LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby chetak » 03 Jul 2015 22:27

A Deshmukh wrote:IMO we are wrongly focusing on the bullet marks?

The testing would be of the vibrations and its effect on the body of the plane.
Do we have information on this?


If the firing was just for shock and vibration trials, the grouping thingee is not required nor would anyone have got it done because it is enormously time consuming to set it up.. There seem to be a mismatch between the data quoted and the conclusions drawn.

I would seriously doubt if the LCA would have gun sights fitted at this stage (unless it's already a part of the HUD) or even a harmonization procedure in place.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby chetak » 03 Jul 2015 22:37

deejay wrote:^^^ Sir, the paper size is A4, but the only doubt is whether this is from the same firing. The grouping is too tight / close. Normally does not happen in automatic firing. The spread of the bullet spray also increases with distance from target.

As far as bullet hole sizes from 23 mm, I have never seen a shot on a paper target so can't be sure but once the bullet is fired, the broad rear casing is ejected. Size of hole on this target- can't be sure of that but when hit by 23 mm brick walls crumble from a fair distance.


I wasn't talking about the casing. Take a good look at the size of the business end. The holes do not match in relation to the A4 size reference.

as for brick walls, that's why such firing is never done indoors, that and the danger of ricochet. :)
The round has a very considerable KE.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby PratikDas » 04 Jul 2015 02:24

This picture is better because it gives a more useful visual reference for scale:

Image

I would think that even one of these would leave a gaping hole through sandwiched plywood and A4-sized paper.

I think the middle piece of paper is newsprint unrolled vertically (52 to 53 mm across) and the pieces on the side are newsprint unrolled horizontally (52 to 53 mm tall).

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Singha » 04 Jul 2015 05:59

my superiah visual skills also indicate its much bigger than A3 size sheets.
that area is the size of a door.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby chetak » 04 Jul 2015 08:31

Singha wrote:my superiah visual skills also indicate its much bigger than A3 size sheets.
that area is the size of a door.


my experience has mostly been with 20 mm hispano suiza and aden guns.

I have worked with the Gsh 23 but was never able to examine the results of a firing unlike with the aden and HS guns. Something is not quite right.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby geeth » 04 Jul 2015 09:41

IMO the paper is chart paper of A3 size..

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby srin » 04 Jul 2015 09:49

Now that Chetak-ji has raised questions, I'm re-looking at it too. Shouldn't the KE of the rounds tear the paper apart instead of making neat holes ?

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby SaiK » 04 Jul 2015 10:57

^why are those shells having different markings, and with no clear pattern (make/date/etc) at all in a single chain?

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby vaibhav.n » 04 Jul 2015 11:08

Image

For representation sake: The 23x115mm round used in the 23mm 6 barrel GSh-23-4 gatling and the 30x165mm round is used on the 30mm 2A42 BMP-2 auto-cannon.

IIRC, The monstrous second last 30x113mm round should be from the M230 chain gun on the AH-64 Apache.

IMO, Anything larger than 20mm should not leave those clean exit holes on wood. Especially since they are all HE rounds not army APTI ones.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby suryag » 04 Jul 2015 14:45

Folks a dumb question, Sri Balaji was commander or commodore in IN ?

BTW his fact file from tarmak. Very impressive credentials, no hi-fi IIT or MIT tag, may lord Balaji help him

http://tarmak007.blogspot.de/2015/07/cm ... ns-of.html

* Cmde Balaji (Retd) is born on 13 March 1957

* Holds a BE in Mechanical Engineering

* Commissioned into the Indian Navy in September 1978

* Served as the Air Engineer Officer of INAS 310 (Alize bomber) for 3 years embarking Aircraft Carrier Vikrant in 1981

* Worked with Sea Harriers in 1985

* Took Masters in Aerospace Engineering from IISc 1986-88

* Senior Instructor at Naval Institute of Aeronautical Technology (NIAT), Kochi, 1988-89These navy guys are crazy about self sufficiency(really love it), other arms would have sent their guys to train with the navy if they had a need to master something about naval technology and here we have a navy institute that teaches aeronautical technology. here is some info on the NIAT http://indiannavy.nic.in/about-indian-navy/naval-institute-aeronautical-technology they have already provided valuable design inputs for the N-LCA and paper->plane in 12 years doing it the first time

* Served as Lt. Cdr Chief Engineer officer onboard INS Beas 1989-91

* Station Air Engineer Officer at INS Hansa, Goa 1991-95

* As a Commander served INS Magar 1995-97

* Was attached to ALH project office in HAL 1998-2002

* Coordinated the naval team for landing of ALH on INS Ganga

* Deputed to ADA in 2002

* Wrote CCS paper on NLCA in 2002

* Appointed as Project Director Navy in 2005

* Left Navy in 2006 and joined ADA as a Naval Project Chief

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby chetak » 04 Jul 2015 15:38

shiv wrote:
tsarkar wrote:How did we conclude that the holes in the wood are from a previous firing??? Same for the paper being exit holes, that too with a bulls eye printed on them

Wood chips outwards and paper everts in exit holes. Both features are visible on the paper targets. The wood holes are neat entry holes. the paper target has been turned back to front because it is too small and extra paper pasted to the side. Clearly this is a thing done by an young enthusiast and not meant to be a stuffy officious demonstration of grouping as a press release. An old deal wood box has been used

I would be very surprised if anyone tried to test grouping from a stationary aircraft. The vibration would shake the entire aircraft and trying to stop that would be impossible. The transmission of weapon energy as vibration cannot be totally prevented. Grouping from the cannon should be tested from a proper mount, not an aircraft on stilts. Grouping from live firing will come from shooting targets from the air.


hakim saab,

Generally, during firing trials on the ground the aircraft is usually leveled on jacks, the same jacks that are used for maintenance. Firing at targets in the air, usually involves a towed sleeve and firing at a ground target from the air could never leave such a neat grouping because the aircraft is moving and also at an angle to the target. The shells would literally have "walked" across the target and not left such a neat grouping.

Firing such heavy weapons without stabilizing the aircraft is very dangerous and the aircraft under recoil can move unpredictably. The target is generally set up against a fairly high mud bank (butt) or a huge and very, very thick wall made of sand bags as the background so that the KE of the shells are absorbed by it and ricochets are minimized. Additional heavy sand bags (multi row) are placed on the extended sides and sand bag walls are made such that ricochets if any, are also absorbed. Its like firing into a three sided room from the fourth open side.

BTW, the recoil is not that heavy that an aircraft is thrown off it's jacks. If it happens, it simply means that some moron did not do his job of stabilizing the aircraft properly and he is looking at a bleak future. Also, the characteristics of the gun itself would be enough to roughly predict the recoil and it's anticipated effect as regards the probable movement of the jacked up aircraft.

If the aircraft moves and it comes off the jack(s), major structural damage will certainly follow because the jack(s) will pierce the wing or fuselage, where ever the jack adapter slips it's jacking point.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby member_28108 » 04 Jul 2015 18:46

OK guys , I had suggested using the paper tape size as reference. Nobody took it on and I did it. it corresponds to a size of 297 X 420 mm. The two lateral sheets which corresponds to A3 and the central sheet should therefore be A2 sheet (420 X 594 mm). The dispersion of the left gun has a radius that is 420 mm approximately. Incidentally the central target (bulls eye pattern) is 20 inches and 10 inches respectively.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby member_28108 » 04 Jul 2015 19:02

Incidentally please look at the Tejas gun firing video- the plane is kept within the hanger near the door but is firing outside the hanger (Look at the extreme left side- there is the hanger door open so you can see the trees and shrubs outside :) . So it is not firing into any closed space but from a hanger outside to a target placed sufficently far away outside it (people were asking about hanger dimensions which becomes moot here.) So all ricochets etc would not occur within the hanger.
Also the front (I presume the landing gear -someone may correct me) has been stabilized .They obviously would have taken care of stability of the plane etc when doing these s

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby shiv » 04 Jul 2015 20:47

prasannasimha wrote:OK guys , I had suggested using the paper tape size as reference. Nobody took it on and I did it. it corresponds to a size of 297 X 420 mm. The two lateral sheets which corresponds to A3 and the central sheet should therefore be A2 sheet (420 X 594 mm). The dispersion of the left gun has a radius that is 420 mm approximately. Incidentally the central target (bulls eye pattern) is 20 inches and 10 inches respectively.

Where is the "like" button?

What was the range (distance from muzzle to target)?

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby member_28108 » 04 Jul 2015 20:51

shiv wrote:
prasannasimha wrote:OK guys , I had suggested using the paper tape size as reference. Nobody took it on and I did it. it corresponds to a size of 297 X 420 mm. The two lateral sheets which corresponds to A3 and the central sheet should therefore be A2 sheet (420 X 594 mm). The dispersion of the left gun has a radius that is 420 mm approximately. Incidentally the central target (bulls eye pattern) is 20 inches and 10 inches respectively.

Where is the "like" button?

What was the range (distance from muzzle to target)?


It should be calculable if we know the exit velocity of the gun and bullet mass for that gun. If we assume that the gun discharges and the bullet that was ranged true dead center dropped 210 mm it could get a rough idea of the distance to the target. Any one has the data regarding the gun ?
Addendum - the muzzle velocity is 715 m/s as per Wikipedia.Weight of cartridge is 174 gms and the range for the 21 cm drop assuming no vinration would be 148 meteres assuming no shake
So the muzzle to target distance could not be more than 148 meters approx
Time of flight was 0.207 sec
People can correct me if I am wrong.
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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby member_28108 » 04 Jul 2015 20:54

srin wrote:Now that Chetak-ji has raised questions, I'm re-looking at it too. Shouldn't the KE of the rounds tear the paper apart instead of making neat holes ?

My knowledge of gun holes is more related to human injury and yes they can leave straight holes in entry at a distance.The exit holes are larger.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby shiv » 04 Jul 2015 21:05

prasannasimha wrote:It should be calculable if we know the exit velocity of the gun and bullet mass for that gun. If we assume that the gun discharges and the bullet that was ranged true dead center dropped 210 mm it could get a rough idea of the distance to the target. Any one has the data regarding the gun ?
Addendum - the muzzle velocity is 715 m/s as per Wikipedia.

No. How far away did you place the target A3 paper from the muzzle?

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby member_28108 » 04 Jul 2015 21:22

shiv wrote:
prasannasimha wrote:It should be calculable if we know the exit velocity of the gun and bullet mass for that gun. If we assume that the gun discharges and the bullet that was ranged true dead center dropped 210 mm it could get a rough idea of the distance to the target. Any one has the data regarding the gun ?
Addendum - the muzzle velocity is 715 m/s as per Wikipedia.

No. How far away did you place the target A3 paper from the muzzle?


I added the calculation in an upper quote - with available data I get using a210 mm drop and firing velocity and using standard g (9.8 meters/second) the distance from the muzzle to cause a drop of 210 mm would be 148 meters

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby chetak » 04 Jul 2015 21:24

prasannasimha wrote:Incidentally please look at the Tejas gun firing video- the plane is kept within the hanger near the door but is firing outside the hanger (Look at the extreme left side- there is the hanger door open so you can see the trees and shrubs outside :) . So it is not firing into any closed space but from a hanger outside to a target placed sufficently far away outside it (people were asking about hanger dimensions which becomes moot here.) So all ricochets etc would not occur within the hanger.
Also the front (I presume the landing gear -someone may correct me) has been stabilized .They obviously would have taken care of stability of the plane etc when doing these s


That is the normal jack used also for maintenance. The placement of sandbags etc outside the hangar, and near the target area has to be there as a safety precaution otherwise as per regulations the firing cannot take place. I have NEVER seen such firing into an open area because the shells tend to carry a fair way past the target. Hitting a pedestrian, onlooker or animal is a sure way to a police complaint because of the medico legal issues and all the attendant bad press.

The target area will usually be enclosed by sand bags on three sides to absorb the KE and also to protect against ricochets, if any and in that sense it is a "closed" area and this closed area width may be a somewhat less than the wingspan.

All services have the same regulations/precautions in such matters. There are no exceptions. ADA would simply have adapted such a regulation and formalized it as their own and promulgated the same officially before the firing. A ricochet, glancing off at a shallow angle may travel well over a kilometer before hitting someone. All are govt employees and none will take the chance.

The target would usually be placed at the point where the gun and the gun sight would converge because anything before or after will increase the dispersion with respect to the point of aim

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby member_28108 » 04 Jul 2015 21:28

shiv wrote:
prasannasimha wrote:It should be calculable if we know the exit velocity of the gun and bullet mass for that gun. If we assume that the gun discharges and the bullet that was ranged true dead center dropped 210 mm it could get a rough idea of the distance to the target. Any one has the data regarding the gun ?
Addendum - the muzzle velocity is 715 m/s as per Wikipedia.

No. How far away did you place the target A3 paper from the muzzle?

Since I was using relative distances and ratios the distance for the target and muzzle would be immaterial for my calculation.One thing though another thing that can be done is to take the width of the tape versus true tape width as per photo and with that you can calculate using triangulation the distance too. ie if a one inch tape looks as 14 mm what is the distance sort of geometry solution.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby shiv » 04 Jul 2015 21:30

prasannasimha wrote:
I added the calculation in an upper quote - with available data I get using a210 mm drop and firing velocity and using standard g (9.8 meters/second) the distance from the muzzle to cause a drop of 210 mm would be 148 meters

OK thanks. What was beyond the target - a mound of earth?

148 meters beyond the hangar is a huge distance but necessary for a firing test range I guess.

How did you place the target paper so accurately - was there a way of knowing like from a previous firing, or did you use some sort of sighting?

The spread/dispersion at 148 meters is pretty good.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby member_28108 » 04 Jul 2015 21:30

chetak wrote:
prasannasimha wrote:Incidentally please look at the Tejas gun firing video- the plane is kept within the hanger near the door but is firing outside the hanger (Look at the extreme left side- there is the hanger door open so you can see the trees and shrubs outside :) . So it is not firing into any closed space but from a hanger outside to a target placed sufficently far away outside it (people were asking about hanger dimensions which becomes moot here.) So all ricochets etc would not occur within the hanger.
Also the front (I presume the landing gear -someone may correct me) has been stabilized .They obviously would have taken care of stability of the plane etc when doing these s


That is the normal jack used also for maintenance. The placement of sandbags etc outside the hangar, and near the target area has to be there as a safety precaution otherwise as per regulations the firing cannot take place. I have NEVER seen such firing into an open area because the shells tend to carry a fair way past the target. Hitting a pedestrian, onlooker or animal is a sure way to a police complaint because of the medico legal issues and all the attendant bad press.

The target area will usually be enclosed by sand bags on three sides to absorb the KE and also to protect against ricochets, if any and in that sense it is a "closed" area and this closed area width may be a somewhat less than the wingspan.

All services have the same regulations/precautions in such matters. There are no exceptions. ADA would simply have adapted such a regulation and formalized it as their own and promulgated the same officially before the firing. A ricochet, glancing off at a shallow angle may travel well over a kilometer before hitting someone. All are govt employees and none will take the chance.

The target would usually be placed at the point where the gun and the gun sight would converge because anything before or after will increase the dispersion with respect to the point of aim


OK I was confused - Yes I can understand that the target would be corralled to capture the ricocheting bullet. Someone had mentioned that it was fired within the hanger but obviously it wasn't.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby chetak » 04 Jul 2015 21:32

prasannasimha wrote:
srin wrote:Now that Chetak-ji has raised questions, I'm re-looking at it too. Shouldn't the KE of the rounds tear the paper apart instead of making neat holes ?

My knowledge of gun holes is more related to human injury and yes they can leave straight holes in entry at a distance.The exit holes are larger.


In human injury, the behavior of the bullet is unpredictable in the sense that the bullet may enter, tumble inside or enter and the bullet may deform after hitting a bone and both cases would cause a larger exit wound.

If it is a clean pass, through only flesh, at a high energy level, the entry and exit wounds may even be the same size.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby member_28108 » 04 Jul 2015 21:38

shiv wrote:
prasannasimha wrote:
I added the calculation in an upper quote - with available data I get using a210 mm drop and firing velocity and using standard g (9.8 meters/second) the distance from the muzzle to cause a drop of 210 mm would be 148 meters

OK thanks. What was beyond the target - a mound of earth?

148 meters beyond the hangar is a huge distance but necessary for a firing test range I guess.

How did you place the target paper so accurately - was there a way of knowing like from a previous firing, or did you use some sort of sighting?

The spread/dispersion at 148 meters is pretty good.


I did not understand your question properly. What I did was that I assumed that they were aiming for the center of the dispersal which incidentally coincides at a horizontal level to the bulls eye mark in the center of the A2 paper. assuming that the plane was rock steady and aiming for the center the outermost bullet hole was having a 21 cm drop and calculated it from that. This means that the gun could not have been fired from more than 148 meters assuming zero jitter. With jitter the gun target distance would be less. So that is why I said that the muzzle target distance could not be more than 148 meters.(Could be closer) but taking the circular appearance of distribution of the left gun I am assuming that probability wise it was fairly well centered and the statistical distribution would be bivariate normal so the true center of the target would be the center of distribution.

Now all of this is from a medical person whose physics is rusty but then others can correct me
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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby shiv » 04 Jul 2015 21:42

prasannasimha wrote:Now all of this is from a medical person whose physics is rusty but then others can correct me

:rotfl: Oh OK sorry - I somehow thought you were there on the spot when the firing test was done

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby chetak » 04 Jul 2015 21:43

shiv wrote:
prasannasimha wrote:
I added the calculation in an upper quote - with available data I get using a210 mm drop and firing velocity and using standard g (9.8 meters/second) the distance from the muzzle to cause a drop of 210 mm would be 148 meters

OK thanks. What was beyond the target - a mound of earth?

148 meters beyond the hangar is a huge distance but necessary for a firing test range I guess.

How did you place the target paper so accurately - was there a way of knowing like from a previous firing, or did you use some sort of sighting?

The spread/dispersion at 148 meters is pretty good.


There are some tools that help one to sight the gun barrel by looking through it. The point at which the gun barrels and the gun sight coincide in the distance would give the best position for a good grouping.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby member_28108 » 04 Jul 2015 21:48

If it is a clean pass, through only flesh, at a high energy level, the entry and exit wounds may even be the same size.


Yes indeed but there is also the cavitation effect that adds to increase in the exit wound size in most cases..
It also varies with the distance and velocuity.A huge amount of forensic medicine deals with determining the trajectory and distance based on the morphology of the wounds. One of the worse exit wounds are due to rifle injuries despite high speed due to the cavitation effect. Having handled a lot of such wounds(I was in gangland Mumbai territory at the height of gang warfare when I was doing general surgery residency many decades ago) and also as a part of my current work (decreased after we shifted out of the shared compound of the general hospital ) have seen enough gunshot wounds to respect the damage they cause !

The whole science of medical forensic ballistics is to determine first the entry and exit wounds.There are though discernable differences (like abrasion collar etc) even if the exit wound is not that big comapred to the entry wound

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby shiv » 04 Jul 2015 21:49

chetak wrote:There are some tools that help one to sight the gun barrel by looking through it. The point at which the gun barrels and the gun sight coincide in the distance would give the best position for a good grouping.

I do a lot of this stuff at home - but with air rifles at 1 millionth of the power and 1/4th of the muzzle velocity ~200 m/sec). I have a bunch of tools including a "Chrony" to measure muzzle velocity

Don't want to digress but see my "other" YouTube channel

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby member_28108 » 04 Jul 2015 21:52

shiv wrote:
prasannasimha wrote:Now all of this is from a medical person whose physics is rusty but then others can correct me

:rotfl: Oh OK sorry - I somehow thought you were there on the spot when the firing test was done


:rotfl: If I was in ADA I would have probably got my marching orders by now :D

Someone in ADA must be laughing if my calculations are way off !

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby ramana » 04 Jul 2015 22:51

Pn, Phyziks is Physics. I was hoping it is 500 m the combat distance for Gsh 23 from wiki.
If you calculate 148 m based on 21 cm drop assuming stiff gun mount, STR becomes crucial.
However if 21 cm drop is due to mount jitter, range could be higher.
I am inclined to mount jitter due to stiffness.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby member_28108 » 04 Jul 2015 23:00

ramana wrote:Pn, Phyziks is Physics. I was hoping it is 500 m the combat distance for Gsh 23 from wiki.
If you calculate 148 m based on 21 cm drop assuming stiff gun mount, STR becomes crucial.
However if 21 cm drop is due to mount jitter, range could be higher.
I am inclined to mount jitter due to stiffness.

Would a fighter jet be turning as it is firing its gun at a target? If the mount is jittering (very likely) then the distribution of the bullet holes would be due to jitter and the true drop would be lower.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby member_28108 » 04 Jul 2015 23:38

I calculated the RMS to be 3.7 inches so the CEP would be 3.1 inches approx for that firing pattern (assuming the sticky tape is one inch and rounds were 23 mm rounds and this was calculated for the left gun. The CEP for the right gun is obviously higher.This can be taken as assuming no jitter and only bullet drop and bullet variation (best case scenario) or no drop + no bullet variation and all jitter(worse case scenario) so the gun should either way has low jitter and good accuracy. If we know the CEP of the static mounted gun the rest can be assumed to be aircraft jitter
Is that reasoning and analysis OK Ramana
Incidentally the GS23 effective range is supposed to be 2000 meters.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby shiv » 05 Jul 2015 07:43

prasannasimha wrote:Would a fighter jet be turning as it is firing its gun at a target?.

In air combat, yes because the guy being shot at will br trying to turn away.

Here are several clips of air combat (in Korea) in the link below
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=p ... 2VxCQ#t=38

But strafing ground targets - they will not be turning

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby ramana » 05 Jul 2015 07:55

Can LCA use MBD3 multi racks for dumb bombs. From CAG reports it is qualified for 500 kg dumb bombs which mean BD3 racks are used. MBD3 has same attach interface and allow two 250 or 110 kg bombs. i think hard-points are 500 kg or 1000 lbs capable?

I think until new info shows up we have beaten the gun issue to near death.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby vina » 05 Jul 2015 08:39

Hmm. Cmde Balaji is being made the head of ADA aye ? Can there be a bigger slap on the IAF's face and showing them up than this ? Think of it, a sister service, with probably 5% of the number of airframes that you have, has the required skills, experience, risk tolerance, temperament (including willingness to write checks to fund the program).

The IAF are a bunch of sophomoric frat boys with a big fetish for toys (think all the Ferrari and Maserati posters along with skimpily clad wimmins in the hostel rooms) in these sorts of things which requires a man's maturity!

Well, one thing is guaranteed. The LCA MK2 is guaranteed to see service from the decks of of IN Carriers, while the IAF can keep hunting for the greatest toy in the world.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby member_23360 » 05 Jul 2015 09:05

^^^^ +1

Abhibhushan
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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Abhibhushan » 05 Jul 2015 10:20

Vina said ...
Cmde Balaji is being made the head of ADA aye ?


Sigh!

I wish Vina had a little better memory of discussions on the subject over the years!

However, the appointment of Balaji is a step in the right direction. And no, I am sure that the IAF does NOT feel slapped about or humiliated by this action. Getting the Tejas out of a quagmire is far more important at the moment.

chetak
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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby chetak » 05 Jul 2015 11:13

^^^^^^^

The poor guy is going to have his hands full, handling the internal politics of both the IAF and the DRDO and constantly looking over his shoulder.

eklavya
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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby eklavya » 05 Jul 2015 14:58

vina wrote:Hmm. Cmde Balaji is being made the head of ADA aye ? Can there be a bigger slap on the IAF's face and showing them up than this ? Think of it, a sister service, with probably 5% of the number of airframes that you have, has the required skills, experience, risk tolerance, temperament (including willingness to write checks to fund the program).

The IAF are a bunch of sophomoric frat boys with a big fetish for toys (think all the Ferrari and Maserati posters along with skimpily clad wimmins in the hostel rooms) in these sorts of things which requires a man's maturity!

Well, one thing is guaranteed. The LCA MK2 is guaranteed to see service from the decks of of IN Carriers, while the IAF can keep hunting for the greatest toy in the world.


His appointment carries the full support of the IAF. As PD for LCA Navy he has the requisite experience and knowledge. Why are you writing rubbish about "skimpily clad wimins"?

chetak
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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby chetak » 05 Jul 2015 17:43

eklavya wrote:
vina wrote:Hmm. Cmde Balaji is being made the head of ADA aye ? Can there be a bigger slap on the IAF's face and showing them up than this ? Think of it, a sister service, with probably 5% of the number of airframes that you have, has the required skills, experience, risk tolerance, temperament (including willingness to write checks to fund the program).

The IAF are a bunch of sophomoric frat boys with a big fetish for toys (think all the Ferrari and Maserati posters along with skimpily clad wimmins in the hostel rooms) in these sorts of things which requires a man's maturity!

Well, one thing is guaranteed. The LCA MK2 is guaranteed to see service from the decks of of IN Carriers, while the IAF can keep hunting for the greatest toy in the world.


His appointment carries the full support of the IAF. As PD for LCA Navy he has the requisite experience and knowledge. Why are you writing rubbish about "skimpily clad wimins"?


Full support of the IAF for a Naval guy,???

Dream on. :roll:


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