Indian Navy News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

[Singha]

desi projects are minus the fat profit margins and gora salaries all over. and less corruption in the whole food chain. bigger the import bigger the money making opportunity.

but the biggest benefit is we own the design and can buy and make whatever we need rather than stupid restrictions like SM39 not working with a german FCS or TT being only compatible with Sea Hake and please pay $$ for any minor change

and extra money for integrating any desi system into the mix...apart from leakage of vital operational data to the highest bidder

[Karthik S]

http://www.defencenews.in/article/Home- ... ology-7789

India is grappling with a leak of sensitive data on its Scorpene submarines from the French company but an internal assessment has found that it could be cheaper to construct an indigenous set of nuclear-powered attack submarines rather than relying on a foreign vendor for technology.

India is currently building six Scorpene submarines under a licence agreement from France, a deal which was inked for . Rs 18,000 crore in 2005. The Rs 3,000 crore a submarine tag would go up further if escalation and inflation is calculated for the ten year build period.

However, ET has been told that an internal assessment has brought out that the cost of constructing six new nuclear-powered attack submarines, derived from the design and expertise gained from the INS Arihant — India's first nuclear boat — would be close to Rs 35,000 crore.

The set of indigenous nuclear attack boats would not be as stealthy as a conventional, diesel electric submarine but would have much greater endurance and weapon carrying capability.

"According to our calculations, if we are to build six attack submarines based on the existing design of the Arihant, the cost would not exceed Rs 35,000 crore," a source involved in the process told ET. Contrast this to an upcoming tender the Navy will float for six more conventional submarines which is expected to cost over Rs 60,000 crore, called Project 75 I.

French company DCNS, from which the leak has occurred, is one of the companies contesting for this order. The huge difference in pricing, officials told ET, is due to the licence fees charged in the case of the Scorpene and the cost of technology development that would be factored into project 75I from the vendor.

"In the case of the indigenous nuclear attack submarines, the design is already with us. It has been designed in India and the only cost would be the construction and fitment of weapons," the source said.

The Navy has a submarine design bureau that has' gained considerable expertise due to the Arihant project. As reported by ET, INS Arihant, which is a nuclear powered submarine armed with nuclear weapons, has successfully undergone trials and is ready for deployment.

[tsarkar]

But I thought as soon as they lost the german's offered a "no holds barr... tech transfer for P 75i " from there side there hasn't even been a whisper of any nakhra :
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 138779.cms

the HDW 214 submarines are being offered as a special case for Indian Navy's requirement of six boats

Manish,
In the 80's when everyone wanted to fight deep ocean battles with nuclear submarines and HDW Type 209/1500 was seen as coastal submarine, we did get full ToT. The 1500 was customized to Indian requirements with a escape pod and many improvements not found in other customer's like South Korean or Turkish Type 209/1400s.

Then suddenly coastal became littoral, and quieter DE subs started sinking noisier nuclear submarines in constricted waters in exercises, then the technology denial started.

The Type 214 does not have a teardrop hull like the Scorpene, which is why it was rejected in original competition where Scorpene was selected.

The Type 216 is just a design. The Shortfin Barracuda was based on French Barracuda while Scorpene was already being built for Chilean Navy. The Australians have a bad experience of chosing a one off design like the Collins Class.

The German AIP uses pure hydrogen that was deemed as an operational safety hazard by IN. We're temperamentally not as precise and methodical as Germans and managed to sink a submarine in harbor while loading a temperamental torpedo.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... [quote]The set of indigenous nuclear attack boats would not be as stealthy as a conventional, diesel electric submarine

[/quote]
Can 6000 tons INS Arihant or INS Chakra lurk outside Karachi harbor and stealthily sink Pakistani submarines as they come out without itself being detected? Do people recollect the euphoria in this very forum of IN Type 877EKM "sinking" US Navy nuclear submarine is a boxed exercise area a few months ago?

[Indranil]

Clearly the roles of a mini boomer and an attack submarine cannot be exchanged. Sarkar sahib, what are the missing pieces in the our know how to design and build our own attack submarines? In your assessment, how much time would we need to bridge the gap (if any) to do so.

[ShauryaT]

^Propulsion! But t.sarkar made the hypotheses in the past that Indian plan is to have a "multi role" nuclear sub. But I read the above post by t.sarkar to say DE and SSN roles cannot be easily exchanged?

[ShauryaT]

It will be difficult IMO for the IN capital budget to acquire all the needed sub and ASW assets. Is it better for the IN to rationalize say go in for an all nuclear sub fleet for new acquisitions and increasingly rely on other ASW assets for coastal waters? Otherwise it will be a little of everything, with plans being plans only for a long time to come. An all nuclear fleet provides an offensive posture, especially coupled with CBG.

[Manish_Sharma]

Thanks Tsarkar ji, very informative post as usual.

[darshhan]

Can 6000 tons INS Arihant or INS Chakra lurk outside Karachi harbor and stealthily sink Pakistani submarines as they come out without itself being detected? Do people recollect the euphoria in this very forum of IN Type 877EKM "sinking" US Navy nuclear submarine is a boxed exercise area a few months ago?

Tsarkar ji, You are quite right. US Navy is extremely concerned about the threat of conventional submarines to their own vessels(both nuclear and non nuclear). What is interesting is that they are not countering it with conventional subs of their own. But they will likely use UUVs for brown water operations in near to medium future. So it will be a mix of Nuclear submarines and UUVs for them. Advancement in the field of AI and deep learning will soon make it possible.

Likewise we have to choose our most optimum strategy. Maintaining more than half a dozen different Sub lines does not look to be a prudent one. HDW, Kilos, Scorpene, P75I, Arihant class SSBN, Akula class SSNs, Our own indigeneous SSNs. Really?

[Manish_Sharma]

What is interesting is that they are not countering it with conventional subs of their own. But they will likely use UUVs for brown water operations in near to medium future. So it will be a mix of Nuclear submarines and UUVs for them....

This documentary claims that their latest virginia-sub is made to be a coastal capable nuke boat... they've even developed super slow speed and sensors that they can get very very close to shore in super-stealth mode.

[nits]

How US Scored Landmark Military Agreement With India: Foreign Media - From IDRW

Earlier this year, a senior military officer Adm. Harry Harris said at an event in New Delhi that soon the naval vessels of the two nations steaming together “will become a common and welcome sight throughout Indo-Asia-Pacific waters.” The statement was aimed at countering Beijing’s expanding military footprint in the region and echoes Washington’s expectation that India plays the potential of net security provider in Asia.

We don't have much interest in that slide of globe and it will me more of US Ships which will be using our port / harbour facilities after this agreement. But i was under impression that Indian Navy itself is kind of struggling with less space to port and harbour there ships and with now US Naval Assets using our facilities more often - wouldn't it further stretch our resources \ capacity ?

[Yagnasri]

It may be more a facility to use in emergency conditions like war and a signal to China, US congress/senate, Pakis and ME countries.

[vinod]

Does this agreement mean that during war - we can use Japanese US bases to refuel, re-arm to attack China? I doubt it!

[darshhan]

What is interesting is that they are not countering it with conventional subs of their own. But they will likely use UUVs for brown water operations in near to medium future. So it will be a mix of Nuclear submarines and UUVs for them....

This documentary claims that their latest virginia-sub is made to be a coastal capable nuke boat... they've even developed super slow speed and sensors that they can get very very close to shore in super-stealth mode.

As you said this is a documentary

[Gyan]

People are obsessed about super quietness of diesel subs without realising that it's submerged endurance on batteries would be around 200km for around 2 days. Hence they are like semi mobile mines. Target must come to them.

SSN are hunters. Their submerged endurance is for many months. They can chase and kill a target. Their speed is such that even if detected, very difficult to kill as torpedoes cannot catch up. Therefore USA, France and UK do not use diesels.

[kit]

I suppose in littoral waters diesel subs do have a role but expeditionary purposes along with aircraft carriers you do need nuclear SSKs ..boomers are mostly loners relying on stealth and counter measures apart from carrying a whopping punch

[Singha]

SSKs are also mostly useless in escorting surface groups which can speed up to 30 knots. it will run out of steam in a few hours and fall away even at 20 knots.

[tsarkar]

Clearly the roles of a mini boomer and an attack submarine cannot be exchanged. Sarkar sahib, what are the missing pieces in the our know how to design and build our own attack submarines? In your assessment, how much time would we need to bridge the gap (if any) to do so.

Nuclear Submarine is easier to design & build than a DE submarine. Reason being ample power being available, so there is no need for compact subsystems to fit the limited displacement that a Diesel Engine + Electric Batteries can propel.

Firstly, one needs a robust reactor. Next, one needs turbines & transmission. Generators for electricity. The reason INS Arihant is being tested so much is to ensure their reliability. We all know maniac concern shown by Admiral Rickover for safety and reliability, and the same concern is adhered to in our case.

Next, we do not have suitable diesel engines, nor are Germans or French willing to supply them stand alone. Same goes for new generation batteries.

The Germans did share Type 209/1500 battery technology via Exide and we SDRE's promptly copied it for Type 877 EKM and old Kalvari submarines and even exported it to Algeria for its Kilos.

http://www.exideindustries.com/products ... eries.aspx

We are the country's only company to maintain a dedicated infrastructure with trained & skilled manpower to manufacture such specialized batteries, and one of the few battery manufacturers having the necessary capacity to manufacture submarine batteries for a wide range of submarine designs, such as Russian (Foxtrot/Romeo/ Kilo/636/Amur classes), German (209 class), French (Scorpene class) and Indigenous (Nuclear) submarines.

Refer Slide 38 here http://docs.exideindustries.com/pdf/cor ... tation.pdf

Materials need to be developed - steel for structures withstanding high pressures - like DMR249B under development.

http://www.financialexpress.com/markets ... es/105185/
http://www.business-standard.com/articl ... 287_1.html

Bhilai Steel Plant and its sister plants of the Steel Authority of India (SAIL) — at Rourkela, Durgapur and Bokaro — have manufactured 26,000 tonnes of high-grade “warship steel” that has gone into INS Vikrant, India’s first indigenous aircraft carrier that will be launched into water at Cochin Shipyard on Monday. Simultaneously, SAIL supplied steel for four corvettes that Garden Reach Shipbuilders and Engineers, Kolkata, is building under Project 28. And Essar Steel is providing steel for four destroyers that Mazagon Dock, Mumbai, is building under the Indian Navy’s Project 15B....

Says Commodore Saibal Sen, who is overseeing the construction of INS Vikrant, “Developing our own warship steel was a technological imperatives”.

And so the Defence R&D Organisation (DRDO) took up a project in 1999 to develop and mass-produce warship grade steel. Russia provided the chemical formula of warship steel called ABA, but the challenge in steelmaking is to translate science into manufacture.

Special Plate Plant, Rourkela, is emerging as a major special steels centre for defence equipment. It produces armoured plate for the T-90 and Arjun tanks, and the BMP-II infantry combat vehicle, which are built at Avadi and Medak respectively by the Ordnance Factory Board. Its annual capacity of 2,000 tonnes is being upped to 12,000 tonnes.

Being used on the INS Vikrant are three special steels — DMR 249A for the hull and body; and DMR 249B, a more resilient steel, which is used for the flight deck that must take the repeated impact of 20-30 tonne fighter aircraft landing. In 2008, DMR Z25 was developed for the floor of compartments that housed heavy equipment like engines and generators. This absorbs the compression and decompression from the heavy equipment.

In the pipeline now is DMR 292A, which will be used for the hull of submarines.

Other Materials to be developed include materials for silencing own submarines and Materials for transducers for sonars.

Electronics and signal processing equipment need to be developed, and the USHUS is better than comparable Russian sonars.

Finally, one needs to optimize the design for better hydrodynamics and for lower radiated noise and vibration. When the Japanese Soryu was offered to Australia, a Japanese Admiral remarked that they discovered light bulbs emitted noise at a certain frequency and they discovered and then eliminated that noise.

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2015/0 ... 8cSXGckqt8

Retired Vice Admiral Masao Kobayashi commanded Japan’s submarine fleet from 2007 to 2009....Kobayashi pointed to the ceiling lights in the quiet interview room and said: “Take those fluorescent lights, for example. Any fluorescent light generates sound.”...“Fluorescent lights generate extremely small vibrations. We take anti-vibration measures for every single light in a submarine,” he said.

Both US & USSR built multiple submarine classes - often single submarine classes - to refine and optimize their design

With INS Arihant, INS Aridaman and follow up classes, we will optimize our designs.

So in my opinion, we've achieved critical mass for nuclear submarines. For DE submarines, we will need good engines, batteries and a compact design first. That is atleast a couple of decades of R&D away, and to the best of my knowledge, no project is underway at DND for DE submarine design.

I am hoping and speculating that we can spin off a DE version of our nuclear submarine like the French created Shortfin version of nuclear Barracuda.

Finally I would summarize with the following statement
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-12-13/j ... ed/7022560

It has taken the Japanese 60 years of research and development to make the Soryu.

[Kakarat]

Nuclear Submarine is easier to design & build than a DE submarine. Reason being ample power being available, so there is no need for compact subsystems to fit the limited displacement that a Diesel Engine + Electric Batteries can propel.

Firstly, one needs a robust reactor. Next, one needs turbines & transmission. Generators for electricity. The reason INS Arihant is being tested so much is to ensure their reliability. We all know maniac concern shown by Admiral Rickover for safety and reliability, and the same concern is adhered to in our case.

Next, we do not have suitable diesel engines, nor are Germans or French willing to supply them stand alone. Same goes for new generation batteries.

The Germans did share Type 209/1500 battery technology via Exide and we SDRE's promptly copied it for Type 877 EKM and old Kalvari submarines and even exported it to Algeria for its Kilos.

http://www.exideindustries.com/products ... eries.aspx

We are the country's only company to maintain a dedicated infrastructure with trained & skilled manpower to manufacture such specialized batteries, and one of the few battery manufacturers having the necessary capacity to manufacture submarine batteries for a wide range of submarine designs, such as Russian (Foxtrot/Romeo/ Kilo/636/Amur classes), German (209 class), French (Scorpene class) and Indigenous (Nuclear) submarines.

...

Nice sum up tsarkar

So we have a battery design to start with, even if its not state of the art. The link you provided says that the Scorpene are also fitted with Exide batteries, so they shouldn't be that bad. If you remember DRDO is developing an AIP in which the Navy is actively involved and its even planned to be fitted in the Scorpenes in later stages. So we are close to having a propulsion system for submarines.

Making indigenous tech for submarines: Navy chief Aug 02, 2016

The Indian Navy chief admiral Sunil Lanba on Monday said that India was constructing its own indigenous Air Independent Propulsion (AIP) system with the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) to equip the next generation of submarines that the Indian Navy is planning to induct. The AIP allows submarines to operate without having to access atmospheric oxygen.

As far as the steel is concerned if we don't have it we can import till we develop our own like we did for warships earlier. All other shortcomings can be overcome only if we start to design and build our own submarines.

It is high time we started developing our own submarine (both SSN & SSK) based on the experience from the ATV project and we should also be having some design documents of the Shishumar-class and Scorpenes to refer to.

[Indranil]

DND is designing the an SSN (6 of which are to be built) based on Arihant. The timeline there is 15 years. May be we can build the Shortfin version of the same. That will be another 10-15. So may be that is the horizon: 25-30 years!

[Singha]

are the chinese license building ukrainian and russian diesel engines for Song and Yuan class or they have somehow cloned western engines with wink wink nudge nudge payoffs via lucrative infra projects?

if at all we need low hanging SSK to be mobile mines, why cannot we try to obtain the kilo 636 power train?

[Philip]

Sorry,been off the grid for some time. The IN has a huge numbers problem right now.Whatever info about the Scorpene that has been leaked will have some impact even if the actual performance of the IN's boats are differemnt.it will give the enemy a good overall picture of the boat and its minimum performance. IN Kilos have better capabilities than those supplied to China.We had 10 of them before the SR tragedy.We now have nine,with most boats over 25 yrs old being refitted for the second time.Since we have over 3 decades of experience using them a couple of them on lease at least (from Russia) until new boats arrive wouldn't be a bad idea. The lease of 2 Amurs was supposedly on offer some time ago. Morocco is supposedly looking at the type.Kilos cost only $300+M too,half the price of a Scorpene of U-boat.Numbers do matter for us as we have to now patrol UW right from the Gulf/Gwadar,Arabian Sea,IOR,A&N islands,Malacca Straits and into the Indo-China Sea (so-called South China Sea). We will be terribly streteched as the PLAN has begun regular patrols of the IOR with its N-subs.

China is to build 8 new diesel AIP boats for Pak,most prob. with the Sterling engine AIP system. Pak will then possess from 8-12 subs eventually,a huge number for its piddly coastline.The PN has virtually become China's "IOR Command". The hinted option for us is to acquire German U-boats in a G-to-G deal.Fine,but what offensive capability will these boats have? Just Harpoon or Exocet,both subsonic. No Klub type or BMos type missiles as they are too small for the latter.The West is far behind in sub-launched land attack.anti-ship,anti-sub missiles barring the US with its Tomahawk,etc. which serves only on its N-boats and allies N-boats.

Therefore if we have to catch up with the PLAN and PN,we will have to accelerate the construction of the 6 SSNs,acquire U-boats which will take 5/6 yrs before the first arrives AND acquire from Russia new/leased conventional boats ,plus at least a few more Akulas too (until our own SSNs are in the water),and take a good look at the new Kalina class which is expected to arrive around 2018/2020,as eventually all the Kilos will have to be replaced with an affordable diesel/AIP sub type.24+ conventional subs and another 12+ SSBNs/SSGNs is the bare minimum for us to deal with the PLAN and Pak which will possess approx. 80+12 subs respectively. The GOI/MOD must fast track this most vulnerable aspect of our military capability.

[tsarkar]

they have somehow cloned western engines with wink wink nudge nudge payoffs via lucrative infra projects?

You're close. License manufacture dual use MTU 396 series engines also used in mining, power generation & railway locomotives. MTU 396 is used in U212/214 and Chile Scorpene. Full details here http://in.reuters.com/article/breakout- ... FM20131219

[Kakarat]

DND is designing the an SSN (6 of which are to be built) based on Arihant. The timeline there is 15 years. May be we can build the Shortfin version of the same. That will be another 10-15. So may be that is the horizon: 25-30 years!

I personally fell waiting for the SSN and then starting a Shortfin version will be a wast of time. we should concurrently start developing a SSK and the subsystems developed can be used for both. By this we can sort out all the issues and shortcomings before the development of the Shortfin version SSN. A smaller and lighter SSK will also have good export potential especially in the dragons backyard.

[Philip]

When we are already operating an Akula SSGN with the hints of at least one more to be acquired on lease,why do we need an inferior Shortfin,which is a conventional version of a French SSN? Our own SSN programme will fill that requirement of long range and endurance (90 + days) that only an N-sub provides. WE also need numbers for the littoral and IOR operations,where more affordable disel/AIP subs fit the bill,adding to the UW inventory.

[Kakarat]

When we are already operating an Akula SSGN with the hints of at least one more to be acquired on lease,why do we need an inferior Shortfin,which is a conventional version of a French SSN? Our own SSN programme will fill that requirement of long range and endurance (90 + days) that only an N-sub provides. WE also need numbers for the littoral and IOR operations,where more affordable disel/AIP subs fit the bill,adding to the UW inventory.

We are not discussing the French Shortfin but a Shortfin version of the Indian SSN which is under development.

[Yagnasri]

The temporary capacity gap in subs may result in serious problems to us in the case of war in near future. Maybe we go for a couple of dozen latest versions of Kilos with AIP ( are they coming with AIP?) to shore up the numbers as an interim solution and work on our own SSK's and SSNs at the same time.

[JTull]

Good post tsarkar.

Philip, agree with you on getting couple of new kilos. To put things in perspective, we should compare their costs to Su-30MKI upgrade or M2K upgrade or the three Project 11356 class frigates we're negotiating for with Russia, or cost of a single Rafale.

[kit]

Wonder how easy it is to develop a new kilo variant with German diesels DRDO fuel cells and possible American combat systems !

[Prem]

Not Indian but USA & Worth asking Massa to sell or share half of it

Is the US Navy Getting Ready to Build the Most 'Stealth' Submarine Ever?

The Navy’s new nuclear-armed ballistic missile submarines will incorporate a stealthy “X”-shaped stern and noise-reducing electric drive technology as a way to try to engineer the quietest and least-detectable submarine in the history of the world, senior service officials said. One key innovation is a current move toward use of a new “X”-shaped stern on the Ohio Replacement submarines to replace an existing cross-shape now on Ohio-class boats. The new shape both improves maneuverability and improves quieting technologies for the submarine, Richard said. Manufacturers with General Dynamics Electric Boat, the firm building the ORP, is now preparing to integrate the quieter “X”-shaped stern into the boat.“ORP does have an “X” stern as compared to a traditional rudder and stern configuration. That was done to give us the required navigational draft and provide better maneuverability and performance,” Will Lennon, Vice President of Engineering and Design Programs, Electric Boat, told Scout Warrior in an interview.The “X”-shaped stern will restore maneuverability to submarines; as submarine designs progressed from using a propeller to using a propulsor to improve quieting, submarines lost some surface maneuverability, Navy officials explained.
Unlike most existing submarines which use mechanical drive propulsion technology, the Ohio Replacement program is being designed with a quieter electric drive propulsion system, Navy officials have explained.

Navy developers have explained that rather than translating high speed turbines through reduction gears, electricity from the high-speed turbines is used to drive and electric motor and propel the ship. The electric motor substantially improves upon the already quiet mechanical propulsion now used by the existing Ohio ballistic missile submarines.“This is much quieter than a mechanical system,” a senior Navy official said.“We’ve done some experimental things with electric drive in the past, but to perfect it for the Ohio Replacement SSBN required innovation, efforts the Navy spent more than 15 years developing,” the official explained.One analyst said electric drive for the ORP brings a number of advantages and pointed out that the Navy’s new USS Zumwalt high-tech destroyer also uses electric-drive technology. As it does on the Zumwalt, electric drive technology can also help the new Ohio-class nuclear-armed submarines generate on-board electrical power for communications and weapons systems on board the boat.

[Singha]

GRSE has failed the post qualification after submitting lowest bid to philipine navy for 2 corvettes and contract went to korea

[ShauryaT]

So in my opinion, we've achieved critical mass for nuclear submarines.

The statements rests on more light being shed on the reactor design for the SSN project. If as you have said in the past, that you expect our subs to follow our own unique philosophy of a "multi role" capability. This philosophy being distinct from the classical SSN & SSBN approaches by other NWS. I know, BARC would like it to be so. The IN is to my understanding yet to be convinced. Let us know, if you get to know more on the above. Thanks for your insight, even if your hypotheses turns out incorrect on the multi role thingie, Thank you for expounding on it.

However, if you are correct then a new reactor design that can serve as the basis for a classical SSN and a derivative of the same being used to power IAC 2 would be out of scope. There are many American Bharat Rakshaks, who would be disappointed, as their favorite Ameircan designed EMALS equipped IAC 2 is not going to fruition. America is not sharing an ounce of their reactor designs with the "partner" of the 21st century

[Bheeshma]

Singhaji it seems like a political decision by philippines. Some how I am not too concerned about that bid. GRSE needs to churn out the remaining two P-28's and then get on the P-17a and P-28a's. There is enough work for them.

The koreans were offering 6 of their second hand pohang corvettes to sweeten the deal and most likely swayed the phillipines navy which really has zero fighting capability. Their main ships are second hand american coast guard ships.

[kit]

the chinese are selling those subs keeping Gwadar in mind ..they know the piddling surface PN will be shot out of the water in the first day of conflict..subs are more survivable and the chinks want pakistan to earn their keep .. better get the baluchis work for their freedom ...

[sooraj]

India shelves plan to expand French Scorpene submarine order

[Singha]

Arms deals are always tied to politics and economics. Thats why top10 rule 99% of the field

[Prem]

http://www.orfonline.org/expert-speaks/ ... -its-tail/
Scorpene with a “sting” in its tail

report in the newspaper last week is said to have revealed that a person who called himself a ‘whistle-blower’ had leaked the information as an act of public goodwill. The disclosure is a continuation of assaults on DCNS’s reputation — meant squarely to weaken the company’s credibility and competence vis-à-vis data protection. Last week, the Rear Admiral (Retd) John Padgett, the president of the US Naval Submarine League, spoke of the need for “aggressive action” to probe the leak and a former commander of US Pacific fleet Submarine Force warned that the expose would undermine the confidence in the ability of French companies to protect classified information.All of this makes one wonder if the ‘whistle-blower’ theory is in itself a cover for a deeper, more sinister plot. Whatever dark secrets The Australian may have uncovered, there is something eerily doubtful about its story.To get a sense of the dire improbability of individual events, it is important to carefully recount the purported facts. If The Australian story is true, the Scorpene data was removed from DCNS by a former French Navy officer and his friend, both company subcontractors with the company. The former naval officer, apparently, illicitly removed the material — in this case a scanned technical manual — to serve as a reference guide for his new job at a private firm in a Southeast Asian country.
The story appears outwardly plausible, until one begins to consider the odds favoring the individual events. Then the questions begin to fly. Is it a mere coincidence that the workers get sacked around the same time as DNCS is awarded Australia’s biggest defence contract? That the French subcontractors have sensitive data on a disc without a password? And that they choose to keep their secret possession in their office building, with full knowledge of their employers and seniors, who then deny them entry into the building after their termination from service — even to collect their personal belongings?Intriguingly, despite being aware of the disc’s ‘sensitive’ information, company officials do not try and investigate its contents. Realistically, this could only be the case if there was a password protecting the disc’s contents, or if the firm in question wasn’t a vessel-construction company at all. But we know neither of these possibilities is really true. According to the whistle-blower, company’s senior executives had full access to the CD’s contents (containing sensitive details of India’s premier submarine project) and recognised that the material in their possession could assist the replacement of the sacked French workers in an ongoing construction project.

Even assuming there were a series of coincidences that led to an unlikely set of actions by the protagonists, it is astonishing that company officials chose to send the disc to their head-office in Singapore without appreciating the data’s sensitive nature. Shockingly, the IT head in Singapore too has no idea about the material’s real significance. Yet, he tries to upload it on a server, in contravention of company laws that prohibit the placing of illegally obtained material on company servers.What happens next, tests the limits of incredulity. The company’s IT head, unable to email the data over the net, cuts a disc and dispatches it to a contact in Sydney, who, in an amazing twist of fate, suffers a conscience attack upon viewing the CD’s contents — just in time to make a revelation in public interest.There is more to confound the thinking mind. Apparently, the whistle-blower knows exactly when the data was placed on the server (April 18, 2013), but can’t remember when it was removed. “Could have been there from a few days for a few years”, he says, raising two crucial sets of questions:If the idea of cyber-transmission of the data to the whistle-blower proved unfeasible, why didn’t company officials immediately remove the data from the server?If the whistle-blower took note of the exact data when the data is uploaded on the server, why didn’t he care to find out when it was removed? How is he even sure that the data was cleared from the server?It is entirely possible then that the whistle blower theory is a convenient cover for a more dubious saga. The search for ammunition to scuttle DCNS’ Australian submarine contract may well have begun the day the company was awarded the tender. The plan would have been to find material that could discredit the French firm — in a way that the Australian government has little option but to reconsider the merits of the case and scrap the contract. Contrary to what some analysts have suggested, the timing of the leaks does reveal a story. Until it was announced in May this year, no one really expected DCNS to clinch the submarine deal, and many were shocked when it finally emerged as the winner. The problem for the company’s opponents was that the transparent nature of the award made it impossible for them to level allegations of corruption, bribery or favouritism to force the Australian government to reconsider the contract. The only available option now was to discredit the company by gathering information that would show the firm as being incompetent to undertake a venture of the scale and sensitivity.

It is well known in maritime circles that data-proliferation is hard to contain in the ship and submarine construction business because of the multiplicity of agencies and interests involved. In recent years, the use of subcontractors has been the bane of submarine construction, especially since it does not allow for a centralised model of operations where secrecy can be effectively ensured. It is a problem that navies and shipbuilding companies have to routinely deal with. But when no other excuse works to discredit rivals, movable classified data comes in handy.
.The express motive to damage the DCNS’ reputation, has become clear through the repeated references in Australia and the US to dangerous compromises of data, rendered “vulnerable to hacking or interception by foreign intelligence services.”The investigation team must now probe the culpability of media agencies in this expose. It would be interesting to know if there was really a quid pro quo involved. More importantly, it is worth investigating if there was intergovernmental collusion in engineering the leak. With the naval chiefs of India, Australia, Malaysia, Chile and Brazil — countries that operate variants of the Scorpene or have ordered the submarine — set to discuss the scandal during an upcoming symposium in the US, there is certainly a great deal of concern its revelations.
Contrary to appearances, investigators might well conclude that this goes beyond the conscience pangs of a “responsible Australian” acting “in national interest”.

[Avarachan]

I don't think this news was posted on BR.

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/n ... ?css=print
July 28, 2016
"Naval lab to develop optic-guided torpedoes"

The NSTL will see the launch of major projects every year during the next three or four years.

The submarine variant of Varunastra would be test-fired in about two months and the optic-guided torpedo trials will begin by the year-end, according to Mr. Malleswar, who held a press conference on Wednesday on the eve of 47th Lab Raising Day.

The NSTL worked with BDL and BEL in concurrent engineering mode and once the Navy placed the orders, 73 Varunastra and 33 Mareechs, costing about Rs. 2,000 crore, will be made by them for deployment. Besides, he said, the NSTL has made long strides in fire-control system.

It has developed Panchendriya for submarines, another system for helicopters. Its integrated anti-submarine warfare complex ‘MOD 0’ has been inducted on six Rajput Class ships.

ASW complex ‘MOD C’ has been designed for corvettes of Kolkata, Kamorta and Kochi Class and these are also ready for inducting Varunastra and Mareech ....

Mr. Malleswar, who is laying down office this month-end, said the NSTL had an excellent international facility in hydrodynamic research with Seakeeping and Manoeuvring Basin inaugurated recently by the Defence Minister at which sea-keeping abilities of vessels are tested with models.

The Cavitation tunnel identifies operational regimes for a ship or submarine.

The recently installed propulsion system integration centre integrates engines and propellers. It also works on minimising signature of vessels to prevent detection by enemy ships.

“So we have total ship designing indigenously with weapons, propellers, fire control systems, mines and decoys,” Mr. Malleswar said.

“There is no looking back and we are confident of doing anything,” he said.

[Avarachan]

There's no earth-shattering information in this Jane's article from 2015, but it's interesting to see the current state of Western torpedo development. If the Indian tests take place as scheduled, India is entering the top tier. Check out the timelines of the British program.

http://www.janes360.com/images/assets/5 ... course.pdf
"Big hitters: heavyweight torpedoes follow an incremental course." 2015.

Spearfish upgrade
In late 2014, the UK Ministry of Defence (MoD) awarded BAE Systems Maritime Services a GBP270 million (USD421 million) Demonstration and Full Manufacture contract for the upgrade of an undisclosed number of UK Royal Navy (RN) Spearfish Mod 0 HWTs to Mod 1 standard. Deliveries are scheduled to run from 2020 through to 2024.

Entering service in 1994, the current Spearfish Mod 0 HWT equips all RN submarines, providing them with a capability against both submarine and surface targets. The Spearfish Upgrade (SFU) programme, which brings the weapon up to Mod 1 standard, is designed to address the need for incremental improvements in safety, to remove obsolescence, and to enable through-life cost reduction.

BAE Systems was contracted for the SFU Assessment Phase in April 2010. Under this four-year activity, the company completed a series of system design, development, risk reduction, and integration activities, including in-water testing of technology torpedoes undertaken in early 2014 at the British Underwater Test and Evaluation Centre (BUTEC) off northwest Scotland.

Upgrades being embodied in the Spearfish Mod 1 include the introduction of a fully digital weapon architecture (both hardware and software), replacement of the current copper/cadmium wire-guidance link with a ruggedised fibre-optic system (reducing the data latency between the platform and the weapon), and the replacement of the existing warhead with an IM-compliant one.

[soumik]

Wrote this on my blog earlier today, would love it if the Gurus here could take a look and let me know what they think
http://bengalraider.blogspot.in/2016/09 ... ahead.html

[Eric Leiderman]

Hi Soumik
It was a nice read