Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

All threads that are locked or marked for deletion will be moved to this forum. The topics will be cleared from this archive on the 1st and 16th of each month.
pankajs
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14734
Joined: 13 Aug 2009 20:56

Re: Joint Army/IAF Anti-Terrorist Cross Border Op into Myanm

Postby pankajs » 10 Jun 2015 15:04

http://www.wsj.com/articles/indian-army ... 1433927858
Indian Army Attacks Militant Camps in Myanmar
Zaw Htay, director of the office of Myanmar President Thein Sein, confirmed Wednesday that Indian troops had entered his country’s border. He said that there was “coordination and cooperation” between the Indian troops and Myanmar’s armed forces based in the area of the raids, but added that no Myanmar soldiers were directly involved.

“We will never allow or support insurgents, whether [they are] against Myanmar or against our neighboring countries,” Mr. Zaw Htay added.

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Joint Army/IAF Anti-Terrorist Cross Border Op into Myanm

Postby Singha » 10 Jun 2015 15:07

bio of Phizo the founder of naga 'rebels' who died in exile in london. did any congi govt lean hard on the brits to extradite him? on what basis was he sheltered by HMG for decades?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angami_Zapu_Phizo

there is also a shadowy role of baptist missionaries from amrika who were chased out of yunnan by Mao's regime, but crossed the border across the arakan hills and setup shop in nagaland.....they helped to impart the nagas a sense they were apart from the dark unwashed masses of the gangetic belt....the nagas left their traditional religion and dress and adopted roman script, western dress including a strange habit (also seen in mizoram) of wearing bowler hats like a pukka upper crust bartania ashrafi....

Amitabh
BRFite
Posts: 270
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Joint Army/IAF Anti-Terrorist Cross Border Op into Myanm

Postby Amitabh » 10 Jun 2015 15:12

Singha wrote:the disaster which was india's past policy wrt nagaland is seen in this photo...KSCN(K) cadres in their camp 13 km from dimapur bearing all weapons, celebrating the naga republic day in 2010! "ceasefire" does not mean you let the bandits run the place with all their weapons!

http://e-pao.net/GP.asp?src=14..220310.mar10

and their boss in myanmar
https://zhonah.files.wordpress.com/2012 ... aplang.jpg

Yes Singha, ceasefire also means lowest levels of violence and killings in recent years: Insurgency-related killings 1992-2015 (SATP)

(What a disaster for people who enjoy conflict).

Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 19840
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: Joint Army/IAF Anti-Terrorist Cross Border Op into Myanm

Postby Karan M » 10 Jun 2015 15:18

Next: Snip an inch off, and allow the TSP Army to set up shop several dozens of kms into India. Major peace and less "conflict".

What a boon for those who seek peace and those who don't enjoy conflict. :rotfl:

Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 19840
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: Joint Army/IAF Anti-Terrorist Cross Border Op into Myanm

Postby Karan M » 10 Jun 2015 15:25

Singha wrote:the disaster which was india's past policy wrt nagaland is seen in this photo...KSCN(K) cadres in their camp 13 km from dimapur bearing all weapons, celebrating the naga republic day in 2010! "ceasefire" does not mean you let the bandits run the place with all their weapons!

http://e-pao.net/GP.asp?src=14..220310.mar10

and their boss in myanmar
https://zhonah.files.wordpress.com/2012 ... aplang.jpg


High time these turds were given a royal thrashing. There is one republic and that is the Indian republic. They can take their claims of being a republic and shove it.

Over ground workers like the SAJA types, loony left will whine but who the heck cares about those crooks and their "intellectual opinions" anyhow.

Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 19840
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: Joint Army/IAF Anti-Terrorist Cross Border Op into Myanm

Postby Karan M » 10 Jun 2015 15:29

SSridhar posted this. What a change from the times of napunsak Singh and the Italian crook.

SSridhar wrote:Inside story: Over 100 northeast militants may have been killed in Army's Myanmar operations - Bharti Jain, ToI

Jai Ho.

Indian Army's surgical strike deep inside Myanmar, bordering Manipur, lasted for about 45 minutes and over 100 northeast militants may have been killed in the operation, a ministry of home affairs source told TOI.

Army's strike against militants was so precise that latter had no chance to recover from first burst of fire. Indian Army forces faced no retaliation and not a single shot was fired by militants.

Six injured rebels are admitted in a hospital.

Myanmar has since cordoned off the area where Indian Army undertook operations against northeast insurgents.

On Nagaland border too, Army's special forces pursued militants into Myanmar and killed 15 insurgents.

The Myanmar government was informed hours after the commandos in battle fatigues had mostly completed surgical strikes against the groups which had over the past couple of weeks killed 30 Indian soldiers. The operation, conceived as retaliation as well as the declaration of Modi government's intent to strike at terror threats across its borders, had begun at 3am but the Indian ambassador could pass on the information to Myanmar's foreign ministry only after their offices opened at regular hours on Tuesday morning.

The commandos safely returned to Indian territory after silencing the insurgents' guns.

IAF choppers and drones assisted the SF (special forces) soldiers.

Myanmar hot pursuit signals massive change in India's strategy

Minister of state for information and broadcasting Rajyavardhan Singh Rathore told Times Now that the hot pursuit was ordered by Prime Minister Narendra Modi. He said attacks on Indians, be it in Iraq or Yemen, were unacceptable. "This is a message to neighbours who harbour terrorists," Rathore said.

Announcing the success, the government made it clear that it was not a one-off operation but symbolized its decision not to be constrained by borders and to be pre-emptive in dealing with terror threats. "While ensuring peace and tranquility along the border and in the border states, any threat to our security, safety and national integrity will meet a firm response," the Army declared officially, a posture that is also applicable to terror groups sheltered by other neighbouring countries. {AoA}

The troops were guided to two camps of the Nationalist Socialist Council of Nagaland (Khaplang) and allied insurgent groups by intelligence which was gathered by operatives who crossed over into Myanmar a couple of days ago and returned with precise co-ordinates of the terror dens along with photographs.

The daring raid, which saw commandos crawling hundreds of meters to raid the camps, marked the unveiling of India's new response to unconventional threats irrespective of where they come from. This was the first declared instance of the use of the doctrine of pre-emption: a principle that the US invokes to disregard constraints of national borders to nip threats.

Briefing the reporters after the successful strikes on the camps at two separate locations across Tuensang in Nagaland and Ukhrul in Manipur, Major General Ranbir Singh made no bones of the fact that the twin operations were provoked by the killing of Indian soldiers. More importantly, he said the Army had to move in view of "credible and specific" intelligence about more attacks inside India. "These attacks were to be carried out by some of the groups involved in earlier attacks on our security personnel and their allies," said General Singh, additional director general of military operations.

"In view of the imminent threat, an immediate response was necessary," he said.

Government sources said the political leadership cleared the cross-border pursuit because it was considered necessary to lift the morale of the Army after it lost 30 of its men in 3 attacks by insurgents, as well as to send across a message to "perpetrators of terror wherever they are".

Explaining Modi government's new stance towards terror threat, a senior official told TOI: "You cannot realistically hope to prevent each terror attack because the timing and the target is determined by the enemy. But how do you respond is your prerogative. And it is the response which defines your determination to use all responses at your disposal to strike at those responsible."

The cross-border pursuit was in line with Modi government's decision to give disproportionate response to provocations, which had been visible in Jammu & Kashmir in recent months, where Indian troops have been aggressive in their response to ceasefire violations by Pakistan.


Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 19840
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: Joint Army/IAF Anti-Terrorist Cross Border Op into Myanm

Postby Karan M » 10 Jun 2015 15:36

Next thing would be for Modi/Doval to ask the Army to re institute the TSD as well.

For folks with short memories, this is what napunsak singh aka MMS and his crooked buddies like Chiddu did using political pressure on the IA.

http://www.the-week.com/cgi-bin/MMOnlin ... =EDITORIAL

VK Singh took on the crooked cartel selling Tatras (the owner being a doon school chuddy buddy of the waitress's hubby) and hence he was targeted non stop via the age issue, TSD. AKA sat around and twiddled thumbs powerless against the crooked gang around him.

Hari Seldon
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9265
Joined: 27 Jul 2009 12:47
Location: University of Trantor

Re: Joint Army/IAF Anti-Terrorist Cross Border Op into Myanm

Postby Hari Seldon » 10 Jun 2015 15:44

Meanwhile...

>>Vishnu Som ‏@VishnuNDTV 1m1 minute ago
Army denies the use of choppers in rocket or gun attacks during Myanmar ops.

UlanBatori
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14045
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Joint Army/IAF Anti-Terrorist Cross Border Op into Myanm

Postby UlanBatori » 10 Jun 2015 15:50

Just pointing out the obvious: If you work back on the timeline, it does appear obvious that "hot pursuit" is now a ***POLICY***, not a ****DECISION***.
Yes, the Amby in Yangon informed the foreign ministry, the minute he knew. Agreement with the Yangon govt had been made long ago - look at THEIR policy statement of pest-e-sha'eed.

Think through that please. :mrgreen:

The difference is this:
**DECISION**: Terrorists attack and kill 18 soldiers. Outrage, sorrow. Platitudes mumble-mumbled. PM calls it "mindless". Media calls it "shocking". Cabinet meets. Army finds out who did it, says where they are, seeks permission to do pest-e-sha'eed. Home Ministry Babu out for the week at NainiTal. Dephenj Ministry Babu gone to see niece in San Francisco. External Affairs Ministry Babu present, but trying to decide whether to be picking his nose or scratching his ***. Six weeks go by. PM orders War Phooting Preparashuns. Befitting Lesson will Be Taught NEXT time! Parliament questions.

***POLICY**: Contingency plans in place for many operations, intel continuous. Attack occurs. Intel tracks the killers. Operation GO inside 30 minutes. Logistics move, forces move, preparations aimed at actual battle. Operation proceeds at 'time and place of our choosing'. Rotors start turning. Weapons already loaded and at the ready, inside. Commander calls PM and lets them know.

PM has the right to ***STOP** the mission. He says: OK, we will tell the other guvrmands ASAP. Or, more realistically, Babu at Teen Murti Bhavan says: "Saarry, PeeEm eej out of the country onlee, Call back next Monday onlee, say 10-11 AM". But this causes no delay.

I don't know if policy is different on the west, I hope not.

Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 19840
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: Joint Army/IAF Anti-Terrorist Cross Border Op into Myanm

Postby Karan M » 10 Jun 2015 16:05

Hari Seldon wrote:Meanwhile...

>>Vishnu Som ‏@VishnuNDTV 1m1 minute ago
Army denies the use of choppers in rocket or gun attacks during Myanmar ops.


They shouldn't have revealed how they did it anyhow. Tactics, methods, MO should be off the table. The pic release by Manu Pubby was completely irresponsible even if he got it from some IA guy, but he is another type with a long history of self glorification and what not, so to be expected. Compare and contrast to how guys like Saurav Jha deliberately blurred pics of Arihant etc before mass media broke it.
We should just say "went in, kicked terrorists" done.

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Joint Army/IAF Anti-Terrorist Cross Border Op into Myanm

Postby Singha » 10 Jun 2015 16:13

the nagaland 'ceasefire' was a bribery and part-capitulation albeit it got rid of the NSCN(IM) faction off the table...most must be prosperous businessmen and potential congi system allies now on backs of looted wealth. delhi has always tried in the past with mixed results to bribe extremists back into the mainstream...like the band of bandits called SULFA(surrendered ulfa) in assam. one such worthy is a major league car dealership owner now..when even is palatial house is built on extorted land! some have become buddijeebis and intellectuals, some have moved to other parts of india with their bags of gold...

but the NSCN(K) which used to be the weaker faction and more low key seems to have received steroids from yunnan and is now the 'father' to smaller orphaned groups like ulfa rump that paresh barua runs.

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Joint Army/IAF Anti-Terrorist Cross Border Op into Myanm

Postby Singha » 10 Jun 2015 16:15

the helicopter mystery will remain unsolved unless some planespotter sees C17s take off under full load from jorhat or silchar.
at 3am nobody is going to know....and nor does it matter really.

Murugan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4191
Joined: 03 Oct 2002 11:31
Location: Smoking Piskobidis

Re: Joint Army/IAF Anti-Terrorist Cross Border Op into Myanm

Postby Murugan » 10 Jun 2015 16:19


Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 19840
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: Joint Army/IAF Anti-Terrorist Cross Border Op into Myanm

Postby Karan M » 10 Jun 2015 16:26

Singha wrote:the nagaland 'ceasefire' was a bribery and part-capitulation albeit it got rid of the NSCN(IM) faction off the table...most must be prosperous businessmen and potential congi system allies now on backs of looted wealth. delhi has always tried in the past with mixed results to bribe extremists back into the mainstream...like the band of bandits called SULFA(surrendered ulfa) in assam. one such worthy is a major league car dealership owner now..when even is palatial house is built on extorted land! some have become buddijeebis and intellectuals, some have moved to other parts of india with their bags of gold...

but the NSCN(K) which used to be the weaker faction and more low key seems to have received steroids from yunnan and is now the 'father' to smaller orphaned groups like ulfa rump that paresh barua runs.


Congress has long had a vested interest in running such crooked deals of "surrendered militants now in mainstream" etc and then using their leftist crooks in media, compromised bureaucrats, to justify it. What they basically do is move hard core criminals into the political system and make sure they work for the INC or their allies so they can be counted on to keep the power, moolah flowing to INC and cronies. Also IA and SF can no longer touch them. These guys run a complex system of patronage and crooked stuff. Congress followed the same template in ethnic/"secular" affairs in many places. They take the worst local criminals, rabid fellows and prop them up as "community representatives" to keep the locals in line and ensure diktat is done. The real liberals are sidelined and face threats and are cowed into silence. Meanwhile the crooks get Padma awards, posts in cushy Govt institutions and other nice benefits.

Truly a completely crooked, and subverted system and no wonder many portions of our country remain in turmoil even though we have superbly trained IA forces and the ability to wipe out these outfits.

sudhan
BRFite
Posts: 1103
Joined: 01 Jul 2009 17:53
Location: Timbuktoo..

Re: Joint Army/IAF Anti-Terrorist Cross Border Op into Myanm

Postby sudhan » 10 Jun 2015 16:37

^^ Re: Amitabh's posts:

I disagree on several of your points, I will try and put across my view. Sorry if it sounds like a ramble..

The fact is that there is a political and military background to this action, not least of which is a 2010 agreement between India and Myanmar to facilitate crossborder strikes by Indian forces over and above previous joint military operations (as occurred in 2006). These facts complicate the current government's preferred narrative (which more generally is to claim take credit for many things done by others - more so than any of its predecessors), but they cannot be wished away.


Indian forces have crossed the Myanmar (and Bhutan) border on several occasions in the past, only not announced it to the world via an "eloquent" Rajyavardhan Rathore!


* The agreement says the both militaries can pursue militants across borders *after* obtaining consent. This has been stated by several news outlets too. There was no waiting for consent this time. Even if a blanket consent was obtained prior to the op, it takes guts to give the go ahead without actually letting the neighboring country know. The Myanmar authorities were informed well after the operation had commenced. Has this happened before? I don't think so. I also am happy that the Myanmar higher ups have sung along the same lines as the Indian statement, this points to heavy back channel activities to sooth any ruffled feathers. In the end their echandee also remains intact. This is the first time an Indian government has responded with speed and decisiveness. Super quick planning and decisions from the top. No waiting around for the Burmese to acknowledge and eventually end up leaking the info to the militants.

Also, AFAIK none of the past joint operations had the Indian forces unilaterally taking down enemy combatants (other posters can correct me here if im wrong). The past joint ops involved longer planning and co-ordination in some cases the govt had developed cold-e-feetitis and backed out of the cross border action. In the clipping you had posted some pages back (TOI) I don't read a single instance where the Indian Forces were in action alone. It was always a secular joint op, Myanmar even managed to thumb their noses at us cause they were upset at Suu Kyi gettin the piss award. It is indeed joyful to see an Indian govt ruthlessly protect India's honor and Interests.

Hats off to SF, but if you think there is any message for the western border you must be smoking strong stuff.


* Pawkis have received several messages from the Indian leadership in the recent past, this will not go unnoticed. The pawkis are crying themselves hoarse to any foreign govt diplomat willing to listen that the Indian def min has openly admitted to funding terrorists in Pak. In public they would act as if nothing is wrong, in private there is a massive shalwar browning ceremony happening for sure. Expect multiple multiple articles from ISI hacks in pawki rags claiming India will pay a steep price if it tries something similar. If you remember after Op Neptune Spear, which had no Indian hand, the pawkis went nuts and started warning India: "Don't try anything similar, we are a nookilar powah!" Do you think this would go unnoticed?

* A lot of cross-border action has happened in the past on the western front (as pointed out by many posters here) the scope was limited and also the Govt never went public with it, neither did the pawkis due to the sheer loss to their echandee it would cause. So saying that a similar cross border assault on the pawkis is impossible is inaccurate. This is the first time in decades, Im hearing a PM of India openly calling Pakis a Nuisance. When has that happened before? MMS was all "Strong and stable pak is good for Sooth asia".. AKA was all "Terrorists along with People in PAK army uniforms..." No one had the stones to call a spade a spade. Now the PM himself has taken the lead. If taken along with similar tones from the NSA and RM, one can be sure that ruling out similar (Overt or covert) ops in the western theater will be immature.

About the low casualities during a ceasefire

(What a disaster for people who enjoy conflict).


* I believe no one here likes a conflict just for the sake of the bloodshed. This one gets eyeballs and attention just for the unprecedented forcefulness of the operation and the clear-headedness from the govt actors and the public display of the success. A ceasefire where anti-national forces dont take any steps to reconcile, in my opinion is utterly useless. Re-grouping under a ceasefire is classic militant tactic, which eventually ends in bloodshed. All the peace and quiet in the past years were abused by the ultras and it directly led to this escalation. In the future, when there is a ceasefire, we will hopefully have ultras with the sense to use the time of peace for something good.
JM2C

JE Menon
Forum Moderator
Posts: 7052
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Joint Army/IAF Anti-Terrorist Cross Border Op into Myanm

Postby JE Menon » 10 Jun 2015 16:52

>>The point is that this is filmy dialogue,

OK, so it’s a matter of taste then… Politician that he his, he seems to have judged his audience well. Good for him.

>>there is no serious implications for the likelihood of overt cross-border pursuits into Pakistan -- in my opinion and that of pretty much every observer I follow.

Change that country into Myanmar, and that would have been the opinion of pretty much every observer I follow too. Day before yesterday. Times change.

>> jingos here (several of whom embrace the term, so not sure what you're objecting to) seem to be taking his words to heart.

Not all, and there are many who object to such labelling just as one might if one member labels forum members as “sickularist” or some such.

>>Which is mistaken IMO - and obviously that's my opinion, your touchy references to a "special species of observer" nothwithstanding.

Read again exactly what I wrote. It was a question.

>>The fact is that there is a political and military background to this action, not least of which is a 2010 agreement between India and Myanmar to facilitate crossborder strikes by Indian forces over and above previous joint military operations (as occurred in 2006).

Has anybody said there wasn’t? Rathore himself said there’s strong cooperation and coordination with Myanmar and so did Maj. Gen. Ranbir Singh

>>These facts complicate the current government's preferred narrative (which more generally is to claim take credit for many things done by others - more so than any of its predecessors), but they cannot be wished away.

Why would they complicate the government’s posture, after all it ordered the actual operation? “Preferred narrative"? ‘Take credit for many things done by others”? These are your political views, which is fine, but carry it to some other relevant thread where it can be responded to appropriately. Not on this one.

Amitabh
BRFite
Posts: 270
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Joint Army/IAF Anti-Terrorist Cross Border Op into Myanm

Postby Amitabh » 10 Jun 2015 16:58

^^RE:Sudhan

I agree with you that this is an example of a forceful Indian response, and clearly was directed from the top. So different it seems prima facie from previous operations. Now there have been crossborder ops across the LoC, in Thailand, Bangladesh and Nepal to apprehend various militant leaders, usually in cooperation with the host country (except SF crossing LoC obviously).

What is different in this case is that possibly Myanmar's permission was not taken (as required by the Dec 2010 agreement). If Myanmar feathers can be unruffled as you said no harm no foul, but Col. Rathore's implied threat to Myanmar on NDTV (possibly an error since he seemed to be groping for words) might annoy people there. Now if you think that acting tough against Myanmar (if that is what is happening -- we need further clarity) shows ruthlessness then (1) we are a schoolyard bully and (2) Myanmar is more than capable of playing us off against China and going slow against our enemies. But we don't know if they are angry or not.

As for ops against Pak, you know that covert ops have happened earlier and probably on a larger scale than is let on because the Paks are always bitching and moaning about it. Now if covert ops continue or increase under Doval/Modi then we can't really comment intelligently since we have no baseline to compare it to, it being covert and all. But overt (or semi-covert) ops against Pakistan would be a clear change in policy, and my view unlikely because the consequences would be much more severe. Of course Modi could calculate that he wants to do something but then he has to calculate whether or not he is playing into Al Qaeda/LeT/Army. That's another debate but I think we can agree that the calculus is much more complicated than "56 inch chest" rhetoric would suggest.

SwamyG
BRF Oldie
Posts: 16148
Joined: 11 Apr 2007 09:22

Re: Joint Army/IAF Anti-Terrorist Cross Border Op into Myanm

Postby SwamyG » 10 Jun 2015 17:13


nash
BRFite
Posts: 890
Joined: 08 Aug 2008 16:48

Re: Joint Army/IAF Anti-Terrorist Cross Border Op into Myanm

Postby nash » 10 Jun 2015 17:14

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 615318.cms

There was option of a total air-strike using Sukhoi and MIG-29 fighter planes but the same was not done fearing collateral damage.

Government sources said they had expected casualty levels to be higher than the 38 at present and do not rule out the insurgents to have been alert and slipped out of the camps as the news of the visit of the Army Chief to Manipur may have leaked out and given an indicator to insurgents that some action was impending.

The government says 38 insurgents have been killed -- 15 in the camp attacked from the Nagaland side and at least 23 insurgents died in the attack on another camp from the Manipur side. Seven insurgents are said to be critically injured



UlanBatori
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14045
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Joint Army/IAF Anti-Terrorist Cross Border Op into Myanm

Postby UlanBatori » 10 Jun 2015 17:16

This one gets eyeballs and attention just for the unprecedented forcefulness of the operation and the clear-headedness from the govt actors and the public display of the success.


Also, 4 me, the display of ruthless efficiency. I don't think there was any time to go in after first removing slippers and doing greetings and then asking politely if the terrorists would please come to polis instashun. The op went ahead, as in **"completely wiped out two camps"**. And the govt announced that, no hesitation about the screams of "encounter killings" etc. That is the chilling part, to those who would wage war against India. If the IA has the clearance to do this even outside India, I think the message should be fairly clear to the Naxals and SIMI/ Eye-Muj types inside.

From above:
Seven insurgents are said to be critically injured

IOW, brought back to **care and treatment*** but in no condition to be interviewed by the media, and unlikely to be in such a condition, ever.

That is FAR more chilling than the "50 killed" part. :eek: :((

rsingh
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3439
Joined: 19 Jan 2005 01:05
Location: Pindi
Contact:

Re: Joint Army/IAF Anti-Terrorist Cross Border Op into Myanm

Postby rsingh » 10 Jun 2015 17:25

late for the party. Way to go IA. Gone to the first page.........have to enjoy every minute detail.

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Joint Army/IAF Anti-Terrorist Cross Border Op into Myanm

Postby Singha » 10 Jun 2015 17:33

A naxal leader with a 10lakh bounty on his head was KIA this week..with a few of his band.
He had cut open the stomach of a dead crpf jawan and put explosives inside which did not go off fortunately

JE Menon
Forum Moderator
Posts: 7052
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Joint Army/IAF Anti-Terrorist Cross Border Op into Myanm

Postby JE Menon » 10 Jun 2015 17:39

UB,

There is also the issue of pre-emption. Maj. Gen. Ranbir Singh was clear that the action was taken to prevent planned strikes by the terrorists. This is a whole new ball game. Never has this been done and declared in the past, notwithstanding the "we have done this before" special pleading. Certain critical precedents have been set: (1) public declaration of a unilateral military operation in another country, in the sense that the friendly country in question was informed only after the operation had commenced; and (2) the articulation of a pre-emption motive by the military establishment; and (3) the lack of any direct press release or statement 24 hours after the operation either of the ministries of defence, or foreign affairs.

Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 19840
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: Joint Army/IAF Anti-Terrorist Cross Border Op into Myanm

Postby Karan M » 10 Jun 2015 17:47

Singha wrote:A naxal leader with a 10lakh bounty on his head was KIA this week..with a few of his band.
He had cut open the stomach of a dead crpf jawan and put explosives inside which did not go off fortunately


Link?

Sid
BRFite
Posts: 1654
Joined: 19 Mar 2006 13:26

Re: Joint Army/IAF Anti-Terrorist Cross Border Op into Myanm

Postby Sid » 10 Jun 2015 17:47

Singha wrote:the disaster which was india's past policy wrt nagaland is seen in this photo...KSCN(K) cadres in their camp 13 km from dimapur bearing all weapons, celebrating the naga republic day in 2010! "ceasefire" does not mean you let the bandits run the place with all their weapons!
http://e-pao.net/GP.asp?src=14..220310.mar10
and their boss in myanmar
https://zhonah.files.wordpress.com/2012 ... aplang.jpg


Singha, these north east areas are self administered and autonomous. They have been like this for centuries. Think of it as "Texas" and consider Nagaland as extreme version of it.

My old man commanded AR unit in Nagaland, during late 80s. Insurgency during that time was worse then what you can ever imagine in J&K. And they are much fierce and ruthless fighters then hardcore bunnies who fight for promised 72.

From what I know you cannot force them to integrate in normal society. Until we really invest in infrastructure and economy there. Infrastructure there is really weak.

They are not connected to India, its that plain and simple.

manjgu
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2487
Joined: 11 Aug 2006 10:33

Re: Joint Army/IAF Anti-Terrorist Cross Border Op into Myanm

Postby manjgu » 10 Jun 2015 18:17

i quite agree with Sid...NE has been neglected and made feel not part of india... though not an excuse for insurgency. India must invest heavily in NE in terms of development etc. the people need to have economic ties, educational ties, emotional ties with indian state... we mock NE people in india..as chinkis and expect them to feel indian?

Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 19840
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: Joint Army/IAF Anti-Terrorist Cross Border Op into Myanm

Postby Karan M » 10 Jun 2015 18:41

Gaurav Sawant

Spl significance of Maj Gen Ranbir Singh, ADGMO giving details of Myanmar Ops. He is sr most serving Dogra regt officer.

15 NSCN (K) chaps killed (weapons recovered) in trans-border hot pursuit by commandos of 21 Para Special Forces in 2 quick surgical strikes

Top Int sources: mixed camp of Manipul PLA & KYKL hit. 20+ killed, 30+ injured. Weapons+documents recovered. 1 SS major killed so far

deejay
Forum Moderator
Posts: 4008
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Joint Army/IAF Anti-Terrorist Cross Border Op into Myanm

Postby deejay » 10 Jun 2015 18:59

Amitabh wrote:...
Yes Singha, ceasefire also means lowest levels of violence and killings in recent years: Insurgency-related killings 1992-2015 (SATP)

(What a disaster for people who enjoy conflict).


Amitabh, people who enjoyed conflict were the terrorist. Neither this Govt nor Indian Army went breaking ceasefire. It was broken and there were 20 bodies to show. What happened yesterday is Indian retaliation which was publicly accepted. No hiding behind anonymity. Nor did anyone on this forum or a 'jingo' advertise a unilateral preemptive strike without cause.

Peace at the cost of Indian Soldiers death is a convenient pacifist approach. Self Defence and avenging our own is not "love of conflict". It is however, an expression of confidence to stand up for what we are and who we are. India in its entirety is ours and that is not negotiable with a sword or without it.

Pranay
BRFite
Posts: 1458
Joined: 06 Feb 2003 12:31
Location: USA

Re: Joint Army/IAF Anti-Terrorist Cross Border Op into Myanm

Postby Pranay » 10 Jun 2015 19:07

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-33074776

Military officials said army commandos were involved in at least two attacks - one on a Naga rebel base at Noklak in India's Nagaland state, and the other at Chassad in India's Manipur state.

Intelligence officials say a third rebel base jointly run by the Naga and Manipuri rebels at Onzia inside Myanmar was also targeted.

"Our soldiers crossed back without any casualties," claimed Maj-Gen Singh.


Myanmar's forces have also occasionally crossed into Mizoram and Manipur states in India chasing their own ethnic Chin and Arakanese rebels. India has looked the other way when that happened.

"Now it seems that Myanmar will do the same," said retired military official Gaganjit Singh, who commanded an army division in north-east India at the peak of the ethnic insurgency in the region.

'We have good military-to-military co-operation with Myanmar and we both understand each other's compulsions. They have bigger insurgencies to fight, we have our own north-eastern rebels to tackle."


"India has the capability for surgical strikes across our borders. The political will was missing so far," said Gaganjit Singh.

"That may not be the case any more."
Last edited by Pranay on 10 Jun 2015 19:11, edited 2 times in total.

shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34982
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: Joint Army/IAF Anti-Terrorist Cross Border Op into Myanm

Postby shiv » 10 Jun 2015 19:08

SwamyG wrote:Chin denies link with militants
.http://m.hindustantimes.com/world-news/ ... 57087.aspx

I agree. Those terrorists are now dead and the camps eliminated. how can China have a link to what does not exist any more.

Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 19840
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: Joint Army/IAF Anti-Terrorist Cross Border Op into Myanm

Postby Karan M » 10 Jun 2015 19:08

India today article on the NE and the farcical cease fire proudly trotted out as an example of "conflict management", guys with weapons going around extorting away and preparing for conflict while "talks will be held one day" :lol:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-EnnPvq-2_h8/V ... East-1.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-G9aGfT23vXY/V ... East-2.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-TvYZqWc1fn8/V ... East-3.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-OOhRJ4-QVSg/V ... East-4.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-AjkaW7UcR3w/V ... East-5.jpg

All this development stuff is a misnomer.. the crooks and thugs have to be taken out first otherwise they'll eat off the cream and nothing will reach the public.

Khaplang's head has to be brought forth on a platter.
Last edited by Karan M on 10 Jun 2015 19:19, edited 1 time in total.

SanjayC
BRFite
Posts: 1557
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Joint Army/IAF Anti-Terrorist Cross Border Op into Myanm

Postby SanjayC » 10 Jun 2015 19:09

manjgu wrote:i quite agree with Sid...NE has been neglected and made feel not part of india... though not an excuse for insurgency. India must invest heavily in NE in terms of development etc. the people need to have economic ties, educational ties, emotional ties with indian state... we mock NE people in india..as *deleted* and expect them to feel indian?


And North Easterns have been calling Indians "dogs" and "outsiders" for decades. They are not as lily white as we assume them to be. While the rest of the Indians may be guilty of benign neglect or ignorance (most won't be able to point out Tripura on the map), the North Easterners have hatred due to religious bigotry (xianity) or just because Indians look different to them. They are like Kashmiris - they will keep demanding more and more and keep hating you more and more, while creating a guilt complex in you about their "mistreatment" even as they purge the land of anyone who doesn't look like them.

arshyam
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3940
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Joint Army/IAF Anti-Terrorist Cross Border Op into Myanm

Postby arshyam » 10 Jun 2015 19:12

SwamyG wrote:Chin denies link with militants
.http://m.hindustantimes.com/world-news/ ... 57087.aspx

Interesting that they deny without any formal accusation. Guilty conscience much?

I thought the Chinese were more sophisticated than this, but now they are at the Pakis' level onlee...

Speaking of Pakis, Maroof Raza on TimesNow was saying "mark my words, the Pakistanis will soon issue a few threatening statements on India trying to do the same on the western border" or some such. Full browning onlee, waiting for it to start. Fun times.
Last edited by arshyam on 10 Jun 2015 19:14, edited 1 time in total.

Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 19840
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: Joint Army/IAF Anti-Terrorist Cross Border Op into Myanm

Postby Karan M » 10 Jun 2015 19:12

At least two of these guys should be knocked off.

Paresh Baruah
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-fsScX88T7io/V ... 529%2B.jpg
ULFA guns
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-DYLVTndpBW4/V ... 2BCamp.jpg

Little tinpot Mao aka SS Khaplang - current slimeball behind the NSCN (K)
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-l8picC-PNfM/V ... and%2B.jpg

Bodo head
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-vTXeaxYZhfA/V ... 0/NDFB.jpg

Typical insurgent camp in Nagaland
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-wzsuB4-6xuM/V ... land-2.jpg

RoyG
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5180
Joined: 10 Aug 2009 05:10

Re: Joint Army/IAF Anti-Terrorist Cross Border Op into Myanm

Postby RoyG » 10 Jun 2015 19:14

Which is why I've been saying that in the long run the only effective solution is opening up the region and bringing them back into the dharmic fold (easier said than done).

Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 19840
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: Joint Army/IAF Anti-Terrorist Cross Border Op into Myanm

Postby Karan M » 10 Jun 2015 19:15

High time the Special Forces were given a full free hand vs NSCN-K. An example has to be made of them. This farcical peace talks/ceasefire was a scam designed to make the UPA look good while the opponents like the NDFB and NSCN K became stronger, created their mini empires, extorting tax, rearming and running their mini countries.
They wont allow development in any form or fashion unless they get their cut.

Viv S
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5303
Joined: 03 Jan 2010 00:46

Re: Joint Army/IAF Anti-Terrorist Cross Border Op into Myanm

Postby Viv S » 10 Jun 2015 19:15

SanjayC wrote:While the rest of the Indians may be guilty of benign neglect or ignorance (most won't be able to point out Tripura on the map), the North Easterners have hatred due to religious bigotry (xianity) or just because Indians look different to them. They are like Kashmiris - they will keep demanding more and more and keep hating you more and more, while creating a guilt complex in you about their "mistreatment" even as they purge the land of anyone who doesn't look like them.


Well if we're in agreement that folks from the North East aren't Indians, lets just give them total autonomy if not independence and have it done with.

Picklu
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2110
Joined: 25 Feb 2004 12:31

Re: Joint Army/IAF Anti-Terrorist Cross Border Op into Myanm

Postby Picklu » 10 Jun 2015 19:20

After Pappu's return & new found energy, lot of hidden 'assets' activated in the media - both mainstream and social ... including a certain brf poster after long sleep it seems.

A lot of thing has happened before - covert SF operation in enemy country included.

But justice has to be "seen" by "everyone" and not just "who need to know". THAT is a first this time.

Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 19840
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: Joint Army/IAF Anti-Terrorist Cross Border Op into Myanm

Postby Karan M » 10 Jun 2015 19:21

arshyam wrote:
SwamyG wrote:Chin denies link with militants
.http://m.hindustantimes.com/world-news/ ... 57087.aspx

Interesting that they deny without any formal accusation. Guilty conscience much?

I thought the Chinese were more sophisticated than this, but now they are at the Pakis' level onlee...

Speaking of Pakis, Maroof Raza on TimesNow was saying "mark my words, the Pakistanis will soon issue a few threatening statements on India trying to do the same on the western border" or some such. Full browning onlee, waiting for it to start. Fun times.


What will Pakistanis try to do what they are not already trying?
Difference is Pak born and Pak lover MMS is no longer in charge, so they can't kill Indians with the impunity they thought they deserved.

Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 19840
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: Joint Army/IAF Anti-Terrorist Cross Border Op into Myanm

Postby Karan M » 10 Jun 2015 19:24

Picklu wrote:After Pappu's return & new found energy, lot of hidden 'assets' activated in the media - both mainstream and social ... including a certain brf poster after long sleep it seems.

A lot of thing has happened before - covert SF operation in enemy country included.

But justice has to be "seen" by "everyone" and not just "who need to know". THAT is a first this time.



LOL true Picklu ji, a lot of "mirchi lagi" amongst these quarters apparently.

In shri Parrikars words "Andhra wali mirchi". :rotfl:


Return to “Trash Can Archive”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 23 guests