifically....... (as the Californian desi Bibi's video put it so accurately).. Pakistan, 0, 0 and 0.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Hari Seldon » 02 Sep 2017 17:13

Rumor is rife that certain PRC pressured North Indonesia sea rim countries are taking away one lesson from doklam - that they need noox to withstand dlagon plessure.

That list includes vietnam (duh), Japan (but of course), and *cough, cough* taiwan ... Onlee...

/rumor mode off.

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Re: Neutering & defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby UlanBatori » 02 Sep 2017 17:14

SriKumar wrote:^^^ You seeeener. Nineth seen.
You forgot the great Dalai Lama event. The first Dalai Lama, His High Holiness in the 14th century had once visited Boston to admire the beautiful swamps by the sea. The place since then belong to China since wherever Dalai Lama visit/lived is Tibet, and Tibet has always been a part of China. The town of Boston has been referred to as Bo So Tan in Chinese maps since late 14th century, i.e. before the great sailor, Co Lam Bas first came to America. So it is the police who are trespassing.


You seener Seeekh with Made In China Beard! Didn't yo momma teach yu to spill?

Great Chinese sailor's name was Ku Lom Bo ("My name is Chris") who originally named the port of Bo Zo Ton when his junk was blown off course on a trip from Shanghai to Hong Kong (his compass also said "Made In China" and his map, sadly, just showed one big red pattern everywhere, named "China"). All of America is Chinese Undisputed Territory. Look at the roads already built - can that happen anywhere except in China? Do you know how many Re-Education Camps are needed to build such roads?

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby anupmisra » 02 Sep 2017 17:27

Pakistan will be defended, announces China

China on Thursday sent out a signal that it would defend Pakistan and would object to any discussion about Pakistan’s role in sheltering terrorists during the upcoming BRICS summit, which would be attended by Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi, foreign media reported.
China is worried Modi may raise the issue at the meeting because he did so at the Goa summit of BRICS last year while describing Pakistan as the “mother-ship of terrorism”.
I don’t think this is an appropriate topic to be discussed at BRICS summit,” Hua Chunying, Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesperson, said at a briefing.
Chinese leaders may be forced to defend its close ally, Pakistan


Yes! Yeh Kya Hua Chun Mun speaks from her heart. "She feels" that chinasthana may be "forced" to defend "its most loyalest loyalist" bilathel from another mothel, Bājīsītǎn, like a common pimp who is forced to protect his property's virtue from slander. Eleven Gin Peg is clearly worried.

https://www.thenews.com.pk/print/227606 ... nces-China

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Anurag » 02 Sep 2017 18:38

Cross-posting what I wrote from the Mil thread

If this is actually true it is good news for India. Beijing can expect that anything coming from their Munnah to India is not a zero sum game in India's response.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby BSR Murthy » 02 Sep 2017 19:46

Russia’s arms sales weaken China in the Indo-Pacific area
During a visit to Finland on July 27, which coincided with the end of the drills in the Baltic waters, Russian President Vladimir Putin said Sino-Russian military exercises were not aimed at any third country, noting that Moscow and Beijing did not establish military blocks or military alliances.
Putin was right, though some might be tempted to think that he simply offered platitudes. China and Russia are not allied, and the most striking evidence of this comes from Moscow’s arms sales to rivals of Beijing in Asia.
....Paradoxically, the US and Russia have become “brothers-in-arms sellers” to Beijing’s potential enemies.


Russian cooperation with China is tactical, not strategic
A surprisingly well written op-ed piece from Gobar Tmes!

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Pulikeshi » 02 Sep 2017 20:28

The Indian media found wanting... even the mango man from India found wanting...
Vishnu missed the boat paying attention to Dokla (already eaten!) - needed to get Rupee and paisa on ChiPak, OBOR Aberrance, Chinese Colonial Comany, etc. Instead Vishnu gain play "little brother" to Liu Xin's "elder sister" The rudeness of the Chinese needs to be met with equally polite rudeness. The lefties in India have much to learn and recover - need more viewship in India for this stupidity to be well understood and internalized.... :P

In any case interesting perspective from BR & S of BRICS ~


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Re: Neutering & defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Bade » 02 Sep 2017 20:31

:rotfl: :rotfl:
SriKumar wrote:^^^ You seeeener. Nineth seen.
You forgot the great Dalai Lama event. The first Dalai Lama, His High Holiness in the 14th century had once visited Boston to admire the beautiful swamps by the sea. The place since then belong to China since wherever Dalai Lama visit/lived is Tibet, and Tibet has always been a part of China. The town of Boston has been referred to as Bo So Tan in Chinese maps since late 14th century, i.e. before the great sailor, Co Lam Bas first came to America. So it is the police who are trespassing.

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Re: Neutering & defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby yensoy » 02 Sep 2017 21:02

Kati wrote:Man charged with trying to steal robotics firm trade secrets

BOSTON (AP) — A dual Chinese and Canadian citizen tried to steal valuable trade secrets from a Massachusetts surgical robotics company, federal prosecutors said.


And of course, everyone knows that China doesn't allow dual citizenship. So if this guy still had his Chinese passport, he is probably a very important and state sponsored spy.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby SSridhar » 02 Sep 2017 21:37

BSR Murthy wrote:Russian cooperation with China is tactical, not strategic
A surprisingly well written op-ed piece from Gobar Tmes!

Chinese have always been saying that the largest occupier of their lands is Russia. Just before the first visit of Xi Jinping to Russia when Xi was given an unprecedented tour of Russia’s Operational Command Centre, there were huge demonstrations against Russia including on the Weibo. India was only # 2 on the list followed by Kazakhastan.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby srin » 02 Sep 2017 21:52

The biggest take-away from Doklam is this: diplomacy will work only if it is backed by military strength and political will to use the strength. Everything else ("denial strategy" etc) that others are peddling is an eye-wash.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby UlanBatori » 02 Sep 2017 23:22

Yup. Winnie the Poo said in so many words that he was going to invade India, kill all the Indian soldiers at Doklam, etc etc etc. THEN he realized that those were not fir trees, they were camouflaged Indian soldiers and gun barrels peeking over the ridges all around Doklam. And the surprise raid on the ITBP camp at Pangong Tso ended with all Chinese soldiers stuck on riverbank surrounded by the ITBP and IA until they got tired of kicking the PLA, and the PLA having to walk home without pants, the blue marks on their bare butts showing clearly in videos privately circulated among IA circles.

Then he did XiT with tail between legs. And he ended up paying $20B? $60B? in chinese sales boycotted by Indians all over the world. Overall, the term "Pompous Dumbass Headed For Road-Building in Gobi" comes to mind. He'll have Comrade Rui, the oily idiot of Gobar Crimes, as next in line in his chain gang.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby prasannasimha » 02 Sep 2017 23:32

UlanBatori wrote:Yup. Winnie the Poo said in so many words that he was going to invade India, kill all the Indian soldiers at Doklam, etc etc etc. THEN he realized that those were not fir trees, they were camouflaged Indian soldiers and gun barrels peeking over the ridges all around Doklam. And the surprise raid on the ITBP camp at Pangong Tso ended with all Chinese soldiers stuck on riverbank surrounded by the ITBP and IA
until they got tired of kicking the PLA, and the PLA having to walk home without pants, the blue marks on their bare butts showing clearly in videos privately circulated among IA circles.


Then he did XiT with tail between legs. And he ended up paying $20B? $60B? in chinese sales boycotted by Indians all over the world. Overall, the term "Pompous Dumbass Headed For Road-Building in Gobi" comes to mind. He'll have Comrade Rui, the oily idiot of Gobar Crimes, as next in line in his chain gang.


Anyone having it should putit up now on you tube

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Re: Neutering & defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Prem » 02 Sep 2017 23:50

Dumal wrote::rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: you guys should put these up in the comments to the news articles in the US.

SriKumar wrote:^^^ You seeeener. Nineth seen.
You forgot the great Dalai Lama event. The first Dalai Lama, His High Holiness in the 14th century had once visited Boston to admire the beautiful swamps by the sea. The place since then belong to China since wherever Dalai Lama visit/lived is Tibet, and Tibet has always been a part of China. The town of Boston has been referred to as Bo So Tan in Chinese maps since late 14th century, i.e. before the great sailor, Co Lam Bas first came to America. So it is the police who are trespassing.


This issue seems similar to Doklam stand off . India claim that Boston is actually Bose_Taran established by great/Vasus/ Basus in Dwapara , now corrupted by imperialists as Boston.

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Re: Neutering & defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby g.sarkar » 03 Sep 2017 00:44

SriKumar wrote:^^^ You seeeener. Nineth seen.
You forgot the great Dalai Lama event. The first Dalai Lama, His High Holiness in the 14th century had once visited Boston to admire the beautiful swamps by the sea. The place since then belong to China since wherever Dalai Lama visit/lived is Tibet, and Tibet has always been a part of China. The town of Boston has been referred to as Bo So Tan in Chinese maps since late 14th century, i.e. before the great sailor, Co Lam Bas first came to America. So it is the police who are trespassing.


The only reason a piece loving China objects to HH The Dalai Lama's visiting different countries is just this. China does not want these countries to berong to China, even though these countries want to berong to China and become a part of the success story that China is. Such melger would not be fair to the hard working Chinese population.
Gautam

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby UlanBatori » 03 Sep 2017 01:53

Does snow fall in Bo So Ton, hain? Doesn't "china" mean "Srum whele snow farr", hain? Q.E.D.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby kit » 03 Sep 2017 02:11

Hari Seldon wrote:Rumor is rife that certain PRC pressured North Indonesia sea rim countries are taking away one lesson from doklam - that they need noox to withstand dlagon plessure.

That list includes vietnam (duh), Japan (but of course), and *cough, cough* taiwan ... Onlee...

/rumor mode off.


especially when they find the dragon they thought of was a paper dragon with "special effects " :mrgreen:

Count on pakistan to make the most of this !! .. more moolah for being "extra " chummy :rotfl:

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby kit » 03 Sep 2017 02:14

anupmisra wrote:Pakistan will be defended, announces China

China on Thursday sent out a signal that it would defend Pakistan and would object to any discussion about Pakistan’s role in sheltering terrorists during the upcoming BRICS summit, which would be attended by Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi, foreign media reported.
China is worried Modi may raise the issue at the meeting because he did so at the Goa summit of BRICS last year while describing Pakistan as the “mother-ship of terrorism”.
I don’t think this is an appropriate topic to be discussed at BRICS summit,” Hua Chunying, Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesperson, said at a briefing.
Chinese leaders may be forced to defend its close ally, Pakistan


Yes! Yeh Kya Hua Chun Mun speaks from her heart. "She feels" that chinasthana may be "forced" to defend "its most loyalest loyalist" bilathel from another mothel, Bājīsītǎn, like a common pimp who is forced to protect his property's virtue from slander. Eleven Gin Peg is clearly worried.

https://www.thenews.com.pk/print/227606 ... nces-China


Heh heh .. they cant do without Modi nor can they do with Modi at the BRICS ..as it is BRICS is nothing without India at the center :mrgreen: ..Modi will bring the issue of paki sponsored terrorism to the fore ..and why not ? .. its one issue that affects everyone !!

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby kit » 03 Sep 2017 02:20

BSR Murthy wrote:Russia’s arms sales weaken China in the Indo-Pacific area
During a visit to Finland on July 27, which coincided with the end of the drills in the Baltic waters, Russian President Vladimir Putin said Sino-Russian military exercises were not aimed at any third country, noting that Moscow and Beijing did not establish military blocks or military alliances.
Putin was right, though some might be tempted to think that he simply offered platitudes. China and Russia are not allied, and the most striking evidence of this comes from Moscow’s arms sales to rivals of Beijing in Asia.
....Paradoxically, the US and Russia have become “brothers-in-arms sellers” to Beijing’s potential enemies.


Russian cooperation with China is tactical, not strategic
A surprisingly well written op-ed piece from Gobar Tmes!



If Europe was not the immediate priority the greatest threat for the Russians is from China NOT from the US that is a continent away ( no the bering doesn't really count ! ) ..its getting demographically weaker , markets shrinking and China is buying up most places .. its just a matter of time that things hot up over there ..never mind the border issues were settled ..the Chinese have a knack of whipping up some ancient literature somehwere saying moscow belongs to them ! :roll:

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Bart S » 03 Sep 2017 03:08

Vishnu Som's behind the scenes account of the that Chinese TV show is here:
http://www.ndtv.com/blog/i-co-anchored- ... am-1744567

I too didn't find the performance that impressive, but I think we need to cut him some slack. Once our guys get more familiar with this stuff they will do better for sure, but I think our foreign ministry needs to brief anybody with such a plan first, since they are up against people who are basically mouthpieces for their party.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby ArjunPandit » 03 Sep 2017 04:20

Bart S wrote:Vishnu Som's behind the scenes account of the that Chinese TV show is here:
http://www.ndtv.com/blog/i-co-anchored- ... am-1744567

I too didn't find the performance that impressive, but I think we need to cut him some slack. Once our guys get more familiar with this stuff they will do better for sure, but I think our foreign ministry needs to brief anybody with such a plan first, since they are up against people who are basically mouthpieces for their party.

Hope it leads to Farl(r)eed Zaka(t)aria style suave speakers who couch their agenda behind soft and cogent arguments of first degree rather than Arnab style verbal howitzers.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby SSridhar » 03 Sep 2017 07:11

The media collaboration is a good beginning, but the Chinese would try to do something like 'Aman ki Asha' type spurious ingress into Indian intelligentsia, part of their 3W Warfare. We should be wary of that. The fact that they chose NDTV for the initial experiment is a revelation of their approach. They also chose two very young Indian students who did not seem to be on top of the discussions compared to two very experienced panelists on the Chinese side. They will then choose The Hindu for print media collaboration. Because the English-media following Chinese are minuscule unlike in India, the Chinese may feel confident of being insulated from Indian version of events and thoughts as CPC always wants to ensure that only its version of the news reaches its masses.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Bade » 03 Sep 2017 07:22

The two Indian scholars were affiliated with Chinese universities, even that would be a problem. Some in the Indian panel seemed not able to frame their thoughts and put forth succinctly. The whole thing looked bizarre when the Indian co-anchor insistence for an answer was met with more stonewalling by another panel member.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby shiv » 03 Sep 2017 07:55

Bart S wrote:Vishnu Som's behind the scenes account of the that Chinese TV show is here:
http://www.ndtv.com/blog/i-co-anchored- ... am-1744567

I too didn't find the performance that impressive, but I think we need to cut him some slack. Once our guys get more familiar with this stuff they will do better for sure, but I think our foreign ministry needs to brief anybody with such a plan first, since they are up against people who are basically mouthpieces for their party.

Didn't bother reading it all - but the first few lines look like a Chinese TV version of comments by Chinese on this forum and on my videos. "We make. You don't. So nyahaya" This looks more like an attempt to shame and gain self confidence than a serious discussion. Shame the other and show who's boss.

There is a serious misunderstanding of Chinese among Indians and vice versa. "Shameful facts" that reveal Indian realities are seen by Indians as the truth that require to be addressed, not as "shame causing facts" that should be hidden to avoid embarrassment. Poverty is not hidden from others because we are ashamed and would rather hide it. On the other hand the Chinese appear all good - despite fraying seen at the edges because appearances that cause shame are to be avoided. If Indians thought like Chinese we would be shamed into accepting our inferior status because the Chinese do not reveal anything that is not shiny or bad. If others can't see it, it does not exist.

To that extent I think that "allowing the Chinese a way out of Doklam" without shaming them was the right thing to do. When you shame people without any direct gain for yourself other than bolstering one's own ego and making the other "accept your superiority" you are playing the other person's game - where the shamed person will want to continue the game. But if, in your assessment you have actually scared him and told him where to get off, and he knows that he has to get off - then let him get off without shame and keep barking. he will know what to expect next time. This may take several Doklam type iterations to take effect - but it is a form of behaviour modification we can impose on the Chinese without copying their gaming style which they excel in.

In fact the release of the Pangong video was a masterstroke although the left-right statement was an error because Indians who are always ready to accept their inferiority started searching for nuances based on perspective/north/south etc and screwed up the effect somewhat. But the message went to Peiping all right

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby SSridhar » 03 Sep 2017 07:59

Post Doklam, PM goes to BRICS taller and more effective - Saibal Dasgupta, ToI
After the Doklam episode, Prime Minister Narendra Modi will walk in taller than earlier when he arrives at the BRICS summit on Sunday because this is the first time in three years that an Asian country had taken on the might of China. But he may avoid any references to the event, and try to improve person-to-person relationship when he meets Chinese President Xi Jinping, observers said.

"Modi goes to China with an enhanced stature and stronger leadership credentials than Xi," Mohan Malik, a professor at the Asia-Pacific Center for Security Studies at Honolulu in the US told TNN. "This visit comes after India's refusal to join Xi's Belt and Road Forum in May and decision to stare down the PLA (People's Liberation Army) despite daily threats and belligerent rhetoric," he said.

The Doklam issue will overshadow the meeting of leaders, and play a key role during Modi's one to one meeting with Chinese President Xi Jinping and leaders of Brazil, South Africa, and Russia including Vladimir Putin, observers said. US president Donald Trump's latest sanctions against Russia will also impact the proceedings at the meeting because it will make Putin more dependent on China for support, they said.

Beijing based diplomats are closely watching how the Indian Prime Minister deals with the BRICS dialogue on counterterrorism, which is one of the organization's major planks. China is worried that Modi might make a reference to Pakistan's approach of sheltering known terrorists as he did during the last BRICS conference in Goa. The Chinese foreign ministry has already indicated that Beijing would object to any such move.

China expects Modi to send out a public signal that the reconciliation initiated after the Doklam crisis is having an effect, and India is keen to improve the relationship with China, a Chinese expert told TNN while requesting anonymity. A signal from India is important because China suffered some amount of image loss during the 10-week standoff at the border near Sikkim, a Beijing based observer said.

"We also hope Modi does not talk about CPEC," he said referring to the China Pakistan Economic Corridor while requesting anonymity. This is a showcase project for China's Belt and Road Initiative. But it does not want India to raise the issue at a time when CPEC has triggered some heart burning in the business community in Pakistan, which is in a fluid political situation, anyway.


Chinese foreign ministry has said it is a custom that the Chinese president would try to hold bilateral meetings with leaders of different countries as long as time permits. Xi is expected to meet Modi separately because an absence of one-to-one meeting would send out signals of continuing distrust.

Cold numbers show that India is very important to China in both political and economic terms. Among BRICS partners, India is China's seventh biggest trading partner and Russia holds the 15th rank while the two other participants, Brazil and South Africa, are small stakeholders. China also enjoys the maximum trade surplus with India, compared to the other BRICS partners, at $47.2 billion.

But New Delhi is not pleased because China has a huge advantage over India with its trade surplus growing 195.7 percent between 2009 and 2016 averaging 28% a year.

Chinese experts see the situation differently, though. Peking University professor Fu Jun told the China Global Television Network on Saturday that India is not able to sell enough to China because it has structural problems like a weak manufacturing base compared to China.

Beijing is particularly worried about India agreeing to a tacit India-US-Japan arrangement during the upcoming visit of Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe to New Delhi in mid-September. China has a territorial dispute with Japan and sees it as the main rival both in military and economic terms.

"Japan has long acted as the pawn of the US, and now it hopes India will stand on its side. But India always prioritizes the principle of non-alignment and pursues leadership in the developing world," Jiang Jingkui, director of the South Asia Research Center at the Peking University told the People's Daily. "Therefore, the Indian side is clearly aware that it will lack independence once the India, US and Japan alliance is formed, and Modi also knows an India-Japan alliance would be perceived as weak by the US, because Japan would be quick to withdraw if the US showed its disapproval," Jiang said. {The Chinese always use this trick of praising 'independent foreign policies' of India in order to ensure that no formal or informal alliance develops against China in which India becomes a member.}

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby hnair » 03 Sep 2017 08:30

Satisfying to see the chinese doing hanfu-shivering over whether Shree Modi will "mention paki perfidy or not". An entire TV program, a full-time foreign ministry staffer etc to deal with this rather mainstream foreign office issue? Shows how fragile their national government is, despite all those expensive military parades. They could have very well come prepared with a rebuttal for their repugnant ally, the paki army, if Shree Modi speaks out at the summit. That is what stronger confident countries do. Yes, it might mar their act a wee bit, but the summit will become less boring to others and at least it will show them to be less of wusses than these fainting goats.

The entire world is seeing china's bluff being called a second time in one week. So much for "we set the agenda, you follow", Here, without even speaking once, Shree Modi has reset the BRICS agenda and Shree Xi is following meekly, pleading not to embarrass his act. China is being shown very methodically, its place in the universe, thanks to its ineffective leadership.

So this is the way to blackmail china - via Shree Xi. For the sake of Shree Xi's survival, he will pay through the nose. Threaten in private that his pretty events will get mushed up a bit and he will agree to anything, including pulling the neck chains of modern day eunuchs in charge of the military. Pakis must be furiously scribbling down notes. Expect work stoppages in CPEC to embarass china, so pakis can claim more baksheesh

The wumao of this forum needs to go back and get re-educated on how to deal with new normal, instead of being merely agreeable

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Hari Seldon » 03 Sep 2017 08:59

Meanwhile, more tactical brilliance from dlagon using its 'other' proxy - NoKo has yielded amazing returns to PRC's "world domination starting with Asia" damp-dreams ....

Will South Korea Make Atomic Bomb? Seoul 'Fears It Can't Depend On US Alliance' (Sputnik)

Like moi said only, biggest take-away from Doklam for countries like SoKo, Japan, Vietnam, Indonesia and maybe even Taiwan is that PRC backs down when facing a resolute new clear weapons state. Only.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby amohan2001 » 03 Sep 2017 09:07

Pakistan has become Albatross around China's neck.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby shiv » 03 Sep 2017 09:22

amohan2001 wrote:Pakistan has become Al-butt ross around China's neck.

..there. Corrected

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby sanjayc » 03 Sep 2017 09:54

Bart S wrote:Vishnu Som's behind the scenes account of the that Chinese TV show is here:
http://www.ndtv.com/blog/i-co-anchored- ... am-1744567

I too didn't find the performance that impressive, but I think we need to cut him some slack. Once our guys get more familiar with this stuff they will do better for sure, but I think our foreign ministry needs to brief anybody with such a plan first, since they are up against people who are basically mouthpieces for their party.


Almost all of these NDTV and Hindu type of journalists have not risen through the ranks on merit - they owe their job to their influential dad pulling the strings. They shine in controlled debates but cut a sorry figure when push comes to shove.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby shiv » 03 Sep 2017 10:02

sanjayc wrote:
Bart S wrote:Vishnu Som's behind the scenes account of the that Chinese TV show is here:
http://www.ndtv.com/blog/i-co-anchored- ... am-1744567

I too didn't find the performance that impressive, but I think we need to cut him some slack. Once our guys get more familiar with this stuff they will do better for sure, but I think our foreign ministry needs to brief anybody with such a plan first, since they are up against people who are basically mouthpieces for their party.


Almost all of these NDTV and Hindu type of journalists have not risen through the ranks on merit - they owe their job to their influential dad pulling the strings. They shine in controlled debates but cut a sorry figure when push comes to shove.

If YusufDFI had been put in that debate he would have ripped the Chinese a new one. He deals with Pakis with sophistication and aplomb.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby BSR Murthy » 03 Sep 2017 10:37

North Korea apparently conducts another nuclear test, South Korea says
Hmm thats interesting. NoKo chose to do a nuke test just before the BRICS summit. China's eastern border just got a whole lot hotter.

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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Postby Manish_Sharma » 03 Sep 2017 11:06

hnair wrote:
The entire world is seeing china's bluff being called a second time in one week. So much for "we set the agenda, you follow", Here, without even speaking once, Shree Modi has reset the BRICS agenda and Shree Xi is following meekly,


8)
:twisted:

The wumao of this forum needs to go back and get re-educated on how to deal with new normal, instead of being merely agreeable


:rotfl:


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