Indian Navy News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby KBDagha » 23 Feb 2016 11:32

Some good pics from Make in India week in Mumbai.. Once again hat's off to navy for their indigenization vision! :)

http://www.rediff.com/news/special/with ... 160222.htm

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby raghava » 23 Feb 2016 12:32

KBDagha wrote:Some good pics from Make in India week in Mumbai.. Once again hat's off to navy for their indigenization vision! :)

http://www.rediff.com/news/special/with ... 160222.htm


Take a look at the P15B Poster in the above link. It mentions 4 X Brahmos Surface to Surface Vertical Launcher. I hope to God its not a typo

If its true, then its lungi dance time ! 32 cruise missiles + 48 LRSAM !!!!

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby Aditya G » 23 Feb 2016 12:50

32 lr-sam.

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby John » 23 Feb 2016 17:12

Each brahmos launcher consists of 8 vls so it would come to 32. Then again it could be a mistake. Also notice it looks like long range search radar is not yet finalised for Vishak and still some uncertainty on main gun between Oto SR or Oto 127 mm.

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby Sid » 23 Feb 2016 18:30

Biggest catch is in following chart.

1. LR-SAM will be ultimately fully built by BEL (indigenization under progress), as well as MF-STAR. Expect some land based varients as well.

2. 127mm SRGM under development.

Image

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby Khalsa » 23 Feb 2016 23:59

^^

This post above swells my heart with pride.
Our oldest force , our fairest force, our wise force has certainly outdone the rest.

Samundar Kee Haseen Lehron Ke Kabil Hukmaran Hain Hum !!

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby member_23370 » 24 Feb 2016 00:06

7300 tonne standard displacement is not bad, I guess the fully loaded would be > 7500 tonne.

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby Prem » 24 Feb 2016 02:23

Confusing: Which sub is this? UK 's or
Image

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby member_23370 » 24 Feb 2016 02:29

Looks like a oscar class sub from Russia.

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby tsarkar » 26 Feb 2016 15:30

vina wrote:
Singha wrote:1) ship is moving head on to these 100 foot waves (brown pants for me) .... is it safe for cargo ships or warships to move at an angle also, or its always head on or tail on for such sea states?
100 ft waves are very rare. For commercial shipping, WNA (Winter North Atlantic) is the ginger weather with significant wave heights upto 30m (UK, Iceland, Greenland, Nova Scotia gap). Yes, ships operate in those weathers, with a loading line designated for that. Broaching/Quartering seas are okay for today's large cargo ships and shouldn't be too much of a bother (size matters) . In a storm, you will always turn into the waves. Following seas are among the most dangerous in heavy weather, with.
Yes, head to wind is the safest option in a storm or heavy weather.

vina wrote:
Singha wrote:2) if due to freak conditions the distance between successive peaks is less than ships length , is there a danger both ends could float up and the trough below the middle could break or crack the ships back? or are ships designed for such bending loads ? I read that CVNs sailing like this flex upto 3 feet up and down in the middle....
No way. The ships are always built to a registrar's (ABS, LLoyds, Bureau Veritas ) guidelines and certified or it will not be insured. Those guidelines cater to all the kinds of conditions you talk about in the code.
Ships do flex, including in other conditions as well. However, designing to standards takes care of safety

vina wrote:
Singha wrote:can smaller corvettes, FFGs tackle such sea states and still operate?
Of course yes, and not just militray, even fishing boats and trawlers. They take a big beating and undergo far more violent motions than a large cargo ship of course.
They can safely operate up to sea states for which they’re designed for. At higher sea states, smaller boats can broach or get swamped.

vina wrote:
Singha wrote:4) does such sea and rain conditions degrade the radars, ASMs, decoys(aerosol clouds/chaff) and SAMs?
Radars No. Rest I dont know.

Radar – Clutter increases
ASMs - Seeker will face more clutter. Barometric or Radar Altimeter will find it tough maintaining height.
Chaff – will be quickly dispersed
Aerosol Cloud – will be quickly washed down and dispersed
SAMs – CLOS missiles find it tough to acquire beam with rocking masts and superstructure where radar is mounted. The guidance radar will face more clutter.

Operations too is certified up to certain sea states.

vina wrote:
Singha wrote:I read in alistair mclean novels of rescues being helped by ships dumping diesel layer into the area to 'calm the waves' - is that legit?
No way. Waves are due to wind action (given a large enough "fetch", ), putting diesel on surface does nothing to waves. Yeah, the only thing it might do is to lighten a ship.


Actually, it’s an old and well know technique to reduce waves by dispensing oil. The general understanding is that the surface tension of oil film on water prevents wind energy transferring into water, reducing waves.[Disclaimer – actual physics is more complex than my short answer here]

Everyone knows how Benjamin Franklin discovered lightning is electricity. Very few know how Benjamin Franklin stilled the waves by pouring oil on water. Please read up about his interesting experiment.

Rest later…

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby member_28108 » 26 Feb 2016 15:45

^ Any image of Vikant on google earth will be at least 6 months old.

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby Singha » 26 Feb 2016 16:40

some pretty heavy seas here head on ... makes the 10,000t ddg51 look smallish
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zvzld04Q5XI

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby sohamn » 26 Feb 2016 23:56

Singha wrote:some pretty heavy seas here head on ... makes the 10,000t ddg51 look smallish
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zvzld04Q5XI



Amazing to see how stable the 100K ton carrier is even in rough seas. Do carriers have fin stabilizers to counteract heavy waves?

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby Karthik S » 27 Feb 2016 21:39

http://www.firstpost.com/business/budge ... 46122.html

Budget 2016: One thing finance minister should keep in mind — Indian Navy deserves more


BTW, hope this year we increase defense budget to atleast 2% of our GDP.

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby Philip » 28 Feb 2016 14:21

Media reports today.Japan "cool" towards providing India with amphibs!

This is an astonishing about turn for Indo-Japanese defence cooperation which looked like taking off with the sale of these LR amphibs which the IN require. Informed sources say that this may be linked with Japan's ongoing battle to win the massive order for 12 advanced Soryu subs for OZ. The sweetener is that Japan will sell the same amphibs to OZ and deny them to India,which would've otherwise have had extra ASW/amphib capability vis-à-vis OZ,which is also acquiring P-8 LRMP Poseidons.

France similarly ,in order to win the deal,which is now approaching $25B+,has openly said that it would never give India the advanced sub tech that it was willing to give OZ!Despite OZ's protestations of a new relationship with India,it is deeply jealous of India's mil power and N-capability. The US is urging it behind the scenes to buy the Soryus so that it can cement an anti-China Asia-Pacific military "Axis" ,a new Asian "triad",comprising of itself and its closest mil alliances,Japan and OZ. Other Asian nations in a secondary orbit are SoKo,SPore and the Phillipines,with the hope that India and Vietnam will be roped in in later on.

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby Yagnasri » 28 Feb 2016 14:53

OZ is euopian outpost in Asia. It can never be part of the world where it really is.

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby John » 28 Feb 2016 18:21

Good i would not mind US-2 deal falling apart it is being pushed by Gov in effort to build ties with Japan and to promote Build in india. While badly ignoring all the risks associated with it, while navy would love to get some amphibs they have bigger priorities.

Considering the limited no of US-2 built to date, lack of Japanese exp in exporting def products, IN having to spend $$ money integrating avonics and weapons and of course setting up infrastructure to support and maintain this AC. All of this has disaster written all over it.

Let the Aussies procure it, they have already managed to build a destroyer that is one of most expensive DDG ever built. In spite of being based on design that was orginally built at not even 1/3rd the cost by spain.

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby Viv S » 28 Feb 2016 18:36

Philip wrote:Media reports today.Japan "cool" towards providing India with amphibs!

This is an astonishing about turn for Indo-Japanese defence cooperation which looked like taking off with the sale of these LR amphibs which the IN require. Informed sources say that this may be linked with Japan's ongoing battle to win the massive order for 12 advanced Soryu subs for OZ.

What 'informed sources'?

The sweetener is that Japan will sell the same amphibs to OZ and deny them to India,which would've otherwise have had extra ASW/amphib capability vis-à-vis OZ,which is also acquiring P-8 LRMP Poseidons.

Utter yet typical nonsense.

Firstly, all the Japanese spokesman said was the US-2 sale wasn't discussed at the recent Foreign Secretary meet. Nothing more, nothing less. And pending a bilateral agreement on the issue, a sale isn't possible. A sale which India has not formally requested yet - Asked whether there was any progress on the procurement of US-2 amphibious aircraft, Jaishankar said that no decision has been taken on that. - Dec 2015

Secondly, the other customer soliciting a US-2 sale is Indonesia not Australia. It has no relation to Soryu offer.

Thirdly, India was considering the type for SAR, transport and patrol missions. Not for ASW.

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby John » 28 Feb 2016 18:45

Viv there has been some developments on it no conformation yet from other media but here is latest on US 2 deal.


US-2, in a deal involving 12-18 aircraft, senior diplomatic sources from Tokyo said on Saturday that Japan had no immediate plans for “selling or delivering” the capacity-multiplier aircraft to India.



http://m.thehindu.com/news/national/jap ... 290054.ece

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby Viv S » 28 Feb 2016 19:51

John wrote:Viv there has been some developments on it no conformation yet from other media but here is latest on US 2 deal.


US-2, in a deal involving 12-18 aircraft, senior diplomatic sources from Tokyo said on Saturday that Japan had no immediate plans for “selling or delivering” the capacity-multiplier aircraft to India.



http://m.thehindu.com/news/national/jap ... 290054.ece


John, I read that article before typing up my post. The Japanese have no immediate plans to sell the aircraft because we have no immediate plans to buy it ("no decision has been taken" - S. Jaishankar). If and when we formulate and communicate a formal plan, they'll reciprocate.

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby John » 28 Feb 2016 20:03

Yes the article is open to interpretation since it is not too clear but there has some frustration that japanese have turned lukewarm towards US 2 deal. Let's wait for confirmation from open sources, as for why that is open to speculation.

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby Suresh S » 28 Feb 2016 20:11

OZ is euopian outpost in Asia. It can never be part of the world where it really is.

A thinking statement. Agree totally.

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby member_23370 » 28 Feb 2016 20:28

IN never wanted the US-2, it was pushed by GoI. IN needs more ASW aircrafts (LRMP & MRMP) not useless amphibs.

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby shiv » 28 Feb 2016 20:41

Whatever the inside information we may have about Japan, it has not prevented the Japanese from taking out full page ads referring to 'Rising power" India showing the US-2. One news items means nothing. And it only says "delays" and does not name the source.

The US 2 is the best amphibian aircraft in the world and India could definitely use it for communication with our hundreds of Islands and for SAR. I predict that the US-2 will definitely be sold by them and bought by us. It is a matter of time that's all.

Right now military transports are being used to fly civilians and supplies to major Islands. This need not continue. The video below talks of what the Southern Air Command is doing in terms of keeping those far flung territories connected with the mainland. Those island territories are ours and we have people living on them and no point considering them like "Not a blade of grass grows Aksai chin"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtWakUsfCPk

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby kit » 28 Feb 2016 23:45

Didnt Parrikar say it doesnt make economic sense to build the US 2 s in India ? .. building up ancilliary industries for a few dozen planes at most will be prohibitively costly . Thats why commercial aircraft manufacture is one that can really take off in India with its huge market ..OT anyway

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby John » 29 Feb 2016 00:18

shiv wrote:The US 2 is the best amphibian aircraft in the world and India could definitely use it for communication with our hundreds of Islands and for SAR. I predict that the US-2 will definitely be sold by them and bought by us. It is a matter of time that's all.

it s not question of whether US 2 is best amphibian aircraft out there or not. But whether it is worth spending that much money when there is other pressing needs to be addressed and large amount of risk associated with this project which i listed above. I would not mind buying them off the shelf but setting up a production line will only serve to make the cost and project even more riskier.

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby Philip » 29 Feb 2016 11:59

The biggest deal in the global defence market today is the OZ sub deal.OZ analysts estimate that the total cost could rise as high as $100B! France ,Germany and Japan are trying everything to get their hands on the deal. The Germans seem to be running last becos of some inherent design limitations of their subs.France has offered a conventional AIP design of an SSN design and the Japanese their large 4000t Soryus,which the US want them to have. It has been no secret for decades that OZ's greatest envy esp. in naval matters has been India and the IN.When INS Delhi first ventured into the A&N islands,an OZ P-3 Orion overflew it and was warned that it would be shot down if repeated. France has openly said that it would NOT provide India with advanced sub tech (we are building its Scorpenes),in order to clinch the deal. Some analysts reckon that it is in pole position right now as the US though wanting OZ to buy the Soryu,is facing serious political resistance for such an intimate relationship that would exists between Japan and OZ if the Japanese win. Japan's WW2 imperialism hasn't been forgotten in many Asian countries which China loves to remind everyone.Japan's reluctance to sell/deliver US-2s amphibs to us is not simply an issue of cost,they have to match/better the French. The OZ stakes are far higher than any defence deal with India.

Moreover,as I posted a long time ago,the US-2s are very expensive,far more than the equiv Russian Berievs and for the cost of one US-2 is around 150M a pop.Compare that with the once agreed upon (same) cost of the entire Backfire prod line for China.just $1.5B. IN acquisition/lease of a dozen Backfires would be cheaper and even more potent than any US-2 amphibs,which by the way do not possess any ASSW capability at all!

PS:Though we need amphibs ostensibly for SAR,cheaper and more capable (ASW) ones are available.In addition,DO-228 amphib variants are also available,which can be made in India without any straina s we are already building DO-228s. The money saved on ultra-expensive US-2s could also be used for acquiring more P-8 Poseidons,which is an IN requirement.

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby Singha » 29 Feb 2016 12:41

sohamn wrote:
Singha wrote:some pretty heavy seas here head on ... makes the 10,000t ddg51 look smallish
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zvzld04Q5XI



Amazing to see how stable the 100K ton carrier is even in rough seas. Do carriers have fin stabilizers to counteract heavy waves?


the nimitz class do not. being 70m wide and 330m long it will span multiple waves crest to crest so maybe it balances out somehow.

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby hnair » 29 Feb 2016 14:37

or maybe the waves shown above are from the wake of some other CVN in the front of the Stennis, at speed. The rest of the seas does not seem to have white-caps (could be wrong, if the swells are initiated by a distant storm) till horizon. I remember reading about wake surfers in Misssissippi from large container ships

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby Viv S » 29 Feb 2016 17:16

Philip wrote:The biggest deal in the global defence market today is the OZ sub deal.OZ analysts estimate that the total cost could rise as high as $100B!
.
.

Repeating yourself will not change the reality of the matter i.e all this has nothing at all to do with the proposed US-2 sale to India.

Moreover,as I posted a long time ago,the US-2s are very expensive,far more than the equiv Russian Berievs and for the cost of one US-2 is around 150M a pop.Compare that with the once agreed upon (same) cost of the entire Backfire prod line for China.just $1.5B. IN acquisition/lease of a dozen Backfires would be cheaper and even more potent than any US-2 amphibs,which by the way do not possess any ASSW capability at all!

Hell..why not compare it to a Bajaj's motorcycle production line? What does the Backfire have to do with the US-2?!! (Never mind the fact that you're appending a figure for cost, to a story that was bogus to begin with.)

PS:Though we need amphibs ostensibly for SAR,cheaper and more capable (ASW) ones are available.In addition,DO-228 amphib variants are also available,which can be made in India without any straina s we are already building DO-228s. The money saved on ultra-expensive US-2s could also be used for acquiring more P-8 Poseidons,which is an IN requirement.

The US-2 was assessed purely for its SAR/transport capabilities. No ASW variant exists. Nor does the MoD have interest in funding the development of such a variant, already having the P-8 operational.

The Dornier Seastar and Do-228 are different aircraft. The Do-228 has no amphibious variant, while the Seastar CD2's 1 metre wave height limit makes it nearly useless for SAR responsibilities within the IOR.

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby Philip » 01 Mar 2016 12:05

The IN's amphib requirements were tailor-made for acquiring the US-2 ,wave conditions for take-off.There are sev. other equally good SAR amphibs much cheaper.The attempt was to draw the Indo-Jap security relationship closer.Japan has few goodies in her def. bag of tricks,apart from Soryu subs which we don not need as we operate N-subs and our building our own Scorpenes..

If you can't see the reality of the situ,where a potential $A100B deal is at stake with OZ,instead of a measly $1.5B deal with India,too bad. Japan wants that deal at any cost and is willing to ditch India,or make it so expensive that we drop the deal ourselves. Same result.That's the reality.

Furthermore,we need a variety of amphibs ,for ASW,SAR,commns,firefighting,etc.,not just a blinkered vision of US-2s.Beriev,Bombardier,Dornier,etc. have various designs which we could look at.The Dornier design would be easy for us to manufacture here.

The issue of Backfires is as to where the IN can put its scarce money first,into projects/systems that make a real diff. when facing off with China.Backfires make more sense than US-2s, a higher priority.In fact sub-rescue vessels are long overdue given the age of our sub fleet and the new N-subs and Scorpenes on the anvil.

PS:The allocation for defence in the budget is disappointing.There is going to be scarce extra money for big tkt items,with the IAF and Rafales hogging the show.

PPS:Just for the record .Why should we then build extra Scorpenes which will be inferior to the subs being offered to Oz?
http://www.wsj.com/articles/french-subm ... 1447756099
French Submarine Maker Surfaces New Offer to Woo Australia
Nov. 17, 2015
ADELAIDE, Australia—The French contender in a $20 billion contest to build Australia’s next undersea fleet [b]said it won’t offer its cutting-edge design to other nations like India
bulking up their underwater capabilities, as bidding intensifies for one of the world’s most lucrative defense contracts.

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby member_29350 » 01 Mar 2016 15:20

For all the hassle Philip sir takes for backing Russkies, we'd have face it; that the only place where we can learn,upgrade and leap frog is with russian kit. The money or the tech is just not there for any meaningful TOT or even latest kit from any western country. And this is not to diss our own R&D.

That is, to catch up for decades of non investment in defence sectors, the russian kit are the only place where we are going to pick up stuff and then run with our own

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby Akshay Kapoor » 01 Mar 2016 15:54

sivaramn wrote:For all the hassle Philip sir takes for backing Russkies, we'd have face it; that the only place where we can learn,upgrade and leap frog is with russian kit. The money or the tech is just not there for any meaningful TOT or even latest kit from any western country. And this is not to diss our own R&D.

That is, to catch up for decades of non investment in defence sectors, the russian kit are the only place where we are going to pick up stuff and then run with our own


+ 1

The Rafale prices ,the Scorpene deal et all have been a revalation. Only solution seems to be to plug gaps with ruski maal and build up our own mil industrial complex on a war footing. For a start lets give a 1000 gun order to Bharat Forge for their 52 calibre gun that is ready... (I saw it this time ...would love to see it in tests). We can also ask BF to make the OFB Dhanush in much greater numbers. Baba Kalyani is just raring to go.

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby tsarkar » 01 Mar 2016 17:03

The US2 provides SAR to all military aviation in the Pacific flying where no helicopter has range to fly or speed to reach quickly.

So if you want Su-30MKI operations out of Car Nicobar or MiG-29K operations out of INS Baaz beyond Mi-17 range, you need something like US2 for SAR. The ejected pilots might not survive the time it takes for a ship to reach. Remember, these are the waters where MH77 went down.

http://www.airspacemag.com/military-avi ... 33/?no-ist

ON A COLD DAY IN JANUARY 1992, U.S. AIR FORCE CAPTAIN JOHN DOLAN ejected from his damaged F-16 at 25,000 feet and landed in the Pacific Ocean about 700 miles from the Japanese mainland. For the next four hours Dolan lay in a tiny rubber life raft that was tossed and continually swamped by high seas; he eventually suffered severe hypothermia. Finally, when he was barely conscious, Dolan saw a large, four-engine aircraft—a ShinMaywa US-1A bearing the Rising Sun of the Japanese military—slowly circling his raft.

Aboard the US-1A, a radar at the copilot’s station indicated that the waves below were just over nine feet high. US-1A Pilot Commander Hideki Kida put the 50-ton aircraft down in the churning ocean and taxied to within 50 yards of Dolan’s raft. Two rescue swimmers got to Dolan and hauled him aboard the US-1A, and in another four hours Dolan was at the military hospital at Yokota Air Base, Japan.


It can also fly men & material quickly to remote A&N Islands where An-32 & Do-228 cannot land, and helicopters lack range & payload. Presently, An-32 are used for paradropping reinforcements, but that disperses men & material, and also results in damages to equipment.

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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby Viv S » 01 Mar 2016 17:46

Philip wrote:The IN's amphib requirements were tailor-made for acquiring the US-2 ,wave conditions for take-off.There are sev. other equally good SAR amphibs much cheaper.

Go ahead name them.

The attempt was to draw the Indo-Jap security relationship closer.Japan has few goodies in her def. bag of tricks,apart from Soryu subs which we don not need as we operate N-subs and our building our own Scorpenes..

If you can't see the reality of the situ,where a potential $A100B deal is at stake with OZ,instead of a measly $1.5B deal with India,too bad. Japan wants that deal at any cost and is willing to ditch India,or make it so expensive that we drop the deal ourselves. Same result.That's the reality.

I repeat - what is the connection between a submarine sale to Australia and a US-2 sale to India?!!

Has India asked Japan not to sell Soryus to Australia? Or has Australia asked Japan not sell US-2s to India?

Go on. I'm all ears.

Furthermore,we need a variety of amphibs ,for ASW,SAR,commns,firefighting,etc.,not just a blinkered vision of US-2s.Beriev,Bombardier,Dornier,etc. have various designs which we could look at.The Dornier design would be easy for us to manufacture here.

Nonsense. We have MPAs capable of ASW and that is good enough for us. We have zero need to acquire amphibs for anti-sub ops. Nor is our Navy/Coast Guard involved in fire-fighting.

The Beriev isn't capable of STOL ops. And neither it, nor the Dornier, nor the Bombardier is capable of operating in rough waters. There are alternatives to the US-2 (albeit less capable), but they come in the form of medium and heavy lift rotorcraft; S-60 & Chinook.

The issue of Backfires is as to where the IN can put its scarce money first,into projects/systems that make a real diff. when facing off with China.Backfires make more sense than US-2s, a higher priority.In fact sub-rescue vessels are long overdue given the age of our sub fleet and the new N-subs and Scorpenes on the anvil.

Backfires are a recipe for creating aircraft carcasses over Tibet. I'm yet to see one that can go head-to-head against a PLAAF Flanker and survive the experience. As far as the PLAN is concerned, it'll be at least a decade before it can deploy a CBG to the IOR. The Su-30MKIs can handle anything else in the meantime. Unlike the Russians & Chinese we're not facing a 24 carrier US Navy.

There are indeed more pressing requirements for the country, the Tu-22M however is not one of them.

PPS:Just for the record .Why should we then build extra Scorpenes which will be inferior to the subs being offered to Oz?

How the hell is the US-2 proposal connected to that for follow-on Scorpenes?!! Mysterious ways, your minds works in..

kmkraoind
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Posts: 3908
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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby kmkraoind » 01 Mar 2016 22:57

Russian 'Storm' top candidate to be India's new aircraft carrier - report

However, according to the Izvestia newspaper, the Russian project is the favorite in the upcoming tender. Russia's Krylovsky State Research Center (KRSC) will be offering its new multipurpose heavy aircraft carrier design called Project 23000E Shtorm (Storm). The project was first revealed to the public in June at the Army-2015 show near Moscow, where a scale model of the ship was exhibited.
....
The Russian bid is favored by the Indians
partly because Moscow is willing to allow bigger technology transfers than the French and American contenders, Izvestia said.


When did it happened or its just an wishful thinking on Russian part?

Viv S
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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby Viv S » 01 Mar 2016 23:19

kmkraoind wrote:Russian 'Storm' top candidate to be India's new aircraft carrier - report

However, according to the Izvestia newspaper, the Russian project is the favorite in the upcoming tender. Russia's Krylovsky State Research Center (KRSC) will be offering its new multipurpose heavy aircraft carrier design called Project 23000E Shtorm (Storm). The project was first revealed to the public in June at the Army-2015 show near Moscow, where a scale model of the ship was exhibited.
....
The Russian bid is favored by the Indians
partly because Moscow is willing to allow bigger technology transfers than the French and American contenders, Izvestia said.


When did it happened or its just an wishful thinking on Russian part?


Moscow offering ToT to India on aircraft carrier construction! :shock:

The last aircraft carrier they built was over 25 years ago. For an LHD they went with the French Mistral instead of developing one in-house. But they really expect India to pay hard currency for this 'Storm' carrier design, a paper project?

As for it being 'favored by the Indians'.. its an RT report. Starts out with minimal credibility.

John
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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby John » 02 Mar 2016 04:04

Tu 22m3 are cold war relics and even the georgians manage to shoot down a Tu-22mr. Which was likely fitted with better electronic countermeasures than your standard model. What everyone want is its big brother the Blackjack. Even Su 34 is more desirable than this and is far far cheaper to maintain.

deejay
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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby deejay » 02 Mar 2016 10:33

kmkraoind wrote:Russian 'Storm' top candidate to be India's new aircraft carrier - report

However, according to the Izvestia newspaper, the Russian project is the favorite in the upcoming tender. Russia's Krylovsky State Research Center (KRSC) will be offering its new multipurpose heavy aircraft carrier design called Project 23000E Shtorm (Storm). The project was first revealed to the public in June at the Army-2015 show near Moscow, where a scale model of the ship was exhibited.
....
The Russian bid is favored by the Indians
partly because Moscow is willing to allow bigger technology transfers than the French and American contenders, Izvestia said.


When did it happened or its just an wishful thinking on Russian part?


An image of the 'Storm' aircraft carrier from RT
Image

Philip
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Re: Indian Naval News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Postby Philip » 02 Mar 2016 12:06

TU-22s are doing quite well in Syria at the moment.The major upgrades being done to them have made them ideal for LR strike and in the maritime sphere with their Mach 2 supersonic speed armed with LR supersonic missiles for land attack or anti-ship/carrier, make them vastly superior to much slower turboprops and subsonic aircraft with their payload limitations barring the TU-142 bears which were/are designed as bombers.They too have been busy in the MEast.

I'm not sure how the Russians will win the large CV tender unless nuclear reactors come with the offer.The US has clearly denied India N-reactor tech,so here is where the Russians score.We know that there has been considerable Ru input into the ATV reactor programme,and there could be much commonality. It is most likely that the next large CV for the In will have an N-reactor.We may still obtain EMA:S from the US,but only as a component.The naval strike aircraft aboard will also be cruciall.If the FGFA deal goes through,a naval variant may be offered,considering that the CV will enter service post 2025 at the earliest.

Thabks for the pic of the carrier.V. interesting dsign. However,right now the sub fleet must take top priority. We have to augment numbers of both N-subs and AIP subs. Here's looking at why the US wants OZ to buy Japanese Soryu subs.

12 OZ Soryus plus an equal number of Japanese subs ,both of which have special US input inside them make it easy for US subs to communicate data,etc. and coordinate combat doctrine/tactics, since they share common combat systems,weaponry,etc. The problem with the French subs is that the French are very independent and will not share their tech with the US or anyone else.They are trying v.hard to get the OZ deal becos of their French island possessions in the Pacific.Having OZ operating subs of their type will make it easier for them to operate in synch just as the US wants OZ as part of the anti-PLAN triad.

The SoKos and Indonesians are building.acquiring the same German U-boats,but these do not have compatability with the Soryus and cannot be integrated into a USN order of battle against China easily.Indonesia are buying SoKo built boats,but has yet to finish their infrastructure/base facilities and will experience a delay. Vietnam has acquired 6 Russian late model Kilos. So theoretically ranged against the PLAN's approx. 80 subs will be approx. 24 Soryu type AIP subs,plus an unknown number of USN N-subs all acting in concert. Operating independently defending their own interests will be another 15+ German U-boats of SoKo and 3 of Indonesia. Vietnam will have 6 Kilos as well. There was some talk of Indonesia also buying Kilos,no confirmation yet. THis is why China is wooing Cambodia and Thailand,wanting them to buy Chinese subs and defence eqpt. The US have thus far managed to keep the Thai military from going ahead with buying Chinese subs,but Cambodia is a diff. proposition.

In India's interests,it will be best if the OZ govt. buys the Japanese subs as an UW sub "triad" of Japan,OZ and the USN operating against the PLAN will keep the PLAN's sub assets mostly engaged in protecting their interests and greed in the ICS,and take a load off our back esp. with our much smaller sub force. The PLAN will however still be able to have at least 6 subs permanently operational in the IOR operating out of Gwadar keeping us at bay in an attempt to keep us from sending some of our sub assets into the ICS in concert with Vietnam.


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