Indian Navy News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby srai » 24 Aug 2015 12:19

amit wrote:
srai wrote:NLCA Mk.2 would be ready by the time "second" Vikrant class (if ordered within the next couple of years) joins the fleet around 2024. Current batch of 45 MiG-29Ks will act as frontline and backup plan till then. With NLCA, since it is indigenous know-how it could be reconfigured for catapult launch when Vishal arrives post 2030+ to fill the gap until N-AMCA arrives. 60 NLCA Mk.2 are planned. No need for imported planes going forward.

Three carriers means two available at all times with the third undergoing refit, or serving as training vessel, or acting as reserve. Current orders of 45 MiG-29Ks are sufficient for three squadrons and could be activated on a third carrier if situation demands it. For the most part, the third will rotate with other squadrons for shored-based stint.


But would that be an optimal use of another carrier? As per my understanding the NLCA would be used mainly for point defence of the carrier while the larger MiG-29K would be offensive arm for shore based bombing runs.

I don't think it's a good idea to have a carrier based on just one aircraft type, it so happens that the lifts of the Vikrant is not wide enough for a Rafale, not really a big aircraft.

The point is the Navy has expressed unhappiness with the MiG29K's performance and I don't think they will commit to another aircraft carrier which would have a lifespan of at least 50 years without clarity on what aircraft types will fly from it.


NLCA Mk.2 has evolved into a "medium" sized combat aircraft. Look at the redesign now: span, length and height differences.

  • Span -> 0.7m larger
  • Length -> 0.86m longer
  • Height -> 0.12m taller

Initial design:
Image
Image
(click for larger view)


Revised design:
Image
Image


For size comparison, look at Mirage-2000 specs:
  • Wingspan: 9.13 m (29 ft)
  • Length: 14.36 m (47 ft 1 in)
  • Height: 5.20 m (17 ft)

NLCA Mk.2 length is slightly longer (+0.2m) than Mirage-2000 while span is slightly smaller (-0.23m). Mirage is somewhat taller though (-0.56m).

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby amit » 24 Aug 2015 15:27

But that still doesn't solve the problem of having only one class of fighter that can be used on an carrier that will last us 50 years. At present dimensions the ship won't be able to accommodate the AMCA nor the JSF.

Vikrant is a sexy design and our own but it is stop gap in terms of the Navy's long term plans.

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby Philip » 24 Aug 2015 16:21

How much larger are the AMCA/JSF than the 29K? In CV design,the aircraft lifts should always be a bit larger than current naval aircraft so that future birds could be accommodated.I remembers eeing one lift design capable of accommodating two aircraft at a time.Does the NLCA have folding wings?

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby srai » 24 Aug 2015 17:30

amit wrote:But that still doesn't solve the problem of having only one class of fighter that can be used on an carrier that will last us 50 years. At present dimensions the ship won't be able to accommodate the AMCA nor the JSF.

Vikrant is a sexy design and our own but it is stop gap in terms of the Navy's long term plans.


50 years is a long time. It is also possible that future types like Aurora UCAVs could be same or smaller than NLCA too. Carriers can "evolve" to accommodate future aircraft types. They could go for minor or extensive refit in the future. Look at former Vikrant and Vikramaditya for example. If needed carriers can be rebuilt although that is not always ideal.

Only reason why some of us are advocating for second Vikrant is that it can be inducted by 2024 giving the IN its 3-carrier force (2 active + 1 reserve/refit). The IN has 45 MiG-29K on order with an intent for around 60 NLCA. That's enough for 3-carrier wings and these aircrafts will serve the IN for 30-years easily. On the other hand, there are too many unknowns in the Vishal design at the moment with talks of nuclear propulsion, EMALS, which aircraft etc. It will happen in due time but does the IN really wants to wait till 2030+ for its third carrier?

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby Prasad » 24 Aug 2015 19:14

How much of a hit does a change in lift size cause for a follow-on order? Could it be as simple as elongating the existing carrier by the extra feet needed? Sure all sorts of things then get elongated but surely it wont take anything approaching 150% of the time proposed for an identical follow order?

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby NRao » 24 Aug 2015 19:24

On the other hand, there are too many unknowns in the Vishal design at the moment with talks of nuclear propulsion, EMALS, which aircraft etc.


Vishal was planned along with Vikrant. So, a good amount of "unknowns" we're known even then. The true unknowns you mention, is where the USN comes into the picture. Remove those and the USN vanishes too. So the risk is not as much as you think.

How much of a hit does a change in lift size cause for a follow-on order?


Depends. When IN bought the Vicky they were aware of the drawbacks and were acceptable to them. Ask them today and I very much doubt they would make the same decision today. Certainly it is not just a matter of increasing the length etc. I had posted a video on this matter and the umpteen mistakes made by the USN. Not simple at all - outside of fanboys.

Do it right the first time.

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby Aditya G » 24 Aug 2015 19:55

Prasad wrote:How much of a hit does a change in lift size cause for a follow-on order? Could it be as simple as elongating the existing carrier by the extra feet needed? Sure all sorts of things then get elongated but surely it wont take anything approaching 150% of the time proposed for an identical follow order?


The vikrant lifts are like balconies. There is space to maneuver larger pieces ... Assuming the hangar allows. Viraat and vkd both have square lifts which impose limitations on size.

I think weight is the deal breaker. But mig29 is a heave aircraft

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby Gagan » 24 Aug 2015 21:09

Viraat has a balcony lift too

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby srai » 25 Aug 2015 06:27

amit wrote:... At present dimensions the ship won't be able to accommodate the AMCA nor the JSF. ...

Philip wrote:How much larger are the AMCA/JSF than the 29K? In CV design,the aircraft lifts should always be a bit larger than current naval aircraft so that future birds could be accommodated.I remembers eeing one lift design capable of accommodating two aircraft at a time.Does the NLCA have folding wings?


That whole small lifts talk may be an urban myth. If it can fit a MiG-29K, I doubt there will be size issues for others (other than CATOBAR setup). F-18E/F may not fit though.

Here are dimensions of various aircrafts:

Code: Select all

                    Length                Span             Height
--------------------------------------------------------------------
MiG-29K             17.3 m               11.99 m           4.40 m
NLCA Mk.2           14.56 m              8.9 m             4.64 m
AMCA                17.20 m              11.80 m           4.80 m
Rafale              15.27 m              10.80 m           5.34 m
F/A-18 E/F          18.31 m              13.62 m           4.88 m
F-35B                15.4 m              10.7 m            4.36 m
F-35C                15.5 m              13.1 m            4.48 m


Other than F/A-18E/F, MiG-29K is larger than all the others in length and span. Note: If F/A-18E/F is too big for the current lift, an increase of 1m more would be required. Obviously, there are other changes like CATOBAR that would be required but from pure elevator dimension argument AMCA and JSF will fit.

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby Cain Marko » 25 Aug 2015 07:18

^ But don't the wings of the Mig-29K fold giving it a span of around 5.6 mts iirc. Otoh, I have not seen a delta wing fold on a carrier
amit wrote:The point is the Navy has expressed unhappiness with the MiG29K's performance and I don't think they will commit to another aircraft carrier which would have a lifespan of at least 50 years without clarity on what aircraft types will fly from it.


When did the IN complain about the MiG-29K's performance? The problem has been some teething supply chain issues afaik. Until a stealth bird - pakfa/jsf/amca or whatever is available to the IN, the fulcrum and Tejas should do well enough. Also, most likely pakfa/amca naval variants will have folding wings making them easier to accommodate.

One more VIkrant class or even two more as Austin says, is a very good idea until something bigger comes along. Of course this means more support ships as well but then this goes with increasing needs. Would love to see an order for more MPAs, AEW, tankers, minesweepers and subs.

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby Cain Marko » 25 Aug 2015 07:18

^ But don't the wings of the Mig-29K fold giving it a span of around 5.6 mts iirc. Otoh, I have not seen a delta wing fold on a carrier
amit wrote:The point is the Navy has expressed unhappiness with the MiG29K's performance and I don't think they will commit to another aircraft carrier which would have a lifespan of at least 50 years without clarity on what aircraft types will fly from it.


When did the IN complain about the MiG-29K's performance? The problem has been some teething supply chain issues afaik. Until a stealth bird - pakfa/jsf/amca or whatever is available to the IN, the fulcrum and Tejas should do well enough. Also, most likely pakfa/amca naval variants will have folding wings making them easier to accommodate.

One more VIkrant class or even two more as Austin says, is a very good idea until something bigger comes along. Of course this means more support ships as well but then this goes with increasing needs. Would love to see an order for more MPAs, AEW, tankers, minesweepers and subs.

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby sankum » 25 Aug 2015 13:28

Folded width of Mig 29k is 7.8m.

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby Singha » 25 Aug 2015 16:34

IN was however forced to buy 60 Mig29K without single-engine certification done for landing and that restricts viraats peacetime ops to near karwar only.

russia is taking its own sweet time in getting around to it, perhaps they already know the margins are not good and might need to dump most of fuel and all of payload ?

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby shaun » 25 Aug 2015 17:19

^^^
We will be having 3 squadrons ie 2 operational and 1 training , total 45 nos , how come the number got increased to 60 mig-29k??

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby Cybaru » 25 Aug 2015 21:07

5 years is a long time to start production of 2nd indigenous carrier. But unless an exact replica is done, any studies due to extension will take a lot of time. Minimal changes might take a year or two to test.

If at all possible to extend the vikrant class, going with regular power, cat enabled, 1000 ft runway and 45-48K in displacement may be a decent compromise. Atleast the planes taking off will have teeth and range. It needs to be bigger than CDG.

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby Shreeman » 25 Aug 2015 23:32

An Indian carrier going to south china sea is a non-starter. You arent sending a fleet to vietnam, nor to any fleet reviews in japan. Likewise for china, until the new carriers are operational (about 10 years, give or take) they arent visiting bakistan. In the meantime, if you give peace a chance, you dont need bigger carriers.

The US isnt fighting a war with India. The call centers will close and US population will die hungry in a week! Who else, France included, will there be an issue with? Is there a reason for a 5 carrier navy, like expeditions to africa or 1:1 match with china? Well, the africans wont need a carrier they will welcome anything but present state of affairs. Re. china, the sub gap makes everything moot. Not to mention the determinal, will, political courage, or a functioning military industrial complex.

A third similar (down to last screw driver) platform gives a potent, usable, available force permitting doctrine to develop while 30-50 years from now power games could be played with 19 year olds lives. 2 carriers just dont do that, having to plan operashun parakrum around tendered refits of vika or vikd to pipavav.

In 10-20 years, fuel situation will be different. The present engine problems were innovations 10-20 years ago. And materials (lighter composites), weapons (home bought and made projectiles) and sensors (long range, like 80km!) will mean this buying of 30acre estate that is 350m long will mean even less than it does today.

Keep viraat going buying building her a new hull around the decayed one. And new egines, and sensors, and a flying wing. Call it Liaoning-MKI and use it for NLCA/29k training. Ridiculous? sure, but it keeps three around. These things takes weeks to wander over from the bay over to the sea. One at a time wont do.

The notion of using these devices (beyond where imported parts break or are otherwise limited) is quite nascent in the service. None of the 71 lot are flying now. This two carrier approach isnt doing anything to improve that either.

There is nothing against a Projekt Shtrong class 300m EMALS stealth retractable island dual hull F35 carrying catamaran carrier INS vishal. But that ought not to be plan A and B. What if Trump or Hillary decide LCAwise from the 90s? Any number of ranting reasons, improved modular manufacturing, improved sensor suit, ability to carry some troops, keeping people busy and skills fresh, chucking out trenton sooner could be cited.

Who turned down a basically homegrown, "free" carrier when the line has time to make it. Unless of course there will be an LCA or kolkota on vikrant and it isnt going to sea until 2025! Sounds strange, no? The kolkotas were late, may be the vik isnt coming any time soon either.

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby NRao » 26 Aug 2015 06:52

5 years is a long time to start production of 2nd indigenous carrier.


If I am not mistaken, that has about been the plan. So why are we complaining now in 2015?

My guess is that it is taking longer than the original plan only because the policy needs realignment. The question is how much. That takes some time and deep discussion.

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby Singha » 26 Aug 2015 08:39

there is no way in hell to keep viraat going. as it is, she probably cannot stand the rigors of a high tempo operational deployment and is more in a training role, keeping the sea harrier aviators and trainers in the loop.

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby Singha » 26 Aug 2015 08:41

focussing totally on subs (like the russians did) will result in no power projection capability when we need it - like intervening in a war in africa or middle east on one side in 2050 either alone or in some coalition of the willing. none can predict what level of chaos will be there in africa/middle east - probably even worse than now!

subs are good for n-deterrence, commerce raiding, recon, anti-ship and protecting certain bastion areas....but useless at influencing the course of a land based conflict or visual dissuation.

i,e, in anything short of a shooting war, subs are useless. khan shapes events well short of a shooting war by the mere presence and weight of its cvbgs. its always cheaper not to go to war, if you can scare and cow down the adversary. 99% of life is not a shooting war. there are huge political and economic benefits in 'dominating the uneasy peace' as khan has proved. it keeps allies secure, builds alliances, reassures the markets, burnishes our reputation as guarantors of peace and free trade, makes entries in the IOU book to be cashed in later.

unlike cheen we are not hemmed in by chains of islands with hostile pro-US govts within whom we have disputes. there is no challenger upto antarctica for us. we must use this sea-room to full advantage...let china waste its energies trying to build a bastion in the 75m deep water and trying to break out past the 1st and 2nd island chains....its in prison by the tyranny of geography with no easy uncontested access to open water.

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby SNaik » 26 Aug 2015 17:52

Singha wrote:subs are good for n-deterrence, commerce raiding, recon, anti-ship and protecting certain bastion areas....but useless at influencing the course of a land based conflict or visual dissuation.



American subs have been instrumental in land based conflicts as carriers of land attack cruise missiles.

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby Singha » 26 Aug 2015 19:46

^^ thats not a indispensable role, because the 688I class had only 8 thawks each (and khan has some 60 such boats to throw at it). only after 3 ohio boats have been converted to thawk has that brought a substantial heavy bombardment capability to sub arm.

in any of the wars in my lifetime fought by america, ships could just as easily lob the thawks as subs and indeed they did. even the iowa class battleships used in desert storm had boxes of tomahawks.

with our bare 6 SSN planned and perhaps maybe 12 nirbhay cells each, it wont matter....will barely scratch the hide of the dragon.

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby NRao » 26 Aug 2015 20:31

By 2025, at the very latest, that hide should reach mid-IOR.

I was hoping the Dragon would have sold a few squads of planes and most ships to shore up his market. But no he he actually makes a far better move and authorizes using a third of his people's savings. Nice, long term hit.

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby member_23370 » 27 Aug 2015 01:15

Any news of INS Kadmatt? Wasn't it supposed to be commissioned mid 2015?

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby Cosmo_R » 27 Aug 2015 01:56

Singha wrote:^^ in any of the wars in my lifetime fought by america, ships could just as easily lob the thawks as subs and indeed they did. even the iowa class battleships used in desert storm had boxes of tomahawks.


The Ticonderoga Class cruisers have 154THAWKs same as the Ohio. But the latter can't be seen until it turns up on the surface. Natural stealth and firepower vs engineered (and expensive) stealth.

SSGNs turned up in Guam having made the pacific journey undetected.

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby Kartik » 02 Sep 2015 11:27

IN to get more Mk54 lightweight torpedo kits from US

The US Department of Defense (DoD) has awarded Raytheon a USD29.75 million contract that includes the delivery of Mk 54 Mod 0 Lightweight Torpedo (LWT) kits to the Indian Navy.

The contract, which was announced on 31 August, covers the manufacture and delivery (plus engineering and repair services for the upgrades) of 100 LWT kits for the US Navy (USN) and 68 LWT kits for India, Turkey and Australia under the Foreign Military Sales (FMS) programme. The breakdown of FMS numbers was not disclosed.

Deliveries are expected to be completed by 30 September 2017.

The 230 kg, 2.59 m long Mk 54 Mod 0 is an anti-submarine torpedo used for littoral scenarios (including operation in both shallow and deep water environmental conditions). It can be launched from surface ships, submarines, helicopters, and aircraft and is interoperable with existing Mk 46 and Mk 50 launch platforms


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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby Austin » 05 Sep 2015 11:06

New Book on IN Submarine Arm

Foxtrots of the Indian Navy
Cmde. P.R. Franklin, AVSM, VSM (retd.) narrates some true accounts of the Soviet Foxtrot submarines that were in Indian Navy service. The names of the eight Foxtrots have been anagrammed to arrive at the name “Vanshali”, which is the central submarine character of these narratives. The book covers a spectrum of the activities of Foxtrots in the service including facets of training in the USSR, taking possession, bringing them to India, wartime and peacetime activities, and finally beaching a Foxtrot for display as a museum. The book has interesting revelations of a brush with a nuclear submarine in the Arabian Sea and of an Indian submarine’s predicament when confronted with the situation of meeting up with the American Carrier USS Enterprise when it entered the Bay of Bengal during 1971 Indo-Pak war.

? Commodore P.R. Franklin, AVSM, VSM, did his submarine training in Vladivostok, in erstwhile USSR. He commissioned the third and the sixth of the eight ‘Foxtrot’ class submarines that the Indian Navy purchased, and sailed them from Riga, Latvia, to India round Africa in the late sixties/early seventies. He subsequently commanded two of them. After a few squadron appointments both afloat and ashore, he headed the submarine arm as Director Submarine Operations in Naval Headquarters. Among his other appointments in the navy, he commanded the Training Squadron training officer cadets of the Indian Navy, INS Venduruthy in Kochi, was Naval Assistant to the Chief of the Naval Staff, the Naval Advisor to the Indian High Commissioner in the United Kingdom, and the Naval Officer-in-Charge Tamil Nadu & Pondicherry.

A graduate of the Defence Services Staff College, he also served as Directing Staff in that institution. He did the higher command and staff course in the former Marshal A.A.Grechkov Academy in Leningrad (renamed now as the N.G. Kuznetsov Academy in St. Petersburg). He was awarded the Vishisht Seva Medal in 1995 and the Ati Vishisht Seva Medal in 2001 by the President of India.

After retiring from the navy after 36 years of commissioned service, he was a consultant for a brief spell to a private Indian company while it produced a Submarine Control Simulator for the Indian nuclear propelled submarine, INS Arihant. He is also the author of the book titled ‘Submarine Operations’.

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby deejay » 05 Sep 2015 22:08

Sep 4 news on need to better equip Andaman base in TOI:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Chinese-naval-ships-detected-near-Andamans/articleshow/48817805.cms

With ships of the People's Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) snooping around the Andaman islands on routine basis, the ministry of defence is contemplating deploying more assets in the island chain in the days to come.

According to sources, the Andaman and Nicobar Command (ANC) - the country's only strategic command comprising the Army, Navy and Air Force - have detected Chinese naval ships very close to India's territorial waters in the recent past. A report states that PLAN ships attempt to get close at least twice every three months.

"They have been detected on every occasion and we have made it very clear to the Chinese that we are monitoring their movement. Though we have detection capabilities in the Andamans, we don't have assets that can work as a deterrent. Only landing craft and some patrol vessels of the Indian Navy are deployed in the islands. This is inadequate. There are no weapons platforms. There aren't any missiles on the islands that can be used against incoming ships or aircraft. This has to change," a senior officer from Delhi said.

READ ALSO: India looks to check China's Indian Ocean thrust

It's not uncommon for Chinese naval vessels to get close to the 10 degree channel, which is a 150km-wide channel that separates the Andaman and Nicobar chain of islands. Officers feel that the Chinese may choose the Andamans for a sudden strike instead of the mainland. After all, the Chinese know that India has an upper hand for the first 7-8 days due to her advanced air assets if an attack is launched on the mainland.

Things would change after that due to attrition and other factors but no armed conflict between two nuclear powers like India and China is expected to last more than a week before the international community intervenes.

"The only place where the Chinese can strike without facing any real opposition, merely to bother India, is the Andamans. After all, our assets on the mainland can't remain at a top level of preparedness for an indefinite period every time a Chinese warship is detected close to the islands. Capabilities of the assets from the mainland will also be hampered by bad weather and other factors. The Chinese will also factor these in if they choose to strike. The Chinese presence on Coco Islands continues to remain a matter of concern. The length of runway there has been increased to 8,000 feet. When it becomes 10,000 feet, all kinds of aircraft can land there and we will have a full-fledged Chinese base some 30-odd miles from the Andamans," the officer added.

READ ALSO: India to steadily boost military presence in Andamans

Vice Admiral Pradeep Kumar Chatterjee, commander in chief, ANC, refused to comment on these issues but told TOI that a lot is changing in the Andamans. According to him, a lot of infrastructure is being developed under his command at a speed never witnessed before. New jetties are being built and the Navy is getting one more Floating Dock. The Indian Air Force is also likely to base some assets at Car Nicobar.

"Things will change completely in the next five years. The islands will become completely fortified. Financial allocations have all been made. We are now waiting for a few environmental clearances. One has to realize that defence preparedness spurs economic activity. We have already started installing lights at the Veer Savarkar International Airport in Port Blair. Within some time, night landing can take place there. Airlines can also use the air force base at Car Nicobar as an alternative runway. In this way, tourist flow to the islands should increase. I also see no reason why airlines can't start operating international flights from Port Blair. We have even set up immigration facilities at Car Nicobar and have requested the civil administration to create accommodation there," Chatterjee said.

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby Austin » 05 Sep 2015 22:17

Do these chinese ship near Andamans enter Indian EEZ zone or do they remain in International Water and snoop ?

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby arun » 07 Sep 2015 20:48

X Posted from the “1965 war India- Pakistan: 50 years anniversary” thread.

Article by Sandeep Unnithan in Daily O titled “An old Indian beef: When Pakistan Navy killed a cow in Dwarka in 1965” :

DailyO

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby srai » 07 Sep 2015 21:34

One good side effect of Chinese aggressiveness is that it is forcing India to build infrastructure in much neglected areas along the norther/eastern border areas and islands. About time.

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby Aditya G » 08 Sep 2015 00:25

arun wrote:X Posted from the “1965 war India- Pakistan: 50 years anniversary” thread.

Article by Sandeep Unnithan in Daily O titled “An old Indian beef: When Pakistan Navy killed a cow in Dwarka in 1965” :

DailyO


We did have the opportunity to shell enemy coast in 71. It was deemed militarily unproductive and never given go ahead.

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby Bade » 08 Sep 2015 04:45

It is amazing that we were talking up building Vishal for the SCS patrols, when A&N itself is bare with no serious offensive capabilities.

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby NRao » 08 Sep 2015 05:35

While I too am surprised about the situation in A&N, the SCS is way too recent an event. Also, India will not be alone in the SCS. And actually may even be able to lean on others in the IOR.

Frankly I am far more interested in the Balouch situation. I think there are more nations interested in cutting paki to size.

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby Karthik S » 08 Sep 2015 05:56

Any news on INS Kochi commissioning? Based on this year Feb estimates, it should be commissioned in few weeks.

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby Philip » 08 Sep 2015 18:19

Our next "stone in the shoe".The Cocos island,where the Chinese have reportedly built an 8000ft long runway.Once it becomes 10K ft. and houses on a permanent basis Chinese LRMP and other naval aviation aircraft,along with a mil contingent,it will "fait accompli" like the Chinese "takeaways" in the Indo-China Sea. Burma must be told that under no circumstances will we tolerate any Chinese base there ,just as Sri Lanka has given us an assurance that Chinese subs are taboo from now on. It would be prudent to plan for special ops to render the island impotent.

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby vasu raya » 10 Sep 2015 19:46

Why INS Vajrakosh's commissioning is BIG deal

Spread out over 1000 acres, INS Vajrakosh, Indian Navy’s latest establishment which was commissioned by Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar on Wednesday, would be the home base for a bulk of the Indian Navy's strength on the western coast.

Here are some facts you should know about INS Vajrakosh:

* Constructed by DRDO at the most strategic location in the West Coast, the naval missile base will store the long-range BrahMos missiles and armaments.

* Naval units operating out of Karwar are required to be equipped with specialised armaments and missiles. These sophisticated missiles and ammunition require special storage facility and specialised servicing facilities. INS Vajrakosh will have all the required infrastructure and is manned by specialists to meet these requirements.

* The commissioning of INS Vajrakosh, the third naval establishment commissioned in Karwar, will allow the Navy to further bolster the offensive and defensive capabilities of its platforms.

* Along with INS Kadamba that was commissioned in 2005, Vajrakosh will make for one of the largest military bases complete with two airstrips, submarine pens, a ship repair yard, a dry dock, jetties for two aircraft carriers and 50 warships. INS Kadamba has the only shiplift in the country -- a giant platform that can lift ships up to 6,500 tonnes (all warships of the Indian Navy barring the aircraft carriers) and place them in a drydock.

* Vajrakosh is part of "Project Seabird", conceived by the then navy chief, Admiral Oscar Dawson, in 1985 to de-congest Mumbai harbour and locate a naval base beyond the range of Pakistani fighter aircraft. The navy chose the location for the natural defences the hills give it. Submarine pens -- covered shelters for submarines that make them difficult to detect -- are likely to be bored into the hillsides.

* INS Vajrakosh will also have a naval air station that will base the Boeing P-8i, an advanced maritime surveillance aircraft that is known as 'Poseidon'. The facility will also feature a helicopter base.

* A similar base is in the works on the east coast. Called "Project Varsha", the navy plans to base most of its assets for the eastern seaboard a few kilometres south of Visakhapatnam, which is currently the headquarters of the Eastern Naval Command. Project Varsha involves the resurrection of a Second World War airstrip built by the Americans at Rambili.

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby Ankit Desai » 10 Sep 2015 19:48

Parikkar commissions INS Vajrakosh in Karwar

Navy 'thunder chest' on Konkan coast

Surrounded by the green hills of the Malabar Coast on three sides and the blue waters of the Arabian Sea on the fourth, the Indian Navy's largest base INS Vajrakosh - "thunder chest" - was today commissioned by defence minister Manohar Parrikar.

"Missiles at INS Vajrakosh should always remain ready for operational deployment," said Parrikar.

Vajrakosh is part of "Project Seabird", conceived by the then navy chief, Admiral Oscar Dawson, in 1985 to de-congest Mumbai harbour and locate a naval base beyond the range of Pakistani fighter aircraft.

After delays, mostly because of environment issues and over resettlement of local inhabitants - a subject that Parrikar is familiar with having been chief minister of Goa - Vajrakosh, so called because it will be the repository of the navy's firepower, is now finally on stream.

Along with INS Kadamba that was commissioned in 2005, Vajrakosh will make for one of the largest military bases complete with two airstrips, submarine pens, a ship repair yard, a dry dock, jetties for two aircraft carriers and 50 warships. INS Kadamba has the only shiplift in the country - a giant platform that can lift ships up to 6,500 tonnes (all warships of the Indian Navy barring the aircraft carriers) and place them in a drydock.

The second phase of Project Seabird alone costs Rs 20,000 crore. The first cost Rs 5,000 crore.

The military base has come up along a fascinating coastline where the hills roll down to the sea. It has involved the acquisition of land in which coconut palms swayed gently and thousands of people had to be moved, their houses and temples razed in the North Karanataka district near the border with Goa.

A delegation of villagers met Parrikar after the commissioning and complained that they have not yet been compensated.

The navy chose the location for the natural defences the hills give it. Submarine pens - covered shelters for submarines that make them difficult to detect - are likely to be bored into the hillsides.

A similar base is in the works on the east coast. Called "Project Varsha", the navy plans to base most of its assets for the eastern seaboard a few kilometres south of Visakhapatnam that is currently the headquarters of the Eastern Naval Command. Project Varsha involves the resurrection of a Second World War airstrip built by the Americans at Rambili.

Defence ministry spokesperson Sitanshu Kar said Parrikar was briefed on the future expansion plans of Karwar Naval Base including a proposed air station. The navy wants the air base for its maritime surveillance P8i aircraft and as a base for its helicopters.

It was little wonder that Parrikar said Karwar would be one of the most environment-friendly establishments, given the recent history of displacement and development.

"Karwar will be one of the cleanest naval bases in the world with the least carbon footprint," he said.

In an official statement, the navy said units operating out of Karwar are required to be equipped with specialised armaments and missiles. These sophisticated missiles and ammunition require special storage facility and specialised servicing facilities.

INS Vajrakosh will have all the required infrastructure and is manned by specialists to meet these requirements.

"With the ongoing expansion of the Indian Navy, there has been an increase in the number of ships, submarines and aircraft equipped with specialised armament and missiles. These need to be stowed and maintained in the best possible manner throughout their service life," said the navy chief, Admiral Robin Dhowan.


-Ankit

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby Aditya G » 10 Sep 2015 23:00

Whats the difference between INS Kadamba and INS Vajrakosh?

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby srai » 11 Sep 2015 01:27

^^^

Sounds like the former is a ship repair/refit part of Project Seabird. The latter is the main naval base (also part of Project Seabird) housing ships, submarines, aircrafts and arsenal.


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