Indian Navy News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby srai » 29 Sep 2015 17:44

Barak-8 LR w/ booster vs Barak-8 MR:
Image

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby tsarkar » 29 Sep 2015 19:12

Akshay Kapoor wrote:Question for Naval gurus - what is our doctrine that leads us to have just 32 VLS cells for SAMs in our Project 15 A and B destroyers. There must be some logic to this ??

High SSKP - Single Shot Kill Probability. Infact the best SSKP among all naval SAMs today in the world.

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby SNaik » 29 Sep 2015 19:53

tsarkar wrote:
Akshay Kapoor wrote:Question for Naval gurus - what is our doctrine that leads us to have just 32 VLS cells for SAMs in our Project 15 A and B destroyers. There must be some logic to this ??

High SSKP - Single Shot Kill Probability. Infact the best SSKP among all naval SAMs today in the world.

That's according to Israel Aerospace Industries ;)

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby Karan M » 29 Sep 2015 20:20

Singha wrote:i am thinking they have increased the 1st stage booster fatness or length to really use the full length of the VL cell and get the increase in range. with china developing multiple families of supersonic ASM and a huge fleet of naval strike platforms, the farther out you can engage the better. thats why USN going for the 150km range SM6 with its amraam based 2nd stage....its is 21 feet long, 1.5 tons, 21" diameter. barak8 is a lot slimmer around 8" and about same length.

we too need a bigger missile than Barak8 to range out to 150km.


There will be a mix of missiles. Booster increases minimum range of engagement and is hence a trade off.

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby Singha » 29 Sep 2015 20:33

yah yah love the fat barak8-LR with the fat booster..thats more like it.

right now there is no clarity if the IN will only deploy the barak8 (70km) or the barak8-LR as well

and barak1 would be much cheaper as a close in ciws missile vs the barak8

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby Cain Marko » 29 Sep 2015 21:29

Question is how can you engage a sea skimming target out to 100+ km unless you have some kind of oth realtime targeting asset in place? Only thing 150km barak can really be effective against is high flying platforms and possibly supersonic in the high flight profile part of their trajectory...once they dive down, it is all down to short range engagement, no? Just some random thoughts

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby brar_w » 29 Sep 2015 21:48

Not all sea skimming targets fly low at those distances. The best way to kill a sea skimming threat at long range is to take it out in its cruise phase when it is flying at higher altitudes.

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby Aditya G » 29 Sep 2015 23:45

Austin wrote:Inside India's New and Deadliest Warship - Written by Vishnu Som

http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/inside-i ... eststories


Vishnu - thanks.

But the Indian task force commander knew that he was being monitored. His long-range Russian-built surface search radar, had picked up intermittent contacts - at least two of the contacts matched the profile of Chinese warships. But no one could be sure.


Is this a reference to Grapun Bal?

I imagine that below is really advanced stuff.

The data provided by the MCR's systems are part of the Ship's Data Network (SDM), the backbone of what is an information highway onboard the ship. Data from the SDM can be tapped across the ship on a need to know basis. A key part of the Ship Data Network System is the Combat Management System (CMS) which processes data from the sensors (radars, sonars and electronic warning systems) and the weapon systems. All of this is primarily routed to the Operations Centre of the warship, though in the event of damage to the Ops Centre during a battle, can be accessed from several stand-alone consoles spread across the ship.

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby Aditya G » 30 Sep 2015 01:34

Image

Captain Rajesh Pendharkar (left), commanding officer of aircraft carrier INS Viraat, arrives on the flight deck of the vessel for an interaction with the media. In the backdrop is the first indigenous aircraft carrier INS Vikrant, undergoing outfitting at the moment.— Photo: Thulasi Kakkat

http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/Koc ... 694037.ece

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby Cain Marko » 30 Sep 2015 03:22

^ just wondering...if the viraat is still in excellent shape, can they use it for another 10+ years until the Vi shall comes along with a few silver bullets on board...the JSF....one has a distinct feeling that this will be the IN next gen fighter, would give the navy useful exPerience. Maybe the the bromance btw obama and modi can arrange for a dozen jsf at cost..If not, any possibility of converting it to a heli carrier in the short term. Yes, it will cost, but csl could do it cheaper than most...

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby srai » 30 Sep 2015 03:22

Singha wrote:yah yah love the fat barak8-LR with the fat booster..thats more like it.

right now there is no clarity if the IN will only deploy the barak8 (70km) or the barak8-LR as well

and barak1 would be much cheaper as a close in ciws missile vs the barak8


AFAIK, Barak-8 can do the job of Barak-1 at intercepting ASMs at close ranges. One less missile type to integrate and acquire.

If the IN is also getting Barak-8LR with booster, then ships like Kolkata would want to carry a mix of non-booster and with booster variants to meet both short-range and extra-long range threats. At that point it would make sense to add more Barak-8 VLS cells to retain current levels of 32 MR missiles plus space for 16 LR. These should be 48 Barak UVLS modules so that any desired combo can be carried.

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby Karthik S » 30 Sep 2015 03:33

srai wrote:
Singha wrote:yah yah love the fat barak8-LR with the fat booster..thats more like it.

right now there is no clarity if the IN will only deploy the barak8 (70km) or the barak8-LR as well

and barak1 would be much cheaper as a close in ciws missile vs the barak8


AFAIK, Barak-8 can do the job of Barak-1 at intercepting ASMs at close ranges. One less missile type to integrate and acquire.

If the IN is also getting Barak-8LR with booster, then ships like Kolkata would want to carry a mix of non-booster and with booster variants to meet both short-range and extra-long range threats. At that point it would make sense to add more Barak-8 VLS cells to retain current levels of 32 MR missiles plus space for 16 LR. These should be 48 Barak UVLS modules so that any desired combo can be carried.


16 more Baraks can easily be added given the amount of space available in the ship. I wonder if both Kolkata and Visakhapatnam classes will have land attack roles as no news of Nirbhay on them is available. Would love to have similar load out as Arleigh Burke.

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby Singha » 30 Sep 2015 08:11

>> One less missile type to integrate and acquire.

the barak1 would be a lot cheaper and smaller and will not waste the precious 32 or future 48 barak8 size cells. even the Nirbhay might fit in these cells.

they can be sited at the back near the funnel perhaps 16-24 in two locations.

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby JE Menon » 30 Sep 2015 09:49

INS Kochi has been commissioned - TimesNow

http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/inside-i ... ip-1223971

A nice write up by Vishnu Som (sorry if posted already).

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby Singha » 30 Sep 2015 10:23

all those on the aegis bandwagon - USN/japan/Soko/Australia facing BM threats are moving to a dual mix on their DDGs.
- SM3 for TBMD, using multiple blocks and KVs in phase approach
- SM6 for long range SAM, but agile KV 2nd stage capable of dealing with fighters and CM's not just bombers
CIWS work left to ESSM,RAM,Phalanx for now, with lasers etc later.

likewise given the same DF21 and multiple supersonic LR-ASM threats facing IN, we need to define and work on a roadmap towards a Sea-based BM defence given that DF21 types have become a ASM!! higher and farther out you can track and target more time you give everyone - more shots, more time to warm up countermeasures.......

its time to look at putting the AAD and AD1/2 at sea with the necessary big radar on the back mast, while the MF-star performs both the missile guidance and air search function, which I think its quite capable of doing alone. we need bigger stick on the rear mast than the RAWL, whatever swordfish etc is used on land.

a couple of successful sea based BM tests will send shock waves further east...as our naval units and A&N islands would have agile and organic BM defence.

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby Multatuli » 30 Sep 2015 10:54

INS Kochi, largest India-made warship, commissioned

MUMBAI/NEW DELHI: Naval warship INS Kochi, the largest-ever warship to be built in India, was commissioned by defence minister Manohar Parrikar at the Naval Dockyard in Mumbai.

Finish of the INS Kochi is good as any foreign ship, Manohar Parrikar said.

"Jahi Shatrun Mahabaho" loosely means "Armed to conquer the enemy" in Sanskrit. It's an apt motto for guided-missile destroyer INS Kochi, packed with weapons and sensors as well as advanced stealth features.

Destroyers are second only to aircraft carriers in projecting raw combat power on the high seas. Induction of the 7,500-tonne INS Kochi, the second of the three Kolkata-class destroyers being built at Mazagaon Docks (MDL) at Mumbai for over Rs 4,000 crore apiece, will make it the 10th destroyer in India's combat fleet.

The first of this class, INS Kolkata, was commissioned in August last year, while the third INS Chennai will be inducted towards end-2016. There is also the even bigger ongoing Rs 29,644-crore project to build another four stealth destroyers at MDL, with the first INS Visakhapatnam slated for delivery in 2018-2019.

It's no wonder the Navy is all excited. "INS Kochi will add more teeth to the Indian Navy's sword arm in discharging our duty of safe-guarding maritime interests in the Indian Ocean Region (IOR). It further reaffirms our resolve and faith in indigenous ship-building and the 'Make in India' programme," said Admiral Robin Dhowan on Monday.

The Navy, on its part, has plans to become a 200-warship force with around 600 aircraft and helicopters by 2027 to ensure it can effectively guard the country's expanding geo-strategic interests in the backdrop of the IOR emerging as "the world's centre of gravity".

The IOR has over 120 warships at any given time, with China fast becoming a force to reckon with in the region. China is expanding its naval footprint mainly to safeguard its energy supplies passing through the IOR but India can ill-afford to ignore its strategic moves.

"We have to be on guard. India's developmental destiny is strongly linked to the seas around us. While we do not want competition with China to turn into conflict in IOR, we have to be ready and keep our powder dry," said another senior officer.

But while the Navy is doing well with "surface combatants", the acute shortage of submarines, helicopters and minesweepers continues to remain a big worry. Take submarines, for instance. The Navy has just 13 old conventional diesel-electric submarines and one nuclear-powered boat on lease from Russia.

This when China already has five nuclear and 51 conventional submarines in its underwater fleet, apart from being close to inducting five new JIN-class nuclear submarines armed with long-range ballistic missiles. Pakistan, too, has recently ordered eight more conventional submarines from China to add to the five it already has.

But the defence ministry is still nowhere close to issuing the tender for Project-75-India to build six advanced submarines, with both land-attack cruise missiles and air-independent propulsion for greater underwater endurance, at a cost of around Rs 80,000 crore. It will take at least 10 years for the first of these new submarines to roll out.

The ongoing Rs 23,562 crore project to construct six French Scorpene submarines at MDL is also running over four years behind schedule, with the first boat to be now delivered by September 2016 at the earliest. Moreover, the government is still to resolve the imbroglio over the proposed Rs 1,800 crore deal to buy 98 heavy-weight torpedoes for the Scorpenes."Jahi Shatrun Mahabaho" loosely means "Armed to conquer the enemy" in Sanskrit. It's an apt motto for guided-missile destroyer INS Kochi, packed with weapons and sensors as well as advanced stealth features.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 162943.cms

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby John » 30 Sep 2015 16:10

brar_w wrote:Not all sea skimming targets fly low at those distances. The best way to kill a sea skimming threat at long range is to take it out in its cruise phase when it is flying at higher altitudes.


There are only very few AshM like shipwreck or brahmos that can be detected during cruise phase because of their hi lo flight profile. Most other missiles including brahmos when it is lo lo flight profile cannot be detected during their cruise phase because they fly at around 10 to 100 meter which is still beliw radar hotizon.

Only way to get around it is to utilize Airborne platforms to detect and track these targets and use them to guide missiles.

As for Barak israel has tested an improved variant capable of intercepting yakhont like missiles and rockets, from ins lahav which if you recall has Mf Star and 16 barak 8.

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby brar_w » 30 Sep 2015 17:13

There are only very few AshM like shipwreck or brahmos that can be detected during cruise phase because of their hi lo flight profile.


Most of the modern missiles out there can be launched using varying profiles from high-high-low to high-low-low to obviously low-low. Most of the longer ranged Chinese missiles in development can as well so the there is plenty of threat out there that will be launched at long ranges to maximize platform survivability but the point is true, you need off board sensors to target something that low, however the capability that a long range SAM provides is to take out a long range cruise missile before it gets low, or to take out the shooter if it tries to get closer to launch a weapon in a shorter ranged LOW-LOW profile. For a surface shooter threat you obtain a similar capability, i.e. try to pack longer ranged anti-ship weapons of your own (out stick the enemy) and have better targeting and C2 for those long range shots.

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby Singha » 30 Sep 2015 18:38

brahmos lo-lo-lo range is only 120km. the Klub/brahmos I think flies at some 25,000ft most of the 300km and then drops to low level around 25m for the last 50km only, and goes active with radar......for last few km they might drop even lower.

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby John » 30 Sep 2015 21:20

I cant comment on chinese Ashm it is hard to seperate fact from fiction. But regarding klub it flies lo lo and same is true with moskit which also flies below detection range of the target till terminal phase.

Some missiles even optimises their flight altitude during cruise phase, so based on distance to target and radar horizon it flies at a particular altitude which is below the targets detection range.

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby brar_w » 30 Sep 2015 21:34

Potentially all modern day Anti Ship Missiles can do that but they can also be launched at a much higher altitude thereby maximizing the distance of launch and survivability of the platform. With the SM6 extending the ship's air defenses out considerably don't expect the Chinese to look to penetrate that entire reach by just flying low and fast..You aren't going to be able to do that unless you have absolutely no problem with the size, weight or cost parameters. Which then leads to the other concerns on how to kill a ship from farther out than the current longest range anti cruise missile defense system - the solution for all practical purpose is to either risk the platform and try to get in low, or launch the AShM from much longer ranges flying a High-High-Low profile with a terminal sea-skimming cruise phase of around 50 or so Km's. Which then again gets to the point, of what is the best strategy to kill a supersonic anti ship missile at long ranges? Do you want to invest in something that can kill a sea skimmer at 150 km away when it is traveling at Mach 2.4 and below the radar coverage? Or do you want to kill it out at medium altitudes, or look to kill the launch platform etc. A Long Range Barak variant will look to do exactly what the SM6 does that is go after the Anti Ship missile at a much stand-off distance. Of course sea-skimming intercepts using onboard sensors will still be in the sub-1-minute window unless one has a UAV, or some other sensor type flying overhead for constant coverage.

Of course we have discussed this before -

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 2#p1707979

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby vasu raya » 01 Oct 2015 02:37

INS Kochi launched

These destroyers will soon have a weapon system to provide credible protection against the primary threat to large warships - sea-skimming, anti-ship missiles (like the Harpoon, or Exocet) fired from over 100 kilometres away by enemy aircraft, ships or submarines.

Protection against this threat will come from the long-delayed LR-SAM, which Indian and Israeli engineers are finally close to completing. Far surpassing the current generation of anti-missile missiles, which have ranges of just 20-30 kilometres, the LR-SAM was designed to detect incoming anti-ship missiles at ranges beyond 100 kilometres and destroy them in mid-flight at ranges out to 70 kilometres.

Recent tests suggest this performance could get even better. On September 25, authoritative defence blog Livefist reported that the LR-SAM had successfully destroyed anti-ship missiles at ranges out to 90 kilometres, in recent tests in Israel.

If operationally deployed LR-SAMs can replicate these test results, destroyers like INS Kochi would safeguard the entire fleet with a vast protective bubble against anti-ship missiles. Yet, the wait continues for another vital system: "advanced towed array sonar" (ATAS), that is essential for detecting enemy submarines in the warm, shallow waters of the Arabian Sea, where salinity and temperature gradients baffle conventional "bow mounted sonar", making Indian warships blind to lurking enemy submarines.

An order has been placed with German company, Atlas Elektronik, for six ATAS systems. These, however, are earmarked for the three Delhi-class destroyers; and three Talwar-class frigates.

The defence ministry has failed to progress a second order for ten more ATAS systems. These are earmarked for three Kolkata-class destroyers; three Shivalik-class frigates, and four Kamorta-class corvettes that Garden Reach Shipbuilders & Engineers, Kolkata is building.

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby nachiket » 01 Oct 2015 03:21

What is the name of the 3rd ship of the Kolkata class?

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby Suraj » 01 Oct 2015 03:41

INS Chennai

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby Shrinivasan » 01 Oct 2015 09:36

Singha wrote:A good idea. One big rbu in front with more reloads and two x 76mm oto srgm like Italy horizon ships. This will beef up anti missile ability

Why doesn't IN ever have two main guns... this has been sort of a tradition from INS Delhi (which we designed and built in India) where we had 100mm main gun. 76mm OTO SRGM has a smaller foot print, having one in the front and another in the middle would be a good idea (or even both in the front).

Also I see one 2x4 Brahmos VLS in the front, where is the second set of Brahmos?

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby srai » 01 Oct 2015 09:53

^^^

VLS module for Brahmos is 8-celled.

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby Philip » 01 Oct 2015 10:04

The future challenge for the IN.

Revealed: Why China Is Selling Submarines to Pakistan
Image Credit: Public Domain image via Wikimedia Commons
Revealed: Why China Is Selling Submarines to Pakistan
Does the sale represent a step in China’s possible ambitions to have a toehold in the Indian Ocean?
By Benjamin David Baker
September 28, 2015

As previously covered by The Diplomat, Pakistan announced earlier this year that it has agreed to purchase eight modified Type 41 Yuan-class diesel-electric submarines from China.
These boats will provide Islamabad with much-needed Anti-Access/Area Denial (A2/AD) capabilities against the Indian Navy in case of war. This would be especially useful in case of an Indian blockade of Pakistan’s coast and could give New Delhi grounds to pause before deploying its planned new aircraft carrier, the INS Vikrant.

A Yuan-class submarine is undoubtedly a great piece of kit. It is China’s first class of submarines to incorporate an indigenously designed- and constructed Air-Independent Propulsion system (AIP), giving it a cruise speed of 18 knots and an operational range of 8,000 nautical miles. Although the export version of the Yuan, named the S-20, does not automatically come fitted with the AIP, Pakistan has apparently been able to secure it for its subs. Furthermore, the Yuan is integrated “with advanced noise reduction techniques including anechoic tiles, passive/active noise reduction and an asymmetrical seven-blade skewed propeller.”

Combined with the AIP, this makes the Yuan-class the quietest non-nuclear sub in the PLAN. Furthermore, the Yuan has an impressive set of teeth. Aside from six tubes firing standard 553mm torpedoes, it is equipped with the YJ-8/8A Anti-Ship Cruise Missile (ASCM). While this weapon only has a maximum range of between 30-42 km, there are plans to equip the Yuans with the YJ-18 ASCM. These missiles have a reported range of 220 km and, represent a real A2/AD “force multiplier” for the Yuan. Whether Pakistan will attempt to acquire these missiles, or opt to go for another option (such as their indigenously produced Hatf VII Babur) is unknown.

The sale raises one crucial question: why is China selling Pakistan these subs? There is undoubtedly a commercial aspect to this transaction (it is unknown how much Pakistan will pay for these boats, although it is certainly in the multi-billion dollar range). However, one potential reason which is worrying analysts in New Delhi is that this represents a step in China’s possible ambitions to have a toehold in the Indian Ocean. Without opening the can of worms that is the “String of Pearls” debate, it’s worth looking at this possibility.

Here are the facts: Firstly, the Indian Ocean is important for China for a range of reasons. The amount of Chinese sea-borne trade which passes through the Indian Ocean sea-lane is staggering. These sea-lines of communication (SLOCs) represent a lifeline for the Chinese economy, not least in terms of imports of natural resources, especially hybrocarbons, and exports, in terms of manufactured goods. Any naval strategist worth his salt has read Alfred Thayer Mahan, and will immediately recognize the importance of securing a trading state’s SLOCs. China is no exception.

Secondly, China has recently deployed submarines to the Indian Ocean. (This, incidentally, included the visit of a Yuan-class boat to Karachi.) According to Beijing, these are primarily there to participate in the ongoing anti-piracy campaign in the Gulf of Aden. While this is at least partially true, it is also likely that they are conducting exercises, surveys, and perhaps even combat patrols which can be useful for future operations in the Indian Ocean. Thirdly, Beijing does care about its image and is “realistic” about its power-projection capabilities. According to a recent US Naval War College report, it’s unlikely that China will construct overseas bases in the same way that the United States or France have in the near future in fear of alarming other stakeholders and overstretching naval resources needed closer to home. Finally, China is a long way from the Indian Ocean, and Pakistan is its closest partner in the neighborhood.

Even if its subs can stay at sea for months without refueling at a time, its crews can’t. Having a well-fitted anchorage close to a submarine’s intended area of operations makes it much easier to rotate crews, take on fresh supplies, and carry out maintenance. The PLAN has already called on ports in Oman, Djibouti, and Aden during its anti-piracy campaigns in the Gulf of Aden. However, this has so far only included surface vessels. Submarines often require more specialized facilities to function effectively. Locating a resupply place (not base) in the friendliest state in the area makes sense.

A Pakistani naval facility which already berths compatible subs sounds like a good fit for such a “place.” It would remove the need to permanently station a large number of personnel and equipment abroad, while providing adequate maintenance facilities for the sort of routine repairs that submarines unavoidably need in order to function smoothly over long periods of time. This wouldn’t represent the first time this kind of arrangement has occurred. For example, the British Oberon-class was used by several other allied states during the Cold War, including Australia and Canada. The fact that these navies operated the same class of vessels facilitated maintenance during exercises and visits.


*The "facility" is Gwadar,whihc the Pakis have allotted to China.

On a related issue,Indonesia appproves purchase of Kilo subs.
Along with the Vietnamese navy and the IN,this will increase the number of Kilo subs in the region,good future support business for Pipavav,who are to maintain/support Russian Kilo subs in the region!

National House support plans to buy Russian submarine thejakartapost.com, Jakarta | National | Tue, September 29 2015, The government's plan to purchase Kilo-class submarines from Russia has received support from the House of Representatives (DPR) Commission I overseeing defense and foreign affairs due to sufficient budget.According to the commission's member Sukamta, the Indonesian Military (TNI) had proposed a budget of Rp 37 trillion (US$2.52 billion) and an additional budget allocation of Rp 14.5 trillion for the Navy (TNI AL), which was the largest compared to the budget allocation for the Army (TNI AD) and the Air Force (TNI AU)."Indonesia is a maritime country, since around 70 percent of its territory is oceanic, so sea security must be prioritized," said Sukamta on Tuesday as quoted by Antara news agency.Sukamta said the submarine was currently the most sophisticated of its kind. "It's similar to the Sukhoi SU-35 aircraft, which the Air Force wanted to have," said Sukamta.He then referred to the upcoming ASEAN Economic Society (EMA) that would be faced by Indonesia as well as the potential for conflict in the South China Sea."[Increasingly] our maritime defense and security is becoming a priority," said Sukamta.He also called on the government to plan carefully prior to the purchase, including ensuring the submarine's size was suitable for the archipelago's marine areas, the ease of maintenance and the ease of access to spare parts. "We don't want to buy weaponry that is not suitable for our sea defense needs," said Sukamta. (edn/kes)(++++) - See more at: http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2015 ... ZFrxo.dpuf

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby Aditya G » 01 Oct 2015 23:30

Shrinivasan wrote:...Why doesn't IN ever have two main guns...


ICG is a tad better. SDRE yes, but 2x30 mm in super configuration

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Mi9sbLMF1aE/V ... C_0794.JPG

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby Vipul » 03 Oct 2015 00:16

Andhra Pradesh to allot 1965 acres to build Naval base in Vishakapatnam District.


The cabinet also decided to allot 1,965 acres of land to build a naval base at Rayavaram village in Visakhapatnam district, AP Minister for Information and Public Relations Palle Raghunatha Reddy told reporters.

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby Aditya G » 03 Oct 2015 02:15

New ISVs have been commissioned

Ship Status Commissioned Squadron
T-48 Active 29-Sep-15 82nd ISV Squadron
T-49 Active 29-Sep-15 82nd ISV Squadron
T-50 Active 29-Sep-15 82nd ISV Squadron

There are 23 ISVs, supplied by 3 different vendors.

Older units:

Name Pennant No Date of Commission
T-11 T 11 30 Jan 2014
T-12 T 12 30 Jan 2014
T-13 T 13 30 Jan 2014
T-14 T 14 30 Jan 2014
T-15 T 15 30 Jan 2014
T-16 T 16 30 Jan 2014
T-17 T 17 30 Jan 2014
T-35 T 35 04 Jun 2014
T-36 T 36 04 Jun 2014
T-37 T 37 04 Jun 2014
T-44 T 44 22 Jan 2015
T-45 T 45 22 Jan 2015
T-46 T 46 22 Jan 2015

Philip
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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby Philip » 03 Oct 2015 12:35

Brar,there was a futuristic RN study/concept a couple of weeks ago for a 2050 surface combatant. One v.int feature was a flight deck at the stern which had several "flying saucer" type UAV/CAVs.It will be inevitable for warships/task forces to have 24X7 AEW assets to give at least 150-200KM warning of incomings. Such endurance can only be from unmanned long endurance designs. I wonder whwether there have also been some experiments with towed aerostats.These need not be tethered to combat ships but the larger auxs. part of the fleet.

ThyssenKrupp in talks with ADAG for Indian submarine contract worth Rs 50,000 crore
By Ravi Teja Sharma, ET Bureau | 1 Oct, 2015, 07.26PM IST

Read more at:
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/art ... aign=cppst


If we get U-boats,mentioned many a time,we would have the best from Russia (N-sub tech +Kilos),Scorpenes from Fr. and German tech to continue our experience with the U-209s.It's worth recollecting that the Germans refused to sell pak U-boats because of fears that the etch would land up in China. The U-boats have sold v.well in the Far East,SoKo,etc.,being built in SoKo too. However,any new U-boat design must incorporate the accommodation of BMos and Nirbhay.

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby Aditya G » 04 Oct 2015 03:08

Indian Navy ship numbers.

Aircraft Carriers: 02
Destroyers & Frigates: 25
Corvettes: 25
OPV: 10

With INS Kochi inducted the surface fleet numbers have hit a high when it comes to capital ships. 2016 unfortunately will see the start of a new wave of retirals beginning with INS Viraat & INS Godavari. INS Rajput should be on its way out sometime soon. LCU Mk3 should start retiring as well.

Ships on order:

Latest news reports indicate 44 on order. I can count 47. If I exclude INS Arihant, Aridaman and OSS then 44 matches. +1 is a target vessel by ABG, which I guess Navy doesnt count under 44.

Following projects are at risk:

2 x CTS: ABG is bankrupt but it is trying to deliver.
2 x Makar Class: Alcock Ashdown is bankrupt. I think Navy should write off this acquisition.
5 x NOPV: Pipavav. No news but recent acquisition by ADAG should help

Philip
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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby Philip » 04 Oct 2015 19:18

http://www.defensenews.com/story/defens ... /73080846/
India Restricts Naval Gear Acquisition to Domestic Firms
By Vivek Raghuvanshi 11:06 a.m. EDT October 3, 2015

NEW DELHI — India's Ministry of Defence has drawn up a list of warship systems and equipment that it will only acquire from domestic industry, an MoD source said, although the Navy will continue to depend on imports for weapons and equipment.

The move follows a decision earlier this year to limit warship and submarine building to domestic industry from the design stage, while allowing import of select systems and equipment.

This equipment has been divided into categories: Float, Move and Fight.

Whereas the list reserved for domestic sources includes systems and equipment from the Float and Move categories, the Indian Navy will continue to import items from the Fight category, the MoD source added.

“The domestic sector will have to be patronized, keeping the long-term requirement of self-reliance in mind," said naval architect S. Navaneetha Krishnan, a retired Indian Navy. "If the domestic sector/shipyard is not confident, then they should be permitted to develop a tie-up with a suitable foreign original equipment manufacturer [OEM]. The advantage of this approach will be that the Indian industry will get technology in selected areas.”

A Navy official said, “The Indian Navy will continue to be dependent on imports of weapons and equipment listed in the Fight category, including surface-to-air missiles, surveillance radars, early warning radars, satellite communication systems, aviation control suites, fire-control systems, light and heavyweight torpedoes, towed array sonars.”

The items listed under the Float category include aircraft lifts, composite superstructures and paints for hull. The Move category includes gas turbines, main propulsion diesel engines, marine gearboxes, propellers, air independent propulsion, steam generation equipment and canned motor pumps.

While the domestic industry is nearly capable of supplying the necessary equipment under the Float category, the Navy will continue to depend on imports for weapons and equipment because of the high cost of research and development.

“Most of the equipment in the Float category can be indigenously produced," Krishnan said. "However, some in the Move and Fight categories will have to be jointly developed with the help of some foreign OEM since the Indian Navy may not be able to afford to spend time and money on the research and development for these items.

"The domestic market will also not be ready to invest in R&D if there is no surety. This is one of the reasons for inadequate R&D in high-tech defense equipment," Krishnan said.

While 90 percent of equipment under the Float category is indigenous, the dependence on imports for weapons and equipment will continue, said Anil Jai Singh, a retired Indian Navy commodore.

"Unfortunately, not enough is being done to address this, and we will continue to be dependent on imports or saddle the forces with second-rate obsolete technology under the garb of indigenization,” Singh said.

“Indian shipyards have the capability to undertake construction of warships and submarines," said Shyam Kumar Singh, a retired Indian Navy captain. "As regards design, we have full capability for design of warships and reasonably good capability for design of submarines. Indian industry has also grown and achieved confidence in this field. I am restricting myself to hull [Float] and propulsion [Move] categories only. We have a long way to go for guns and weapons.”

The MoD has also decided that while some systems in the Move and Fight categories will need to be imported in the short term, the Indian government's Defence Research and Development Organization will need to focus on developing these systems with help from overseas sources, the MoD source added.

Sujeet Samaddar, a retired Indian Navy commodore said, “There is no need to make every nut and bolt of a ship or aircraft in India. Prudent self-reliance is a smart mix of Indian and global content.”

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby Ankit Desai » 06 Oct 2015 05:02

4 More French Submarines to Meet Indian Navy’s Requirement

France may get further orders to supply conventional submarines, in order to meet the Indian Navy’s critical requirement of underwater capability. According to sources in South Block, the French firm DCNS, which is already building six Scorpene submarines in partnership with Mumbai-based Mazagaon Dock Limited, is likely to get a follow-on order for more such submarines. The Indian Navy has been struggling to maintain its depleting submarine fleet, especially after a spate of accidents last year.

India’s submarine strength is now officially down to 15, which includes nine Kilo class (EKMs), four German-designed HDWs (SSKs) and one Akula class nuclear-powered submarine (SSN) on lease from Russia (since 2012) and the INS Arihant, the country’s first indigenous nuclear-powered submarine, which is undergoing various levels of sea trials.

The defence PSU MDL, which is developing the Scorpene-class submarine Kalvari, undocked in April this year, is carrying out sea trials. It is likely to be commissioned in September next year and thereafter, the remaining five submarines will follow every nine months, as per the revised schedule. The remaining five boats of Project 75 would be delivered to the Navy by 2020 and would form the core of the Navy’s submarine arm for the next two decades.

While the first four are conventional submarines, the last two are to be equipped with the Air Independent Propulsion (AIP) system, which will enable the vessel to stay underwater for longer. The process of acquiring six more submarines under Project 75 is yet to kick off, as the government is still in the process of finalising the shipyard.


-Ankit

Philip
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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby Philip » 06 Oct 2015 09:30

A good decision to build more subs at MDL. This may be related to the Raffy deal,pricing,etc.with a poss. reduction in the price of extra Scorpenesa.Earlier reports indicated that the French offered more subs at lower costs than those built in India. It also ensures that MDL maintains its privileged position of building subs for the IN,which was under threat from pvt. yards. We operate 9 Kilos of which by 2020 some will have to pass on into the night. The U-boats are supposedly being upgraded to soldier on for some more time with sub-launched Harpoons.The extra Scorpenes will fill the gap in retiring subs,but what has yet to be determined is which AIP system will feature the latter ones.Will the DRDO get its desi AIP system act in time? For the sake of commonality and having a larger inventory of the type must've weighed heavily on the decision makers ,but what weaponry will these Scorpenes possess? Both French and German subs do not have any weaponry the equal of either Klub or BMos,with their anti-ship and land attack variants. Even the 8 Chinese Yuan subs that Pak will get could have 200km range anti-ship/land attack missiles.Will Russia relent and allow them to be installed if they get the P-75I requirement? The Bmos-M programme should be accelerated as that missile will be able to be fired from std. tubes.

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby tsarkar » 06 Oct 2015 13:45

SNaik wrote:
tsarkar wrote:High SSKP - Single Shot Kill Probability. Infact the best SSKP among all naval SAMs today in the world.
That's according to Israel Aerospace Industries ;)


SNaik, normally, I'm very circumspect of vendor advertising data. However, this data comes not from the vendor, but from the user who is part of the development team.

Typically SAMs are launched in salvoes of 2 to ensure even if the first one misses, the second one has a chance. But even for the older Barak 1, the first missile hit the target. And the targets were not just older P-15 missiles, but newer ones. The Barak-1 has phenomenal algorithms. And the ECCM is again state of the art.

The Barak-8 takes it to a whole new level. It works against both sea skimming and ballistic trajectories simultaneously.

IN has access to Aster data, that the French were very keen to offer.

The 48 Shtil missiles were good for 24 engagements with salvoes of 2. The 32 Barak-8 are good for 32 engagements.

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby mody » 06 Oct 2015 14:33

Good decision to go in for 4 more Scorpenes. They should try and increase the indigenous content in the follow on 4 subs and put in our own sonar, Varunastra torpedoes (hopefull they will be ready by then), Indian batteries and maybe also the Steel from SAIL. Brahmos-M is really needed as soon as possible. If we get Brhmos-M, then it can replace the Exocet.
DRDO developed AIP is already slated to go into the last two Scorpenes from the current lot. Slightly improved version, based on the experience gained, can go into the follow on 4 subs.

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby kit » 06 Oct 2015 15:47

Aditya G wrote:Indian Navy ship numbers.

Aircraft Carriers: 02
Destroyers & Frigates: 25
Corvettes: 25
OPV: 10

With INS Kochi inducted the surface fleet numbers have hit a high when it comes to capital ships. 2016 unfortunately will see the start of a new wave of retirals beginning with INS Viraat & INS Godavari. INS Rajput should be on its way out sometime soon. LCU Mk3 should start retiring as well.

Ships on order:

Latest news reports indicate 44 on order. I can count 47. If I exclude INS Arihant, Aridaman and OSS then 44 matches. +1 is a target vessel by ABG, which I guess Navy doesnt count under 44.

Following projects are at risk:

2 x CTS: ABG is bankrupt but it is trying to deliver.
2 x Makar Class: Alcock Ashdown is bankrupt. I think Navy should write off this acquisition.
5 x NOPV: Pipavav. No news but recent acquisition by ADAG should help


is the navy getting top heavy like the air force ? or has it delegated some to the CG ?

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby Vipul » 06 Oct 2015 20:51

Good decision as if MDL loses out to the private sector for building new subs for the Navy then it would have resulted in loosing out the fabrication skills which MDL had regained after the HDW program came to an end. IIRC all the hulls of the earlier ordered six scorpene are done. This new order will be just in time.

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby arun » 06 Oct 2015 21:18

50 meter catamaran hulled Torpedo Launch and Recovery Vessel (TLRV) built by Bharuch based private sector yard Shoft Shipyard, INS Astradharini, commissioned.

Torpedo launch vessel commissioned


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