Indian Navy News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

kit · Post by **kit** » 24 Jun 2016 14:58

brar_w wrote:The poseidon will be working with MQ9 Triton BAMS and possibly much smaller aircraft launched drones. General Atomics competed in that competition but eventually lost out to Northrop's offering. The Maritime guardian configuration is actually operated by the US Custom and border protection agency. Its a different capability to the MQ9 BAMS and comes in at a fraction of the cost. You could probably by 4-5 Guardian's for the cost of a single MQ-9, and for the sort certain missions its actually better since the MQ9 is designed for the higher end sensors, payload, altitude and situational awareness. Integrating with the P-8I will be quite easy.

https://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/files ... an_b_6.pdf

wonder how much of a capability difference it will make since the IN operates the searcher and Heron UAVs as well !! .. unless it is the armed version

Cain Marko · Post by **Cain Marko** » 24 Jun 2016 15:07

John wrote:Which ones? Saar 6 are based on K130 class. One of the req is 30+ knot speed which would require gas turbines I don't recall such a design from Germans. I know there are couple Buyan based versions that offer that.

Saar 72 is what I was thinking of..

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 24 Jun 2016 15:10

kit wrote:
brar_w wrote:The poseidon will be working with MQ9 Triton BAMS and possibly much smaller aircraft launched drones. General Atomics competed in that competition but eventually lost out to Northrop's offering. The Maritime guardian configuration is actually operated by the US Custom and border protection agency. Its a different capability to the MQ9 BAMS and comes in at a fraction of the cost. You could probably by 4-5 Guardian's for the cost of a single MQ-9, and for the sort certain missions its actually better since the MQ9 is designed for the higher end sensors, payload, altitude and situational awareness. Integrating with the P-8I will be quite easy.

https://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/files ... an_b_6.pdf

wonder how much of a capability difference it will make since the IN operates the searcher and Heron UAVs as well !! .. unless it is the armed version

From what I gather the Predator B has a larger payload (around 50% compared to the TP) but that may not be the case for all variants, has a higher ceiling (50,000 ft) but a shorter endurance (only 27 hours

). It also has two potential maritime radar for integration in addition to the EO/IR sensor upfront. Another THALES AESA was on offer iirc. Not sure how these two compare to the EL/M-2022U but I think altitude would probably help. Other than that these two variants would probably be comparable with P-8I integration probably being somethings hat the Guardian may bring to the table. I don't understand the need to buy both the TP and the Guardian other than perhaps a different mission that requires higher altitudes or larger payloads.

http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/ ... predator-b

Edit: There are two more radar options available in the form of the Selex AESA, that was integrated and demonstrated on the predator B a few years ago and GAs own Lynx multi mode wide area maritime search :

A consortium made-up of General Atomics Aeronautical Systems (GA-ASI), Cobham Aviation Services and Selex Galileo has demonstrated the latter's Seaspray 7500E Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radar aboard a GA-ASI Predator-B unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV)…. As such, the Seaspray radar's wide area search, priority track, ground moving target indication and air-to-air modes were employed, with payload control and display being executed via GA-ASI's CLAW integrated sensor payload control and analysis software… IHS Jane's understands that a Predator-Seaspray demonstration is planned with the architecture being augmented by a core SkyISTAR application and Selex's Sage electronic support measures system.

Also, the re-winged Predator-B had flown with > than 40 hours of endurance and the UK selected this particular configuration for their Protector program.

AFA AIR WARFARE, WASHINGTON 25 February 2016 General Atomics Aeronautical Systems, Inc. (GA-ASI), a leading manufacturer of Remotely Piloted Aircraft (RPA) systems, radars, and electro-optic and related mission systems solutions, today announced the successful first flight of Predator® B/MQ-9 Reaper® Extended Range (ER) Long Wing, retrofitted with improved long-endurance wings with greater internal fuel capacity and additional hard points for carrying external stores. The flight occurred on February 18 at GA-ASIs Gray Butte Flight Test Facility in Palmdale, Calif., on a test aircraft. Predator B ERs new 79-foot wing span not only boosts the RPAs endurance and range, but also serves as proof-of-concept for the next-generation Predator B aircraft that will be designed for Type-Certification and airspace integration, said Linden Blue, CEO. The wing was designed to conform to STANAG 4671 [NATO Airworthiness Standard for RPA systems], and includes lightning and bird strike protection, non-destructive testing, and advanced composite and adhesive materials for extreme environments.

Developed on Internal Research and Development (IRAD) funds, the new wing span is 13-feet longer, increasing the aircrafts endurance from 27 hours to over 40 hours. Additional improvements include short-field takeoff and landing performance and spoilers on the wings which enable precision automatic landings. The wings also have provisions for leading-edge de-ice and integrated low- and high-band RF antennas. An earlier version of Predator B ER featuring two wing-mounted fuel tanks is currently operational with the U.S. Air Force asMQ-9 Reaper ER.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 24 Jun 2016 15:28

Three Indian Warships to Arrive in Russia's Far Eastern Vladivostok

http://sputniknews.com/military/2016062 ... ostok.html

MOSCOW (Sputnik) — Maiborodov said that India's Sahyadri frigate, Shakti and Kirch warships were expected to arrive in Vladivostok where the Indian guests are expected to hold a meeting with the Russian Pacific Fleet command and local authorities.

"On June 27, 2016, Indian Navy ships to arrive to Vladivostok with an unofficial visit… The main goal of the visit is to continue the cooperation between the countries' navy," the district's spokesman Igor Maiborodov said.

The visit will last for four days, he noted.

arun · Post by **arun** » 25 Jun 2016 19:25

A 6 week old press release which I have not found here on BRF so here goes ……………

P-17A frigates will be equipped with MAN 12V28/33D STC engines. MAN announces that orders for 14 engines (2 per ship) have been received. :

MAN Engines for Indian Navy Stealth Frigates : MAN Diesel & Turbo receives order for 14 engines for Indian Navy

Kakkaji · Post by **Kakkaji** » 26 Jun 2016 06:11

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1160626/jsp/frontpage/story_93358.jsp#.V28l8bhTTIU

Defence ministry sources said the Defence Acquisitions Council, chaired by Manohar Parrikar, "considered" 19 proposals and new schemes worth Rs 28,000 crore today.

The navy has been asked to start the process of acquiring six "next generation" missile vessels. The total acquisition is estimated to cost Rs 13,600 crore.

This too is at least three years from acquisition. An Indian shipyard will be selected for the vessels. The yard may have an arrangement with a foreign firm to make the warships.

arun · Post by **arun** » 26 Jun 2016 11:50

Austin wrote:The cancellation of Black Shark Torpedo has implication even if SSBN program , the first SSBN have Russian torpedo the next 3 were suppose to also get integrated with Black Shark , Now the option is French F-21 or Germany's 'SeaHake'

Contract for 98 Black Shark torpedoes scrapped, Indian nuclear submarine programme further delayed

Meanwhile Atlas Elektronik which has its finger in the F21 torpedo besides off course the DM2A4 Sea Hake / Seehecht is also in a spot of bother on the bribery front:

German prosecutors search Thyssen offices in Atlas bribery probe

Appears the above is a fall out of allegations by financial basket-case Greece:

German defence group Rheinmetall, STN and Atlas Elektronik are also alleged to have paid a total of 62 million euros in bribes for submarine contracts, Bild said.

See here:

Greece wants 100 million euros in damages from German defence firms

John · Post by **John** » 27 Jun 2016 22:23

arun wrote:A 6 week old press release which I have not found here on BRF so here goes ……………

P-17A frigates will be equipped with MAN 12V28/33D STC engines. MAN announces that orders for 14 engines (2 per ship) have been received. :

MAN Engines for Indian Navy Stealth Frigates : MAN Diesel & Turbo receives order for 14 engines for Indian Navy

Slightly more powerful than the Pielstick engines in Shivalik which indicates a vessel that is similar or larger in displacement than P-17s?

member_23370 · Post by **member_23370** » 27 Jun 2016 22:47

Has the construction of P-17a even started? Right now the P-15B's are ahead in construction. Any news on INS Chennai commissioning? It should be in a couple of months.

Viv S · Post by **Viv S** » 28 Jun 2016 06:06

X-posting from UAV thread.

The acquisition process has apparently been initiated. Its apparently through the FMS process which rules out local production but would enable lower costs. Hopefully the Avenger would be produced locally since we wouldn't be piggybacking off larger US orders in its case.

India Seeks Predator Drones from US

Vivek Raghuvanshi, Defense News

NEW DELHI - Within days of Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi's visit to Washington this month, and India's entry into Missile Technology Control Regime backed by President Barack Obama, New Delhi has sought to buy Predator drones from US-based General Atomics through the Foreign Military Sales program.

The letter of Request (LoR) for purchase of 22 of the unmanned aircraft for the Indian Navy was sent to US June 17, an official of the Indian Ministry of Defense (MoD) said.

The Indian Navy wants to use the Predator drone, which can fly at an altitude of 50,000 feet, for maritime surveillance over the Indian Ocean, said an Indian Navy official.

India has bought weapons worth $10 billion in the last ten years through the FMS route, but New Delhi wants to shift this defense relationship from simply purchasing weapons to co-developing and co-producing them.

To that end, India and the United States set up the Defense Trade and Technology Initiative (DTTI), a forum for identifying joint projects that could meet the “Make in India” requirements spelled out by the Indian government.

Two major programs being considered in that context include transfer of technology for the proposed Indian aircraft carrier and sharing of engine technology.
There are positive signs of an early conclusion on transfer of technology for the carrier, the MoD official said.

"The first phase of carrier cooperation has begun during Prime Minister Modi's visit to Washington,” said the official, requesting anonymity to discuss the program. “The information exchange agreement that was concluded will allow now for consulting contracts relating to carrier design. So, carrier cooperation is well on its way. I am hopeful that the project on jet engine technology cooperation will be concluded this summer.”

That would permit GE to both assemble the F414 engine in India while collaborating with Indian research and development institutions to design the upgraded variant with greater thrust for both the US Navy and the Indian Air Force," says Ashley Tellis, a senior associate at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace.

An official in the Ministry of External Affairs said defense programs meeting the Make in India mandate could take off sooner when based on co-development and information sharing.

In the Make in India track, India is currently considering the acquisition of a twin-engine fighter aircraft which will be in addition to the 36 Rafale fighters proposed to be bought from France.

Defense contractors, including Boeing and Lockheed Martin from the United States and Saab of Sweden, are aggressively pitching to co-produce a twin-engine fighter aircraft in the Make in India category.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 28 Jun 2016 09:58

Tata Advanced Systems tying up with Bell Helicopter to compete for $2-billion naval chopper contract

JTull · Post by **JTull** » 28 Jun 2016 12:31

22 Predators will reduce our MRMR requirement significantly.

Also, IN should get a sqn of Su-30MKI equipped with Brahmos capable of maritime targeting. In combination with above surveillance capabilities, this will make large parts of Indian Ocean and all of Arabian Sea and Bay of Bengal out of reach of any enemy surface vessels. A flight of these in A&N could have a powerful impact on China's sea trade with Mid-East and Africa.

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 28 Jun 2016 18:15

Varunastra induction tomorrow
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CmCdECXUkAADOjL.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CmCd-o_UkAEVred.jpg

Kakkaji · Post by **Kakkaji** » 28 Jun 2016 21:24

India likely to go for govt-to-govt German deal for torpedos

NEW DELHI: India is likely to go in for a government-to-government deal with Germany for heavyweight torpedos after having scrapped plans to purchase them from a subsidiary of chopper scam-tainted Italian defence conglomerate Finmeccanica.

The two torpedos that were of interest were F21 from France and SeaHake from Germany's Atlas Elektronik.

Sources said the French wrote back saying they are willing to provide F21 but only for French submarines or those built with French help.

This meant that in case the French don't make the cut in future submarine contracts with India, the government will have to look for options.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 28 Jun 2016 22:26

Onboard Indian Current Most Powerful Submarine INS Sindhukriti Full Documentary!

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 28 Jun 2016 23:12

abhishek_sharma wrote:Tata Advanced Systems tying up with Bell Helicopter to compete for $2-billion naval chopper contract

From Wiki, Bell 429 specs:

Crew: 1
Capacity: Upto 7 passengers
Empty weight: 1,925 kg (4,245 lb)
Useful load: 2,755 lb (1,250 kg)
Max. takeoff weight: 3,175 kg (7,000 lb)
Powerplant: 2 × Pratt & Whitney Canada PW207D1 turboshaft, 625 shp (466 kW); 730 shp (545 kW) takeoff power[6] each
Cabin volume: 204 ft³ (5.8 m³)

HAL LUH specs:

Crew: 2
Capacity: up to 6 passengers
Empty weight: 1,675 kg (3,693 lb)
Max takeoff weight: 2,700 kg (5,952 lb)
Powerplant: 1 × HAL/Turbomeca Shakti 1U turboshaft engine, 1,272 kW (1,706 hp)

seems like the HAL LUH would have been a very good contender for this role, unless the IN felt that being a single engine helicopter made it a riskier option.. probably not, since the Chetak that is to be replaced is itself a single engine helicopter and the LUH seems like an obvious replacement for it when one looks at the specs of the Chetak

Empty weight: 1,143 kg (2,520 lb)
Gross weight: 2,200 kg (4,850 lb)
Powerplant: 1 × Turbomeca Artouste IIIB turboshaft, 649 kW (870 shp) derated to 425 kW (570 hp)

the delays in the LUH development program and the urgency in replacing the Chetak mean that the the Naval Utility Helicopter role will go to either the Panther or the Bell 429. Another lost opportunity for HAL.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 29 Jun 2016 00:00

uddu wrote:Varunastra induction tomorrow
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CmCdECXUkAADOjL.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CmCd-o_UkAEVred.jpg

Uddu, any link? This will be a huge step forward for our domestic capabilities, even if LSP and move to an advanced variant.

Nick_S · Post by **Nick_S** » 15 Aug 2016 16:27

India to acquire 3 Admiral Grigorivich class frigates from Russia
http://www.janes.com/article/62776/indi ... rom-Russia

Mig pics :

From BA - Key Pub

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 15 Aug 2016 16:33

Saw various articles mentioning India to acquire 4 Tu-22M3s as well.

ranjan.rao · Post by **ranjan.rao** » 15 Aug 2016 17:17

^^yes i did too...but werent most of those articles from TASS or sputnik...also leaving the heading aside, all of them talked about "India would like to acquire" rather than "India would acquire". When it comes to our acquisitions it's difficult to separate the smoke from fire..

kit · Post by **kit** » 15 Aug 2016 17:24

News from MOD .. India not interested in the Predators !!

.. maybe India was trying for an Avenger type ?

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 15 Aug 2016 17:33

May be Rustam 2 is developing well. It was supposed to be tested 2 weeks back, not sure if the test was carried out.

Chinmay · Post by **Chinmay** » 15 Aug 2016 18:10

kit wrote:News from MOD .. India not interested in the Predators !! .. maybe India was trying for an Avenger type ?

Where did you hear that? I did not read any news about the MoD withdrawing the LoR for the Guardians. Do you have a link?

kit · Post by **kit** » 15 Aug 2016 23:28

http://idrw.org/india-has-no-immediate- ... s-from-us/

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 16 Aug 2016 01:47

kit wrote:http://idrw.org/india-has-no-immediate- ... s-from-us/

IDRW has sourced it from Sputnik.

kit · Post by **kit** » 16 Aug 2016 11:13

wonder if DM said it .. then it could be true

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 16 Aug 2016 11:23

But this article says something different

http://www.financialexpress.com/india-n ... uy/348152/

Defence minister Manohar Parrikar is expected to visit Washington DC at the end of this month. Key topics, including the sale of ‘Predator Guardian’ for the Indian Navy and inking of the Logistics Exchange Memorandum of Agreement (LEMOA), will be on the table for discussions.

Highly-placed sources told FE that during the visit, “various issues will be discussed, including strengthening of operational ties, the recently concluded logistics agreement and follow-up on foundational agreements like CISMOA (Communication Interoperability and Security Memorandum Agreement), and BECA (Basic Exchange and Cooperation Agreement), ‘Make in India’ initiatives, and acquisition of key critical technologies”.
...

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 16 Aug 2016 18:54

Any updates on INS Chennai induction? IIRC, Kolkata and Kochi were inducted around this time.

Bheeshma · Post by **Bheeshma** » 16 Aug 2016 22:14

Also isn't it time to finalize the P-17a frigates and start cutting steel.

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 21 Aug 2016 02:51

^^ It'll start next year. Presently the hulls of the remaining 15B are in fabrication. MDL has finite number of yards.

There was a proposal for Pipavav to build the hulls and MDL to fit out engines and systems that would have speeded up construction but the Union killed it.

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 21 Aug 2016 06:09

tsarkar wrote:^^ It'll start next year. Presently the hulls of the remaining 15B are in fabrication. MDL has finite number of yards.

There was a proposal for Pipavav to build the hulls and MDL to fit out engines and systems that would have speeded up construction but the Union killed it.

That's what unions are for. Import rather than be flexible domestically. We have met the enemy and..,

pkudva · Post by **pkudva** » 21 Aug 2016 19:23

INS Chenni is under Sea Trails hopefully should be commissioned soon. Worry shud be of P 28 whose induction is also pending along with the HAT of 2nd sub of Scorpene Class. All of them are running behind schedule. Yards should be penalized for late delivery & commissioning.

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 21 Aug 2016 19:29

Apart from upgrading 3 Kilo, L&T Kattupalli is free. Not sure if any new ship construction order is given. Being a reliable private player, the navy should give orders to it especially 3rd and 4th ships of 15B.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 21 Aug 2016 22:31

are we really getting the Adm Grig. from russia ?

sounds strange if true.

sorry, havent kept track of recent acquisitions.

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 21 Aug 2016 22:44

None of Indian channels/reports have confirmed it.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 22 Aug 2016 15:11

Nuclear Aircraft Carrier versus Nuclear Submarines By Lt. General P.C. Katoch (Retd.) Former Director General of Information Systems, Indian Army

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 23 Aug 2016 08:47

Rahul M wrote:are we really getting the Adm Grig. from russia ? sounds strange if true.

sorry, havent kept track of recent acquisitions.

When indian yards are starved of orders.

vaibhav.n · Post by **vaibhav.n** » 23 Aug 2016 23:50

French submarine builder in massive leak scandal

The French company that won the bid to design Australia’s new $50 billion submarine fleet has suffered a massive leak of secret documents, raising fears about the future security of top-secret data on the navy’s future fleet.

The stunning leak, which runs to 22,400 pages and has been seen by The Australian, details the entire secret combat capability of the six Scorpene-class submarines that French shipbuilder DCNS has designed for the Indian Navy.

A variant of the same French-designed Scorpene is also used by the navies of Malaysia, Chile and, from 2018, Brazil, so news of the Edward Snowden-sized leak — revealed today — will trigger alarm at the highest level in these countries. Marked “Restricted Scorpene India”, the DCNS documents detail the most sensitive combat capabilities of India’s new $US3 bn ($3.9bn) submarine fleet and would provide an intelligence bonanza if obtained by India’s strategic rivals, such as Pakistan or China.

The leak will spark grave concern in Australia and especially in the US where senior navy officials have privately expressed fears about the security of top-secret data entrusted to France.

In April DCNS, which is two-thirds owned by the French government, won the hotly contested bid over Germany and Japan to design 12 new submarines for Australia. Its proposed submarine for Australia — the yet-to-be-built Shortfin Barracuda — was chosen ahead of its rivals because it was considered to be the quietest in the water, making it perfectly suited to intelligence-gathering operations against China and others in the region.

Any stealth advantage for the navy’s new submarines would be gravely compromised if data on its planned combat and performance capabilities was leaked in the same manner as the data from the Scorpene. The leaked DCNS data details the secret stealth capabilities of the six new Indian submarines, including what frequencies they gather intelligence at, what levels of noise they make at various speeds and their diving depths, range and endurance — all sensitive information that is highly classified. The data tells the submarine crew where on the boat they can speak safely to avoid detection by the enemy. It also discloses magnetic, electromagnetic and infra-red data as well as the specifications of the submarine’s torpedo launch system and the combat system.

It details the speed and conditions needed for using the periscope, the noise specifications of the propeller and the radiated noise levels that occur when the submarine surfaces.

The data seen by The Australian includes 4457 pages on the submarine’s underwater sensors, 4209 pages on its above-water sensors, 4301 pages on its combat management system, 493 pages on its torpedo launch system and specifications, 6841 pages on the sub’s communications system and 2138 on its navigation systems.

The Australian has chosen to redact sensitive information from the documents.

Sea trials for the first of India’s six Scorpene submarines began in May. The project is running four years behind schedule.

The Indian Navy has boasted that its Scorpene submarines have superior stealth features, which give them a major advantage against other submarines.

The US will be alarmed by the leak of the DCNS data because Australia hopes to install an American combat system — with the latest US stealth technology — in the French Shortfin Barracuda.

If Washington does not feel confident that its “crown jewels’’ of stealth technology can be protected, it may decline to give Australia its state-of-the-art combat system.

DCNS yesterday sought to reassure Australians that the leak of the data on the Indian Scorpene submarine would not happen with its proposed submarine for Australia. The company also implied — but did not say directly — that the leak might have occurred at India’s end, rather than from France. “Uncontrolled technical data is not possible in the Australian arrangements,” the company said. “Multiple and independent controls exist within DCNS to prevent unauthorised access to data and all data movements are encrypted and recorded. In the case of India, where a DCNS design is built by a local company, DCNS is the provider and not the controller of technical data.

“In the case of Australia, and unlike India, DCNS is both the provider and in-country controller of technical data for the full chain of transmission and usage over the life of the submarines.”

However, The Australian has been told that the data on the Scorpene was written in France for India in 2011 and is suspected of being removed from France in that same year by a former French Navy officer who was at that time a DCNS subcontractor.

The data is then believed to have been taken to a company in Southeast Asia, possibly to assist in a commercial venture for a regional navy.

It was subsequently passed by a third party to a second company in the region before being sent on a data disk by regular mail to a company in Australia. It is unclear how widely the data has been shared in Asia or whether it has been obtained by foreign intelligence agencies.

The data seen by The Australian also includes separate confidential DCNS files on plans to sell French frigates to Chile and the French sale of the Mistral-class amphibious assault ship carrier to Russia. These DCNS projects have no link to India, which adds weight to the probability that the data files were removed from DCNS in France.

DCNS Australia this month signed a deed of agreement with the Defence Department, paving the way for talks over the contract which will guide the design phase of the new submarines. The government plans to build 12 submarines in Adelaide to replace the six-boat Collins-class fleet from the early 2030s. The Shortfin Barracuda will be a slightly shorter, conventionally powered version of France’s new fleet of Barracuda-class nuclear submarines.

Restricted data

The secret information the leaked documents reveal:

• The stealth capabilities of the six new Indian Scorpene submarines

• The frequencies at which the subs gather intelligence

• The levels of noise the subs make at various speeds

• Diving depths, range and endurance

• Magnetic, electromagnetic and infra-red data

• Specifications of the submarine’s torpedo launch system and the combat system

• Speed and conditions needed for using the periscope

• Propeller’s noise specifications

• Radiated noise levels when the submarine surfaces

The French should be made to pay for this massive leak

g.sarkar · Post by **g.sarkar** » 24 Aug 2016 00:06

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/indi ... 47153.html
Exclusive: Handicapped by red tape, Indian Navy to fit old weapons on brand new submarine
Indian Navy will soon induct Kalvari, a brand new French-designed Scorpene submarine, having old German SUT torpedos. The first Scorpene submarine, however, was supposed to use Blackshark Heavy Weight Torpedos but the Defense Ministry refused at the last moment.
....
The Indian Navy (IN), after much delay, is inching towards inducting its first diesel-electric submarine in nearly two decades.
However, the stand of the Ministry of Defence to not purchase 98 'Blackshark' Heavy Weight Torpedo (HWT), which was the agreed-upon choice earlier, has been a nasty blow to the navy. This will lead to a scenario where a brand new submarine will join the fleet (likely by the end of the year) without its deadliest, primary weapon - the torpedo. This, senior sources have confirmed, has left the IN with no option but to arm its upcoming French-designed Scorpene submarine with old German SUT torpedos. These torpedos are in use on the older German-designed HDW submarines called 'Shishumar' class of submarines.....
Gautam

JayS · Post by **JayS** » 24 Aug 2016 00:45

From Twitter:
Indian Scorpion Submarine detailed plans leaked from France.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nationa ... a4d42db39e

The stunning leak, which runs to 22,400 pages and has been seen by The Australian, details the entire secret combat capability of the six Scorpene-class submarines that French shipbuilder DCNS has designed for the Indian Navy.

A variant of the same French-designed Scorpene is also used by the navies of Malaysia, Chile and, from 2018, Brazil, so news of the Edward Snowden-sized leak — revealed today — will trigger alarm at the highest level in these countries. Marked “Restricted Scorpene India”, the DCNS documents detail the most sensitive combat capabilities of India’s new $US3 bn ($3.9bn) submarine fleet and would provide an intelligence bonanza if obtained by India’s strategic rivals, such as Pakistan or China.

The leak will spark grave concern in Australia and especially in the US where senior navy officials have privately expressed fears about the security of top-secret data entrusted to France.

In April DCNS, which is two-thirds owned by the French government, won the hotly contested bid over Germany and Japan to design 12 new submarines for Australia. Its proposed submarine for Australia — the yet-to-be-built Shortfin Barracuda — was chosen ahead of its rivals because it was considered to be the quietest in the water, making it perfectly suited to intelligence-gathering operations against China and others in the region.

Any stealth advantage for the navy’s new submarines would be gravely compromised if data on its planned combat and performance capabilities was leaked in the same manner as the data from the Scorpene. The leaked DCNS data details the secret stealth capabilities of the six new Indian submarines, including what frequencies they gather intelligence at, what levels of noise they make at various speeds and their diving depths, range and endurance — all sensitive information that is highly classified. The data tells the submarine crew where on the boat they can speak safely to avoid detection by the enemy. It also discloses magnetic, electromagnetic and infra-red data as well as the specifications of the submarine’s torpedo launch system and the combat system.

It details the speed and conditions needed for using the periscope, the noise specifications of the propeller and the radiated noise levels that occur when the submarine surfaces.

The data seen by The Australian includes 4457 pages on the submarine’s underwater sensors, 4209 pages on its above-water sensors, 4301 pages on its combat management system, 493 pages on its torpedo launch system and specifications, 6841 pages on the sub’s communications system and 2138 on its navigation systems.

The Australian has chosen to redact sensitive information from the documents.

Sea trials for the first of India’s six Scorpene submarines began in May. The project is running four years behind schedule.

The Indian Navy has boasted that its Scorpene submarines have superior stealth features, which give them a major advantage against other submarines.

The US will be alarmed by the leak of the DCNS data because Australia hopes to install an American combat system — with the latest US stealth technology — in the French Shortfin Barracuda.

If Washington does not feel confident that its “crown jewels’’ of stealth technology can be protected, it may decline to give Australia its state-of-the-art combat system.

DCNS yesterday sought to reassure Australians that the leak of the data on the Indian Scorpene submarine would not happen with its proposed submarine for Australia. The company also implied — but did not say directly — that the leak might have occurred at India’s end, rather than from France. “Uncontrolled technical data is not possible in the Australian arrangements,” the company said. “Multiple and independent controls exist within DCNS to prevent unauthorised access to data and all data movements are encrypted and recorded. In the case of India, where a DCNS design is built by a local company, DCNS is the provider and not the controller of technical data.

“In the case of Australia, and unlike India, DCNS is both the provider and in-country controller of technical data for the full chain of transmission and usage over the life of the submarines.”

However, The Australian has been told that the data on the Scorpene was written in France for India in 2011 and is suspected of being removed from France in that same year by a former French Navy officer who was at that time a DCNS subcontractor.

The data is then believed to have been taken to a company in Southeast Asia, possibly to assist in a commercial venture for a regional navy.

It was subsequently passed by a third party to a second company in the region before being sent on a data disk by regular mail to a company in Australia. It is unclear how widely the data has been shared in Asia or whether it has been obtained by foreign intelligence agencies.

The data seen by The Australian also includes separate confidential DCNS files on plans to sell French frigates to Chile and the French sale of the Mistral-class amphibious assault ship carrier to Russia. These DCNS projects have no link to India, which adds weight to the probability that the data files were removed from DCNS in France.

DCNS Australia this month signed a deed of agreement with the Defence Department, paving the way for talks over the contract which will guide the design phase of the new submarines. The government plans to build 12 submarines in Adelaide to replace the six-boat Collins-class fleet from the early 2030s. The Shortfin Barracuda will be a slightly shorter, conventionally powered version of France’s new fleet of Barracuda-class nuclear submarines.

Restricted data

The secret information the leaked documents reveal:

• The stealth capabilities of the six new Indian Scorpene submarines

• The frequencies at which the subs gather intelligence

• The levels of noise the subs make at various speeds

• Diving depths, range and endurance

• Magnetic, electromagnetic and infra-red data

• Specifications of the submarine’s torpedo launch system and the combat system

• Speed and conditions needed for using the periscope

• Propeller’s noise specifications

• Radiated noise levels when the submarine surfaces

They have put 3 small docs on there web pages as well. They have the whole data with them perhaps.

If true this will be a huge setback for out submarine program, wouldn't it??