Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

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srin
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Re: Joint Army/IAF Anti-Terrorist Cross Border Op into Myanm

Postby srin » 10 Jun 2015 22:48

The key to an op like this is the element of surprise. Surprise related to the intent, time and means of attack.

One big concern for me for a repeat op like this is possibility of a deliberate trap. It is important for the political authority to listen to the professional advise and intelligence and use other "safer" tactics if it is considered risky, like Sukhois dropping LGBs on their heads or a co-ordinated artillery / MLRS salvo.

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Re: Joint Army/IAF Anti-Terrorist Cross Border Op into Myanm

Postby SwamyG » 10 Jun 2015 22:53

Singha wrote:>> Intelligence officials said a third rebel base jointly run by the Naga and Manipuri rebels

manipur has two types of rebels - one is allied to the nagas (maybe ethic naga or something close)...the greater nagalim demand encompasses some districts of manipur also + parts of myanmar , assam and arunachal.

So is it all the British drawing lines on the sands, hills and water ways? Looks like people have been split from their kith and kin by country borders and then state boundaries. Blood is thicker than artificial boundaries.

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Re: Joint Army/IAF Anti-Terrorist Cross Border Op into Myanm

Postby tsarkar » 10 Jun 2015 23:03

Here is Operation Khukri in General Jetley's own words http://www.usiofindia.org/Article/Print ... 68&ano=388

We've good generals and good soldiers. Only political will is required

http://vayu-sena.tripod.com/pix/unamsil11.jpg [quote]Defence Minister George Fernandes congratulating Colonel Khushal Thakur at Hastings, Sierra Leone on July 20, 2000. [/quote]

Our then Defence Minister George Fernandes travelled all the way to remote Sierra Leone to congratulate the troops. That is leadership, unlike M K Anthony's.

Anyone remember him sending bureaucrats sitting over files for snowmobiles in Siachen to actually visit Siachen.

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Re: Joint Army/IAF Anti-Terrorist Cross Border Op into Myanm

Postby Amitabh » 10 Jun 2015 23:12

Deleted
Last edited by Suraj on 11 Jun 2015 00:25, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: 1 week ban for trolling.

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Re: Joint Army/IAF Anti-Terrorist Cross Border Op into Myanm

Postby RamaY » 10 Jun 2015 23:12

^^^

from the outlook article Pranay posted

However, the Army Chief expressed his inability to carry out the strike at such a short notice.


I am glad things went as planned at the end. But now that we are in a new world, Indian Armed forces (all three branches) must identify ways to execute even bigger operations in even shorter notice.

We live in a dangerous neighborhood with lot of challenges that need immediate action. The current geopolitical environment also demands that we are ever vigilant of games played by the unmentionable powers.

I am sure this can be done. After all IA came up with CSD, with much larger scope.

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Re: Joint Army/IAF Anti-Terrorist Cross Border Op into Myanm

Postby Amitabh » 10 Jun 2015 23:16

ramana wrote:Even Bharati Jain of TOIlet says its shift in GOI policy.
Also gives reasons as two-fold:

- lift morale of troops after the Manipur ambush
- Send message for perpetrators where ever they are.


Judging by the hyper reaction from TSP the message was received in the correct quarters.


--Aside:

Rathore is doing the role LKA did in 1998 after the POKII tests.

Lets see if TSP takes the bait or lies low.


Congress is cautioning Govt. Passing inaction as wise counsel!!!

TOI can write what it wants (and naturally govt PR machinery will spin to journos) but if they took Myanmar's permission before attacking then there is no change in policy.

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Re: Joint Army/IAF Anti-Terrorist Cross Border Op into Myanm

Postby pankajs » 10 Jun 2015 23:25

Image

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Re: Joint Army/IAF Anti-Terrorist Cross Border Op into Myanm

Postby johneeG » 10 Jun 2015 23:26

Amitabh wrote:
ramana wrote:Amitabh, Don't spoil the occasion by bringing inconsequential actions by UPA.
Its not the same thing.

This is a landmark event.


Its akin to the Pravin Swami article about role of MEA in this action.

The risks and shooting was taken by the Army and IAF.
And this fool gives MEA credit.

When Myanmar already had a treaty with India to prevent cross border terrorists and all they needed was being informed where does MEA become the prime focus except in a fevered mind?

Ramana, Swami clearly stated that the MEA "helped" the armed forces, so I did not read his article as taking credit away from the forces.

But he does reveal that Myanmar gave permission for the operation, which then brings into question the issue of how landmark the operation really is, and whether -- PR spin aside -- it actually marks a new doctrine. In fact it seems to be entirely consistent with the 2010 agreement between India and Myanmar. There is no doubt that this was a bold decision, but it doesn't seem to be a new doctrine if Myanmar permission was secured first.

In fact Myanmar recently carried out an air strike in Chinese territory. I don't watch Myanmarese social media, but I doubt if they triumphantly claimed that Myanmar was sending a tough message to its northern neighbour.

Anyway, no point belabouring this: we will find out at some point whether Modi/Doval are planning raids into PoK, Pindi or Ar Raqqah.


You are actually incriminating the kongis by exposing their inefficiency.

Ok, lets look at the whole picture:
- 2010 agreement with Myanmar allows Bhaarath to cross the border and clean up the north-east insurgents.
- Myanmar itself seems to be quite open to this kind of clean up and pretty co-operative.
- IA and IAF seem to be quite capable of such clean up.
- Bhaarath seems to have pretty good Intel on the hideouts of these insurgents.
- this whole operation was planned in just 5 days.
- Everyone has been hailing this as unprecedented. The insurgents were taken by surprise because they were not expecting such retaliation from IA.
- UPA had 4 yrs from 2010 to 2014 to clear up these insurgents. Why didn't they do it? How many such operations were carried out by UPA?
- Actually, congis had 60 yrs to stabilize north-east using force or peace or money or power whatever else they thought fit. But they didn't do it. If Modi gets 10 yrs, then there won't be any insurgency in north-east. Modi has been on charm offensive in north-east but he has also shown that insurgency won't be tolerated. Its a policy of 'Parithranaya saadhunaam vinashaya cha dhushkrutham'.

It seems to me that the whole periphery has been kept deliberately destabilized by kongis. I don't know why. Maybe they just hate the peripheries...

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Re: Joint Army/IAF Anti-Terrorist Cross Border Op into Myanm

Postby IndraD » 10 Jun 2015 23:57

Just a query, now the militants know paratroopers are supported by helicopters, can they get some sort of missile next time to neutralize this ? Will this modus operandi work next time?

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Re: Joint Army/IAF Anti-Terrorist Cross Border Op into Myanm

Postby ramana » 11 Jun 2015 00:01

IndraD, next time it could very well be a different tactic.
Rejoice at what was done instead of fretting.

ramana

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Re: Joint Army/IAF Anti-Terrorist Cross Border Op into Myanm

Postby IndraD » 11 Jun 2015 00:17

That pic of special forces seems to be genuine, ToI has published same stating it has been released by MoD, but channels have been clever to blur the faces.

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Re: Joint Army/IAF Anti-Terrorist Cross Border Op into Myanm

Postby member_23360 » 11 Jun 2015 00:19

Amitabh wrote:
ramana wrote:Even Bharati Jain of TOIlet says its shift in GOI policy.
Also gives reasons as two-fold:

- lift morale of troops after the Manipur ambush
- Send message for perpetrators where ever they are.


Judging by the hyper reaction from TSP the message was received in the correct quarters.


--Aside:

Rathore is doing the role LKA did in 1998 after the POKII tests.

Lets see if TSP takes the bait or lies low.


Congress is cautioning Govt. Passing inaction as wise counsel!!!

TOI can write what it wants (and naturally govt PR machinery will spin to journos) but if they took Myanmar's permission before attacking then there is no change in policy.


Hey, whats up?

why this constant chanting of "no change in policy", are you trying to say that credit for this operation should go to UPA govt.?

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Re: Joint Army/IAF Anti-Terrorist Cross Border Op into Myanm

Postby ShauryaT » 11 Jun 2015 00:27

Amitabh wrote:TOI can write what it wants (and naturally govt PR machinery will spin to journos) but if they took Myanmar's permission before attacking then there is no change in policy.
Amitabh: You are technically correct. This is not a change in policy, it is a change in how that policy is acted upon with speed and efficiency.

Can you cite an instance in the past, where a cross border retaliatory action was executed within days of an incident? Credit should be given, where it is due. Let us not split hair. Agree with you what it means for other fronts is not clear and but even that unclear message is better than a clear no response message that GoI has been known for and I am implicating multiple governments here including my favorite the ABV led NDA I.

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Re: Joint Army/IAF Anti-Terrorist Cross Border Op into Myanm

Postby Suraj » 11 Jun 2015 00:27

JE Menon wrote:
ramana wrote:Surya, I request you to put together an article on this operation in your inimitable style.
Thanks in advance,
ramana

Seconded.
No pressure :mrgreen:

Absolutely no pressure at all. Could you send us a draft by month end ? :)

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Re: Joint Army/IAF Anti-Terrorist Cross Border Op into Myanm

Postby vinod » 11 Jun 2015 01:27

Ajit Doval travelling to Burma

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Re: Joint Army/IAF Anti-Terrorist Cross Border Op into Myanm

Postby Prem » 11 Jun 2015 01:47

Khuusar Puussar

Myra MacDonald ‏@myraemacdonald 3m3 minutes ago
Upping the rhetoric. #Pakistan is not Myanmar, will respond to foreign aggression, minister tells #India http://www.dawn.com/news/1187363

Nasim Zehra ‏@NasimZehra 1m1 minute ago
And btw are you missing the Indian rhetoric @myraemacdonald ?!

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Re: Joint Army/IAF Anti-Terrorist Cross Border Op into Myanm

Postby SwamyG » 11 Jun 2015 02:01

I do not think this was posted here ....I apologize if I missed it

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 617871.cms

The surgical strike inside Myanmar was carried out by a crack team of about 70 commandos of the Indian Army who finished the operation within 40 minutes, leaving 38 Naga insurgents dead and seven injured yesterday.

The decision of "hot pursuit" was taken hours after the Naga militants killed 18 soldiers in an ambush in Chandel area of Manipur on June 4 and clearance was obtained from Prime Minister Narendra Modi on the night of June 7, soon after his return from Bangladesh, said sources sources privy to the details.

The commandos of 21 Para, equipped with assault rifles, rocket launchers, grenades and night vision goggles, were airdropped at around 3 AM yesterday from Dhruv helicopters, just inside the Indian territory near the border with Myanmar, security sources said.

Once on the ground, the contingent of the special forces split into two groups and headed for two camps being run by NSCN(K) and KYKL, who are believed to be responsible for the deadly ambush on June 4, they said.

The teams trekked through the thick jungles for at least five kilometers before they reached the training camps.

"Each of the two teams were further divided into two sub-groups. While one was responsible for the direct assault, the second formed an outer ring to prevent any of insurgents from running and escaping," the sources said.

The actual operation (hitting the camp and destroying it) took about 40 minutes. Not only did the commandos kill those present at the camps in gun fight, during which rocket launchers were also used, one of the camp was also set afire.

Sources, qouting ground reports, said 38 militants were killed and seven others were injured in the strike.

Thermal imagery was also used to track the operation about which Myanmarese authorities were kept in the loop, they said.

Mi-17 helicopters of the Indian Air Force were put on standby, ready to be pressed into service to evacuate the commandos in case anything went wrong.

"The operation was carried out based on specific and very accurate intelligence" and the operation was overseen by General Officer Commanding (GoC) of the Dimapur-based 3 Corps Lt Gen Bipin Rawat, the sources said.


read more online....

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Re: Joint Army/IAF Anti-Terrorist Cross Border Op into Myanm

Postby Suraj » 11 Jun 2015 02:07

IndraD wrote:Just a query, now the militants know paratroopers are supported by helicopters, can they get some sort of missile next time to neutralize this ? Will this modus operandi work next time?

Our intelligence knew precisely where they were, how many there were, what they had, and more. Therefore they used what was best suited based on what was known. Next time, they'll do the same according to intelligence available. After pages of references about everyone down from the NSA plotting this operation in detail, you ask a question like that ?

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Re: Joint Army/IAF Anti-Terrorist Cross Border Op into Myanm

Postby ramana » 11 Jun 2015 02:19

Suraj, He will need more time. Needs more details to come out and to knit them together.

BTW his Chushul article was loved by one of the participants.

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Re: Joint Army/IAF Anti-Terrorist Cross Border Op into Myanm

Postby Karan M » 11 Jun 2015 02:19

Sid wrote:
Karan M wrote:Crooks and warlords like Khaplang take advantage of absence of the state. They then make themselves indispensable.


Karan, I will only quote one line from your above argument and I agree with it. To fill that void something needs to be done.


We don't disagree on the essentials. My point is that worldwide, in COIN, countries which choose the expedient path of paying off warlords and then subverting their own system to "buy" peace end up losing the peace benefit as the warlords eat up all the aid meant for the common public and also end up being even more serious threats versus the state. So, to properly develop any state you need the warlords out. Whether it is Sadhu Yadavs with kattas or Khaplangs with Ak-47s, these crooks will use every bit to expand their writ. State has to crush them.

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Re: Joint Army/IAF Anti-Terrorist Cross Border Op into Myanm

Postby IndraD » 11 Jun 2015 02:28

http://www.rediff.com/news/special/defe ... 150610.htm

The counter-insurgency operation on the Indo-Myanmar border was being planned for the last three months, much before the June 4 ambush by Naga insurgents that killed 18 Indian soldiers, and the decision to go ahead with the daring attack was not easy one for New Delhi

National Security Advisor A K Doval supervised the planning and execution of the operation with aplomb, says the source. The positive side to the operation was that India and Mynamar had an agreement in place to co-operate in border areas where the insurgents are in hiding

The Research and Analysis Wing had all the details and data ready since many months about the activities of the insurgent groups in the area which is called ‘Greater Nagaland’ by the militants. The local insurgent groups want a ‘Greater Nagaland’ carved out of the Naga-dominated areas in the neighbouring states within India and contiguous areas in Myanmar.

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Re: Joint Army/IAF Anti-Terrorist Cross Border Op into Myanm

Postby Gus » 11 Jun 2015 03:32

i think they are putting out multiple stories to keep it a bit fuzzy..

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Re: Joint Army/IAF Anti-Terrorist Cross Border Op into Myanm

Postby Anujan » 11 Jun 2015 03:47

Funny thing is that Pakistan had started frothing in their mouth on how upset they were with Myanmar for oppressing the Rohingyas. Hafiz Saeed has started collecting donations and Nawaz has promised $5 million. And now this happened. They then started "we are with Myanmar against Indian aggression .... Oh sh1t wait ... We are not with Myanmar ... We are not with India either ... We are with ... Errr"

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Re: Joint Army/IAF Anti-Terrorist Cross Border Op into Myanm

Postby SwamyG » 11 Jun 2015 03:55

Gus wrote:i think they are putting out multiple stories to keep it a bit fuzzy..

Not only that, Sarkar is designating one to two people to talk about this and throw darts. This time Colonel Rathore is that person. For different situations different people open their mouth and flush out the targeted individuals and groups out. Be it Nithyananda or Giriraj or Smrit different indivudals are used for specific reasons. Meanwhile Modi and Doval continue to do the necessary things.

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Re: Joint Army/IAF Anti-Terrorist Cross Border Op into Myanm

Postby KarthikSan » 11 Jun 2015 04:08

Irrespective of landmark, policy or no policy, permission from Myanmar, hot pursuit agreement etc. this sends out a strong message. Like the Khans say " You can run but you can't hide!!! You f**k with us we bring shakina :-)" . To the poor sepoy on the ground who has been frustrated by the statement issuers earlier this tells that sarkar is 400% behind you and will not simply stand by watching your brothers die. End of the day that is all that matters.

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Re: Joint Army/IAF Anti-Terrorist Cross Border Op into Myanm

Postby SwamyG » 11 Jun 2015 04:12

This is 'one stone many abduls' type of action.

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Re: Joint Army/IAF Anti-Terrorist Cross Border Op into Myanm

Postby IndraD » 11 Jun 2015 04:29

After Indian army strike, China denies any link with NE insurgency

http://www.hindustantimes.com/world-new ... 57087.aspx

Over 100 militants wiped out http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/art ... 613297.cms

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Re: Joint Army/IAF Anti-Terrorist Cross Border Op into Myanm

Postby shiv » 11 Jun 2015 05:45

Jhujar wrote:Khuusar Puussar

Myra MacDonald ‏@myraemacdonald 3m3 minutes ago
Upping the rhetoric. #Pakistan is not Myanmar, will respond to foreign aggression, minister tells #India http://www.dawn.com/news/1187363

Nasim Zehra ‏@NasimZehra 1m1 minute ago
And btw are you missing the Indian rhetoric @myraemacdonald ?!

Just a minor, not very important point here but it tickles me..

By crossing into Myanmar for and anti-terror raid and then obliquely warning Pakistan, India has actually put Pakistan in a chaddi-knotting quandary. First Pakistan is forced to respond because their limp-tool ego has been pricked and they all jump up and down and say "Pakistan is not Myanmar"

But for this threat to play out Pakistan has to launch a raid into India first and then India has to respond. This creates the following dynamic:

Pakistan launches an NSCN type raid into India. India outraged. This can have one of two outcomes

1. India raids Pakistani camp forcing Pakistan to escalate and retaliate
2. India does not retaliate. But if India does not retaliate Pakistanis still cannot gloat that "Pakistan is not Myanmar" without admitting that the raid came from Pakistan. They have to continue plausible deniability. If the gloat - they have to admit the raid. if they don't gloat they cannot make echandee capital from the raid.

Of course we have to wait for Pakistan's next atrocity to see the resolve of our own government.

Pakis are butt-hurt enough to want to try and prove that they are erect, not limp, and may actually try something simply to show that India cannot retaliate and Pakistan is not Myanmar.

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Re: Joint Army/IAF Anti-Terrorist Cross Border Op into Myanm

Postby Anujan » 11 Jun 2015 05:49

Few points:

1. Attitude or no Attitude, NE folks are Indians. We must make sure that they feel Indian, feel included. It is better to fight insurgency when the local population is not with the insurgents. It is also better if grievances are identified and addressed in our framework of governance.

2. Messaging should have downplayed the raiding inside Myanmar part (the terrorists have already gotten the message that they arent safe there) and should have emphasized the professionally planned and executed operation more. IA official statement does a good job at this (talking about Army to Army cooperation etc etc). It is the media that has shouted itself hoarse. It is easier to fight insurgents if Myanmar army isnt shooting at us. Better to win them over with some nice diplomacy and aid. We want friendship with Myanmar, its the terrorists we want to kill.

3. Hopefully lessons (positive and negative) have been learned well and will applied the next time around.

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Re: Joint Army/IAF Anti-Terrorist Cross Border Op into Myanm

Postby Gagan » 11 Jun 2015 06:04

How many want to bet, that once there is an operation into La La land to our west, that the congis will open up claiming the army did similar minor ops during their time as well hain ji?

More and more, Congress's mistakes at not keeping the military option open is making them look very lame. Bodes very badly for their future. - Sorry OT.

Pakistan was trying to create trouble using the Rohingyas. Mushy even met some of the NE terror leaders during his visit to Bangladesh during Khaleda Zia's tenure there. Badmash was going to give $5million !

I enjoy the fact that every harrumph from Dilli sends the Paksitani establishment in a tizzy, their media into a prolonged self incriminating rona dhona. The pressure in that kettle is getting to unbearable for the jihadi loving establishment to bear. They want to do something big, let some steam off, but are $hit scared of what'll happen afterwards with the current GOI's tevers

poor pakistanis.

Looks like the PLA advisors of the NSCIN were poorly cognizant of the politics of the current GOI. Surely many will end up in le education camps for this.

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Re: Joint Army/IAF Anti-Terrorist Cross Border Op into Myanm

Postby Anujan » 11 Jun 2015 06:11

Good article by Vikram Sood
http://thewire.in/2015/06/10/border-op- ... soft-talk/

It is natural for all Indians to feel thrilled at the valour and skill of our forces and show it. It is not so natural for a government to beat the drum in this fashion. The approach should have been that the counter-insurgency strike was a necessity and that necessity was fulfilled in the call of duty.

The other aspect to be remembered is that this might not be a one-off operation. There may have to be other similar operations. Not all operations are successful, or there are no last minute complications. There can be casualties or worse the operation can be a failure. We have to learn to live with this and take this in our stride. Presumably the authorities thought through all contingencies like evacuation of casualties or extension of the operation.

However, what we have not yet mastered is how much information to be released, if at all and at what time. Media management, especially during and after an operation of this kind is an important part of any counter-terror or counter-insurgency operation where the insurgent or the terrorist is better able to handle this. Governments are usually left doing damage control and usually it is rather clumsy. This has to change because counter-terrorism or counter insurgency are as much battles of the mind as the battles of the gun. The smart thing is to manage the media better with one’s own subtle psy-ops not just during a special operation but at all times.

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Re: Joint Army/IAF Anti-Terrorist Cross Border Op into Myanm

Postby Hari Seldon » 11 Jun 2015 06:16

Evidence some packee shalwars have changed color recently...

Image

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Re: Joint Army/IAF Anti-Terrorist Cross Border Op into Myanm

Postby KLNMurthy » 11 Jun 2015 06:19

Anujan wrote:Few points:

1. Attitude or no Attitude, NE folks are Indians. We must make sure that they feel Indian, feel included. It is better to fight insurgency when the local population is not with the insurgents. It is also better if grievances are identified and addressed in our framework of governance.

2. Messaging should have downplayed the raiding inside Myanmar part (the terrorists have already gotten the message that they arent safe there) and should have emphasized the professionally planned and executed operation more. IA official statement does a good job at this (talking about Army to Army cooperation etc etc). It is the media that has shouted itself hoarse. It is easier to fight insurgents if Myanmar army isnt shooting at us. Better to win them over with some nice diplomacy and aid. We want friendship with Myanmar, its the terrorists we want to kill.

3. Hopefully lessons (positive and negative) have been learned well and will applied the next time around.

+1
There was a lot of unseemly celebration at the fact of IA having crossed the border, supposedly. As if we pulled off an invasion. Pakis are spinning India's action in this way, there is no need for us to do this at all, it is not even true.

The fact is that we had cooperation from a friendly Myanmar government. Needlessly focusing on the crossing of the border just makes the Myanmarese feel disrespected.

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Re: Joint Army/IAF Anti-Terrorist Cross Border Op into Myanm

Postby sum » 11 Jun 2015 06:24

^^ Its ok sir....

Its just relieving of the pressure cooker situation which was created in last 10 years where everyone and their uncle called India impotent and even we Indians mocked on ourselves as a weak state. Atleast, this provided a much needed outlet for the amm aadmi to feel happy about his military and the country's capability atleast for a day and feel reassured that future wont be same as last 10 years.

Am sure that with future ops, such elation and jubilation wont be seen and will be seen as a routine event ( like how the PSLV launches are seen now)

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Re: Joint Army/IAF Anti-Terrorist Cross Border Op into Myanm

Postby member_22539 » 11 Jun 2015 06:25

Amitabh wrote:taking credit away from the forces.


Yep, you are just hellbent on taking credit away from some others.

Amitabh wrote:but it doesn't seem to be a new doctrine


Maybe, but the enforcement of that doctrine is CERTAINLY NEW.

Amitabh wrote:In fact Myanmar recently carried out an air strike in Chinese territory. I don't watch Myanmarese social media, but I doubt if they triumphantly claimed that Myanmar was sending a tough message to its northern neighbour.


That was exactly what was claimed and that was the reason for the air strike in the first place. Chinese are supporting ethnic Han rebels in Myanmar and the message is that this will not be tolerated by Myanmar.

Perhaps you need to pay attention to your propaganda to avoid such blunders.

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Re: Joint Army/IAF Anti-Terrorist Cross Border Op into Myanm

Postby RamaY » 11 Jun 2015 06:31

Wise words Anujanji & KLNM garu...

This operation has different types of audience groups; insurgents, pakis, world players & Indians. More than anyone the key audience at this point are Indians for they need to be made aware of their innate strengths and worth. Hence the message, IMHO.

The friendly neighbors know our position & know the game.

Indian Media is worst enemy of India, more harmful to Indian Interests than Pakistan. They will never let GoI to manage the message, no matter what.

We must never analyze GoI or India using MSM-glasses.

johneeG
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Re: Joint Army/IAF Anti-Terrorist Cross Border Op into Myanm

Postby johneeG » 11 Jun 2015 06:33

IndraD wrote:After Indian army strike, China denies any link with NE insurgency

http://www.hindustantimes.com/world-new ... 57087.aspx

Over 100 militants wiped out http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/art ... 613297.cms


That means Bhaarath now has some evidence to prove that China was sponsoring North-east insurgency. Maybe some documents or even some PLA guys were caught in this operation. Maybe that info will be released at some point soon. So, China is on pre-emptive strike to counter that evidence. This is definitely not how chinese behave. So, there is more to this than just chinese showing their hand foolishly.

shiv wrote:
Jhujar wrote:Khuusar Puussar

Myra MacDonald ‏@myraemacdonald 3m3 minutes ago
Upping the rhetoric. #Pakistan is not Myanmar, will respond to foreign aggression, minister tells #India http://www.dawn.com/news/1187363

Nasim Zehra ‏@NasimZehra 1m1 minute ago
And btw are you missing the Indian rhetoric @myraemacdonald ?!

Just a minor, not very important point here but it tickles me..

By crossing into Myanmar for and anti-terror raid and then obliquely warning Pakistan, India has actually put Pakistan in a chaddi-knotting quandary. First Pakistan is forced to respond because their limp-tool ego has been pricked and they all jump up and down and say "Pakistan is not Myanmar"

But for this threat to play out Pakistan has to launch a raid into India first and then India has to respond. This creates the following dynamic:

Pakistan launches an NSCN type raid into India. India outraged. This can have one of two outcomes

1. India raids Pakistani camp forcing Pakistan to escalate and retaliate
2. India does not retaliate. But if India does not retaliate Pakistanis still cannot gloat that "Pakistan is not Myanmar" without admitting that the raid came from Pakistan. They have to continue plausible deniability. If the gloat - they have to admit the raid. if they don't gloat they cannot make echandee capital from the raid.

Of course we have to wait for Pakistan's next atrocity to see the resolve of our own government.

Pakis are butt-hurt enough to want to try and prove that they are erect, not limp, and may actually try something simply to show that India cannot retaliate and Pakistan is not Myanmar.


Bhaarath has been accusing Pakistan of harbouring and sponsoring cross-border terrorism. Bhaarath has also declared that POK has many terror camps. This special forces operation in Myanmar opens up for similar operation in POK. And since POK is claimed by Bhaarath as integral part of Bhaarath, Pakistan can do zilch.

Please note that Doval has mentioned that POK is part of Bhaarath in recent times. Further, recently, Bhaarath objected to a farcical election in POK sponsored by Pakistan.

All this means that the next strike is in POK. Pakistanis know this pretty well. They are not fools though they pretend to be fools. But, the problem for the pakistanis is that they don't really have any way of countering this except to go for full-scale war and nuclear and missile attacks(assuming that Pakistanis actually have nuclear and missile weapons and capability to for full-scale war).

Anujan wrote:Good article by Vikram Sood
http://thewire.in/2015/06/10/border-op- ... soft-talk/

It is natural for all Indians to feel thrilled at the valour and skill of our forces and show it. It is not so natural for a government to beat the drum in this fashion. The approach should have been that the counter-insurgency strike was a necessity and that necessity was fulfilled in the call of duty.

The other aspect to be remembered is that this might not be a one-off operation. There may have to be other similar operations. Not all operations are successful, or there are no last minute complications. There can be casualties or worse the operation can be a failure. We have to learn to live with this and take this in our stride. Presumably the authorities thought through all contingencies like evacuation of casualties or extension of the operation.

However, what we have not yet mastered is how much information to be released, if at all and at what time. Media management, especially during and after an operation of this kind is an important part of any counter-terror or counter-insurgency operation where the insurgent or the terrorist is better able to handle this. Governments are usually left doing damage control and usually it is rather clumsy. This has to change because counter-terrorism or counter insurgency are as much battles of the mind as the battles of the gun. The smart thing is to manage the media better with one’s own subtle psy-ops not just during a special operation but at all times.


On the contrary, the message was well-planned and well-directed. The whole intention of this operation and message seems to be: don't mess with us and don't harbour terrorists against us.

The message is being made loud and clear repeatedly so that no doubts are left in anyone's mind. Combine this with recent pronunciations of defence minister. Why the need for such blatant message? Because the congis in last 60 yrs have convinced everyone that they can attack Bhaarath with impunity and get away without consequences. Now, Modi sarkaar is trying to change everyone's old habits. So, it requires repeated and clear messaging. Once the message is drilled in, then they will be more subtle and nudge and wink stuff will be put out.

Guddu
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Re: Joint Army/IAF Anti-Terrorist Cross Border Op into Myanm

Postby Guddu » 11 Jun 2015 06:35

In some of the twitter posts, eg 56" rocks, I have seen pictures of sri antonyji being lifted like an invalid...anyone knows what that is about ?.

niran
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Re: Joint Army/IAF Anti-Terrorist Cross Border Op into Myanm

Postby niran » 11 Jun 2015 06:36

Anujan wrote:Good article by Vikram Sood
http://thewire.in/2015/06/10/border-op- ... soft-talk/


to hide celebrations is slave mentality like shoo! let us not celebrate lest gora sahib is disturbed from his <fill in your act>
Sood janab is from the same Brit were best generation, time has changed Indians have every right to celebrate even mohalla kirkit match Indian ishtyle (with loud crackers Puja Havan Daan bhang drinking and dancing wagera)

niran
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Re: Joint Army/IAF Anti-Terrorist Cross Border Op into Myanm

Postby niran » 11 Jun 2015 06:37

Guddu wrote:In some of the twitter posts, eg 56" rocks, I have seen pictures of sri antonyji being lifted like an invalid...anyone knows what that is about ?.

he fainted during a ceremony


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